The Wellness Mama Podcasthttps://wellnessmama.com/ The Wellness Mama Podcast is a weekly series covering the topics of holistic health, real food, stress, sleep, fitness, toxins, natural living, DIY, parenting, motherhood, and other health tips to give you actionable solutions to improve your family’s life! Brought to you by Katie Wells of WellnessMama.com Sat, 12 Oct 2019 13:15:04 +0000 en-US Copyright © 2019 Wellness Mama® Simple Answers for Healthier Families Katie Wells episodic The Wellness Mama Podcast is a weekly series covering the topics of holistic health, real food, stress, sleep, fitness, toxins, natural living, DIY, parenting, motherhood, and other health tips to give you actionable solutions to improve your family’s life! Brought to you by Katie Wells of WellnessMama.com Katie Wells - Wellness Mama support@wellnessmama.com clean https://wellnessmama.com/wp-content/uploads/wellness-mama-podcast-logo.jpgThe Wellness Mama Podcasthttps://wellnessmama.com/ https://wordpress.org/?v=5.2.3 289: Stoic Wisdom for Modern Life and Parenting With Ryan Holidayhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ryan-holiday/ Mon, 07 Oct 2019 11:00:04 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=419147

Today’s guest, Ryan Holiday, has been on my dream list of interviews for a long time. He is the best-selling author of many books including Ego is the Enemy, The Obstacle is the Way, and his newest Stillness is the Key, along with the Daily Stoic, a book I read one page from each morning.

Ryan’s ideas have changed the way I parent, and I think you’ll see why after this episode!

Episode Highlights With Ryan Holiday

  • Learn how Ryan and Katie both dropped out of college at 19 and why
  • The core ideas of stoicism including that we don’t control what happens to us, we only control how we respond
  • Core stoic virtues of wisdom, justice, courage, and temperance
  • How ancient stoic ideas are applicable to modern life and parenting
  • The importance of a mindset shift about obstacles
  • Why to never waste a trigger
  • How to go from obstacles being bad to seeing them as beneficial
  • And more!

Resources We Mention

Books by Ryan Holiday

More From Wellness Mama

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Read Transcript

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Katie: Hello and welcome to the Wellness Mama podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com. And today’s guest, Ryan Holiday, has been on my dream list of interviews for a long time. He is the bestselling author of many books, including “The Obstacle is the Way,” “Ego is the Enemy” and his newest “Stillness is the Key” that just released. He also wrote “The Daily Stoic” and its companion journal, which is a book I read every morning. I read one page corresponding to the day and it’s had a big impact on my life.

He’s a prolific writer. He’s also written for many publications and he’s written books on other topics besides just stoicism, although that’s what we go deep on today. And he has been accredited by “The New York Times” as kind of ushering in the modern popularity of stoicism. And in this episode, we really go deep on how this can apply in the modern world, especially to parents and as specifically to parents and with a lot of practical and tangible methods that we both employ in our daily lives to make that happen. This is one of my favorite interviews I have done. I know that you are going to enjoy it, too. And without further ado, let’s jump in. Ryan, welcome. Thanks for being here.

Ryan: Thanks for having me. I wish I could be where you are.

Katie: Well, you’re always welcome here. We love it when you come visit, but I can’t wait to interview you. You’ve actually been on my list of people I’ve wanted to interview for a really long time and you’re one of my favorite authors, so I can’t wait to get to spend this time with you and record it. And I think we actually share an interesting piece of past that I don’t think most people share, which is the, I also dropped out of college at 19. And if I remember correctly, you did as well. Is that right?

Ryan: I did. I did. Although this is why you should always be, you shouldn’t compare yourself to other people’s biographies because I’ll give you this. I moved to LA, left college on June 15th and I turned 20 on June 16th. So, I say that I dropped out at 19, but technically it was 20. So sometimes, you know, you always gotta realize that people are slightly exaggerating and inflating their biographies to make them as cool as they can be because that’s the point of a biography. So I’m curious did you actually drop out at 19, or is it more like 20 like me?

Katie: It was actually 19. I’m pretty young…

Ryan: So you’re better.

Katie: Well, but I was almost done with college. I had done everything pretty early and I had entered college essentially as a junior because of testing out of stock.

Ryan: Oh, nice. And you still dropped out?

Katie: I did. I was like really close to being finished and realized I was journalism, pre-law and international studies thinking I could, you know, change the world through that and realized once I got in there that you weren’t gonna change the system from the inside out. And I also realized I wanted a family and wanted to do things in my own way. So I walked in, I was actually the presidential scholarship, and I walked in and quit.

Ryan: Wow. So had you met Seth yet?

Katie: I had. I had met my husband that summer before walking. And we actually did a nonprofit walk from Los Angeles to DC, and we hit long distance dating since then. And I just knew like that was the direction I wanted to go with my life and that I definitely did not want a political career or journalism career in the traditional sense. And I just walked in and quit. And he’s like, “You can’t really do that. You’re on scholarship.” And I’m like, “Well, I am.” And I did. I’m curious what your story was. Why did you end up dropping out?

Ryan: So similar story in that I’d already met my wife, so like, you know, sort of number one goal of college crossed off. I’d met the mentor and the writer who I admired and wanted to be like in Robert Green and I had a job offer to go work at a management firm in Hollywood, which is sort of where I wanted to go career-wise. And I had a bunch of other awesome stuff going on. So I felt like I wasn’t leaving college, you know slinking off into the night. I’d accomplished a lot of what I wanted to do there. And like you, so I was set to graduate in three years and I left in two years. So I probably did like two and a half years of academic work in college. But it was primarily, I felt like I had accomplished everything that I would have used to say that my college career was successful.

So I wasn’t gonna turn my back on that to keep going to class. But the funny thing was, and I think people should bear this in mind when you’re thinking about making some of these life-changing decisions, is they can feel very drastic, but they are much less so. I also had a scholarship, it was not president’s, this was a chancellor scholarship. So I think it was 75% of my tuition. And I walked in and I said, “I’m here to drop out.” And they said, “You know, that’s not a thing like you don’t drop out of college.” And I was like, “What do you mean?” And they said, “Well, look, you just take a semester, you just don’t enroll in classes for a semester and you can come back whenever you want.” And I think I actually have a couple years left, maybe that I don’t know how long it is.

But the point is you don’t drop out, you just stop going and you can always go back, right? And so these things often feel much scarier than they are. Like people go, I don’t wanna quit my job and start a company. It could ruin my life. No, if the company doesn’t work, you would just go get another job. Like there’s millions of jobs out there. So we’re intimidated because we don’t wanna lose the status quo, but often you can very easily get right back to the status quo.

Katie: That’s a good point. I think any kind of life changes like that, they always seem so daunting until you get through them. I always try to remember that metric of in 10 years is this gonna seem as big and daunting as it seems right now and almost never does it. I’m curious, I wanna get deep on stoicism, but first, I’m curious, what do you think about college now that you have kids? Is it something you’re going to encourage and push them to do, or do you have a different view of it now?

Ryan: Yeah, I mean, I have a different view of it in that I know that it’s possible to succeed without college, but I also know that the fact that I was college-ready that I’d succeeded at college was partly why I was able to succeed as a college dropout, right? So when I hear from young kids, they write me and, you know, they’re like, I’m failing out of college, I wanna drop out like you. And it’s like, that’s a very different thing, right? Like if you can’t figure out how to make college work, that’s a sign that the real world is gonna be quite difficult for you as well. And in fact, I think college is easier than the real world. So I’m torn. I mean, we save for college, we have, you know, money taken out of our bank account each month to put our children in a position to be able to afford college if that’s what they choose to do. But I’m not gonna be like my parents, which, you know, sort of collectively lost their mind and, you know, did some very serious damage to our relationship by not supporting me in that decision that I decided to make. And so I think the idea is like, keep your options open. Colleges, neither the solution for every kid and it’s not, you know, to be avoided by every kid. It just depends on who you are and I think what you wanna do.

Katie: I think that’s a great point. And I had the same experience, not quite to that degree with family, but I come from on both sides of family of academics and PhDs and even now at family reunions, I’ll have relatives be like are you gonna go back to school and get a PhD?

Ryan: Right, right. Man, you’re like, I’m doing good. I’m probably doing better than you. But that college does occupy some degree of safety to people. That’s what I think it represents. And that’s great, you know, but I also, you know, going to college because you don’t know what you wanna do with your life and then racking up $200,000 in debt to find out that actually what you really wanted to be was a nurse or what you really wanted to be was a welder or you really wanted to open your own small restaurant, well that was actually a really dangerous decision for you to make then.

Katie: That’s a great point. Yeah. Especially with the amount of debt so many kids take on to get through college. Okay. So you are widely known for, in fact, I think “The New York Times” even said that you are largely responsible for the modern rise and the interest in stoicism. So I think that’s another place I’d love to start and to hear what brought you into that and how you discovered it yourself.

Ryan: Yeah, stoicism seems like this sort of stodgy old useless philosophy, right? When we hear the word stoic, we think has no emotions and it almost feels like it’s the opposite of where we should be going, especially as, you know, culturally we’ve come to understand the importance of vulnerability and the importance of empathy and the importance of processing your emotions. Well, I’m here to tell you that’s not what stoicism is. Stoicism is a way of living. It’s a guide to what the stoics would call the good life, human flourishing. And really at the core of stoicism I think is two assumptions. Number one, we don’t control what happens to us. We control how we respond, right? And I think this is something that intuitively mothers understand probably better than other people. You don’t control that your kid is throwing a temper tantrum, but you control whether you’re gonna make it worse, whether you’re gonna use this as an opportunity to teach them something, right? Mothers are constantly in the position of responding to the stresses and the difficulties of life. And I as a father, I am as well, right? Like how can I control how I respond to this situation? I can’t magically make it go away. I can’t make this hard thing easier. All I can do is focus on what I control, which is my emotions, my thoughts, and then the actions that I take. So that’s, I think point number one about stoicism.

The second is I would just give sort of four virtues that I think are essential to stoicism and I think they’re probably ironically or fittingly the same virtues most of us associate with our grandparents, with really wise or powerful people that we admire. So the first virtue of stoicism is courage, right? Courage under fire. Courage in painful situations, the ability to persevere, right? How do you stand up and do a really tough thing? The next is the discipline of justice, right? Doing the right thing. That’s good morals, that’s good values. That’s how do you have the courage to do the right thing when everyone is doing the wrong thing, right? So all these virtues are related. The next virtue is the virtue of temperance or moderation, right? This is something we have to teach our kids, right? You might think you want to eat this entire box of cookies, but you will feel awful after, right? Or drinking might be fun. It might be something your friends are doing, but it can get you in trouble if you don’t have self-control, right? The importance of resisting peer pressure or the importance of being too obsessed with what people think or being too dedicated to sports or this activity or that.

And then the final discipline of stoicism and the final virtue is a virtue of wisdom, right? How do you learn, how do you make education a priority? How do you better yourself? How do you expose yourself to things you disagree with or new perspectives or ways of thinking? And so those are the virtues, courage, justice, wisdom and temperance. And I think if we can teach those to our kids, if we can model them ourselves, we are gonna be happier, they’re gonna be happier and more importantly, I think the world will be a better place.

Katie: I love that. And I think you’re so right. I think those are things that moms are very on the ground day-to-day involve with kids. I mean, justice with working out and I know yours are still pretty little, but like sibling rivalry is a constant thing and temperance, teaching that to kids is a huge point. I think obviously wisdom for all of us is a lifelong journey. But I’m curious, what was your entry point into stoicism? Has it always been part of your life or did you discover it at some point?

Ryan: I mean, I wish that I could say that my parents had exposed me to this, right? I feel like it’s something I’m gonna do better with my kids is like, what are the great books, what are the great ideas, who are the great thinkers that I wanna make sure my kids are exposed to. A book recommendation for everyone, Senator Ben Sasse from Nebraska. He’s a Republican. You might not like him or maybe you’ll love him. But he wrote this book called “The Vanishing American Adult.” And it’s about how too many parents are basically raising infants, like sort of perpetual adolescents. This is kind of the things we’re seeing on college campuses these days. And he said every family should have a 5-foot bookshelf filled with the wisest best books that teach the values and the ideas and the insights required to be a successful adult. So that’s gonna be different for each family depending on what you do, what religion you are or what culture you’re from that everyone should have a book that they’d go, these are the books that we cherish as a family, that we read, that we talk about, that we reference.

So I wish I could say that’s how I found out about stoicism. But as it happens, I was a journalist in college. I was writing for the college newspaper and I was at a conference about sex that Dr. Drew, the television personality, was speaking at. And I went up to him afterwards and I just, I said, “Hey, like I’m young, I’m learning. You seem smart. What are some books you’re reading?” And he told me about Epictetus, one of the stoic philosophers. And from that, I went back to my hotel room. I bought the books and my life’s never been in the same since.

Katie: Wow, that’s awesome. And that I have not heard that book recommendation, but I’m definitely gonna check it out. I’m completely in agreement on that point. And that’s something that my husband and I have actively really thought about is how can we make sure that we’re raising competent adults and not perpetual children. And so we have some kind of principles in our house and things like we won’t do things for our kids once they’re capable of doing it themselves. So once they’re physically capable of doing their laundry, they do their laundry, they help in the kitchen, they help cook, and they are largely responsible for their relative existence. And also, we have like these things we say all the time explaining that life is not fair for instance, or that we were made to do hard things. So I’m curious, how does that, I know your guys are still young, but how does that roll over into your parenting?

Ryan: Yeah, I think there’s all sorts of great lessons from the stoics. One would be that thing we were talking about earlier that I think I wish I had learned earlier, right? We don’t control what happens. We control how we respond. So even the lesson you were just saying like about life’s not fair. Life’s not fair. Someone hurt you. Someone cheated and got away with it. You know, someone lied and didn’t get caught. Someone, you know, their parent lets them do this and I don’t let you do that. We don’t control that particularly as children, because so much of the world is outside of the control of young people, adults get to decide. Well, that’s true, but the child does retain the power and no one can take the power away from them that they decide how they’re gonna respond. They decide what they’re gonna do about it.

So are they gonna throw a temper tantrum about this? Are they gonna complain about it? Are they gonna whine about it or they’re gonna cry about it. They’re gonna blame other people for it. You know, you had this toy and you knocked it off the counter and it broke. Okay. So we can be sad about that. We can be mad about that. We can whine until we get an a, you know, to that we need a new one. Or we can decide we’re gonna figure out how to put it back together or we’re gonna decide to break, have fun breaking it apart even more. Or we’re gonna, you know, we’re gonna be more careful next time, right? Or we’re gonna wait, what are we gonna learn from this? How are we gonna benefit from it? And to me, that’s kind of the central lesson of stoicism.

But one of the things I’ve taken from stoicism and that I’m trying to think about now as a parent, I started this website on Father’s day this year called Daily Dad. And it’s just an email that goes out every day where I sort of write about the lessons that I learned from the sort of ancients that I think apply to parenting. And so I would say one of the things that, a mistake I see moms and dads make and I’ve seen my friends make is people are way too focused on like the trends of the moment as far as parenting, right? So people are like, do we do this or do we do that? What does the research say about X, Y, or Z when really like, clearly humans have been successfully raising children for, you know, hundreds of thousands of years, right? The broad strokes we’ve got.

And so one of the things I think people should do and what’s influencing my current parenting strategy is like going backwards. What are the best practices from history? And I think some of the ones you just touched on are exactly right. You know, teaching self-sufficiency, teaching that the world is relatively indifferent to you or your desires. So if you want something, you have to make it happen, right? We wanna look backwards to history to learn the best parenting strategies. We don’t wanna look at what the latest parenting magazine is telling us the fad of the moment is.

Katie: That’s such a great point. And it’s something I actually remember my grandmother saying when I had my first child is that our generation tries to make parenting so complicated and so much more difficult than it needs to be. And I think like the, I know this is something else that you’ve written about, but with parenting as well as with life, it’s almost like the less that we do and the less that we try to take on, the happier, calmer and more successful it is. Because I find kids are naturals at, you know, finding obstacles to overcome and climbing creativity. And so often we put all these things in place thinking we’re benefiting them when really we’re taking away opportunities where they could be exercising their own natural creativity or their own natural problem solving.

Ryan: That’s totally right. I actually wrote about this as one of the early emails for Daily Dad. I was thinking, why do kids like grandparents so much? It’s because grandparents are just way more chill than parents, right? The parents are thinking, no, you can’t do that. No, you’ll spoil your appetite. You know, parents are stressed so much more than they need to be, right? And they’re trying to, like, you never get a…look, there’s obviously bad grandparents out there, but grandparents are so much better at accepting kids for who they are and giving them the space to become whoever they’re gonna come, right? In a way, grandparents are better at, I think that unconditional part of parenting, right? Even if they struggled with it, with their own kids, the distance of that extra generation allows them to step back and give kids the space that they need.

I was just, I’ve read a bunch about Mr. Rogers. It was, I think it was grandpa McFeely was his grandfather. You know Mr. Rogers was his kind of sickly kid. He had allergies. He was chubby. His parents were a little clingy. They tried to keep them inside all the time. His grandfather was the one who encouraged him to go out and experiment and to get into trouble and to mess around. His grandfather was the one who told him, look, you make the world special just by being who you are. That was what empowered Fred Rogers to become the amazing human being that he did and influence and impact all these kids. And I think grandparents just because they’re less anxious, they’re less worked up maybe because they know they get to go home at the end of the day, do actually provide a great model for how parents should think more about their own parenting.

Katie: That’s such a good point. Yeah. I think grandparents are such a gift and that’s probably one of the very big reasons why. I’m also curious, so you’ve written, I’d love to go a little bit granular about some of the things you, because you have multiple bestselling books and I’ve really enjoyed all of them. But I’m curious what the thought process was of tackling each of those subjects in that order. So for instance, the first one, “Ego is the Enemy,” what was the impetus for tackling ego first? And I’d love for you to just walk us through some of the core principles of that.

Ryan: So I actually wrote “The Obstacle is the Way” a little bit before “Ego is the Enemy,” and it comes from a quote from Marcus Aurelius. He says, “The impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way.” And what he meant is that every obstacle, every difficulty, every messed up thing that we didn’t want to happen, as undesirable as it may be presents also an opportunity, right? Someone is rude to you or mean to you, betrays you, that’s a chance. Yes. That’s not fun. But it’s also, if you think about it, a chance to practice forgiveness or a reminder of why you can’t trust so easily, right? The computer eats all your work, that’s really frustrating. Obviously, you don’t want that to happen, it’s a reminder of why you need better practices for saving your work. And it’s a chance if you think about it, to start over from scratch with no baggage, right? Every difficulty we face in life is, in a way, an opportunity to practice a different virtue.

And so the stoics thought of obstacles as fuel. Marcus Aurelius says, “You know, what you throw on top of a fire is fuel for the fire.” And so that book is really about that mindset. How do we decide that I’m gonna be better for all the adversity and difficulty that life throws at me? And I wanna expand people’s definition of what adversity is. Adversity is not just what happens to you because you’re a minority, you know, because you’re a woman, because you grew up poor, because you lost an arm in an accident. Adversity is waking up to two sick kids, right? Adversity is going out to the garage and finding the car tire is flat. You know, adversity is, you know, one of the parents is on a business trip and the other has to, you know, do double duty for the next 48 hours. How are you going to respond to this? What’s the mindset you need to bring? What are the tools and creativity you need to bring and how do you have the strength to persevere through that difficulty?

So that’s what “The Obstacle is the Way” is about. And then the next book was “Ego is the Enemy.” Because what I realized is that ego is something that gets in the way of doing what we were just talking about, right? Ego is this kind of force field between you and being a great parent, being a great employee, or being a great boss, being a great neighbor, being a great leader. I don’t think it’s a political point to say someone like Donald Trump has taken a difficult job being president, probably the hardest job in the world and made it much harder with his ego, right? He’s created unnecessary enemies. He’s passed up easy opportunities for compromise. He said things, you know, out of arrogance or anger that have come back to haunt him, right? And that’s what ego does. It just makes a hard thing harder. And I don’t think any parent, any business person has ever thought, you know, what would make this really tough situation that I’m in easier, like more ego. No, ego makes hard things harder. So that’s what egos about.

And then the third book in the trilogy is “Stillness is the Key.” And I think stillness is another thing that stillness makes overcoming obstacles easier. Stillness is what you get when you sweep ego away. We all benefit from slowing down, thinking more clearly, being intentional, having routines, getting rid of chaos or unnecessary obligations and burdens. And so that series that it’s all influenced by stoic philosophy, but it’s really about, you know, how can we improve important domains in our life through that philosophy.

Katie: Got it. And my apologies. I read he goes the enemy first and so they always reversed those two when I think about which one was written first.

Ryan: No, they’re not really meant to be in any order. That’s just sort of the journey I went on as a writer. But I think people should just pick up if they are willing to give the books a chance, I would just say pick up whichever one feels like it resonates more with where you are in your life. If you’re anything like me or probably you, I would imagine that just we’re all suffering from like information overload, over commitment, mental exhaustion. And so to me, I feel like stillness is this urgent sort of epi…stillness is a solution to an urgent epidemic that we have as a culture and as a society right now. But you know, maybe you’re going through a difficult obstacle in your business or your personal life or with one of your kids and that’s the best place to start. They’re all interchangeable.

Katie: Let’s talk a little bit more about stillness because I’m guessing there might be some moms listening who are thinking things like, that’s a great idea, but I have kids and that’s not possible. And it’s always chaos because I think an important point that I pulled when I read “Stillness is the Key” is that stillness doesn’t have to mean physical stillness, doing nothing. That was really important distinction. I loved that explanation of like that the stillness of being wrapped up or fully immersed in an activity. So like for me, paint more, or drawing or writing. But let’s talk more about stillness and practical applications when we are in such a busy world.

Ryan: Totally. Well, look, what I would say is that it’s the busy mom who needs stillness more than ever and needs to be able to…I’m not saying like move to an ashram in India or go on a 30-day silent meditation retreat. Most of us can’t do stuff like that financially or, you know, just time wise. So what I’m talking about is how does the mom or the dad or the CEO cultivate stillness inside the chaos? Right. I opened the book with the story of Seneca, who’s trying to write in Rome in, like, the year 100 AD. And he’s just distracted by all the ear-splitting noise outside of his window. And he talks about how you have to develop strategies for tuning all that out and focusing on what’s in front of you because you can’t control the noise, as you were saying you can only control how you respond to the noise.

So, you know, it’s funny that like, I feel like most of the times in my books I’m really writing about things that I learned from my wife and my wife has just this model of stillness. I think we bring different strengths and different traits to the relationship, but like and you helped us with this because you gave us advice on this that smart pillow that helps put kids to sleep. But our son, Clark, I would say for the first two and a half years of his life, never slept. Like, I’m not sure how he’s alive. He never slept more than two hours or three hours in a row. It was brutal. And so bedtime was a nightmare. Like putting him down, it was so hard. So much easier with our second. But I think we just, you know, that’s just sort of who he was.

But like my wife would go in to put him down to bed and I might not see her again for like two hours. Like it was a two-hour experience of nursing and holding and putting him down and just getting him like, you know, the transition from your arms to the cradle and then, oh, it didn’t work. And she would just, the stillness required to do anything that hard in the dark for two hours. I mean, I can’t even do anything for like seven minutes without getting impatient or frustrated. And so, you know, to me, the patience and the stillness that mothers bring to parenting, to me embodies all the things that I’m talking about in the book. I’m talking about cute Kennedy and the Cuban missile crisis and the brilliance and the patients and the perspective and the empathy that he brought to that difficult situation. How he was able to resist the advice that his generals had to rush into action. He’s like, no, we should think about why the Soviets did this and how we can give them a way out and what they’re gonna do in response. I feel like and this might seem a little sexist, but I bet Jacqueline Kennedy, if she had been invited into the room, intuitively would have known and suggested all of those things. And so stillness to me is something we can take a lot of inspiration from women for, but we all naturally possess stillness. And the key is how to cultivate it and develop it so it’s more at the forefront of our lives.

Katie: That’s such a great point. And you’re right. I think that was one of the lessons for me several years ago and actually when I was kind of delving into the idea of stoicism was that when it comes to cultivating these things, it can’t be left into the like little bits of time that we have left over or just added to a to-do-list. And I realized this in my own life when I almost, I think had a nervous breakdown trying to balance everything between the blog, the family and all of it. And came close to actually deleting “Wellness Mama” because I realized I couldn’t do everything at that level anymore and I wasn’t willing to sacrifice family. And in that moment, I realized there was a drastic difference in how I was managing the two things.

So in business, the most important things always happened first. And I had objectives and goals and I objectionably evaluated things. Whereas at home, I was trying to juggle everything in my head and just manage it myself and take on everything. And that wasn’t realistic. And so I sort of switched the entire idea of how I ran our family. And put the actual most important things first like family dinner and like spending time together and having time for self-care and for exercise and the things that help cultivate stillness. And it was a really drastic shift in the family because I was calmer and encouraged the kids to be calmer. We all had so much more bandwidth. But I think you’re right, like motherhood is wonderful for kind of building in some of those lessons of stoicism.

Ryan: Well, so two things. I think one like I don’t think this is just limited to women, but like one of the things that having a newborn really taught me and now my son’s three and my other son’s about four months is like, what we’re doing is what we’re doing, right? Like I don’t think playing in the dirt is fun, but that’s what he thinks is fun. If he can do it for hours and hours, so that’s what we’re doing. Do you know what I mean? That like stillness is just being present and enjoying and finding, you know, experiences in sometimes in the most mundane and ordinary things. And I think one of the things that having kids really teaches you that is such a critical part of stillness is presence and not like you go…so many parents, it’s like, “Oh, now we have to go.”

It’s like, do you really have to go or is this made up thing that you are deciding to do? Can’t you just do this and why don’t you just play? Why don’t you just sit here at the park for three hours instead of running? You know, you think this other thing is more educational and important, but really like sitting here playing in the sand is teaching all sorts of lessons. So I think I learned a lot of presence from parenting and that’s been an important part of stillness in my own life. And you brought up that idea of burnout. Like people think, Oh, I can’t afford stillness. I’m busy. I’ve got a company to run, I have money to make. I’ve books to write, a blog to keep you know, I have a career I’m trying to advance in.

Well, if you ended up working so hard that you work yourself into an early grave, that’s not good for your career, right? If you work so hard that it sucks all the joy and love that you had out of what you were doing, and so you wanna quit, that’s not good for your career. If an athlete is so unable to balance and pace themselves that they injured themselves, that’s not good for their career. Look at Kevin Garnett. He or, sorry, not Kevin Garnett, Kevin Durant. He hurt himself in the playoffs this year. He was recovering. Against doctor’s advice, he rushed back. He played like for like eight minutes in one of the games in the finals and blew out his leg and is now missing an entire season. So, you know, we say we wanna be there for our kids. We wanna provide for them, but if we actively injure ourselves mentally or physically because we can’t find a balance and we are incapable of moderation, one of those keystone virtues, well that’s pretty self-defeating.

Katie: So for you, personally, as both a business owner and a parent, what are some of the ways that these ideas of stoicism manifest in your daily life in a practical way? So how do you implement some of these? What are your own strategies?

Ryan: Sure. Well, give you some, I think some strategies that I’ve tried to practice that I think will be helpful for cultivating stillness and make people a better parent and a more stoic one. Number one is…this comes from Winston Churchill. Winston Churchill said the most important thing that a powerful public person needs to have. He said a good hobby. You need to have hobbies that balance you out, right? You can’t just be all about work. You can’t just be all about family, right? How many stay-at-home moms live and die by their kids and that’s why they hold onto them so tightly and why they get so wrapped up and say their personal lives or, you know, trying to bribe their kids way into college or whatever. It’s like, no, you should have been painting Martha or you should have, you know, gotten into doing triathlons and that would’ve been a good outlet for some of that energy, right. And allowed you to have some more balance and perspective with your kids.

So for me, and this ties into a second part of stoicism like physical exercise almost enduring or seeking out suffering in your life. So I try to swim or run every single day. And that exercise I think makes me a better dad. This morning I gave a talk here in Austin. And so I had to take my son to daycare, in pre-K and then I had to go do this talk and I had to be there by 10:00. And then I’ve been in recording interviews and preparing for the book launch all day. So it was a busy day, right? But it was important for me to exercise. So I got up at 6:30. I did some of my work. My son woke up at 7:30 and I took him on a four mile run in a stroller. And so that was our time together in the morning when we talked. We had fun, we were out in nature, but I was also taking care of myself. Sometimes when we do it in a bike, you know, sometimes I carry him in a backpack, but we experienced that morning together. And I think it’s really important.

Another important habit, and I know you’ve talked about this before, but like the power of journaling. You’re gonna wish in 20 years that you wrote down some of the memories and the experiences that you have while raising your kids, or just that you journaled the difficulties and the tough times that you had. And so, you know, we’re gonna want those journals in the future and your kids and your grandkids and your great grandkids will be grateful, you know, to look at those journals 50 years from now, 100 years from now. And so I’d encourage everyone to grab a notebook and try to jot a few thoughts in it every single day. So those are just be a couple straightforward strategies that I think are pretty practical and usable.

Katie: Those are great.

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Katie: And to circle back to something you said earlier when you were talking about “The Obstacle is the Way,” I think that’s another really profound mental shift that is especially beneficial in our specific period of time. I think at least the social media world that I see people are so easily angered and emotions skyrocket and they escalate and people build on each other for that. And I think that mindset shift of away from the idea that any obstacle is bad and actually to the idea that an obstacle can be very good is really profound. Are there any ways that you, like tangible ways you get people to start implementing that mindset shift because it is a big one?

Ryan: Well, you know, there’s this expression that’s become so popular now. People are like, oh, that’s trigger. You know, you’re like, “I’m triggered.” You know, and we wanna like we wanna sensor unpleasant or offensive viewpoints. And look, I’m not saying anyone should say anything offensive. Like, I try not to hurt people’s feelings. I don’t wanna be rude. I don’t like to just say mean or hurtful things for the sake of it. But I also, at the end of the day, think truth is important and I am not a fan of censorship. So like the idea that we should be teaching our kids to shout “trigger”, you know, that you’re triggering me and close their ears, you know what that’s doing? That’s setting them up to be hurt more because they’re more vulnerable to those things because they have no experience.

Adam Carolla, who I think is hilarious. I don’t agree with him on everything, but I think he’s hilarious. You know, he gave this great talk. I think he was testified before Congress and he was talking about this sort of censorship. It’s popular on college campuses. And he was like, look, this is the parents’ fault. You know, he’s like, this is like parents who have given their kids really bad allergies by not exposing them to things, right? By keeping your kids sheltered, by not, you know, by no nuts allowed or you know, like by overprotecting them, you’re actually made them incredibly vulnerable. By not letting them play in the dirt, they’ve not gotten the antibodies and the sort of exposure to things that they need to build up in a strong immune system.

And so I think one of the things we’ve gotta be really careful with as parents is not sheltering our kids from all the bad offensive things. Like people go, What should I tell my kids about what Donald Trump said on television? What should I say about these, you know, vulgar television shows?” Well, you should have an intelligent adult conversation with your kids about why certain things shouldn’t be said, why it reflects poorly on the person who said them, what it means, you know. It’s your impulse to block them from the unpleasantness of life that will ultimately make life much more unpleasant for them once they leave your house.

Katie: So true. And I love that you brought that up about allergies because that’s been, I think a shift that’s finally happening in the nutrition world is that for so long they had pregnant moms avoid allergens like nuts and avoid giving them to kids and it actually made the kids more likely to have allergies. And now the science is saying actually early careful introduction is much more effective and important. And so we’re starting to see that. And the same with dirt and like how we now know of kids play in the dirt and have pets in the home, they’re less likely to have allergies and less likely to have problems. And then how much of a metaphor for life that is like we can’t protect our kids from the emotionally tough things in the world either. A friend of mine, Aaron Alexander has a quote, he said, “Never waste a trigger.” And he goes onto how that shows you something really important about yourself. Like if someone else doing something that’s not directly aimed at you as causing you to have some kind of really strong emotional reaction, turn that around and figure out why because that’s really enlightening thing to look at.

Ryan: I just wrote that down, never waste a trigger. That’s so good. Well look, and you might agree, you might disagree with this which I, I would be perfectly fine to hear it, but like one of the things like my wife doesn’t eat gluten. I try to eat sort of mostly Paleo, the whole 30, I don’t eat a ton of gluten, but we let our son eat gluten. Like obviously as he gets a little bit older and is sort of more nutritional health matters. Like if he was an athlete or something, we’re gonna try to eat healthy and we don’t just like make him sandwiches all the time. But we didn’t wanna be the parent that says like, don’t give my kid pizza at this party, right? Because one, we didn’t want to be that. But also we know we can’t be there preventing him from eating a cupcake or a cookie at school if someone gives it to him.

So we wanna make sure that he has an, you know, the first five years of his life, he didn’t grow up in a bubble just because we eat healthy and we know what’s good or bad. We wanted to make sure he was prepared for a world in which, you know, stuff gets slipped in your food or you feel pressured to eat something because you don’t want to upset people or somebody doesn’t know. And are you making a mistake? We didn’t want that to be the first time that he, you know, eats this or that and it throws his whole body into shock. We wanted him to have the freedom to know, you know, does that make sense or is that crazy?

Katie: Absolutely. No, and I’m right there 100% with you. I actually invested in a company that’s doing the research on early introduction, introducing gluten, peanuts and dairy to babies starting at six months when they get food, but in very small doses and building because of that exact thing. If they’re not exposed at all, and I’m the same way, I eat, almost never eat those things. I almost never eat gluten or dairy or processed food in general, but I don’t forbid my kids from it and I don’t tell them they can’t eat things and when they’re out in public, they 100% make their own choices about food. And my thought is at home I’m responsible for cooking for the family and I’m gonna cook what I believe to be healthy and good for them. But I’m also not gonna control them when they’re not there. Because if anything, it’s like when you, you know, an alcohol is this completely forbidden thing, then they more likely, you know, to consume that when they’re older. And so having those conversations about it, certainly educating about why they might choose not to do those things, but not forbidding it because I think that can make them more likely to actually want to try the thing.

Ryan: That’s a great point. Yeah. And you don’t like, I think it’s important with kids like, eh, I don’t wanna give them any issues regarding food. Do you know what I mean? Like, I don’t wanna make food an obsession in their lives. I don’t wanna give them body or you know, mental issues pertaining to food. I want them to eat when they’re hungry, eat reasonably, you know. I just, and then we’ll handle it when they’re a little bit more capable of having an adult discussion about it. But I think you’re right. This is a great metaphor for parenting and for life in general. Like I think with this college admission scandal, like introduced a new term to me. Like I was familiar with helicopter parents, right? You don’t wanna be the parent that’s constantly hovering, making sure they don’t fall down, you know, being way too involved in their business, always watching, always observing, spying on them, whatever. That’s helicopter parenting and it’s bad for a lot of reasons.

But what these parents were, was snowplow parents. That’s what I heard. They were constantly, they were in front of their kids removing obstacles, removing difficulties. So they always had a clear and pleasant path to wherever they wanted to go. And that involved cheating on the SATs, that involved bribing their way into college. These kids never experienced difficulty failure, setback. The parents removed obstacles and then wondered why the kids were so fragile and you know, didn’t thrive. And so the job of the parent is not to prevent your kid from experiencing adversity. It’s to equip the kid to know how to respond to adversity because what’s a better strategy for life? Pretend that you can always be there and always eliminate obstacles or help raise and instruct a kid so obstacles never slow them down more than they need to.

Katie: Wow. Yeah, I heard that term as well, snowplow parent. And I feel like I’d be the complete opposite of that because when I look at my own life, I realize a lot of my accomplishments have come as almost a direct result of obstacles and overcoming those obstacles. And some of those things I had to work through where things I would certainly never wish on my child. But obviously as parents we wish our children every success and happiness in life. And that’s something I’ve really wrestled with as a parent is how do I, like, how do I hopefully give them those same skills and lessons without them hopefully having to go through some of those hard things that I did. And also realizing as a parent I can’t purposely make their life hard. That kinda goes against parenting.

And so for us, we tried to find ways to build in natural good challenges in ways that we can tackle as a family and that might be travel, that might be tackling new skills together, like handstands or whatever it may be. I’m curious how you guys approach that with your kids as they start to get older. How do you approach the idea of obstacles and equipping them for those things and also, giving them chances to fail and have obstacles?

Ryan: Well, that’s a funny thing cause I’ve heard from lots of people, adults since the book was written and they go, you know, “Does that mean I should seek out obstacles?” And it’s like, what life is gonna throw enough obstacles at you that you, I don’t know, you need to go seek them out. But I do think making sure that we’re not actively preventing those obstacles from happening is really important for kids and also, putting them in positions or giving them experiences that force them to learn. So like, I think it’s interesting, like obviously you wanna be cognitive of say choking, but like the idea that that you should give two craps what the toy box says, the suggested age for a toy is to me is hilarious. Like, I’m gonna give my kids the toys that challenge them, that make them that they have to figure out. I’m not gonna give them the simplest, easiest toys. Like, that’s not how you learn. That’s not how you get better. You get better by being put out of your comfort zone, by having to figure things out.

So yeah, we’re constant. Like our, you know, our kid was swimming from like, you know, three months on where he likes to wear a life jacket, but we encourage him to swim without a life jacket when we’re in the pool because, you know, if we let him in our pool in a life jacket, we find that the next couple times he’s swimming without a life jacket, he’s too brazen and his skills have atrophied, right? Because he’s gotten used to just jumping in off the side and not having to swim back to the side, right? And so we’re constantly trying to put him in challenging situations and experiences, not like throwing up obstacles in his path, but sort of like you’ve done with your kids. And I’ve seen them, they’re wonderful. Like they’re out there exploring outside, you know, their free range or whatever the expression is, because that’s what’s gonna put them in a position to naturally experience obstacles that they grow and learn from.

Katie: Yeah, exactly. And I think there’s also ways as parents, we can easily let build an obstacles in the form of just natural consequences by not problem solving for them, like you said, or not doing things for them when they could have done it themselves. So for instance, like with our kids, if they don’t like a food that I cook, they don’t have to eat it, but they’re not getting anything else. And our thought is that hunger is a great natural teacher and that is, you know, an obstacle that’s not life-threatening in any way that they will gladly overcome by the next meal. But that they can learn from that scenario. Or now that they all do their own laundry, if they don’t do their laundry, they don’t have clothes, and that’s an obstacle they’ve created and then they have to solve because I’m not gonna solve that problem for them. And so I think you’re right, like all of those things, if we just build in those lessons, life certainly throws plenty of them at all of us.

Ryan: Yeah, I think that’s right. I think that’s right. And not solving the problems for them when they come to you with a, “Hey, fix this.” And it’s like, you know how to fix this. You show me how to fix it. And I think that’s really important.

Katie: So one of the critiques I’ve heard of stoicism is that it’s an ancient philosophy and how can it actually, you know, fit into modern times and that these philosophers didn’t chase a lot of this stuff that we face in the modern world, which I’ll agree with that point. They didn’t deal with social media trolls and they didn’t deal with the constant demands of all of the things that necessarily hit us in modern life. But I’m just curious your take on that. When you hear people say like, you know, how does stoicism really fit in the modern world?

Ryan: To me, people are people. And the more things have changed over the passage of history and time, fundamentally, the more they’ve stayed the same, right? Marcus Aurelius had like 9 or 10 kids, you know, he ran an empire. He had people who worked for him. You know, if he was cold in the winter and hot in the summer, you know he dealt with critics. He dealt with fans, you know, he dealt with plans that he had that fell apart. He was trying to solve the problems of existence just like we are. And he was coming at it from a position of great privilege, which many of us have, right? We’re lucky to be born in America. We’re lucky not to be impoverished. You know, we’re lucky to have our health.

On the other side of the stoke spectrum, there’s Epictetus and Epictetus was a former slave. He was disabled. His leg was sort of all but useless and he walked with a limp all of his life. And yet he was the other famous stoic philosopher so much so that he was probably Marcus’s favorite philosopher. And he has all sorts of interesting things to say about those experiences, which are timeless as well. How many people are disabled? How many people have come from less than desirable circumstances? How many people have anger and resentment about things that people have done to them? Right? Stoicism is ultimately a philosophy that’s I think applicable to whoever you are, whatever you’re doing, wherever you are. Because ultimately those virtues we talked about earlier on, temperance, courage, wisdom, justice, we all need more of these things. And the ancient world has a lot to teach us about them just like the research that we’ve done, you know, in psychology and biology and neuroscience has a lot to teach the Stoics, right?

Like Marcus would have been a better parent, I’m sure if he had John Bowlby’s, you know, breakthroughs about attachment theory pertaining to kids. Maybe his kid, Commodus, wouldn’t have been so messed up if Marcus probably hadn’t had and, you know, had a closer, more involved relationship with him. So it’s not to say stoicism is perfect. No. Nothing is perfect and everything, you know, from the past has biased and flawed assumptions. The stoics didn’t have a problem with slavery, right? Even Epictetus who was a slave never seems to have questioned whether as institution that was okay or not, right? So there’s a lot that needs to be updated within stoicism and I kind of tried to do that in my books, but the idea that you would write it off just because it’s all this ridiculous. The Magna Carta is old, the Constitution is old, you know, Christianity is old. But that doesn’t mean there’s not a lot of good ideas in those things.

Katie: I completely agree. And another thing that you have is you have these coins that I actually keep with me all the time now. Yeah. I have memento mori and I have a amor fati. And so I took Latin all the way through high school and I love Latin phrases, but I love if you could just kind of give us an overview of those two specifically because I just find them really helpful in my own life. And I think it’s so cool that you made those.

Ryan: So I have those two coins. I have in my left pocket, I have the memento mori coin and it comes from an ancient stoic practice. The idea of meditating on your mortality on the back as a quote from Marcus Aurelius, he says, “You could leave life right now let that determine what you do and say and think. And so I think about that always, and I made this coin for Daily Stoke. You can see it if you’ve got a daily stoke.com/store. But the idea of the coin is like a reminder that…a physical reminder can reach in my pocket and touch it. I can spin it around on the table and it’s a reminder to me constantly not to take life for granted and not to take anyone for granted.

One of the, I think the most provocative exercises in all this stoicism, and this might trigger some moms listening, Marcus Aurelius and Epictetus both said that as you tuck your child into bed at night, you should say to yourself this could be the last time that I see them. You know, that they might not make it to the morning. The idea of thinking that your children are mortal is so repugnant and so terrifying that we don’t wanna do it. But the purpose of that exercise is not to detach from your children. It’s to not just go through the motions as you’re tucking them down, not to take them for granted, not to hold a grudge, not to yell at them because they’re, you know, putting on their pajamas too slowly or to get upset that they, you know, they spilled their food on the way into the bedroom or to take it personally that they yelled or got frustrated with, you know, like, enjoy this. Don’t take it for granted. Don’t take anyone for granted. We do not possess the people that we love. They can be taken from us at any moment. And this is an essential part of stoicism.

And then in my other pocket, I have amor fati, which it comes from that other metaphor from Marcus Aurelius we talked about earlier, the idea that, you know, he says what you throw in front of a fire is fuel for the fire. Amor Fati means you just love everything that happens. You embrace all of it. Your family is stuck at the airport for three hours because your flight is delayed. You can sit there and complain or you can go, this is the best thing that ever happened to me. I’m gonna say yes to this and we’re gonna have a fun family experience. Or at the very least, I’m just not gonna yell at anyone. You know, I’m not gonna take this personally. I’m not gonna get upset by it. Just gonna accept it and I’m gonna enjoy it as best I can. And so this idea of memento mori and amor fati to me are two critical practices to parenting, to life, to entrepreneurship because I mean, what else are you gonna do?

Katie: I love both of those so much. And okay, so I always love to ask book recommendations at the end of interviews and your books are actually some of my most recommended, but I’m curious what books besides your own you have really taking like life lessons from or have really been foundational for you?

Ryan: Yeah, so I’ll give you a couple. I think some of these kind of pertain to stoicism. Some of them pertain to parenting. One of my favorite books is a book written by a woman named Totto-Chan who is sort of like the Ellen of Japan. And she wrote this memoir of growing up in Japan as a young girl during the Second World War called “The Little Girl at the Window.” And it’s about this sort of untraditional education that she had, this wonderful school principal who embraced her strangeness and weirdness. She’s clearly a kid with ADHD is what you would call it now. But this teacher instead of trying to change her, embraced her and encouraged her to be who she was, and it’s one of my favorite books and I just absolutely love it. I would recommend “Antifragile” by Nassim Nicholas Taleb. I think that’s an important one. I think that’s what we’re trying to do with kids is not raise fragile kids, but kids who are strong and resilient.

I really like “The Second Mountain” by David Brooks, which I read recently, which is like, so the first mountain we try to climb as career success that’s being famous, that’s being rich. But it says the second mountain is your family is the impact that you have on your community. It’s what you do for other people. It’s figuring out why you were actually put on this planet and what kind of impact and difference you can make. That’s a really important one. And then I have one that I think Seth would like that I just found out about recently. I didn’t know Herbert Hoover, the president, you know, the guy who basically didn’t respond right to the great depression happened to have written a book called “Fishing for Fun” and the subtitle is “How to Wash Your Soul.” And he wrote a book about the therapeutic philosophical and spiritual benefits efficient. And I just I thought it was beautiful. We have a little lake behind our house and I’d love to go out there and fish and my son fishes with me even though he’s three and it’s totally true. You never come back from fishing worse off than you did before you came, even if you don’t catch anything,

Katie: I love all of those and I’ll make sure they are in the show notes as along with links to the Daily Dad and all of your books and all of your sites. But where can people find you online if they wanna follow your work and stay in touch?

Ryan: Well, that would be really cool if they did. So I’m @ryanholiday on pretty much all social platforms. You can go to dailystoic.com/email if you want an email inspired by stoicism every day, dailydad.com if you want a parenting email each day. And then I hope they check out “Stillness is the Key” which is available in bookstores everywhere starting October 1st.

Katie: Awesome. And I got a pre-release copy, which I was really grateful to get and I highly recommend that you guys, it’s awesome. I think it’s especially like we talked about, applicable to parents and I think it’s a really important message in today’s world. But Ryan, like I said at the beginning, you are one of my favorite authors and I have looked up to you for a long time. So I’m really grateful that you took the time to be here today to share with the audience. And I love that we took such a parenting direction because I think that’s such a perfect and applicable way to talk about stoicism.

Ryan: Well, thank you. And I’m so glad. That was very nice of you. I’m so glad we met at John Durant’s event and that I overheard you talking about where you live because that’s a place that my wife and I visited a lot and it happened. I think that’s why we connected and here we are talking. So it’s awesome. And Samantha says hello. I just texted her to say we were talking and she says hello and hopes you’re doing awesome.

Katie: Oh, I love it. And tell her hi for me and your little ones as well. And thank you for your time today and thanks all of you for listening and sharing your time with us today. We’re so grateful that you did and I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the “Wellness Mama” podcast.

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288: Breakthrough Solutions for Anxiety, Depression and PTSD With Apollo Founder Dr. David Rabinhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/david-rabin/ Mon, 30 Sep 2019 11:00:12 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=419069

I’m going to go ahead and say it: this is one of my favorite interviews I’ve ever done to date! You definitely need an open mind for this one. We’re talking about how a breakthrough technology could change the way we manage, treat, and actually fix things like anxiety, treatment-resistant depression, PTSD, and other conditions. I’m here with Dr. David Rabin, the chief innovation officer, co-founder and co-inventor at Apollo Neuroscience. Apollo is the first wearable system to improve focus, sleep, and access to meditative states by delivering gentle layered vibrations to the skin.

Since Dr. Rabin has also spent the last 10 years studying the impact of chronic stress in humans, I figure he’s a great person to also brainstorm with about ways to improve your own sleep, your children’s sleep, and your heart rate variability, which is one of the things most linked to health.

Episode Highlights With David Rabin

  • Why Dr. Rabin became so interested in mental health and the topic of stress in particular
  • The single biggest factor in any type of recovery and healing
  • How he figured out a way to “trick” the body into feeling safe
  • What heart rate variability (HRV) is and why we are coming to know it as an important health marker
  • The risks associated with low HRV… and ways to raise it
  • Why pyschedelics might be the answer for stopping PTSD and other pyschiatric conditions for good
  • MDMA and what it does for the brain and the emotions
  • What the FDA trials show so far about these controversial medicines
  • How the Apollo wearable balances the nervous system in real time (without drugs!)
  • Why Dr. Rabin thinks psychiatrists are not just for the mentally ill
  • And more!

Resources We Mention

More From Wellness Mama

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Read Transcript

Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.

This episode is brought to you by Four Sigmatic, creator of all things superfood mushrooms and founded by my favorite Finnish Fun guys. I love all of their products, and in fact, I’m sipping their Reishi hot cocoa as I record this. These superfood mushrooms are always a part of my daily routine with their coffee + lions mane or coffee + cordyceps in the morning for energy and focus without as much caffeine as coffee to their chaga and cordycepts in the afternoon for antioxidants and immunity and the Reishi elixir at night for improved sleep. They also just released skin care that so clean you not only can eat it…. But its encouraged. Their charcoal mask has activated charcoal to clarify, chaga and cacao for an antioxidant boost and other herbal and superfood ingredients. It’s so clean that it can literally be made into a cup of hot cocoa as well! Their superfood serum contains a blend of avocado and olive oils with Reishi and herbs for a hydrating skin boost. As a listener of this podcast, you can save 15% with the code wellnessmama at foursigmatic.com/wellnessmama.

This episode is sponsored by Just Thrive Health probiotics. I found this company when searching for the most research backed and effective probiotic available and I was blown away at the difference in their products! They offer two cornerstone products that are both clinically studied and highly effective. The first is their probiotic, which has been clinically studied to help with leaky gut and to survive up to 1,000 times as much as other probiotics or the beneficial organisms in something like Greek yogurt for instance. The difference is, their spore-based strains work completely differently than other types of probiotics. Also, this probiotic is vegan, dairy free, histamine free, non-GMO, and is made WITHOUT Soy, dairy, sugar, salt, corn, tree nuts or gluten—so it’s safe for practically everyone…I even sprinkle it in my kids food and bake it in to products since it can survive at up to 400 degrees! Their probiotic contains a patented strain called Bacillus Indicus HU36®, which produces antioxidants in the digestive system – where they can be easily absorbed by body. Their other product is a K2-7, and this nutrient—you may have heard of it—is known as the “Activator X,” the super-nutrient that Weston A. Price—a dentist known primarily for his theories on the relationship between nutrition, good health, bone development and oral health. He found this prevalent in foods in the healthiest communities in the world. Their K2 is the only pharmaceutical grade, all-natural supplement with published safety studies. Like the probiotic, this is also, gluten, dairy, soy, nut and GMO free. Both are best taken with food so I keep both on the table. My dad has trouble remembering to take supplements so he taped them to the pepper shaker, which he uses daily, and they’re now on his daily list as well. Check them out at justthrivehealth.com/wellnessmama and use the code wellnessmama15 to save 15%!

Katie: Hello and welcome to the “Wellness Mama Podcast.” I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and I really hope that you will listen to this episode with an open mind and stick with me all the way through, because I am talking to one of the smartest people I’ve ever met about some really important topics including really scientifically tested breakthrough ways that they are managing, treating, and actually fixing things like anxiety, treatment-resistant depression, PTSD, and so much more. And there are some great tips about things like even just improving your own sleep, your children’s sleep, and your heart rate variability, which is one of the things most linked to health.

And I’m here with Dr. David Rabin, who is the chief innovation officer, co-founder and co-inventor at Apollo Neuroscience. In his role, he’s developing Apollo Neuroscience’s IP portfolio and running clinical trials of the Apollo technology, the first wearable system to improve focus, sleep, and access to meditative states by delivering gentle layered vibrations to the skin. We’re going to get into that today. Dr. Rabin is a Board Certified psychiatrist, a translational neuroscientist, and inventor and has been studying the impact of chronic stress in humans for more than 10 years.

He has specifically focused his research on the clinical translation of non-invasive therapies that improve mood, focus, sleep, and quality of life in treatment-resistant illnesses. He has 4 patent-pending applications and 40 more recently filed. He received his MD in medicine and PhD in neuroscience from Albany Medical College and trained in psychiatry at Western Psychiatric Institute and Clinic at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center. Dr. Rabin has also organized the world’s largest controlled study of psychedelic medicines in collaboration with colleagues at Yale, the University of Southern California, and MAPS to determine the mechanism of psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy and treatment-resistant mental illness.

It’s really fascinating. Make sure to pay attention to that part of the podcast. And we’re gonna go deep on what that means and the implications for anyone suffering from those conditions. So buckle your seat belt and listen up. This is one of my favorite interviews to date. Here we go.

Dr. David, welcome and thanks for being here.

Dave: Thank you so much for having me, Katie. I really appreciate it.

Katie: You are undisputedly one of the top experts in the country about this and I’m so excited to go deep. But I’d love to hear first, how did you get into this area of research to begin with?

Dave: That’s a great question. It’s been a long path. I think the original impetus for me was that as a kid, I had a lot of really vivid dreams. And I would have dreams where they were so real that I wasn’t able, when I woke up, to realize what was from my real life and what was from a dream. And that really fascinated me because I was told, as a child, that what happens in dreams are not real and not consistent with real life but I was having these experiences that made me feel like they were actually happening or had happened. And so that made me, from a very early age, really fascinated by consciousness and our sense of, you know, what is reality and what is this experience that we all share together.

And so from there, I started studying…over time, that field has actually turned out to be very difficult to study which is no strange fact to people in that area. And so I ended up pursuing the study of resilience because, and resilience being how well do we adapt to stress in our lives. Because one thing that I noticed over time was that, particularly through my medical training, was that many people have very severe trauma in their lives, physical and mental and emotional, and they overcome that constructively and are able to use the mistakes that they made or the trauma to learn from and to strengthen themselves as people and become much better and stronger versions of themselves.

And we see that in a lot of the leaders in our community and so I saw that and then I also saw the population of people, which was overwhelmingly in the majority, who have had either equivalent…who have had roughly equivalent levels of trauma but have not overcome or have succumbed to the trauma and not recovered effectively and developed, as a result, physical or mental illness. And so I started looking at it on the cellular level with human neural stem cells, looking at aging disorders of blindness and dementia and why some people would develop that compared to others. And then I did that for about six years in New York and then realized that the stress response mechanisms that go on in our neurons are actually very similar to the stress response mechanisms that occur on the whole body level.

And that made me really interested in mental health and helping people cope with stress more constructively on the whole. And so I started, I went into psychiatry and with a focus on post-traumatic stress disorder and treatment-resistant mental illness like anxiety, depression, and substance use disorders and particularly with a focus on why do people self-medicate, for instance. And ultimately found that one of the key factors to helping people get better in these situations is helping them feel safe, whether that’s in the office or whether that’s at home. Safety is the single biggest factor that helps facilitate recovery and healing.

And so from experiencing that, we ended up developing a technology called, which is the Apollo technology, that uses vibration delivered through a wearable that actually induces feelings of safety in the body in near real time to help people cope with stress and perform under stress more effectively.

Katie: That’s so fascinating and I definitely wanna make sure we go deep on the Apollo in a minute. But I love that you mentioned the word resilience and I’m curious, before we move on to I know things that are going to be obviously helpful with that, if there were any patterns or trends or traits that you saw in people in an aggregate that seemed to predict if they were gonna be more resilient or not, or if they were gonna express with mental illness or if it was gonna make them more resilient. Because that’s something I think about a lot in, you know, how do I give my kids the tools to be more resilient in life and how can we as individuals become more resilient in life? So were there any patterns that showed up there?

