The Wellness Mama Podcast https://wellnessmama.com/ The Wellness Mama Podcast is a weekly series covering the topics of holistic health, real food, stress, sleep, fitness, toxins, natural living, DIY, parenting, motherhood, and other health tips to give you actionable solutions to improve your family’s life! Brought to you by Katie Wells of WellnessMama.com Thu, 02 Apr 2020 14:14:44 +0000 en-US Copyright © 2020 Wellness Mama® Simple Answers for Healthier Families Katie Wells episodic The Wellness Mama Podcast is a weekly series covering the topics of holistic health, real food, stress, sleep, fitness, toxins, natural living, DIY, parenting, motherhood, and other health tips to give you actionable solutions to improve your family’s life! Brought to you by Katie Wells of WellnessMama.com Katie Wells - Wellness Mama support@wellnessmama.com clean https://wellnessmama.com/wp-content/uploads/wellness-mama-podcast-logo.jpgThe Wellness Mama Podcasthttps://wellnessmama.com/ https://wordpress.org/?v=5.4 327: Optimizing Gut Health to Keep the Immune System Strong During COVID-19 With Tina Andersonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/covid-19/ Thu, 02 Apr 2020 11:00:47 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=425159

We’re bringing you a bit of a “special edition” episode today by taking some time to really talk about all that is going on in the world with COVID-19. There are practical and evidence-based strategies and supplements that I’m using to focus on gut and immune health right now and to keep my family, hopefully, safe and well.

When I thought about who I should have this conversation with, my friend Tina Anderson immediately came to mind. Tina is an expert in all things gut health, especially since she founded a company that makes my favorite probiotic and IGG supplements (more on that in a minute).

Along with diving into the science on gut health and its importance for a strong and healthy immune system, as moms we brainstorm some stress-reducing strategies and lifestyle hacks that are inexpensive or completely free, and can help us all stay happy and motivated to make the best of our circumstances.

Episode Highlights on COVID-19

  • What we are doing right now for ourselves and our families during coronavirus
  • The connection between gut health and strong natural immunity to germs and viruses
  • Diet and supplement hacks that can boost immune systems
  • What IGG is and why it has a role in fighting COVID
  • How emotions and stress play into our overall wellness
  • Ideas for your daily routine to stay sane, connected, and even happy during isolated or difficult times
  • Tips for families navigating difficult conversations with kids
  • An antidote for stress for adults and kids that is completely free and available even during quarantine
  • Why to consider intermittent fasting right now
  • How we’re finding the silver lining in all this
  • And more!

Resources We Mention

More From Wellness Mama

How has the COVID-19 pandemic affected you? What are you doing to stay healthy and occupied? Please drop a comment below or leave a review on iTunes to let us know. We value knowing what you think and this helps other moms find the podcast as well.

Read Transcript

Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.

This podcast is sponsored by Jigsaw Health, my source for magnesium. You probably know, if you’ve read my blog, that magnesium is responsible for over 300 biochemical reactions in the body. It impacts blood pressure, metabolism, immune function, and many other aspects of health, including hormones. It’s known as the master mineral and it’s one of the few supplements I take regularly. And I have found a specific way to take it that works best for me in very specific forms because if magnesium is taken in the wrong way it can lead to digestive upset or if it’s taken too quickly it can cause all kinds of problems. So, I take two supplements. One called MagSRT which is a slow release form of the dimagnesium malate. The slow release technology makes it easier on the digestive system. So I don’t get any of the digestive disturbance that comes with some forms of magnesium. I take this form in the morning and at lunch. So, two capsules with breakfast, two capsules with lunch. And at night, I take a different product MagSoothe, which is magnesium glycinate which is magnesium bound with the amino acid glycine to help sleep. And in combination, I noticed the biggest effect from those two particular products. You can check them both out and save by going to jigsawhealth.com/wellnessmama. And the code wellness10 will give you $10 off any order.

This podcast is brought to you by Wellnesse, a new company I co-founded to bring the best personal care products from my family to yours. Our whitening toothpaste is based on my DIY formula that I have been making and perfecting for over a decade. Now, after almost 100 rounds of tweaking the formula and thousands of positive reviews, I could not be more proud to share this with your family. Have you ever read a tube of normal toothpaste? I did when my older kids were little, and I found a warning that said, “Warning, keep away from children. Do not swallow. If ingested contact Poison Control or seek medical attention immediately.” That seemed a little extreme for something that I was putting in my mouth and my children’s mouth multiple times a day. And I didn’t want my kids using something that often that I would need to call a poison control center if they accidentally swallowed. I set out to create a truly safe and effective alternative. And the Wellnesse Whitening toothpaste is just that. It’s designed to support the oral microbiome and the natural process of saliva and teeth so that teeth can stay white and strong. This dentist approved formula is safe for the whole family and will leave your teeth shiny and your breath fresh. You can check out our toothpaste and our completely natural hair food hair care products at wellnesse.com. That’s wellnesse.com. An insider tip, if you grab an essentials bundle or try autoship, you will lock in a discount so that you can try everything at a great price.

Katie: Hello, and welcome to the Wellness Mama Podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and wellnesse.com, that’s “wellnesse” with an E on the end. And this special episode is all about some practical and evidence-based strategies and supplements that I’m using to focus on gut and immune health right now and to keep my family, hopefully, safe and well. And I feel like supporting immune health and gut health, that is important all the time, something we can all always improve and it’s really important to do anytime, but especially important right now, which is why I asked my friend Tina Anderson of Just Thrive Health to join me today. And we talk about several products that are backed by scientific studies, including her probiotic which is backed by a double-blind placebo study, and the effects those can have on gut health and what that looks like for supporting the immune system. We also delve into some other immune-supporting strategies that are inexpensive or completely free, and some lifestyle management stuff that we’re both doing to keep our families healthy and happy right now, in the midst of all of this. But I think this episode is packed with a lot of really practical tips, and I hope that it will help you and your family. And without further ado, let’s join Tina.

Tina, welcome. Thanks for joining me again.

Tina: Thanks, Katie. I’m so excited to be here.

Katie: I am so excited to chat with you, and that is one of my silver linings of us both being stuck in homes right now is that I have more time to do things like podcast, which means I get to talk to you today. So, I’m gonna be extremely grateful for that, and I know that that’s your mindset as well is to find the positive. And people have heard me quote you many, many times. You were the origin of my quote that everything will work out perfectly for me. That came from you, so I always have to say that when we’re together or chatting.

But I’m excited today. I think we have a lot to talk about right now just in a very timely way with all of the things that are going on and just how uncertain and a little bit wild everything has gotten in the last few weeks, of course, with the virus and everything else. And I can’t wait to delve into some practical strategies on this and then really go deep on a couple of them. So, to start, I’d love to hear both from your mindset and then on the practical side, what are you doing to support your own system and your family right now?

Tina: Yeah. I think from the mindset is super important, Katie. I mean, that is really the key to this. This is such a scary time for people, and I think we should just shift our focus. You know, you’re right. I talk about gratitude all the time because I think gratitude allows us to shift our focus, and I have been just focusing on how happy I am to have more time with my kids. My one daughter is in college in California, and she’s home with me now. So it’s so wonderful to have her around and having my son…you know, having my kids around and having time and eating dinner together at the table and all that kind of stuff instead of focusing on what’s going on in the news and watching the news. And I’ve been really trying to focus on my mind because it’s scary for all of us, even people like me who really try to look at…you know, shift my focus in that respect.