Dave: Yeah, absolutely. I think what’s really the most interesting patterns that I’ve witnessed are, I think, what we call cognitive patterns. So they’re patterns about the way that we think about our lives. So on a very basic level, this could be something like the way that we look at challenge or failure. A lot of people in our society, we’re taught oftentimes that when we’re faced with challenge, especially challenge that we don’t understand, we frequently ask the question, why me? Why do I have to go through this? Why do I have to face this? Rather than seeing the challenge or the opportunity to make mistakes as an opportunity for growth that pushes us to be our best selves.

And I think that the most important thing to think about when we talk about challenge is that, you know, if we went through our lives completely unchallenged, then we wouldn’t be forced to learn a lot of the critical skills that we need for survival and caring for ourselves. And we see that a lot in multiple different examples in our society. However, when you are forced to overcome challenges and you’re forced to reconcile with mistakes which puts you into a position where you feel that learning from these opportunities…these are opportunities for learning that make us better.

That goes back to Nietzsche who said, “What does not kill us, makes us stronger,” is actually not related to physical injury but really mental and emotional injury. And this is something that is overwhelmingly true but not necessarily practiced or considered. And I think that leads into a very…a much more important finding about resilience has been discovered in the last 15 years which is called heart rate variability. And heart rate variability is the rate of change of your heartbeat over time. And so typically, when you think of your heartbeat or your pulse, you think of having 60 beats per minute pulse is good at rest and 60 beats per minute, we often think of as one beat every second.

But in reality, what’s happening with your heart is sometimes, it’s one second between beats, sometimes it’s one and a half seconds, or sometimes it’s half a second. And the more variability there is between your heartbeats in terms of how much the heart rate is changing over time, the more adaptable to your environment you are. And we now have tons of studies that have come out from the athletic and performance literature and also from the medical literature that show that if you have low heart rate variability, which most commonly is caused by things like lack of sleep, chronic stress, persistent stress, and burnout, and just stress in general, if you have low heart rate variability over time, your chances of developing a physical and mental illness are much higher and your chances of recovering from a physical and mental illness are much lower.

And your chances of developing, say in the hospital, sudden cardiac death as a result of…when you’re recovering from a cardiac illness or a procedure is much higher if you have low heart rate variability. And so clearly, heart rate variability has come to the surface as a really useful metric that we can all use because now, you can measure it with wearables to predict and ascertain resilience and how basically adaptable your body is to stress. And so now we’re using this a lot and it’s starting to become used a lot more in society. And you’ll see your Apple Watch measures it, and your WHOOP measures it, an Oura Ring measures it, a number of other devices measure it, but we don’t talk a lot about how to improve it.

And there are a lot of natural ways to improve it like meditation, mindfulness, deep breathing, regular yoga practice, good nutrition, biofeedback, and these kinds of things. But those take a lot of time and effort for people to practice but all of those are powerful resilience training tools that have been around for sometimes in the case of deep breathing and meditation thousands of years. But they can also take thousands of hours of practice to become really good at. And so where Apollo and even psychedelics start to come into play is that these are techniques or tools that allow us to dramatically improve our resilience and our adaptability in short order with just a few doses of medicine, or in the case of Apollo, a wearable that you can keep with you all the time, to help train your body to reinforce your adaptability throughout your day.

Katie: Yeah, it’s so fascinating. That is one of the few metrics I really track carefully ever since I started reading the literature about it. Just as a benchmark, before we start going into talking about specifics that can help, what do you consider a good range for HRV? And does it vary with age or body type? Are there variables there?

Dave: So HRV is a bit of a complicated metric and I think there’s still a lot of understanding that we need to do because, in truth, only in the last five years or so, have we been able to start measuring heart rate variability in people throughout the course of their day and their lives. Until wearables like the Apple Watch and the Oura Ring and Whoop and some of these other things came out, heart rate variability wasn’t really a metric that was used very much in the general population or the medical field other than to predict, for example, your risk of sudden cardiac death and it was not using mental health really at all. And so there is still a lot of work that has to be done from understanding how heart rate variability changes over time.

But ultimately, so I guess to answer your question, we don’t exactly know what is a good heart rate variability for any one individual because everybody’s baseline is different. And so I can tell you that ideally, we wanna have our heart rate variability somewhere between 60 and 120. When I see and work with the most elite performers or people who are expert meditators, their heart rate variability is oftentimes in between 120 and just over 200 milliseconds which is pretty incredible. So ideally, that could be our goal is to aim for something in that range. But ultimately, in general, with people like us who are very busy and active in our lives, having something between 60 and 120 milliseconds is good for most people.

And I think the goal is to just try to aim to trend your heart rate variability upward as much as possible because we don’t know what your maximum is. There may not be a maximum for your heart rate variability. And so ultimately, more importantly, then a single measurement is trending it over time and ensuring that you are continuing to practice activities that promote a positive trend in HRV rather than the opposite. And people who are really chronically stressed out will oftentimes have an HRV that’s in the 20 to 40s range or even lower. And that correlates with a lot of the decrease in performance and recovery and poor sleep and poor mood regulation and things that we’ve been talking about.

Katie: That makes complete sense. I know I feel like pretty accomplished as a mom of 6 when I can keep mine over 100 on a daily basis. But I know I’ve heard from people who it’s more like the 30s or 40s and they want some ways to increase that. So that’s really helpful to understand. I also have a friend who is very conscious of breathing and meditation and all of that and his is routinely over 200, which I didn’t even know it’s possible till I met him. So I think you’re right. There’s so many variables that come into play there. And I want to make sure we have enough time to talk about this. I’m just going to jump into the like semi-controversial big stuff right now.

I mentioned in your bio that you helped organize the world’s largest controlled study of psychedelic medicines with Yale, USC, and MAPS to study the mechanism of psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy in treatment-resistant mental illness. And there’s a lot I wanna unpack here. Before we move on though, can you explain what MAPS is because people may not be familiar with MAPS?

Dave: Sure. MAPS is the Multidisciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies that is a nonprofit that was started by Rick Doblin and colleagues in 1985 to basically forward research into psychedelic and really what’s called altered state medicine. So these are medicines that change our mindset in over a short period of time, pretty significantly, that facilitate states of healing or the states that promote healing. And so, originally, I think when we look back, it’s very easy to forget about the original research that led up to all of this work that MAPS has done.

But ultimately, psychedelics medicines like LSD and MDMA and a lot of the medicines, even psilocybin, which comes from mushrooms, were medicines that were traditionally used to treat trauma, mental and emotional trauma. And even originally in the ’50s, ’60s, and ’70s, this was the chief use of these medicines. Unfortunately, they were not controlled properly and they were released out into the public and became substances of abuse. And so also that led a lot of the political, you know, the politicization of these medicines and unfortunately, the banning of a lot of them in the U.S. which prevented research.

And so MAPS in 1985, particularly with Rick Doblin’s brilliance said, “Okay, we know that these medicines are really, really effective and we know that if they’re used in the proper safe setting, that they can deliver incredible results therapeutically for mental and physical…mental and emotional illness. And that you can do a pretty good job of providing safe experiences as long as you properly prepare the subject and have a well curated experience with therapists and/or doctors present and then you have the integration sessions where you really take everything you learn from these experiences and integrate them into your life afterwards ideally with the assistance of a therapist who understands what you’re going through.”

And so MAPS, and Rick Doblin went and basically said, “What is going to be the best way to get these medicines out there? Well, let’s use them to help people who have the most severe conditions that are untreatable with any other medicine in the Western medicine, particularly in mental health.” And so he started to focus on PTSD and particularly veterans with treatment-resistant PTSD. And fast-forward now to just a few years ago, the five-year review results came back from the FDA phase II study of treatment-resistant PTSD using psychotherapy assistance with MDMA, which is a 12-week protocol with just 3 doses of medicine delivered with 2 therapists in 8-hour sessions.

And most of the 12 weeks is psychotherapy. And what happens is that the results, five years out, showed that over 60% of these folks who are diagnosed with treatment-resistant PTSD, who on average have had PTSD not responsive to any Western medicine for on average 17 years, 5 years after just 3 doses of MDMA and 12 weeks of therapy, are completely…60% are completely symptom-free. And this is a groundbreaking result for psychiatry because it is using medicines and a paradigm that we have not understood medicines to be useful before.

And so typically, in psychiatry, we prescribe, we’re taught to prescribe medicines that people take every single day and that you take these medicines every day and ideally, you also go to therapy and over time, you get better. But what we ultimately see is that unfortunately, people become dependent on the medicines or have significant side effects of medicines that prevent them from taking them. And so what drugs or medicines like MDMA and psilocybin or the other psychedelics come in is that they are inducing rapid long-lasting change in people that with only three doses of medicine that don’t require continued daily usage.

And people ultimately who go through these treatments are…what happens is after they experience these medicine sessions and integrate everything they’ve learned with their therapist, a lot of the work happens on their own because they now feel safe enough and feel motivated enough to embrace change in a positive way in their own lives. And so a lot of the healing ultimately comes from within themselves and MDMA or psilocybin really uses a tool to help open up and remind people that they have capacity, that we have the capacity to self-heal. And so that’s what a lot of these studies have been moving towards.

And now MDMA has actually just started its phase III trial with the FDA in just over 200 subjects and we are working with them to…with MAPS to collect saliva samples from all these subjects before and after their treatment so that we can look at the changes to the DNA expression of trauma and reward response and stress and reward response genes that we believe to be contributing to the long-lasting outcomes from these medicines.

Katie: That’s amazing and really striking because I know that, you and I talked about this in person, but when it comes to mental health and medication, this is, I mean you said it was groundbreaking, but like truly astonishing compared to things like the traditional treatments for anxiety and depression. Is that right? I mean I know we talked about how that ratio of side effects to actual positive outcome, what that looks like in the treatments that are used now versus what it could look like in psychedelics but can you go a little deeper on that?

Dave: Yeah. So one thing that we are oftentimes not told as physicians by the pharmaceutical companies is that when you really look at the data overwhelmingly of people who are treated by antidepressants or anti-psychotic medicines, for instance, what we look at are two major numbers that are really important or statistics that are really important. One of them is called a number needed to treat, which is how many people do you need to give them medicine or therapy for them to experience positive therapeutic benefit. And the second one is number needed to harm, which is how many medicines or therapies do you to give to somebody or give to people to start to see side effects pop up.

And unfortunately, with most of the mental, the medicines that we use to treat mental illness, what we’re seeing after many, many years of population studies is that the number needed to harm is actually lower than the number needed to treat which means that if you prescribe these medicines to people, on average, if they are…the patients are more likely to experience side effects from the medicine than they are to experience benefit. And I think if most physicians who are prescribing these medicines and most patients knew that this was the case, they would probably be a lot more cautious about the way that they prescribe them and maybe not use them as a first-line therapy.

I think what’s really paradigm-shifting about, and just to put it in perspective, psychotherapy, for instance, has a very, very good high…a very low, for the most part, number needed to treat. You don’t need to treat a lot of people to start to see positive therapeutic benefit particularly when you can get the patient to practice what they learned in treatment. But it has a very, very, very high number needed to harm because psychotherapy is very safe and it’s very difficult to harm people with it. Psychedelic medicines like MDMA and psilocybin, both of which I forgot to mention, received breakthrough status from the FDA, psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression in 2018 and MDMA also for treatment-resistant PTSD, which accelerates their process through the FDA and this accelerates the ability for people to access it in the community.

These medicines have the opposite ratio of these statistics. So with something like MDMA, you can have one dose, and what’s really paradigm-shifting with these medicines, you can have one dose of MDMA or psilocybin and have a dramatic self-acceptance, non-judgment, empathetic experience with yourself that’s incredibly therapeutic that if done in the right way can last for days, weeks, months, and even years afterwards. And that’s just one dose of medicine whereas… And so the risk of side effects is much, much lower than taking medicine every single day. And so it’s really paradigm-shifting because mental health has never had medicines like this that we could do research on where we could induce such rapid and significant change with just a single dose or three doses, in the case of the phase III trial with PTSD.

And so now, a lot of what we’re struggling with as a field is how to effectively integrate these medicines into our practice and provide safe and effective access to as many people as possible. And that’s a challenge that we’re going to face nationally as physicians over the next 5 to 10 years after these trials are completed with the FDA.

Katie: Yeah. I think you’re totally right on that. And I think that there’s still so much misinformation and just like emotional stuff that tends to go along with even just the word psychedelics. And they’re often…that word is often tied to like party culture or to using these things in a recreational environment. I think that’s why it’s so important to educate about the truly therapeutic uses for these because there are so many people, including the listeners of this podcast, who are working through anxiety or depression or PTSD and perhaps have never even considered these kinds of treatments. To go a little deeper, can you explain what MDMA is, like maybe what effect it’s having on the body in the brain and also what it means to be in phase III clinical trials?

Dave: That’s a great question and I think the language concept that you bring up is really important. And the language with the way that we describe these medicines is that they should be described as medicines, not drugs and not psychedelics. Because ultimately, what they are, they’re perceptual medicines. They’re medicines that change the way that we perceive ourselves and our environment and our connection to ourselves and to our environment. And so if we talk about them, we change the way we talk about them to be medicine rather than drug, rather than recreational substance, or psychedelic.

It’s supposed to change the way that we see these things and the way that we see that we can integrate them into our society effectively and the way we practice health. But going back to MDMA specifically, MDMA was one of the first what’s called an empathogen or a medicine that induces a state of radical empathy and self-acceptance. And this was actually discovered in the early 20th century but then kind of shelved at a pharmaceutical company who didn’t really understand the purpose of it or what it could be used for. And then it was later rediscovered by Sasha Shogun who actually tried it himself and recognized that there were dramatic benefits to it that were not ever previously perceived.

And so he ended up distributing it to, it was legal at the time, and he distributed it to therapists to use for couples therapy, for people who were unable to see eye-to-eye, and it worked incredibly well, and there’s a ton written on this subject which all happened in the ’70s and ’80s prior to MDMA becoming a recreational substance of abuse. And it was also used for trauma treatment. And the thing about MDMA that’s unique is that it pretty selectively activates the emotional cortex of the brain, which is the central component of our brain that’s focused on compassion, empathy, gratitude, self-acceptance, radical non-judgment, and interconnectivity or seeing the connections between us and ourselves and everything else around us.

One of the best way to describe the MDMA experience that we like to use for people is what we call child’s eyes, which is being able to have an opportunity to go back and see the world again and see yourself again as you did when you were a child before anything bad happened to you or you had seen anything bad happen in your life. And MDMA, interestingly enough, is also not a traditional psychedelic. So it doesn’t provide really hallucinations or perceptual disturbances in your environment where you see things or hear things that you don’t believe are there. And so it’s a very safe and emotionally-connecting and comfortable experience.

But one of the main things that most people say when they experience MDMA for the first time, whether they’re in a therapeutic setting or not, is that they experience this feeling of radical safety. And radical safety is critical because that’s something that we always strive to provide people in our therapy sessions without drugs. And what radical safety does is safety allows us to see and understand and take action on opportunities for change that we may have not seen or made the steps to forward when we’re in a state of fear or threat or perceived fear or threat. Because threat and fear, especially over time, directly inhibit our ability to change.

And so safety is critical for change and we now know this not only from psychotherapy and the history of psychoanalysis but also from these new studies that are coming out about MDMA which really just focuses on providing the subject with feelings of radical safety that dramatically accelerates their ability to change themselves with the help of a therapist or two therapists. And so phase III, why it’s so significant that these are in phase III with the FDA is because phase III studies are the final step for a drug or medicine or therapy to reach the public. And so, at this point, MDMA has already gone through phase I trials, which look at toxicity and look at side effects, which were very…they had very good results and side effects were very, very minimal and not significant compared to many of the other medicines that we prescribe.

And phase II is the trial that was completed that I told you about which had the dramatic results in a population of about roughly 100 subjects with treatment-resistant PTSD, where five years out, something like 60% of people were still symptom-free and without any further medicine or therapy. And so phase III is a much larger double-blind, randomized, rigorous, controlled trial, that ultimately is the final step that MDMA has to go through and all medicines, new medicines, have to go through before it can be prescribed by a physician freely in a clinic.

And so this is really exciting for our field because MDMA will likely be, in addition, ketamine already exists legally and can be used for psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy as well for treatment-resistant depression, but MDMA will be the first medicine that was illegal or illegal back in the ’80s, ’70s and ’80s, that will now be ultimately legalized for treatment of severe treatment-resistant PTSD and eventually other mental illnesses as well.

Katie: That’s amazing and really exciting. And I definitely resonate with what you said about that feeling of safety. Because having been through an experience that created PTSD for me in the past, that’s a profoundly painful thing to feel not safe in your own body. And then to experience what you mentioned about self-acceptance and self-love when you have it for so long, is really dramatic and striking. And it makes total sense to me why people could see really drastic changes in such a short time from these kinds of medicines. You also mentioned that psilocybin received breakthrough status. So walk us through a little bit how psilocybin is different or the same as MDMA and how it’s used in a clinical setting?

Dave: So psilocybin and MDMA and actually LSD for that matter and many of the other psychedelic medicines that induce similar effects are and that have been used traditionally for the treatment of trauma were actually found recently to activate a very similar part of the brain, which is really fascinating. And I think this work will be very, very important as we move forward into the next generation of science in this area. And it was work that was done by Franz Wilhelm Water in Switzerland, who found that over the last 10 years of studying these medicines, that they activate very, very similar parts of the brain. And not only very similar, but actually at the same or right near the same receptor site, which is called the 5-HT 2A receptor, which is a serotonin receptor, that is predominantly located in the cerebral cortex of the brain, which is where we store our memories and experiences.

And also not just physical memories and experiences, but also emotional memories and experiences. And so what happens is and what we believe to be happening is that based on the work that that Goldwater’s group did is that when you experience meaningful interactions in your life, whether it’s drug or substance or medicine related or it’s just an experience that comes from having a great time hanging out with your friends in a really positive environment, you’re activating the 5-HT 2A receptor, which gives meaning to your experiences. And the meaningfulness of these experiences seems to be a factor of activation of this receptor site in bursts. And the reason that’s important is because what the most common side effect of people who take selective serotonin uptake inhibitors for depression or anxiety is that they feel numb.

And part of the reason why people believe that the numbness occurs and numbness unfortunately, usually starting with people not being able to be sexually aroused or have orgasms, which is a very severe and unpleasant side effect of SSRIs and very common, unfortunately, is that it’s believed that those medicines increase the total amount of serotonin around of serotonin receptors like 5-HT 2A but also all the other serotonin receptors. And what happens is that when you flood that receptor, you prevent burst activity from happening anymore. And so first activity comes from having meaningful experiences in your life, again, or using tools that help enhance the access to meaningful experiences.

So that’s where MDMA and psilocybin come in and LSD, which directly have been found now to bind the 5-HT 2A receptor and provide this significant or facilitate the significant burst of activity at that receptor site, which now is believed to be the most important source of how people experience these dramatic changes in meaning or incentive meaning towards self and others when they take these medicines. And the reason why we know that now is because the group did this amazing experiment where they gave people an oral drug called catantharine which blocks activity just at 5-HT 2A. And when they show this, when people take psilocybin mushrooms or psilocybin extract or LSD, that when they take the cantatharine as well, it completely blocks any effect from these psychedelic medicines in terms of shift in meaning.

And so the only way that could happen is if this receptor sites, these 5-HT 2A receptor site was critical to our interpretation and understanding of meaning from our experiences in our life. And so there’s still a lot of work obviously that has to be done in this area to flush out exactly what’s going on with these medicines and how they work. But, ultimately, the meaningfulness of all of this is that we have the capacity to change how we interpret meaning from our lives on a regular basis. And this can be with things like human touch, calming soothing music, deep breathing meditative mindfulness, or psychedelic medicines, or things like Apollo wearable. And that technology and all of these different things are tools that can be used in very specific ways to help us feel safe by enhancing positive meaning in our lives.

And so that seems to be the way that most of the things are working. And they all have slightly different ways that they work. But ultimately, that seems to be the way that they all kind of converge is on helping us be more present by being safe and accepting of ourselves so that we can change the way that we see ourselves or change the way that we see the meaning that comes from within ourselves and from everything else around us in our lives.

Katie: That’s probably the best explanation I’ve ever heard. And I love that you went into actually was happening biologically in our body because I think that, for me, at least understanding that really helps me to understand the true benefit of things like this.

This episode is brought to you by Four Sigmatic, creator of all things superfood mushrooms and founded by my favorite Finnish Fun guys. I love all of their products, and in fact, I’m sipping their Reishi hot cocoa as I record this. These superfood mushrooms are always a part of my daily routine with their coffee + lions mane or coffee + cordyceps in the morning for energy and focus without as much caffeine as coffee to their chaga and cordycepts in the afternoon for antioxidants and immunity and the Reishi elixir at night for improved sleep. They also just released skin care that so clean you not only can eat it…. But its encouraged. Their charcoal mask has activated charcoal to clarify, chaga and cacao for an antioxidant boost and other herbal and superfood ingredients. It’s so clean that it can literally be made into a cup of hot cocoa as well! Their superfood serum contains a blend of avocado and olive oils with Reishi and herbs for a hydrating skin boost. As a listener of this podcast, you can save 15% with the code wellnessmama at foursigmatic.com/wellnessmama.

This episode is sponsored by Just Thrive Health probiotics. I found this company when searching for the most research backed and effective probiotic available and I was blown away at the difference in their products! They offer two cornerstone products that are both clinically studied and highly effective. The first is their probiotic, which has been clinically studied to help with leaky gut and to survive up to 1,000 times as much as other probiotics or the beneficial organisms in something like Greek yogurt for instance. The difference is, their spore-based strains work completely differently than other types of probiotics. Also, this probiotic is vegan, dairy free, histamine free, non-GMO, and is made WITHOUT Soy, dairy, sugar, salt, corn, tree nuts or gluten—so it’s safe for practically everyone…I even sprinkle it in my kids food and bake it in to products since it can survive at up to 400 degrees! Their probiotic contains a patented strain called Bacillus Indicus HU36®, which produces antioxidants in the digestive system – where they can be easily absorbed by body. Their other product is a K2-7, and this nutrient—you may have heard of it—is known as the “Activator X,” the super-nutrient that Weston A. Price—a dentist known primarily for his theories on the relationship between nutrition, good health, bone development and oral health. He found this prevalent in foods in the healthiest communities in the world. Their K2 is the only pharmaceutical grade, all-natural supplement with published safety studies. Like the probiotic, this is also, gluten, dairy, soy, nut and GMO free. Both are best taken with food so I keep both on the table. My dad has trouble remembering to take supplements so he taped them to the pepper shaker, which he uses daily, and they’re now on his daily list as well. Check them out at justthrivehealth.com/wellnessmama and use the code wellnessmama15 to save 15%!

Katie: And it’s also important to note, unfortunately, that things like psilocybin and MDMA are currently not legal in the U.S. at least. So while they show really promising results, and I’m hopeful for the future of those, they’re not really accessible to most people, which is why I’m so excited for the Apollo. And I would love for you to really walk us through and explain it because when you and I talked about this, it kind of blew my mind. And I got the chance to try the prototype when I was with you and was amazed at how much of an effect I actually felt and the change I saw in heart rate variability in tracking it. So walk us through how the Apollo is both similar or different and what it’s doing to the body?

Dave: So Apollo is the first wearable technology that uses gentle layered vibrations delivered to the body through a small wearable. It’s about the size of an Apple Watch that can be worn an ankle or wrist and these frequencies have been proven in double blind, randomized, placebo controlled trial to show that we can enhance focus and calm and performance under stress by balancing the nervous system in near real time. And basically, the reason we developed these frequencies and we even bothered to explore this path was that I was seeing patients who had PTSD and anxiety and depression who were severely treatment resistant, not responding to anything else any other medicines or therapies because they just didn’t feel safe.

And when they came into my office and we talked for an hour, they would say, “I feel so much better and I feel like I can make these changes in my life that we worked on.” But then when they leave, they would instantly be triggered again and not be able to practice these things because they just didn’t feel safe enough to make those kinds of changes. And so I have a background in music and grew up playing music. I never was never very good but I always had a good, great appreciation for music, especially the way that it changed how I feel. And that I would use some music to study and some music to wake up and other music to help fall asleep. And that was always really interesting to me because I never understood why that works so well and why so many people got the same similar benefits from music.

And so I started talking to my patients about that and what they were using. And a lot of them use music to feel calm and use music to help them through their through their day and to feel safe and help them make change and interact in their engaged in their day to day lives more effectively. And many of these people also important to know, as a substance abuse psychiatrist, many of these people had drug abuse histories, which were oftentimes drugs that were prescribed to them by doctors and doctors who just didn’t understand how to treat their conditions effectively and were sort of, you know, at their wit’s end.

And so, for me, you know, working with these people, you know, psychedelic medicines can be very useful, but again, they’re hard to access in a therapeutic way because they’re not legal yet for the most part. And it’s hard to find people who practice good medicine with these psychedelic medicines. And it’s also not necessarily the best. Not everybody is a good candidate for a medicine. And so, you know, particularly kids and elderly folks, people with substance abuse histories. And so we developed Apollo using the theories that we understood of music changing the way we feel to give somebody the benefits of music and feelings and being able to regulate their daily bodily rhythms, circadian rhythms more effectively without relying on substances like coffee or alcohol or really more generally, stimulants and sedatives which are become a big part of our lives.

And to really show you that using something as minimal as a little vibrating pot on your wrist or on your ankle, that you have the capacity to control your energy levels, to decide when you want to be focused and awake, when you want to fall asleep, and when you want to meditate and calm down. And that over time using these and we now have over 1,500 people who have tried this in the wild with our wearable prototypes, and we found that overwhelmingly, people are using it in place of caffeine and in place of, you know, alcohol and sedatives at night to fall asleep. And it’s having great benefit at least from the preliminary results in terms of symptom relief in some of these treatment resistant mental illness conditions.

And the most common thing that we hear from people, particularly people who have mental illness, is that it just helps them feel safe and they liken it to somebody holding their hand or giving them a hug when they’re having a bad day. And that’s exactly what we decided to do by sending these vibrations to the touch receptors in the skin. Just like when somebody holds your hand, that sends safety signals to your skin through the touch receptors in your skin through your spinal cord to the emotional cortex of your brain, which starts to block the fear center of your brain that may be overactive in the setting or trauma or chronic stress. And just having that little gentle input on a regular basis can help you to not only perform better under stress, but also to recover and sleep more effectively and sort of regenerate and your energy on a more regular basis.

Katie: It’s so exciting to have technology and be able to use it in ways like this. And I know that a lot of the moms listening hear you say things like help you relax and go to sleep at night. And their immediate question is going to be is this, “Can this be used on children?” Because every mom wants her children to go to sleep a little more easily at night. So is this going to be approved for kids as well?

Dave: Yeah. So that’s a great question. And I think going back into what I was saying earlier, we really designed this technology to be extremely safe and effective for us on vulnerable populations of people because those are the populations of people that aren’t necessarily good candidates for medication. And so those populations include children and they include elderly folks and they include pregnant women and people who may otherwise not, for whatever reason, not the good candidates for medicine or not want to take medicine. And so we have a number of a pilot studies have been done in kids. And we are now in the process of starting studies with elderly folks in nursing homes as well as in pregnant women for postpartum depression.

But in kids, the results are really, so far, excellent. And we see that kids respond very, very well, particularly if they’ve have a history of trauma, a history of ADHD or depression. Their bodies are incredibly sensitive to touch. We know that in large part historically because when you look at the development of the emotional brain, the emotional cortex that’s really at the center of our brain, which is referred to as the insula, this part of the brain primarily develops, starts developing in the last month of gestation in utero before the baby is born. And then that part of the brain develops mostly over the first two years of life, and then continues to develop over the next several years of life.

And so what we see is that it’s critically important to nurture the development of that part of the brain with close human connection and touch in those early years when children are developing and we used to think that, you know, babies are babies and they don’t have it fully developed brains and they don’t need to have this kind of human connection early on from their parents or from anyone, and you can just, you know, leave them by themselves or let them cry or whatever it may be. But it turns out that that’s absolutely not true. And that those close human connections are not only important for us as adults, but they’re critical for the proper emotional development and nurturing of young children right after they’re born, which is also why breastfeeding is so important because it facilitates a tight communication between the mother and the baby.

And just even having the eye to eye contact while the mother is holding the baby and breastfeeding creates an incredible emotional link between the child’s emotional cortex and the mother’s emotional cortex. And so all of this now have over time particularly the last 20 years really started to understand better. So, yeah. So Apollo provides these similar benefits. It’s not a substitute for human touch. It’s not a substitute for meaningful human interaction. But for people, particularly adults and children who don’t have the access to these things on a regular basis, it can help to reduce some of the symptoms of anxiety and depression and irritability that can disrupt sleep and disrupt behavior and disrupt attention that ultimately result in these kids being prescribed medicines that they may not need or may cause undue harm.

Katie: That makes complete sense. And I’m so excited that these things are now available. I know people listening may want to know where they can find it and how they can try it. And of course, I will make sure there are links in the show notes so they can connect with you and find out how to get an Apollo. But just walk us through that real quick how. When will this be available and how can it be used?

Dave: So Apollo will be available in the fall. And people can come to our website at apolloneuro.com or apolloneuroscience.com to get access to pre-order and reserve their first Apollo and be one of our first users. And I think important to know is that the use of Apollo is the onset of effect is typically very quick for most people. We see in the lab, it’s about three minutes before your body starts to change in terms of heart rate and breathing and brainwave patterns.

And so what we typically recommend and how it’s we designed the app and system to be used is intentionally so that you have a specific goal in mind and say, “I want to wake up. I want to focus. I want to meditate. I want to relax or I want to fall asleep.” And you click on that for how long amount of time you’d like that effect to last for. And then the effects typically lasts for anywhere from 30 minutes to two hours after the vibration stops, which is consistent with how long healing touch or therapeutic touch last in the body as well. And so over time, what will happen is that the software will continue to learn about your body and the way that you interact with it to optimize the timing of delivery. And the specific settings that you receive so that it works better for you, the more you use it, and it grows with you and continues to teach you about how to be more mindful and how to be more present in your day-to-day life.

So that over time, similarly to practicing yoga or similarly to practicing meditation, Apollo, its effects seem to come on more quickly as you use it and they last longer. Because the people’s nervous system becomes tuned and practiced to the Apollo effect, which is really critical and something that I think should we should not go without mentioning, which is that practice makes perfect. And I know my mom told me that. And probably a lot of our listeners have heard that before too. And I never really understood what that meant to me. But what I realized over the last few years that if you practice thinking about something in a certain way, or doing something in a certain way, whether it’s good or bad, constructive or positive, you will get better at it.

And so if you practice being stressed out, or being traumatized or being upset or angry, you’ll get really, really good at those things. And if you practice feeling calm under stress, being relaxed, being able to regulate your emotions more effectively, you practice honing your attention and focusing more frequently and concentrating, you will get better at those things. And so ultimately, what Apollo and meditation and breath work and all these things have in common is that they all effectively help the user to practice the skill of balancing your nervous system, which over time results in enhanced ability to recover and return to homeostasis more quickly, which has these ultimate impacts in terms of focus and performance and sleep.

Katie: That’s so exciting. I cannot wait to get mine and you are such a wealth of knowledge. I knew our time was going to fly by quickly. And I think maybe you’ll hopefully agree to a round two at some point, especially as we see things like hopeful legalization of certain substances. And we have more data on Apollo. I’d love to have you back and discuss it more. But toward the end of episodes, there’s a few questions I love to ask. The first being if there are a few things that you feel like are misunderstood or not understood about this area of expertise?

Dave: That’s a great question. I think there’s a lot to talk about here. But I’ll focus on a few things that I’ve been thinking about. I think the first is that the field of psychiatry and psychology is often stigmatized as this mental health field. It’s not for everyone. And I would argue the complete opposite, which is that psychiatry and psychology is about healthy living through understanding our lives better and understanding ourselves better. And that has nothing to do with mental illness. And it has nothing to do with being, you know, looked down upon by society as less than everyone else. It has to do with being your best self and teaching yourself how to be your best self as far as much of the time that we’re on this earth as possible. And when we start to embrace that understanding of mental health and psychology and psychiatry, it changes the way that we think about self-care and healing.

I think the second one is something we’ve touched on a lot, which is that the sense of touch is critical to health. Sense of touch overwhelmingly is probably the most neglected sense in our society. And we oftentimes keep distance from people around us that we’re unfamiliar with, particularly in the U.S., whereas in Europe, a lot of European countries in Latin America, people often hug and kiss strangers. That’s something that oftentimes doesn’t occur in the U.S. And similarly, that often doesn’t occur within families who are not strangers. And so there ends up being a deficit of touch that many of us face. And touch is one of the most critical senses to emotional nurturing and emotionally nurturing that sense of safety and love within one another and interconnectivity.

And so making sure that we have enough touch in our lives is really, really important and should always be on the forefront of our minds. And then I think the last thing would be that therapy is like the things we’re talking about are tools to help us heal ourselves, not cures. There’s this idea in western medicine that’s been put out over the last couple hundred years, which is that healing comes from outside of us, and that you have to put something from the outside of us into our bodies to heal. And what has been, I think, and what we’re moving towards now from understanding medicine a whole lot better in the 21st century is that these medicines and these things we put into our bodies to heal including food are and activities that we engage in are important, but they are really tools to help us access or open up states of healing that are always within us.

And that the healing that we want to engage in for whatever reason is that just to become a better stronger person or if it’s to overcome an illness, the majority of that healing process comes from within you, starting with the belief or knowing that you can get better by making change in your life. And the medicines like psychedelic medicines or like Apollo are tools to help us access these experiences and seeing these opportunities more readily and integrate them into our lives.

Katie: I love that. Secondly, I love to ask if there’s a book that has really dramatically changed your life, if so what it is and why?

Dave: So there’s a couple, one in particular that has always stood out to me was actually referred to me by my dad when he found out that I was interested in psychiatry and mental illness. And the book is by Eric Kandel who is a very, very famous psychiatrist and psychoanalyst who won the Nobel Prize in 2002 for discovering the mechanisms learning and memory. And he wrote a book called “In Search of Memory,” which is an autobiography, but it’s probably the best autobiography I’ve ever read because he didn’t spend a lot of time highlighting everything that he did and how he is the best. But he spent a lot of time really going through in detail all the contributions that everybody made to the field that ultimately resulted in him, you know, winning the Nobel Prize and making these great discoveries about memory and learning.

And I think what’s really important about his work is that Eric Kandel is a Holocaust survivor. And what you’ll find when you start reading that book, which I highly recommend, is that his path to his ultimate discovery, making him a world famous scientist that has made incredible contributions to our field and our understanding of, you know, what it means to be human and how memory works, comes directly from trauma. You know, he had incredible trauma growing up and being a, you know, him and his family losing everything and being a victim of the Holocaust, and ultimately saw that as an opportunity to learn and grow and integrate that information as uncomfortable and traumatic as it was into a way to better understand how those memories are stored and how trauma affects us not only in the moment, but also over time, and what we can do about it by providing this cellular and molecular understanding of memory.

And so, if anybody is has ever thought about being interested in this area or if you are not interested in this area, I would still recommend that you check out this book. And it’s something that anybody can read. It’s written at a level that, you know, anybody can understand and I think it gives probably one of the best introductions to the most important discoveries in the field of neuroscience in the 20th century.

Katie: I will definitely check that one out, too. That’s a new recommendation on here. Thank you for that. And lastly, any takeaways or final parting advice? I know we’ve covered so many topics and gone deep. And this is one of my favorite episodes to date, truly. But any parting advice to leave with the listeners?

Dave: I really appreciate that. Thank you. This has been really fun. I think the parting advice would be just reiterating couple things that we talked about earlier, which is that, you know, failure and mistakes and challenge are opportunities for growth. They are not opportunities for self-criticism or self-deprecation. I think it’s important to have a healthy amount of self-criticism so that you can look at yourself objectively, or try to look at yourself objectively as often as possible. And you know, self-deprecation is an amazing form of humor. But ultimately, if we are afraid of failure and mistakes and challenge, then we’re afraid of growth.

And we have to change our mindset actively to embracing challenge and failure is something that makes us better rather than something that brings us down. And the sooner that we do that, the sooner that you can realign yourself with a path of positive growth. And that’s something that I work on with my patients all the time. And when they grasp it, that is when I see that the most dramatic that changes in their lives start to really take hold. And with that immediate, you know, I think it’s also important to know that practice makes perfect. If you’ve been practicing being stressed out for years, chances are if you change your habits for a couple days or a month, you’re not going to fix everything, it’s going to take time. And it’s important to be patient and compassionate with yourself and understand that these changes don’t happen overnight.

There are certain things that can accelerate the process like Apollo or like psychedelic medicines. But in general, these changes require investment and effort and practice, just like the practice we put into being stressed out. And so by focusing on embracing challenge and embracing mistakes and to learn from them and grow and also to embrace practicing things that we really value that are these positive, constructive coping strategies in our lives, including the way that we approach stress and challenge, then all these things gradually start to take hold. And over time, people do see dramatic benefit, but you have to know that you can get better. And most people do. And so it’s really about changing your mindset to understand that healing is possible and that healing comes from within. And that when we challenge ourselves and when we practice, that we maximize our potential to be the best people and the most healthy versions of ourselves that we can be.

Katie: What a perfect place to wrap up. And I do hope that you’ll take me up on a round two someday, especially as there’s so many exciting things going on in your field and with the potential legalization of these substances. So I’m really, really appreciative for all the work that you do and pushing this forward. And all of the research you’ve done and development of the Apollo. I’ll make sure, again, all those links are in the show notes so that you can find them and learn more, as well as some resources that you pass along Dr. David, for people who are interested in understanding psychedelics and all of these treatments on a deeper level. But I cannot thank you enough for your time. I know how busy you are. And I’m honored you took the time to be here today.

Dave: Thank you so much, Katie. And I’m honored to be here and I’m so grateful for you having me on the show. And I would love to come back on and talk more about these things as we get updates from these trials and from, you know, the new exciting technological developments that are coming our way.

Katie: Amazing. And, of course, thanks to all of you for listening and sharing one of your most valuable assets, your time, with both of us today. We’re so grateful that you did, and I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the “Wellness Mama Podcast.”

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.

Thanks to Our Sponsors

This episode is sponsored by Just Thrive Health probiotics. I found this company when searching for the most research backed and effective probiotic available and I was blown away at the difference in their products! They offer two cornerstone products that are both clinically studied and highly effective. The first is their probiotic, which has been clinically studied to help with leaky gut and to survive up to 1,000 times as much as other probiotics or the beneficial organisms in something like Greek yogurt for instance. The difference is, their spore-based strains work completely differently than other types of probiotics. Also, this probiotic is vegan, dairy free, histamine free, non-GMO, and is made WITHOUT Soy, dairy, sugar, salt, corn, tree nuts or gluten—so it’s safe for practically everyone…I even sprinkle it in my kids food and bake it in to products since it can survive at up to 400 degrees! Their probiotic contains a patented strain called Bacillus Indicus HU36®, which produces antioxidants in the digestive system – where they can be easily absorbed by body. Their other product is a K2-7, and this nutrient—you may have heard of it—is known as the “Activator X,” the super-nutrient that Weston A. Price—a dentist known primarily for his theories on the relationship between nutrition, good health, bone development and oral health. He found this prevalent in foods in the healthiest communities in the world. Their K2 is the only pharmaceutical grade, all-natural supplement with published safety studies. Like the probiotic, this is also, gluten, dairy, soy, nut and GMO free. Both are best taken with food so I keep both on the table. My dad has trouble remembering to take supplements so he taped them to the pepper shaker, which he uses daily, and they’re now on his daily list as well. Check them out at justthrivehealth.com/wellnessmama and use the code wellnessmama15 to save 15%!

This episode is brought to you by Four Sigmatic, creator of all things superfood mushrooms and founded by my favorite Finnish Fun guys. I love all of their products, and in fact, I’m sipping their Reishi hot cocoa as I record this. These superfood mushrooms are always a part of my daily routine with their coffee + lions mane or coffee + cordyceps in the morning for energy and focus without as much caffeine as coffee to their chaga and cordyceps in the afternoon for antioxidants and immunity and the Reishi elixir at night for improved sleep. They also just released skin care that so clean you not only can eat it…. But its encouraged. Their charcoal mask has activated charcoal to clarify, chaga and cacao for an antioxidant boost and other herbal and superfood ingredients. It’s so clean that it can literally be made into a cup of hot cocoa as well! Their superfood serum contains a blend of avocado and olive oils with Reishi and herbs for a hydrating skin boost. As a listener of this podcast, you can save 15% with the code wellness mama at https://foursigmatic.com/wellnessmama/.

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287: How to Create and Rekindle Passion & Libido in Relationships With Susan Brattonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/susan-bratton/ Mon, 23 Sep 2019 11:00:31 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=418773

Today we take a bit of detour from the usual topics to one that is deeply personal and probably not talked about enough. We’re discussing sex, libido, and intimacy, all rolled into one… and I think we all know this can be an interesting area to navigate post-motherhood!

If you don’t already know about my guest Susan Bratton, she has been called the “Dear Abby” of sex for her honest and fresh ideas about how to ignite passion and sexual fulfillment in relationships. We talk about why romance seems to die at a certain point, what you can do to revive it, why women and men are so different, and how women can learn to be more in touch with their bodies and even heal obstacles to intimacy. We also talk about how to give kids the best start when it’s time to start laying the foundation for understanding their own sexuality.

Susan is an amazing speaker and writer as well who has authored over 20 books, some of which I’ve linked to below. I appreciate Susan for her willingness to talk openly about such an important topic… that affects pretty much all of us!

Episode Highlights With Susan Bratton

  • Why sex drive has natural peaks and valleys, and how to know what’s “normal”
  • A key factor of low sex drive many people don’t suspect
  • How to become your own sexual health advocate when working with doctors
  • Ways to identify emotional obstacles to intimacy
  • The pros and cons of hormone replacement therapy, bio-identical hormones
  • Tips for becoming a confident, happy lover
  • Dealing with chronic pain or illness in the sexual realm
  • How to talk to your kids about sex in a healthy way (and without scarring them for life!
  • And more!

Resources We Mention

More From Wellness Mama

What did you think of Susan’s advice? Do you have anything to add? Please drop a comment below or leave a review on iTunes to let us know. We value knowing what you think and this helps other moms find the podcast as well.

Read Transcript

Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.

This podcast is brought to you by Four Sigmatic, a Finnish company bringing the everyday magic of mushrooms to our daily lives. If you visited my home, you’d notice my homemade coffee/tea bar in my kitchen. Above it hangs 8 wooden cups, called kuksas… one for each member of my family. These have become part of our family tradition as we often sip mushroom coffee or superfood elixers from them at breakfast or after dinner during family time. Wooden cup or not, I highly recommend all of the four stigmatic products and you’d also find every single one of them in my kitchen! Here’s how I incorporate them into my day: in the morning I will drink one of their mushroom coffee blends, the matcha, the coffee latte or mushroom mocha with chaga. Throughout the day I sip their chaga, cordyceps or lions mane elixirs on their own since these are all caffeine free but have a host of benefits due including a major boost of antioxidants. Nighttime means their calming turmeric tea or Reishi elixir with a splash of macadamia milk. Mom tip: I also always keep their activated charcoal lemonade on hand for the first sign for a stomach bug… my kids love it and charcoal always seems to help. As a listener of this podcast, you can save 15% with the code wellness mama at foursigmatic.com/wellnessmama

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Katie: Hello, and welcome to “The Wellness Mama Podcast.” I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com. And today’s episode, may be one you don’t want your little ones listening to, so if you are a mom or a driving in the car with little ones, you might wanna listen to this one sometime when your kids are not in the same room, unless sex is a topic you’ve already talked to them quite a bit about. Because I am here with Susan Bratton, who is considered a champion and advocate for all who desire more passionate relationships and she’s considered a sexpert. She’s been called the Dear Abby of sex with her fresh approach and original ideas that have helped millions of people of all ages to transform sex into passion. She’s been married to her husband, Tim, since 1993. But we hear a little bit about their story today and that it wasn’t always just sunshine and rainbows.

She’s an author, an award-winning speaker, and a serial entrepreneur, whose passion is to help couples all around the world. With her husband, she is CEO and co-founder of Personal Life Media. And she’s authored 20 books, including, “Relationship Magic,” “The Passion Patch,” and “30 Romance Tricks That Work Like Magic,” as well as her international best-seller, “Sexual Soulmates.” And in this episode, we go deep on things like why intimacy seems to die at a certain point in marriage and what you can do to revive it, why women and men are so different when it comes to intimacy, and how women can learn to be more in touch with their bodies in a way that’s really sexually satisfying. So, buckle your seatbelts. This is a fun one. But, again, maybe not one for little children’s ears.

Susan, welcome. And thanks for being here.

Susan: Oh, Katie, It’s so lovely to have the opportunity to share a conversation that we have with others. You’re always a joy to me. And thank you so much for the conversation around our sexuality and how it manifests over the different life stages we have, as a woman. I know that’s a big part of what we wanna cover today. So, thank you.

Katie: Absolutely. And I’m so excited to jump into this with you because, not only are you a friend and an expert on this, I think this is a topic that doesn’t get talked about enough. We’re pretty comfortable talking about all the other health topics. But I feel like this is really an important aspect of health that doesn’t get talked about even sometimes among close friends, and one that can be so helpful if we have the conversation in a constructive way. So, if you’re willing to get a little vulnerable, at first, I know from knowing you that you have a pretty amazing story when it comes to yourself with your husband. So, if you don’t mind, can we start there?

Susan: Of course. Yeah, well, I’m a sexpert. And that is a funny thing to be. And I’ve really had to grow into it because it takes a lot of courage to be a sexpert because people are really triggered by conversations about sex. And that comes mostly from people’s shame and traumas that have happened to them, and their parents never taught them much about sex. Their parents never were very intimate together, weren’t very touchy or lovey. Many people feel like they came from what would almost be called a sex-starved environment. And then they get out in the world and things happen. You know, we get abused or we get shamed. We date and things happen. Maybe we have unplanned pregnancies or we contract an STI or, you know, it’s scary. We’re taught to be almost afraid, “Don’t get pregnant. Don’t get an STI.” But nobody ever tells us about how to make love, how to connect, how to keep, you know, your marriage bed in a really happy place. And so, we have a longing and a fear around sex. And many, many people, they feel like they’re not enough or they have body shame issues, or they don’t think they look pretty down there. There’s just so much many things that can get in the way of having that deep, connected, loving, passionate relationship with your partner.

And I think, for me, it started… Gosh, I just remembered this, I think the catalyzing moment where I…and the very beginning of what happened to turn me from a successful Silicon Valley Executive into a sexpert, was the day I was standing outside on the front step of my Silicon Valley mansion, having had incredible financial success and entrepreneurial success in business. And there I was, standing there with my little girl, and she was six years old. And she was rubbing her little blanky on her lip. She liked to take the little satin edge of her blanky and rub it on her lip when she was nervous. I could always tell when she was… It was her little, like, poker tell when she was nervous. She was rubbing it on her lip. And my husband was in his SUV, was all packed up, and he was gonna drive down the driveway, and she said, “Daddy, are you still gonna be my daddy?”

Like, oh, and I mean, I tell you that right now, and it literally, like, my whole chest gets coated in upset feeling from thinking that I was on the edge of ruining my little girl’s life and losing my husband because we had grown apart in the last 11 years. The first 11 years of our marriage, we had stopped being intimate. I didn’t really want him. I wanted to want him, but I didn’t want him. He was so mad at me because I didn’t really like to have sex with him anymore. And he was very emotionally checked out. And he was gonna drive away and go to a hotel, and we were gonna proceed with a divorce. And I thought, “What am I doing, man? How did I get here? How did I get here? This is not right. I don’t want this to happen.” I loved him, I just didn’t want him. And if I only knew what I know now, I could have really prevented it from happening. Really, my whole career, the last 15 years, have been devoted to helping couples not get to the point that I got to that day where he was about to drive down the driveway and out of my life, and I was gonna ruin my daughter’s childhood.

And we just didn’t know what we didn’t know. We said, “All right, let’s not do it. Park the car, don’t drive away. We can’t do this.” And we started to go to therapy. And then we went to sex workshops, talk about edgy. I would have a meltdown in the car on every trip to a workshop. We did these human awareness institute workshops, and ecstatic loving workshops, and orgasmic meditation workshops. And we really wanted to try to figure out how to rekindle our relationship in the bedroom because we were great friends, we were great parents, we had an incredible life together, but we were living as brother and sister. And really what had happened was I had sex with my husband for a decade, and I never had a climax during intercourse. And if you hear about this thing called… Have you ever heard of this thing called the orgasm gap? Have you heard that saying, or phrase, or concept?

Katie: I’ve heard the term, but I’m not totally familiar with the meaning.

Susan: The orgasm gap is that over 90% of the time, the masculine, if you will, the penis owner, he has a climax from intercourse, but less than half the time some women are able to have an orgasm from intercourse. So, you go for a decade having intercourse with your partner and never having experienced, you know, a climax from it. And how long do you wanna do that? Like, my limit was 11 years. I didn’t wanna do it anymore. It wasn’t good for me. It was great for him. He didn’t understand why I didn’t want to have sex. And I didn’t know what I didn’t know. So, we said, “Well, let’s figure it out. Let’s learn.” Because what I’ve realized since then is that orgasm is a learned skill. So many women are ashamed or they feel not enough because they can’t have an orgasm or they’re not sure if they’re having one, or they have one but only in a certain way, or only with their vibrator, or only once in a while. It’s elusive. And what I’ve come to learn through all of the work that I’ve done is that all you have to do is know how to do it and someone just has to teach you how.

And so, I’ve devoted the last decade of my life to teaching women and their partners, how to have, not only one kind of orgasm, but 15 different kinds. Our bodies have unlimited orgasmic potential, and so do our partners. Men leave a lot of pleasure on the table. They don’t seem to be as upset about it. They seem to be happy with their kind of go-to strategy. But us women, we have so many ways we can experience orgasmic bliss with our partner. And nobody teaches us how and you certainly won’t see it on pornography. I am a very, very, very vocal detractor of pornography. I think it’s degrading to women. It doesn’t teach the right things. It’s not emotionally connected. And so, I really like to show people, give them techniques and ideas about, “Okay. Here’s what you actually need to do to achieve that pleasure.

You just didn’t know that you were missing some of these parts of the arousal experience and you weren’t quite sure how your genitals worked.” So, what I do is I just teach people all these different ways to do what I call bridging the orgasm gap or I like to call it “Crossing the gasm.” You know, because we can have as many orgasms as our partners if we just know how to do it. But we just need to learn that there are people out there like me that can teach these things. And I give away most of this stuff for free. I love to give, give, give, give, give, give, give and do very well, just giving away lots of techniques. And so, that’s what happened for us, but there was another issue, too.

And that is that, when I was young, I was sexually abused by my stepfather. And then when the first time that I lost my virginity, not the first time, the only time, the first time I had sex and lost my virginity, I got pregnant. And it was very, very… I was 19 years old and I had an abortion. And I knew that was the right thing for me, at that time, but I had a lot of loss and sadness over that. And then I had a time when I dated a boy and he almost raped me., and I felt very afraid of men. And I had a boyfriend one time who I had sex with and he kicked me out of bed and said, “Get your clothes and go home. I’m never going to call you again. You’re no good in bed.” Oh my God, I mean, I had so many wounds that I was carrying around, that even when I married my husband and I loved him, and I loved our lovemaking, it was so repetitive. And I wasn’t really having a great experience with it, that when the new relationship energy wore off, and I had all that kind of, like, trauma I was carrying around, that between all the trauma I’d experienced and the lack of orgasmic pleasure I was having in my marriage, I just didn’t wanna have sex anymore.

So, we went to therapy and he went with me, and we unwound all the trauma, I had a great therapist, and my husband was by my side every step of the way. And I was able to come to compassion about what happened and about my perpetrator, my stepfather, and I felt forgiveness for him, and I let it go. And I moved beyond it, instead of stuffing it. And I learned skills from these workshops. And all of a sudden my sex life with my husband became alive and on fire. And I found my feminine fire. I was having incredible pleasure with my husband and I. We just thought, “Oh my gosh, why doesn’t anybody teach these things. All our friends are dropping like flies. They’re all getting divorced. And it’s not the finances, it’s the sex. It’s the lack of good sex.” He’s gonna go get another younger girlfriend and she’s gonna get just as bored with him. And he’s gonna have multiple divorces and re-marriages because they didn’t know what they were doing because there’s no place you can learn to have heart connected, passionate lovemaking.

So, that’s how I ended up here, 15 years later, as the trusted hot sex advisor to millions, married 26 years, never more in love, never had better sex, totally love my husband. And I teach people how to find that themselves, how to understand the anatomy, and arousal, and libido, and desire, and sexual health and it is the most rewarding thing. You know, your greatest wound becomes your greatest gift.

Katie: Yeah. Absolutely. And that’s interesting that you said it was about 11 years in for you guys. It seems like there is something between that 10 to 15-year mark of marriage where… I hear this story from a lot of people from a lot of friends, that there seems to be a change that happens for a lot of people, at that point. Why do you think that is? Do you think it’s just, like, for you, all those years of it not being what it could have been and getting disillusioned? Are there other factors that come into play in that time period or why does it seem like so many people may be hit that at the same time?

Susan: Well, there are a couple of stages of abject boredom and sexual dissatisfaction. It sounds horrible, doesn’t it? Yeah. The first one is about four months to four years into the relationship, the new relationship energy wears off. And then there’s that seven-year Itch, which some of us can keep going until about 10 years, but it’s really boredom. It’s just that orgasm gap thing where it feels great to him, so he wants to keep doing it. But you get bored out of your mind and you need more… As the female, you need more seduction. You need to be moved towards your pleasure. You need more arousal. You need to feel desire. You also simply get bored and you need just more excitement. You need it to be fun. It ends up being rather perfunctory, after a while, if you’re not learning new things together. Really, the interesting thing about libido is that it is your general health. And as you age, your gut microbiome gets messed up, you get more toxins in, your hormones start to decline. All those things are actually… You know, you’re not producing as much serotonin in the gut. You’re not producing as many hormones. If you’ve been on birth control pills, that’s tamped it down. You know, there’s just a lot of factors at a physical level that happens, and then desire at an emotional level.

You maybe have frustrations with your partner, or withholds, or you’re not really being honest, or they’ve maybe, you know, gotten a potbelly, or they’re not grooming themselves like they used to, or they’re dressing sloppy, or things like that, that make you less…you desire them less. So you’ve got kids and you’re tired. And your husband’s a little, like, I don’t know, rough around the edges. You know, he’s not showing up for you the way he did when you first got together. He’s not romancing you. Sure, you might have date nights, but he’s not putting the effort in on the romance side of things. You know, when was the last time he brought you flowers or, you know, things like that.