And one of the biggest things I do is breathwork. I’m a huge fan of doing deep breathing. I do meditate. I don’t meditate as well as I think maybe I should, but I’m really into breathwork, and meditation, exercise, sauna. All of those things are just so key during this time for our mental health as well as our physical health. And then, of course, taking all kinds of supplements, which are super critically important, like the probiotic, IgG, prebiotic, the vitamin C, vitamin D. Trying to get outside as much as possible to get vitamin D and all those kinds of things. Staying really hydrated I think is also really important.

Katie: Absolutely. And, yeah, I think we’re gonna delve into all of those strategies in detail today, and I’m always reminded of…well, first of all, every time I talk to you, I feel like you lift my spirits and you’re just such a good reminder of being grateful and finding the positive. And at times like this, I also think of one of my favorite books is “Man’s Search for Meaning,” and there’s a quote from Viktor Frankl. He said, “Everything can be taken from a man but one thing, the last of human freedoms to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.” And I just keep thinking about that in a time like this because so many of us are told we can’t go anywhere. Like, so much we’re told we cannot do. And that’s what I’ve been reminding my kids and reminding myself is that we still have always the choice to choose to be positive and to be grateful and to be that for others in our life as well.

And also I know we both know Ryan Holiday, and I love all of his books, kind of his modern approach to stoicism. And it’s funny because there’s a Latin quote, “Amor fati,” which means love of fate or basically love what is. And that was kind of my quote for this year. I didn’t quite expect to get such a crash course in it because it’s easy to love your fate when…you know, like a month ago everything is wonderful, and the economy looks like…everything’s going great, and all the kids are healthy, and business is great. And it actually requires a little more work when we’re actually facing hard things, and so that’s been my inner lesson I think. And this is to learn to love even the bad things because there’s a lesson or there’s a silver lining or there’s a good in everything, not just the things that at first glance seem good.

Tina: Yes. Oh, my God, I love that, Katie. That’s exactly the way I try to live my life myself and try to spread that to so many other people. But I know it’s hard when people are struggling and losing jobs and the economic uncertainty. It’s very frightening, but then you’re right. We have the power to control our attitude toward whatever situation that we’re presented with.

Katie: Exactly. And that’s why I love that we started with mindset. I think that’s super important, and I just keep reminding people, too, is every storm runs out of rain, and this too shall pass. And before we move into the health strategies, I also just wanna say like I think our words are so important, and so I’m asking people to consider changing and stop saying social distancing. Maybe say physical distancing, but I think we need emotional and social connection. It makes me sad to see people being afraid of other people, and I know we have to keep our distance, but let’s not social distance let’s just physical distance for now.

Tina: I love that, so true.

Katie: Okay. So let’s talk about the health side now because the reason I wanted to have you on right now specifically is that you have done a lot of research and created amazing products that help gut health. And I know most people understand that the gut has a really important role in our immune system, but I wanna really like…can you walk us through that in detail and explain just how our gut health affects obviously our whole body but our immune health?

Tina: Oh, definitely. Really, this is a time that we should be focusing on our gut health, I mean, if there’s ever a time. I’m actually just so grateful that I’m in the business that I’m in right now because knowing that my kids and my parents and my in-laws and siblings and family members and close friends and our family of customers are taking these products because it is…this is the most critical time to be taking care of our gut health. This is a time that we need to build our resilience.

There is no treatment right now for COVID-19. There’s been nothing to show that there’s a drug or pharmaceutical natural remedy out there to show that we could treat or prevent COVID-19. But what we do know is that we have to count on our own immune system to protect us from this because there is no drug or treatment out there. And our immune system has to be functioning optimally. So all the things we do to be healthy are really important, and the gut plays a really important role in the immune system.

So, about 80% of our immune tissue is in the gut. We started following the recent studies on how the immune system battles this particular virus. There was a study out there that came out of Australia, and we found that the study was showing that there was a proliferation of cells called T cells and B cells that are required to detect and start to fight the virus. And most of that proliferation occurs in the tissues that are found in the gut in the small intestine, and that’s why it’s so critical to be taking care of our gut.

The key is a healthier microbiome because it’s our microbiome that stimulates those tissues to improve the proliferation of the immune cells. So, you know, keep in mind our immune system is our only defense against this virus right now, and 80% of our immune system is in the gut. So if you have a dysfunctional gut, your immune system can be suppressed or confused, or on the flip side, if you have a healthy and a functioning microbiome, your immune system should be working more optimally.

So the virus, this coronavirus does infect the gut as well. We know that, there was a recent study that showed that the virus presented in high levels in fecal matter. So it is replicating in the gut. And actually, there was another study that showed that 53% of the cases of COVID-19 show gastrointestinal symptoms first before even a scratchy throat, like diarrhea, cramping, that type of thing. So, the gut immune system is trying to figure out how to deal with it.

So, our immune system is predominantly in the gut, and the gut drives the functioning and the proliferation of the immune system starting in the gut but then everywhere else in the body as well. So, it becomes a really important part of our defense mechanism, and of course probiotics can help. You know, we show that the strains in Just Thrive actually up-regulates some of the beneficial immune responses in the gut, which then translates to the rest of the body as well.

We also know that the strains, the spores that are found in Just Thrive, also increase the diversity of bacteria in your gut, which is really important for keeping your immune system primed and can help keep down the pathogenic infectious bacteria and compete against them in the gut, which is really important. Because like the last thing we need right now is the overgrowth of any pathogenic bacteria that are producing toxins and increasing inflammation and increasing leaky gut because all of that works against a functioning immune system. So really, really important to keep our gut as strong and healthy as possible during this time because so much of our immune system is found in our gut.

Katie: Yeah. I think that’s such a great point. Again, to focus on what is in our control is we know that there aren’t any direct remedies for this, even medicine that’s directly working, although I know that there are scientists working hard on that. But what we can do, like you said, is to focus on ways to fortify our own system to be able to handle this. And I also always remind people, our immune system was designed to be able to do this. This is why we have an immune system. And so we don’t have to go into complete freak out mode. We just need to find some practical strategies that help our immune system be ready in case. And I think, like you just explained, that this is a really important factor is gut health. Can you talk about… I know you did in your first podcast episode, and I will make sure that’s linked in the show notes. But just give us a primer, again, on the different types of probiotics and why you wanna focus on these particular strains, especially when you’re talking about trying to optimize the gut like this.

Tina: Right. Okay. Yes. So the strains in Just Thrive are considered spore-based probiotics. The majority of other probiotics on the market are made up of Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium type strain. And so the majority of probiotics are made up of these Lactobacillus Bifidobacterium strains are very sensitive organisms generally. They have difficulty surviving in the gastric system.

In fact, you know, many need to be refrigerated to stay alive. So we always wonder like if it needs to be refrigerated to stay alive, then how in the world will it ever survive your body temperature, which is 98.6, let alone the gastric system, which is so acidic and it’s known as the gastric barrier. And the answer is most of those strains never make it to the intestines alive.

One of the first studies that we did as a company was a survivability study. We took the leading selling probiotic sold at a major health food store that had 50 billion count CFU, colony-forming unit, and it showed that 99.99% of the probiotic strains die before they ever got to the intestines. Since then, an independent third-party lab has tested hundreds of different probiotics on the market showing that most of those die, 99.9% of the cells die by the time they get to the intestines.