And so, that kind of pulls down your desire. And then because he doesn’t understand how to arouse a woman, because testosterone starts out already. You know, he wakes up horny, and you don’t. He’s got this morning wood and he would just be happy to have sex every morning, just intercourse. It would be great for him and he’d go on his merry way, but that’s not really what women want. We wake up in the morning, gaving to get the kids off to school, and a million things to do. And quickies, honestly, I am against the quickie. I stand for no quickies because our genitals, our female genital are urogenital structure. We have as much erectile tissue inside us, as our partners do on the outside. If you think about it, he’s an outie and we’re an innie. And he gets almost instantly aroused because the blood flows into his penis and he gets that erection, so his visual signal is, “I’m ready to go.” And that’s the thing with testosterone, it’s full speed ahead. It thinks it knows what it’s doing. It’s overly confident. It has more certainty. That’s why it never asks for directions, right? Even when it’s lost, it just thinks it knows. It’s overconfident. It’s cock shore, right? And estrogen is more eyes on everything. It sees flaws. It has more anxiety, naturally. It has trouble getting in its body. It’s in its head. And it’s bothered by things, that the room is too cold, his beard is scratchy, the sheets aren’t snug on the bed, the lighting is too bright, the music isn’t right or it’s too loud. You know, we notice everything. And so, we have a harder time settling in. It takes us longer to get aroused. Our husband doesn’t realize this because he’s full steam ahead. And he’s kind of immune to the little things in the room that take us out of our body and we notice.

And so, we get this disconnect, where over the years, you haven’t taken, or insisted upon, or known to make sure that you get enough physical stimulation, that you take a slow arousal and let your body, and let your desire come to you. We don’t start out horny. We need to be turned on. We need to give ourselves the opportunity to first relax, which is the beginning of arousal. And then to build our turn on and our engorgement, which is the blood flow to our genitals. We need to kiss and be held, and stroked, and loved first before our husband grabs our breasts or grabs our Yoni. That’s not right for us. But he doesn’t know because the first thing he wants you to do is grab his manhood. That makes him feel calm. And like, “Okay. This is good for me. I’m being touched where I wanna be touched.” If he grabs you that way, it contracts you. It’s not right for the woman. And so, most husbands don’t know these things. And so, you go on for a decade, getting manhandled by a guy, you know, who thinks he’s better than he is. Eighty-percent of men, think they’re above average in bed. Okay. That math doesn’t compute. So, if you don’t have someone showing you how to turn on slowly and giving you the chance to do that, how many times are you gonna wanna have sex? You’re gonna want to stop that after a while. And that’s what I think happens to a lot of marriages. And the fun goes away. You’re not learning new things together. And I’d love to tell you more about that, too, the way to kind of, like, rekindle it, if you will.

Katie: So, I definitely do wanna jump into how ways you can try new things and rekindle in the bedroom. But first, I just wanna drive home a point. You mentioned that, for you in that phase, you had trouble reaching climax from intercourse alone. And I think that this is probably a pretty common thing for women, but it’s not one that’s talked about very often. And I wonder if maybe women feel like alone or, like, something’s wrong with them when they’re not able to that because it’s a common theme, that they probably think that’s something normal to happen. So, I’m curious, is that common for women to have difficulty with that? And if so, are there ways to learn that or to make it still very pleasurable, even if that’s not the case?

Susan: Yes. Most women don’t orgasm from intercourse, only the lucky ones. It’s actually a learned skill. So, we are biologically wired to learn how to make babies. That’s slot A into tab B. And that works pretty well without anybody teaching us what to do. But what we’re not taught and isn’t easy to understand or doesn’t come naturally to us is having orgasms. There are 16 types of female orgasm by my count right now. And what I would call orgasms from intercourse or penetration orgasms, or PIV, is what a lot of sexperts call it, penis-in-vagina orgasms. I don’t like that one as much. That is one of the most learned types of orgasms that there are. And the best way to do it… Well, I’ll tell you that I have a series about how to do it. I explain all of the details of exactly what to do in a series of YouTube videos on my Better Lover YouTube channel. So, I can’t get into all of it on this podcast because there’s a lot of things because it’s different things for different women. But generally, the biggest issue is two things.

The first is lack of proper genital engorgement, which means, not enough time with getting your genitals massaged, and/or pleasured prior to intercourse. And then the second thing is lack of his skill in the thrusting and lovemaking side of things. He will tend to go immediately inside you. You won’t have enough engorgement. You won’t have enough blood flow. You won’t have enough turn on. You won’t have enough lubrication. And he’ll go too fast, he’ll go right in. And then he’ll go in and out, kind of like the piston in a car motor, rather than the teasing, short, shallow strokes, combined with longer, slower strokes, hip drops and pelvic fluidity instead of a stiff pelvis. He’ll do too much, too hard. He won’t give you breaks. He’s not really conscious of what his penis is doing inside your vagina. You’re kind of just holding on, if you will, unable to relax. There’s probably a lot of vaginal rigidity. There’s probably a lot of missing terms of endearment, and verbal appreciation, and encouragement. There’s probably lack of kissing and full-body touch, and things like that. The positions may not be comfortable for you. It might be that you’re rushing into it and you’re not propped up with pillows. The environment might not be right. You might not have enough application of good organic nut oil. I like coconut oil or avocado oil, organic oil added to the situation so that you’ve got a good glide. There’s just probably a lot of components missing that are preventing you as the woman from really surrendering to your pleasure and it feeling very good to you. But I can tell you that, if you lay in all of these types of things… And there’s nothing wrong with the desire for your husband, you love him, you’re not mad at him. He’s meeting you’re outside of the bedroom relationship values, that the two of you can learn how to make love in a way that is much more orgasmically satisfying for her and not just him.

Katie: That makes perfect sense. Yeah. So, what are some of the ways…? I’d love to hear both from your experience and now what you teach, just a few more ways that people can rekindle that. You gave some great suggestions on how to make sure it’s beneficial for both. But when people hit that time, where like that seven-year itch you mentioned, what are some ways to rekindle that and to make things feel alive again for couples?

Susan: The best way is to schedule erotic playdates. So, I didn’t say schedule sex because that’s one more thing to do, which is the last thing we wellness mamas need, right? The last thing we need as one more thing to do, “Service, my husband, boring.” And not to have any lovemaking out of shame, or mercy, or feeling like you have to, or duty, or anything like that, instead, scheduling erotic playdates where you learn new things together. Because your old dog needs to learn some new tricks. But because he’s testosterone dominant, he thinks he knows everything and he’s great in bed. So, you can’t tell him he’s not, but you can tell him, “Let’s try some new things.” And new things might be, “Let’s do a little role play.” Maybe it’s, you know, “Let’s play doctor and nurse,” and I’m gonna wear some little nurse outfit that’s super cute because that can be fun for some women. They like to dress up in sexy things and that makes you feel sexier. Or, “Let’s try a new position that we’ve never tried,” or, “Let’s make love in a different place,” maybe out in the backyard or something that feels a little naughty like, “The kids are all gone, let’s try the dining room table.” That can be really fun. Or, “Let’s learn a new skill together.” So, maybe an expanded orgasm practice or something like that. There are so many different ways that you can think about learning new things together. And the couple that plays together, stays together, especially in the bedroom. So, moving from, we’re having sex to we’re having erotic playdates, really gets you back into that new relationship energy that’s gone missing. And it helps your guy learn some new techniques that will make sex better for you. So, it’s a really good kind of ninja female technique that invites new learning without any blame game.

Katie: Another great tip. And I’m curious, though, I think that there’s probably another side to this as well, which is that whether it be through childbirth or, for my own experience, when I had Hashimoto and was really in the thick of it. Those things can really kind of tank your libido. And I know that there’s… I’ve talked on this podcast before a lot about that testing that needs to be done and definitely getting thyroid checked, and things like that, the physical side of libido. But what about for women who don’t even have, maybe, that desire to really do that? They don’t feel like their libido is there at all.

Susan: Yeah. Libido, desire, and arousal, they’re the three interconnecting circles. I like to think about it as the three circles. It’s called a Venn diagram, technically, the three circles, and then in the middle is a little heart, where all of that connects. Libido is, you’re feeling your physical body and its interest in making love. And when you’re ill, your vitality is diminished, and your sexual vitality is the same as your life vitality. You can’t feel passion for your sex life if you don’t feel passion for your general life. So, anything that’s essentially crunching down your physical vitality is also dampening your sexual vitality. So, ground zero for you is your gut, getting your gut moving, making sure your microbiome is working, making sure you’re pooing really easily and well every day, making sure you’re well-hydrated, making sure that your vaginal microbiome is in good condition. You know, a lot of women suffer from everything from like, and sclerosis to yeast infections to bacterial vaginosis to cystitis and UTIs and all of those kinds of things. We’re very delicate, our vulva region, our urogenital complex is very delicate. And so, we have to be in good health to have a libido. Your heart is beating, your libido is a beating heart too. And then desire is, are you in good shape with your partner? Are there any withholds, anything you’re mad about? That needs to get fixed before you can want them again. If you’re mad at them, you don’t want them. And then the arousal pieces, what I was talking about, giving yourself enough time to get fully engorged and turned on, and use good lube and, you know, learn new things, and actually learn some techniques, and things like that, that’s like the care and feeding of your intimate life.

And so, really, those three things have to come together to feel good. There’s another interesting piece that is, vaginal restoration. For a lot of women, after having a child, if they’ve had a severe scar or an episiotomy, some women get fistulas or varosoles, or things like that. They’ve had wounding or damage from a bicycle or horseback riding, or they’re starting to have incontinence, or they feel vaginal laxity, lack of tone. All of these things affect the vast amount of us females. And there are many, what I would call, vaginal restoration technologies coming to the fore now that are available to us, that are not surgical in nature. They’re not vaginoplasty or labiaplasty. They are almost what you would call lunch break treatments. Using CO2 lasers and RF devices intravaginally, up inside the vagina, that are similar to what you would do if you were having Fraxel or BBL, or an IPL or any of those kinds of things on your face, any kind of like… You know, you talk about photobiomodulation a lot on your show. So, you know, you’re using essentially, light to stimulate new growth. So, the laser is light that does subcutaneous damage to your vaginal mucosa, which is hormesis, which creates new growth in the tissue and re-colleganate the tissue and tightens and tones the vaginal canal, and helps stimulate the musculature to rejuvenate the musculature tissue to help with incontinence. And then there’s also RF devices on the outer labia and inner labia that can be done for older women who are getting a lot of loss of tone. And then there’s, of course, the O-Shot. Have you ever heard about the O-Shot?

Katie: I have. And I actually had someone who does it on the podcast a while back, and I have actually tried it myself. But please explain what it is for anyone who hasn’t tried it.

Susan: Oh, great. Who did you have on? Robin?

Katie: No. I had someone from GAINSWave down in South Florida.

Susan: Oh, great. Yeah. From GAINSWave. Right. So, that’s what you do. You get a GAINSave for your husband and a P-Shot, and use a vacuum erection device to reverse his natural atrophy because as men age, their penises shrink, they atrophy. We’re shriveling up as we age. And so, to reverse the natural atrophy, especially, if there’s been any health issues, you use the GAINSWave to knock the plaque off and then you get the blood flow again. And then you use the penis pump to open and pull that tunica albuginea up so that the chambers can fill with more blood and the P-Shot does that restoration of the tissue. It’s the same with the female, only, when we shrink, we get bigger, more open. Our vaginas get lax, they lose tone. So, his penis shrinks as your vagina gets bigger. It’s the cruelest cut, Katie.

And so, the O-Shot is actually PRP, platelet rich plasma from your own blood, same as the P-Shot for him, spun in a centrifuge and then the white blood cells are taken off, and the red blood cells are taken off, and you’re left with this healing broth, this golden broth of platelet rich plasma that has cytokines and healing factors that get injected. It doesn’t hurt. You’re numbed, injected into your clitoral structure, your clitoral structure being erectile tissue, and your urethral structure, which is your G-spot… It’s not a spot. It’s an area. And it’s actually a tube of erectile tissue that surrounds your urethra canal, which is where the urine flows out. Those structures, you inject with this PRP, and it rejuvenates that tissue. It regrows new clitoral tissue because over time we get sensation loss. By the time you’re 50, you’ve probably had 20% or 30% sensation loss from when you were 30 years old. It’s just a natural part of aging. But now, we have these regenerative therapies that we can use to bring back full function to our genital system from injury, childbirth, trauma, and aging. And they work really, really well.

Katie: Yeah. That’s super fascinating. And I’ve noticed even just, in my own life, like you said, that whole body approach, all of those things have to be in line. I don’t think maybe, for a lot of people, especially, people my age, those things may not even be necessary yet. But I do know this, for sure, when I eat clean, and I get enough sunshine, and I get enough movement, and I get enough sleep, those things all line up better, and my libido is definitely stronger. So, I think that’s really sage advice to really focus on all of those factors and, like any aspects of health, not look at libido as a thing in isolation, but look at it as part of your overall health. And that makes perfect sense.

Susan: Yep. It is just part of our life force.

This podcast is brought to you by Four Sigmatic, a Finnish company bringing the everyday magic of mushrooms to our daily lives. If you visited my home, you’d notice my homemade coffee/tea bar in my kitchen. Above it hangs 8 wooden cups, called kuksas… one for each member of my family. These have become part of our family tradition as we often sip mushroom coffee or superfood elixers from them at breakfast or after dinner during family time. Wooden cup or not, I highly recommend all of the four stigmatic products and you’d also find every single one of them in my kitchen! Here’s how I incorporate them into my day: in the morning I will drink one of their mushroom coffee blends, the matcha, the coffee latte or mushroom mocha with chaga. Throughout the day I sip their chaga, cordyceps or lions mane elixirs on their own since these are all caffeine free but have a host of benefits due including a major boost of antioxidants. Nighttime means their calming turmeric tea or Reishi elixir with a splash of macadamia milk. Mom tip: I also always keep their activated charcoal lemonade on hand for the first sign for a stomach bug… my kids love it and charcoal always seems to help. As a listener of this podcast, you can save 15% with the code wellness mama at foursigmatic.com/wellnessmama

This episode is brought to you by SteadyMD, my family’s source for concierge medicine and our primary care doctors. Once something only available to the ultra wealthy, concierge medicine is now available to all of us thanks to SteadyMD. This means my family is connected with a highly qualified MD certified in functional medicine and who knows our medical history, the supplements we take, our preferences for medical treatments and who is available anytime we need her via text, video chat, or phone call. She’s been there when I was trying to decide if I needed to take a kid in for stitches or a sore throat, she’s looked at my kids ears remotely via digital otoscope that I connect to my phone and she manages and advises based on regular labs. I’ve always said that your doctor should be your partner in managing your health and should listen and take into account your symptoms, feelings and preferences and with SteadyMD, that absolutely happens. I feel supported, heard and confident knowing that I have one of the top doctors in the country available when I need her. With her help and thanks to diet and lifestyle changes in the past few years, I’ve been able to confirm that I no longer have any of the symptoms or lab markers of Hashimotos and am completely in remission! I truly can’t speak highly enough about steadymd and hope you’ll check them out. Head to steadyMD.com/wellnessmama to learn more and to take a quick quiz to see which doctor you match with.

Katie: I also wanna circle back and go a little deeper on the trauma aspect because I really appreciate you sharing so openly about that and about the pain in your past. And I know that, statistically, a lot of women have some form of sexual trauma in their past. I do have sexual trauma from when I was in high school. And I this is a very common thing. I have many, many friends who have been through some type of sexual trauma. And I know that that also may be a very personalized thing. And you mentioned therapy and things that helps you. But are there some general steps if someone has that in their past and is maybe willing to face it, that are a good starting point?

Susan: Yes. First of all, know that trauma has happened to probably 60% of men and women. Men are definitely equally traumatized. And trauma comes in many forms. It can come from someone doing something to you or shaming you. Trauma can come from lack of knowledge and the fear that comes from not knowing. It can come from health procedures, and not even necessarily gynecological procedures, but just general health procedures, where people are touching your body in ways that you did not give them permission to. It can come from, obviously, the dating world and the shame of things that happen there, whether it’s STIs or unwanted pregnancies, or mean people, or aggressive people. There are so many ways that trauma can happen.

And what I can tell you is a couple of things. The first is that, your partner is your greatest healer, that most people heal their traumas together as a couple. The second thing that I can tell you is that trauma is not just rational and that it’s primarily in your body, not as much in your mind… It’s in your mind, it’s in your psyche. You can talk about it. You can talk therapy out of some of it, but most of it is actually caught in your enteric nervous system. So, we hold a lot of our sexual wounding in our pelvic area, in our sacral chakra, in our womb, in our tissue, all that tissue that we have in us, in our pelvic area. And it needs to actually be touched to be released. That’s why G-spot massage is one of the most common somatic healing technologies, that we use body healing technologies when our partner can give us a general massage and stroke that G area right inside the vagina, right on the roof of the vaginal canal, right up in the top of the cave. It likes pressure and it needs release.

For many women, their vagina is very rigid and hard because it’s been traumatized and it’s kind of locked down. Their pelvis is locked down or they’re having painful sex. And every time they think about sex, it hurts before they even are entered. And all of this is just trauma waiting to be loved and released into and let go. So, there are things that trigger us. We get triggered. We feel unsafe. And that’s why having a lot of these kind of loving touch modalities are very important.

I also have a really nice series on recovering from sexual trauma on my YouTube channel with Arielle Giarretto. Arielle runs an organization called fullembodiment.org. And she is, to me, the preeminent sexual trauma healer in the world today. I have very good connections. And we did a series about releasing trauma, being the partner of someone who’s been traumatized, supporting your partner through healing. What somatic healing is, somatic healing modalities, how to release enteric upset and shame. And so, you know, we can’t go into all of it in a less than an hour of a podcast, but that’s a resource that I would send you to. It’s at betterlover.com. And you can just search trauma on my YouTube channel. And you’ll find a beautiful series that we did together on healing trauma together as a couple.

I mean, we went to therapy, but it was my husband that healed me, as he began to massage me and release all the things that I had withheld and buried in my womb. Sometimes things would erupt out of me like… It would sound like the Wicked Witch in the scary cottage of “Hansel and Gretel,” where I would go…and make all these weird sounds that just erupted out of me as he was stroking that G-spot area. Or I would squeal like a hyena or I would roar like a train was coming through the room. I mean, and I would cry. He would hold me after that massage. And I would cry, and cry, and release, and release. But he just held me in his safe masculine container. And he just let me let all that go. And as I let all that go, then I began to feel pleasure. And that was really what allowed me to begin to have those orgasms from intercourse because now I’d lost all that armoring that I’d had, all that emotional armoring that had shut me down, and locked me down, and I released it all. And I began to release and release, and then I could connect with them. And when we made love, I didn’t dissociate. I didn’t leave my body. He’s kept me, “Look me in the eyes, baby, I’m right here. Everything’s okay, I’ve got you. Do you need me to stop? Do you need me to slow down? Let’s take a break.” And he just healed me from all of the injustices that had happened to me in my lifetime.

And that’s how I got from shut down, about to lose my marriage, to lose my wonderful husband and to ruin my daughter’s life, and my life, and to be alone, to start over, and to not have that happen, and to go on, to heal, and to go into the upward pleasure spiral where lovemaking just got better and better. And we so changed that we wanted to bring this change to other people. We wanted to make all this information available to everyone in the world who could find us. That’s the beauty of the internet. I mean, I’m not able to put these things on Facebook because Facebook, they’re just, like, nothing about sexuality. Even sexual health, no, no, no, nothing, nothing, nothing. It’s actually hard to find this information. But YouTube luckily lets me keep a channel that I can teach people things. And my sexual vitality summit is available to people for free because the healing is out there. The knowledge is around. And I just really appreciate you giving me the time to come on to “Wellness Mama” and touch the people in your world with the possibility of healing, and connection, and pleasure.

Katie: I’ll make sure we find those links as well and put them in the show notes at wellnessmama.fm. So, if you are driving or exercising, don’t worry about trying to write that down or keep it in your phone. Those will all be at wellnessmama.fm, so you can find Susan more. Before we wrap up, there’s another topic that is just timely for me right now as I’m under a month away from having a teenager myself is just the thought of how do we hopefully teach our children a healthy and positive attitude when it comes to sex? Because I think a lot of people… Like, I know I went into marriage with a lot of interesting attitudes about sex, but in including ones I had to work through about all the early childhood ones about sex being bad. That was taught, you know, when you’re young and you’re not supposed to be quite having sex yet. Like, I had to work through that at marriage, once sex was wonderful and good. But do you have any tips, especially, for the moms listening, and especially for our daughters of how we can raise them with a healthy, and realistic, and wonderful attitude towards sex and toward their bodies?

Susan: Yes. And thank you so much for asking about that. I actually have quite a bit of knowledge and experience in how to talk to our children about sex. And just to give you some kind of highlights about the approach. Yeah. We are traumatized by people scaring us about sex, “Ooh, don’t get near any semen, it’s bad for you. You’ll get pregnant,” and you know, “You’re gonna get STIs and it’s dangerous.” Our heads are filled with all these negative things. And then we don’t have names for our genitals and we’re not taught our anatomy and, you know, everything is just the negative, negative, negative. And so, we have to teach ourselves.

So, the one thing I’ll tell you is that, forgive your parents for not teaching you. They didn’t have the tools. It wasn’t the time. And when they tried to, if they tried to, you probably gave them a big eye-roll, and it was hard for you to talk to them about it. So, forgive them and move on, and know that it’s actually your responsibility, just like personal growth is your responsibility, just like continuing to always work on your health and making sure you are saving money and, you know, you’re getting your exercise and eating your vegetables. Your job is to open and expand your sexual potential yourself. It’s not your parent’s job, so let that go. Because what I find is people hold a lot of bitterness about that with their parents. And that’s unnecessary, so forgive your parents.

The second thing is, children wanna know very early on what the anatomical parts are between boys and girls. And so, it’s very nice to tell them about, “This is called your vulva. These are your labia. You have inner and outer labia. You have something called a vaginal canal. You have something called a clitoral structure. A boy has a penis. He has testicles. They’re in a sack called a scrotum. You know, he has something inside called a prostate. There are lots of interesting parts, but we all started out the same. We all started in the womb as little girls, but then about 8 to 16 weeks during gestation, half of us became boys, girls have innies and boys have outies. They fit together to make a baby.” What you do is you start with the simple things,”This is called your vulva. You have different parts. Boys is called a penis. He has different parts.” And then you layer in extra pieces, “And then here’s how babies are made. The penis goes inside the vagina and something called semen comes out that has sperm inside it, that fertilize a little egg inside the girl, that grows inside, her belly gets big, it comes out her vagina, and that’s how you get a baby.” Right.

So, you teach them those kinds of things. And then later you talk about, “Sex is a beautiful thing between adults. It’s something that you share. It can be a really sweet emotional connection. It’s like your best friend with benefits.” So, you know, you start talking about the emotional aspects. And then you start saying, “You always wanna honor that you should only do what you wanna do. You’re in charge of your own sex life. You never do anything you don’t wanna do. If someone’s pressuring you, here’s what you do, you call me or you leave immediately. No one owns your body, but you.” You do the body safety pieces. And then as they start to get a little older, you say, “There are some things you have to watch out for in sex. You wanna be careful not to get pregnant. When you’re ready, we’ll talk about contraceptives. I recommend non-hormonal contraceptives. I’ll teach you all about that when we’re ready. And we’ll also talk about safe sex and setting your boundaries, and having agreements about what you’re willing to do and what you’re not willing to do. And I want you to feel comfortable talking about sex. And then, you know, you go into more and more details about all these things. And what I find is that, over the years, if what you do is you just drip, drip, drip, you know that…

What’s that phrase about how the river always finds its way? It goes under, it goes around, it goes over, drips, drips, drips to find its way to the ocean, that’s what you’re doing with your child. You’re taking them on a journey, one drop at a time, so that… Their sexuality isn’t something where you sit down and have the talk, you’ve just always been having those conversations with them. You’re just layering knowledge. And then you also get some good books and you put those books in your family library, and you say, “I bought some books about human sexuality. There is a resource for you. Anytime that you’re curious, you can always ask me, but you can always refer to books as well. And they’re there when you’re ready.” And then the kids can go take them and look at them when they’re ready, when they have the curiosity in the knowledge. So, I think the combination of always layering in more info…

And when your kids are teenagers, when you’re driving them someplace, just drop one little thing, and then be done. Let it soak in for them and don’t expect to have a conversation about it. Just give them a little interesting fact, without them having to talk to you back about it. So, it’s not a two-way conversation unless they wanna make it that way. That’s also good advice for how you talk to teenagers who are resistant to everything you say because that’s their natural process of individuation. It has nothing to do with you. That’s how the individuate. So they have to. They’re compelled biologically to negate what whatever you say. That’s just them growing up, so you can’t take it personally. So, those are some of my little tips and techniques about that.

Katie: Those are great. And I can’t believe our time has already flown by so quickly. But a couple of quick things I love to ask at the end, the first, is there a book or books that have really impacted your life. If so, what they are and why?

Susan: I would highly recommend the “Women’s Anatomy of Arousal” by Sherry Winston. Sherry is one of my mentors. And she talks a lot about that piece that I want all women to know more, which is how we experience arousal as different than the masculine, the pussycats versus the puppy dogs. And learning about that, a “Woman’s Anatomy of Arousal” by Sherry Winston is an amazing book.

Katie: I will make sure that is linked in the show notes as well. And any parting advice you wanna leave to all the women listening today?

Susan: Yes. Demand the time that you need and the sensation that your body craves in the moment when you have connection with your partner. Stop doing what you think you’re supposed to do and listen to your body, and clue your partner in about what she needs and honor your Yoni.

Katie: Awesome. And Susan, you mentioned quite a few of your resources, but I’ll make sure those are all again linked in the show notes at wellnessmama.fm. So, anyone listening, you guys can find Susan, and continue to learn from her. But thank you so much for being here today and sharing your story so vulnerably and openly, and sharing what you’ve learned with us today.

Susan: Thanks, Katie. My pleasure.

Katie: And thanks as always to all of you for listening and for sharing your valuable asset, your time, with both of us. We’re so grateful that you did. And I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of “The Wellness Mama Podcast.”

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.

Thanks to Our Sponsors

This episode is brought to you by SteadyMD, my family’s source for concierge medicine and our primary care doctors. Once something only available to the ultra wealthy, concierge medicine is now available to all of us thanks to SteadyMD. This means my family is connected with a highly qualified MD certified in functional medicine and who knows our medical history, the supplements we take, our preferences for medical treatments and who is available anytime we need her via text, video chat, or phone call. She’s been there when I was trying to decide if I needed to take a kid in for stitches or a sore throat, she’s looked at my kids ears remotely via digital otoscope that I connect to my phone and she manages and advises based on regular labs. I’ve always said that your doctor should be your partner in managing your health and should listen and take into account your symptoms, feelings and preferences and with SteadyMD, that absolutely happens. I feel supported, heard and confident knowing that I have one of the top doctors in the country available when I need her. With her help and thanks to diet and lifestyle changes in the past few years, I’ve been able to confirm that I no longer have any of the symptoms or lab markers of Hashimotos and am completely in remission! I truly can’t speak highly enough about SteadyMD and hope you’ll check them out. Head to steadyMD.com/wellnessmama to learn more and to take a quick quiz to see which doctor you match with.

This episode is brought to you by Four Sigmatic, creator of all things superfood mushrooms and founded by my favorite Finnish Fun guys. I love all of their products, and in fact, I’m sipping their Reishi hot cocoa as I record this. These superfood mushrooms are always a part of my daily routine with their coffee + lions mane or coffee + cordyceps in the morning for energy and focus without as much caffeine as coffee to their chaga and cordyceps in the afternoon for antioxidants and immunity and the Reishi elixir at night for improved sleep. They also just released skin care that so clean you not only can eat it…. But it’s encouraged. Their charcoal mask has activated charcoal to clarify, chaga and cacao for an antioxidant boost and other herbal and superfood ingredients. It’s so clean that it can literally be made into a cup of hot cocoa as well! Their superfood serum contains a blend of avocado and olive oils with Reishi and herbs for a hydrating skin boost. As a listener of this podcast, you can save 15% with the code WELLNESSMAMA at https://foursigmatic.com/wellnessmama/

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286: Create a Dashboard for Your Life With Dan Pardi From Human OShttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/human-os/ Mon, 16 Sep 2019 11:00:57 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=418617

Dr. Dan Pardi is a researcher at Stanford University in California and at Leiden University in the Netherlands who specializes in studying lifestyle factors like sleep, exercise, and diet. He is the CEO of Human OS, an app designed to take a healthy lifestyle to the next level, hour by hour. This is not your typical health tracker. When I checked it out after meeting Dr. Dan at Paleo FX this year, I knew I had to share it with you!

Part of the reason Human OS succeeds is it operates on a behavior model called the Loop Model, which not only measures activity against your goals, but helps you tap into the “why” and the “how” to keep you motivated and overcoming obstacles. Human OS even takes into account the light (or lack of light) you’re exposed to during the day, memory retention, and other details other apps miss.

Episode Highlights With Human OS

  • How Human OS creates highly credible, easy to understand, referenced courses on health topics
  • Ways that light affects our bodies and the ideal pattern for exposure
  • Why friendship may be the #1 health hack
  • A simple way to manage stress better
  • Five key development objectives: brain development, mind development, wisdom development, personality development, and real world skill
  • Strategies for education in a fast-changing world
  • And more!

Resources We Mention

Did you enjoy this episode? Please drop a comment below or leave a review on iTunes to let us know. We value knowing what you think and this helps other moms find the podcast as well.

Read Transcript

Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.

This podcast is brought to you by Joovv. You’ve heard me talk about them before but their red light therapy or photobiomodulation lights are a part of my daily routine. Here’s why: There’s evidence that certain wavelengths of light are beneficial to the body in various ways. On a cellular level, they may help improve mitochondrial function and increase production of ATP, or cellular energy. This can manifest in clearer skin, more energy, quicker recovery and even increased hair growth. I use red light on my thyroid as part of my protocol along with a low inflammation diet and other lifestyle factors and am in complete remission of Hashimotos. Also, since I do spend careful and moderate time in the sun and don’t plan on giving that up anytime soon, I use red light to help protect my skin and guard against wrinkles. They now have two new innovations that make it even easier to get red light. The Joovv Go is a small handheld (and much more affordable) device that can be used on face, joints, hair or anywhere you want red light. For a more large scale option, their new modular design lets you order panels and group them together so you could have one unit or up to six all linked. Find out more at Joovv.com/wellnessmama and use the code WELLNESSMAMA to get a special gift.

This podcast is brought to you by Magic Spoon Cereal. I know, I know… never thought you’d hear me recommend cereal, did you? That’s because almost every cereal out there is full of refined sugars and grains and often GMO ingredients and food dyes. Yet, Americans certainly love it! In fact, the average American consumes 100+ bowls a year, and that number accounts for people like me who don’t consume any at all! Now, cereal lovers can rejoice that there is a high protein, low carb, grain-free, gluten-free, nothing artificial, childlike cereal that is great for grown-ups, too. With 12g of protein per bowl and only 3g of carbs it tastes like the cereal you remember but without the sugar high or the guilt! Check out magicspoon.com/wellnessmama for all the details

Katie: Hello and welcome to “The Wellness Mama Podcast.” I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and I’m here today with a new friend, Dr. Dan Pardi who is the CEO of humanOS.me, which is an application dedicated to helping you take care of your body and mind so that you can perform better per hour in life. He does research at Stanford University in California, and at Leiden University in the Netherlands. His research investigates how lifestyle factors like sleep, exercise, and diet influence cognitive functioning. He also works directly with high performing organizations from Silicon Valley VCs like the Mayfield Fund, and RTS Ventures to companies like Workday, Adobe, Pandora, Intuitive Surgical, Jazz Pharmaceuticals, and many more. He also works with Naval Special Warfare including the infamous SEAL Team Six to help the most elite fighters in the world maintain capable decision making under challenging circumstances. He is a wealth of knowledge and today we’re going to talk about how you can apply what he’s learned from all of that high level research and training to your daily life to perform better. So welcome, Dan. Thanks for being here.

Dan: Katie, thank you so much for having me on the show, I really look forward to chatting with you again, after we met at Paleo FX this year.

Katie: I can’t wait to jump in. And I mentioned in your bio, that you are the CEO of something called humanOS. So let’s start there. What is humanOS? And why did you start it?

Dan: It is a, I call it a health ecosystem, which to me represents the idea that we do a variety of different things. Some of those things do different things like educating people around aspects of health to try to promote fluency, which is means that you know a subject well enough to discuss it. To little tools that you can use within your day like breathing apps or tracking of physical activity level so you can stay mindful of your sleep, and physical activity, and daily steps, to even how to guides that you can you review, for example, to how to structure your lighting environment in your home and then reference. So if you forget a piece of information on and you can quickly get back to it. And even daily program, so workouts of the day and recipes of the day.

So we try to help in a lot of different ways and from a three dimensional manner. I started it because there’s probably a bunch of different moments in my life that nudged me into this direction. But one big life experience was losing my father at 59 from cancer, and I was doing Cancer Research at the time. I tried to help him with giving him information. You know, anybody in the health space will tell you that it’s the last person people that you will probably help are your family. Like it’s just very difficult I’ve found for family members to take advice from you, you know, they grow up with you, etc. And a lot of people in health space share that. But anyway, after he passed away, I thought, “Okay, well, one of the reasons why he wasn’t able to implement some of the ideas is just because it can be really hard to get bombarded with lots of info.” And that’s certainly what I did, I sort of overwhelmed in my belief.

And it made me think about human behavior, and what really drives it. And all the different way that that led to me creating a behavior model. And that behavior model is called the Loop Model to sustain health behaviors. And the executive summary of it is, in order for us to pick up an idea and do it long term, we should know why we should do it, how to do it, if we’re doing it and if it’s working. And that is the basis of humanOS, essentially. And so from years ago, while I was working on my PhD concurrently, I started to build out that idea, and I’m really proud of where we are today. So we help consumers around the world. I hate to refer to people as consumers, but you know, people that actually purchase our program. We have a basic and pro, and we also work with groups ranging from the military to VC’s, and banks, to corporations, and startups. And I think I’m in the right line of work because for as long as I’ve been doing this, I still wake up every day and run to my computer because I can’t wait to get back at it.

Katie: Well, first, I just wanna say I’m so sorry for your loss. I still have both of my parents with me, but I can’t imagine how difficult that is. So just I’m so sorry that that was your catalyst. But I’m also so grateful for what you’ve created as a result. And I think you’re right. It’s hardest ever, like they say, you can never be an expert in your own family.

And we hear that a lot. I’ve had that same experience in my family as well. But I think you really hit on such an important point, which is that a lot of us know all this stuff we’re supposed to be doing and we know a lot of the building blocks of what it takes to be healthy. And statistically, most of us are still not doing it. So are you guys able to see behavior change more effectively with humanOS?

Dan: Yes, we have. And I say that belief is not a binary concept. So we might have an understanding that something might be good for us. But when you can deepen somebody’s understanding on that subject, it can take on a new life where before you had, let’s say, familiarity with an idea, but with a little bit more knowledge, tightening up that understanding to a different level, that can now become a skill, right? It goes from, I’ve heard of that before, to now I understand it well enough where it can be a part of, like picking up a bike and riding it. And then you have to ask the question, well, how much should your average person who’s not a health expert. How much should you teach them? Right? Should they know as much as, let’s say, a professor on that very subject? I don’t think so. But can a person learn, let’s say, the top 10 most important things about that subject. And if you think about like with our…we create these courses, the courses are short, 20 to 30 minutes, they’re peer-reviewed by professors to give them a level of credibility. Those professors will be experts in that specific field.

And then we also want to make sure that, you know, we put our best foot forward. We’ll spend months making one course, highly referenced, really well researched. But it’s still nice to have that level of oversight where somebody can say, “Tighten this area up or make some adjustments here. I had questions here.” And so before we put that out to the world, we’d like to, it’s not a guarantee that information base won’t change or that we’re getting it perfectly right, but we’re doing our best that we can. And then if you think about how… And I’ll give you a very specific example. So how the system works. We created a course on the traditional Mediterranean diet. It was peer-reviewed by David Katz at Yale. We then worked with chefs to then make traditionally prepared Mediterranean diet recipes. And we also made a how-to guide. And if you think about the course, the course is meant to give you sort of a umbrella framework understanding of how do we become interested in this diet? What is the evidence behind it? What is it shown to be good for?

And then the how-to guide really is excavating the points that you actually take action on and putting that into a easily referenceable sheet. So now you have a mechanism to give you a greater understanding of the subject, you’ve got a reference that you can easily go back to. And then you got this tool that serves you, if you think about like a cookbook, you buy it, it’s beautiful, you put it on your shelf, and it collects dust. With our application, humanOS is a web app, which means that you use it in your browser. And we take one of those recipes from the different recipe packs that we have, and we make that your recipe of the day. So you’re kind of always getting reminded of these recipes that you have to make. And so you can see now the synergy between how the different parts of the system work to make it easier for you to then implement these ideas that you might already be enamored by. You might already say, “Hey, this is compelling to me.” And I use the Mediterranean diet as an example, but we have that for fasting and we’re making one on the Paleo Diet now which I’m also very favorable towards. And even on exercise, etc. So that is sort of how I think we’re different, right? It’s tying a lot of these pieces together to then create this tool that amplifies…any ability, any effort that you put in, we’re gonna try to amplify that and give you greater return on investment.

Katie: That’s so fascinating. And it’s really an amazing platform. And definitely, I’ll make sure there’s a link in the show notes for you guys listening, if you wanna check it out. It’s really cool. And I think you guys have the code “Wellness Mama,” so that everyone can get their first month for a $1. So I’ll make sure that link is in the show notes at wellnessmama.fm. I’m also curious to circle back because you mentioned when your dad got that diagnosis that you were doing cancer research. So I’m curious what you were researching and if you found anything through that that has been, like helpful in the process of this or they can be helpful to any of us in hopefully avoiding cancer.

Dan: Yeah, well, it was an interesting line of work, and it wasn’t directly related to the cancer that he had. It was looking at prostate cancer. I was working, I had just graduated with my masters in exercise physiology from Florida State University. And I came home and I got an internship working for Dr. Dean Ornish, who is a famous name in the health space. He’s a cardiologist. And he’s, you know, a bit controversial. He has a very low fat plant based program for reversing cardiovascular disease. But generally, a lot of his guidance is very measured. And what I liked about the work is that he, as opposed to so much research that we see, which is, let’s say, looking at one variable, and let’s say isolating things like a Selenium level to make sure that we’re understanding if that…we’re designing a study to see if that one variable has an impact in a condition. What Ornish was doing was tying together a multifactorial lifestyle program that was looking to leverage different aspects of how we live in order to affect the internal hormonal milieu that would then hopefully, help slow the progression of a disease, possibly even reverse it.

And so that include things like stress management, which then also included meditation or interpersonal communication with your spouse. Realizing that for a lot of men who get prostate cancer around this time, they might be retiring. A lot of their social network is tied into work. And all of a sudden, they go from having a broad social network to having none. So that’s a big stressor that can exacerbate any chronic condition, to even things like diet and exercise. And so that left an indelible impression on me to say, and that was another, I think, formative experience for sure. How do we then tie together an entire wellness program that is looking at all the different inputs on health because as we certainly know, we talk about diet and exercise the most. Now sleep is coming into the floor as a topic that people are understanding should receive an equal amount of attention.

And there are other things as well, right? So it’s stress management. And stress management, by the way, is not simply just knowing how to meditate or relax or taking a break from your tasks, both in terms of your day, but also in terms of, you know, using your vacation time, things like that. But stress management also means getting exposure to the stressors that keep us healthy, right? So many things that are healthy come in the form of being slightly stressful, or hormedic that can include things like fasting and exercise. It can include things like sauna or cold exposure, heat exposure, or thermic conditioning. And so interestingly, we tend to sort of encapsulate stress as this mental, you know, the things that stress the brain and the mind. But stress is a broader umbrella. And it’s also one that we must sort of…we have to…you know, life has a little suffering to it. We have to then do these things that are a little hard, but then they elicit what are considered to be pro-survival pathways that then make us stronger. Right, so, a life, even though exercise is stressful, a life without exercise means that we develop chronic disease much sooner. Or life with a rich amount and the right amount of physical activity, even though it’s stressful, makes us live longer, makes us perform better in our day. And that is a good example of a variety of different, of one’s type of stressor that then keeps the body functioning at its best. And so that’s why I think we do need this multi factorial program that really addresses all the different inputs to keep the body working at its best.

Katie: That was a great explanation. And I wanna go deeper on another thing related to that. So you’d given a TEDx talk on light, and how it affects our health. And it’s something I’ve written about quite a bit as well. And I feel like it’s one of those things that people still like to doubt really has an effect kind of like they doubt if EMF can actually have an effect because you can’t immediately necessarily feel the effect. So I wanna talk about this, walk us through some of the aspects of light and how it impacts health. And then how we can manipulate that for good or bad.

Dan: You are absolutely right. The light sounds a little hokey when you first hear about it. The reality is, it’s probably one of the most important, impactful aspects of our own health practice. And I refer to a health practice as the willful effort we make to try to get the right stimuli to keep us healthy. So it’s what we’re trying to do. And now because of the way that we live, we don’t live outside like our ancestors did, getting exposure to only natural light rhythms. We now live in built-in structural environments so that we can have lights on at night, we live…and that we spend 90% of our time indoors. And so that’s a different type of light than outside light as well. So overall, our lighting environment is completely changed. And not only that, the type of light has changed quite a bit. So in 1879, Thomas Edison patented the incandescent light bulb, and that light was exclusively used. It grew rapidly. The technology grew amongst the population rapidly. But in the ’80s, of course, before that we started to use light emitting diodes, but actually excuse me it was the ’90s. The Japanese invented light emitting diode or yes, LEDs, I’m sorry, before that it was compact fluorescent light. So we went from incandescent to compact fluorescent to LEDs. So the lighting has changed.

And now that type of technology is in our screens. It’s in our lamps, and it emits a different type of light. It’s more full spectrum. It has more blue in that spectrum. So if you think about an incandescent light, depending on how old you are, when you were younger, it was more amber tone, more like the tone of sunset or fire. Now we can represent the light tone from one of these new bulbs, can be more like daylight. And that has a lot of benefits to it, but it also has downside. So if we have that type of light on right before bed, we’re giving our brain a daytime signal when or when it’s actually dark outside. And in 2017, 3 gentlemen won the Nobel Prize in Medicine for their work in circadian biology, which is the biology of timing of all of our physiology. Light is the most significant important signal to determine the timing of our body. And so the most easy way for anyone to understand this, if you’ve ever done any travel across time zones, so you go from, let’s say, San Francisco or New York to Italy, right when you arrive, your body timing is still set to where you left, right, to San Francisco. But over the course of days, as you take in as you get exposure to the new lighting environment, then your physiology timing can completely switch. So where maybe eight days ago you were sleeping during this time, which is now day in Italy, now you’re up and you’re fully alert and you know it’s sort of 4:00 in the morning back at home, but you feel like it’s 2:00 in the afternoon.

A lot has to go on in the body for that to change. And it takes days, you know, up to 5 to 10 days to fully adjust. But the way that we live now, because we’re constantly always in a state of this misalignment because of our lighting, the good news is that these lights aren’t inherently bad, they’re more powerful. And because of that, we have to then do more ourselves to make sure we’re getting good light during the day, and evening and night. And so yes, the cool thing about LEDs is that we can get ones that are adjustable, we can dim them, so that’s adjusting the intensity. And we can also get ones that affect the tone and the temperature. And you want a temperature during the day that’s around 5000 Kelvin, Kelvin is the unit of light temperature. And then as it becomes evening, you want that temperature to drop to around, let’s say, 2000 to 3000. And then right before bed, you want it to be 1500 to 2000 Kelvin. And that’s gonna be, again, the tone of fire. And that type of light does not tell the brain that it’s day. So you can see perfectly fine, but you’re not giving your brain a daytime signal. And why this is so important is because our entire neuro endocrine system is under the control of our circadian system. So every hormone in the body and its timing will have an influence on…will be affected, excuse me, by our lighting environment and what time of day the brain thinks that it is.

So it is massively important and that’s why we see people that do shift work like nurses and firefighters and police officers. If you’re doing shift work where you’re working, let’s say, a few nights a week at a completely opposite schedule then you live your life, you’ll have, over the course of 10 or 15 years, your risk for developing chronic disease is four to five times higher, and that’s including hypertension, cardiovascular disease, cancers, it is a massive influence on our health. So it’s one of these things where if you have the right information, you can do something about it right now. But a lot of people that aren’t exposed to this information, they’re just going to be living in accordance with…you know, they’re gonna go buy lights that are available at Walmart, or Amazon or wherever. They’re gonna use them in their home, they might not dim them. And that is sort of the standard default condition now of modern life. So we need this type of information to see, okay, this is why it matters. Here’s what you can do about it. And luckily, you know, like I said, it’s one of those things that you can do something about. So that’s why I like this subject so much.

Katie: Yeah. And it’s not an especially difficult thing to do something about, like I know, for instance, sleep temperature also makes a relatively big difference in sleep patterns, at least when I track them. So I sleep in the chili pad it’s an easy thing. It doesn’t take any effort at all to do because it’s just about my sleep things like changing your light. Once it’s done, it’s a very no stress, no effort change that, like you said, can make a huge difference. Do you have any, like more specific recommendations on bulbs? Because I get that question a lot. And like I don’t have any specific recommendations I like to make.

Dan: Yeah. By the way, we do have a how-to guide on. It’s called Smart Light Rhythms day, evening and night. And it gives you things you can do in the morning, in the afternoon, in the evening, in night and during sleep to really get this right. And not only does it include products that you can buy, and bulbs, etc. But it also includes how to adjust your behavior and how to adjust settings on other devices like screens. We all use screens, whether it’s your monitor, phone. So yeah, most people are not going to stop using their iPad or phone in bed. But if you adjust the lighting setting, it will not be nearly as problematic. So the way that I like to motivate people to actually take part in this is because when you have a miss times lighting, it drastically causes you to feel much sleepier and less cognitively sharp the next day. If you get it right, you’re giving yourself the benefit of a good day tomorrow, a better day tomorrow. So that is sort of the near term, quicker feedback benefit. And that motivates me, you know, every day because if you wanna watch, let’s say, a movie in bed to relax at night, our visual system likes a full spectrum of light, right? We like to see all the colors etc. But I will put on these settings on my devices that then will cause the screen to look more yellow and amber. And I know that I’m doing myself a favor 12 hours from now when I do that.

And to go back to your question about different light bulbs. When the TED Talk came out, gosh, probably not quite a year ago. I knew I wanted to write this how-to guide about what things you could do. And it took probably six or seven months for me to get it out. And one of the reasons why is I wanted to test a lot of different light bulbs. So like, I ordered a variety of different types from Amazon and I would try them for a little while. I would actually have another device that I can test the Kelvin from my phone. I wanted to get first-hand experience before I made actual product recommendations. The products that I… And I actually have a variety of different strategies that I use now. So I have my home lights, those dim, that’s good. But then I have evening lights and those are on specific lamps. So I’ll turn off the home lights, and I’ll only use these lamps in the evening. And I have the different available options. The ones that I like are from LIFX L-I-F-X and that as opposed to Hue. Both of those make adjustable Wi-Fi lamps and what you can do is have them so if it’s 7:00 in the evening, I can have that bulb change color so that it’s giving off a sort of warmer yellowy color. But as it gets within two hours of bed, it’s getting more and more amber and orange tone. When I’m within an hour of bed, I have my home look like a dark room, like in photography, so it’s all red light. And that is having a very minimal impact on the circadian system. Again, it creates what’s called circadian darkness, which means your brain thinks it’s nighttime, but you can see perfectly fine, your visual system can see you can navigate your home, you’re not gonna trip on anything. And that is an optimal lighting situation in our modern world.

Katie: I love that. That’s probably the most comprehensive explanation I’ve heard on this podcast. So thank you for that.

And I know another area that we both talked about a little bit when we were on a panel together at Paleo FX was the importance of community and I’ve talked about this on the podcast quite a bit as well. And I wanna talk about it again because I think it’s a hugely hugely important aspect of health that a lot of people miss and like I know the statistics about it being more important than quitting smoking or twice as important as exercise. But I think it’s also one of those things like light and like EMF so people can just kind of ignore because it doesn’t have…like, if you eat a food that really makes you feel bad, you feel it pretty quickly, or things like that. I feel like it’s easy to ignore, but also so important. And I know that you share this as well. So can you walk us through what you’ve learned about community and maybe some practical steps you would suggest for people to build that in their lives.

Dan: It is another one of those really important points. Think about how our world, our modern world is shaping our interactions with humans over the day, with things like social networks, Facebook, etc. We might feel like we’re interacting a lot with humans, that the nature of the communication changes because of the platforms. But also we’re not…there are literal physical occurrences or biological effects from being around humans. When we’re around humans, we will release more oxytocin, which we tend to think of as the hormone that facilitates pair bonding within a mom and a child when she’s breastfeeding, which is true. But even just being around your friends will elicit more oxytocin release, that then has a variety of benefits on our physiology to help us get into more of that parasympathetic, less sort of sympathetic driven state, which, if you’re in that state too long, you will become slightly resistant to those chemicals that are keeping you driving forward, those tasks on oriented compounds. You become resistant to them. And one of the downstream effects of that is to actually develop low grade chronic inflammation. Because if it’s sort of a complex mechanism, I won’t explain it but that is sort of the A to B there or maybe even A to Z. And so it’s another one of those drivers of modern health problems, right?

And so when you’re around people, you can switch out of that task oriented state. And not only do you get a boost in oxytocin when you’re around friends, but then it will also facilitate your ability to wanna be around them more because it gives you those warm feelings. So just being around friends and getting exposure to that reinforcement will then facilitate you being around friends more often. Now, it’s strange enough, but we might actually just need to make time for that in our world. Now depending on where you are and sit on the lifespan, if you have a family and you’re very busy, that can just being around families wonderful. So keeping them near but making time for friends and I wrote an article about friendship. It had the most unsubscribes from my blog of all time. And it was actually probably maybe the one of the most impactful articles that I have written for me. I went to a salon dinner, salon dinner. The idea of it I do this with some friends, we choose a topic. And we bring people there with no pretense of expertise on that subject to discuss it. Some of the topics have been fatherhood 2.0. One was on meditation. But this one was on friendship.

The next day after that conversation, my mind was just on fire with ideas. And so I wrote, I just started to write and I really tried to understand first academically, like what qualifies as being a friend? Like way, you know, if you just have repeated friendly interactions, let’s say with somebody at the checkout counter that you see regularly, is that a friendship? You know, and just sort of challenging the idea a little. And then I went down to all different aspects of like, keeping old friends in your life, the value of making new friends, how and why to let friends go if you’re no longer serving each other and helping one another, which can happen. And it doesn’t mean that you want to abort a friendship at the very first sign, but sometimes it is the right thing to do to just move on. I ended up writing 4000 words on it. I think the reason for the unsubscribe is not that it was controversial. It was just because it felt maybe off topic for people that are coming to our blog for health. But no, it is an absolute health subject. And what was so interesting for me about that article is how many private messages I got detailing some interaction with friendship for that person. I didn’t realize what a private topic it is. You know, if people weren’t commenting on the blog in the comment section, they were writing me personally. And so that was really illuminating. And actually, one day I will sit down and write the 2.0 version of that because I have more to say. There’s more topics that I’d like to explore, male-female dynamics.

Dynamics related to, you know, being friends with, let’s say, somebody famous. Like, what is your… Is that necessarily a bad thing? Meaning like, you know, if you have somebody who is sort of well-known in your world, what’s your motivation for being friends with them? You know, and if they lost that status, would you still be friends with them? You know, just interesting subjects that I’d like to explore. And it’s given me a lot of tools, mental tools to then understand that not every friendship needs to be the same. Right? You hear the saying of like, “A good friend does this.” Well, maybe one good friend always will show up to you when you’re having a hard time. But other friends will show up for you in other ways, at different times. And so it’s sort of let me relax and let different types of friends just be themselves and sort of enjoy that relationship for what it is versus having some misplaced frustration if they’re not necessarily they don’t have all the characteristics of all my friendships in a way. So anyway, long answer, but community is extraordinarily valuable. You have to make time for it in your life. And yet, you know, I think reading that article on friendship could be a good way to sort of get into that subject a little bit more deeply and understand the relationships in your life. So you have family, you have your friends, and how do you cultivate that sort of perfect tribe.

Katie: l love that. I’ll make sure we link to that article on the show notes so that all of you guys listening can find it. And I think you’re so right on all those points you just made, I feel like community is an excellent teacher because I know in developing my own community, which I’ve also had to kind of build myself multiple times in different places. It’s great because, like you said, it offers a mirror a little bit too. So it’s brought up things I needed to work on in myself, which I was really grateful for. And then also realizing like I feel like when you’re younger, you sometimes have that best friend who’s like your all-encompassing friend and you guys kind of fulfill so many of those needs for each other. And for me adulthood has been a transition to more of that model, like you mentioned, where I have friends that all serve different needs, and hopefully I’m serving needs in them as well and that are various parts of the community but it much less of wanting one person or just a couple of people to be everything and to fulfill all of those needs. It’s building a community in a broader sense. And so I think that’s an excellent point that you made. You also have been in stress a couple of times. And we’ve touched on a few things that can help with stress. And I think light and community are tremendous factors, and that but we also now know that stress is literally epidemic in our society. So do you have anything that you have learned through all this research that you feel like is really helpful across the board for dealing with stress?

Dan: Yeah, there’s a lot to share. But if you think about one of the reasons why we try to be healthy, is to make ourselves more resilient to stress. So even just doing exercise, it makes the body more resilient, but it makes the mind more resilient too. And that applies to a lot of different aspects of dealing with stress in our world. So the stronger the body becomes, the stronger the mind becomes too. Now one thing that I have personally needed to work on is I do love my job. I prioritize taking care of myself, and my family, and my life. And then a lot of the rest of my time is filled in with working to the degree where I can overwork. My dad had that characteristic, too. I recognize it in myself, and I’m mindful of it. But what I also know that I need to do is take breaks in my day, and not necessarily be trying to accomplish a task. Let my mind wander, take a break, do some breathing, just sit and chill. Additionally, which is harder for me is figuring out ways to fully step away. And the way that I’ve positioned it to myself is I like to focus a lot on mental performance. And a lot of what we do at humanOS is how do we make your day. How do we make you better at your day and your day easier for you? And a lot of that comes through taking care of the body in what I call the practical fabric of your life, right?

It’s one thing that I tried to admonish you for, “Hey, you didn’t make two hours in your day to go for exercise?” Well, actually, how do we then help you fit physical activity into the world, so it actually works in your life versus… Well, I’m never really going to be able to sustain, you know, making extra time where I don’t have any. So I’m always thinking about that can be a really, really significant mental stressor too. You care about your health, you haven’t been introduced to some concepts that make it easier for you to be healthy, in what works in your life. So a lot of what humanOS is actually designed is with that idea in mind, the modern human. And I think, you know, it’s not that people don’t get that they should be doing this stuff. It’s just that we’re not always offered solutions that meet our actual needs. So that’s one idea and then it’s just like I was kind of circling around here, but really stepping out and realizing that if I’m a serious performer, stepping away from my work doesn’t mean that I’m not serious. It actually is a part of my performance practice to give myself legitimate rest. I think we all know that experience where you go on vacation and the first five days you just feel this decompression. And then by the end of the five days, you’re like, “Oh, yeah, I feel really relaxed now.”

Now, I wish I had another week to live in this physical self for a bit of time. I’ve been decompressing. So, last year, we did a couple of big trips, my family and I was really wonderful, went to Japan, went to Iceland. And I gave myself that time and I need to make sure that I’m doing that every year and probably a few times within the year. So rest within the day, bigger, longer rest periods, several times within the year and then just simply three-day, two-day weekends fully off not really looking at my computer, not trying to digest 15 different podcasts or read books, just stepping away from work and coming back to it with a renewed sense when I do go back to my tasks.

Katie: Yeah, that’s a great point about vacation. And when we were also on the panel together, we talked a little bit about homeschooling and family. And you just mentioned your family, it made me think of it. And so one of the reasons that our family decided to homeschool was that I could create what I felt like was a more optimal learning environment for our kids, and shift things like rather than then starting with 100 and losing points when you make a mistake, you start and you get to work up. And so it’s like focused on not the negative but the positive and just maintaining things like critical thinking and creativity and things that I felt like got stifled quite a bit in a lot of school environments. And I know this is something that you said you’ve thought through a lot as well and you considered homeschooling for a while. So I’d love to hear basically like why you guys considered it and we talked about some of those objectives that you had for your sons, and so like what were those and are you still incorporating those even though you’re not homeschooling?

Dan: Yeah, this is a subject that I was really excited to circle back with you on. And I don’t think we’re gonna have all the time today even to go into it as deeply as I’d like. But I know for me, my education, I always had an incredible opportunity in terms of the schools that I went to, and it was very, very much supported in my family. But as I went on in school, I learned more about myself and how I learned and that corresponded with me enjoying school, I was always like, “Hey, I like school,” I never hated it, but I learned to love it when I had certain criteria fulfilled. And it is weird how school cannot always facilitate those conditions. So our objectives for our boy Desmond and our little guy Cas, is nine months old, so this will come for him, but by the end of the high school time, the marker of success is not what school he’ll get into. I’m not even sure he’ll go to college, maybe it’ll be his decision. But that’s not a huge objective of ours. Rather, does he love learning? And does he have the skills to do so? Because I think if so, the world is your oyster. There’s so much. There’s more access than ever before to information, and the world is a fascinating place.

And so, I created these five development objectives, or at least categories: brain development, mind development, wisdom development, personality development, and then real world skill. So, for example, brain development, that is more about the physical structure of the brain. For a young child, what are the different conditions that you would want them to be in in order to have the best opportunity for that brain to fully develop without any hindrance. And that’s, of course, stress optimization, both sides of stress that we’ve been discussing, getting enough physical activity in their life while getting outside with, you know, in bare feet. Of course, sleep and circadian rhythm, light is huge, no screens in bed. One line from my TED talk is that children that have screens in their bedroom perform worse at all grade levels tested than children who don’t have screens in their bedroom. That is a very powerful point to show you just how much light is affecting our brain and our next day performance. So that’s an example of that.

And then of course, nutrition. What is the best diet to optimize brain development? And then if you move from sort of the physical structure of the brain to the mind, how do you learn? What do you recognize if you were to sit down as a child and try to learn something? What processes can we teach them so that they have command and agencies to say, “Okay, so this is the type of challenge I have, and this is the tools that I’m going to use to make that process most efficient.” Can you also facilitate things like focus and grit, and self-regulation, doing a lot of training of meta cognitive processes, helping the child sit back, do an inventory of themselves, how do you feel right now? And just let them instead of just drive, drive, drive, let them regulate, teach them how so that they can, again, keep that process exciting and interesting and not… You know, learning doesn’t feel like “homework” which is usually thought of with an eye roll.

And then you move to things like wisdom development. So for all the information that you’re learning, how do you move it from integration? Can you integrate those different subjects? Association. What associations can you make. And articulation. Can you articulate what you know in a way that is compelling and convincing, and one that can capture people’s attention. Projection, right? Can you then take these concepts and model what this might look like in the future under different scenarios, and even getting perspective? Why the scenario might not play out in a different context for different people in different situations? So I think that’s a really good way. So instead of just learning declarative facts, you’re now creating a mind that interacts with the world in an increasingly wise way.

And then things like personality development. So going into that fourth category. How do you develop confidence and humor, leadership and the idea of teamwork and regulating your ego in the context of working with other people? Do you always have to be the leader? Are you forcing everybody to work around you so that the conditions are right for you? Or can you adapt flexibly to a new situation and help whatever that situation is move in the right direction? And then some of the real world skills, things that are absolutely trained out of us by our world, and not trained by our older generations, cooking skills, financial skills, right? So we’re now talking about with our boy Desmond, actually giving him an amount of money that for chores, that would actually help him pay for a lot of things in his life. So we’re now teaching him because I think when you make just a little bit of money, and you don’t have any responsibility with that, it’s just spending money. So we’re teaching this money you spend, versus like, here’s all the money and you now have to go to your dentist and pay for that, and obviously, would be under a very controlled environment by us. But you’re now giving them a real world skill of how to work with money in a successful way. That is, of course, age appropriate, but then you get to high school and that person really understands how to control their finances.

And then one thing I’ve heard you mention, and it’s the same goal we have, and I won’t go through all the different things here for real world skills. There’s quite a few, including, you know, self-defense and self body care and charity, but the one I’ll mention now is entrepreneurship. I would be incredibly happy for Desmond to arrive at a, you know, college age, with the ability to learn, skills to do so, the ability for leadership and humor and all of that and to grit, find a challenge in the world that he finds important, and to figure out a way to make an astride to improve that situation in some way that’s either local or global, or whatever it is. And I don’t care what he chooses to work on, you know, but who knows, there might be other outcomes, he might want something different. So I’m not trying to necessarily push him down that path. But I think that that would be one outcome that I would be really excited about, is his ability to find a problem and get a group of people to help solve it.

Katie: I absolutely share that. I mean, like you said, I hope that for our kids, I won’t push them into it, just like I certainly won’t push them into college or career or any of that. But I love how you’ve essentially organized so much of the same thoughts that we have with our kids into a system like that. And on the physical development side, like just add a few things that we’ve incorporated that have been really helpful. We’ve had all of our kids do gymnastics and martial arts at some point, I think both of those are really good for shaping your environment and shaping your body and your ability to move. And there’s so much cool data on children, especially at different developmental milestones, and their shaping of their brain and their limbic system and so much that goes back to that. And I think when you teach those skills early, same with music, you can really activate parts of the brain in a different way.

And make it really fun. There’s a cool program also called Games of Genius that incorporates the movement, the music, pattern recognition, and a lot of that. They basically took the brain of a polymath and kind of engineered it backwards and said, like, how do they think differently than most people? And how can we take those thought patterns? So kind of try to incorporate some of those things as well, but absolutely right there with you on all of it. And to circle what you said on entrepreneurship as well. I know this is, like you said, one area that you and I talked about, but whether or not they have an entrepreneurial career, I share your hope that my kids will find a problem in the world and try to make it better, or see a need and serve people who have that need. And I think entrepreneurship and business is a great way to teach that even if their path ends up different than mine.

And so in our house, I’ve mentioned it before on here, but I’ll say it again, we basically finished up book work in school by about 13 or 14, ideally, and we try to minimize book work anyway. But they’re actually done with a high school curriculum by that point. So that, at that level, we can basically move them into an entrepreneurial incubator that we let them help learn skills like tolerance for failure, because that’s a tough one every entrepreneur gets to face at some point, and to develop a business plan, try at something, probably fail a few times at it, but then also succeed at it. And so that’s kind of our contract with our kids, that before they drive or have a phone, they have to have a profitable business. It doesn’t have to be wildly profitable, but it has to show profit. And that way we can teach all of those skills of consistency, and all the financial aspects and so much of what goes into that through your hands on experience. I love that you guys share that. It’s such a fun topic for me to talk about as well. And I think you’re right, we can talk a whole another episode just about parenting and homeschooling and imparting these necessary skills to your kids.

Dan: Since your children, I think, are a little older than mine, when they are at a time where they’re offering an internship, please let me know, because maybe Desmond may apply for it and can learn from them.

Katie: Oh, my gosh, yeah, absolutely. We definitely have to stay in touch.

This podcast is brought to you by Joovv. You’ve heard me talk about them before but their red light therapy or photobiomodulation lights are a part of my daily routine. Here’s why: There’s evidence that certain wavelengths of light are beneficial to the body in various ways. On a cellular level, they may help improve mitochondrial function and increase production of ATP, or cellular energy. This can manifest in clearer skin, more energy, quicker recovery and even increased hair growth. I use red light on my thyroid as part of my protocol along with a low inflammation diet and other lifestyle factors and am in complete remission of Hashimotos. Also, since I do spend careful and moderate time in the sun and don’t plan on giving that up anytime soon, I use red light to help protect my skin and guard against wrinkles. They now have two new innovations that make it even easier to get red light. The Joovv Go is a small handheld (and much more affordable) device that can be used on face, joints, hair or anywhere you want red light. For a more large scale option, their new modular design lets you order panels and group them together so you could have one unit or up to six all linked. Find out more at Joovv.com/wellnessmama and use the code WELLNESSMAMA to get a special gift.

This podcast is brought to you by Magic Spoon Cereal. I know, I know… never thought you’d hear me recommend cereal, did you? That’s because almost every cereal out there is full of refined sugars and grains and often GMO ingredients and food dyes. Yet, Americans certainly love it! In fact, the average American consumes 100+ bowls a year, and that number accounts for people like me who don’t consume any at all! Now, cereal lovers can rejoice that there is a high protein, low carb, grain-free, gluten-free, nothing artificial, childlike cereal that is great for grown-ups, too. With 12g of protein per bowl and only 3g of carbs it tastes like the cereal you remember but without the sugar high or the guilt! Check out magicspoon.com/wellnessmama for all the details.

Katie: I’m curious at a high level, if you could just kind of walk us through daily habits that have stuck because you’ve done so much research. And I fall in this trap as well knowing so many things that I should do could do that are good to do. Which ones make the cut as far as things that you incorporate on most days?

Dan: Yeah, great question. I have a bit of flexibility. So this is a part of the book that I’m writing and it is around self-regulation in your day. I think that sometimes we can gravitate towards hard and fast rules, always wake up at this time, always do this at 10:00 a.m. Right? Some of that stuff can actually be really helpful. And it can also be helpful as a very clear way to a set of rules that you can take part in and then that can hopefully develop and flower into your own set of rules that you have for yourself. For me, there are certain things that I will try to do within my day and in the week. Lighting is a very important component to that. So I spend about a half an hour outside, at least 10 minutes in the morning. So if I have a cup of coffee or phone call, it’s always outside to get that morning light. In the evening, I have certain alarms in my day, so an hour before bed, an alarm goes off, so that it gives me enough time to prepare for bed. Okay, stop what I’m doing and now initiate my going to bed routine in which there’s a couple of things that I’m doing including taking up, making a list for the next day, which we wrote a blog on Greg Potter, my team did this that looked at some research that says if you… That research had people write a gratitude list or a to-do list for the next day, and they monitor to see what had a bigger impact on sleep.

And it was the to-do list that actually had the bigger impact of basically getting out those thoughts on paper allows the mind to relax. And that actually helped people get sleep longer, like go to sleep faster and get longer time in bed. So that was really interesting. Then during the week, one of the first things I do we have something called the Daily Per Formula. It’s a daily e-mail, you can turn it on if you know, it’s funny. It’s sort of one of the more controversial, if you will, parts of the site because people some people hate it. “Oh, it’s some other e-mail?” Other people it’s their favorite thing. But in it, it’s like here’s your recipes today. Here’s your workouts today. So I look at that first and I created something called Intune Training. And it stands for integrative and opportunistic training. And it’s a different type of training program, where instead of trying to consolidate all of your physical activity into one workout, I have no problem with doing that. But it’s not the only way we can move. Rather, you can then just chip away at these reps for the program. It’s all bodyweight oriented across your day. And I actually do that to stimulate mental performance as well.

So what I do is I look at that first thing in the morning. And then the rest of the day really depends on what the day looks like. And so you have to then… I think the mindset that I really care to facilitate in myself and in others is, look at your next couple of hours. What can you do to make that time better? And sometimes, it’s, I’m gonna be speaking in front of people. Sometimes, you know, “I’m not feeling very sharp right now. Let me step away from my harder tasks and just clear off a lot of that little two-minute clutter that has built up and congests my to-do list.” To maybe I’m gonna do some meditation or take a nap. So it’s sort of dependent and conditional on what I have in front of me and what my day looks like. But I think that that mindset of saying, “Okay. What does the next few hours hold? What’s in my tool kit or quiver that I can then use to make myself perform better at not just my day in the few hours, but really in the week as well?” And I also monitor my activity level. So we have something called an Activity Score, and it looks at your daily steps, so low intensity, physical activity, and any exercise that you enter into our system. And it gives you a percentage score. And that score is relative to the Department of Health and Human Services. So I know that if I’m maintaining a score over 100%, then I’m meeting their recommendations for weekly activity level. So I look at that as well. “Okay, I need to do a little bit more activity here.” And it just sort of gives me that feedback to nudge me to keep that weekly pattern moving.

I also try to ingest a good variety and diversity of plant phytochemicals in my day. They help improve blood flow to the brain and keep me feeling sharper. And then I’ll do just a lot of movement. So I’ll be, you know, there’s a saying that “Sitting is the new smoking,” I disagree with that, sitting is a natural behavior, we just sit too much. It’s that’s sort of analogous to saying that bad cholesterol makes you feel like let’s get rid of all of it, right? We know it has a place in health, we just don’t want it to get out of balance. So similarly, with standing, we want to make sure that we are not sitting for long periods of time. So I’ll sit and stand. And there are times where I’ll be writing, you know, my best work comes laying on my back writing on my phone. So I’m always changing my position. I’m always moving around. And that’s how I navigate my day and I feel fortunate because I think a lot of the things that we are allowed to do, if you will, have everything to do with the permissiveness of our environment. If I wear a suit and I work in an office, what I can do is going to look different than if I work in the back of my house in a garage and I have kettlebells. And you know, so you have to then sort of plan your day, given the constraints that you face.

But developing that mastery and how to do that. You are the direct beneficiary of all the effort you put in, even if you occasionally try things that don’t stick or that didn’t actually serve you as well as you’re hoping. Figuring that stuff out trying and learning and keeping refining. I mean, what I call human classes, we say master your health practice, right? There’s no promises that we make that, A, in 30 days you’ll have it all solved. It’s actually an ongoing process. There’s always if you think about self-care, in today’s world, we’re dealing with a you that is changing. So your interests change over time, your interests when you’re 20 to 30 are different than when you’re 40 to 50, and is an example, at least what’s driving you to be healthy. The environment is changing. Look at the reference to light emitting diodes or LEDs just in the last 30 years that’s drastically changed right underneath our feet. And now we have to respond to that. And then the information base is changing. As we know, the microbiome and circadian rhythms. Those were not a part of any health model 15, 20 years ago. Now we know what a massively powerful effect they have in our body, but we need to be able to adjust to that.

So you can’t just teach like here’s health and in a pillar nutshell, it’s rather you have to teach the capacity for evolving self-care over time and that has to do with regular engagement. It has to do with regular learning. And just keep working at it making it a significant part of your day and your mission. It can’t just be pushed off to the backdrop and sort of save for the weekends, because that ends up sort of not sticking usually for a lot of folks. How are you constantly working at it, and doesn’t mean that you have to be a professor at all this stuff, it just means that you’re working to make your experience as good as possible.

Katie: I love all of that. And I can’t believe our time has flown by so quickly except for that you’re easy to talk to you, so I can. A question I love to ask at the end, and I know you’re gonna have probably some great suggestions is if there’s a book or a number of books that have really changed your life. If so, what are they and why?

Dan: Oh gosh. So I have to admit, I don’t do as much reading of books as I’d like to. It’s something that I’d like to change. I’m somewhat resolved to the fact that all of my time is filled with reading scientific papers and articles and that’s okay. But reading a good book, mostly nonfiction for me. It’s just a wonderful… There’s so many books I’d like to read. I’m constantly feeling like I’m behind. But one book that really has stood out in the last 10 years is “Thinking Fast and Slow,” by Daniel Kahneman. In fact, I think that book gave rise to an entire category of books that were basically referencing his work and sort of rephrasing a lot of his stuff in different ways, which is not a bad thing. But that is like a Bible for me. And Daniel Kahneman, if you’re not familiar with him, is a Nobel Prize winner, with he and Amos Tversky, came up with something called Prospect Theory. They look at cognitive biases. We tend to think of biases is entirely a negative thing, but they’re essentially mental shortcuts that help us navigate the world because we don’t, we can’t, we’re not AI computers. We don’t go and assess the statistics of every situation. We have gut feelings and we have a lot of these reactions that we have to the world. We’re blind to them and so the book goes into this what system one and system two.

And system one is this sort of more reptilian, primal driven reaction to our world. And then system two is our cognitive control. It’s our thinking. And it’s our assessment. We tend to think that system two has much greater command of how we live, than is real. The truth is we do a lot of thinking and navigating our world by system one. But even just understanding how the brain works in that way helps you understand situations you get in and see if you can see behaviors in others. It’s always easier to see behavior in others than it is in yourself. But it sort of pulls back a veil on the world and you can see things in a bit of a different way and it hopefully navigate your own world a little bit differently, too. It’s a great book. I’ve read it three or four times and I feel like I could read it another 10 times and still get a lot more information out of it. That’s a wonderful book.

Katie: I love it and we’ll add it to the show notes so that you guys can all find it. Those are again at wellnessmama.fm. For anyone listening who wants to try it, how can they get started with humanOS?

Dan: Yeah. So I’m so proud and happy to be able to offer your community the ability to try humanOS for a month for $1. If we could give it away for free, that’s the minimum we can charge till we flip the system into Pro. And in that time, gosh, get in there, watch all of our courses are like 20 minutes. They’re broken into short lessons, two to three minutes. And they’re interrupted with quizzes. We do that so you have a moment to pause and think about what you just learned, which we now know actually facilitates this idea of fluency better than just familiarity. And I also feel that doing a physical activity, for instance, is not the only type of health behavior that we must construct. But humans are tool-using animals, we also must figure out the tools that support our ongoing knowledge, wisdom, development and practice. And so I think of the use of humanOS itself as a health skill and, you know, that can apply to other health apps as well. But can you interact with this information and put yourself in a better position so that in one year from now you’re wiser, smarter, and your pattern is more confident and stable.

And then you know, can you continue to develop? So, yeah, get in there, you can make a basic account. In the coupon area, you put in the “Wellness Mama” code, that’ll give it to you for free if you wanna continue using it. I hope you do. I hope you feel like you get enough value from it where it’s worth the price of…it’s $9.99 a month. It’s sort of I would think ridiculously inexpensive for all that we give. There’s over 25 different courses in there. Probably 10 or 12 different how-to guides, bunch of different recipe packs and workouts. And if you have a Fitbit, you can integrate that too and monitor your sleep and your physical activity level. So yeah, get in there, try it out, learn the different elements of the system. Give yourself a month and see how much you can get from it.

Katie: Awesome. Thank you so much for offering that. And of course, the link will be in the show notes so you guys can find it. Dan, I know how busy you are. Thank you so much for your time being here and sharing this. I feel like this is a wide-ranging and super helpful conversation, so thank you.

Dan: Oh my gosh, thank you for having me on. I just knew in this short time of interacting on the two panels that we had, that we just had to connect again. And I’m so glad we did. And thank you for having me on the show. It’s been a pleasure to be here and chat with you again.

Katie: All the pleasure is mine and we will definitely have to stay in touch. And thanks to all of you for sharing your valuable asset, your time, with us today, we’re so grateful that you did. And I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of “The Wellness Mama Podcast.”

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.

Thanks to Our Sponsors

This podcast is brought to you by Joovv. You’ve heard me talk about them before but their red light therapy or photobiomodulation lights are a part of my daily routine. Here’s why: There’s evidence that certain wavelengths of light are beneficial to the body in various ways. On a cellular level, they may help improve mitochondrial function and increase production of ATP, or cellular energy. This can manifest in clearer skin, more energy, quicker recovery and even increased hair growth. I use red light on my thyroid as part of my protocol along with a low inflammation diet and other lifestyle factors and am in complete remission of Hashimotos. Also, since I do spend careful and moderate time in the sun, I use red light to help protect my skin and guard against wrinkles. They now have two new innovations that make it even easier to get red light. The Joovv Go is a small handheld (and much more affordable) device that can be used on face, joints, hair or anywhere you want red light. For a more large scale option, their new modular design lets you order panels and group them together so you could have one unit or up to six all linked. Find out more at Joovv.com/wellnessmama and use the code WELLNESSMAMA to get a special gift.

This podcast is brought to you by Magic Spoon Cereal. I know, I know… never thought you’d hear me recommend cereal, did you? That’s because almost every cereal out there is full of refined sugars and grains and often GMO ingredients and dyes. Yet, Americans certainly love it! In fact, the average American consumes 100+ bowls a year, and that number accounts for people like me who don’t consume any at all! Now, cereal lovers can rejoice that there is a high protein, low carb, grain-free, gluten-free, nothing artificial, childlike cereal for grown ups. With 12g of protein per bowl and only 3g of carbs it tastes like the cereal you remember but without the sugar high or the guilt! Check out magicspoon.com/wellnessmama for all the details

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clean no 01:02:49 Katie Wells
285: How to Have a Miracle Morning and Organize Your Day With Hal Elrodhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/hal-elrod/ Mon, 09 Sep 2019 11:00:35 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=418448

I am a huge believer in the power of a story, and my guest today has several almost unbelievable chapters to share. Hal Elrod is known for his incredible ability to shine light on even some of the darkest tragedies, of which he’s experienced several in his own life. His book The Miracle Morning has made all the difference in how I start my day, and I can attest firsthand that his formula works.

If you’ve been wanting to make changes, reach some new goals, or learn better habits, today’s episode is a must. Hal will also share about his personally tested ways to gain motivation, clarity, and purpose in just a few minutes every morning.

Episode Highlights With Hal Elrod

  • The mindset that helped Hal overcome personal tragedy to become a successful author and motivational speaker
  • How to train our brains to see the positive even in the worst situations (and why we’d want to)
  • What Hal means by a “miracle morning” and how he came up with the concept
  • The difference between you and most CEOs (it’s not much!)
  • Ways to increase accountability in your daily life
  • And more!

Resources We Mention

More From Wellness Mama

What is your own version of a miracle morning routine? Please drop a comment below or leave a review on iTunes to let us know. We value knowing what you think and this helps other moms find the podcast as well.

Read Transcript

Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.

This episode is sponsored by Fabletics, my current source for all my gym wear. In the last six months, I’ve discovered several new types of workouts that I’m loving. From group classes focused on flexibility, to high intensity work, to underwater weight and breath training, I’ve been loving trying new things and Fabletics has activewear for all of it. And I wear one of their pieces pretty much every day. Their mission is to make affordable high quality workout wear available to all of us, and I love being a VIP member, which unlocks special benefits. Here’s how it works… when you go to fabletics.com/wellnessmama and take a 60-second quiz, it matches you with a showroom of styles designed for your body and workout type. Before I forget, Fabletics is offering my listeners an incredible deal you don’t want to miss: Get 2 leggings for only $24 ($99 value) when you sign up for a VIP. Just go to fabletics.com/wellnessmama to take advantage of this deal now. Also, free shipping on orders over $49. International shipping is available and there is absolutely no commitment when you purchase your first order! Here’s a tip: make sure you enter your email address when you take the quiz to get notified about new styles and special. I’ve found out about some amazing sales through that link. I also personally recommend the power hold leggings which are awesome for everything from lifting weights to yoga.

This podcast is sponsored by Organifi, my source for super high quality superfood powders that are often part of my meals, especially when I travel. Green juice, their most popular drink, lets you incorporate farm fresh, gently dehydrated ingredients into your diet and lock in the extra vitamins and antioxidants. I just add to water and drink! It’s my go-to for veggies in the morning and is packed with chlorella for detox, spirulina and turmeric for detox as well as pain and inflammation, mint for improved digestion, matcha green tea for energy, and ashwagandha for cortisol and stress balance. Organifi also has a red juice with antioxidant-rich superfoods like cordyceps, reishi, and rhodiola plus an abundance of red berries. It’s sweet and fruity but low in sugar. It’s designed to fight aging, improve energy and metabolism, and sharpen cognition so I often drink it midday. And lastly, their the Organifi Gold drink is awesome at night and is filled with turmeric for skin health, ginger for achy muscles, turkey tail for immunity, and coconut milk for healthy saturated fat. Check all of these out at organifi.com/wellnessmama and use the code WELLNESS20 for 20% off.

Katie: Hello and welcome to the Wellness Mama podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and this episode is all about maximizing your morning routine. I am here with Hal Elrod who is on a mission to elevate the consciousness of humanity one reader at a time. He’s the author of the international best seller “The Miracle Morning” as well as his newest book “The Miracle Equation” and he’s doing just that.

After overcoming multiple near-death experiences that we talk about in this episode, and impacting millions of lives, he has dedicated his own life to showing others how to overcome their challenges so that they can fulfill their unlimited potential. This is a super fun episode, it has some really practical tangible things that you can implement in your own morning. I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed recording it.

Hal, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for being here.

Hal: Katie, it is a pleasure really, thank you so much for having me.

Katie: Well, I’m so excited to chat with you because I am a huge believer in the power of a story. And I know from a little bit of research about you and from reading your books that you have actually quite an amazing story that has multiple chapters. So, to start with, for those people who are not familiar with you, can you just give us an overview of who you are and your story and how you got to this place that you are now.

Hal: Yeah, I’ll do the high level because I’m a keynote speaker I’m very long-winded, and if I start to get into the story which we can dive into each one. But, you know, all of a sudden, I’ll realize I haven’t even taken a breath yet and I’m like 12 minutes into my story. But, so, high level. When I was…I grew up very average or mediocre if you will, meaning, you know, I was a C student. I wasn’t an athlete. I wasn’t popular. I didn’t really have, other than all the gifts that, we’re each born with unique gifts, I didn’t really wasn’t born with any really amazing standout talents. And then when I was 15 I fell into a job DJing. I DJ’d school dances, and weddings, and anniversaries, and then I got hired at the radio station. And that became my dream was to be a radio DJ.

And then fast forward at 19, a buddy of mine almost tricked me into going to work with him and he was in sales, and he sold Cutco cutlery. And I had no interest in being in sales. I was at another radio station at that point after my first year of college. And I met the manager, Jesse Levine and ended up, Jesse really sold me on the idea that, you know, setting my own schedule and having no ceiling on my income, and it was kind of, and all the experience I could gain. I decided to give it a shot, and I started selling Cutco cutlery, and in my first 10 days I broke the all-time company record. Which meant I’d sold more kitchen knives in the first 10 days of anyone that had worked before me in 50 years. And it was kind of a crazy thing for me because I went from being this average kid to like, “Whoa, I didn’t know I had this in me,” you know. And that for all of us, we have so much more within us, so much more potential than we have yet to tap into.

A year and a half later I was giving a speech at a Cutco Conference and driving home after the speech in a brand new Ford Mustang. I just bought my first new car. I was hit head-on by a drunk driver at 80 miles an hour. And my car spun off of the drunk driver and the worst was actually yet to come, you’d think what’s worse than a head-on with a drunk driver at 80 miles an hour, but, the car behind me, I spun in front of them and they crashed into my driver’s side door at 70 miles an hour and crushed my car door into the left side of my body. And instantly I broke 11 bones. I broke my femur in half, I broke my pelvis in three places, I broke my arm, my humerus behind my bicep in half, shattered my elbow, broke all the bones around my eye, my eye socket was shattered, severed my ear and begin losing a lot of blood. And that night I bled to death. I was dead for six minutes on the side of the freeway. After they pulled me out of the car, the car was kind of keeping me alive. And I bled to death, I was clinically dead for six minutes, rushed to the hospital, in a coma for six days, I flatlined twice more in the coma. And when I came out of the coma, I was told by doctors that I would never walk again, and I had permanent brain damage.

And, you know, at any age, that’s tough to take, but at 20 I had a lot of goals that involved, you know, walking again, and the use of my brain. And I decided that I would not accept the doctor’s diagnosis as the ultimate fate, that I was going to believe I could walk again and have faith that I could walk again until I was proven otherwise. And I’d accepted that I would, and I’d go, “Well, maybe I’ll never walk again.” And if I never walk again, I told my dad, “I’ll be the happiest person that you’ve ever seen in a wheelchair dad, because I will not let a wheelchair define my quality of life. I will not let it define my emotional well-being.” And the power of the mind-body connection, three weeks after the crash, two weeks after I came out of the coma, the doctors came in with routine X rays and they said, “We don’t know how to explain this, Hal, but your body is healing so quickly that we’re actually gonna let you take your first step today in therapy.” And even me being, you know, faithful, and hopeful, and optimistic, I was thinking maybe I could walk in like a year, not in three weeks, you know, or two weeks after I woke up, and I took my first step and the rest is kind of history as they say.

And then I’ll kind of wrap up the big picture story with just two other pieces. In 2007 when the U.S. economy crashed, that was kind of what I would call my second rock bottom, the car accident being my first. During my second rock bottom, when the economy crashed, I kind of crashed with it. I was an entrepreneur and my business failed. I couldn’t pay the mortgage, I lost my house, I physically started declining in terms of my body fat percentage tripled in about six months. I wasn’t exercising, I was depressed, I was scared, I didn’t know how to turn it around.

And I created this morning ritual. This was like my desperate attempt to turn things around. I created a morning ritual. I wanted to create the ultimate morning ritual. And the idea was that, I was studying the world’s most successful people, just googling and looking for what are their rituals and routines? I need to start changing things in my life if I want my life to change. And I kept coming across morning rituals that I’m like, “No, I’m not a morning person, like what else do they do?” And long story short there or long story longer, I decided to create, I go, “I’m gonna create not just the morning ritual, I’m gonna create the ultimate morning ritual. I’m gonna take like the best personal development practices in the history of humanity, and I’m gonna combine all of them.”

And the next morning I woke up and over the course of an hour, I meditated for 10 minutes, I did 10 minutes of affirmations, 10 minutes of visualization, 10 minutes of exercise, 10 minutes of reading, and 10 minutes of journaling. And that morning, I went from being depressed and scared to going “Wow, I feel inspired. I feel motivated, I feel energized, I feel optimistic. If I start every day like this, it’s only a matter of time.” But I thought it’d probably be, again, like six months to a year of this slow, gradual compound effect. But within two months of doing this morning ritual, didn’t have a name, it was just personal development in the morning that I did at 5 am. And within two months, I more than doubled my income, I went from being in the worst shape of my life physically to deciding to train for a 52-mile ultramarathon, I’d never run before. And I completed the marathon, you know, six months later.

And I went to my wife and I said, “Sweetie,” I go, “We just officially have surpassed the highest, two months ago we were in debt and couldn’t pay the bills. We just surpassed the highest monthly income we’ve ever had,” which at that time was $12,000 a month. And I said, “It feels like a frickin miracle that, you know, this little morning ritual it’s like how it’s changing my life.” And she goes, “It’s your miracle morning.” And I go, “Yeah, miracle morning,” and, you know, it wasn’t a book I just wrote it down. And, you know, now “The Miracle Morning” is a book and it’s sold 1.7 million copies, it’s translated in 37 languages, it’s practiced every day by, you know, over a million people.

And then the last part of the story is. Two years ago, I woke up unable to, I couldn’t breathe, I had trouble breathing, and turned out I took 11 days of me having my lungs, 16 pounds of fluid drained from my lungs every day and a half I’d go to the ER and have a giant needle stuck in my back through my rib cage. And it took them about two weeks to figure out what was wrong, but I was diagnosed with a very rare aggressive form of cancer, acute lymphoblastic leukemia and I was given a 30% chance of surviving. You know, I’ve two small kids, they were seven, my daughter was seven at the time, my son was four. And, you know, for any anyone but especially a parent, you know, the idea of leaving your family without a father was terrifying.

And I made the same decision that I made when I was told I would never walk again. And I thought, “I will maintain unwavering faith that I will beat this cancer and live a long, healthy life with my children until I’m proven otherwise.” And I’m very grateful to say that after the most difficult year of my life where I was in the ER fighting for my life many times and almost dead and lost 25% of my body weight, at six feet tall I was 127 pounds. But I’m about a year of being cancer-free and in remission and now on a mission to elevate the consciousness of humanity one person at a time. And that brings us to today.

Katie: That’s incredible. And I’m so curious, because I feel like when presented with a really tough scenario in life, and you’ve definitely had a couple of those, people can go a couple of different ways. And I often see people fall into that like “Why me” mentality and I’m curious, why do you think it is that you didn’t ask why me, or take those answers that you were given from the doctors at face value? What do you think in you made you able to resist that and to choose an alternate path?

Hal: Yeah, and I think I know pretty close to exactly why. And I can’t take all the credit for it, it was really a mentor of mine. When I was in my Cutco training on day two I think, my manager and mentor, Jesse, taught us what he called the five-minute rule. And he said, “Look, sales is a microcosm for life, when you go out there, you’re gonna have goals and you’re gonna have dreams and ambitions. You’re gonna be working towards things, and you’re going to run into obstacles, and challenges, and adversity. You’re gonna, you know, be working towards a goal and, you know, be on track and then you’re gonna have your biggest order for the week, they’re gonna call and cancel.” And he said, “This is just, it’s just reality. There are a lot of things that happen that are out of your control, and you can only control the things that you can control.”

And he said, so the five-minute rule is that, whenever something happens that is unpleasant, or painful, or scary, or difficult, he taught us to literally set our timer on our phone for five minutes. And we got five minutes to complain, cry, vent, punch a wall, like whatever, you know, just like urgh, feel the pain, feel the emotion. And he said, “When the timer goes off, you take a deep breath, and you say three very powerful words ‘Can’t change it.” And you remind yourself that, “I can’t go back in time and change it. So there’s no value in continuing to feel upset about it. The only intelligent choice that I have really to make is to accept it fully and be at peace with it, and then be proactive to move toward where I wanna go in my life or in my work.” You know, get on the phone, make more calls, whatever it is in that setting.

And so I had, you know, when I first learned the, and by the way, this is one of those important lessons I teach now even when I speak. I mean, it’s crazy to think 20 years later I’m teaching this to thousands and thousands of people and, you know, in live audiences and online but it’s still this five-minute rule where, when I first learned that, like most people, they’re like, you know, I thought, “Can I get like a five-day rule, I need to be pissed off for like five days, like, five minutes is not enough.” And sure enough, the first few times I did this little five minute rule, I’d set the timer and the timer would go off and I’d go, “I’m still mad, like, I’m still upset,” right?

But here’s the interesting thing that happened. When we elevate our consciousness, when we become consciously aware of a different way of thinking or living, a better way of thinking or living and we start, you know, we be aware of it, and then we stay present to it, and we live in alignment with it, it changes everything for us. And what happened is, after a few days, maybe a week of doing this, where, you know, at first I thought, there’s no way I can get over it in five minutes. I would set the timer for five minutes and I’d go, “Son of a gun, I can’t believe that lady canceled the appointment, I’ve been working on this for weeks, and gosh, darn it, urgh, oh, man.” And then I pick up my phone and look at the timer and I’d have, you know, four minutes and 32 more seconds, and I’d go, “I’m over it.” And I’d go, “Why sit here and stew on something I can’t change for another four and a half minutes when I could probably make three more calls and schedule another appointment to make up for that one?” And so the five-minute rule became a kind of a five-second rule, where I just needed five seconds to go, “Son of a….,”, you know, and just get upset and feel it for a second. But then I just moved on.

And so I applied that in every area of life, not just my career, not just sales. So when I would be in traffic, I remember when I literally can picture myself on the freeway in Sacramento, when I had this first time I realized this applied to traffic. And this is for anybody, you don’t have to get cancer or be in a horrific car accident to apply the five-minute rule and apply this idea of accepting the things you can’t change. But, when I was in traffic one day I went, I was frustrated, I was running late, and I was just going through my head, just all the thing “Oh, I’m gonna lose this appointment, or I’m gonna lose this…” and all this stuff. Things that were all out of my control and I went, “Wait a minute, I can’t change the pace of the cars in front of me, I can’t change that I’m running late, and I can’t change the way the person reacts when I get there, that’s not up to me. But I can choose how I spend every moment in this car.” And to me, this is a metaphor for life. We can choose how we spend every moment of our lives regardless of what’s going on around us. It doesn’t matter what’s going on around us, it’s what’s going on inside of us that determines our emotional well-being and our quality of life. And so traffic became a sense of joy for me. I went, “Hey, when I’m in traffic, I’m just gonna be grateful, I’m gonna be grateful for everything I’d be grateful for.” It’s a time to slow down and think, you know.

And then the day I was diagnosed with cancer, because I had 20 years of practice or 17 years at that time of practicing this five-minute rule. The day I was diagnosed with cancer, I called my wife because she was out of town when I found out, and I was told I had a 30% chance of surviving. And I called her and I said, “Sweetheart, what I’m going to tell you is probably going to be the hardest thing I’ve ever told you. But I wanna preface it by saying I believe this is the best thing that’s ever happened to me. It’ll probably be the most difficult thing that’s ever happened to me and for our family, but I believe it’s the best thing because this is going to give me the greatest opportunity to learn, and to grow, and to become better than I’ve ever been before as a husband, as a father, as a leader, as a human being, and I also believe it’s gonna allow me to impact more people than I have ever even imagined.” And, you know, I will be honest, she did not take that same stance of it being the best thing that ever happened that day. In fact, I don’t know if she’s still quite there yet.

But, yeah, but I mean, it really stemmed from that simple realization that there’s no value in feeling sorry for yourself or dwelling on something after the fact, after it’s already happened. And sadly, I mean, a lot of people are suffering over their childhood. They’re still suffering over things because when they, you know, abuse or something that happened when we were kids, and we think it’s the abuse that’s causing us pain to this day, but it’s not abuse, it’s that we haven’t made the decision to just accept it and be at peace with it. So, yeah, so that for me was the biggest difference.

Katie: That’s amazing. And you mentioned your parents as well. As a mom of six, I just thought about how amazing and tangible that is to use with our kids, you know, when they’re upset, or they’re facing something, give them those five minutes. And I’ve had, like a neuroscientist and movement specialist on here before that said, you know, kids are great because they actually do express their emotions with their body and they shake it out, and they yell, and they do all that. But give them a time limit on it, and be like, “You know what? get it all out.”

Hal: Yeah. And then that empowers them like, “Hey, I’m setting the timer, do whatever you want,” right? Like, give them a punching bag, you know what I mean? Make it fun, you know. And then, you know, they could literally be upset and then kind of laughing and, you know, and it’ll help them get through it faster. That’s a great connection of parenting. Yeah.

Katie: Yeah, I love that. And you’ve also mentioned the word miracle a couple of times, and I’m truly impressed by your ability to keep a really positive mindset in the face of some pretty drastic life, you know, challenges. But I’m curious how you would define the word miracle, because I feel like that word can maybe have different meanings to a lot of different people.

Hal: Yeah, I’m glad you asked that because you’re right. It’s a really loaded word. And I think that for a lot of people, it has a bad rap. And it has a bad rap for a few different reasons, right? I think the biggest one is, miracles are thought of as random passive acts or events. And if you’re religious, maybe you believe that, you know, God creates miracles, right? So you really, you know, all you can do is pray and then, but again, passively sit back and wait, right? Or hope.

I personally am a big believer in personal responsibility, right? You know, with my car accident, I took ownership. “I’m going to walk again.” With cancer, “I’m going to beat cancer.” With “The Miracle Morning,” “I’m going to change millions of lives.” Like, I’m not gonna hope that Oprah finds me. I’m not gonna hope that, you know, this miracle drops in my lap. I believe in the power of personal responsibility. And I really believe that, you know, along those lines, that, to the degree that we take responsibility for everything in our lives determines the degree of power that we have, personal power to change or affect things in our lives.

And so the way that I define miracle is really more of a practical, actionable, and even measurable way. And so I define miracle as any meaningful outcome that is beyond the realm of what you currently believe is probable for you. I’ll break that down. Any meaningful outcome, right? So, you know, for me it was beating cancer, doesn’t get much more, when your life’s on the line, there’s no more outcome more meaningful than living, right? Than actually making it through. When I had the car accident it was walking again. When I was, you know, with my career, right? It was, I wanted to reach millions of people with this Miracle Morning message, and I didn’t know how to do that. I didn’t have an audience, I didn’t have a platform, I didn’t have anything, you know, and by the way, I will tell you, my goal was to do it in one year, and I was 99.9% short of my goal the first year. I was 99.7% short of my goal still up to the second year, and it took me six years, but I just kept at it, I kept at it, I kept at it.

So, any meaningful outcome beyond the realm of what you currently believe is probable for you. And that word probable is important, I didn’t say possible. And the reason is this. If you’re an optimist, which I would consider myself, an optimist to the point of delusion. Like I’m very optimistic, right? It’s worked out for me, but I always say there’s a fine line between optimism and delusion, and I do cross it, you know, quite often. But, I’d err on that side I think and be okay with that. But, we don’t pursue that which is possible, right? So if you’re an optimist, you believe anything is possible, but we don’t pursue that which is possible, we pursue that which is probable, right? Katie, think about it, like, you know, when is the last time that you or that anybody, you know, was like, “I have this goal, this dream, and I think that the odds of me achieving it are slim to none, so I’m gonna give it everything I have.” Right? Like, we don’t work that way.

And that’s why most people, sadly, that’s what my new book “The Miracle Equation” is all about. Is it’s like, how do you move your biggest goals from possible, to probable, to inevitable. Because, for most people, we have these big goals and these dreams and these things we’d love to achieve but because we don’t believe they’re probable we never even try. What’s probable is, “Hey, I know that if I show up to work, I’ll get a paycheck, and I can at least buy food and pay my rent, or my mortgage, and my car payment.” And that, at least there’s certainty, at least that’s probable. So I’m gonna keep doing that because I don’t know that all these goals and dreams and the life that I really want, I don’t know that it’s very probable.

In fact, what we do is we check what I call our rearview mirror in our subconscious mind, and we look for evidence of what’s probable, and if we’ve never done something before, right? If you wanna start a business, or write a book, or, you know, lose weight, or whatever the goal or dream, whatever your goals or dreams are. If we check the rearview and we go, “Gosh, there’s nothing in my past that shows, that gives me evidence that I could do these things, I’ve never done them.” But if you look at the world’s most fulfilled people, successful people, happy people that have made the biggest impact in the world and even just in their own lives, they all had to step out on faith. And I’m talking about faith in themselves, that they could do something that when they checked their rearview, there was no evidence they could do it. They had never done it before.

But you have to do that, you have to step out on faith. And that’s the first step. Stepping out on faith is the first step to move your biggest goals and dreams from possible, which is existing in a void of nothingness. Everything is possible, and nothing is…right? Like possibility, it doesn’t matter what’s possible, you have to move your big goals from possible to probable, and the first step in doing that is stepping out on the faith. And I believe doing it in writing, right? Putting it in writing, so that you have, it’s tangible, it’s physical, you can hold it in your hands or at least, you know, look at it on your iPhone. But just step out on faith that you can do something that you’ve never done before.

And that first step, just the step of considering it, right? And putting it on paper is considering it not just as a thought in your head that’s fleeting, but actually where it’s a little more tangible. And then once you consider it, start to read that every day and marinate it, and then support it with, what if that were to happen? Why would that be meaningful to me? How could that change my life? How could that change my family’s life, right? And write those things down, put them in front of you, look at them every day and then, I think was Mark Victor Hansen. I love when he said this, and I remember this, I saw him give a speech, gosh, 10 years ago. And he said, “Look, people never make changes…” and I’m paraphrasing of course, but he said, “People never make changes because they think they have to go from where they are now to where they wanna be and they’ve got to like make one leap there, you know, or make a complete 180.” And he said, “That’s challenging, that’s mentally challenging to even think about that.” He said, “Don’t try to make a leap.” He said, “Just lean into the changes that you wanna make.”

And that’s what I’m talking about here, right? As you write it on paper, well, what might my dream look like? What might that tangible, measurable miracle look like? What would that look like? And then support it with some, you know, some bullet points underneath. What would life be like if I were to do that? And then ask yourself how, how might I do that?

And the first step is often a Google search, right? People are coming, they’re like, “I wanna write a book, but don’t even know where to start.” I go, “Have you googled how the words, “how to write a book?”” And they go, “No,” I go, “That’s pretty low hanging fruit. I would start there,” right? And all of a sudden, you’re gonna have 10,000 articles that will tell you exactly how to do what you now think you have no idea how to do, you’re five seconds away from learning how to do it, right?

So, the point is, and this is a long answer to your question, but, a miracle is any meaningful outcome outside the realm of what you believe is probable for you. And the first step in achieving said miracle is to step out on faith, put it in writing of what that miracle would be for you, what that big goal or dream would be for you. And then just start leaning, leaning into it.

And if you’ve waited years, you know, if you’ve spent your entire life not pursuing your biggest goals and dreams, well, what’s another, you know, just start and just, you don’t need to rush. Just take the next month to just journal about it, just journal for a month, right? What would it look like? What would that make your life like? How might you do that, right? And just lean into it, and then you can start to actually formulate a plan.

And then, by the way, the second decision of “The Miracle Equation” is extraordinary effort. And that’s where, that doesn’t mean that you need to work 80 hours a week, right? That just means doing one thing every day. That just means leaning every day. Extraordinary effort is not about working long, hard hours, it can be, but that’s not what it has to be, it’s about consistent effort. If you do one thing every day that moves you closer to your goal or dream, your success is inevitable, the only variable is timing. And most people, they just never get out the gate. Because they check that rearview mirror and they go, “Yeah, nothing in my past says that I can create this extraordinary future.” But, you can. And then one day, you’ll look in your past, you go, “Wow, I can create anything I want for my life.”

Katie: I love that. I think two important things that I’ve noticed in my own life that you just mentioned, is that consistency variable. Certainly, my husband and I often say doing the right things long enough, consistently, and it takes all of that. But I also love that you brought up taking ownership and extreme ownership, because that’s another thing I really have tried to instill in my kids and in my own life. Because I think it’s one of the most freeing things we can do. Like you said, we have no control over the things that happen to us in a lot of cases. Certainly not how other people may talk to us, or act toward us. But we always do have control of our own reaction and our own actions in our life. And so I think when you make that mental switch it’s a whole new world of freedom. And I love that you talk about that so much.

Also, I feel like, especially with “The Miracle Morning” there’s a lot of people in the world who know a lot of the good things that we should be doing. And we know that we should, you know, eat healthier, and exercise more, and get enough sleep, and all of these things, and meditate, and journal. And it’s the actual tangible shift, like making that actual habit is often the most difficult part. So I’m curious if you have any tools for people to make those changes stick, or to really truly commit them into a habit.

Hal: Yeah, a couple of things. Number one is, when I was writing “The Miracle Morning,” that was my biggest insecurity as I was writing is I go, “How am I gonna get people to actually do it?” Right? Because I’m like, because I go, “Everything I’m saying makes sense.” They’re gonna be like, “Yeah, this is good I should do this.” But, you know, I was going, most people have a limiting belief that says, I am not a morning person. That’s the majority of society when surveyed, it’s like 72% I think say, “I’m not a morning person,” it might be higher than that. And I thought, “How am I gonna enter into a conversation that they’ve had in their head for the last, you know, 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, 50 years, their entire lifetime that says, “No, no, I’m officially not a morning person, like been there, done that, tried it, like doesn’t work for me, like, I’m a night owl,” you know. And so that was my biggest insecurity.

So I will just say this. The fact that now well over a million people around the world do “The Miracle Morning” on, you know, an average of like five to six days a week, is evidence that you can do it too, right? I don’t just mean do it being “The Miracle Morning,” but do it being the things that you need to do, and I’m gonna will unpack, you know, to answer your question, kind of how to do that. And there’s a few things, the first and foremost, right? And we talked kind of a lot of what I just talked about with the leaning into it, right? Just start small, put it on paper, right? And “The Miracle Morning” it’s a really great tool to start, and I’m not saying this because I wrote it and I’ll make $1 if you buy it. I’m saying this because I’ve seen this transform so many people’s lives, right? Millions of lives, is that how you start your day sets the tone, the direction, and the context for the rest of the day. In other words, a way I like to put that, and actually this is from Steve Pavlina who I was…I read his book when I was writing “The Miracle Morning.” He said, “If you win the morning, you win the day,” right?

So, most people start their day with a lack of self-discipline and procrastination is how they start it. So meaning, if you hit the snooze button, that is, by default, procrastination, you are procrastinating on starting your day. And, you know, I say in the book, I say it kind of jokingly but seriously, I say, you think about how crazy it is to, you know, we all wanna have this amazing, happy, successful, extraordinary life. But when the alarm goes off in the morning, that is life’s first gift to you, it’s life’s first opportunity and it’s also life’s first challenge. And most people, the alarm goes off and it’s like we’re saying to the universe or to our own being, our own selves, saying, “Yeah, I know I say I want an extraordinary life, but not as much as I wanna lay here unconscious for nine more minutes,” right? And then we hit the snooze button and then it goes off again and you’re like, “Yeah, I wanna be happier and healthier and more successful, but I’d rather lay here for nine more minutes.” And we’re literally giving a message to our subconscious that says, “I don’t have the discipline to get my butt out of bed in the morning, let alone create the extraordinary life that I really want.”

However, if you can change that one habit, and that’s what “The Miracle Morning” I think worked, it’s doing this for so many people and it really is a miracle is, if you can learn how to, and that’s, you know, the book teaches you like, how do you beat the snooze button if you’re not a morning person. And I can give you guys, in fact, let me right now, I don’t wanna keep you like in mystery and make you buy the book, like here’s how. There’s a whole chapter on this in the book, it’s called “The Five Step Snooze-Proof Wake Up Strategy.” And I’ll just give you the most important step.

The most important step is, move your alarm clock across the room. Actually, there’s two, number one is set your intentions before bed. So, before bed, you need to say, “I’m waking up tomorrow at this time, even if I feel tired.” And actually have a…you can actually download, if you go to tmmbook.com, as in “The Miracle Morning” TMM tmmbook.com you can download the “Bedtime Affirmation.” And this is what I used in my own life and then I put it, you know, as a bonus for the book. But it’s word-for-word how to set your intentions the night before so that when you wake up in the morning…when the alarm goes off in the morning, you like jump out of bed and you’re excited. And if you think about any time, Katie, that you were excited to wake up in the morning. Like did you celebrate Christmas growing up for example?

Katie: Yeah, absolutely.

Hal: Okay, so I always when…I’m cautious when I say that because if someone didn’t celebrate Christmas, I don’t wanna, you know, what’s the word I’m looking for? You know, like make you feel left out. So think about like the first day of school, or a vacation, just think of any time in your life when you went to bed like a schoolgirl, right? Or a schoolboy, just excited like, “I can’t wait for the morning,” you know, and for me it was Christmas, you know, as a kid. And, Katie, let me ask you, but was it hard for you to wake up Christmas morning?

Katie: Definitely not. It was hard to stay asleep on Christmas morning.

Hal: Exactly. So I’m guessing you did not snooze on Christmas morning, correct?

Katie: Definitely not.

Hal: So here’s what that shows. That shows that we all have the ability to wake up and jump out of bed. But what was the difference? You had the intention before bed to wake up the next morning with excitement and enthusiasm because there was something you were looking forward to. And when I was not writing “The Miracle Morning” before it was a book, when I was doing “The Miracle Morning” in my own life, I realized I have the ability to wake up excited. I know I do because if there’s ever something I’m excited to wake up for I wake up. But most of us wake up and we’re like, “Oooh” or we go to bed and our intention is the opposite of excitement it’s, “Urgh, I gotta wake up tomorrow at 6 AM and go to work again, and I don’t wanna do that.”

And I went, “I have the ability to wake up excited every day.” But I have to take response-ability to access that ability by creating my own intention before I go to bed of what the morning is going to be like. So, in my mind, in my body, in my emotions, before I go to bed, I set my intention for what I’m going to feel and do when I wake up in the morning. And most people are very unintentional about the morning. They leave the morning up to those first few moments when the alarm goes off, it’s usually on our bedside table, and our level of self-discipline is close to a zero, maybe it’s a one or a two, right? You just reach over you hit the snooze button, you reach over you hit the snooze button.

So the first step is setting your intention before bed. And if you want a map on how…a word-for-word approach on how to do that, go to tmmbook.com you can get the free, you know, thing, the bedtime affirmation. But the second logistical step is you have to move your alarm clock as far across the room as possible. If you can reach it on your bedside table, even if I set my intention, I’ll still usually fail because I turn it off, I hit the snooze button while I’m still half asleep, right? And so, for me, the alarm clock is across the room, it’s actually in my bathroom, which is within hearing distance, you have to able to hear it, but that forces me out of bed, across the room.

So if you do that alone, that starts your day with intention, it starts it with purpose, it starts it with discipline. And now, and then you go do your Miracle Morning. And now you’re, the point of “The Miracle Morning” is really to put yourself in a peak physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual state every day, so that you are at your best. You are, and essentially think of it this way, every day, “The Miracle Morning” ensures that you become a better version of the person you were when you went to bed the night before. And when you start your day like that, it’s hard to not have a great day, like you are on fire and you win the morning and then you’re the best version of yourself to win the day.

So, you know, that, to me is like the linchpin strategy, it’s the one thing you do that affects everything else. And I’ll cut myself off and then, you know, I could talk for an hour on strategies of getting yourself to do the things that you know you need to do that you don’t feel like you have the discipline to do. I mean, we can go a little deeper on that. But first, Katie, any thoughts, questions, or comments on that?

Katie: No, I love that. And I would love to go deeper on that because I think you explain it really well, and what I’ve read of your work. And I think that is the biggest struggle for so many people, because I see people and I’ve done it myself, get in that cycle of like, “You know, I’m gonna start training for a new thing.” And I’m like all about it for three weeks, and then it kind of dies down, or that you eat really clean for three weeks and then it dies down. So how do we maintain that? Like, how do we, even if it’s that thing that so exciting to us, how do we maintain that enthusiasm over the long time?

Hal: So, I’ll tell you an external and an internal strategy. The external strategy I’ll start with which is, accountability. I believe that accountability is arguably one of the, if not the single most determinant factors in taking ourselves to the next level. And if you think about it, you look at the world’s most successful anybody, right? Meaning athletes, CEOs, they all have a high degree of accountability. And it’s a huge factor in their success. You know, show me an athlete, especially as they were younger, you know, growing up, right? Maybe they hit a level of maturity where they don’t need as much accountability of course. But, you know, I don’t think you’ll find an athlete that doesn’t credit their coach. If they didn’t have practice scheduled every day at 3 pm with a coach that would kick their butt off the team if they weren’t there on time, they probably wouldn’t have practiced, they would have been at home playing video games, right?

You know, you look at a CEO, you know, 40 or 50-year-old CEO, if they didn’t have to answer, look at all the accountability in their world. They have stockholders they have to answer to, they have an executive assistant, they have an executive board, they have employees, they have just a general company. And if it wasn’t for all those sources of accountability, they’d probably be screwing off a lot more. But, you know, as they’re screwing off, and they’re watching a YouTube video, and then they go, “Oh, shoot, I’ve got that meeting at 2.” Well, that meeting is a source of accountability that gets them off the YouTube video, or off of, you know, Words With Friends on their phone, and gets them to do the thing they need to do. And if it wasn’t for the source of accountability, they probably wouldn’t do it.