So really, with a lot of those probiotics, we’re having dead cell therapy, which actually, there are some studies that show that even dead bacteria will provide some symptomatic relief. The difference with the spores that are found in Just Thrive is they have this endospore shell around themselves, and again, this is not something that we have done to…you know, we have not engineered them. These are the way these strains that we got from the environment, they naturally had this endospore shell around themselves, and when they have this shell around themselves, they’re dormant. So it’s not until they hit the intestines that they take the shell off, and they go into their live vegetative cell state.

So when they’re in the capsule, they’re dormant. When they were found in the soil, they were dormant. When they’re in production, they’re dormant. When you swallow them, they’re dormant. When they go through your gastric system, they’re dormant. It’s not ’til they hit the intestines that they take their shell off and they become alive, and that’s where you need a probiotic to be alive is in the intestines.

And then the other big difference is that when they get in the intestines, they actually stay there for about 21 to 28 days where they work. They go in. You know, I love to use this garden analogy, and I think I mentioned it in the first episode is these strains go into the garden, which you compare that to the gut…to the intestines. They go into the garden, and they attach to the soil. They have the ability to get rid of the weeds in the garden, and then they have the ability to bring plants that have been stepped on and trampled on back to life.

So in the gut, they’re attaching to the intestinal cell wall. They have the ability to actually get rid of some pathogenic bacteria, an overgrowth of bacteria. And then they have the ability to actually bring good bacteria. They create compounds and nutrients to bring the good bacteria almost back to life and really make this lush, beautiful, diverse garden in our gut, which is so, so critically important to our overall health.

Katie: Absolutely. I think that distinction is really, really important and especially right now. And I know that there are some other strategies that can go hand-in-hand with that when we’re talking specifically about gut health. Right now I’ve heard a lot of doctors, for instance, mention, remove anything that could be inflammatory right now, so things like sugar or processed food, anything that can cause inflammation. And then the beneficial side is putting those things in the gut to give it chance, like you said, for all of those good things to grow.

Another thing I wanna make sure we talk about, because it’s a new product for you guys, and I haven’t talked about on the podcast yet, but there’s also like potentially a really specific benefit right now is the role of IgG. So, to start broad, can you explain to us what IgG is first of all, and then we’ll go into the supplemental side?

Tina: Sure. Yep. IgG stands for immunoglobulin G, and immunoglobulin G is the most abundant type of antibody found in the body. So, it is the most common antibody that’s found in the body, and its job is to fight antigens, so things like bacteria, viruses, and toxins. So it’s really, really important that we have our IgG, our natural IgG working to fight that…you know, grab on.

So what IgG just does in the body is it binds. So it grabs on to these toxins that are found from, like I said, viruses, bacterial overgrowth, pathogenic bacteria, viruses like mold toxins and different type of environmental toxins, and they bind them. So they grab onto them, and then they neutralize them so they’re not spreading anymore. And then the body safely removes them from the body through defecation. So, IgG is so critical, especially right now in this time.

And so we have developed a product called Ultimate IgG, and so what that does is it allow…it gives our body about 25% more IgG in our body. And the actual formulation that is in our product has been studied in other viral infections. In fact, the way we found out about this ingredient was the work that we did with HIV patients.

We were involved in this consortium with HIV because we know that a lot of people with HIV are…they’re dying from gut enteropathy, not necessarily the viral load. So, when I say gut enteropathy, I’m talking about the leakiness of the gut or the permeability of our gut. So, when we have LPS toxins in our gut, they could seep into the bloodstream, and that becomes very problematic. It also is very problematic for people with HIV.

So, this IgG was actually also studied with different viral infections like HIV, and what those studies show is that the IgG dramatically increases the CD4 T cells. And these CD4 T cells are critical and what helps our adaptive immune response to proliferate. So we want an adaptive immune response. We don’t want an innate immune response. We want an adaptive immune response when we’re dealing with these types of viruses.

So, they also show that the oral IgG binds and neutralizes bacterial toxins, mold toxins, and viral toxins. And there’s no evidence that it’s binding COVID-19, and I’m not suggesting that at all. But there is evidence that it binds other toxins and pathogens, and this brings down that load on our immune systems, and it brings down the toxigenic effect in the body. So it’s a really, really important supportive mechanism.

They’ve done studies on using oral IgG and other viral challenges, not COVID-19, but other viruses. And they actually found that the presence of the oral IgG intake really helps the immune system clear these viral infections faster than when you don’t have oral IgG. So it’s really important. It’s a really supportive mechanism of the immune system and its antiviral component. I mean, basically it’s taking the load off the immune system. The best way to look at it is like if we’re taking…you know, reducing the amount of bad guys, and so now we have more of our natural immune system to be fighting what it needs to fight. So more tools in our immune system is basically what it does.

And, you know, you had talked about inflammation, and I think it’s really important to talk about the role of LPS, which I think I may have talked about briefly. LPS just stands for lipopolysaccharides. It’s an endotoxin that’s primarily found in our gut, which is not really that problematic when it’s in the gut. It’s when it seeps into the bloodstream that our immune system has this like inflammatory response to it. And we did a double-blind human clinical trial on leaky gut. It was published back in 2017, and that study actually showed that using the spore-based bacteria, we could actually reduce the amount of LPS leaking into the bloodstream.

You know, and not only is the constant leaking of LPS in the bloodstream causing low-grade inflammation and is the driver of most chronic condition, it’s also increasing the expression of target receptors of COVID-19 and other types of viruses. So, the more LPS you have in your circulation just is a major risk factor for the majority of chronic illnesses, but it also becomes even more important now because LPS in your circulatory system will up-regulate the expression of these target receptors of COVID-19 and other types of viruses. So, we really wanna make sure that we’re sealing up that gut lining.

And both the spores have been shown in double-blind clinical trial to actually help create proteins to seal up the tight junctions to make the gut lining stronger. But IgG has also shown to really be supportive of a much stronger gut barrier function. So, the combination is really…like I said, I’m just so grateful that my kids are taking it, my parents are taking it, my in-laws. You know, all my family and our family of customers are taking it because I feel like we are really helping change the world right now in this pandemic that we’re in because we’re helping people really support their immune system.

Katie: Yeah. And it’s so helpful just to have the tools and to know you can do something that’s gonna help your body in case you do get the virus just to have stronger immune health in general. And on the note of IgG, I think people might be familiar with that term if they’ve had, for instance, like food sensitivity testing or something like that because IgG is basically a marker as well in the body from what I understand that can…like, for instance, when I do IgG testing, it shows an allergy to eggs or an intolerance. So I can’t eat eggs. Can you explain like how all those pieces fit together?

Tina: Yeah. It’s a little different. I mean, it’s the same thing. It’s showing how our antibodies are responding to an infection. So, in fact, that study I mentioned in Australia, what that study showed is that there was a 47-year-old woman who was to develop COVID-19, and they were testing her blood. They were closely monitoring her, and they found that her IgG and her IgM levels were heightened when the symptoms started to go away, so when the COVID-19 symptoms started to go away.

So it’s telling us that it’s the IgG and the IgM that are actually fighting this particular virus, which is really interesting. It’s a different mechanism than when we’re looking at…I mean, we just know that the IgG is actually fighting…you know, grabbing on to these particular antigens and pathogens that are going on in our body right now.

Katie: Got it. Okay. That makes sense. And so I think that’s important to understand is that this is something that we have in the body, and you said it’s the most abundant one. I know there are also ones like IgM and IgA, but like you said, so IgG is the one that’s gonna be most involved in this fighting off infection in the body and our ability to withstand that kind of thing, right?

Tina: Right. It’s most in demand in the body, and it’s the most common immunoglobulin antibody in the body.

Katie: Got it. And I think it’s also important to highlight that like you said in the HIV patients in the study there that people weren’t actually dying of the virus itself. They were dying of the effects of it like in the gut endotoxins, and that appears to be what we’re seeing in a lot of cases with COVID is that people aren’t dying of the virus itself. They’re dying of, for instance, sepsis or secondary things. And so anything we can do to fortify the body to be able to better handle all of those things I think is just super important right now.

Tina: Yeah. I could not agree more. I mean, all of these things like the vitamin C is super important, but supporting your gut barrier is really so, so critical to making…we want our immune system to be functioning optimally right now, and that can’t be stressed enough. And we know that the immune system is primarily in the gut tissue. So it’s really, really important.

Katie: Absolutely. I know I will put links in the show notes at wellnessmama.fm to both the IgG and the probiotic as well as to some of the research that I know you guys have and that you…and some of the educational articles on your site so people can continue to delve into that. Like you said, I think we’re gonna continue to see research on this, and especially when it comes to COVID-19, we’re still very new in what we know and what we don’t know, but to be able to have some practical strategies that we can implement right now is so helpful.

And on that note, I wanna also talk about like other supportive strategies that you’re doing with your family. I think we probably have a lot of overlap in the approach we’re taking. You mentioned, and I know this is gonna be a big one for both of us but just spending as much time as possible outside. The research I’m seeing is we know not from specific studies on COVID-19, but we know from studies on respiratory issues, to begin with, any kind of respiratory illness, that vitamin D is super protective. And we know across the board that having optimized vitamin D levels, for instance, help you be able to better handle almost every type of illness, and so that is another strategy. Thankfully, it’s getting sunny in a lot of places but another strategy that we can all implement. I know I’m trying to spend as much time as possible outside right now, and I’m guessing you are, too. But let’s talk about like sunlight and vitamin D and time outside.

Tina: Oh, yeah, I could not agree with you more, Katie. I mean, even if you’re in cold climates, it’s so important to get outside. For mental health as well as our physical health, we know we need vitamin D to help support our immune system as well. You know, I’ve been trying to spend as much time outside going on walks, sweating. I’ve really been trying to sweat. I’m fortunate enough to have a sauna in my house like you. It’s so important to be getting that sweat, too. But I mean, even if you don’t have a sauna, going out and running and sweating and getting your body heated up, which of course helps combat, too.

I mean, the studies are showing now that the virus doesn’t like heat. So that’s a good sign. But we’ve been going outside, going on bike rides, going on walks. I think that’s another gift in this whole thing. I’ve seen so many more people outside on bike rides, even in the colder weather, and just walking as a family and spending time outside playing basketball outside, you know, just with the family and doing different things like that. There are so many gifts in this time. It’s unbelievable. I know there are a lot of sad stories, too, but there are so many gifts. I’m spending more time with the kids and being outside together and going on bike rides and things like that.

Katie: Yeah. I absolutely agree. I know school being deferred or canceled has been a big change for a lot of families certainly, and I know a lot of moms maybe weren’t quite ready for summer to start in the middle of March. But the silver lining of it, like you said, is you get time with your kids, especially with older kids, like you wouldn’t have probably gotten to spend so much quality time with them at this point in the year if they were still in school right now.

Tina: Yeah, absolutely. Yes. You are so right. My daughter is in college in California, and she came home, and so it’s just so wonderful to have her home with all of us and just to be together as a family. I feel so blessed to have that extra time and not be running. That’s the thing, running from practice to practice and game to game. It’s been really nice to have this time together.

Katie: Yeah. Exactly. I hope that we can all look back sooner than later and realize that this was a great time of bonding and getting to focus on the really important things like time with family. Again, I’m hoping this will pass relatively quickly. We’ll see. Time will tell. But I hope that we can all one day…

Tina: Yes, me too.

Katie: …look back and have positive memories and have found the good in it, and certainly be interesting to see what our kids look back and say, too.

Tina: Right. I think it’s so fun seeing the kids become so creative to do different things. You know, I just think it’s been a great challenge for them also. I’m not saying it’s not hard, and I agree. I hope it passes sooner rather than later, but just seeing them cooking together and being more creative and doing different things. My kids are older, but I mean, even like some friends you see on Facebook and Instagram doing different fun things with their families and cooking. And the memes have been hysterical. I mean, I have never laughed so hard with some of the memes out there. My mom and I keep sending things back and forth to each other. We have so many different group chats. We did a huge family group FaceTime with both my husband’s side of the family and my side of the family. They were like 20 of us. No one could hear anything, but we just laughed the whole time. So, it’s been a time to really laugh and enjoy and have time for humor.

Katie: Absolutely. And I figure like it’s one of those things like I’m gonna try to learn. I know your kids are on TikTok. I need to learn TikTok. Like all these things I would never have ever thought to do otherwise.

Tina: Oh, my God, that’s fortunate. That’s all they’re doing is doing more TikTok. That’s hysterical. I know. I couldn’t agree more.

Katie: Yeah. I agree. The memes are funny, and I think it’s also important to think of like this is such a rare thing that we truly are all in this together, not even just the U.S., but we are globally in this together. And so, I know that we’re all isolated but at the same time like we’re in something together. And if we can build the community out of this and use this time to nurture relationships and to make them stronger, I think we can, on the other side of this hopefully all emerge stronger and better and more connected. That’s my hope.

Tina: Absolutely. I mean, I see it already. I feel like I’m making more calls to people I’ve been out of touch with and just touching base with people that time didn’t allow me before to do that. So, it’s very, very true. And there’s so many cool learning. I think parents are learning all these different learning tools out there. There are so many online sources, and I think people are starting to realize that they could take a bigger role in their child’s learning. That’s pretty cool, too.

Katie: Yeah. It’ll be really interesting to see the lasting changes in the education system that come from this. And what I’ve been encouraging my kids to do…because I think boredom is the big struggle for kids especially as we all adjust to like, “How do you keep everyone busy when we’re all in the same house?” And so what I’ve been encouraging my kids to do is I’m like, “We have literally the entirety of information, human information available at your fingertips through the internet. So how are you gonna use this hopefully only in next couple of weeks but maybe months to improve yourself?”

And so I’ve even, since we do homeschool, been letting them negotiate. I’m like, “Come to me with a proposal and tell me how you’re gonna improve yourself in the next two months and what skills are you gonna learn. Let’s make this a time of like building and improving and not just thinking of all the bad that’s gonna happen.” And so we are collectively learning Japanese. I’ve got kids learning harmonica and piano. One is learning how to do a backflip, which I might die of heart fright from watching her, but she, I have no doubt, will get it. And so that’s my other encouragement to moms is like let it be fun. Let it be a game. And like how can we all improve ourselves. I’m finally doing some exercise classes much more regularly because I’m home and have time to do them.

Tina: Right. Me too. Right. Exactly.

Katie: Yeah. So the other thing we can talk about both from the mom perspective and the health side is the importance of a daily routine in general but also like an immune-supporting daily routine right now. And so like I’ll share some things that I think are helpful and you can build on them. I’ve mentioned it before, but I am a big fan of light. Not just for the vitamin D, I think that’s super important as well. But I’ve always encouraged people, and I try to everyday go outside really soon after waking up and get natural light as soon as possible after waking up, and that also is important for immune health and hormone health and so many other things because that light signals the whole circadian cascade. And so that’s something simple and free that we can all do is just get light as soon as possible after waking up.