Now, what we have to realize is, why we resist and resent accountability. And once you understand the source of resistance, then you go, “Oh, okay, it is time for us all to grow up,” and I include myself in this, and actually embrace accountability. So you think about this. I believe the reason most human beings resist, resent, and avoid accountability at all costs, is because it was forced upon us as children when our brains were developing. You think about, you know, my parents made sure I ate my vegetables. I didn’t wanna eat my vegetables. If it wasn’t for the accountability from mom and dad, I would not have eaten those vegetables, right? I didn’t wanna take a bath. But they made me take a bath. They held me accountable to take a bath. Most days I didn’t wanna go to school, right? Unless you’re one of those weird kids that loves, my daughter loves school, but I was like, “I don’t wanna go to school,” right? But they got me out of bed, they had to fight me out of bed and I went to school. My teachers held me accountable to turn homework in, and study, and take tests, and so on and so forth.

If it wasn’t for the accountability that was forced upon us by the adults in our lives as kids, I think that most of us would be malnutritioned, uneducated, dirty little kids, right? But what happened was, we didn’t ask for any of that accountability. And whenever nobody was looking, we avoided it, because it was forced on us. And then the problem is, we turn 18 and maybe, you know, you leave the nest, you go off to college, and I don’t know about you, but I ate junk, I was like, “Screw vegetables.” I lived jack-in-the-box. Looking back, I don’t even know how I didn’t have a heart attack at like 20, you know, but I ate jack-in-the-bo…I’m like, “Screw I’m eating whatever I want.” I’m staying up till 2, 3, 4, 5 am playing video games I’m…Like, it was a downward spiral of mediocrity for me.

And if it wasn’t for me finding a mentor at age 19 when I started selling Cutco, and him getting my stuff together, you know, and holding me accountable. And that’s it, I had accountability gifted back into my life. And because of that, I became the person that I am today. I developed discipline, and consistency, and self-belief, and the various attributes of an achiever.

And why did I develop those? Because of accountability, in all fact, I’ll tell you how much accountability I had. The first 10 days when I broke that company record, I didn’t break that company record. I mean, I did, but it was because of my mentor. I had to call him every morning when I woke up at a specific time, I had to call him at 7 am. So I was awake and ready to be on the phone by 7 am. Then I had to call him after every single appointment that I did during those 10 days and let him know how I went. And that was so he can manage my mindset and expectations because I was new to sales and I had a lot of no sales, a lot of disappointment. He would remind me it was okay and keep going and this and that. I had to call him after every single appointment, I had to call at the end of every day.

So, his philosophy was, he wanted to wake me up every morning and he wanted to put me to bed so he could manage my expectations, and that level of accountability. So I did 62 appointments, so I talked to him probably 90 times, at least 90 times, you can imagine making 90 phone calls to someone. And because of that accountability, I broke the all-time company record. Now, I earned it, I was 19 I earned $3,800 during those 10 days, which was a fortune for me, you know, for most people it’s a lot of money, it was an insane amount of money. And who I am, I literally can look back, those 10 days shaped who I am today. And accountability was the number one key to that. And so I would…in fact, we’ll just I mean, we can leave it at that, that’s it.

And in “The Miracle Morning” I talk about that in the book, how important accountability is. I encourage everyone to find an accountability partner. And, if you are wondering, “Well, I’m interested in this, but most of my friends or co, like they’re not into this kind of stuff,” you know, maybe they are maybe they aren’t. The Miracle Morning Community is a Facebook group that I would invite everyone to join. It’s free, we’re not selling anything there. Right now there are 200 and last time I checked 219,000 people from over 100 countries in there. And arguably, you go in there, just scan through the posts, and you will be inspired. It is one of if not the most loving, non-judgmental, supportive, growth-oriented communities on or offline that I have ever seen. Case studies are being done right now about this community.

And you can go in there and let people know what time zone you’re in, and, you know, and that you want an accountability partner. And typically you’ll find one, you know, within an hour, and someone that’s on this journey with you. And when you go in there you find there are people that have been doing “The Miracle Morning” for, you know, over 1,000 days, and there are people that will just like you, it’ll be day one for them. But yeah, it’s great, it’s called The Miracle Morning Community. You can also go to miraclemorning.com and just scroll down, there’s a big picture that says “Join the community.” And, you know, it’ll take you over there. So, either way, you can find it.

Katie: Awesome. I’ll make sure that’s linked in the show notes as well, at wellnessmama.fm. When it comes to a morning routine, do you think that there are specific, like a framework that is pretty much good for everyone? Or are there like different variables that are gonna work better or worse for different people? And if so, how do you identify which things need to be in your own Miracle Morning?

Hal: Yeah, it’s a great question. So, in the book, Chapter 9 out of 10 I think, it’s like one of the last, Chapter 9 is “Customizing The Miracle Morning to fit your lifestyle.” And then Chapter 10 is “The Miracle Morning 30-Day Challenge.” And we could actually, that would, you know, that’s something I could touch on is like, how do you change your behavior? You lean into it, and then you commit to a 30-Day Challenge. Meaning you do it every day, you have someone holding you accountable. And at the end of those 30 days, you’ve acclimated to this new habit, and it could be a habit of getting rid of a bad habit like, you know, quitting soda, or smoking. Or it could be a habit like, you know, adding a morning routine when you’ve never been a morning person.

And again, I mean, you think about, if you’re at all having self-doubt around this because maybe you’ve tried and failed in the past to make changes. You know, there are hundreds of thousands of people in that Facebook group that will tell you, “Hey, I didn’t know I could do it. I didn’t think I could do it. And I did it. And I’m now a morning person,” right?

Customizing it. Yeah. So, yeah, so customizing it. So, the way that I encourage folks, like I’m a very big believer in, A, I don’t know it all. In fact, I know closer to nothing than all, right? I’m a big believer in that I should be a student of life, student of everything. But so I don’t think that I know it all, first of all. Number two, I rarely think there’s a one-size-fit-all for everybody. I don’t think that exists too often.

However, “The Miracle Morning” is made up of six practices, which I mentioned earlier. But let me give you a more memorable framework. This is my brilliant wife, I was writing the book and I go, “Sweetie, I’ve got these six practices. These are like the most timeless personal development practices in the history of humanity. But I need a way to like organize them so people can remember them or they like flow together.” I said, “All these authors are so smart, and, you know, they, Stephen habit has got like “The 7 Habits” oh, sorry, Stephen Covey has got “The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People” and Robert Kiyosaki has got like the “Cashflow Quadrant.” And all these authors are smart enough to create like a framework and I don’t know any way to connect these six practices.” And she goes, “Why don’t you consult a Thesaurus and see if you can arrange some of the wording so it creates an acronym that people can remember.” And I, you know, gave her a big kiss on the lips. I’m like, “You’re so brilliant.” I’m like, “That might work,” right?

And so, meditation became silent, which I actually like because a lot of people like to incorporate prayer into their silence time, right? And journaling became scribing, which, you know, it’s a fancy word for writing, but it created an acronym which could not be more fitting for what the practice is. And the acronym is SAVERS, or I call these the lifesavers, right? But S-A-V-E-R-S, so, the first S is for silence, these are the six practices of “The Miracle Morning” by the way. The first S is for silence, the A is for affirmations, the V is for visualization, the E is for exercise, the R is for reading, and the S is for scribing, right? So those are the SAVERS, and I believe it’s the perfect acronym. Because these literally are the six practices that have proven over centuries, that they can save you, and save me, and save all of us from missing out on the life that we really want, you know, missing out on living to our full potential. So they really are the lifesavers, right? It’s such a fitting acronym.

And what I encourage people to do is, for the 30-Day Challenge, do all six of these, because you don’t fully know the benefits, or if something resonates with you until you actually give it a fighting chance, right? Give it a fair chance. So do all the six of the SAVERS for 30 days.

Now, you can customize the order. And you can even change the order over time. You can experiment and play with these, right? So, give you an example. I start with meditate…I start with silence. Many people, though, and I don’t the percentage, but a lot of people have said, “Hal, gosh, you know, I tried meditating, but then I fall back to sleep.” They go, “I’m not awake enough for it to, you know, like I need to start with exercise.” So they move the E to the front, and they wake up, and they do some stretching, and some yoga, and some jumping jacks, and push-ups, and run, whatever they want, right?

And then in terms of the duration, the SAVERS, the first day I did the savers, I did 10 minutes each, just because it was my first day I thought doing an hour I’ll do 10 minutes each, right? And then that works. I’ve evolved where I usually do 30 minutes of reading, and then I do five minutes of the other SAVERS roughly five to six minutes, I guess is what it would be. But, so I like to read longer. And so I just I meditate for six minutes. I do the other ones for shorter periods of time.

Exercise, I do an app, there’s an app called 7 Minute Workout. And it’s a great app. It’s a full-body workout in seven minutes. In the book, in that chapter, there’s something called the 6-Minute Miracle Morning. And this came about because most of us have an all-or-nothing mentality, which is like, “Oh, I woke up late, or, today I have to leave early so I’ve only got like 10 minutes or 15 minutes. So I guess I’ll skip my Miracle Morning today.”

And one day I had that internal dialogue and I went, “Wait a minute, what if I were to just do one minute of each of the savers? What if I were to sit down and just close my eyes and just meditate and get calm for one minute. And then I pull up my affirmations and I read them for a minute. And then I close my eyes I visualize, you know, my most important priorities being executed flawlessly today for just a minute. And then I jump up and I do a 60 seconds of jumping jacks get my heart rate flowing, get the blood going right for a minute. And I pull out a self-help book that I’m reading, and I just read a page for a minute, and then I journal what I’m grateful for just a minute.”

And I did that that day, and I went, the benefits. It’s like I got 80% of the benefit with 1/10th of the time. And there aren’t too many things you can do with that, you know, get that kind of return on investment, and I went, “This is incredible.” And that’s why I put it in the book, because I go, “Look, I don’t advocate that you do a six-minute every day, you can’t go that deep. But, it just shows that it doesn’t have to be all or nothing.” So, the answer to your question is, I would start your first miracle winning 30-Day Challenge. And by the way, most people their 30-day challenge when I give a speech and, you know, people aren’t necessarily reading the book yet. They don’t have, some of them don’t have the book yet. I always say, look, for your first 30 days, just start your challenge by waking up 30 minutes earlier, don’t even go the full hour, just make it easy. Just lean into it, right? Lean into it, 30 minutes earlier, and just do the R, just read, that’s it. It couldn’t be easier. Wake up 30 minutes earlier and just read “The Miracle Morning.”

And then once you get to the chapter on the SAVERS and you start reading about the S, and I teach you a really simple meditation practice, right? Then you can incorporate S and R. And then when you get to the section on, you know, the next day on affirmations, add A, and just lean into it gradually. And then at the end of the 30 days, you can decide what you wanna do. I don’t visualize every day, for whatever reason, visualization has never resonated with me. But I do use it if I’m going to have a specific thing I’m doing, like if I’m giving a speech, I’ll run through a movie in my mind of visualization. But there’s some people in The Miracle Morning Community I often will survey and go, “Which SAVERS do you like better than others, which resonate?” And it blows my mind that some people like visualization is the number one thing that impacts their life and their day. For me it’s affirmations, and some people they go, “Yeah, I don’t jive, I don’t, I struggle with that,” right?

So I always say, for the first 30 days, do all six of the Savers, play with the order, play with the duration of each, and then at the end of 30 days, create your own Miracle Morning. And then while you’re doing, the beauty of it is, “The Miracle Morning” takes a minute to learn, a lifetime to master. Because, you know, meditation I mean, I’ve read, you know, master meditators say that after 10 years of meditating every day, they started to feel like they were getting pretty good at it. Ten years, right? And then after 20 years, they started to feel like they were starting to kind of master it. And then 30 years, they actually mastered it, and I’m like, so each of the SAVERS, you can just, you can play with, you can adjust, you can keep them fresh, you can try new modalities. New affirmations, new methods of visualization, you can do guided meditations, you can do meditation apps, right? So I mean, these are, it’s really this free-flowing ritual that you get to customize and create and add to.

Katie: I love it and I’ll make sure to recap those in the show notes and of course, put a link to the book so people can really dive in.

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Katie: Our time has flown by. You’re such an eloquent speaker. A few questions I love to ask at the end. The first being, are there a few things that you feel like people either don’t know or misunderstand about what you teach?

Hal: Yeah, I think that one is the idea that “The Miracle Morning” is about waking up earlier. Now, granted, I mean, A, you may need to wake up earlier depending on if you wake up now at the last minute. Most people wake up because they have to, right? They literally go, “What’s the last minute that I can wake up and not like lose my job, have my children taken away from me, get divorced, right?” I call it your mediocre morning, you know, where you’re like, it’s the last moment I could wake up and not have my life fall apart.

Now, if you’re waking up in that way, then yeah, you need to back up the alarm 30 minutes. But a lot of people wake up and they just, the first, you know, half-hour of their day, or hour of their day is spent just checking Facebook, and scrolling their phone, and checking e-mail. So, it’s really not about waking up earlier as much as it’s about waking up better. It’s waking up and dedicating the first part of your day to elevating your own consciousness, putting yourself in that peak physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual state so you can become a better version of who you were when you went to bed the night before. That’s the first thing, is it? It’s not about, you know, getting up super early. It’s just getting up a little earlier. And the benefits though are so profound that, trust me, it’s worth going to bed 30 minutes earlier if that’s what it takes, right? Thirty minutes less of Netflix at night to have a radical shift in your life is very worth it.

And then the other thing that I would share is that, personal development is not enough. That is actually, my new book that just came out “The Miracle Equation” that’s kind of why I wrote it, is that, I’ve been in the past I’ve been guilty of being what I would call a personal development junkie. And I think a lot of us fall into this trap where, once we learn personal development, we start reading books, and listening to podcasts, and learning all these new ideas, you know, we get excited and we’re like, “Wow, I’m like,” and we start almost our ego can get fed like, “Wow, I like I know more than other people. Other people aren’t reading. All my friends and family aren’t reading these books, and listening to the show, learning this stuff. And they need to, like I’m smarter than they are,” right? So that’s one thing is ego can get, you know, become a part of it. I think when I was younger that was for sure part of my journey.

But just a big part of it is, we actually trick our brain, our subconscious into thinking that learning and growing in and of itself is enough to improve our lives. And while it improves our lives at a certain level, like, you know, if you learn new ways of looking at life, like the things we talk, like the five-minute rule for example, right? That’s like an internal thing that you learn and if you implement it, you start to see that, “Wow, I can be free from my emotional pain, like I don’t need to feel, I don’t need to dwell on things and feel sorry, I can just let them go after five minutes.”

That does change your life, but for the most part, we have to actually change our behavior to change our life. And what the problem is, when you think that just learning is enough to change your life. You know, reading books on finances doesn’t increase your income. Reading books on finances doesn’t increase your savings, right? Reading books on finance or on being healthier doesn’t make you healthier, right? You actually have to change your behavior.

And so while “The Miracle Morning” is arguably one of the most effective practices for personal development, you have to compliment it, you have to follow it up with a process for goal achievement. And that’s what “The Miracle Equation” is, is it’s, okay, you’re learning in the morning, you’re doing your Miracle Morning, you’re growing, you’re evolving, you’re elevating your own consciousness, you’re becoming a better version of yourself. Great. But you can do that and still stay in the comfy confines of your comfort zone, right? Like stay in your house and keep going to work and not doing anything differently. You’ve got to have, “Okay, I need a process. I need a method for getting out of my comfort zone and actually getting clear on defining, clarifying, planning my biggest goals and dreams. And creating a process that will make my success in achieving those goals and dreams inevitable.”

And that is, so that’s, to me, the biggest mistake people make is thinking that the personal development is enough, it’s only half the equation so to speak. And I wrote, “The Miracle Equation” is that is the, “Okay, now, here’s the process for goal achievement that will support your practice that you have for personal development. So you can actually take this growth that you’re experiencing and turn it into a tangible, upgraded reality that creates measurable results in your life.”

Katie: Hmm, such a good point. Secondly, is there a book or a number of books that have drastically changed your life? And if so, what they are and why?

Hal: Yeah, the book that changed my life, probably more than anything is called “Conversations with God.” And it is, you know, I always, the word God is also like miracle, it’s a loaded word. And some people are religious, and some people are spiritual, and some people are atheist. And so, you know, you get a lot of different reactions. I read that book when I was 20 years old, and, by the way, to be very transparent, you know, I grew up Catholic. I then started studying a lot of the world’s religions and just I’m happy to help people, you know, where I kind of my stance on this is. To me, I seek truth and wisdom in all religion in all spiritual practices, even in atheism. Like, to me I try to look at all of it and not think that there’s one right way and that everybody else is wrong, that my way is the right way. And I try to go, “Hey, everyone has their…” You know, I’m looking for truth always and to me like I said I lean toward I know nothing, or I know very little compared to what I can learn. So I’m just trying to learn and grow.

So “Conversation with God” it’s definitely not a religious book. I would say it’s a spiritual book for sure. But, yeah, I read that when I was 20. And, you know, in the author Neale Donald Walsch, just, you know, “Conversation with God” book four which it’s like technically I think he’s written over a dozen books. I’m actually reading book four right now, which is probably why that book is on my mind, you know, that whole series. But yeah, that’s a book that really opened my eyes and I’d encourage you to, you know, to read it with an open mind and consider it. And, yeah, that’s a book that for me was very, very, very impactful in how I live my life and how I view my life, and my purpose in life, and my place in this world, and how I can make the biggest, most positive impact.

Katie: That’s so good. I was actually on my Kindle right now. And I’m about to start reading and I’ll make sure it’s linked in the show notes.

Hal: That’s awesome. That’s so great. Wait, book one or book four?

Katie: The first one.

Hal: Oh, cool. Cool.

Katie: Yeah, excited. Any parting advice or takeaways you wanna make sure we leave with the audience today?

Hal: Yeah. There’s one that I, you know, for me, this has become a major affirmation, which, you know, I won’t go into, I won’t go down that rabbit hole. But I define affirmations as you’ll see in the book very differently than most people do. They’re not woo woo, it’s like really using affirmations to program your mind and your behaviors for success. And the way that, one of my most important affirmations, and this is the parting wisdom I’ll leave you with, is that, you know, as human beings I think that we all, we have trouble creating space in terms of time between where we are and where we want to be. We look at where other people are and we compare ourselves, or we look at where we think we should be or could be and we’re in this place of often scarcity. “Man, why am I not there right now? I wanna be there now.” And it’s, you know, our brain is not very patient, where it goes, “Okay, there’s where I wanna be, hmm, it might take me five years to get there, right? To get there, I need to find this journey and be at peace with where I am, and do something every day to move me close to where I am.” We just look at where we wanna be and go, “Urgh, I’m not there, why am I not there? Why is it taking so long? Why am I not?” You know? And we have these feelings of scarcity and inadequacy.

And so here’s the lesson. And I think that, you know, it probably took me hindsight to learn this and I share this, because I tell people don’t wait for hindsight, don’t suffer for years the way that most people do to get to this place. And here’s the lesson, is that, when we finally get to the place in our lives, when you finally get the place in your life or your business, any area of your life that you’ve been working so hard for, for so long. You’ve been wanting it for so long. You almost never look back and wish it would have happened any sooner.

Instead, when you get to the place that you’ve been working for so hard for so long, in any area of your life or just in your life as a whole, you look back and you go, “Oh, the timing and the journey were perfect. And every obstacle and setback along the way was a necessary part of my evolution to become the person that I needed to be to create the life that I’ve always wanted.” And with that hindsight, with that wisdom, to bring that into your life right now, the lesson is, the applicable lesson is, be at peace with where you are right now on your journey, even if it’s difficult or painful, while you maintain unwavering faith and put forth extraordinary effort to get to where you want to go. And know that when you finally get there, the timing will be perfect.

Katie: That’s a perfect place to put a pin in it for today. But, Hal, thank you so much for being here. I know that you are busy and it’s an honor to chat with you today.

Hal: You’re so welcome, Katie. Thank you for having me on. It’s an honor and you’re a special human being because I felt like that was, everything I talked about was like through me, like you brought out the best in me, the divine. So, yeah, you have some special Mojo, so, thank you.

Katie: Oh, thank you so much. And thanks to all of you for listening and sharing one of your most valuable assets, your time, with both of us today. We’re so grateful that you did. And I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of “The Wellness Mama” podcast.

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.

Thanks to Our Sponsors

This episode is sponsored by Fabletics, my current source for all my gym wear. In the last six months, I’ve discovered several new types of workouts that I’m loving. From group classes focused on flexibility, to high intensity work, to underwater weight and breath training, I’ve been loving trying new things and Fabletics has activewear for all of this.. And I wear one of their pieces pretty much every day. Their mission is to make affordable high quality workout wear available to all of us, and I love being a VIP member, which unlocks special benefits. Here’s how it works… when you go to fabletics.com/wellnessmama and take a 60-second quiz, it matches you with a showroom of styles designed for your body type and workout type. Before I forget, Fabletics is offering my listeners an incredible deal you don’t want to miss: Get 2 leggings for only $24 ($99 value) when you sign up for a VIP. Just go to fabletics.com/wellnessmama to take advantage of this deal now. That’s fabletics.com/wellnessmama to get 2 leggings for only $24. Also free shipping on orders over $49. International shipping is available and there is absolutely no commitment when you purchase your first order! https://fabletics.com/wellnessmama/
Here’s a tip: make sure you enter your email address to get notified about new styles and special. I’ve found out about some amazing sales through that link. I also personally recommend the power hold leggings which are awesome for everything from lifting weights to yoga.

This podcast is sponsored by Organifi, my source for super high quality superfood powders that are often part of my meals, especially when I travel. Green juice, their most popular drink, lets you incorporate farm fresh, gently dehydrated ingredients into your diet and lock in the extra vitamins and antioxidants. I just add to water and drink! It’s my go-to for veggies in the morning and is packed with chlorella for detox, spirulina and turmeric for detox as well as pain and inflammation, mint for improved digestion, matcha green tea for energy, and ashwagandha for cortisol and stress balance. Organifi also has a red juice with antioxidant-rich superfoods like cordyceps, reishi, and rhodiola plus an abundance of red berries. It’s sweet and fruity but low in sugar. It’s designed to fight aging, improve energy and metabolism, and sharpen cognition so I often drink it midday. And lastly, their the Organifi Gold drink is awesome at night and is filled with turmeric for skin health, ginger for achy muscles, turkey tail for immunity, and coconut milk for healthy saturated fat. Check all of these out at organifi.com/wellnessmama and use the code WELLNESS20 for 20% off.

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clean no 01:05:31 Katie Wells
284: Why Healthcare Sharing May Be the Future of Medicine With KNEW Healthhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/knew-health/ Mon, 02 Sep 2019 11:00:24 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=418250

There is a huge range of opinions when it comes to discussing the current state of healthcare, but one opinion seems almost universal: something needs to change! My guest today, James Maskell, is a true innovator for positive change in the health community. He has spent over 10 years now innovating at the cross-section of functional medicine and community, which we are going to explain in-depth today.

Just some of his accomplishments so far include creating the Functional Forum, the world’s largest integrative medicine conference, and writing a bestselling book called Evolution of Medicine, which is full of ideas about the future of medicine and how health professionals can work toward a predictive and preventative model. More recently he founded a new company called KNEW Health, which is an affordable alternative to health insurance specifically for health-conscious people.

Episode Highlights With KNEW Health

  • Why we need more functional medicine doctors
  • The difference between integrative and functional medicine
  • Why America is the best place to be for emergency care but the worst for a chronic illness
  • The shocking average cost of medical insurance for the average American family
  • Steps we can take to fix the system from the inside out
  • The reason community is necessary for health (in more ways than one)
  • Why medical group visits are the solution to loneliness
  • How KNEW health approach to copays
  • Whether cost-sharing model can really protect you if a big health problem strikes (I know a little about this one!)
  • And more!

Resources We Mention

Books James Recommends

More From Wellness Mama

Did you enjoy this episode? Please drop a comment below or leave a review on iTunes to let us know. We value knowing what you think and this helps other moms find the podcast as well.

Thanks to Our Sponsors

This podcast is brought to you by Thrive Market, a company I’ve loved for years and order from all the time. In fact, the majority of the non-perishable and frozen foods you’ll find in my house are from Thrive. If you haven’t checked them out, you definitely need to and you can get a completely risk free 30-day trial as a listener of this podcast at thrivemarket.com/wm. Here are just a few of the reasons you’ll love them: They have over 500 of their own Thrive Market brand products that are incredible quality and at amazing prices. These include everything from bulk ingredients and spices to chips, salsa, nuts, snacks, and things like tuna and sardines. These are all non-GMO and most are organic, and at prices cheaper than conventional alternatives in my local stores. They also have high quality meat and seafood as well… from completely grass fed meat to pastured pork and free range chicken and it’s all delicious. Thrive is essentially an online Costco meets Whole Foods online and at much better prices.

In my most recent order, you’d find a bunch of tuna and sardines, bulk nuts and spices, plantain and cassava chips, crackers, condiments and snacks…. All Thrive Market brand and all favorites at our house. If you haven’t, you’ve got to check it out. Go to thrivemarket.com/wm to start your 30-day free trial and see for yourself how awesome it is.

This podcast is brought to you by Genexa, a company revolutionizing over the counter products for children and families. Their products are all cleaner, healthier and allergen free versions of the products you already know and use. Genexa has a whole line of natural homeopathic remedies for sleep, reducing stress, allergy relief, jet lag and so much more. They’ve also developed a more natural alternative to other heartburn remedies, a truly clean vitamin D3 for infants and kids, natural saline rinse for infants, kids and adults, a pain crush roll on I’ve been using after tough workouts, a natural laxative and so much more. All of their products are vetted by an entire team of doctors to make sure they are safe, natural and effective. Check them out and save 20% just for being a listener of this podcast by going to genexa.com/wellnessmama and using the code WELLNESS.

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clean no 00:56:11 Katie Wells
283: A Whole-Person Approach to Health With Razi Berryhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/razi-berry/ Mon, 26 Aug 2019 11:00:55 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=418069

I have a feeling today’s episode will be especially personal and eye-opening for all of us. My guest today is my good friend, Razi Berry, who is the founder and publisher of the journal Naturopathic Doctor News & Review as well as the premier consumer-based website of naturopathic medicine, NaturalPath.net. Razi is also the host of the Natural Cancer Prevention Summit and The Heart Revolution,” as well as the ever-popular Ten-Week Sugar-Free Summer Program.

Aside from all of her credentials, Razi has an incredible health story to tell, from a near-death experience as a young girl that healed her heart to later overcoming infertility, chronic fatigue, and fibromyalgia through naturopathic medicine. If you’ve ever wondered about the mind-body connection (or felt like the whole idea was a little out there), this just might be the episode that changes your mind forever!

Episode Highlights With Razi Berry

  • How Razi almost died from anorexia at a young age and the miraculous healing that saved her
  • The brain’s messengers to the body and how the connection is truly scientific!
  • Some new thoughts about how to handle grief or loss
  • The emotional toll of miscarriage (and why we have trouble sharing it)
  • Principles of the naturopathic or therapeutic order of healing
  • The real meaning of the word “doctor”
  • How to use power posing to channel positive emotions
  • Razi’s way of practicing self-awareness (spoiler alert: it has nothing to do with yoga or meditation)
  • And more!

Resources We Mention

Episode Quotables From Razi Berry

The chemicals that our body produces to think cognition, feeling emotion, these are all neurotransmitters and peptides. Candace Pert called them molecules of emotion. And she who was a pharmacologist who believed that it was these thoughts and feelings, these chemical messengers that were kind of the mediator between our lived experience of the physiology of our body and the greater world around us that we are don’t necessarily see.

More From Wellness Mama

Have you ever had a near death experience or “miraculous” healing? Do you feel you have evidence for the mind-body connection? Please drop a comment below or leave a review on iTunes to let us know. We value knowing what you think and this helps other moms find the podcast as well.

Read Transcript

Katie: Hello and welcome to “The Wellness Mama Podcast.” I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com. And I’m here today with a dear friend, Razi Berry, who is the founder and publisher of the journal, “Naturopathic Doctor News & Review,” which has been in print since 2005 and the premier consumer-based website of Naturopathic Medicine, NaturalPath. You have to check it out. The link will be in the show notes. She’s also the host of The Natural Cancer Prevention Summit and The Heart Revolution-Heal, Empower and Follow Your Heart, as well as the ever-popular 10 Week Sugar-Free Summer Program. And we’re going to talk about her story today. But from a near-death experience as a young girl that healed her heart to later overcoming infertility, chronic fatigue, and fibromyalgia through Naturopathic Medicine, she has lived this mind-body healing paradigm and now works to educate the world about it. Welcome, Razi, and thanks for being here.

Razi: Hi, Katie. It’s a lot of fun to be here. Thank you.

Katie: And I feel like I can’t drop a line like that in the bio without asking you to share your story. What was your near-death experience as a child if you don’t mind sharing?

Razi: Yeah, it is quite an amazing story. And it’s funny because I learned even more about it as an adult. So let me start. I’ll give the truncated version. But basically, when I was 14 years old, I was in the hospital in Phoenix Children’s Hospital and I was dying of heart failure. There’s really nothing that the doctors could do. And so my family brought in our family priest, Dr. Father McGuire, to do the last rites ceremony. And so for those of you that aren’t familiar with the last rites ceremony, it’s in the Catholic tradition. It’s kind of like baptism is the sacrament when you’re born and last rites is a sacrament when you’re dying. So, you know, it was a really difficult time in our lives.

And the day after the sacrament was given, my mother was with my four-year-old brother in the room. Basically, they were coming to have some final moments with me. And one of the doctors was in the room. And he said to my mother, “This is a shame, Mrs. Berry, because she’s doing it to herself.” And when I heard that it was kind of in and out of consciousness. And when I heard that I suddenly…I felt so much shame, Katie, and a really strange thing happened. I didn’t really understand until years later, as I suddenly was looking down on the doctor when he said that. And I was looking down on my mother and down on my brother as if it was from the top of the room. And the shame that I felt when he said that was because it was true. I was doing it to myself. I had an eating disorder. I had anorexia nervosa and that was the cause of the heart failure.

Heart failure is one of the leading causes of death in severe eating disorders. And so he was right. And something in my psyche and my body just wanted to escape that shame. And then suddenly I was in, you know, just another place. And it seemed like it lasted forever. According to the nurse and the doctor and the family that was around me, it was minutes. I call it the near-death experience back then, my family said that God healed you. But what happened is after I “came back into my body,” I was healed. I ended up leaving the hospital without an eating disorder, without any medications, and with a healed heart.

So that the experience of what happened like what did I…a lot of people want to know like, “What did you hear? What did you see?” And, you know, I heard things and I felt things and I saw things. But none of that was really as important as what happened when I came back in my body because what I realized, Katie, is I had been so dissociated from myself, right? You have to be in a complete state of dissociation to not feed yourself properly, to not nourish yourself. And as I have grown and been involved in naturopathic medicine and in health in general, you know, it’s really clear to me that, that is really the cause of many diseases is this dissociative state where we’re not fully connected within our bodies. We’re not listening to the messages and the signals our body gives us.

So, I now look at it as a great gift because prior to that, whenever I was sick, my mom took us to the doctor and they gave us a shot or some medicine. But this time the doctors couldn’t do anything. So then I thought, “Well, what healed me then? If the doctor didn’t heal me where does healing come from?” And it was kind of a gift in the beginning of just this journey of just discovering, you know, what is healing?

Katie: Wow. And I bet that has had far-reaching effects throughout your entire life. That’s amazing.

Razi: Yeah, it definitely did. And then there were times where I was sick and I didn’t spontaneously heal, right? So it caused further questions and further investigation.

Katie: Well, yeah. And I feel like that brings up so much interesting things to think about, about that mind-body connection. I know this is something that you’ve talked about quite a bit. But it also feels like something that people can be, including me, like so skeptical of at times. Like realizing that we might actually have the power to do that. Like why do you think that moment or that particular thing, like what changed in that for you that made that possible?

Razi: So, yes, I understand this skepticism that even I had for a really long time about the whole idea of mind-body healing. And I think it’s because we focus so much on the mind or this ethereal other-world aspect. What I really think healed me was this integration that I had been kind of living without my body. I hadn’t really been listening and been in tune to my body signals which, you know, we all are born with. I believe that we’re all born and designed with this perfect ability to get information from the natural world around us and always know the right decisions to make. And then if we don’t make the right decision for ourselves, then our body, mind gives us other clues, whether it’s a feeling, a sensation, a symptom that can bring us back. So I believe that we’re all really born with everything that we need to know. And I think that it was the actual coming back into my body.

After that experience, I became so keenly aware of my body’s messages of feelings and my body. And I think that was the gift. But the amazing thing is, and I’ve been studying this for years now, is that you don’t have to have a near-death experience to get really more in body to get really back in touch. But that was what I think the gift was. I think it was the actual just something thrust me back into that visceral phenomenological experience of living, of what it’s like to be inside a body. I mean, our mind is in our body, right? The chemicals that our body produces to think cognition, feeling emotion, these are all neurotransmitters and peptides. Candace Pert called them molecules of emotion. And she who was a pharmacologist who believed that it was these thoughts and feelings, these chemical messengers that were kind of the mediator between our lived experience of the physiology of our body and the greater world around us that we are don’t necessarily see.

Katie: And from the sounds of your bio, your story definitely doesn’t stop there either because it also says you overcame infertility, chronic fatigue, and fibromyalgia. Was that a similar process or was that a different part of the journey for you?

Razi: So it’s funny because sometimes I think you have questions and then life definitely gives you a way to figure out the answer for that, right? So I had been really interested in learning about how the body heals and how the mind and body are connected. And I felt though a lot of information was just really whoo-whoo, it was all based on just like, you know, another worldly psychic phenomenon, and not necessarily something that was like conscious and physiological together. And so, in my mid-20s, I got really sick. At that point, you know, this was, what, 16 years ago, the doctors didn’t really have a diagnosis for fibromyalgia. So I was just in severe chronic pain. And I ended up at the Mayo Clinic after seeing several doctors who said, “Oh, it’s the flu,” or, “You must be pregnant.”

At one time that pain was so bad that actually remember crawling across the floor to go to the bathroom. So the Mayo Clinic had some amazing diagnostics, but they had me on so many medications and some even like chemotherapeutic type medication. So my hair was falling out. And I just went to the doctor one day and I was like, “This just isn’t what I want.” And they said, “You know, I’m sorry. You just need to go on disability.” So at that moment I fired my doctor, and I just went to… Similar to your story, Katie, I just decided to take it by the reins and find a doctor that would really listen to me.

So there was a lot of deep pain in those years, physical pain and then the pain from having five miscarriages in six years. It was a really dark period. But I tried to just remember what I had been learning about the principles of naturopathy, which I hope we get to talk about, and also, from what I learned in my past experience with healing that healing happens in your body and not just, you know, in your mind. A lot of times the doctors just wanted to give me something that would control my mind like help me sleep or help me wake up or deal with depression and the anxiety that ensued. And so the healing happened when I really started to pay attention again to what is my body telling me? What are the messages that these symptoms mean? Because really, when we kind of turn it around, symptoms which seems so painful and so horrible, they actually are a dear part of ourselves. They love us so much that they’re really asking us for something.

Katie: Yeah. And I love that you shared your story of your five miscarriages. And if you’re comfortable talking about it, I’d actually love to talk about that for a minute because I think we as a society have gotten so much better about talking about so many aspects of motherhood and of life experience. And that’s one that’s still so guarded and so painful I think for so many people but yet I’ve had a miscarriage. You’ve had miscarriages. I think it’s something that’s actually extremely common but yet there’s still so much pain and shame hidden around that. So if you’re comfortable sharing I’d love to hear a little bit of what your inner process has been in healing from that.

Razi: Yes, and I know that, you know, all types of relationships, even motherhood, there’s a spectrum, right? Some people feel extremely maternal. Some people less so. And I don’t have any judgment there. But I happen to be just a very maternal leaning. So when I had my first two miscarriages, the doctors were like, “Oh, this is, you know, common.” Even that was really difficult for me, Katie, because myself and I think a lot of women like as soon as I found out that I was pregnant, I began to form a relationship with my unborn child, right?

Like you talk and sing to your child. You dream about what the future is going to bring. And you prepare, not just for their birth, but for the life that you want to help them develop. So I felt like there weren’t a lot of resources for me to really mourn the loss, even when the pregnancies were early. I felt when the pregnancies were a little bit further along, there was more, you know, kind of sympathy, I guess. But I felt like there was a real lack of ability to find resources and I feel like I really had to mourn it alone. I got to a point like after about my fourth miscarriages, my friends stopped inviting me to baby showers, not to be unkind, but because they just didn’t know how to deal with it, especially because some of them had known, you know, I was pregnant for, you know, few months and they just didn’t know how to deal with it. So, I really had to turn to, you know, my family, my spirituality.

I wish that I had like a really wonderful way to share. But one thing that I have learned after living some more years on this Earth is the best way that I’ve learned to deal with things like loss are not so much to focus on my thought patterns because, you know, the reason we ruminate and psychology will tell us the reason that we think over and over again sometimes about things is because we so badly want a solution out of something painful and sometimes there’s not necessarily a solution. And so what I found is when you really take good care of your body, the mind…I’m not saying mindset isn’t important, but when you really listen into what is your body asking you, like if you’re in a time of grief after miscarriage and you feel tired all the time, or you can’t sleep or you just hungry all the time or you’re not hungry at all, you know, these are different messages our body is giving us. And I think if… We don’t ever want to get stuck in a rut, but if we take some time and just allow our body to express themselves and then nourish and nurture our bodies according to those messages, for me, that was always the way out of grief or loss.

Katie: Yeah, I love that. And I found for me even just, yeah, being able to speak it and talk to others too also it felt like that gave credibility to that life and also just really helped to work through the process. And I love that you share so vulnerable your story with a desire to help other people. And I know also as part of your desire to help others you have been so involved in the naturopath community and in naturopathic medicine for years. And so, for anyone listening who’s not familiar, I’d love if you could walk us through your process with this and your publication and what you’ve learned through all of those years of that deep involvement with naturopathic medicine.

Razi: Yes. So first, I want to say that I am a fan of all types of health practitioners and all health healing paradigms. I think there’s a place for all of them. And I think that each person individually needs to choose which is the best for them. I tend to feel inclined and I believe most all people should have a naturopathic doctor on their health care team and a couple of reasons why. So when we look at what naturopathic medicine is, it’s a very unique paradigm of medicine. So when we look at a doctoral level of medical training, we basically have three main schools of that. There’s osteopathy, which is a DO, a medical doctor, which is an MD and a naturopathic doctor, which is an ND. All of them have very similar education as far as the number of hours, the number of pharmacology they need to take, and things like that.

And where naturopathic medicine is a little different, is when they get a lot of nutrition, of course, the whole like Hippocratic food is medicine. But there’s also these six principles that underlie naturopathic medicine that are all framed around a therapeutic order, which makes it so unique. So the principles, I’ll go through them very quickly. One is, first, do no harm, which all doctors really take that oath that, you know, you do the least toxic, least forceful treatment first. Then is the healing power of nature. And in Latin, this is called the vis medicatrix naturea. And the vis or the vise is that innate life force that all living beings have. So plants, animals, humans. There is this life force. Some people call it God. Some people call it universe. In naturopathy, it is called the vis. And it’s just that thing that propels us towards homeostasis that allows us to experience allostasis where we’re constantly our bodies are constantly changing to adapt to our environment. And we believe that that is really the natural state of all of us to be able to self-heal.

The next one is to identify and treat the cause. This has become really popular in many paradigms in medicine now and I’m so glad that to look at the root cause. And in naturopathy, we’re always kind of peeling that onion a little bit more. So it doesn’t just stop at like, “Okay, well, here’s the thyroid hormones.” It’s like, “Well, why is the thyroid behaving this way?” And then you just kind of you keep looking back until you can really find the root cause. And part of that or my favorite parts of that is called removing the obstacle to cure. So it’s not just looking at the cause as a deficiency, but also looking at the cause of some sort of excess or something unnecessary that needs to be stripped away.

The next one is docere, which is the root of the word doctor, which means to teach. And it says that your doctor is really a teacher. The doctor doesn’t trump your self-knowledge. The doctor is your guide to help you self-heal. Treat the whole person is number five. I think again, that’s not as obscure as it once was. But it’s looking at the integrated whole of the body, all of its physical and spiritual and its energetic dimensions and how you sort of move through space, how you move through the world. What are your relationships like? What is your work environment? What is your home environment? And the last one is prevention, which, of course, prevention is the best cure if we could get back to this idea that we want to prevent disease instead of waiting. Doctors really try… Naturopathic medicine tries to really teach those. So those are the principles. And if I can for a second, Katie, just kind of explain how they fit into this really unique framework. It’s called the therapeutic order. Can I do that?

Katie: Yeah, absolutely.

Razi: So the therapeutic order, if you imagine a pyramid, and the very bottom of the pyramid is the foundation. And that foundation is to establish the foundation for optimal health. So that’s where you kind of identify what the cause is, you know, beyond what a lab would show. You know, let’s look at lifestyle. Let’s look at attitudes. Let’s look at all the different moving parts in your life and even from your past. And then you assess the determinants of health. What does this person need in order to restore health? So this is the foundation. So this is before supplements are given. This is before nutrition is given. First, that’s determined. Then you stimulate the self-healing mechanism. So sometimes a naturopathic doctor will say, “Yeah, you need thyroid medication, but you’re not ready for it yet. Your vitality isn’t quite there yet.”

So maybe there’s another area. Maybe they need to strengthen something with your pituitary. And they will kind of stimulate the body’s kind of vitality so it’s ready for treatment. Then, it’s when you look to support and restore weaken systems. And this is where a lot of medical paradigms begin and there’s nothing wrong with that. But as you see in naturopathy, there’s a few steps that come before that. So this is where you kind of aid in like the regeneration of damaged organ systems or organs. And then the next step on top of that is address the physical alignment. So what’s the structural integrity of the bones, the muscles, sometimes even posture? You know, we’ve kind of gotten so excited about new neat hacks that we forget about simple things like hydration and posture for health.

Then above that is natural symptom control. So the doctor first starts in these first steps… I’m talking about before we use natural substances to sort of palliate symptoms. And this is where the doctor says, “You know, the symptom is the message.” But in some cases just to give the patient some relief or to allow the vitality to strengthen, we will control these symptoms and we first try it with natural substances. Above that on this pyramid is the synthetic relief of symptoms. Sometimes drugs are needed to palliate a symptom to help the person. Again, it’s not to cure them. It’s to kind of support the vital force, kind of free up the body’s energy so it can do its own self-healing. And then the very tip is the high-force interventions. Sometimes they’re needed. They never begin there. And that’s where you sometimes suppress pathology. It’s never the first choice, as it often can be in, you know, kind of traditional medicine. And that is the therapeutic order.

Katie: I love that. It’s so practical and it’s such a solid framework. And I think, you know, it addresses some of the potential deficiencies of conventional medicine. But I’m also curious. I mean, I know that that’s the more common paradigm in the U.S. So how do you see naturopathic medicine and conventional medicine working together if they can or, like, how do you view those two?

Razi: Yeah, so I think they’re wonderful complements to each other. And I think this is really where I love the idea of patient choice because, really, there’s so many different ways that you can treat a disease. You can treat it through homeopathy, through herbs, through medications, and no one is really going to know that except for together with your relationship with your doctor. So some people choose to do just conventional medicine. Some people choose to do really old school nature care where it’s like hot and cold water therapy, energetic, you know, structural alignment, and things like that. And some people like a blend of the two.

I think that like naturopaths are trained to work with conventional medical doctors and they get some of the same training. They understand pharmacology and, in fact, they have to take more continuing ed and pharmacology than MDs and DOs, which is sort of ironic. But I think they fit together so perfectly because having a naturopathic doctor can kind of just…you know, the office visits are a little bit longer and they just ask different questions. And so you can use it alone or you can just kind of pick and choose. Like there’s certain things in my life that I use different types of naturopathic doctors for, right? So like if I am in a period of stress and I have a flare-up of my fibromyalgia, then I have a doctor, a naturopath, that I’ve been working with for a long time and I really, really know and trust her.

But last October I had this just random…well, nothing is random, but this intestinal infection that happened overnight and it ended me in the hospital going into sepsis. And, of course, I needed conventional medical care because what I needed at that time was at the very top of the pyramid. I needed a high-force intervention to get rid of that so that my body could then heal. So what I did is I went to the hospital. I was there for a week, sadly, needing antibiotics, which I never really want to use unless I have to. But then I had my naturopathic doctor to help me recover from that. So they work together beautifully.

Katie: Yeah, I absolutely agree. And I think, you know, you often hear it said that for any kind of trauma or like acute thing we truly are in the best place in the entire world when it comes to that. And I definitely never want to discount what conventional medicine and what emergency medicine physicians can do because it’s truly amazing and they absolutely do save lives. Like for me, that was my third baby had placenta previa. He was born C-section. Without that, we both would have died. My husband’s appendix ruptured. Definitely, a time for conventional medicine. But I love that with the two of them together, you’re able to then for things that aren’t an acute problem or something that’s more chronic, you’re able to go to the root cause. Even if you do… Like you said, even if you need conventional medicine too, in the beginning, to get to the point where you can actually heal and then you use naturopathic medicine to work through it, I think there’s a beauty there in having access to all of these approaches now. And it’s just so amazing that we now have this. It’s incredible.

Razi: I know. It is beautiful that we have so many options now. And I’m really grateful for that.

Katie: And I know that you’ve…So through publishing the “Naturopathic Doctor News and Review” you have written for well over a decade, 14 years now, thousands of cases. I’m curious if there’s any takeaways or commonalities that you’ve noticed through all of those articles and that experience and learning from all of those.

Razi: Yeah, so I don’t write the cases. The doctors submit the cases based on an editorial calendar that I put together every year. So I have just been able to read and publish, you know, over 2,000 cases. And what I found to be really an underlying theme and this isn’t, you know, anything new but that in reading all the SOAP notes that the doctor sends in and what the care is and what the patient’s sort of homework is, I found that there’s really an emotional aspect to pretty much every state of disease. There’s always an emotional aspect to it. And my dream is, and I think it’s happening more and more that, a world where all doctors are sort of trained to look for that and help the patient discover that through self-awareness. The whole idea of docere, doctor is teacher.

In my own life, I know that the way I manifest stress is through my gut. And so now knowing that and being mindful of it, you know, when I have things that I can do or ways I can change my diet or different self-care practices I can do it under times of stress to help kind of prevent a flare-up in that case. So, yeah, so it’s not any, like amazing like biomarker that I found out, although I’ve seen a lot of really neat things like that, but it’s just that, you know, we are such emotional beings. And whether we allow that to flow freely through us or we block those that really can be a determinant of health.

Katie: Yeah, I think that’s a perfect segue. I want to make sure we mention it. You have both a podcast and a project called Love is Medicine. Like that is a perfect name for the segment of your work with talking about the emotional side of it. So kind of give us an overview of what that is and where people can find it?

Razi: Thanks, Katie. Love is Medicine really started back when I had that near-death experience as a child. Again, I don’t know exactly what it was, all I know it was an experience that I had. It was a transformative experience and we all have them. Sometimes it’s just holding one of our children and having this intense feeling of oneness, right, with everything or with God. Sometimes it’s climbing a mountain or being in nature. But there was kind of a message in there. The message was that, you know, I was loved. There was love all around me. And the way that the Earth is sort of designed, if I can use that word, is to love us. The sun, you know, rises every morning and the Earth biofield is giving, you know, is an antioxidant for us and there’s food growing from the Earth. And there’s people around us to commune with. And there’s just love all around us. And I believe that love is the healing elixir for everything.

And when I say love, I don’t really mean necessarily, you know, a love relationship. But it’s how we move through our world. It’s how we relate to each other. It’s how we perceive ourselves. It’s how we move through our day, how we take care of our body, how we take care of the people that we love. That to me is medicine. And I think there’s more and more research to show that. You know, I’m sure you’ve had, you know, many, many guests talk about loneliness is more detrimental than cigarette smoking and feelings of isolation. Even if it’s self-reported can be, you know, real cause for like heart disease and even cancer. So love is medicine. It’s about just kind of that self-awareness of coming back into this idea that you have all the answers inside you and how you eat, breathe, move, speak, think, and relate to the world around you and people around you affect every cell in your body. And to me, that’s what Love is Medicine is.

Katie: That’s awesome. And I’ll make sure links are in the show notes so people can find you on that.

This episode is brought to you by Four Sigmatic, creator of all things superfood mushrooms and founded by my favorite Finnish Fun guys. I love all of their products, and in fact, I’m sipping their Reishi hot cocoa as I record this. These superfood mushrooms are always a part of my daily routine with their coffee plus lions mane or coffee plus cordyceps in the morning for energy and focus without as much caffeine as coffee to their chaga and cordyceps in the afternoon for antioxidants and immunity and the Reishi elixir at night for improved sleep. They also just released skin care that is so clean you not only can eat it…. But it’s encouraged. Their charcoal mask has activated charcoal to clarify, chaga and cacao for an antioxidant boost and other herbal and superfood ingredients. It’s so clean that it can literally be made into a cup of hot cocoa as well! Their superfood serum contains a blend of avocado and olive oils with Reishi and herbs for a hydrating skin boost and it works so well. As a listener of this podcast, you can save 15% with the code wellness mama at foursigmatic.com/wellnessmama.

This podcast is brought to you by Genexa, a company revolutionizing over the counter products for children and families. Their products are all cleaner, healthier and allergen free versions of the products you already know and use. Genexa has a whole line of natural homeopathic remedies for sleep, reducing stress, allergy relief, jet lag and so much more. They’ve also developed a more natural alternative to other heartburn remedies, a truly clean Vitamin D3 for infants and kids, natural saline rinse for infants, kids and adults, a pain crush roll on I’ve been using after tough workouts, a natural laxative and so much more. All of their products are vetted and tested by an entire team of doctors to make sure they are safe, natural and effective. Check them out and save 20% just for being a listener of this podcast by going to genexa.com/wellnessmama and using the code WELLNESS.

Katie: Are there any other tips or exercises that you would give us for those of us learning to connect to that kind of inner wisdom or to work through that inner emotional side?

Razi: Yes. I’m actually writing a book right now that but it won’t be out for a year on really how to reconnect. And there’s a couple of simple tips. One way to really reconnect with your body and this introspective sensitivity that we have… Interception is this physiological process of understanding our inner body. For instance, have you ever heard of the term Mittelschmerz, Katie?

Katie: I haven’t.

Razi: Okay, Mittelschmerz is a German name for middle pain and it’s a word that gets used when women can feel themselves ovulate. And so being able to kind of understand like be sensitive to your heart rate variability, changes in blood pressure, and really being in tune with your bodies is called interception. They found that people like on the autism spectrum have less ability with people with eating disorders, have less ability to really listen to these internal body signals. And there was one study that showed that when you do power posing, it can help strengthen your interceptive sensitivity, being more aware of them. And I think it’s fun because it’s so simple and so like something I never would have thought of. But power poses or things like this. Like you can sit back in a chair in front of a desk or a table and put your feet up, put your hands behind your head, kind of like, “Yeah, I’ve got this. I’m the boss here.” And it’s a power pose. And a power pose like that is a body movement that sort of translates into a deeper understanding of your body.

Another power pose is standing up tall with your feet about, you know, hip-width apart and putting your two hands on your hips and just kind of standing tall. And I like to put like a facial like a smile or kind of unknowing grin on my face whenever I do this power pose. And I teach my kids to do it too. They’re a lot of fun. If they’re trying to make a decision, I’ll say, “Well, do some power posing and really get connected with your body.” So those are some really fun ways that you can get in touch. Another thing that I love is I’m so fascinated by the way our olfactory sense is connected to cognition. And cognition is a really important part of our intuition because truly, we think with every cell in our body. We’ve got immunological memory, cellular memory. Our immune system has a memory.

And so our olfactory sense is so connected to all these. In fact, it was recently discovered that we have olfactory receptors in our kidneys that help “sniff out” like what the constituents of your blood are in your blood and help control like blood pressure and other like chemical regulation of the bloodstream. So one of the things that I really like to do to get really in tune is a sensory detox. And one of the ones is with our olfactory, our sense of smell. So what I ask people to do is for two weeks get rid of anything scented in their environment, even natural scents. So that means no essential oils, no perfumes, no deodorants, nothing scented, and kind of get used to and aware of the scents that are all around you, even this scents that are coming from your own body, your breath, your armpits, just the skin, your hair, because we take in chemo signals 24/7. When we’re asleep, when we’re awake, we’re taking in these chemicals from the world around us.

Sometimes they’re pheromones, but there’s so many more that we’re just learning about. And this is data that gives our body information. In fact, there are some rat studies that showed you can breed a rat for several generations in total sterility. So they haven’t seen any other animals, no predators, or anything for several generations. And then what they did is they…I want to say generations. Rats don’t live a very long time. So it’s not like hundreds of years. But then what they do is they introduce body fluids from different other animals.

And through posture and new behavior, the rats could tell through the just these natural chemicals coming from other animals bodies and humans too, they could tell if it was a predator, male or female, if it was in heat. Like they could introduce a scent of like a young female rat, and then the male rat would have no sexual posturing. But if it was like an older female rat if it was of… I don’t know if you’d say childbearing age in a rat, but then that animal had like sexual posturing. So we’ve learned so much about the world around us through this chemo sense of olfaction. And I think it’s a really great way to start getting in tune with your body.

Katie: That is so fascinating. I’ve never heard that before about the kidneys having the olfactory sensors. That’s amazing.

And it makes sense too. The body, I think… I mean, I still feel like we’re only barely starting to understand and touch on the wisdom of the body. I think we’re still going to learn so much. And I wonder…so like being in this health world myself, it’s like there’s so much information and we’ve learned so much data of all the things that we should be doing. I’m curious for you having, you know, 14 years of exposure to this experience, what are the things that actually stick and that you implement in your daily life? So like in your morning routine or that are part of your daily routine.

Razi: Yeah, so a lot of them I think you’ve probably heard many times before, but I try to always wake up naturally and have my kids do that too. I feel like that it’s just so important. And I noticed just a big difference. Just like they say a child knows when it should be born by giving the mother’s signals in a perfect environment, right, I feel like your body just knows when it’s time to wake up. So I also do, you know, go outside first. And I always hug trees. It’s kind of like I guess a silly geeky thing. But, you know, the trees roots are going so far down into the Earth and they’re connected to other tree roots. And I also have some trees in my yard that my late father had planted. So I make a ritual of it every morning to hug some trees. And I just really feel, you know, the effects of the Earth’s biofield and the sunlight.

And I also, throughout the day, I take these little self-awareness breaks but I’m not a meditator. Actually, I hate yoga and I hate meditating and I’m always embarrassed to say that but they are two things that I know are so good for you but I just don’t like either one of them. So I take the self-awareness breaks during the day. And here’s how it’s different from meditation. And meditation often says, you know, “Close your eyes and breathe deeply.” Well, I say, “Forget that.” I say, “Keep your eyes open and breathe normally.” I call it sleeping, baby breathing. When you breathe normally, you have, you know, these certain ratios of different chemicals that help your body take in oxygen. And, you know, deep breathing is good too, but to just be aware of where your body really is at that moment. So we keep our eyes open, and we breathe normally. And we keep our body posture wherever it is. Sometimes I send a signal on my phone to do this.