Also, I’ve been tightening up my fasting regimen right now just in the name of supporting immune health. What I’ve been reading from the researchers on this like Dr. Peter Attia. He’s saying we don’t know if long water fasts are good right now because we just don’t have any research on that, and there’s a chance they could…like during a long fast, you might temporarily suppress the immune system. So they’re not recommending long fasts, but they are recommending kind of what they call circadian fasting, which is just eating in a shorter window during the day, whatever window that ends up being for you, and then just not eating after dark. And that’s another signaling mechanism because food is part of that circadian biology.

And so basically like we started talking about from the very beginning of this episode like what are some ways that we can work in harmony with our circadian biology and with our biology to support the immune system naturally and to support hormone health naturally and just to optimize every factor. So, those are a couple I’m doing. I’m also making sure we all take obviously probiotics and IgG and then also vitamin D and vitamin C and get movement every day. How has your routine changed since we have all become homebound?

Tina: Yeah. I wanna piggyback on that fasting because I really am so glad you mentioned that because that…I recently over the last year or so I’ve been practicing intermittent fasting, and I cannot stress how important that is enough right now because we know…from the leaky gut study that we did, it showed us that every time we eat, it causes…especially if we have a leaky gut, which a lot of people…they’re estimating 80% of the adult population has a leaky gut. It causes this inflammatory response. I mean, of course, we all have to eat. So I’m not suggesting that we don’t eat, but I think limiting the time is really, really critical to be supporting our immune system because we don’t want that inflammatory response on a regular basis. And we wanna make sure we’re tightening up the gut barrier and all of that and the leakiness of the gut.

But I agree with the fasting. I agree with getting outside like we talked about. And the breathwork with the sleep is so important. I’m so glad you brought that up because I was just on another podcast the other day, and I kept talking about how important that is. And I think it’s really hard right now with the kids not being on a regular schedule to allow them to sleep in, and yet that’s probably one of the worst things that we…

We want them to get enough sleep, but we don’t want them to be messing around with their circadian rhythm and their sleep cycles that they’re accustomed to because that’s not really great for their immune system either. So, I would definitely agree with you on that about the sleep for sure. I’ve been working out like crazy, too.

Just the sweating alone is just I think really important doing a lot of working out. I don’t think like really hard, hard strenuous workout is good either because that could cause too much stress on the body, too. You know, working out and getting a sweat going I think is really important, and like I mentioned, the breathwork.

I mean, I agree we need to stay away from sugar, and I’ve been really trying to do that as well. It’s really hard right now with the kids because they’re home, and it’s like, “Oh, let’s treat ourselves,” and trying to stay away from alcohol, but I’m always so grateful for Dry Farm Wines that they don’t have sugar in their wines. So, during this time it’s been really nice. I’m like, “Make sure we don’t run out of our Dry Farm Wines,” and I know you’re a big fan, too.

Katie: Yeah. Definitely shout out to Todd, and also just they have been a light and an inspiration during this whole thing as well. Even separate of the wine, I know the emails I’m getting from them they’re…even though they can’t all come together as a team, they’re doing group meditation and grateful practice every single day via the internet via Zoom, and they’re still making that a priority. And they have even been like letting other people join them and just trying to encourage everyone to keep the focus on gratitude even during the hard time. And thankfully, they were declared an essential activity, and so mine is still available. I think a lot of moms right now might agree that wine is an essential.

Tina: Yes. Exactly. And thank God for Dry Farm, exactly. And then, obviously, I’ve been taking lots of vitamin C. So, that’s been great, and of course, I love Paleovalley vitamin C. I think you’re a fan, too, so just lots of great…there’s so many great things out there that could help us just get through this time for sure, so many great supplements, so many great tools that you just talked about. I think we’re very fortunate to have all those tools in our toolbox.

Katie: I agree, and I’ll make sure, like I said, that everything is linked in the show notes, and if you guys are listening, I’ll also put swipe up links to these things on Instagram, so you can find them.

This podcast is brought to you by Wellnesse, a new company I co-founded to bring the best personal care products from my family to yours. Our whitening toothpaste is based on my DIY formula that I have been making and perfecting for over a decade. Now, after almost 100 rounds of tweaking the formula and thousands of positive reviews, I could not be more proud to share this with your family. Have you ever read a tube of normal toothpaste? I did when my older kids were little, and I found a warning that said, “Warning, keep away from children. Do not swallow. If ingested contact Poison Control or seek medical attention immediately.” That seemed a little extreme for something that I was putting in my mouth and my children’s mouth multiple times a day. And I didn’t want my kids using something that often that I would need to call a poison control center if they accidentally swallowed. I set out to create a truly safe and effective alternative. And the Wellnesse Whitening toothpaste is just that. It’s designed to support the oral microbiome and the natural process of saliva and teeth so that teeth can stay white and strong. This dentist approved formula is safe for the whole family and will leave your teeth shiny and your breath fresh. You can check out our toothpaste and our completely natural hair food hair care products at wellnesse.com. That’s wellnesse.com. An insider tip, if you grab an essentials bundle or try autoship, you will lock in a discount so that you can try everything at a great price.

This podcast is sponsored by Jigsaw Health, my source for magnesium. You probably know, if you’ve read my blog, that magnesium is responsible for over 300 biochemical reactions in the body. It impacts blood pressure, metabolism, immune function, and many other aspects of health, including hormones. It’s known as the master mineral and it’s one of the few supplements I take regularly. And I have found a specific way to take it that works best for me in very specific forms because if magnesium is taken in the wrong way it can lead to digestive upset or if it’s taken too quickly it can cause all kinds of problems. So, I take two supplements. One called MagSRT which is a slow release form of the dimagnesium malate. The slow release technology makes it easier on the digestive system. So I don’t get any of the digestive disturbance that comes with some forms of magnesium. I take this form in the morning and at lunch. So, two capsules with breakfast, two capsules with lunch. And at night, I take a different product MagSoothe, which is magnesium glycinate which is magnesium bound with the amino acid glycine to help sleep. And in combination, I noticed the biggest effect from those two particular products. You can check them both out and save by going to jigsawhealth.com/wellnessmama. And the code wellness10 will give you $10 off any order.

I know as a lot of supplements and supplies are selling out everywhere, are you guys still in stock of these? Can people still get them?

Tina: Yes. Thank goodness, we just got a huge shipment in like two days ago actually, and so we’re really fortunate because it has been selling like crazy. It’s unbelievable how quickly it’s been selling, especially the IgG and the probiotic, of course, is always a top seller for us, but the IgG is just going crazy because we keep hearing about it.

You know, you listen to the press briefings, the White House press briefings, and you always hear the doctors talking about the IgG and your IgM and your IgG, and so I think people are starting to understand, “Wait, I need to pay attention to what IgGs do in the body.” So, yeah, that’s been selling like crazy. So, right now we do. So hopefully, it’ll stay that way so we could get it out to as many people as possible. We actually did start putting a limit on orders because we just don’t want to have a hoarding situation either because that was happening in the beginning, too.

Katie: Got it. Yeah. And that’s another thing to speak to from, like just the mom side through all this is I know there’s all kinds of encouragement online to please not hoard and only take what we actually need right now but just to reiterate that and also to be supportive. I know like I’ve been texting people that live near us and just checking in like, “Do you guys need anything? Can I leave anything on your porch?” You know, like I think that aspect of community is really important as things do stock out, which is really sad to see, and especially I know there’s even some elderly people in our area that weren’t able to get things like toilet paper because people were hoarding it. And so I also just encourage people like check in. I know we can’t like physically check in, but check in with people near you and see how you can support and build community. And I think like if we all focus on that. Hopefully, this thing will end soon, but if not, we’re all gonna get through it better than we entered hopefully.