And you guys notice things like what am I hearing right now? Right now on my right ear, I hear the neighbor’s lawnmower. And then I also feel like my bra strap is a little bit too tight. I feel like I can feel, you know, what the cold floor feels like on the bottom of my feet. I can feel, you know, that my mouth is a little bit dry, that I probably should be drinking some more water this morning. And I hear and feel the air conditioning kind of brush against my left shoulder coming in from the room. So when I do these simple practices, sometimes I’ll do it when I’m cooking, slicing and onion. I notice the deep purple color of the onion. I feel what does the little muscles in my eyes feel like if they begin to tear? I’m open to the slicing sound.

And I try to just get super aware of it, not just in my head, in my whole body. And what I find is when you practice wherever your body is at, you’re kind of training yourself to know what your body needs at all times. Otherwise, when I don’t do it, I’m not going working on the computer after talking to you for another hour without drinking water, right, because we’re just focused in our mind of what we need to be doing. But when we take these little self-awareness breaks, it trains us to listen to our bodies.

Katie: That’s a great tip and that’s what I’ve never heard before. I’m also not a huge fan of meditating. And like I do better with something concrete like you and I have talked about before, like cold water or specific breathing. And like I don’t just the idea of meditating but I love those self-awareness check-ins. That’s a great idea.

Razi: Thanks, Katie. It’s fun too because I think like, “Oh, my gosh like I’ve been sitting with my legs crossed and my leg’s starting to fall asleep. Like how long was I gonna let myself do that, you know?” And that’s not a major thing that’s a determinant of health. But if you start with the small things, then I think you become more aware of the larger things in your life that your body tells you it needs.

Katie: Yeah, that’s such a great point. And our time is flying by so fast because you’re so easy to talk to. But a couple questions I’d love to ask toward the end and I know that you’re also very well-read. So I’m curious if there is a book or number of books that have really had a dramatic impact on your life, and if so, what they are and why?

Razi: Okay, so one book that I got in high school that I was at like a garage sale, and it’s called “The Art of Loving” by Erich Fromm. Have you heard of it?

Kaie: I’ve heard of it. But I have not read it.

Katie: Okay, so Erich Fromm was… I guess he’s like a psychoanalyst, a psychotherapist, and also just a social, I guess philosopher, and he was the first person to really talk about love as something worth looking at like in an academic sort of way. And there is a passage I’d like or just a sentence or two I’d like to read from his book that really changed my idea of what love is. And it says this. “Love is not primarily a relationship to a specific person. It is an attitude, an orientation of character, which determines the relatedness the person to the world as a whole, not toward one object of love. If a person loves only one other person and is indifferent to the rest of his fellow-men, this love is not love but a symbiotic attachment.”

And when I read that was just, you know, a young girl in high school and I had my first love, my first boyfriend, and all the wonder and kind of angst that goes with that. And I was really kind of astounded by this little book and how it teaches a lot about self-responsibility and that love is actually…like you don’t fall in love. You stand in love. And it talks about love as an art so it’s called “The Art of Loving” as any other endeavor that we do that we as humans are called even biblically if you’re so inclined to love one another. Not from a religious perspective, but it kind of explores what does that look like. And I think if we really follow that and look within and love ourselves and love the people, the world around us, I think it’s really a solution to a lot of what ails us.

Katie: I’ll make sure I add that in the show notes so people can find that book. That’s interesting and, yeah, a new recommendation on here. Lastly, is there any parting advice you would like to leave with the audience today?

Razi: I’m always looking for advice myself and I definitely think that I’m kind of a student of life as well. But I think the best advice I would give is to always be honest with yourself. I think that there’s a lot of ways especially looking at social media and stuff that we kind of, you know, badass ourselves out of looking at the truth, that we kind of high five ourselves sometimes in a way that can be actually kind of aggressive or even passive-aggressive. And I think that the best way towards happiness is to always just be honest with yourself in every situation that you’re in, whether it’s an illness or joy, raising your family, being in a relationship, what you’re eating, a new exercise routine. I think that really being honest with yourself is a way that you can never go wrong.

Katie: I love that. I think it’s a perfect place to wrap up. And I will make sure that the links to all of the things we’ve talked about to naturopath and to your publication and podcasts and everything are in the show notes at wellnessmama.fm. So if you guys are driving or exercising or whatever it may be, you can find those links later at wellnessmama.fm. But, Razi, thank you so much for being here. It’s always such a joy to chat with you.

Razi: It was lots of fun. Thanks again, Katie.

Katie: And thanks to all of you for sharing your most valuable asset, your time, with us today. We’re both so grateful that you did. And I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of “The Wellness Mama Podcast.”

Thanks to Our Sponsors

This episode is brought to you by Four Sigmatic, creator of all things superfood mushrooms and founded by my favorite Finnish Fun guys. I love all of their products, and in fact, I’m sipping their Reishi hot cocoa as I record this. These superfood mushrooms are always a part of my daily routine with their coffee + lions mane or coffee +cordycepts in the morning for energy and focus without as much caffeine as coffee to their chaga and cordycepts in the afternoon for antioxidants and immunity and the Reishi elixir at night for improved sleep. They also just released skin care that so clean you not only can eat it…. But its encouraged. Their charcoal mask has activated charcoal to clarify, chaga and cacao for an antioxidant boost and other herbal and superfood ingredients. It’s so clean that it can literally be made into a cup of hot cocoa as well! Their superfood serum contains a blend of avocado and olive oils with Reishi and herbs for a hydrating skin boost. As a listener of this podcast, you can save 15% with the code wellness mama at foursigmatic.com/wellnessmama.

This podcast is brought to you by Genexa, a company revolutionizing over the counter products for children and families. Their products are all cleaner, healthier and allergen free versions of the products you already know and use. Genexa has a whole line of natural homeopathic remedies for sleep, reducing stress, allergy relief, jet lag and so much more. They’ve also developed a more natural alternative to other heartburn remedies, a truly clean Vitamin D3 for infants and kids, natural saline rinse for infants, kids and adults, a pain crush roll on I’ve been using after tough workouts, a natural laxative and so much more. All of their products are vetted by an entire team of doctors to make sure they are safe, natural and effective. Check them out and save 20% just for being a listener of this podcast by going to genexa.com/wellnessmama and code WELLNESS.

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clean no 00:49:17 Katie Wells
282: An Electric Approach to Fitness, Rehabilitation, and Brain Health With NeuFithttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/neufit/ Mon, 19 Aug 2019 11:00:55 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=417789

Today’s fascinating guest is Garrett Salpeter, dubbed a “health engineer” by many. He invented a patented device that makes the benefits of neuro bioelectric stimulation more accessible to everyone. His system for improving the body (starting with the brain) is called NeuFit (think “neurological fitness”). This device and his program has helped people in chronic pain or injury, or those who simply want to improve overall performance. He works with people in almost all situations, including those in wheelchairs, athletes in all of the major sports, the Olympics, and much more, to help people get out of pain, improve performance, and sometimes avoid surgery.

I first met Garrett in Austin, and since I’m geek for new technologies and learning more about the body and how it works, we couldn’t stop talking! I also had the chance to try the NeuFit. I’m delighted to share him and all of his knowledge with you today… see the resources below for how to find this technology in an office near you.

Episode Highlights With NeuFit

  • Factors that slow down the healing process after an injury (and how to speed it up instead)
  • How an electrical current could actually be good for you!
  • Differences between this device and other electrical stimulation devices
  • The promising science showing that enhancing the body’s internal electric fields may protect against disease
  • How heart rate variability is an important marker that can tell you a lot about your health
  • Benefits for the parasympathetic nervous system and calming the “fight or flight mode”
  • How bioelectric devices can complement your next chiropractic or physical therapy session
  • Ways athletes can use NeuFit to maximize workouts and recovery
  • And more!

Resources We Mention

More From Wellness Mama

Did you enjoy this episode? What questions do you have about NeuFit or bioelectric stimulation in general? Please drop a comment below or leave a review on iTunes to let us know. We value knowing what you think and this helps other moms find the podcast as well.

Read Transcript

Katie: Hello, and welcome to the “Wellness Mama Podcast.” I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com. And I’m here today with Garrett Salpeter, who is known as the health engineer and inventor of the patented Neubie device. And I met him in Austin, where he has a facility where he helps people. We’re gonna talk a lot about that today. But Garrett has taken his education in engineering and neuroscience, and applied it into this fascinating system for improving the body. It’s grown into what we now know as NeuFit, which combines an advanced understanding of physiology with the best practices from diverse training and therapeutic practices to push the process of using technology to accelerate them further. He works with people in almost all situations, including those in wheelchairs, athletes in all of the major sports, the Olympics, and much more, to help people get out of pain, improve performance, and sometimes avoid surgery. And we’re gonna talk about how today. So, welcome, Garrett, and thanks for being here.

Garrett: Thank you, Katie. It’s a pleasure. I’m honored to be here and excited to dive into this conversation.

Katie: Well, I always love to hear about new technologies and our new understanding of the body, and how we’re able to use that to really improve things on an exponential level. So, to start, can you walk us through what the NeuFit is, like, what it’s physically doing?

Garrett: Yeah. Absolutely. So, the system that we call NeuFit is centered around this unique technology that the Neubie device, which is just an acronym for neuro bioelectric stimulation. And it has some unique effects on the nervous system. You know, NeuFit, neurological fitness is kind of built into our name, where we’re focused. And with traditional electrical stimulation, just to kind of set the context here. Typically, you’re sending a current into the body and you’re causing muscles to contract, and you’re really focused on the muscles and, you know, there can be some benefit to that just the same as going to the gym and lifting weights, and doing things with your muscles. You know, over tens of thousands of reps, you make changes and adaptations, and positive things can happen.

However, this is a paradigm shift because what we’re doing here with this technology is tapping into the nervous system in a new way, almost bypassing the muscles and going right into the nervous system, so that we can make changes much more quickly. So we’re focused on neuromuscular reeducation is kind of the term for this. And when we work at that level, we’re able to help people make changes much more quickly. So, you know, if someone listening to this is trying to recover from a shoulder injury, for example, a lot of times, it’s the movement patterns of the body that create protective patterns around that injured area that slow down the healing process and restrict movement.

And by kind of going a layer deeper, more towards that underlying cause at the neuromuscular level, we’re able to find where the underlying issues are, help people make these changes much faster, whether it’s faster recovery from injury, getting more out of their workouts. And so, really the distinction is, you know, this type of technology, it’s direct current as opposed to alternating current, and really the way in which it’s applied is the big difference.

Katie: That makes sense. And I’d love to go a little deeper on that because I’ve done some research into things like PEMF or, for instance, the book I’ve mentioned on this podcast before, “The Body Electric,” and just this understanding that we’re starting to have of just how electric the body is. So, when you say it’s direct current versus an alternating current, can you explain a little bit more on that? What is the type of current and how is that impacting us on a cellular level?

Garrett: Yes. And that’s awesome. I’m so glad that you have covered that. That is one of my favorite books of all time, and absolutely informs our work and my thought process, and it’s been one of the influences that has guided me over the last 15 or so years that I’ve been really, really exploring these topics and, you know, working very deeply in this field. So the electrical system of the body, absolutely, guides almost everything relevant and important about the body, from how the muscles work to how the digestive organs work, to the heart rate and blood pressure, and control of everything: psychologically, energetically, metabolically, hormonally.

So, the nervous system and the underlying electric signaling is so vitally important. And the system of the body, underlying system of the body definitely does work on direct current. So, the signals are going in one direction. There’s one pathway from the brain out to the body, and there’s a separate pathway from the body back up to the brain. So, those are both direct current pathways. Alternating current is what we have in our walls of the buildings and what comes out of the outlet. So, it’s a signal alternates back and forth. So, if you look at the electrons, instead of just going in one direction around a loop and a current, they’re oscillating back and forth. And when that happens in the body, if you use an alternating current signal, you end up creating kind of an unnatural combination of contractions because the signal is going up and down, and up and down, and back and forth, and back and forth.

And so, you end up… When you get it up to a high enough level to really make a difference in the body, you end up creating what’s called co-contraction, or where muscles on both sides are gonna be fighting against each other. And so, if you use traditional alternating current devices, you train the body to move, as if you were driving your car and hitting the throttle and the brake pedal at the same time. You’re getting this confusing message. And that can certainly be problematic because if you train the body in this way, and it adapts to that, you’re gonna end up teaching the body to resist its own movements and waste energy. So, at best, you’re getting less efficient, at worst, possibly even setting the body up for injury, at least increasing the risk of injury.

So, using direct current is important from that perspective for efficient movement. And then also, you know, if you’re talking about “The Body Electric” and PEMF, and the work that we’re doing at NeuFit, having direct current is vitally important, especially, as we learn more and more about these underlying electrical signaling mechanisms and how the changes in electric fields promote healing, promote regeneration, promote growth and repair within the body, and how, you know, as those internal electric fields tend to diminish, there’s work out there showing that that actually is a precursor for disease. And being able to enhance the body’s inherent or internal electric fields actually is protective against disease, and supports health and vitality for a very long healthspan and lifespan.

Katie: Got it. And so, okay, on a practical level, you have a facility in Austin, and then I believe practitioners can also purchase this device and use it in their own facilities. Is that correct?

Garrett: Yes. Absolutely. So, we have both. We offer rehabilitation services for everyone from, you know, people who have been paralyzed or have various neurological challenges, all the way through regular, everyday, healthy people who just have some pain or some injury and through elite athletes. Then we also have a whole range of people who come in for training as well. So, they’re able to use this technology to help enhance muscle activation and recruitment, and get more bang for the buck in their workouts.

And then, just as you said, yes, we have now been offering this technology to other rehab and fitness businesses around the country. So there’s several physical therapy clinics, chiropractic clinics, some gyms, other medical offices, and then universities and sports teams are using it. And it’s been really cool to see that they’ve been able to duplicate the awesome outcomes that we’ve been seeing here in Austin. They’ve been able to, not only duplicate that, but expand on it and reach even more people. And it’s been awesome to see that new community of practitioners emerge over the last year-and-a-half.

Katie: That’s awesome. And so, I’ve gotten to try it at an event in Austin, actually. And I’m guessing, like, probably, because you were slammed, there were so many people that wanted to try your device at the event. I’m curious, when someone walks into your facility, are people coming in with a specific thing, like, “It’s my knee and I don’t wanna have surgery,” or are people coming in, like, for workouts? Basically, what’s the process, like, when someone comes into you?

Garrett: Yeah. Absolutely. So, usually, it is for a specific thing. You know, some pain or some injuries has motivated someone to want to address it, and now they’ve either heard about us from their doctor or been referred by a friend. And, you know, they’re kind of open to a new way of doing things. And so, people will come in, and what we wanna start with is our evaluation process. So, one of the cool things that we’re able to do with this technology, you know, because of some of these differences and how it impacts the nervous system, it actually allows us to do this assessment process where we scan around or map the body. So we’re actually using one of the electrodes and scanning around on the body.

And based on how someone responds, we can usually tell, in the first session, where the underlying issues are, what isn’t working properly that’s causing them to stay stuck in the rut of being in pain, or what is not working well enough and might be an impediment to their healing process, and might be standing in the way or at least slowing down their healing process if they’re recovering from an injury. So, that assessment process is very valuable for us because it informs the rest of our process. And it’s usually very illuminating for the patient or client going through it because, in many ways, it takes a lot of the guesswork out of it. They can feel, “Oh, yeah. Wow. There’s something right there. And yes, it’s definitely different. It’s definitely something we need to work on.” So, people tend to really like that process, even if it’s not pleasant.

It can feel like finding a trigger point or something, and so it can, you know, for a moment, be uncomfortable. But overall, people really tend to appreciate the precision with which we can find some of these underlying issues. And then, of course, we wanna actually do some work in that first visit as well. So, even in just a few minutes of treatment, beginning this process of neuromuscular reeducation, after we have found these issues, you know, we start working on them. And then usually, within that first session, people notice some tangible improvement. And that’s really our goal for each session. Every time someone comes in, if they’re investing the time and money to come work with us or another practitioner, you know, we wanna have some result to show for it. So, that’s our goal is to have some tangible progress each session.

And on the rehab and training side the sessions feel somewhat similar in that you have, you know, some electrical current going through the body, combined with different movements and various progressions of different types of exercise, and tailored for whatever the individual wants to do. So, there’s definitely a very active component. You’re not just lying on a table having something done to you. It’s an active component. There’s movement involved. And using the electric current, while the movement is happening allows us to dramatically accelerate the results and the healing process or the training and adaptation process.

Katie: That’s so cool. And so, are you finding that other practitioners, that this could be used in conjunction with traditional physical therapy with chiropractic? Who’s typically kind of using this as a therapy?

Garrett: Yeah. So, it definitely can be a complement or an adjunct to traditional physical therapy, chiropractic, other medical treatments. And you know, at the time that we’re speaking today, the technology is being used in about 80 facilities around the country. And, you know, certainly, that number is growing, as more and more people are learning about it. So, I’m eager to see that number, and of course grow and allow us to reach even more people with this technology. And it’s used in a variety of these places, where some physical therapists have shifted to where they’re using this with everybody, and it’s one of the primary things that they use, others still do some manual work that they’re passionate about doing and enjoy. And, you know, they continue to use it because it has benefits also. And then they use this in conjunction with that.

Some chiropractors use it in combination with adjustments. And they’ve found that using the Neubie, particularly, before an adjustment, can have a profound impact on reducing the protective tension. So, if they’re going to adjust a patient, and that patient is guarding, and has all this protective tension, it’s tough to get a proper adjustment to get them the force into the right joints that you’re looking to move in the spine or elsewhere. And so, doing a treatment like this first, even in just a few minutes, can really loosen up all of the tissues there so they can get the adjustment that they’re looking for. So, we’ve heard some really positive feedback about how it can work into what other practitioners are doing.

Katie: I’m also really curious, as I’ve learned more about the electrical aspects of the body, something I track all the time is heart rate variability because there’s a lot of really cool data, I’m sure you know, showing that that’s tied to longevity and overall health. And you want that number to be higher, when possible. So I’m curious, because of the electrical component of this, do you guys see any changes over time on things like heart rate variability?

Garrett: So, I love that you are talking about this and working this into your dialogue, and the course of these podcasts and your other content because I agree with you. I think that is a very significant marker, something that we should definitely be looking at, something that definitely has a very high priority in the health conversation. So, I’m really pleased that you’re prioritizing that as well. And thankfully, we’ve seen profound changes in heart rate variability. So, we have just anecdotally, even in our office, and we have dozens of people who wear, whether it be an Oura ring, or a Whoop band, or other wearable technology, they see, you know, both right after a session and long term over time, improvements in their HRV. So, there’s both an acute and chronic benefit, if you will or, like, a short and long term benefit where HRV definitely goes up.

And I think that speaks to a couple things. One is definitely the underlying electrical components, that just strengthening the electrical potential of the body, you know, can have a profoundly positive effect on everything neurological, including HRV. And then also, specifically, there’s a very important concept that I think is often misunderstood, that the body actually has to be stimulated in order to recover. So, we think, in conventional wisdom, and it kind of makes sense, we think if we wanna recover well, we need to rest. But if you really look at it a layer deeper, if we’re just resting, you know, if we’re just sitting on the couch all day, the signal to the body is one of down-regulation. The signal is, “I don’t have much to do to today, we can down-regulate the metabolism.”

We can reduce the rate at which some of these neural pathways are firing. You know, we can down-regulate protein synthesis because we’re not gonna need as much muscle. And obviously, you know, one day of sitting on the couch, doesn’t send everything haywire. I’m not trying to imply that. But there is a little bit of a nuance here that I think is kind of a bit of a misconception, where we actually have to stimulate the body to recover. The recovery systems of the body, the hormonal and enzymatic releases, and heart rate variability, all of these underlying pieces of the recovery puzzle are working at their greatest level, right after a workout, right after something that stimulates them to happen.

And so, a lot of times, we think, you know, we’re working out, like, we’re going for a run, for example, and we think that, “Oh, I’m doing this thing that’s so healthy and I’m gonna get all these tremendous health benefits from it.” However, if you go and run and, you know, you’re panting and breathing through your mouth, and you’re slouching in your third position, the signal is actually one of training the body to be more sympathetic dominant, or get kind of locked in that stress or fight or flight state. And so, you don’t actually get enough of that signal to cause the shift into high heart rate variability after that workout. And so, how you train is important and getting enough neurological stimulation is important.

And so, when we do that same… Well, if that same person who was going to run for 45 or 60 minutes, and was mouth breathing, and in sub-optimal posture, you know, if they ended up training their body to have high cortisol levels, and low heart rate variability, and more of these markers of, you know, sympathetic fight or flight state. They come and do a 30-minute workout with us on the Neubie, and all of a sudden, their HRV shoots up because they’re getting so much more neurological stimulation. They’re getting so much more input to their brain, that the brain actually gets the point, you know, trips the alarm. And it’s actually enough to reach that threshold, where the brain says, “Oh, yes, something happened. And oh, yes, now it is time to switch into recovery mode.” And so, it’s going to activate the parasympathetic nervous system. It doesn’t just, you know, happen by default. It has to be actively engaged. And so, that will trigger the brain to actively engage the parasympathetic nervous system. So, I think that’s another important piece of it. And, you know, kind of explains one of those profound effects that we’ve seen.

Katie: So, what are some of the results that you’ve seen from this? I’m curious because you talk about the nervous system side, for instance, what about people who have lost movement or function in some way through the nervous system, like MS patients, for instance? Is this helpful for people like that or people in wheelchairs? Can it be helpful for them?

Garrett: So, thankfully, we’ve seen that it can be. And I just wanna be clear that, in anything I’m saying, you know, we’re not claiming to be able to cure MS or cure spinal cord injuries, or anything like that. What I’m saying is that the advanced form of neuromuscular reeducation that we are able to provide has helped improve function for many of these people. So, you know, it’s been a really powerful and gratifying, and awesome evolution to see how we’ve been able to help more people dealing with these challenges. I had been an athlete and set out, originally, working with people like me, with athletes, helping them recover from different injuries. And, you know, thankfully, it was working well.

But because of the more neurological path that we were taking, people that we worked with, is a woman named Amy, and she’s given me permission to share her story. So, she fell off a horse in her early 20s, broke her neck, and was paralyzed from the waist down for 25 years. And so, she made a little bit of progress in the first year or two, you know, regained bowel and bladder control, which is great, but never had regained the use of her legs or sensation in her legs. And so, for about 25 years, she was living life without the use of her legs, had adapted, had a great life, a very wonderful person, productive member of society, you know, just great all around, and again, without the use of her legs. And so, we started working with her.

And it was so interesting because we did that scanning process with her, mapping process, and we actually found a couple spots where we could get little glimpses of sensation, even after 25 years, when everyone had written her off and said, “There’s nothing anyone can do for you at this time. It’s been far too long.” And, you know, seeing that made us optimistic that maybe there was a way we could help. So, we started working together. Within the first few weeks, she started getting some sensation back, being able to sense hot and cold for the first time in 25 years, being able to sweat in her lower body, some of that autonomic underlying neurological function coming back. And then, we started seeing some movements, I mean, pretty early on some twitching of the toes, a little bit of ability to raise the leg, a little bit of hip flexion coming back.

And then fast forward, at the end of year one, she was able to stand and take a couple steps with hand support. And then, at the end of year two, she’s able to walk with a walker. And, you know, it’s just been a really amazing, amazing experience seeing her working hard and diligently, and actually seeing some return on that investment of time and energy. And she, you know, now is able to walk with a walker. She still, you know, spends a lot of time in a wheelchair, but to regain the level of function that she has, and still be making progress is amazing. And we have a little video, a few minutes of her sharing her story that we can certainly link to and make that available. And after people started to take note of her story, we have had more people with neurological challenges come and see us more, spinal cord injury or patients with brain injury, more people with neuropathy, certainly, more people with MS. I’ve done some work with Dr. Terry Wahls. Has she been on your show?

Katie: She has. Yeah. She’s phenomenal.

Garrett: Yes, one of my absolute favorite people. So, she, as you know, is just a true thought leader in functional medicine, overall, and specifically, in the more holistic treatment of MS. And she does phenomenal work to help people stop the underlying progression of the disease. And then once that’s in place, of course, you wanna work on rebuilding function. And so, we’ve worked with now, dozens of patients that have heard about us through her, many here in Austin, and are also our community of practitioners around the country. And we’ve seen some really profound results. Seen several people restore function. Some get out of wheelchairs, also, some will be able to return to activities of daily living, reduce pain, improve their sleep, improve their strength. So we’ve seen…you know, some have had profound transformations. Some have made mild to medium progress, but almost everyone has at least made some progress. And it’s been really cool to see some of those transformations, particularly, that have come out of the MS patients who are using this around the country.

Katie: Wow. That’s astounding. And, yeah, I love Dr. Wahls, and I love the work she’s doing. I know a lot of people who have even used her protocol for just things like autoimmune disease, and I know she’s writing more about that. But yeah, you’re right. She’s a thought leader and definitely an inspiration. I love that you are able to help some of her people as well because she’s just doing such amazing work. It’s incredible.

Garrett: Yeah. Absolutely. She’s, oh, gosh, real true inspiration and she just lives her mission. I mean, she is practicing what she preaches. And she’s awesome.

Katie: Yeah. Absolutely. And I know, from talking to you before, another big demographic for you guys, are professional athletes or high-level athletes. I know my friend, Ben Greenfield, uses your device all the time, he’s still competitive athlete. How are you seeing athletes use the device?

Garrett: So, that is definitely a demographic that appreciates this device. Athletes, whether professional, recreational, you know, athletes have the mindset of being able to push themselves through a little bit of temporary discomfort to achieve a long term result, a kind of delayed gratification mindset. And so, athletes who really do want to put in the work to achieve a result, are drawn to this technology because they can go through a few sessions, and they can recover much, much faster than they would with more traditional methods. So, we’ve seen athletes using this whole system, the device, and the progressions of exercises, and the different assessments.

You know, we’ve seen them recover everything from sprained ankles that happen. You know, high school football, huge here in Texas, and every season, we’ll have a few high school football players that have a sprained ankle and are supposed to be out for four weeks, at least. And they come in and see us, and they do a couple sessions each day. And, you know, the game is on a Friday night, and they’re back to practice Tuesday or Wednesday of that next week. They miss three or four days instead of four weeks. And they’re fired up because they thought they’re gonna have to miss three games. And all of a sudden, they’re out there playing next week.

So, the acute injuries that normally would take a long time to heal, those are a big opportunity to make improvements to the healing process because the reason it takes so long to heal most of the time is that, you know, it’s kind of funny, the body gets in its own way, in some sense, because the body… And it makes sense, you know, if someone has an ankle sprain, all the muscles around that ankle, contract and protect, and guard that area, thinking that, “Oh my gosh, if this tissue gets attacked again, you know, we wanna be locked down to protect it.”

And that is productive if someone was trying to hit that ankle or attack it. But it’s counterproductive for efficient movement and counterproductive for healing. And part of the reason for that is that the excessive tension, literally, just blocks the flow of blood. You can’t get the nutrients and the raw materials there to heal, and so, of course, you’re not gonna be able to heal as quickly. And by restoring more normal tone, optimal function of those muscles and breaking through those guarding and protective reflexes, we’re able to get rid of those impediments that are blocking and slowing down the healing process and allow the body to just do its thing.

And the amazing thing is that the body has such a massive capability of healing, has so much potential to heal, adapt, and grow, and change, and improve, that when we get those impediments out of the way, the healing happens so quickly, that it almost seems miraculous. And, you know, it’s still the same healing process the body has to go through, the same biology, the same rules still apply, just by getting out of the way, those impediments or those hurdles, it’s able to happen so much more quickly.

So, definitely, the acute injury piece, also, the same logic, same line of thought applies. After surgery, you know, there’s even more significantly, those guarding protective reflexes happen after the trauma of surgery, let alone the… You know, the original injury is bad, but the trauma of surgery being cut into and sewn together, and the trauma there causes these massive guarding and protective reflexes, and being able to work through those quickly, accelerates that healing process, significantly. Just, you know, it can knock weeks or months off the recovery a lot of times.

So that definitely, the recovery piece, the rehabilitation piece, and then similarly, to a lesser degree, in terms of what’s happening in the body. But the similar thing applies, recovering after games and practices, and workouts, where when the body is fatigued, and muscles can be short and more tense. Applying this signal and going through some of these same processes can help increase blood flow, reset the tone of muscles, increase heart rate variability, like you mentioned, to get the body in a state where it can recover as quickly and efficiently as possible. That’s a big one.

And then we have several athletes that like to use it for training, particularly in season, because they can… Well, anytime, in or out of season, they can use it before, you know, working out or doing player metrics or before anything that they need to have their muscles firing optimally. So, a few minutes on the machine can help reset the neurological firing patterns. And then during a workout, you can have it on and without having to lift heavy weights and load up the joints, and have the risks of injury associated with that, you can still get the benefits of heavy lifting, still get as much muscle recruitment, and do it for more reps, more safely with higher quality of movement, and get more done in less time and with lower risk. So, you can get, you know a 15 or 20-minute workout on the machine.

We’ve had professional bodybuilders who will normally do three-hour sessions for their legs, for example, they’ll only literally be in the gym for three hours. They’ll do 15 minutes on the machine of their leg workout. And they’re just breathing heavy and saying, “Man, I’m gassed, I can’t do anymore.” And it just intensifies that reeducation component. Teaching the body to engage more muscle at the same time, allows people to get a lot more bang for the buck. So, it’s definitely a range all the way through early stage rehab to training and elite performance.

This podcast is brought to you by Joovv. You’ve heard me talk about them before but their red light therapy or photobiomodulation lights are a part of my daily routine. Here’s why: There’s evidence that certain wavelengths of light are beneficial to the body in various ways. On a cellular level, they may help improve mitochondrial function and increase production of ATP, or cellular energy. This can manifest in clearer skin, more energy, quicker recovery and even increased hair growth. I use red light on my thyroid as part of my protocol along with a low inflammation diet and other lifestyle factors and am in complete remission of Hashimotos. Also, since I do spend careful and moderate time in the sun, I use red light to help protect my skin and guard against wrinkles. They now have two new innovations that make it even easier to get red light. The Joovv Go is a small handheld (and much more affordable) device that can be used on face, joints, hair or anywhere you want red light. For a more large scale option, their new modular design lets you order panels and group them together so you could have one unit alone or up to six all linked. Find out more at Joovv.com/wellnessmama and use the code WELLNESSMAMA to get a special gift.

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Katie: And for people listening, I’m wondering if people may be thinking, you know, “This sounds a little bit like a TENS unit” or something like that. There’s other, like, electrical stimulation type devices. So, can you, like, just go a little deeper on what the difference is or how it’s impacting the body differently?

Garrett: Yes. Absolutely. So, that is a great point. And that’s one of the most common questions we get. You know, people see pads on the body or electrodes on the body and say, “Oh, I have one of those” or “Oh, that’s a TENS unit.” And it is similar, in the sense that, it is a type of electrical stimulation. But it’s also a lot different. My favorite metaphor for this is to say that, you know, you have two cars, you have a Ferrari or a Tesla, something that’s super technologically advanced from 2019 right now. And then you have a Ford Taurus from the mid-1990s, and they’re both cars, they both can serve the same purpose, to some degree, but you can also do with one car a lot more things.

You know, think about bringing that Ferrari on a racetrack. You can do a lot more with one than you can do with the other. So, there’s more features, more power, more functionality. And the technology that we’re using, I think that’s a good metaphor because it’s just a generation or two beyond the TENS units or the Russian Stim or Interferential, or the other electrical modalities out there. And one of the reasons for that difference is the direct current versus alternating current. So, virtually everything else that’s out there is alternating current, whereas ours is direct. And that has an important effect on the underlying electrical system of the body and a lot of the stuff that you had brought up, and we talked about earlier.

And then the biggest difference on the nervous system here is this ability to stimulate more of the nervous system. So, it’s less about the muscles, more about the nervous system, that traditional electrical stimulation like we talked about that. Alternating current as that signal volleys back and forth, you create a lot more tension in the muscles, the muscles fight against each other. And that becomes the limit on how much current you can take. So, you’re limited by that on how much signal you can get into the body, how much impact you can have on the nervous system. Whereas, with the Neubie device, we’re able to preferentially, it’s not just one or the other, but preferentially more lengthening and relaxation of the tissues that we’re stimulating.

And so, you have less of those protective contractions, less of the co-contractions. And you can get more of that signal into the nervous system to get more of this signaling, more of this retraining effect, more of what we’re trying to do. And it also allows us to do that mapping process. So, it has that evaluation and that assessment component too. So, some of it is, you know, you have to just dig down one layer deeper to understand the differences. And it’s one of those things that, you know, sometimes has to be experienced, to really get the difference. You know, we can talk about it, but then when people feel it, they say, “Oh, yeah, now, I know what you’re talking about.”

Katie: For sure. Of course, I’ll put these in the show notes, the links, but let’s talk a little bit more about how people can experience because I wanna definitely mention that this is a pricey device that most people are not gonna buy for their home. But we’ve talked about how practitioners can buy one and use it in their office. And you have, of course, this facility in Austin, where I’m assuming people can come in to see you as well.

Garrett: Yeah. Absolutely. We do have…particularly through Dr. Wahls’s community, we’ve had several…a few dozen MS patients fly in from around the country to see us for a few days of intensive work. And then most of the time, they’ll rent a machine to bring home so they can…you know, we’ve made this progress. They wanna continue it just three or four days, usually, is not enough, obviously. So, that is definitely an option.

And we have a wonderful and growing community of practitioners around the country. So, I would absolutely, if any of this sounds interesting to you listening to this, if you have pain or you’ve been dealing with an injury, or you’re frustrated with how long it’s taking to recover from an injury, or you want help with some of these neurological challenges, or you wanna take your training to the next level, you know, please seek out some of our practitioners, our website… I know you said we’ll share the link. It’s neu.fit, N-E-U for neurological neu.fit/locations is gonna be the page on the site that has a map of all the facilities around the U.S. And later this year, we should have some international locations as well. And that was just, you know, being updated. So, hopefully, there will be someone… If there isn’t someone in your community now, hopefully, there will be soon. And we just wanna be able to reach as many people as we can with this.

Katie: And of course I’ll make sure all those links are in the show notes. As we get closer to the end of our time, some somewhat related questions I love to ask. The first being if there is a book or a number of books that have really changed your life? And if so, what they are and why?

Garrett: You know, that is an awesome question. And my first thought, first aha moment that comes to mind is “The Body Electric,” funny enough, because you mentioned that already. And I think it’s worth making another mention of “The Body Electric” because that was one of the first and most significant influences that has guided my thinking in this area. And it speaks to the incredible potential that we have to tap into the body’s own healing and regenerative powers. And in the work that we’re doing and everything we’ve been talking about here, we’re still only tapping into a fraction of that. So, that’s something that I’m excited to mention because, one, just the little bits that we’ve been able to tap into, that so far have had profoundly positive outcomes for people. And it’s kind of a guiding light North Star, for me because it motivates me to want to continue my own research in pushing this field forward and pushing our work forward to be able to harness even more of the power and impact that we can have by tapping into the electrical system of the body.

Katie: It’s so cool. Yeah. And I’m excited for more research in this area, too. I think over the next 10 years, it’s gonna be amazing what we learn and what we’re able to do. And in that note, what parting advice would you like to leave with the audience today, your encouragement to those listening?

Garrett: So, that’s a great question. I would say, play detective with yourself. You know, if you’re dealing with something, whether it be, you know, an actual disease or an injury, or a pain, or, you know, thankfully, you are healthy and you’re trying to work to improve in some area, I would say, play detective with yourself, consult experts like Katie and all of her wonderful content, and other people out there. There’s such a wealth of information, but finding a good quality source of information, who can give you ideas, give you frameworks how to think about things, and then take that information and apply it.

And when I say play detective, I mean, you know, measure, pay attention to what’s happening. If you’re trying to work on something, there’s a great saying in business that, “What gets measured, gets improved,” or, “What gets measured, gets managed.” And I am a big believer in that because, you know, some of the things that worked in a study for 40 people in another country who had some disease, you know, may not necessarily work for you, or something that didn’t work for other people, may actually work for you.

And so, I think paying attention, finding something to measure to actually track progress and tracking results, and playing self detective is kind of the first thing I would like to encourage people to do. And I’ve seen, you know, that’s helped me tweak and refine all the things that we’re now using with teaching our practitioners, and with all of our patients, and clients around the country. And that’s still something that I’m always trying to do research and push this field forward. And I love self-experimentation and measuring HRV, like you said, is a great place to start there. So, find some meaningful metrics and use them to track your way to progress.

Katie: I love that. I think that’s a perfect place to wrap up. And like I said, I’ll make sure links to NeuFit, and to finding practitioners, and to “The Body Electric,” and everything we’ve talked about, are in the show notes at wellnessmama.fm. So if you guys are driving or running, or anything else, don’t worry about writing them down, just head over to wellnessmama.fm and all the links will be there.

Garrett, thank you so much. I know that you are busy in all that you do, both as a practitioner working with people, and in research and development, all these things. So, I’m really honored that you took the time to be here and share today.

Garrett: Thank you so much, Katie. This was a fabulous conversation. I really appreciate it and appreciate you, and the work you’re doing and the great content you’re putting out there. So thank you.

Katie: Thank you. And thanks to all of you for listening and sharing one of your most valuable assets, your time, with both of us today. We’re so grateful that you did and I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the “Wellness Mama Podcast.”

Thanks to Our Sponsors

This podcast is brought to you by Joovv. You’ve heard me talk about them before but their red light therapy or photobiomodulation lights are a part of my daily routine. Here’s why: There’s evidence that certain wavelengths of light are beneficial to the body in various ways. On a cellular level, they may help improve mitochondrial function and increase production of ATP, or cellular energy. This can manifest in clearer skin, more energy, quicker recovery and even increased hair growth. I use red light on my thyroid as part of my protocol along with a low inflammation diet and other lifestyle factors and am in complete remission of Hashimotos. Also, since I do spend careful and moderate time in the sun, I use red light to help protect my skin and guard against wrinkles. They now have two new innovations that make it even easier to get red light. The Joovv Go is a small handheld (and much more affordable) device that can be used on face, joints, hair or anywhere you want red light. For a more large scale option, their new modular design lets you order panels and group them together so you could have one unit or up to six all linked. Find out more at Joovv.com/wellnessmama and use the code WELLNESSMAMA to get a special gift.

This podcast is brought to you by Thrive Market, a company I’ve loved for years and order from all the time. In fact, the majority of the non-perishable and frozen foods you’ll find in my house are from Thrive. If you haven’t checked them out, you definitely need to and you can get a completely risk free 30-day trial as a listener of this podcast at thrivemarket.com/wm. Here are just a few of the reasons you’ll love them: They have over 500 of their own Thrive Market brand products that are incredible quality and at amazing prices. These include everything from bulk ingredients and spices to chips, salsa, nuts, snacks, and things like tuna and sardines. These are all non-GMO and most are organic, and at prices cheaper than conventional alternatives in my local stores. They also have high quality meat and seafood as well… from completely grass-fed meat to pastured pork and free-range chicken and it’s all delicious. Thrive is essentially an online Costco meets Whole Foods online and at much better prices. In my most recent order, you’d find a bunch of tuna and sardines, bulk nuts and spices, plantain and cassava chips, crackers, condiments, and snacks…. all Thrive Market brand and all favorites at our house. If you haven’t, you’ve got to check it out. Go to thrivemarket.com/wm to start your 30-day free trial and see for yourself how awesome it is.

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clean no 00:45:35 Katie Wells
281: Building Resiliency, Mindset and Doing the Impossible With Joel Runyonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/joel-runyon/ Mon, 12 Aug 2019 11:00:24 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=417560

One of the best parts about hosting a podcast is meeting so many amazing people who push themselves to be their best and influence the world. My guest today, Joel Runyon, has one of those stories! Joel is the creator of one of the best paleo and keto resources out there, called Ultimate Paleo Guide and Ultimate Meal Plan, as well as the daily movement and mobility coaching app, MoveWellApp.com. If that’s not enough, he also founded Impossible®, a performance lifestyle company focused on helping people push their limits and transform mindset through hard physical challenges.

And let me tell you, Joel has some experience in that arena! Incredibly, he became the youngest person in the world to run an ultramarathon on every continent, including Antarctica. He takes on crazy challenges all of the time in the name of health, growth, and zest for life.

He wasn’t always a successful entrepreneur and endurance athlete though. Quite the opposite! Take a listen to find out how he turned it all around. It might just give you some ideas about your own story…

Episode Highlights With Joel Runyon

  • The life events that led Joel to his own personal rock bottom
  • Why he turned to extreme sports to find his way out
  • How the right mindset can solve 99% of a problem
  • What difficult physical challenges can do for the mind and heart
  • Why we shouldn’t want all of our challenges to go away
  • The reasons a college education won’t always get you what you want
  • Skills kids (and adults) need to excel in real life
  • Ways to recreate your story and map a new future
  • Key movements to try for your best flexibility and mobility in everyday life
  • And more!

Resources We Mention

More From Wellness Mama

Did you enjoy this episode? Please drop a comment below or leave a review on iTunes to let us know. We value knowing what you think and this helps other moms find the podcast as well.

Read Transcript

Katie: Hello, and welcome to “The Wellness Mama Podcast.” I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com. And I’m here today with a new friend I’m excited to share with you. Joel Runyon is the founder of Impossible, which is a performance lifestyle company focused on helping people push their limits and transform mindset through hard physical challenges which he has some experience in. As an endurance athlete in 2017, he became the youngest person in the world to run an ultramarathon on every continent, including Antarctica. He’s also the creator of the Paleo and Keto resource called Ultimate Paleo Guide, and Ultimate Meal Plan, as well as the daily movement and mobility coaching app, movewellapp.com. Joel, welcome and thanks for being here.

Joel: Awesome. Thanks for having me.

Katie: Well, to start, I would love to hear about Impossible as the brand and as the mission and just kind of walk us through what that is and how it was born.

Joel: Yeah, so the story it feels like, you know, it’s been just a few years back but I actually started, I think back in 2010, I graduated school and did everything I was supposed to do growing up, you know, went to college, got a double major, traveled abroad. And I basically graduated in the middle of the 2009 recession. And so I did all these things you’re supposed to do growing up, got all like my GPAs, and, you know, learned Spanish and traveled abroad, did sports. And then I graduated and then the next thing, you know, on that checklist is go get a job. And I graduated in that recession and I couldn’t get a job for like nine months. And this basically, put me in a world where I was just questioning, you know, what the narrative that I had been fed for a while.

And it’s a long story. I applied to a bunch of different places. Eventually, I got turned down at all of them, eventually was applying to places like Starbucks and couldn’t get called back from Starbucks. And I was basically sitting in my parent’s basement at the time, you know, wondering if this was it, this is what I signed up for, this is what I did all this work for. So I went to school got this piece of paper for. And I just felt bad for myself for a while. I didn’t really do anything about it at first, I just kind of watched a bunch of Netflix, and drowned in my own sorrow for a little bit.

But I was writing down all these things that I wanted to do, I was still pretty aspirational about these things I actually wanted to do. And I saw some friends of mine, you know, starting businesses, getting jobs, traveling the world. And I wanted to do all these things, but I couldn’t even get a job at Starbucks and everything seemed really impossible for me. And so while I was watching Netflix, I was kinda like making this list for a while. And I think I ended up eventually running out of Netflix shows to watch, it was 2009, 2010 not a lot of stuff on there. And eventually, you know, I finished, you know, kind of escaping into the world of Netflix and took another look at my list. And all the stuff on my list still seemed pretty impossible. I didn’t have any money. I couldn’t travel the world, I couldn’t start my own business, I could barely…you know, I couldn’t even get a job.

But one of the things on my list was run a triathlon. And I didn’t have an excuse for why I couldn’t run a triathlon. And so I decided, you know, there’s no excuse for me not to put on my shoes and run around the block. And there’s no excuse for me not to get on like my crappy old Middle School mountain bike and ride around the block and start training for this thing. And so even though I didn’t know anything about triathlons, I decided I was going to sign up and do it. And I signed up for an indoor one at Life Time Fitness because I didn’t wanna drown in the open water swim of a normal triathlon. And I was really nervous about it. I didn’t really know anything about triathlons. But I signed up, I did it, and trained for two months, and I did it. And I remember thinking at the end of that, “You spent so much time telling yourself that this was impossible. What other things out there could you actually go out and do if you just trained for it and went for it?”

And so that kind of became like the inciting incident for me to go out and, like, start looking at this list that I had made that I thought everything felt impossible, but like, what if I went out and actually tried to do it. And so that was kind of the origin story. And so from there, I just kind of started challenging myself to do longer and longer races. I started realizing, once I started pushing myself that I could go a lot farther than I ever anticipated. And then I took that same type of mindset and applied it to like my job search. And then eventually how I approached a couple of the first jobs, I was able to actually get and work my way up. And then eventually, you know, leaving and starting my own stuff.

So Impossible, yeah, that’s kind of the origin story of Impossible. But kind of the mission of Impossible is to use hard physical, difficult challenges, to transform your mindset and transform the way you both, you know, see yourself, but also see the world. And, you know, by putting yourself in those situations where they’re hard, difficult or you’re not quite sure if you can do them, you push through and you’re able to do them anyways. You kind of come out the other side with a different perspective on what you’re capable of. And so that was the origin story. But since you know, I’ve done a lot more, you know, I got…I basically tricked myself through triathlons into becoming a runner, started doing a lot of ultramarathons, ended up doing several different races for charity. And I think today we’ve raised almost $300,000 for different educational non-profit. So that’s kind of…you know, it’s been eight or nine years or so, but that’s like the quick couple minute overview of how it got started.

Katie: I love that story so much. And I love that you are doing this also to help charities as well, and to bring awareness, that’s amazing. For anyone who isn’t familiar. So I’ve ran a triathlon and that is to me, a tremendous accomplishment, it’s no small feat. You now run ultramarathons can you just define what that is for anyone who doesn’t know?

Joel: An ultramarathon is anything beyond a normal marathon. So if you run a normal marathon, and then you like run home, or you run the 7-Eleven, or anything, it’s technically an ultramarathon. But typically, most ultramarathons are anywhere between a 50K, which is about 31 miles, and 100 miles. But now people are getting crazy and they’re like, people are doing 200-mile races, multi-day races. And you know, kind of once you dive into this world, people get really nutty really quick, but typically an ultramarathon starts at 50K, and it will go, you know, as far as people will let it go.

Katie: What’s the longest one you’ve ever run?

Joel: So the longest that one that I did was the 100K in Antarctica.

Katie: Wow. So you picked the coldest place to run the longest…

Joel: Yeah, so it was 62 miles I think that was that one, so. But yeah, like, once you get into the space, it’s like, okay, it’s like 100K, but there are definitely people who do 100-mile races all the time. And then it just raises your sights on what’s possible and what people actually do out there. And that was one of the mind-blowing things for me was, you know, I kind of kept myself before I ever got in this world I was like, I don’t even know if I can do a triathlon. And so I didn’t even do like a sprint triathlon, I did an indoor triathlon. And once you kind of peek into this world, it just keeps going and going and going. And you realize what people are capable of when they decide to do it.

Katie: Yeah, that’s amazing. And another thing you mentioned that I think it’s important to talk about a little bit more is the education side, how you went to college, got the double major, you checked all the boxes you were supposed to check. And I’ve heard this story so many times. And it’s something I think about quite a bit as a parent now, because I’m gonna have kids before too long, who are at the age of deciding to go to college or not. And I get the feeling that the education system has drastically changed even since we were there. And certainly, since our parents were there. So I’m curious. Now, being on the outside of this, and having created this entrepreneurial life and this career that helped people, do you have a different perspective looking back on, for instance, going to college, education? And would you do it again? Or would you pursue other options earlier?

Joel: So the way I’ve said it for myself is I think we’re like the last few years where you could kind of make the case for college if you like. Even since I graduated college has gone up dramatically. And I just don’t see the ROI on it like from a financial…like, people wanna talk about, okay, there’s an experience and, you know, you could talk about that. I think I would have much rather just taken the money and like…or even half the money and put it towards like experimenting in different entrepreneurial manners. Because all the things that I did in school like nothing really was super actionable. I think I probably could have paid better attention in like accounting class, and I would actually have been probably the more like, useful class that I had taken. But I remember we took like a class on entrepreneurship, and it was about putting a business plan together and pitching people, and it’s like…and I haven’t done a business plan like that yet, you know, most of my stuff has been bootstrapping. So it’s been much more about like, gaining an audience and building traffic and creating products that people resonate with.

And so, for me, from an education standpoint, I think education, like a basic education, is really, really important. And that’s, you know, the stuff that we do with Pencils of Promise, as far as making sure people have…you know, under-resourced areas around the world have the chance to learn to read and do math. And you know, learn these really basic skills that we kind of take for granted. But then when it gets to this higher education, and you know, there’s some places where I think being…you know, if you’re gonna be a lawyer, you have to do what you have to do, if you’re gonna be a doctor, you have to do what you have to do. But for what I went to school for, and I kind of was one of those guys that went into school, and I was like, “I don’t know exactly what I wanna do,” you know, all these careers that people have had picked out since third grade, I’m not one of those guys. There was never any messaging for that person for me.

And so I wouldn’t have…I don’t think I would have, if I had the chance to go back and you know, spend that money again and spend those four years, I think I would have done it in a different way. And, you know, with costs going up the way they have, even since I graduated, I definitely don’t think I would spend the money that they’re charging these days unless it was a just a top-tier school. And at that point, you’re just basically buying into the group of people that you…you know, the network that you wanna be in. And so we can go…I’ve got this whole…you know, I’ve got a much longer rant on that, but I just don’t see the ROI for the types of classes that I took. And I think there’s a lot of other ways that I could have invested that time and energy and learned skills that were a little bit more practical.

Katie: Yeah, I agree with you wholeheartedly on that. And as someone who’s also a really good student, and I was very good at the game of taking tests and all of that in school, like I did what I was supposed to do in the education side. And then in the adult world, and especially in the entrepreneur world, I realized there were still a lot of skills I had to learn on the fly, and especially things like tolerance for failure and resilience. Because those things are not built, and at least they weren’t built into my education, especially if you’re a decent student and you don’t have to fail very often. I feel like that’s something that was really a big jump for me at the beginning of my entrepreneurial journey and in parenthood because there’s a lot of struggles built in there as well. And it’s something I know you talk about quite a bit is, you know, building resiliency, and how do you develop that tough mindset. And I think for all the parents listening, that’s something really important to impart to our kids that are probably not getting necessarily from the education system. So let’s talk mindset a little bit and how you were able to make that switch personally, and then now how you help people do the same.

Joel: Yeah, so one of the core things that I talk about is like trying to get people out of their head and into their bodies. And, you know, a lot of people have digital-related jobs. So they’re doing jobs where they’re sitting behind a computer all day, or, you know, even if they’re not, they’re looking at their phone all the time, and we live so much of our lives, in our head. And we have all these mental stresses that just live in your head they’re not like out in real life. And, you know, even like 100 years ago, if you’re like actually stressed at your job, it was because you’re doing physical labor or something. And at least then you’d get like some sort of endorphin rush from, you know, the actual physical workout. And so people end up being stressed all the time, mentally from these different situations, but they’re not able to like, get it out, they’re not able to do anything with it, because they’re just like confined at their desk.

And so, for me, I found I was like having a real hard time when I was in my parent’s basement, trying to like deal with the stresses of life and figuring out how to, like, navigate this new world. Because I didn’t have any way to like…I didn’t have any outlet, I didn’t have anything to do or to focus that, you know, kind of energy on and it just kind of spiraled for lack of a better word. And so for me, what I found is taking on these physically difficult, hard challenges, does wonders for when teaching you about doing hard things, whether they’re actually physical or they’re mental. Once I realized, like, I can go run 50 miles, and it’s really hard and a mile 30, and mile 40, and mile 45, I’m gonna wanna quit, but I can keep going anyways. I was able to take that mindset and take that to pretty much everything else like to entrepreneurship, to relationships. To go realizing that like just because something is hard just because something’s painful, doesn’t mean it’s necessarily bad. And doesn’t mean I can’t do it, it just means it’s gonna be, like slightly painful for a while.

And, you know, when people talk about running these ultramarathons or, you know, running these far distances, you know, they could say like, “Oh, it’s so far, it’s so difficult, I can never do that.” But if you like, zoom out, and you’re like, “Okay, well, I’m gonna be going, you know, I’m gonna be moving for 8 hours, I’ll be in like, maybe a lot of pain for 8 hours, or 12 hours or, you know, 16 hours, or whatever the number is.” But it’s just 16 hours. It transforms your perspective on what you’re able to do and what you’re able to deal with. And when you go through those things, and they’re actually physically difficult, where you’re like, I remember at mile 45, when, like, my back seized up and like I didn’t think I could keep going and I just wanted to go home and I quit and then I didn’t. You can take that reference point, you can take that specific memory that real-life thing that happened, and remind yourself in other areas of your life that, “I can go out and I can do this hard thing too.”

And so, you know, that’s a lot harder to do if you never have like real physical experiences, and you just live in your head or you live on your phone or you live in your computer. And if you’re able to, like, go out in the real world, have a real, meaningful, difficult experience, and be able to point to that, it’s a reminder to yourself that you can do hard things. And for me, that was the biggest thing like I still don’t…you know, when I finished that first triathlon, part of me still didn’t believe that I did it. I was like, “No, you couldn’t do this, other people could do this, but you couldn’t do this.” But then I had like the results list and I had the times, and I pointed it on the sheet, and I was like, “Well, actually, you know, no matter what you think about yourself, you just did that. So you are now the person that can do that type of thing.” So what’s the next thing that’s on the list? And what can you go do next?

And I think that’s really, really important, and really underutilized. Where, like I said, most people I think live in their head, and they’re scared…they get stuck in their head. Because so much of our stuff is on our phone or on our computer, or, you know, you’re just processing it mentally. And when you’re able to put it out into the physical, into the real world, there’s something about it that lets you completely change how you look at a certain situation, and what you’re capable of.

Katie: Yeah, exactly, like, I think there’s so much right now that’s popular about doing all of the inner work and the mental work and then how that’s gonna manifest in your life. And I think the only thing really why is about, just doing it with your body, even if your mind hasn’t quite caught up and then letting your mind learn from that. And like I said, I’ve only done a triathlon. But the mindset part you talked about actually just reminded me of labor with my babies, because it’s like you said at 16 hours in my case, usually like 24 hours. But it’s just 24 hours, in my mind I tell myself that like I can do anything for 24 hours, I can do this. And then the mindset like that mental toughness on the other side, when you accomplish it is incredible. And you get to keep that with you. And it’s such a good reminder when you have struggles, any other struggles that come up that are smaller than that, you’re like, “Well, I already did that, so, of course, I can get through this.”

I love the idea too how you talk about an impossible list, because you know, like everybody has their like bucket list? But that’s like the things you do before you die, which is kind of depressing. I love this idea of an impossible list, which is kind of like fun challenges to conquer. So I’m curious, what are some of the things both on your own one right now and that you have people in your community? Like what are some popular things people put on this impossible list?

Joel: Yeah, so the real quick delineation between a bucket list and impossible list is that a bucket list, kind of people tend to making a bucket list, and they get real excited about making a bucket list. And they’re like, “Hey, here’s all the things I’m gonna do before I die” and they make it, they get all excited. And then they get real excited when they make it and then they don’t do anything on it.

An impossible list kind of really started from that first triathlon. There’s like a couple things I actually felt impossible. And it wasn’t a big list. It wasn’t, you know, anything crazy, but like an indoor triathlon was on my list. And the goal was, do something that actually feels impossible right now. And don’t worry about everything else. Don’t worry about making like 75 things on it, you know, add a couple things right now that feel impossible, and go and do them. And then once you go do them, your understanding of what’s possible continues to expand.

And so the difference between an impossible list and a bucket list is a bucket list you kind of make one time and then, you know, maybe or maybe not you would like you cross everything off as you go. And the goal of the impossible is basically to continue to grow with you over time, and get bigger and more expansive as you kind of become bigger and more expansive. And so this is actually kind of been an interesting problem that I had because I had…you know, I basically went from doing these indoor triathlons, or I did one indoor triathlon, did a bunch of other triathlons and got into running and ultra running. And I did all these ultramarathons on every continent like we talked about a little bit. And now, one of the things that I’ve actually struggled with a little bit is how do you do…what’s next after you do such a big thing?

And so, you know, for a lot of people in the community, a lot of people start off with the triathlon, running kind of paradigm where they… The nice part about the running community is it’s set up in those stages, where you could say, “Hey, I’m gonna do a 5K, I’m gonna do a 10K, I’m gonna do a half marathon, I’m gonna do a marathon.” And it’s very gradual and it’s very specifically well laid out.

For me, right now, I’ve got a couple different races that are on my radar, but they’re a little bit logistically difficult to coordinate and organize. So one of them is called the Red Bull X-Alps, and it’s a race, it’s an ultra-running race/paragliding race across like the Swiss Alps. It’s like sponsored by Red Bull. And it’s awesome. And I don’t even know how to paraglide, but I’ll learn it and I wanna do it. And then there’s like a seven-day ultramarathon across Iceland that I wanna do. And those are kind of like the next couple things for me, but a lot of people in the space, they’ll start with different shorter races. And for some people who…you know, some people will say, “Hey, I’d love to run a marathon. But you know, I’m 100 pounds overweight, or, you know, it’s gonna take me even if I wanna run a marathon, it’s gonna take me 20 weeks to get started with that.”

And so one of the things, and this kind of ties into what we just talked about. One of the things that I have a lot of people do is, you know, if they’re just starting out, and they just wanna get used to doing something difficult or uncomfortable or challenging. But they’re not ready for like a marathon or an ultramarathon is I call it cold shower therapy. I did a TEDx talk on it a long time ago. But since like Wim Hof has, you know, blown up with ice baths. And I know you’re a big cold therapy fan, but I tell people to do like five minutes of freezing cold showers, or just five minutes of ice baths. And what I’ve found is that’s like a super simple way for a lot of people to get started doing small, physically uncomfortable activities. And, you know, it’s also just five minutes. And you can…anyone can do anything for five minutes.

And so yeah, those are…that’s kind of a quick overview of the impossible list. But one of the things that I’ve found is that some people get really intimidated when they’re like, “Oh, you know, impossible list means I have to run an ultramarathon tomorrow.” It’s like, no, you can do it in small ways, you can do it in small formats. And you can start where you’re at. And the list will grow with you over time and that’s what’s cool about it.

Katie: I love that. And you touched on something that I think is worth highlighting, which is kind of the idea of getting comfortable with discomfort, which is not something that’s common in our society anymore, like we have the ability a lot of times to just comfortable all the time. And I’m so with you on the cold, I think, actually, it’s been one of my best teachers, because I was never great at meditation or like quieting my mind because it’s just always going in a million directions. And when I get in, you know, 40 or 38-degree water, I’m instantly able to have singleness of thought and just breathe. And it’s been a great teacher for me. And it’s also that mental teacher of that I can do this for five minutes and I’m not gonna die from this.

So I love that. I’m curious what your, just out of curiosity, what your training regimen looks like, especially for some of these more obscure races where like it’s paragliding, or it’s more than just running, how do you train for that?

Joel: Well, the paragliding one I don’t know yet. I need to go take lessons or something. But that’s an interesting challenge where you’re like, “Oh, I’m gonna become a beginner again and I’m gonna be really bad at this.” And I think that’s always a little bit scary, especially once you’ve gotten slightly proficient at something to go be bad at something again or remember how it is to look stupid and mess up a bunch. So right now, my training regimen is just actually, I really focused on just lifting weights a lot, the last few years, over the last year probably. But while I was doing the ultramarathons, this is something that’s actually interesting is I launched this 777 Project, a while back, and seven ultramarathons, seven continents, and we wanted to build seven schools. And when I first started, I was just like, “I’m gonna just start running all the time. I’m gonna run when I wake up, I’m gonna run before I go to bed, every single day, run, run, run, run, add a bunch of more miles, get time on your feet, I gotta get used to going these distances.”

And so I was training, I was actually in really great shape. And I go down to Patagonia, Chile to run this first race. And 26 miles in, I come around this curve, where there’s a tailwind, so there’s a 25 mile per hour tailwind and so it’s kind of boosting you along the course and you’re feeling really good. Twenty-six miles in, I come around this corner, the wind shifts and basically blows me across the road. I’m running downhill and end up trying to catch myself basically, as I go downhill, end up rolling my left ankle, really bad. I’ve been an athlete for a long time, I’ve rolled ankles before I was like, “Okay, I’m just gonna, you know, suck it up and, you know, walk it off and finish this race.” Spoiler, I couldn’t actually run the rest of the race. But I did finish it, I like limped through the rest of the way home and I thought, “Okay, I’m just gonna ice this and I’ll be fine. You know, when this is all said and done.”

And it turns out I got back home after the race. And I went from running 20 miles to barely being able to run like two blocks. And I was like, “Oh, no, something’s wrong.” And what happened was, I basically severely sprained my peroneal tendon. I didn’t quite like snap it, but it was pretty bad. And I started realizing that like, “Oh, just running all the time is not the answer.” And so what happened was, I had to do six months of rehab to get back to the point where I was able to run again.

And then when I was finally able to actually start training again, I ended up running actually a lot less than I had previously been running but doing a lot more cross-training and a lot more mobility, and recovery work. And what happened was that allowed me to basically run the next six races, within a period of like, three, three and a half months. And what I realized was like, there’s a lot more to running and staying healthy and, you know, a full like training protocol than just running all the time. And so I’ve really tried to kind of maintain that. I really like the overall idea of being functionally fit. And not just being like, “Okay, I’ve got, you know, big muscles or I could do whatever,” but like, being ready for any adventure that comes my way. Like, I never wanna be able to…I never wanna have to turn down an adventure, because I’m not in like, the shape I need to be to go and do that. Whether that’s like, you know, climb a mountain, or, you know, do this ultramarathon, or go see these random parts of the world that you can only get to on foot.

I really like that kind of personal challenge, because, you know, I’ve never thought about myself as a runner. I’m not a small runner guy, you know, a lot of runners are, you know, 5’5″ and like 120 pounds or something like that. I’m like 6’2″ and 210, like, I’m a big dude. And so for me, like fitness and these challenges have always been about, one, what can I find out about myself during these ultramarathons? And then, two, what can I see in the world that I would normally never get a chance to see? And those two things combined are just…like it’s a much better reason to me to be fit and to get into shape. And to be able to be functionally, you know, healthy to do all these different things than just to be like, “Hey, I’m going to go flex in front of the mirror for, you know, like, a couple hours.” I like the idea and the challenge of going out in the world and doing these types of things. So I don’t know if that answers your question, but that was a little bit of a ramble if you will.

Katie: It does. And as someone who also does not feel like a natural runner, and pretty much anytime I run, I’m just like, “Oh, when is this gonna end?” I much prefer weight training. And I’ve read some interesting studies actually, and from coaches in different types of sports that are using really heavy weight training, actually, to train their endurance athletes or their sprinters. Because it’s supposed to actually increase certain muscle fibers and the ability to, I guess, have increased endurance and fast-twitch fibers. Have you seen any of that data? Or has that been true in your experience? Like are you able to get those same benefits without having to do as much endurance, because I know there’s also some data that extreme endurance and extreme cardio all the time can be detrimental over the long run as well.

Joel: So I found that the weight training, actually, like muscularly balanced me out, because I’m a very…like, if you look at me, I’m very quad and calf heavy. I’m like very happy with, you know, the way I run even, like, I’m just a quad and calf heavy person. And what actually I found out, you know, this freak accident that happened in Patagonia, was really…it was a little bit of a freak accident, but it was kind of just like waiting to happen. Because long story short, I’ve super tight hips, I’ve kind of weak hamstrings and glutes. And so what was happening was my stride was getting off. And, like, you know, this would have happened one way or another. But basically, one hip was tighter than the other, one stride is a little bit shorter.

And it was basically, I was just kind of reinforcing, like, once you have a weak muscular group or like a specific area, and you don’t do anything to address it, it just kind of digs yourself a rut, if you will. And so what happened when I started weight training was I started actually rebalancing myself a little bit, I started building hamstring and glute strength. And I started like actually changing the way, both my form and kind of how my overall running gait, like the performance of my overall running gait. And so that on its own, like beyond, you know, people wanna debate the merits of strength training versus cardio and all this other stuff.

And for me, I found…and I think you’re seeing a lot of runners really start to realize this is that it’s really easy to develop bad habits while running. And if you’re able to put in the time, even three times a week, to do some strength work along with that, you really…you kind of insulate yourself from a lot of the injuries that runners get from just repetitive running over and over again, because they’re never taking the time to address the weaknesses. And so if you can do that with strength training, I think the combo is really awesome. And for me, again, you know, the goal being, functionally fit to go out and do adventure in the world. I need both, you know, you need to be strong, you need to be able to have endurance capacity. And just picking up a boulder and putting it down or, you know, being able to like, lift something that’s incredibly heavy, but not being able to run for 20 minutes, like that’s not a good end result for me.

So what I found is when I started doing that strength training, and I started adding some mobility work on top of that. That kind of gave me the best of both worlds, where I was like, “Hey, I’m able to do these, you know, hard endurance challenges, but I’m also preventing myself from injury. And I’m not really, you know, just letting myself create these bad habits without having to address them on a daily or a weekly basis.”

Katie: That makes sense. And you also have the MoveWell app, right, which is for the mobility and movement side. Is that helpful as well, especially for people who are training at that level?

Joel: Yeah, so this is something that we actually created a lot of. A lot of my businesses come from things where I’m like, “Man, you need to do this, and like, you need to be better at this.” And so when I got hurt, I was going to like physical therapy maybe two times, three times a week, or something like that. And it’s like 60 bucks a session or it’s like 100 bucks a session. And I’d go into physical therapy, and I’d be really good about doing all the work that they told me to do. And then they’d give me homework, and I’d go home, and I would not do any of it. And I feel like a lot of people are kind of like this, where everybody’s got a foam roller or everybody’s got, you know, like a lacrosse ball or a tennis ball that they know they should be doing something, maybe they’re not even an athlete, but they’re sitting down all day. And they’ve got lower back pain, or they’ve got specific issues. And one of the things that I just realized is like, you know, I’m really good, you know, going back to the education thing, if I’ve had someone tell me exactly, you know what to do, I’m really good about doing that. But if I’m just left to my own devices, and coming up with my own routines and what to do with a foam roller, I’m not as good at that.

So basically, we built MoveWell, so I would have a portable coach at home with me. And the idea is that we do prescriptive routines so, and just instead of just saying, “Hey, roll out your hamstrings,” we say, “Hey, what’s your specific problem? Do you have like lower back pain? Are you getting ready for a run? Are you just like…you’re trying to do everyday mobility and just trying to stay a little bit loose and you’ve got 10 minutes.” We basically put together routines of specific movements that are, you know, 10 to 15 minutes long. And we have a timer, tutorials, and a coach and we walk you through all the different movements. So you’re not just like foam rolling your left hamstring, and then you know, turning on the TV and doing something else. We try to make it prescriptive. So each routine has a specific goal for it. And you’re not just doing kind of a one size fits all mobility routine.

So we started that, actually after I got hurt. And we’re expanding it quite a bit this year. And we’re really excited for what’s coming up with that. Because I think that’s one of those things where most people don’t realize how much they can do. You know, on Impossible, I talk about pushing past your limits and doing more than you think you can. But one of the corollaries of that is that you also have to take care of your body, much more than you might be able to get away with if you’re not pushing yourself. So if you’re just doing your everyday thing, and then all of a sudden you start, you know, really pushing yourself really hard in the gym or running or anything like that. You have to really kind of step up your level of self-care and recovery and what you’re gonna allow yourself to do.

And so, you know, we want people to push themselves, we want them to experience more things and do impossible things. But we also want people to take care of themselves and recover well. And there’s a quote, I’m not sure how accurate it is but I like the message of it. And it’s, “There’s no such thing as overtraining, just under-recovery.” And what I’ve found is a lot of people can really push themselves a lot further than they think they can. But you have to take care of yourself first. And if you’re not focused on recovery, and that aspect, that’s where injuries pop up, that’s where things crop up where they’ll set you back, you know, two, four, six months or something like that. And that’s kind of what we wanna avoid.

Katie: And that’s such an accurate, it’s like correlation to life in general, is like, you know, you can push hard in any area, but you also have to put in the time for recovery. And whether it be self-care or to sleep, like most people don’t even prioritize sleep anymore. I’m curious, do you have any sleep rituals? Because I guess training takes a pretty big toll on the body. Do you have anything that helps you sleep or maintain your sleep quality?

Joel: Yeah, I really like to take cold showers before I go to bed. Something about it calms me down, it’s really hard to…I just moved to Texas. And it’s actually really hard to take cold showers here. I just got the chiliPAD, I still haven’t set it up yet, but I’m really excited about that. And then I have like Sleep Induction Mats, I’ve got a couple of different ones. I think I just have a general one. But then I just picked up the one from the Akuspike guys. And I love that, that was a game-changer for me. And a sleep induction mat is basically just this mat with a bunch of little spikes on it. And something about it, it just forces me to relax as I fall asleep. And then, you know, you lay on it for 10 or 15 minutes then you roll off. So I literally have the chiliPAD like right behind me, and I have to get it set up here sometime soon. But I’m excited about that.

And then the sleep induction mats to me were like…when I was traveling, I was traveling for two years straight and I travel really light and the sleep induction mat was so important to me that I was like, I made it a part of just my packing gear. And it takes up a decent amount of space. So it wasn’t like a small commitment to my overall luggage, but it was that important. And it was that helpful with me getting sleep on a regular basis that I decided to keep it in rotation.

Katie: Well, I know where I stand, but you’ve got to get the chiliPAD out of the box. It’s totally a game changer when it comes to sleep. I love it, like when I travel now, I like to use it so much, especially with anywhere warm, just like, “Oh, where’s my chiliPAD?”

Joel: Like, call the hotel up ahead of time you’re like, “Hey, do you have a chiliPAD you can set up for me because that would be great.”

Katie: I have a friend who ships one everywhere he goes before he gets there.

Joel: Are you serious?

Katie: Completely. I’m not quite to that level yet but I love, love, love the chiliPAD. And they now have the one called OOLER which might be the one you have that’s, like, you can program I think from your phone. But yeah, total game-changer when it comes to sleep. But I would think the cold shower idea would be a similar like thing cooling your body temperature, somebody who doesn’t have a chiliPAD they could try that to start with for sure.

This episode is sponsored by Fabletics, my current source for all my gym wear. In the last six months, I’ve discovered several new types of workouts that I’m loving. From group classes focused on flexibility, to high intensity work, to underwater weight and breath training, I’ve been loving trying new things and Fabletics has activewear for all of this. And I wear one of their pieces pretty much every day. Their mission is to make affordable high quality workout wear available to all of us. I love being a VIP member, which unlocks special benefits. Here’s how it works… when you go to fabletics.com/wellnessmama and take a 60-second quiz, it matches you with a showroom of styles designed for your body type and workout type. Before I forget, Fabletics is offering my listeners an incredible deal you don’t want to miss: Get 2 leggings for only $24 ($99 value) when you sign up for a VIP. Just go to fabletics.com/wellnessmama to take advantage of this deal now. Also free shipping on orders over $49. International shipping is available and there is absolutely no commitment when you purchase your first order! Here’s a tip: make sure you enter your email address to get notified about new styles and specials. I’ve found out about some amazing sales through that link. I also personally recommend the power hold leggings which are awesome for everything from lifting weights to yoga.

This podcast is brought to you by Four Sigmatic – that is my source for delicious coffees, teas and elixirs that all contain beneficial medicinal mushrooms like Lions Mane, Chaga, Cordyceps, Reishi and others. These mushrooms have a long history of use and a lot of studies to back up their many benefits. I personally fell in love with all of their mushroom coffees and elixirs! I add their elixirs to my smoothies and when I drink coffee, it’s always their mushroom coffee these days. The great part is they have caffeine-free options and coffee-based options with a little bit of caffeine so there’s literally a blend for any time of day. But the bonus is that there’s slightly less caffeine in their coffees than normal coffees, but with the addition of the medicinal mushrooms you get more of a brain boost without the jitters. I personally enjoy the mushroom coffee blends in the morning and I often sip relaxing (and sleep promoting) reishi in the evening before bed. You can check out all of their products and grab a 15% discount at foursigmatic.com/wellnessmama with the code wellnessmama.

Katie: So I knew this was gonna fly by so quick because you’re so fun to talk to. But I can’t believe we’re getting near the end already. And there’s a couple questions I really wanna hear your answers to. The first being if there is a book or number of books that have really changed your life or your mindset in some way? If so, what they are and why?

Joel: Yeah, so the book that I always tell people about is called “A Million Miles in a Thousand Years” by an author called Donald Miller. And this…I’ve read this a couple times over the years, but this is one of the ones I read when I was living in my parent’s basement. And the author basically talks about looking at your life like a story. And he asked the question, you, “If your life was a story, or if your life was a book, would anybody want to read it?” And what I realized in my parent’s basement was that if my life was a story, at that point, it was a story about a guy sitting on his couch watching a bunch of other people like live interesting stories. And so I was like, “Oh, I need to change something.”

And so that was probably the most impactful book just from a perspective shift. Because then anytime I come up to like a big obstacle or something that’s hard or difficult, you know, like, it’s not something…it’s not all of a sudden something that’s hard or difficult. It’s just like a challenge in the storyline. And, you know, if you ever go watch a movie, and there’s no big obstacle in the movie, it’s a pretty boring movie. Like if there’s no challenge the protagonist has to overcome, there’s no reason for you to be at that movie.

And so that book’s been super impactful. And it lets you kind of step outside your first-person narrative and look at yourself as like, in third person, and be like, “Okay, what would I want a generic character to do in this situation?” And then you’re able to kind of like transport yourself into that character and be, like, “Okay, let’s play first-person now and, like, let’s go do the hard thing because that’s what a good character does.” And so that “A Million Miles in a Thousand Years” really recommend it, it’s probably one of my favorites. And it’s super helpful if you’re looking kind of for a perspective shift.

Katie: I love that. And that’s a new recommendation on this podcast. I’ll make sure that link gets in the show notes.

Joel: Thank you.

Katie: Any like parting advice, words of wisdom that you leave with the listeners today?

Joel: I think, you know, this kind of what we’ve just been talking about the last couple, you know, last 40 minutes, or so. But I think people really undervalue the importance of hard physical challenges. And the more I think about and the more I do it, the more I keep coming back to that. And it’s so easy to be comfortable. And it’s so easy even talk about this stuff, you know, there’s a million podcasts out there right now be like, you know, “Growth begins at the edge of your comfort zone.” And, you know, people talk about or people post on Pinterest or Instagram, and they talk about getting outside their comfort zone. But if you tell someone to jump in like an ice bath, they’ll fight you about it.

And what I found is just the…like the daily practice of finding something that’s not just uncomfortable, but it’s actually physically hard or physically difficult. But also, you know, if you can, physically difficult but meaningful, and that can be meaningful to you in whatever way that means. But I find those experiences that I’ve taken on that have been very, very difficult where I’ve wanted to quit multiple times, and I somehow dug deep enough to push through. Those are probably the biggest…the most transformative experiences I’ve had.

And I think we have a pretty big lack of them, like just in modern society. And so, you know, if there’s like a specific challenge, I would say, you know, if people don’t have an ice bath, or something like that, I always tell people to take five minutes of cold showers. If they wanna practice doing something that gets them uncomfortable, you’re already taking a cold shower, you’re already, you know, turning the dial one direction, all you have to do is turn it the other direction, and do it for five minutes. And it might be hard, it might be difficult, and you might, you know, not like this guy on the podcast that you’re listening to. But when you’re done, you realize, it was hard, it was difficult, but it was just five minutes. And you can do anything for five minutes. And then you also realize, you’re able to do other things that you think might be hard might be difficult, but you’re able to do it. So that’s my parting advice.

Katie: I love that. And it’s like that’s a perfect place to end, I’ll make sure that we link to everything you mentioned, the 777 Project, and Impossible, and MoveWell, and all the places people can find you. But if people just want to stay in touch with you online or follow your journey and your marathons, where’s the best place to find you?

Joel: Yeah, impossiblehq.com is the main site for Impossible. And then you can find me on Twitter, and Instagram @joelrunyon. And those are the best spots.

Katie: Awesome. I will make sure all of those are linked. Joel, thanks for taking the time. This was so much fun.

Joel: Thanks for having me.

Katie: And thanks to all of you for listening and sharing your most valuable asset of your time with us today. We’re so glad you did. And I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of “The Wellness Mama Podcast.”

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.

Thanks to Our Sponsors

This episode is sponsored by Fabletics, my current source for all my gym wear. In the last six months, I’ve discovered several new types of workouts that I’m loving. From group classes focused on flexibility, to high-intensity work, to underwater weight and breath training, I’ve been loving trying new things and Fabletics has activewear for all of this. And I wear one of their pieces pretty much every day. Their mission is to make affordable high-quality workout wear available to all of us, and I love being a VIP member, which unlocks special benefits. Here’s how it works… when you go to fabletics.com/wellnessmama and take a 60-second quiz, it matches you with a showroom of styles designed for your body type and workout type. Before I forget, Fabletics is offering my listeners an incredible deal you don’t want to miss: Get 2 leggings for only $24 ($99 value) when you sign up for a VIP. Just go to fabletics.com/wellnessmama to take advantage of this deal now. Also free shipping on orders over $49. International shipping is available and there is absolutely no commitment when you purchase your first order! Here’s a tip: make sure you enter your email address to get notified about new styles and special. I’ve found out about some amazing sales through that link. I also personally recommend the power hold leggings which are awesome for everything from lifting weights to yoga.

This podcast is brought to you by Four Sigmatic – that is my source for delicious coffees, teas, and elixirs that all contain beneficial medicinal mushrooms like lion’s mane, chaga, cordyceps, reishi, and others. These mushrooms have a long history of use and a lot of studies to back up their many benefits. I personally fell in love with all of their mushroom coffees and elixirs. The great part is they have caffeine-free options and coffee-based options with a little bit of caffeine so there’s literally a blend for any time of day. But the bonus is that there’s slightly less caffeine in their coffees than normal coffees, but with the addition of the medicinal mushrooms you get more of a brain boost without the jitters. I personally enjoy the mushroom coffee blends in the morning and I often sip relaxing (and sleep-promoting) reishi in the evening before bed. You can check out all of their products and grab a 15% discount at foursigmatic.com/wellnessmama with the code WELLNESSMAMA.

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clean no 00:47:29 Katie Wells
280: Using Adaptogens & Herbal Supplements to Manage Stress (Even for Kids) With Gaia Herbshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/gaia-herbs/ Mon, 05 Aug 2019 11:00:36 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=417360

I am here with Dr. Mary Bove, and you guys are going to love her! She’s a naturopathic doctor and midwife with advanced training in phytotherapy and herbal medicine. She practiced naturopathic family medicine and midwifery for 25 years and even authored one of the go-to references on the subject, The Encyclopedia of Natural Healing for Children and Infants. In collaboration with Gaia Herbs, she developed an herbal remedy line specifically for children called Gaia Kids. We’re going to talk about how to know which adaptogens and herbs are safe for kids, as well as get some clarity on what naturopathic medicine really is.

Episode Highlights With Gaia Herbs

  • What an adaptogen actually is and does in the body
  • The best tools to combat modern-day stress and toxicity
  • Benefits of ashwagandha for nerves, sleep, learning challenges, and more
  • Another herb to add for deeper, more restful sleep
  • How holy basil or tulsi can help you stay centered during busy or hectic times
  • Herbs that help bring the thyroid back into balance
  • Medicinal mushrooms (and I take cordyceps daily)
  • The natural antidepressant herb that you may never have thought to try
  • Why rhodiola is one of Dr. Bove’s favorite herbals
  • One of the best herbs for liver balancing and detoxification
  • Easy home remedies to help kids with growing pains
  • How to know which herbs to use in combination (and which are safe for kids)
  • And more!

Resources We Mention

Read Transcript

Katie: Hello and welcome to the “Wellness Mama Podcast.” I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com. And today, we are going to talk all about adaptogens, and I can’t wait to dive in because I am here with Dr. Mary Bove, who I hope I’m pronouncing her name correctly. She’s a naturopathic doctor and midwife with advanced training in phytotherapy and herbal medicine. She practiced naturopathic family medicine and midwifery for 25 years and taught at Bastyr University. She’s the author of “The Encyclopedia of Natural Healing for Children and Infants,” which is considered an authoritative reference on natural pediatric medicine and a wealth of knowledge. She also co-authored “Herbs for Women’s Health,” and she lectures and teaches internationally. In collaboration with Gaia Herbs, she developed an herbal remedy line specifically for children called Gaia Kids. And we’re going to delve into a lot of that today. But, Dr. Mary, welcome, and thanks for being here.

Dr. Mary: Well, thank you. It’s wonderful to be here.

Katie: And I can’t wait to go deep on this with you because I feel like adaptogens are a super popular thing right now. And I hear a lot about them, I see other people talking about them on blogs, on social media, and I know that you have been an expert in these for a very long time. For anyone who’s not familiar, can you start us really high level and just define what is an adaptogen?

Dr. Mary: Yes, I’d love to. And I think that’s a great question because it’s kind of unique in the sense that adaptogens and the term actually came more in the modern-day herbalism. So it’s not something we would say would look back 100 years ago and we would have used that term. The term adaptogen was actually coined in the late 1960s. And really what it is, it’s a plant that impacts our body through our stress maintaining systems. And so what that means is that they actually help to protect against stress and to enable and enhance our ingrained systems that we have for stress. And given the fact that the stress response has multiple stages, it’s important that it’s healthy and it does all of the parts of what it needs. And adaptogens impact that directly. And one of the parts of the stress response is the adrenal glands. They also impact adrenal health, and the endocrine system, and how it communicates with the brain and the higher centers of the brain, the hypothalamus, and the pituitary.

And when they looked at coining that term, they looked at several criteria that the plant had to show and then it could be added into the category adaptogen. And so, we’ve been learning a tremendous amount about these plants because they are very popular, as you say. First of all, adaptogens can’t be toxic or have harmful side effects. Second of all, they work to bring balance. So somebody who has a hyperthyroid and a hypo, a low functioning one and a high functioning one, could use an adaptogen to balance it back to the center, which is an odd concept for a lot of people who work within medicine because it’s not a concept we see in traditional, you know, mainstream medicine.

But it’s the concept of the plant working within the system to bring that homeostasis, or that balance and that they are stress-protective, that they particularly work through that system. And, you know, just that alone, I think, as you said, it’s very popular, this term, and the using of these plants right now. And then part of that is because we’re in a stressful time in, you know, our lives, in our communities, in the world, and I think stress comes in so many forms that many times we don’t realize how many ways we interface with it on a day to day basis, and that wears our healthy response down. So using adaptogens can keep us, you know, up on our toes and being able to deal with the challenges that come day to day.

Katie: Yeah. I think that’s such an important point about stress because, of course, that’s, like you said, something that’s also very much in the news. And I think most people are pretty aware that we’re operating on often higher levels of stress than previous generations. But something I’ve talked about as well is even if you don’t feel mentally stressed, there’s a good chance that your body might still feel stressed in some way because we are exposed to a lot of things we weren’t exposed to even just a few generations ago. So we’re getting less sleep than we should, and we’re exposed to kind of artificial lighting all the time, and we’re exposed to all kinds of different chemicals in our environment. And all of those things the body can perceive as stress, even if we don’t feel stressed. And so I think that’s why things like this really come into play to help find balance. We’re not just talking about, like, if you mentally feel overwhelmed or stressed. I think there’s, like, layers of the onion when it comes to talking about stress. Do you feel like that too?

Dr. Mary: Yes. I do. And I think that’s really well put. And I think, you know, as you said, many people don’t realize how many layers there are or how full their stress basket is. And some of those things are kind of wound up with modern-day living, which is, you know, I would certainly say one of the things that wears on us in that sense. And then there’s mental stress, like, you know, in the sense of worry or, you know, the challenges that come with working with one’s mind, which we do a lot more given the computer age.

Katie: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So that I think was a perfect, broad overview of what adaptogens are. And like I said, I know I see these in the news all the time. But walk us through what some of the most popular adaptogens are, just as examples of what kind of plants qualify?

Dr. Mary: Oh, absolutely. Well, I think, you know, if we look at like what’s popular in the current news and out there in wellness world, we would certainly have to say ashwagandha. Ashwagandha is an Ayurvedic Indian herb that belongs to the same family as tomatoes. And it is used as an adaptogen. When the original work was done on adaptogens, the Russians did a lot of that work in the ’60s and ’70s, and they actually looked at combinations of things like eleutherococcus, rhodiola, and schisandra. And so as we look at the pool of adaptogens we have, we have a lot of information on the ashwagandha, and on the rhodiola, and the schisandra, and eleutherococcus.

And we also have other adaptogens that we’ve been able to learn about such as holy basil. And what I think people are drawn to, are drawn to the fact that adaptogens are safe, that they can, you know, work currently right, you know, in your life as is, and they can help protect you because we know that stress gets under our skin. And we know that in, you know, our knowledge of modern-day effects of stress in our physiology, we know it contributes to many health challenges and diseases. And if we can do something day to day when we know we have a stressful work week or we overuse our body as an athlete, we may well want to do something that can just help us go a little longer, have a little bit better energy and not wear and tear our body so much.

Katie: Yeah, exactly. So can you walk us through some of the specifics? Like, we’ll start with ashwagandha because I think you’re right, that one is everywhere right now. What is it specifically, where does it come from, and what are some of its main benefits?

Dr. Mary: Ah, very nice. Yes, well, the root is used of the plant. As I said, it is an Ayurvedic herb that we, you know, learn a lot of information and tradition about its use through the Ayurvedic. And, you know, we see that through the work coming out of India. We also know that traditionally, it’s a plant that would be used as a nerve tonic as well. So it’s very soothing and calming to the nerves, and it’s botanical name, withania somnifera, somnifera meaning sleep. It was called the sleep maker. And it’s often a plant that’s helpful to wind our mind down and prepare our body for moving into the sleep cycle. So, you know, many times we’ll use an adaptogen at night to support the night cycle and withania is, or ashwagandha is a perfect term for that because it really helps us to restore, and revitalize, and get kind of the day’s agitation out of our nervous system as we’re sleeping and helping us to sleep better.

Then there would be a couple of other things I’d say about ashwagandha. And if we look at some of the modern science of ashwagandha, we know it to be a strong neuroprotector, we also know…and we can see it’s used in the pediatric population, so with kids. They have looked at using ashwagandha with children who are slow to grow, unable to get good weight gain and with different challenges for both behavior and learning.

Katie: When during the day should ashwagandha be taken? Since it’s better for sleep, is it better taken in the evening, or can it be taken through the day, like, different times of day and still have that same effect?

Dr. Mary: Yes, good question. It can be taken throughout the day. One of the nice things about it is that it isn’t acting like a sedative. So if you took it in the day, it’s not going to make you sleepy. What it does is that it will help to support their adrenal system and act with stamina, and energy, and focus. And so it can really help with what you’re doing in the day and give you that stress protecting activity. If you’re using it in the evening time, it will work more in a restorative way, calming down, and improving the sleep cycle itself. And so by doing that, as I said, it’s not necessarily going to act more like a herb that puts you to sleep, like let’s say valerian is used as a sleep herb. It’s not that same aspect. What it does is it turns down a deeper level of agitation. And it actually supports the day-night cycle that we tend to mimic in our endocrine system. And so it supports the hormones that would be quieting from an active day, and it supports the hormones that help us with sleep such as melatonin.

Katie: That makes sense. And I’m not sure if there’s any data on this, but I’m curious if it also helps with deep sleep because that’s something I’ve been tracking through a device called the Oura Ring for quite a while. And my deep sleep has gotten really solid actually, like a couple hours a night, but my husband still struggles with getting enough deep sleep. Do you know offhand if ashwagandha can help over time with balancing the sleep cycles and getting enough deep sleep?

Dr. Mary: Yes. That’s a great question. And it’s so interesting as you track it like you said, and yes, ashwagandha can improve that. And one of the things that I found was that using ashwagandha in combination with magnolia bark, and magnolia bark really helps as an adaptogen as well and helps with supporting that night cycle and the cycle of sleep moving into both REM and non-REM sleep. So putting the two together and using those in the evening would be an excellent way to support that for your husband.

Katie: That makes sense. And anytime we’re talking about any herb or supplement, I know that I’m going to get the questions from the audience. I’m just going to go ahead and ask you as we go. Are there any contraindications for ashwagandha? Anyone who cannot take it? You are a midwife, so what about pregnancy and nursing?

Dr. Mary: Oh, boy, that’s a lot of big questions. Generally, ashwagandha is very safe, and there’s not like straightforward contraindications like with some herbs in the sense that generally, it’s tolerable. When we come to the population of being pregnant or lactating, I would certainly say that, overall, we try not to use a lot of herbs within the first trimester and overall in pregnancy if not needed. If someone needed to use an adaptogen, would ashwagandha be a safe adaptogen to use? I would certainly say we don’t have a lot of good data on that. But within tradition, we do see that. We do also see there are other herbs that fall in the adaptogen category that are also lactation-friendly and pregnancy-friendly, and that would be something like holy basil.

Katie: Got it. Well, while we’re on that topic, what is holy basil? I believe is that the same as tulsi? Is it also called tulsi?

Dr. Mary: Yes. Yes, it is called tulsi. And there’s three types of tulsi or holy basil, all of them within…their traditional use may vary, but we often find the Krishna variety out on the market that we’re using in a lot of the products that we see. And it’s an adaptogen plant that’s a member of the mint family. So it’s very aromatic, and it’s known as the goddess and it is a plant that’s used traditionally in Ayurveda all the way from protecting the house, and being a woman’s herb, to helping with sleep, and nervousness, and calming. And one of the things that we often say about holy basil is when everything is going a miss around you, and things are just swirling, and hectic, holy basil can keep you grounded and keep you able to kind of see through all that, your way out and get, you know, a handle on what’s going. So I like holy basil very much for people who feel like they’ve kind of lost motivation in their life, or they can’t feel like a lot of joy, or they may not feel inspired, or motivated.

And there is some data on that where they looked at people who were more depressive, lacked motivation, lacked inspiration. And over their time of using the holy basil, they noticed that these types of feelings inside themselves actually changed and that they were more positive and more apt to get up and do something. And I think that really says something because when people are depressed, a lot of times, it’s really hard to do nice things for yourself. And if holy basil can help give you a nudge and support that, then they’ve kind of get a friend and getting yourself to a more positive place.

Katie: Yeah. I think that’s a great tip. And it reminded me, to circle back to something you said towards the beginning. You mentioned that there are herbs that can be used to help support the thyroid, to bring it back into balance. And I think there’s a significant segment of the listening audience that has a thyroid struggle in some way. And personally, I’m in remission, but I have Hashimoto’s. So I would love to hear what are some things we can do to support the thyroid using herbs especially since with your background in midwifery, as you know, women often see those things more so after pregnancy, that can often be a trigger for thyroid issues. So, knowing that, especially as women and all of our hormone fluctuations, how can we make sure that we’re being kind to our thyroid?

Dr. Mary: Nice question, Katie, because of the part that we didn’t talk about with ashwagandha, ashwagandha is actually an adaptogen that has a very strong influence on the thyroid gland and that influences thyroid hormone production, and the ability for it to be able to function, you know, as in supporting that gland within that function. So ashwagandha is, you know, one of the main adaptogens for somebody who has thyroid challenges that I would certainly say yeah, consider taking ashwagandha to help support that.

The other thing about supporting the thyroid is that you look to make sure that you’ve got the things that it needs. And so supporting thyroid means that you might be using things like kelp or other seaweeds that help to give iodine, which is one of the precursors that’s needed for making thyroid hormone. And that would be for, you know, a low-functioning thyroid. At the same time, you mentioned how pregnancy can sometimes kind of have that show up either pre or post. There are many women who deal with a hyperthyroid in their postpartum time. And there are herbs like lemon balm and mother wart that can be very helpful for managing the hyperthyroid. And again, with that, you can find something like ashwagandha will help to balance thyroid so truly as an adaptogen, it should be applicable to be able to use in both aspects. But, certainly, like when you mentioned Hashimoto’s and remission, certainly one of my go-to’s when I would work with Hashimoto’s clients would have been ashwagandha.

Katie: Got it. Okay. Yeah. That’s really helpful. And I wanted to go through a little more detail on a few other adaptogens out of curiosity, and then talk about a little later on how they can work together, but you mentioned several at the beginning. Another one I’d love to talk about is cordyceps. I’m a huge fan of medicinal mushrooms, and that one is a mushroom. So can you explain how that is beneficial, and if there’s any differences since it does come from a mushroom?

Dr. Mary: Yeah. So cordyceps is, you know, as you said, a medicinal mushroom. And it provides particular kinds of compounds that are very useful in building the immune response, and building one’s stamina and energy. And so as an adaptogen, we really think about cordyceps for people who really have lost their energy, lost their stamina, who tend to be, you know, immune-challenged because those are some of the places that cordyceps can really thrive. So it can help like, you know, in one’s day to day energy, as well as it can help with improving the overall ability to build one’s stamina over time. So somebody who’s, like, an athlete, goes out and runs a marathon and really puts everything into it, after they finished that, there’s a lot of responses that happen in their muscles. And sometimes that can, you know, be pain, and it can be work against the muscle health in the long run.

Something like cordyceps can help to mediate that and improve oxygen in the muscle while it’s working, improve the way it makes energy, and it can also improve how it clears out the debris afterward in not having a lot of muscle breakdown and stress and oxidation from that. And as a medicinal fungi, you know, as I said, we know it as an antioxidant. But certainly, that immune-modulating piece is important because a lot of times with stress, the immune system responds in a hyper response that’s not necessarily very good in the long run. And the effects of the mushroom to be able to modulate that really helps us to keep away from over challenging our immune system.

Katie: Very cool. Yeah. I’m a huge fan of medicinal mushrooms and cordyceps. It’s such a…I feel like a beneficial form, and it’s something I put often into drinks or just sip throughout the day in a tea. What about rhodiola? That’s another one that’s been getting some buzz lately. Walk us through what rhodiola does?

Dr. Mary: Yeah. Now, that’s mine. It has to be one of my favorite adaptogens. I really find rhodiola to be a plant that is very diverse. It impacts our mood through many of the neurotransmitter aspects, GABA, dopamine, and it can improve, you know, depressed moods as well as helping to dampen down anxiety. It helps to modulate that HPA access in the brain-endocrine-adrenal system. So we know that hypothalamus, pituitary is always talking to the adrenal gland, and so it helps to keep that communication up and going. It also helps to improve oxygen uptake, particularly by the muscle tissue. So it helps with our stamina and our output to be able to make energy and move through the day. You know, right now, it’s being looked at for some of its effects as a nootropic, helping us to improve the way we focus, and our memory, and concentration. So our brain function is being impacted by that rhodiola.

And then if we look at it in a traditional form, it’s a high iron root. So it’s traditionally been used for anemia or low iron in someone’s blood. It’s also been used as a spring tonic, It grows in Siberia, and so there, there’s a lot of change between cold, cold winters, and that’s a very stressful thing on our body. And coming out of that, rhodiola was traditionally taken to help us transition from that cold time of the season into spring, and blooming, and more energy, and the warmth. And then lastly, it was also used as a fertility tonic. And in my work as a midwife, I used rhodiola often with my fertility work. So particularly women who are trying to get pregnant or unable to get pregnant, maybe later age of life, who showed up with having adrenal challenges, either adrenal exhaustion or stress challenges. And when that’s occurring, that can really take away from the hormones that make us really fertile. So rhodiola was one of the go-to plants for me to help to get that system balance so that good ovulation could take place. And that’s one plant that I would also say that I tend to use more in the morning. So rhodiola, I often give morning and noon. Though it does improve sleep, but often it does that by improving the 24-hour day-night cycle so you have more normalcy in that, not necessarily making you feel sedated or sleepy in that sense.

Katie: Gotcha. Okay, so rhodiola in the morning. What about schisandra, if I’m saying that correctly? That one is, like, I feel like the new one to the scene, obviously not from an herbal perspective, but from an online perspective right now that’s getting a lot of buzz. And I’ve seen it mentioned, even for men, for things like improving testosterone. I don’t know if I’m remembering that correctly, but schisandra is a berry, am I remembering that correctly?

Dr. Mary: Yes. Yes, you are. And it’s a herb that we would have talked about in traditional Chinese medicine. So we gander a lot of wealth about this plant through the Chinese traditional herbal sense, and in that it is a very strong tonic. And it does help to support stamina and the aspects of energy and energy production. One of the things if you ever see the berry, it’s a bright red berry. So it has a lot of phenols in it. And these phenols, they give the color, and they’re very supportive to our body’s immune system, and they help to manage oxidation. And one of the things about schisandra as an adaptogen, it has a very strong balancing effect within liver function. So the detoxification phases that go on within liver function, helping to support both of those processes through the liver and the enzymes that are needed there, and at the same time, helping to support the adrenal endocrine system.

It’s also been looked at for its effects, particularly in depression. And there’s been studies with its use with anti-depression medication at the same time to look at safety and adequate dose. And they found that they could lower amounts of the antidepressant medications when using schisandra as that enhance the effects of the medication. I think sometimes we think that a plant will only have negative effects, but there actually is quite a bit of data that shows that there are plants that actually can enhance the way a medication is working and help the medication dose to be less overall. So schisandra is one of those that I’ve seen looked at particularly as I said for mood disorders.

I was gonna say one other thing about schisandra. And that is that in a more traditional way, we think of it as a plant that has the five tastes. So it does actually affect us and some of the aspects of the way that taste, like sour, or bitter, or sweet might occur for us. And I think that’s an interesting thing because then we know that schisandra is impacting, you know, our digestive health and as I said our liver health and helping with, you know, overall, what we would say kind of vital energy.

Katie: Very cool. I had seen it referred to as the five taste herb, and I wondered what that meant. That’s really cool.

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Katie: So you talked a little bit about mood disorders. And I hear from a lot of people who have maybe not clinically diagnosed, but somewhere on the spectrum of anxiety or depression, it seems like those are both things that are on the rise. And I know they’re both things that adaptogens can potentially be really beneficial for. Is there a good starting point if someone is struggling with either of those things, of just adaptogens to begin experimenting with?

Dr. Mary: Yeah. A couple of things that I would say, is that you can take adaptogens singly and you can take adaptogens in combination. And many times, combinations will enhance and have synergistic interactions between the plants and may actually be a little more potent in some ways. But if someone’s just starting off and they’re wondering, you know, “What I might want to use?” Or maybe they’re a little nervous or cautious, then they could start with just one, like a single capsule of ashwagandha so that they weren’t having too many herbs in the picture if they were a little uncomfortable with that. Typically for stress, like anxiety and/or depression, like mood issues, irritability, adaptogens partner up very well with what we call nervines. And nervines in the herbal world are plants that affect the nervous system to bring relaxation, diminish irritation in the nerves and calm the spirit and the brain. And a good plant to think about when you have anxiety or depression would be lemon balm. It’s a very uplifting plant. And it would be a very nice plant to combine with ashwagandha for somebody who had anxiety, or depression, and/or, you know, a sleep issue who had anxiety with it. And so they could use that combination per se.

Also, one of the things that I would think about here would be the use of holy basil, the tulsi, because holy basil kind of does both of those things in some ways because as I said, it’s a part of the mint family and that family often can have calming effects in the brain and in the spirit, as we would say. And holy basil has, you know, multiple different ways that it impacts with our mood. And so I would certainly say that a plant stands out, and I use it often when there’s either anxiety and/or depression. And with holy basil and lemon balm actually put together, lemon balm is very uplifting. It’s kind of nicknamed the happy herb. And so it really helps to, you know, kind of lift the mood. And it’s something that will do that in a relatively short period of time. So if you take a tea of it or tea of holy basil and lemon balm put together, or an extract, you typically will feel that effect within an hour so that you’ll feel a little uplifted, or relaxed, or a little bit, you know, more positive in your outlook. So that’s kind of nice because some of the other adaptogens like rhodiola, which affects the mood, takes a little bit longer to work. And so it’ll take a couple of weeks for someone to feel the effects of the rhodiola, where you may actually feel the effects of the lemon balm, holy basil at, you know, a more kind of rapid time, you know, not having to wait a couple of weeks.

Katie: Very cool. Yeah. I love that idea of them in combination and stacking them for that reason. Another thing I get a ton of questions about, and I’m guessing you probably also did in family practice for naturopathic medicine is relating to kids and sleep. And in kids and supplements in general, like what can we give, what can we not give? And I know you are uniquely qualified because you actually developed a line that was safe for kids. But can you give us any tips for when your kids won’t fall asleep, when your kids don’t stay asleep, when they wake up with growing pains, are there ways we can support them through those things naturally?

Dr. Mary: Yes, there are. I’ll start with the growing pains because that’s, you know, pretty straightforward. A lot of times I find the kids have growing pains, you can use something like catnip or California poppy extract, typically about 10 to 30 drops per dose, 10 for like a 5-year-old and 30 for 12-year-olds, who might have something like that at the time they’re having discomfort. But what I also find is that they start taking magnesium, higher amounts of magnesium, so two parts magnesium to one part calcium, rather than having higher amounts of calcium. They often can get the growing pains to actually cease. So that’s just, you know, an easy one.

When we look at sleep, like either falling asleep or staying asleep, some of the things that we have to think about is what creates the disruption. So falling asleep has to do with kind of winding down. And traditionally in herbal medicine, they would use chamomile, and lemon balm, catnip, and oats, avena sativa as a tea or an extract and given typically, you know, after dinner and before bed. A lot of times, they would combine that with things like lavender bath or hops bath. And we know that herbs like hops, and lavender, and chamomilla will all help to relax the mind, relax the body. So that, you know, are some practices that one could do a herbal bath. they could make some tea and have tea. If they’re worried about taking too much fluid before bed, then I would suggest using it in extract form. And, that way, you can either just put it in a little bit of fluid, or you can actually put the extract and mix it in with a little applesauce, and they can take it that way, which makes it a little bit easier.

For staying asleep, the first thing that comes to mind is that many of the herbs that we just talked about could be given, and over a period of time that will help with staying asleep. But some children wake in the night because they actually need calories. And so, if it’s a child that’s doing that, they actually need to have a snack, or giving a bedtime snack can actually help those children not have the need to wake up to get calories in the middle of the night. So I always ask whether, you know, how long it’s been since they’ve eaten, before that they’ve gone to sleep, and try to figure out whether or not food is part of that wake-up issue.

Katie: That’s another great point. Is there any reason not to let kids eat during the middle of the night? Is that normal because I know with, you know, for instance, breastfeeding, I always heard that after a certain point, kids were able to sleep through the night without needing to nurse and wake up. As kids go through growth spurts, is that actually more common that they do need to wake up and consume calories?

Dr. Mary: Yeah. And a lot of times, as you said, in growth spurts, many times what I would tell moms is to just like have…you can use fluid as that calories. So whether that’s, you know, milk, or milk alternative, you can, you know, get up and they can have four ounces of, you know, an almond milk and find that that’s plenty for them to, you know, go back to sleep with. So it doesn’t necessarily mean you have to get up and cook a meal or give them a lot of food.

Katie: Gotcha. Okay. So we’re not talking it has to be a meal, it’s, just something sometimes to get them to calm back down and go back to sleep and let their body have the fuel for the sleep process because I know I’ve read quite a bit about how there’s so much that goes on during sleep. And for kids, I would guess obviously, like, that’s, even more, the case when they’re growing. So it makes sense that they might just have a higher need at certain points.

Dr. Mary: Yeah. And that point about kids growing, you know, during those growth spurts, and a lot of that does happen at night during sleep. So that’s a great point you make.

Katie: And you’ve mentioned several different herbs and combinations. I want to make sure, before we go any further, that we mention that I was also able to get a discount from you guys at Gaia Herbs, and you have a lot of these formulas there. So can you tell us about the discount, but also tell us some of the children’s formula that you guys carry?

Dr. Mary: Oh, yeah. And also, I should just, you know, that not only the children’s formulas, but the adaptogen formulas, you know, things that we’ve been talking about, like, you know, adrenal health is one of the adaptogen formulas, and that’s a day-to-day, you know, really helps to maintain and give stress-protective. And that’s a combination of four adaptogens along with a nervine because it makes sense to put that nerve tonic and nerve support in with the adaptogens. So oats is the nervine, and there’s rhodiola, schisandra, holy basil, ashwagandha in that product. So really nice, general, broad-spectrum support. And then in that same line, there’s adrenal nighttime, which takes the adaptogens that help to focus on the night cycle and sleep and sleep architects. So when you talked about the different levels of sleep, being able to fall asleep, relax your body, those adaptogens help with restoring, and that can be taken at night. So if someone really notices that their stress is interrupting their night cycles, they can use a product like that.

For those people who feel like they’re really burned out, that they don’t get going in the day, they can’t get up and going, they might use a product called Jumpstart, which is designed to kind of really pick up an exhausted kind of system and get it perked up and going again, so that it can start to revitalize itself. And that’s a daytime formula because in the day, our physiology is different. And so we want a different product for that. And so those two products one can be taken in the day and one can be taken at night, they can be taken together, or alone based on that, which is really nice, because that’s, you know, one of the ways that you restore someone who’s really been kind of exhausted and depleted from stress is to try to mimic the day-night cycle, which mimics our circadian cycle, which is reflected through all our tissues in our body. So it helps us to all kind of get on the same page of getting well.

Then you asked about the children’s products, which are liquid products and they’re products that are designed specifically for children. So that would mean that we have herbs that are safe within that population, that the herbs also typically are specific for the kinds of challenges and health that kids would have. And we try to make sure that the herbs are what we would say, flavorful or you know, pleasant in taste like fennel seed, or chamomile, or lemon balm, all pleasant tasting plants.

And those products are designed, there’s a Kid’s Defense, which looks at the using herbs to support the immune system during immune challenges such as cold and flu, or stomach flu, that type of thing. There’s also an Echinacea Supreme where we use the echinacea species that is specific for helping with the acute response and getting over of colds and flus that’s designed for kids.

And one of the nice things about this line and the ability of Gaia was that Gaia has very sophisticated manufacturing techniques. We were able to extract the plants in very specific ways so that we could really hone in on high amounts of phytonutrients, and then they’re able to extract the alcohol off of that extract and put glycerin in there, which is sweet, which is much more palatable for children. And then we deliver a product that’s alcohol-free and more designed for a child’s taste. And there is a sleep formula there, Calm Restore, which is a combination of sleep herbs that are traditionally used for supporting sleep in children. And some of those herbs like lemon balm and passionflower have been looked at in science for safety and dose-related use with children in that population. So that’s wonderful.

And there’s another product called Attention Daily, and that’s a product that was focused in on focus and concentration, that’s kind of…but it’s a product that we put together for brain focus for children. And that, in my practice, I have so many stories about teachers, and moms, and principals of schools who call the practice to talk to me about how well children did when they were put on these products and how noticeable it was in the classroom for many of these kids, which really make my heart very joyful that I was helping and that we could help children, you know, improve their learning environment and skills.

Katie: For sure. Yeah. I think as a homeschooling mom and just a mom in general, that’s something we all obviously want. And it’s always great when you can find those things that really work for your kids. Also, for anybody listening, of course, as always, all of these links will be in the show notes, everything that you have mentioned. But that link, if you want to go to right now is gaiaherbs.com/wellnessmama. And Dr. Mary has offered 20% off featured adaptogens. So make sure to use the code wellnessmama, all one word. If you do go check it out. And as we get toward the end, there’s a few questions I love to ask, and I can’t wait to hear your answers for.

The first being, if there are a few things about your area of expertise that are often misunderstood or that people really just don’t know, and if so what they are?

Dr. Mary: Yes. There are a few things. I’d say the first thing is that I don’t think that people realize how much science and data has been collected on medicinal plants, safety, use, and validating many of the traditions, and that all over the world, there are many countries that have been collecting data on this. And that it is well-documented and there’s much evidence that gives us basis for the traditional use and new uses. And I think secondly, as people get used to thinking about using plants is that it’s not the same as using a pharmaceutical drug. And so you have to approach it with an open mind, and it needs to be approached in the sense that it might take time, which is different from many pharmaceutical drugs.

Katie: Yeah. Such an important distinction. Although I will say on that note, like, I feel like it’s easy a little bit to fall into the trap sometimes even in the natural health world of trying to just treat a symptom with an herb instead of treating a symptom with a medicine. And I love that about the naturopathic approach. And in midwifery, when it comes to pregnancy, in general, is that it’s more of a whole-body supportive approach versus let’s tackle the symptoms approach. And I think, at least in my own life, that’s where herbs really seem to shine is when you are able to try to support and address the body as a whole rather than just like, “Oh, let’s go tackle this particular one symptom,” because there’s usually something else going on. You know, things very rarely happen in isolation in the body. And so I think these plants, like you’ve mentioned, they give us the ability to support the body very holistically.

Dr. Mary: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I kind of think of symptoms as like the voice of the body shouting out to get our attention. And then that draws us into why is that shout happening? And I think herbs do. They really do help to support that basic, you know, foundation of physiological health.

Katie: Gotcha. Another question I’d love to ask is if there’s a book or a number of books that have changed your life, and if so what they are and why?

Dr. Mary: Yes. There is a book that changed…it makes me emotional even. It changed my life hugely. So, when I went to college, I was 18, and I was studying psychology. And, in my first three months of college, I went from psychology, to sociology, to behavioral modification. I kept changing my major. And so that was pretty much a sign that things weren’t right for me in college. And I found this book called “Common Herbs for Natural Health,” and it’s by Juliette de Bairacli Levy, and she’s a little gypsy from Europe. And she wrote this book, and it opened up a world that I didn’t know existed. And it opened up the possibility that I could be an herbalist. And it put me on a path that took me to go and study with indigenous people. It made me open a store, which then gave me the opportunity to meet medicinal herbalists from England, and I went to England and studied for four years and became a member of the National Institute of Medical Herbalists, and that led me to naturopathic school and midwifery. I don’t know, I thought I was going to be an archaeologist. So things changed greatly from this book, and it’s still working one of my very favorite books to immerse myself in or to reference when I’m looking for a plant or studying a plant.

Katie: That’s a new recommendation on here. Make sure that’s in the show notes, as well, if any of you guys want to check it out, as well. Dr. Mary, any parting advice for the listeners today?

Dr. Mary: Yes. I would say get out into nature and look at, you know, the greenery. Spend five minutes every day really focusing in with a life of the plants around you, and you will benefit from just that exposure.

Katie: I love that. And I completely agree. And Dr. Mary, I know that you are very busy and you have so many things that you do, so thank you for taking the time to share your wisdom with us today.