Tina: Absolutely. And, yes, that’s I think another…I’m glad you brought that up, too. Just helping everybody in the neighborhood and community has been great, and I think it’s been great for the kids, too. And I think that’s another great thing to do for the kids is getting them involved in that, and maybe riding their bikes and bringing over a couple rolls of toilet paper to the elderly and other people in the community that are immunocompromised and shouldn’t be going to the store at all either.

So, I agree. Another gift is to show the kids how to give back because I think kids are so focused on their activities, and we have to go to this practice and this practice, and we’ve got homework and do this. It’s like this is a time to allow them to give back more than they maybe had time to otherwise.

Katie: Yeah, such a good perspective. Okay. So on a practical level just dosage wise. I know that neither of us are doctors, and we’re not trying to give medical advice. Although, for anyone listening, I know telemedicine is what they’re saying is the option right now. Like, don’t go anywhere unless you absolutely have to medically. So I will put a link to SteadyMD, which is my form of concierge telemedicine that I use with our family. So, if you do need to talk to a medical professional, I’ll put that link in the show notes at wellnessmama.fm. But without giving medical advice, Tina, I’m curious, like just walk us through what dosing you’re taking of all the different products right now to support your immune system.

Tina: Okay. Sure. So the probiotic I take normally I would take one a day. During this time, I’m taking two a day, and when we say two a day, I take two at the same time, and you always take it after a meal. That’s what I always do. But, you know, one or two a day is so, so important, and even if you took a half of the capsule every day or one capsule every other day, you are in such a better shape than somebody that’s not getting these spores in them. So I would definitely recommend doing that.

The IgG is probably my next priority. I take four of those a day. The normal dosage is four a day. The only reason I have my parents, my in-laws taking more than that because I just really wanna make sure that they are totally supported because they are saying it’s affecting the elderly a little bit more. Not that I consider any of them elderly because they feel so young, but they meet the age criteria, so four a day for most people.

You could take up to 10 a day because the study that was done on the ingredients actually was 5 grams, 4 capsules of our product is 2 grams. So anyway, you could take up to 10 capsules, but I usually take 4 a day. I take a scoop full of our prebiotic. Of course, the prebiotic is so, so important because it’s helping feed our good bacteria in our gut. So, I do that.

And then I take vitamin C. I take like four or five of the Paleovalley vitamin C. I’m taking about 30,000 IUs of the vitamin D but mostly trying to get outside trying to do that. What else am I doing for… I have so many supplements, Katie. You could only imagine, and, of course, our vitamin K2 I’m taking. Because when you’re taking vitamin D, you need to take the vitamin K2.

Oh, our Gluten Away product. That’s the other thing, Gluten Away. I mean, we don’t need to get into that. We could do a whole other episode. But that’s really important because when we’re eating gluten, there’s a study that show that everyone that eats gluten, even if you don’t have any outward symptoms of gluten intolerance, it is still showing this inflammatory response. So, I’m trying to take gluten away before I eat so it could help protect a little bit of that. It’s not a replacement for a gluten-free diet and that we could talk about that later. Mostly the probiotic, the IgG are a number one priority, our prebiotic K2 vitamin. And then vitamin C is also probably number three priority and vitamin D. That’s about it. I know I’m taking more, but I can’t really remember them all.

Katie: Yeah. I’m in a very similar protocol, and I’ll type that out and put it in the show notes so you guys can find all of those things directly. But I think as we like get close to wrapping up, it’s important to reiterate where we started, which is like do all of these things physically to support yourself and your immune system and get sleep and sweat and take supplements. But also at the end of the day, mindset is huge as well, especially for either moms listening, like our mindset so often affects the whole family. It like kind of has a ripple effect, and so to the degree that we can stay positive and grateful and all of those things, that will help our kids navigate this as well, and just to focus on the blessings that are hidden in this in the family time and the ability to for those of us who are home have more time to focus on things and projects and stuff that we’ve been waiting to do.

Tina: Yeah. I could not agree more. The mindset is so important, Katie. And the one thing I forgot to mention is affirmations and just saying that. You know, being careful, like you said, with your words, the words that you use but saying things like, “I am perfect health. I am health. I am in perfect health or I am healthy,” or whatever it is that you wanna say, but saying those things out loud. And it’s not that they miraculously happen. It’s that you’re putting that out there to the world, and then you make choices that will support a healthy lifestyle. So I think, you know, saying affirmations and having that positive mindset is so, so critical to your immune health, is so critical.

Katie: I agree. And like I said, links to everything will be in the show notes at wellnessmama.fm. So if you guys are hopefully maybe in the sunshine exercising while you’re listening to this, you can find all of the links there. And you guys leave comments in the show notes, and both of us will answer questions. I know we both wanna be to whatever degree we can be remotely a source of support for any of you guys, and I think the community is so, so important right now. And I’m so grateful for the “Wellness Mama” community and, Tina, for you and for your family and for everyone spreading positivity and being a source of support right now.

Tina: Well, thank you, Katie. I’m so grateful for you and for the platform that you have for people and listeners. You are an amazing human being. So thank you.

Katie: Well, thank you. And thanks to all of you for listening, for sharing your most valuable asset, your time with us today. We’re both so grateful that you were here, and I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the “Wellness Mama Podcast.” And I hope that soon it will be with all of us not in isolation, but stay positive and stay grateful and stay well.

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.

Thanks to Our Sponsors

This podcast is sponsored by Jigsaw Health, my source for magnesium. You probably know, if you’ve read my blog, that magnesium is responsible for over 300 biochemical reactions in the body. It impacts blood pressure, metabolism, immune function, and many other aspects of health, including hormones. It’s known as the master mineral and it’s one of the few supplements I take regularly. And I have found a specific way to take it that works best for me in very specific forms because if magnesium is taken in the wrong way it can lead to digestive upset or if it’s taken too quickly it can cause all kinds of problems. So, I take two supplements. One called MagSRT which is a slow release form of the dimagnesium malate. The slow release technology makes it easier on the digestive system. So I don’t get any of the digestive disturbance that comes with some forms of magnesium. I take this form in the morning and at lunch. So, two capsules with breakfast, two capsules with lunch. And at night, I take a different product MagSoothe, which is magnesium glycinate which is magnesium bound with the amino acid glycine to help sleep. And in combination, I noticed the biggest effect from those two particular products. You can check them both out and save by going to jigsawhealth.com/wellnessmama. And the code wellness10 will give you $10 off any order.

This podcast is brought to you by Wellnesse, a new company I co-founded to bring the best personal care products from my family to yours. Our whitening toothpaste is based on my DIY formula that I have been making and perfecting for over a decade. Now, after almost 100 rounds of tweaking the formula and thousands of positive reviews, I could not be more proud to share this with your family. Have you ever read a tube of normal toothpaste? I did when my older kids were little, and I found a warning that said, “Warning, keep away from children. Do not swallow. If ingested contact Poison Control or seek medical attention immediately.” That seemed a little extreme for something that I was putting in my mouth and my children’s mouth multiple times a day. And I didn’t want my kids using something that often that I would need to call a poison control center if they accidentally swallowed. I set out to create a truly safe and effective alternative. And the Wellnesse Whitening toothpaste is just that. It’s designed to support the oral microbiome and the natural process of saliva and teeth so that teeth can stay white and strong. This dentist approved formula is safe for the whole family and will leave your teeth shiny and your breath fresh. You can check out our toothpaste and our completely natural hair food hair care products at wellnesse.com. An insider tip, if you grab an essentials bundle or try autoship, you will lock in a discount so that you can try everything at a great price.