Dr. Mary: Well, thank you, Katie, for having me. This was wonderful. And I love Wellness Mama as your title. And I just think that just emanates the possibility of wellness for every mama.

Katie: Oh, thank you. And thanks to all of you for listening and sharing one of your most valuable assets, your time with both of us. We’re so grateful that you did. And I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the “Wellness Mama Podcast.”

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This podcast is sponsored by Organifi, my source for super high quality superfood powders that are often part of my meals, especially when I travel. Green juice, their most popular drink, lets you incorporate farm fresh, gently dehydrated ingredients into your diet and lock in the extra vitamins and antioxidants. I just add to water and drink! It’s my go-to for veggies in the morning and is packed with chlorella for detox, spirulina and turmeric for detox as well as pain and inflammation, mint for improved digestion, matcha green tea for energy, and ashwagandha for cortisol and stress balance. Organifi also has a red juice with antioxidant-rich superfoods like cordyceps, reishi, and rhodiola plus an abundance of red berries. It’s sweet and fruity but low in sugar. It’s designed to fight aging, improve energy and metabolism, and sharpen cognition so I often drink it midday. And lastly, their the Organifi Gold drink is awesome at night and is filled with turmeric for skin health, ginger for achy muscles, turkey tail for immunity, and coconut milk for healthy saturated fat. Check all of these out at organifi.com/wellnessmama and use the code WELLNESS20 for 20% off.

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279: Making a Personalized Birth Plan With Dr. Elizabeth Pearcehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/elizabeth-pearce/ Mon, 29 Jul 2019 11:00:56 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=417156 clean no 00:56:43 Katie Wells 278: Pet Health and Natural Remedies With Full Bucket Healthhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/full-bucket-health/ Thu, 25 Jul 2019 11:00:01 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=414929 clean no 00:54:03 Katie Wells 277: Breast Implant Illness: What It Is & How to Heal With Diane Kazerhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/diane-kazer/ Mon, 22 Jul 2019 11:00:26 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=405066 clean no 01:04:15 Katie Wells 276: What You Need to Know About Olive Oil With Tony Kasandrinoshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/tony-kasandrinos/ Thu, 18 Jul 2019 11:00:29 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=405035 clean no 00:42:40 Katie Wells 275: Outer Order, Inner Calm and Happiness With Gretchen Rubinhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/gretchen-rubin/ Mon, 15 Jul 2019 11:00:31 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=405006 clean no 00:53:24 Katie Wells 274: Spirituality, Psychedelics & Circumcision: Taboo Topics With Luke Storeyhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/luke-storey/ Thu, 11 Jul 2019 11:00:20 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=405004 clean no 01:19:00 Katie Wells 273: The Power of Movement for Mind and Body With Aaron Alexander of The Align Podcasthttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/aaron-alexander/ Mon, 08 Jul 2019 11:00:06 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404977 clean no 01:13:31 Katie Wells 272: Castor Oil for Digestion, Health, and Beauty With Dr. Marisol Teijeiro NDhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/marisol-teijeiro/ Thu, 04 Jul 2019 11:00:52 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404975 clean no 00:56:55 Katie Wells 271: How to Calm Your Hormones and Stop Being Hangry With Sarah Fragosohttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/sarah-fragoso/ Mon, 01 Jul 2019 11:00:20 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404932 clean no 00:56:32 Katie Wells 270: You Don’t Need More Sleep, You Need Better Sleep With ChiliPadhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/chilipad/ Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:00:51 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404878 clean no 00:54:32 Katie Wells 269: Kombucha Questions Answered: Alcohol, Candida, Pregnancy, and More With Kombucha Kamphttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/hannah-crum/ Mon, 24 Jun 2019 11:00:02 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404762 clean no 00:47:14 Katie Wells 268: Tildet Varon on Positive Parenting & Effective Family Communicationhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/tildet-varon/ Thu, 20 Jun 2019 11:00:27 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404760 clean no 00:50:17 Katie Wells 267: Solving Joint Pain & Why Sports Aren’t Good for Kids With Hunter Fitnesshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/hunter-fitness/ Mon, 17 Jun 2019 11:00:41 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404674 clean no 01:15:54 Katie Wells 266: Decoding Skin Health, Eczema, Acne, and More With Jennifer Fugohttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/jennifer-fugo/ Thu, 13 Jun 2019 11:00:08 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404400 clean no 00:57:05 Katie Wells 265: With Hormones, Normal Isn’t Always Normal With Dr. Shawn Tassonehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/shawn-tassone/ Mon, 10 Jun 2019 11:00:12 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404394 clean no 00:49:50 Katie Wells 264: Creating Exceptional Children & Polymaths Using Games of Genius With Opher Brayerhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/opher-brayer/ Thu, 06 Jun 2019 11:00:37 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404381 clean no 01:09:26 Katie Wells 263: The Beautiful No & Other Life Lessons With Sheri Salatahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/sheri-salata/ Mon, 03 Jun 2019 11:00:39 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404134 clean no 00:50:47 Katie Wells 262: Dr. Andrew Weil on Integrative Medicine, Reducing Inflammation & Most Important Factors for Healthhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/dr-weil/ Thu, 30 May 2019 11:00:43 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404130 clean no 00:55:45 Katie Wells 261: Practical Tips and Mom Hacks From Physical Kitchness Chrissa Bensonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/chrissa-benson/ Mon, 27 May 2019 11:00:51 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404024 clean no 00:49:18 Katie Wells 260: Why the 21st Century Is at War With Your Spine With Ty Carzolihttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ty-carzoli/ Thu, 23 May 2019 11:00:34 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=403859 clean no 01:02:07 Katie Wells 259: How to Learn Languages by Ear With Idahosa Nesshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/mimic-method/ Mon, 20 May 2019 12:00:48 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=403746 clean no 00:46:36 Katie Wells 258: Beating SIBO, IBS, and Histamine Intolerance With A Gutsy Girl Sarah Kay Hoffmanhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/sarah-kay-hoffman/ Thu, 16 May 2019 11:00:09 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=403727 clean no 00:56:06 Katie Wells 257: Secret Ingredients in Our Food: The Truth About GMOshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/secret-ingredients/ Mon, 13 May 2019 11:00:33 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=403575 clean no 01:19:24 Katie Wells 256: Decoding What Your Body Really Needs With Chris Masterjohn PhDhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/chris-masterjohn/ Thu, 09 May 2019 11:00:36 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=403539 clean no 01:26:39 Katie Wells 255: Dr. Valter Longo on a Fasting Mimicking Diet and Increasing Healthspanhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/valter-longo/ Mon, 06 May 2019 11:00:51 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=403437 clean no 00:54:16 Katie Wells 254: Business, Lifestyle, and Routines With The Skinny Confidentialhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/skinny-confidential/ Fri, 03 May 2019 11:00:13 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=403397 clean no 01:00:17 Katie Wells 253: A (Semi) Serious Ultra-Spiritual Conversation With JP Searshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/jp-sears/ Thu, 02 May 2019 11:00:09 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=403354 clean no 00:57:57 Katie Wells 252: How to Activate Peak Brain Performance With Neuroscientist Dr. Andrew Hillhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/peak-brain/ Mon, 29 Apr 2019 11:00:10 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402687 clean no 01:10:09 Katie Wells 251: Water Quality and How to Improve Drinking Water With Dr. Tom DiGiuseppehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/tom-digiuseppe/ Thu, 25 Apr 2019 11:00:47 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=403083 clean no 00:54:34 Katie Wells 250: Sustainable Fitness, Cork, and Benefits of Rolling With Addie Connerhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/addie-conner/ Mon, 22 Apr 2019 11:00:42 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402995 clean no 00:51:47 Katie Wells 249: How to Harness Energy & Create Success From the Inside Out With Suzy Batiz of Poo~Pourrihttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/poo-pourri/ Thu, 18 Apr 2019 11:00:38 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402831 clean no 00:54:55 Katie Wells 248: Alkaline and Ionized Water: Healthy or Hype? – With Thai Cabadoshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ionized-water/ Mon, 15 Apr 2019 11:00:58 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402806 clean no 00:43:59 Katie Wells 247: Vaccine Injuries, Autism, and Homeoprophylaxis With Dr. Jeff Knighthttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/jeff-knight/ Thu, 11 Apr 2019 11:00:54 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402742 clean no 00:48:57 Katie Wells 246: What Women Need to Know About Heart Health With Dr. Mark Menolascinohttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/menolascino/ Mon, 08 Apr 2019 11:00:16 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402705 clean no 00:52:44 Katie Wells 245: Ari Whitten on Fighting Fatigue and Anxiety With Sauna, Hormesis, NRF2 & Sun Exposurehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/fighting-fatigue/ Thu, 04 Apr 2019 11:00:54 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402627 clean no 01:08:59 Katie Wells 244: Debunking Probiotic Myths With Just Thrive Founder Tina Andersonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/just-thrive/ Mon, 01 Apr 2019 11:00:25 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402523 clean no 01:01:35 Katie Wells 243: Using an Adrenal ReCode to Calm the Nervous System With Christa Orecchiohttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/adrenal-recode/ Thu, 28 Mar 2019 11:00:59 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402404 clean no 00:56:54 Katie Wells 242: Fighting Thyroid Disease With Food & Recipes for Thyroid Health From Dr. Izabella Wentzhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/izabella-wentz/ Mon, 25 Mar 2019 11:00:48 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402293 clean no 00:55:13 Katie Wells 241: Biohacking for Moms, Anti-Aging & Raising Amazing Kids With Ben Greenfieldhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ben-greenfield/ Thu, 21 Mar 2019 11:00:20 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402190 clean no 00:54:43 Katie Wells 240: How Ethical Businesses Are Changing the World With Thrive Market Founder Nick Greenhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/nick-green/ Mon, 18 Mar 2019 11:00:25 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402087 clean no 00:59:15 Katie Wells 239: How Biological Medicine Is Changing Health (& How to Try It in Switzerland!)https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/robyn-openshaw/ Thu, 14 Mar 2019 11:00:12 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402014 clean no 00:59:14 Katie Wells 238: Using Neuroplasticity to Rewire Nervous System or Brain Disorders With Carol Garner-Houstonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/carol-garner-houston/ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 11:00:19 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=401942 clean no 00:58:26 Katie Wells 237: World Travel With Kids, Worldschooling & Entrepreneurship With Wonderling Familyhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/wonderling-family/ Thu, 07 Mar 2019 11:00:36 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=401862 clean no 00:56:45 Katie Wells 236: Facts vs. Myths About Blue Zones & Ways to Increase Longevityhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/longevity/ Mon, 04 Mar 2019 11:00:37 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=401664 clean no 00:57:53 Katie Wells 235: Signs of Pelvic Floor Dysfunction & How to Stop Pelvic Pain Naturally With Isa Herrerahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/isa-herrera/ Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:00:16 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=401669 clean no 00:53:26 Katie Wells 234: The Keto-Green Way to Optimize Hormones & Libido With Dr. Anna Cabecahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/keto-green/ Mon, 25 Feb 2019 11:00:59 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=401612 clean no 00:55:54 Katie Wells 233: Decoding Childhood Allergies and Letting Kids Get Dirty With Dr. Amy Shahhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/amy-shah/ Thu, 21 Feb 2019 11:00:40 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=401470 clean no 00:55:09 Katie Wells 232: Lessons Learned From Finland: 8 Things We Can All Learnhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/finland/ Mon, 18 Feb 2019 11:00:05 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=401295 clean no 00:53:57 Katie Wells 231: Conquering & Avoiding Breast Cancer With the 7 Essentials System From Dr. Vhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/dr-v/ Thu, 14 Feb 2019 11:00:06 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=401241 clean no 00:54:13 Katie Wells 230: Chalene Johnson on How to Protect Your Mindset & Live a Balanced Lifehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/chalene-johnson/ Mon, 11 Feb 2019 11:00:31 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=401063 clean no 00:50:37 Katie Wells 229: How to Use Atomic Habits to Change Your Lifehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/atomic-habits/ Thu, 07 Feb 2019 11:00:57 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=401062 clean no 00:59:15 Katie Wells 228: Using Buddies in My Belly to Teach Kids About Healthhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/buddies-in-my-belly/ Mon, 04 Feb 2019 11:00:25 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=401016 clean no 00:49:16 Katie Wells 227: Using the Metabolism Reset Diet to Support Liver Healthhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/metabolism-reset-diet/ Thu, 31 Jan 2019 11:00:33 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=400874 clean no 00:58:58 Katie Wells 226: Science-Backed Reasons to Ditch the Pill (& What to Do Instead) With Dr. Jolene Brightenhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/jolene-brighten/ Mon, 28 Jan 2019 11:00:52 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=400730 clean no 01:02:33 Katie Wells 225: How a New SafetyPin Technology Can Keep Your Family Saferhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/safetypin/ Thu, 24 Jan 2019 11:00:47 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=400674 clean no 00:44:07 Katie Wells 224: How to Use Sound and Music to Optimize Focus and Sleep With Brain.fmhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/brain-fm/ Mon, 21 Jan 2019 11:00:33 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=400584 clean no 00:46:41 Katie Wells 223: Mindset for Moms – Tips to Get More Done & Stress Less This Yearhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/mindset-for-moms/ Thu, 17 Jan 2019 11:00:28 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=400426 clean no 00:54:19 Katie Wells 222: Why ButcherBox Is Bringing Back Grass-Fed Meat With Mike Salguerohttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/butcher-box/ Mon, 14 Jan 2019 11:00:33 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=400349 clean no 00:54:10 Katie Wells 221: Natural Movement, Sustainable Fitness, and Lifelong Health With Dr. Mark Cucuzzellahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/mark-cucuzzella/ Thu, 10 Jan 2019 11:00:39 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=398903 clean no 01:04:40 Katie Wells 220: The Most Effective Way to Use CBD (& Why So Many Don’t Work) With Ojai Energeticshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ojai-energetics/ Mon, 07 Jan 2019 11:00:37 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=398594 clean no 01:19:41 Katie Wells 219: Why Everything We Know About Probiotics Is Wrong & How to Stop Leaky Gut With Microbiologist Kiran Krishnanhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/kiran-krishnan/ Thu, 03 Jan 2019 11:00:37 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=398582 clean no 01:20:03 Katie Wells 218: Happy New Year: 21 Tiny Habits That Can Drastically Change Your Life This Yearhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/happy-new-year/ Mon, 31 Dec 2018 11:00:04 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=398260 clean no 00:32:50 Katie Wells 217: Do Saunas Work? Understanding the Benefits With Sunlighten Founder Connie Zackhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/sunlighten/ Thu, 27 Dec 2018 11:00:33 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=398259 clean no 01:00:31 Katie Wells 216: A Look Back: 9 Powerful Lessons I Learned the Hard Way This Yearhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/powerful-lessons/ Mon, 24 Dec 2018 11:00:50 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=398258 clean no 00:33:34 Katie Wells 215: Breaking Financial Stress to Create Wealth and Wellth for Life With Krisstina Wisehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/krisstina-wise/ Thu, 20 Dec 2018 13:52:29 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=398153 clean no 01:03:46 Katie Wells 214: Using Mindset and Personalization to Make Lifelong Health Changes With Dane Johnsonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/dane-johnson/ Mon, 17 Dec 2018 11:00:32 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=398086 clean no 01:00:14 Katie Wells 213: Making Food Allergy Prevention Easier With Ready, Set, Food!https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ready-set-food/ Thu, 13 Dec 2018 11:00:24 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=398029 clean no 01:01:24 Katie Wells 212: How to Release Cravings and Emotional Eating With EFThttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/emotional-eating/ Mon, 10 Dec 2018 11:00:47 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=397934 clean no 00:54:51 Katie Wells 211: How to Boost Your Adrenals and Cleanse Using Food With Dr. Alejandro Jungerhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/junger/ Thu, 06 Dec 2018 18:18:44 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=397813 clean no 00:51:00 Katie Wells 210: Why Most Detox Methods Are Dangerous & What to Do Instead With Dr. Shayne Morrishttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/shayne-morris/ Mon, 03 Dec 2018 11:00:38 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=397674 clean no 01:03:46 Katie Wells 209: Sun Protection and Anti-Aging From the Inside Out With Polypodium Leucotomoshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/polypodium-leucotomos/ Thu, 29 Nov 2018 14:26:45 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=397557 clean no 00:56:03 Katie Wells 208: Understanding Superbugs & Antibiotic Resistance With Marjory Wildcrafthttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/marjory-wildcraft/ Mon, 26 Nov 2018 11:00:54 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=397487 clean no 01:05:17 Katie Wells 207: Santa Sold Shrooms? The Untold Story of St. Nick (& How to Stay Healthy Over the Holidays) With Tero Isokauppilahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/santa-sold-shrooms/ Thu, 22 Nov 2018 11:00:47 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=396937 clean no 00:44:18 Katie Wells 206: Your Parenting Mojo on Why We Need to Let Our Kids Take More Riskshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/parenting-mojo/ Mon, 19 Nov 2018 11:00:33 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=396793 clean no 00:52:35 Katie Wells 205: Everything You Need to Know About GMOs, Glyphosate, and Gut Health With Dr. Zach Bushhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/zach-bush/ Thu, 15 Nov 2018 11:00:11 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=396788 clean no 01:05:06 Katie Wells 204: The Rise of Autoimmune Disease (& How to Thrive Even If You Have It) With Dr. Guillermo Ruizhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/guillermo-ruiz/ Mon, 12 Nov 2018 11:00:16 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=396734 clean no 01:03:39 Katie Wells 203: Hidden EMF Dangers and How to Mitigate Them With Geobiologist Brian Hoyerhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/brian-hoyer/ Thu, 08 Nov 2018 11:00:26 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=396559 clean no 00:51:51 Katie Wells 202: How Footwear Affects Posture, Alignment, & Movement With Gordon Hay From ALINEhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/aline/ Mon, 05 Nov 2018 11:00:57 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=396496 clean no 01:04:06 Katie Wells 201: Understanding Fasting & Keto for Women (Even During Pregnancy or Breastfeeding) + Instant Pot Tipshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/instant-pot-tips/ Thu, 01 Nov 2018 11:00:19 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=396264 clean no 00:54:03 Katie Wells 200th Episode – Most Important Thing for Healthhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/200th-episode/ Mon, 29 Oct 2018 11:00:56 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=396165 clean no 01:02:39 Katie Wells 199: How Diet Directly Affects Mental Health With Autumn Smith of Paleovalleyhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/paleovalley/ Thu, 25 Oct 2018 11:00:41 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=395797 clean no 00:50:52 Katie Wells 198: How to Be Green Enough & Avoid the Worst Offenders in Your Home With Leah Segediehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/green-enough/ Mon, 22 Oct 2018 11:00:53 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=395795 clean no 00:58:31 Katie Wells 197: The Opposite of Being Spoiled: Raising Financially Responsible Kids With Ron Lieberhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ron-lieber/ Thu, 18 Oct 2018 11:00:09 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=395685 clean no 00:52:24 Katie Wells 196: How the Modern World Is Changing Our Hormones (& How to Create a Balance Plan)https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/balance-plan/ Mon, 15 Oct 2018 11:00:48 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=395620 clean no 00:59:22 Katie Wells 195: Saunacast: A Huge Announcement from Mommypotamus & Wellness Mamahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/mommypotamus/ Thu, 11 Oct 2018 12:38:54 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=395586 clean no 00:54:14 Katie Wells 194: Longevity, Autoimmunity, & Plant-Based Diets With Nora Gedgaudashttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/nora-gedgaudas/ Mon, 08 Oct 2018 11:00:20 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=395495 clean no 01:05:13 Katie Wells 193: How to Protect Your Family From the Rise of 5G & Other EMFshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/5g/ Thu, 04 Oct 2018 11:00:27 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=395354 clean no 00:57:12 Katie Wells 192: How to Avoid Rushing Woman Syndrome & Balance Hormones With Dr. Sonya Jensenhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/sonya-jensen/ Mon, 01 Oct 2018 11:00:40 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=395281 clean no 00:52:37 Katie Wells 191: Understanding How Gaming Disorder & Gaming Addiction Are Affecting Our Kidshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/gaming-disorder/ Thu, 27 Sep 2018 11:00:41 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=395222 clean no 01:17:02 Katie Wells 190: The Easiest Way to Track HRV, Sleep, and Movement With Oura Ringhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/oura-ring/ Mon, 24 Sep 2018 11:00:28 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=395164 clean no 00:58:18 Katie Wells 189: How Red Light Therapy or Photobiomodulation Works & How to Get the Benefits With Joovvhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/joovv/ Thu, 20 Sep 2018 04:52:52 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=387578 clean no 00:46:41 Katie Wells 188: Saunacast: How We Took Control of Our Healthcare and Insurance (& Saved Money)https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/saunacast-healthcare/ Mon, 17 Sep 2018 13:00:48 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=387539 clean no 00:35:31 Katie Wells 187: A Whole Life Challenge to Improve Your Life in Small Daily Stepshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/whole-life-challenge/ Thu, 13 Sep 2018 13:00:54 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=387441 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 186: Carnivore Diet, Ketosis, Macros, & Diet Variation With Dr. Anthony Gustinhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/carnivore-diet/ Mon, 10 Sep 2018 13:00:57 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=387397 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 185: How to Get Lab Tests at Home & Take Charge of Your Own Health With EverlyWellhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/everlywell/ Thu, 06 Sep 2018 13:00:38 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=387339 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 184: Meta Learning, Speed Reading, & How to Learn Faster With Jim Kwikhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/jim-kwik/ Mon, 03 Sep 2018 13:00:43 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=387322 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 183: Is Fluoride the Hidden Cause of Acne? (& What to Do About It)https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/acne-hidden-cause/ Thu, 30 Aug 2018 13:00:29 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=387229 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 182: Why You Need to Exercise Differently If You Have Autoimmune Disease (& How) With Autoimmune Stronghttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/autoimmune-strong/ Mon, 27 Aug 2018 13:00:12 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=387181 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 181: How to Find Truly Natural & Non-Toxic Products With Marilee Nelsonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/natural-non-toxic-products/ Thu, 23 Aug 2018 13:00:14 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=386835 clean no 01:09:49 Katie Wells 180: How Hidden Elements in Your Home Affect Your Mood & Health With Branch Basics Founder Marilee Nelsonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/branch-basics/ Mon, 20 Aug 2018 13:00:09 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=386655 clean no 01:42:16 Katie Wells 179: Understanding DNA Damage & How to Reverse It With NanoVihttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/nanovi/ Thu, 16 Aug 2018 13:00:59 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=386026 clean no 00:48:28 Katie Wells 178: A Pediatrician Explains How EMF Kill Switches Can Protect Our Childrenhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/emf-kill-switch/ Mon, 13 Aug 2018 13:00:02 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=386291 clean no 00:58:38 Katie Wells 177: Why (Almost) Everything You Know About Dental Health Is Wrong With Periodontist Dr. Al Danenberghttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/dr-danenberg/ Thu, 09 Aug 2018 13:00:03 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=386021 clean no 01:04:01 Katie Wells 176: Heather Chauvin on Letting Go of Mom Guilt, Ending Tantrums, & Mindful Disciplinehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/heather-chauvin/ Mon, 06 Aug 2018 13:00:22 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=385810 clean no 00:53:23 Katie Wells 175: When Natural Doesn’t Mean Safe – Creating Non-Toxic Homes With Green Design Centerhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/green-design-center/ Mon, 30 Jul 2018 13:00:00 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=377911 clean no 00:56:46 Katie Wells 174: How to Save Money and Get Better Healthcare With SteadyMDhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/steadymd/ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 16:08:39 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=377816 clean no 00:57:25 Katie Wells 173: The Inflammation Model of Chronic Disease With Dr. Jaban Moorehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/jaban-moore/ Mon, 23 Jul 2018 13:00:44 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=377752 clean no 00:57:49 Katie Wells 172: How to Understand Your Genes to Personalize Your Diet With Nutrition Genomehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/nutrition-genome/ Mon, 16 Jul 2018 13:00:54 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=369313 clean no 00:52:13 Katie Wells 171: How to Keep Kids Water Safe With Tips From a Water Safety Instructorhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/keep-kids-water-safe/ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 13:00:52 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=369312 clean no 00:50:58 Katie Wells 170: Using Biological Medicine & Uncommon Therapies to Help With Chronic Conditionshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/biological-medicine/ Mon, 09 Jul 2018 13:00:45 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=369254 clean no 00:59:16 Katie Wells 169: From Advanced Stage Cancer to Remission in 7 Months on a Quest to Cure Cancerhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/quest-to-cure-cancer/ Mon, 02 Jul 2018 13:00:51 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=369185 clean no 01:12:09 Katie Wells 168: A Proactive Approach to Aging and Sexual Health and Wellness With HealthWellnessMDhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/healthwellnessmd/ Mon, 25 Jun 2018 13:00:17 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=369078 clean no 00:38:36 Katie Wells 167: Lessons We Can Learn from Europe and Natural Wineshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/europe/ Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:46:55 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=368999 clean no 00:45:52 Katie Wells 166: Understanding Autoimmunity & the Mind/Body Connection With Body Belief Author Aimee Raupphttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/body-belief/ Mon, 18 Jun 2018 13:00:32 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=368551 clean no 00:52:01 Katie Wells 165: How to Make Simple Green Smoothies a Daily Habit (Even on a Tight Budget!)https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/simple-green-smoothies/ Mon, 11 Jun 2018 13:00:35 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=368291 clean no 00:49:17 Katie Wells 164: Using Platelet-Rich Plasma Therapy & Sound Therapy to Improve Health With HealthGAINShttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/healthgains/ Mon, 04 Jun 2018 13:00:27 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=368233 clean no 00:42:45 Katie Wells 163: Fascinating Fungi & How to Use Medicinal Mushrooms With Tero Isokauppilahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/tero-isokauppila/ Mon, 28 May 2018 13:00:16 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=367953 clean no 00:57:20 Katie Wells 162: Meditation for Fidgety Skeptics – How to Be 10% Happierhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/meditation-for-fidgety-skeptics/ Mon, 21 May 2018 13:00:30 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=367615 clean no 00:38:21 Katie Wells 161: Helping Stop Sex Trafficking & Keeping Kids Safe With Operation Underground Railroadhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/operation-underground-railroad/ Mon, 14 May 2018 13:00:13 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=366946 clean no 00:48:18 Katie Wells 160: What the Heck Should I Actually Eat? With Dr. Mark Hymanhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/mark-hyman/ Mon, 07 May 2018 13:00:49 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=366434 clean no 00:50:44 Katie Wells 159: How Naveen Jain Plans to Fix Education, Make Disease Optional, & Land on the Moonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/naveen-jain/ Thu, 03 May 2018 13:00:18 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=358159 clean no 00:55:10 Katie Wells 158: How to Use Bee Products for Health & Save the Bees with Beekeeper’s Naturalshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/beekeepers-naturals/ Mon, 30 Apr 2018 13:00:16 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=357912 clean no 00:52:47 Katie Wells 157: How Music Like Wholetones Can Change the Brain and the Bodyhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/wholetones/ Thu, 26 Apr 2018 13:00:21 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=349307 clean no 00:58:04 Katie Wells 156: Natural Ways to Improve Skin With Andy Hnilo of Alitura Naturalshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/alitura-naturals/ Mon, 23 Apr 2018 13:00:56 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=349280 clean no 00:57:07 Katie Wells 155: Thriving With Food Allergies or Intolerance & Crushing Life With the Paleo Chefhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/paleo-chef/ Thu, 19 Apr 2018 13:00:19 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=348453 clean no 00:44:42 Katie Wells 154: Understanding and Mitigating EMFs in the Home With Peter Sierck From EMFRFhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/emfrf/ Mon, 16 Apr 2018 13:00:01 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=348450 clean no 00:58:25 Katie Wells 153: How Bioenergetics is Changing the Future of Health – With NES Health Founder Harry Masseyhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/nes-health/ Thu, 12 Apr 2018 13:00:36 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=348041 clean no 00:59:01 Katie Wells 152: Foods for Hormone Balance With Magdalena Wszelakihttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/magdalena-wszelaki/ Mon, 09 Apr 2018 13:00:33 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=347896 clean no 00:49:43 Katie Wells 151: How Brain Harmony is Improving Autism & Sensory Disordershttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/brain-harmony/ Thu, 05 Apr 2018 13:17:06 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=347651 clean no 00:57:53 Katie Wells 150: Debunking Myths About Gallbladder Disease With Deborah Graefer From Gallbladder Attackhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/gallbladder-attack/ Mon, 02 Apr 2018 13:00:43 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=347516 clean no 00:43:57 Katie Wells 149: Saunacast: Genetics, Personalized Medicine & Random Health Experimentshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/genetics-personalized-medicine/ Thu, 29 Mar 2018 13:00:59 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=347377 clean no 00:45:46 Katie Wells 148: Holistic Eye Care & Improving Eyesight Naturally with Dr. Bernehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/dr-berne/ Mon, 26 Mar 2018 13:00:30 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=347163 clean no 00:49:20 Katie Wells 147: Using Heart Rate Variability with HeartMath to Stop Stress & Improve Nervous System Healthhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/heartmath/ Thu, 22 Mar 2018 13:00:27 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=346547 clean no 00:45:01 Katie Wells 146: Is Chiropractic Safe and How to Detox Safely with Dr. Hardickhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/bj-hardick-chiropractic/ Mon, 19 Mar 2018 13:00:24 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=346529 clean no 01:09:15 Katie Wells 145: Algae: The Keto & Vegan Superfood with More Nutrients Than Veggies (& Where to Get It)https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/algae-energy/ Thu, 15 Mar 2018 13:00:11 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=346290 clean no 00:48:09 Katie Wells 144: What Breath Acetone Can Tell You About Fat Burning, Metabolism & Inflammationhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/levl-breath-acetone/ Mon, 12 Mar 2018 13:00:11 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=346184 clean no 00:43:44 Katie Wells 143: Thomas DeLauer on Reducing Inflammation, Curcumin, Keto for Women, & Easy Weight Losshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/thomas-delauer/ Thu, 08 Mar 2018 13:00:52 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=345969 clean no 00:57:53 Katie Wells 142: Is Adrenal Fatigue Real or Just Bad Science? With Ari Whittenhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ari-whitten/ Mon, 05 Mar 2018 13:00:48 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=345711 clean no 01:01:57 Katie Wells 141: How to Accept Yourself, Foster Community, & Be Unlimited with Dr. Mark Atkinsonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/be-unlimited/ Thu, 01 Mar 2018 13:00:04 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=345255 clean no 00:55:46 Katie Wells 140: How Stem Cells Are Helping People Recover from Injury and Avoid Surgeryhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/stem-cells/ Mon, 26 Feb 2018 13:00:09 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=345417 clean no 00:31:35 Katie Wells 139: Understanding Generational Toxins and Epigenetic Changes with Dr. Mindy Pelzhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/generational-toxins/ Thu, 22 Feb 2018 13:00:04 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=345234 clean no 00:53:23 Katie Wells 138: How to Use Specific & Targeted Essential Oil Blends to Support the Brain & Parasympathetic Nervous Systemhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/essential-oil-blends/ Mon, 19 Feb 2018 13:00:40 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=345045 clean no 00:42:23 Katie Wells 137: A Holistic Rx for Keeping Your Whole Family Healthy with Dr. Madiha Saeed, MDhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/holistic-rx/ Thu, 15 Feb 2018 13:00:57 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=344867 clean no 01:00:19 Katie Wells 136: How to Unzip Your Genes to Understand Your Health with Dr. Jennifer Stagghttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/unzip-genes/ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 13:00:37 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=344500 clean no 00:48:06 Katie Wells 135: Understanding Genetic Testing, Epigenetics & Genetic Polymorphisms with Dr. Ben Lynchhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ben-lynch/ Thu, 08 Feb 2018 13:00:18 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=344298 clean no 00:59:39 Katie Wells 134: Five Benefits of Fasting, Autophagy, Diet Variation & Cellular Healing with Dr. Daniel Pompahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/cellular-healing/ Mon, 05 Feb 2018 13:00:20 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=344259 clean no 00:58:37 Katie Wells 133: GMOs, Glyphosate, Organic Food & What’s Making Our Children Sickhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/glyphosate/ Thu, 01 Feb 2018 13:00:31 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=344029 clean no 01:01:11 Katie Wells 132: How to Use Cannabidiol or CBD for Sleep, Hormones, and Healthhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/cannabidiol/ Mon, 29 Jan 2018 13:00:56 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=343805 clean no 00:51:12 Katie Wells 131: Sourcing Sustainable Food & Healthy “Fast” Food with The Good Kitchenhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/good-kitchen/ Thu, 25 Jan 2018 13:00:58 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=343725 clean no 00:41:11 Katie Wells 130: Biohacking for Moms & Reversing Aging with Bulletproof’s Dave Aspreyhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/dave-asprey-biohacking/ Mon, 22 Jan 2018 13:00:21 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=343578 clean no 00:50:24 Katie Wells 129: Childhood Cancer: Avoidance, Treatment, & Understanding the Odds with My Kid Cures Cancerhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/childhood-cancer/ Thu, 18 Jan 2018 13:00:42 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=343456 clean no 00:51:00 Katie Wells 128: ADD, ADHD & Behavior Challenges with Psychologist and Nutritionist Dr. Nicole Beurkenshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/nicole-beurkens-adhd/ Mon, 15 Jan 2018 13:00:16 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=343352 clean no 00:56:15 Katie Wells 127: Using the Dental Diet to Reverse Dental Problems with Dr. Steven Linhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/dental-diet/ Thu, 11 Jan 2018 13:00:32 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=335368 clean no 00:54:27 Katie Wells 126: Dr. Marc Sklar on How to Beat Infertility and Get Pregnant Naturallyhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/marc-sklar/ Mon, 08 Jan 2018 13:00:41 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=335214 clean no 00:52:12 Katie Wells 125: Understanding Food Intolerance & Fighting for Your Family with JJ Virginhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/jj-virgin/ Thu, 04 Jan 2018 13:00:52 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=326964 clean no 00:57:43 Katie Wells 124: Happy New Year 2018! Setting Challenges + Experiments Instead of Resolutions (& Sneak Peek)https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/new-year/ Mon, 01 Jan 2018 13:00:51 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=326657 clean no 00:31:15 Katie Wells 123: Sharing Gratitude, Joy, and Christmas Family Traditionshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/christmas-family-traditions/ Mon, 25 Dec 2017 12:00:12 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=326531 clean no 00:19:17 Katie Wells 122: A Healthy Baby Is NOT the Only Thing That Matters (& Is Home Birth Safe?)https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/healthy-baby/ Mon, 18 Dec 2017 13:00:22 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=326429 clean no 01:03:38 Katie Wells 121: Cookware Problems: Understanding What’s Hiding in Most Cookwarehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/cookware-problems/ Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:00:26 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=326333 clean no 00:49:40 Katie Wells 120: A Real-Life Approach to Reducing EMFs with Dr. Libby Darnellhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/reducing-emfs/ Mon, 11 Dec 2017 13:00:18 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=326176 clean no 01:04:38 Katie Wells 119: Cyber Security Tips to Keep Your Family Safer Onlinehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/cyber-security-tips/ Thu, 07 Dec 2017 13:00:28 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=326057 clean no 00:43:05 Katie Wells 118: An At-Home Approach to Balancing Thyroid Hormones with McCall McPhersonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/balancing-thyroid-hormones/ Mon, 04 Dec 2017 13:00:36 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=325939 clean no 00:50:32 Katie Wells 117: Fitness at Any Age with Flipping 50s Debra Atkinsonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/debra-atkinson/ Mon, 27 Nov 2017 13:00:19 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=317807 clean no 00:55:43 Katie Wells 116: How to Reboot Your Metabolism Using the Keto Reset Diet With Mark Sissonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/keto-reset-diet/ Mon, 20 Nov 2017 13:00:10 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=317623 clean no 01:01:37 Katie Wells 115: Decoding Autoimmune Disease with Dr. Tom O’Bryanhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/autoimmune-disease-obryan/ Mon, 13 Nov 2017 13:00:58 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=302719 clean no 01:12:33 Katie Wells 114: Do We Need to Worry about Radiation and Mercury in Seafood?https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/mercury-in-seafood/ Mon, 06 Nov 2017 13:00:56 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=302520 clean no 00:44:17 Katie Wells 113: Toxic Metals That Cause Fatigue and How to Detox Themhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/detox-toxic-metals/ Mon, 30 Oct 2017 13:00:17 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=294700 clean no 00:49:01 Katie Wells 112: The Only 8 Ingredients Any Cook Needs with Food Scientist Ali Bouzarihttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/culinary-scientist-ali-bouzari/ Mon, 23 Oct 2017 13:00:41 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=286236 clean no 00:55:25 Katie Wells 111: Biohacking for Moms – Lessons From the Bulletproof Conferencehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/biohacking-for-moms/ Thu, 19 Oct 2017 13:00:49 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=286219 clean no 00:24:37 Katie Wells 110: How Vibrational Frequencies Affect Our Daily Liveshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/vibrational-frequencies/ Mon, 16 Oct 2017 13:00:45 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=286129 clean no 00:47:31 Katie Wells 109: Vaginal Health, Menopause, and Hormone Therapy With Dr. Anna Cabecahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/vaginal-health-dr-anna-cabeca/ Mon, 09 Oct 2017 13:00:16 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=285815 clean no 00:51:02 Katie Wells 108: Why the Birth Control Pill Screws Up Hormones & What to Use Insteadhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/birth-control-pill-alternatives/ Mon, 02 Oct 2017 13:00:17 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=285679 clean no 00:41:29 Katie Wells 107: Improve Your Brain to Avoid Alzheimer’s, Dementia, & Memory Loss with Dr. Perlmutterhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/memory-loss-dr-perlmutter/ Mon, 25 Sep 2017 13:00:09 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=277896 clean no 00:56:19 Katie Wells 106: Why to Stop Doing Kegels & Squat Instead with Katy Bowmanhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/katy-bowman/ Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:00:41 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=277814 clean no 01:00:30 Katie Wells 105: How to Beat Anxiety and Resolve Panic Attacks with Targeted Amino Acidshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/beat-anxiety/ Mon, 11 Sep 2017 13:00:26 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=270133 clean no 00:53:43 Katie Wells 104: Uncovering the Root Causes of PCOS, Endometriosis, and Morehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/pcos-root-cause/ Mon, 04 Sep 2017 13:00:35 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=269719 clean no 00:41:08 Katie Wells 103: A Professional Organizer Shares How to Beat Clutterhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/professional-organizer/ Thu, 31 Aug 2017 13:00:39 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=269664 clean no 00:53:49 Katie Wells 102: How to Stay Safe During Tick Season & Avoid Chronic Lyme Disease with Dr. Jay Davidsonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/chronic-lyme-disease/ Mon, 28 Aug 2017 13:00:39 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=269634 clean no 00:52:23 Katie Wells 101: Critical Thinking in a Social Media World (What You Didn’t Learn in History Class)https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/critical-thinking/ Thu, 24 Aug 2017 13:00:11 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=269557 clean no 00:54:28 Katie Wells Episode 100 AMA: Your Questions Answered on Circumcision, Vaccines, CBD & Morehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ama-vaccines-circumcision-cbd/ Mon, 21 Aug 2017 13:00:04 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=269542 clean no 00:47:31 Katie Wells 99: Using Health Tracking to Discover Your Own Personalized Medicinehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/health-tracking/ Thu, 17 Aug 2017 13:00:45 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=269512 clean no 00:57:45 Katie Wells 98: Overcoming Orthorexia with Intuitive, Mindful Eating with Devyn Sissonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/orthorexia-devyn-sisson/ Mon, 14 Aug 2017 13:00:02 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=269447 clean no 00:35:55 Katie Wells 97: OB & Midwife Aviva Romm on PPD, Thyroid Problems, & MTHFRhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/aviva-romm-midwife/ Thu, 10 Aug 2017 13:00:24 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=269431 clean no 01:02:58 Katie Wells 96: Using Natural and Traditional Medicine to Fix the Gut Microbiome with Dr. Ken Brownhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ken-brown-atrantil/ Mon, 07 Aug 2017 13:00:42 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=269404 clean no 00:52:50 Katie Wells 95: The Science of Sustainable Weight Loss with Bright Linehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/sustainable-weight-loss/ Thu, 03 Aug 2017 13:00:01 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=269323 clean no 01:30:33 Katie Wells 94: Low Level Red Light Therapy for Cellular Health and Healinghttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/red-light-therapy/ Mon, 31 Jul 2017 13:00:58 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=269304 clean no 00:36:04 Katie Wells 93: How to Avoid the Most Common Fitness Mistakes Women Makehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/common-fitness-mistakes/ Thu, 27 Jul 2017 13:00:59 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=269235 clean no 00:51:22 Katie Wells 92: A Holistic Pediatrician Talks Ear Infections, Fevers, & Vaccineshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/holistic-pediatrician/ Mon, 24 Jul 2017 13:00:28 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=269209 clean no 00:57:42 Katie Wells 91: Are IVs the Answer to Modern Nutrient Deficiencies with Dr. Craig Koniverhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/craig-koniver/ Thu, 20 Jul 2017 13:00:02 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=269153 clean no 00:47:29 Katie Wells 90: A Mind Of Your Own: Tackling Mental Illness and Fixing Hormones with Dr. Kelly Broganhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/kelly-brogan/ Mon, 17 Jul 2017 12:00:11 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=269088 clean no 01:26:21 Katie Wells 89: Why Sleep Is More Important Than Diet and Exercise Combined with Shawn Stevensonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/shawn-stevenson/ Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:00:14 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=268976 clean no 01:07:35 Katie Wells 88: Pregnancy Exercise, Diastasis, and Pelvic Floor Health with Lorraine Scapenshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/pregnancy-exercise/ Mon, 10 Jul 2017 13:00:06 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=268913 clean no 00:53:29 Katie Wells 87: How to Stop Emotional Eating (From a Nutritionist Who Lost 100 Pounds!)https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/stop-emotional-eating/ Mon, 03 Jul 2017 14:18:06 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=267168 clean no 00:52:11 Katie Wells 86: The Science of the Oral Microbiome and Remineralization with Will of OraWellnesshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/orawellness/ Mon, 26 Jun 2017 12:00:26 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=267154 clean no 00:55:58 Katie Wells 85: How to Raise an Entrepreneur: Nurturing Risk Takers, Problem Solvers, & Change Makershttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/raising-an-entrepreneur/ Mon, 19 Jun 2017 13:00:45 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=252727 clean no 00:55:24 Katie Wells 84: How to Use Ancient Spices to Make Weight Loss Easierhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ancient-spices-for-weight-loss/ Mon, 12 Jun 2017 12:00:59 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=252577 clean no 00:44:40 Katie Wells 83: Beating Postpartum Depression & Pelvic Floor Care with Dr. Jolene Brightenhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/beating-postpartum-depression/ Mon, 05 Jun 2017 13:00:27 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=229927 clean no 00:56:53 Katie Wells 82: Discovering the SIBO Solution with Sylvie McCrackenhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/sibo-solution/ Mon, 29 May 2017 12:00:32 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=229891 clean no 00:52:38 Katie Wells 81: Meal Planning Tips to Simplify Your Life & Reduce Stresshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/real-plans-meal-planning/ Mon, 22 May 2017 12:00:42 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=229803 clean no 00:54:59 Katie Wells 80: What Your Monthly Cycle Reveals About Your Hormones With Alisa Vittihttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/monthly-cycle-alisa-vitti/ Mon, 15 May 2017 13:00:37 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=222038 clean no 00:49:28 Katie Wells 79: Using Naturopathic Medicine to Beat Hormone Imbalance & Nutrient Deficiencieshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/naturopathic-medicine-dr-lo/ Mon, 08 May 2017 12:27:33 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=213769 clean no 00:35:41 Katie Wells 78: How Moms Can Affect Actual Change with Big Food and Big Ag with Leah Segediehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/leah-segedie-mamavation/ Mon, 01 May 2017 17:46:58 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=205675 clean no 00:52:29 Katie Wells 77: Minimalism with a Family to Decrease Stress and Clutter with Joshua Beckerhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/minimalism-family/ Mon, 24 Apr 2017 13:00:25 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=205673 clean no 00:55:09 Katie Wells 76: How to Optimize Your Pregnancy and Birth Experience with Mama Natural Genevieve Howlandhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/mama-natural/ Mon, 17 Apr 2017 13:00:52 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=205087 clean no 00:57:30 Katie Wells 75: Rock the Instant Pot and Ferment Anything with Wardeh Harmonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/wardeh-harmon-ferment-anything/ Mon, 10 Apr 2017 13:00:35 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=204742 clean no 00:49:25 Katie Wells 74: Dr. Izabella Wentz on Improving Hashimoto’s in As Little As Two Weekshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/improving-hashimotos-wentz/ Mon, 03 Apr 2017 11:00:43 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=203166 clean no 00:50:12 Katie Wells 73: The Truth About EMFs, WiFi, and Radiation (+ How to Avoid Them!)https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/emfs-wifi-radiation/ Mon, 27 Mar 2017 13:00:54 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=195177 clean no 01:02:22 Katie Wells 72: How to Turn Off Cravings and Rewire Your Appetite with Robb Wolfhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/turn-off-cravings/ Mon, 20 Mar 2017 13:00:53 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=187656 clean no 01:00:07 Katie Wells 71: Winecast: All the Unusual Things We’ve Tried In the Name of Healthhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/unusual-things-weve-tried/ Mon, 13 Mar 2017 13:00:08 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=156403 clean no 00:26:50 Katie Wells 70: All Bone Broth Is Not Created Equal with Justin Mares of Kettle & Firehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/kettlefire-bone-broth/ Mon, 06 Mar 2017 16:55:40 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=157008 clean no 00:37:28 Katie Wells 69: Saunacast: Birth Freedom, Gut Healing & Healthy Starcheshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/birth-freedom-gut-healing/ Tue, 28 Feb 2017 13:00:21 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=156402 clean no 00:25:36 Katie Wells 68: The Miracle of Microbirth: What Every Mother Should Knowhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/microbirth/ Mon, 27 Feb 2017 12:00:49 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=156204 clean no 01:20:52 Katie Wells 67: Easy Everyday Detox Tips with Megan the Detoxinistahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/everyday-detox-tips/ Mon, 20 Feb 2017 13:00:37 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=155888 clean no 00:42:38 Katie Wells 66: Vote with Your Dollars to Make (Real) Change with John Duranthttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/vote-with-your-dollars/ Mon, 13 Feb 2017 12:00:06 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=155532 clean no 00:52:03 Katie Wells 65: Safe Aromatherapy and Essential Oil Use with Retha Nesmithhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/safe-aromatherapy/ Mon, 06 Feb 2017 11:00:17 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=155357 clean no 00:59:40 Katie Wells 64: How to Keep Your Family Safe With Tips from Former CIA Agent Jason Hansonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/family-safety/ Mon, 30 Jan 2017 13:00:39 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=147856 clean no 00:39:07 Katie Wells 63: How to Choose a (Truly) Healthy Wine with Todd Whitehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/healthy-wine/ Mon, 23 Jan 2017 12:00:20 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=139581 clean no 01:21:43 Katie Wells 62: Good Clean Dirt with Jasmina Aganovic of Mother Dirthttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/jasmina-aganovic-good-clean-dirt/ Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:00:25 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=139580 clean no 00:38:01 Katie Wells 61: An Electrifying New Way To Change Habitshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/change-habits-pavlok/ Mon, 09 Jan 2017 13:00:33 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=139579 clean no 00:58:46 Katie Wells 60: Deep Nutrition and the Four Pillars of Healthhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/deep-nutrition/ Tue, 03 Jan 2017 11:30:56 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=139557 clean no 01:17:14 Katie Wells 59: SaunaCast: Katie and Heather Talk Goals, Parenting & Saunashttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/goals-parenting-saunas/ Mon, 02 Jan 2017 19:07:37 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=139555 clean no 00:31:58 Katie Wells 58: How Knowing Your Chronotype Can Improve Your Sleephttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/knowing-your-chronotype/ Wed, 14 Sep 2016 18:28:50 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=127294 clean no 01:07:34 Katie Wells 57: Natural Parenting Tipshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/natural-parenting-tips/ Mon, 06 Jun 2016 12:05:43 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=121192 clean no 00:24:20 Katie Wells 56: Teaching Kids to Cook Real Foodhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/teaching-kids-cook-real-food/ Mon, 30 May 2016 15:17:33 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=120809 clean no 00:39:14 Katie Wells 55: Real Food Shopping Tips and Trickshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/real-food-shopping-tips-tricks/ Mon, 23 May 2016 16:49:28 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=119494 clean no 00:23:35 Katie Wells 54: Baby Steps for Eating Real Foodhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/baby-steps-eating-real-food/ Tue, 17 May 2016 00:52:32 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=119434 clean no 00:25:04 Katie Wells 53: Does Leaky Gut Cause Autoimmunity?https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/leaky-gut-cause-autoimmunity/ Mon, 09 May 2016 13:00:42 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=119365 clean no 00:24:31 Katie Wells 52: Overcoming Gut Infections: SIBO, Protozoa, & Candidahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/overcoming-gut-infections/ Mon, 02 May 2016 12:00:47 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=119268 clean no 00:27:28 Katie Wells 51: Understanding the Microbiomehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/understanding-the-microbiome/ Mon, 25 Apr 2016 10:27:27 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=119212 clean no 00:25:07 Katie Wells 50: Fertility Preparation and Optimizing Pregnancyhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/fertility-prep-optimizing-pregnancy/ Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:00:08 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=119109 clean no 00:38:50 Katie Wells 49: Combining Pharmaceuticals and Natural Remedieshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/pharmaceuticals-natural-medicine/ Mon, 11 Apr 2016 12:00:01 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=119018 clean no 00:25:52 Katie Wells 48: Misconceptions about Common Medicationshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/misconceptions-common-medications/ Mon, 04 Apr 2016 11:00:34 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=118949 clean no 00:28:39 Katie Wells 47: Long-Term Dangers of Birth Control Pillshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/dangers-of-birth-control-pills/ Mon, 28 Mar 2016 11:00:05 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=105559 clean no 00:35:52 Katie Wells 46: The Overmedication of Americahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/overmedication-of-america/ Mon, 21 Mar 2016 11:30:26 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=98818 clean no 00:26:22 Katie Wells 45: How to Lose Weight with Thyroid Problemshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/lose-weight-with-thyroid-problems/ Mon, 14 Mar 2016 12:15:16 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=77818 clean no 00:27:09 Katie Wells 44: Diet & Lifestyle Interventionshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/diet-lifestyle-interventions/ Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:00:20 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=77816 clean no 00:33:56 Katie Wells 43: How to Get a Correct Thyroid Diagnosishttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/correct-thyroid-diagnoses/ Mon, 29 Feb 2016 19:34:54 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=77814 clean no 00:28:47 Katie Wells 42: Thyroid Disease and Pregnancyhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/thyroid-disease-and-pregnancy/ Mon, 22 Feb 2016 13:30:30 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=77812 clean no 00:16:10 Katie Wells 41: Natural Remedies for Back to Schoolhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/natural-remedies-for-back-to-school/ Fri, 21 Aug 2015 12:43:29 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=58934 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 40: Is Microalgae a Superfood?https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/microalgae-superfood/ Fri, 31 Jul 2015 12:05:47 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=57837 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 39: Is ADHD Under Diagnosed?https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/adhd-under-diagnosed/ Fri, 17 Jul 2015 20:28:57 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=57009 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 38: The Reality of Real Foodhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/reality-of-real-food/ Fri, 19 Jun 2015 19:34:22 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=55283 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 37: How to Get Glowing Skin at Any Agehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/glowing-skin/ Fri, 12 Jun 2015 15:14:45 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=55145 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 36: Getting Started With Homemade Kombuchahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/homemade-kombucha/ Fri, 05 Jun 2015 23:40:49 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=54806 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 35: GMOs & How to Test for Glyphosatehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/gmos-test-for-glyphosate/ Fri, 29 May 2015 19:34:34 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=54660 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 34: The One Where I Talk About Topical Magnesiumhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/topical-magnesium/ Fri, 22 May 2015 15:31:07 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=54172 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 33: How to Create a Natural Homehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/creating-natural-home/ Fri, 15 May 2015 15:41:55 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=53890 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 32: Healthy Summer Tipshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/healthy-summer/ Fri, 08 May 2015 12:20:16 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=53403 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 31: How to Know if You Have Gluten Sensitivityhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/gluten-sensitivity/ Thu, 30 Apr 2015 15:45:50 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=38959 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 30: Micronutrients & Healthy Fatshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/micronutrients-healthy-fats/ Sat, 25 Apr 2015 20:32:36 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=37370 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 29: Methylation Problems & Gene Mutationshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/methylation-problems-gene-mutations/ Fri, 17 Apr 2015 16:53:33 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=37239 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 28: Can Cavities Remineralize?https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/can-cavities-remineralize/ Wed, 08 Apr 2015 20:33:19 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=37004 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 27: Nano Nutrients, Phytoplankton & Healing Oilshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/nano-nutrients-phytoplankton/ Sat, 14 Mar 2015 01:38:52 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=36172 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 26: Fasting for Women & Music Therapyhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/fasting-for-women-music-therapy/ Fri, 06 Mar 2015 22:11:00 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=36021 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 25: Autoimmunity, GMOs & Food as Medicinehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/gmos-food-as-medicine/ Fri, 13 Feb 2015 04:00:02 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=31302 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 24: A Real Food Resourcehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/real-food-resource/ Fri, 02 Jan 2015 23:39:48 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=26251 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 23: The Importance of Bone Brothhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/importance-of-bone-broth/ Mon, 01 Dec 2014 19:39:24 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=25317 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 22: What Is Really In Your Food?https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/food-babe-whats-in-your-food/ Thu, 06 Nov 2014 02:55:50 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=24623 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 21: The Problem with Sitting: A Solutionhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/sitting-solution/ Wed, 15 Oct 2014 03:13:27 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=23884 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 20: Exercise, Movement & Pelvic Floor Healthhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/pelvic-floor-health/ Sun, 05 Oct 2014 03:22:30 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=23739 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 19: The Real Causes of Tooth Decayhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/causes-tooth-decay/ Wed, 17 Sep 2014 22:38:01 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=23492 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 18: Thyroid Health & Autoimmune Diseasehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/thyroid-health-autoimmune-disease/ Tue, 02 Sep 2014 02:25:28 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=22718 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 17: Reversing Infertility & PCOS Naturallyhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/reversing-infertility-pcos/ Fri, 29 Aug 2014 02:37:14 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=22653 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 16: Functional Diagnostic Nutritionhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/functional-diagnostic-nutrition/ Wed, 13 Aug 2014 03:30:48 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=22456 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 15: Hormones & How to Have a Healthy Babyhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/chris-kresser-hormones/ Thu, 31 Jul 2014 04:01:56 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=22325 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 14: Stop the Sugar Madnesshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/stop-sugar-madness/ Thu, 24 Jul 2014 04:19:32 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=20280 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 13: Vitality & Healthy Childrenhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/vitality-healthy-children/ Sat, 12 Jul 2014 02:39:38 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=19543 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 12: Coconut Oil Secret & Natural Remedieshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/coconut-oil-secret-natural-remedies/ Thu, 10 Jul 2014 21:16:17 +0000 Katie Wells http://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podca