]]>
clean no 00:49:52 Katie Wells
326: The Catastrophic Consequences of Sitting Too Much and What to Do About It With Dr. Turner Oslerhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/turner-osler/ Mon, 30 Mar 2020 11:00:39 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=424891

The average American spends 8 hours a day sitting… just let that sink in…

If there’s anything we spend that much time doing, we should be sure we know what it’s doing to our bodies! Dr. Turner Osler, a retired academic trauma surgeon turned research epidemiologist, who has published over 300 peer-reviewed medical papers, is here with some really fascinating, easy to implement, and practical tips that can benefit posture, core strength, and even sensory and attention issues in kids.

As a physician who suffered from the tyranny of conventional chairs for most of his life, his quest for a healthier way to sit led him to develop the RedRocker, which is a new geometric solid kind of a device, the Eccentric Bicylinder, and also these active seating products that we’re gonna talk about today, including one that can be used for kids and adults called ButtOn Chairs.

The best part is, Dr. Turner has created a solution to these problems as an open-source project so that you can make it at, essentially, almost no cost at home!

Episode Highlights With Dr. Turner Osler

  • Whether sitting really is the new smoking
  • The number of Americans that deal with back pain
  • His take on standing desks (not what you would think!)
  • The physical and psychological effects of not moving (especially for kids)
  • How the brain is hardwired to the body and vice versa
  • Why Dr. Turner makes his chair free to make (the reason is awesome)
  • How the way you sit could cause or prevent a heart attack
  • Changes to make to your workspace or home office
  • And more!

Resources We Mention

More From Wellness Mama

Do you have a desk job? What kind of chair do you use? Do you struggle with posture or joint pain? Please drop a comment below or leave a review on iTunes to let us know. We value knowing what you think and this helps other moms find the podcast as well.

Read Transcript

Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.

This podcast is brought to you by Wellnesse, a new company I co-founded to tackle the toughest personal care products and create natural and safe products that work as well as conventional alternatives. I realized that even the most natural of my friends still used conventional toothpaste and shampoo because they weren’t willing to sacrifice quality. There are natural options and ones that work but find products that do both was almost impossible. We tackled the toughest first, creating the first and only natural toothpaste that is fluoride and glycerin free, and that has calcium and hydroxyapatite to uniquely support the mineral balance in the mouth. It also contains neem oil and green tea to support a healthy bacterial balance in the mouth and fight bad breath. Be the first to try it and our innovative natural hair care at wellnesse.com

This podcast is sponsored by The Ready State. If you’re at all like me, you might have perpetual stiffness and pain in your neck and shoulders from years of working, carrying kids and all of the demands of parenting. Or sore hips from too much sitting or multiple pregnancies. I found a great way to relieve my aches and pains and improve my fitness and flexibility. It’s from someone I highly respect… Dr. Kelly Starrett at The Ready State. If you don’t know Kelly, he’s a Mobility and movement coach for Olympic gold medalists, world champions, and pro athletes. He’s the Author of two New York Times bestselling books, including “Becoming a Supple Leopard”, which has sold over half a million copies. He has over 150,000 hours of hands-on experience training athletes at the highest levels. A Doctor of Physical Therapy who helps top companies, military organizations, and universities improve the wellness and resilience of their team members. He created a program called Virtual Mobility Coach. This program is easy to do from home each day, making it ideal for me, and for most moms. And I can do with my kids. Every day, Virtual Mobility Coach gives you fresh, guided video exercises. They show you proven techniques to take care of your body, relieve pain, and improve flexibility. And you can customize your videos in three ways. If you’re in pain, you can pull up a picture of the human body and click on what hurts. And from there, Virtual Mobility Coach will give you a customized pain prescription to help you find relief. Second, you can find a library of soothing recovery routines in the daily maintenance section. They’re a great way to wind-down and practice self-care from the comfort of your home. And third, for athletes, Virtual Mobility Coach also has an entire section of pre- and post-exercise routines for more than four dozen sports and activities. They help you warm-up before your workout so you can perform your best with a lower risk of injury. Right now, you can try Virtual Mobility Coach totally risk-free for two weeks without paying a penny. And after that, you can get 50% off your first three months. Just go to thereadystate.com/wellnessmama and use code WELLNESSMAMA50 at checkout. That’s half-off your first three months when you sign up for a monthly plan. And you’ll get personalized techniques to relieve nagging pain and improve your fitness and flexibility.

Katie: Hello, and welcome to the Wellness Mama Podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com, and this episode has some really fascinating, easy to implement, practical tips that can benefit posture, core strength, even sensory issues, and attention and focus in kids, and lower back pain in adults. And the best part is, today’s guest has created a solution to these problems that he is sharing as an open-source project so that you can make it at, essentially, almost no cost at home.

I’m here with Dr. Turner Osler, who’s the CEO and Founder of QOR360. He’s a retired academic trauma surgeon turned research epidemiologist, who has published over 300 peer-reviewed medical papers and book chapters. He definitely knows this topic. As a physician who suffered from the tyranny of conventional chairs for most of his life, his quest for a healthier way to sit led him to develop the RedRocker, which is a new geometric solid kind of a device, the Eccentric Bicylinder, and also these active seating products that we’re gonna talk about today, including one that can be used for kids and adults called ButtOn Chairs.

So, without further ado, I know that you’re gonna really enjoy this episode. And I hope that, as parents and those of us that are also educators, we can start implementing some of his practical solutions in our day-to-day lives. So let’s join Dr. Turner Osler.

Dr. Osler, welcome. Thanks for being here.

Dr. Osler: Well, I’m delighted to be here, Katie.

Katie: Well, I am so excited to go deep on a topic that I think is really, really important today and I know that you think it’s super important as well. And to jump in, I think let’s start broad and then kind of narrow down. So we’ve all probably heard that, you know, sitting is the new smoking and there’s all these things about why we shouldn’t be sitting as much and certainly, as Americans at least, we tend to sit more than we should. But explain to us from your really vast knowledge base on this topic, what is the science of sitting when it comes to this and is it as bad as we think?

Dr. Osler: Well, you know, it’s not just as bad as we think, it’s probably worse. The catchphrase these days is sitting is the new smoking, which is truer than you might think. I mean, it’s a pretty exact analogy. For most of the 20th century, people thought smoking was normal because everybody smoked and how could it be a problem? Now, even physicians were kind of sucked into thinking smoking was kind of a normal human activity. And it wasn’t until, you know, the spell was broken by research and statistical analysis that showed that smoking was terrible for people, not only causes lung cancer but emphysema and heart disease, and was the leading cause of amputation, you know, second after diabetes.

So now, smoking was a catastrophe for humans that was just hiding in plain sight. People couldn’t see it because they thought it was normal. Fortunately, we’ve gotten beyond the whole smoking catastrophe, but now it turns out that sitting is really bad for people. But it’s the same story again. You know, people think sitting is what everyone does because chairs are everywhere and people spend most of their day sitting. So how could it be a problem because it just seems normal?

Katie: Yeah, exactly. Well, and I think, I don’t remember the exact statistics off the top of my head, but especially for Americans, sitting is very much the norm and it’s kind of really drastic and scary how sedentary we are as a population.

Dr. Osler: Right. And it’s huge. The average American spends eight hours a day sitting, you know, how is that even possible? Well, you know, breakfast, lunch, dinner, the car on the way to work, you know, sitting at the PC at work, sitting at the PC at home watching…and it’s bedtime. People spend most of their waking hours sitting. But sitting is a profoundly unnatural thing for our species that for the last three million years were hunter-gatherers. You know, we were out chasing rabbits and running from jackals. When we all suddenly sat down about 100 years ago, you know, it was a vast science fair project. It’s really gone very badly for us.

You know, we have these increased rates of obesity and hypertension and diabetes and heart disease. The business of sitting in a sedentary way has catastrophic consequences for people’s health and wellbeing. But because it kind of crept up on us, we’re only just now being able to see the horror of the situation through the clear lens of medical research and epidemiology.

Katie: Yeah, exactly. And I think that’s an important point to underline. Like you mentioned up to eight hours a day, which is a lot of time to sit. And what was interesting about this, I think this is also a thing that at least a lot of us as Americans tend to do is like, okay, well then we should just counteract that by moving, like let’s do as much movement as possible in a short amount of time, like exercise. And of course, I’m not gonna downplay the importance of regular exercise. It is very, very important. But I think there’s a misconception that we can undo the damage of sitting just by going to the gym every day.

Dr. Osler: Right. And that came as a surprise to even epidemiologists because, you know, it seems logical that, you know, if sitting is bad then moving is good and if you get a whole lot of moving in in a hurry, that would be terrific. But it turns out that doing cardio at the gym is good and, you know, an hour of panting and sweating is terrific for your vascular system. But the real downside of sitting is that the mere act of being sedentary takes a toll on us and that toll is not undone by going to the gym and exercising vigorously. You know, it’s counterintuitive, but it’s very clear in the epidemiologic research that it is sitting still per se that is the problem.

Katie: Yeah, exactly. I don’t remember the exact number of the statistics, but I know that when they did the research, it was really surprising because all these people who worked out regularly and they met all these exercise standards for how often they should be working out and it was more than four days a week and it was the recommended amount of time and they met all these guidelines and still, compared to the control, it wasn’t actually much better because it turns out it you need more than just an hour even of active movement per day. Basically, this is something that we need to incorporate into our lives. And the other reaction that happens when, you know, sitting became the new smoking, there was this, okay, so let’s just all get standing desks and we’ll stand all day long and we’ll just do that instead. And I know you can speak to this much better than I could, but it turns out just standing isn’t the answer either, is it?

Dr. Osler: Yeah, no. So standing desks, you know, kind of took off, really without any research behind them, because it seemed like such an obvious answer, you know, if sitting is bad then standing must be good because standing is the opposite of sitting, right? Well, it turns out that’s not right. You know, standing may be the linguistic opposite of sitting, but it’s not the physiologic opposite of sitting. The physiologic opposite of sitting still is moving. And when you look at people at standing desks, you know, typically they’re not doing Tai Chi. You know, they lock a hip and they lean on the desk and they’re there just as immobile as they ever were sitting slumped in a chair. Arguably, it’s worse to be at a standing desk for a couple of reasons. One is that when you’re standing, you have this column of blood that goes from your left atrium down to your ankle that dilates all the veins in your legs. And this sets people up for varicose veins, which in the last century were a huge problem for people who stood all day on assembly lines.

I know I have personal experience with this because as a general surgeon, I was like, you know, stripping out miles of saphenous veins from people who had ruined the venous nerve system in their legs. And, you know, it was beyond the reconstruction and just had to be removed with big, ugly operations. And I think we’re gonna be seeing varicose veins and surgery for varicose veins coming back if standing desks really catch on. So that’s one problem with standing desks is it’s hard on people’s veins. You know, you can walk and your muscles are contracting your legs and squeezing blood out of the veins and things are fine. But if you stand still, the blood pools in the veins of your legs and stretches them and over, you know, years and decades can stretch them past the point where they can recover and now you need an operation.

But an even more concerning thing that was published in the “American Journal of Epidemiology” in 2018 by Smith et. al., they followed 7,300 people for 10 years, half of them at sitting desks, half of them at standing desks. And those are the standing desks had twice the rate of heart disease. This came as quite a shock because, you know, it was expected that standing would be better for people, but it turns out that it’s worse for their hearts. And heart disease, all you need is a little heart attack and it can change your whole life. So you know, the problem with diving into standing desks was that nobody really carefully examined what the repercussions might be. And really, the early research shows that standing desks are gonna be a much…or they’re gonna be part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Katie: Yeah, I agree. It’s really interesting because, like I said, I think that’s just our default. I don’t know if it’s as Americans or just as humans, it’s like, okay, theis one thing is bad, let’s pivot and focus completely on this other thing. And we’ve done that now multiple times. And we haven’t gotten it right yet. So let’s talk about what the ideal scenario is. And I know I wanna go in several directions with this, you know, for our kids, for us in a work environment, for our home environment, I think there’s so much we can change and optimize. But explain, just as humans and movement in general, what is an ideal scenario?

Dr. Osler: Well, the ideal scenario is to just go back to being hunter-gatherers where, you know, you spend most of the day walking. You know, as a species, we’re unique in that we have an exercise requirement. You know, our kindred species, you know, bonobos and chimps and orangutans and gorillas are quite comfortable just sitting all day, cracking nuts and eating them and then lumbering up into a tree and making a nest for the night. These species don’t require exercise. But when humans took the fateful step, you know, from the bush out onto the savannah to become hunter-gatherers, we adapted to the lifestyle of a hunter-gatherer, which would involve 5 or 10 or 15 miles of walking in a day. This is what our systems have come to require and even rely on. Hippocrates, you know, famously observed two millennia ago that walking is man’s best medicine. We’re really designed to be an active species and moving all the time. Shockingly, when we sit down, none of that happens. Our muscles go dark and we get zero exercise.

So what we really want is some way to sit that would let us be in constant motion or that would in some way recapitulate walking. And people have…you know, I’m up with the idea of treadmill desks so you can like tredge along at a mile or two an hour all day long. But this hasn’t proved very practical because your cubicle mates hate the noise and they’re expensive and it’s very hard to handle a mouse while you’re walking more than about a half a mile an hour. But what we want is to be moving while you’re sitting. And it turns out that, you know, you can design a chair that lets people move while they’re sitting, using their own…just kind of burning off their own nervous energy, create enough activity to change their biochemistry for the better and improve their posture through their core strength and many advantages that come with moving while you’re sitting.

Katie: That makes sense. And I feel like kids, we can learn from kids on this because they do it naturally. Like if you try to get a child to sit still in a chair, they don’t like it and they’re uncomfortable. And then over time we like learn to settle in and, you know, arch our lower back and get in a horrible posture position and get used to that because we have to do it so much. But I feel like we can learn so much from kids in actually doing this correctly. But let’s talk about this a little bit more too.

Dr. Osler: We kind of force this on kids, right? Because when they show up in first grade, they’re just like dancing on a chair and they have to be, you know, told to sit still, which turns out to be terrible advice. You know, kids know what they need and what they need is to move. And when we, you know, force them to sit still, you know, we do them a terrible disservice. And it turns out that the older kids get, the less they move.

There’s a terrific study that just came out in “The Lancet Psychiatry” just this weekend, or just this month actually, where they look at kids and how much they move and they move less and less and less as they go from being, you know, 14 to 16 to 18 years old. They put accelerometers on these kids just to see how much movement they were doing. And as they got older, they moved less and less and less. Very interestingly, their rates of depression went up and up and up. So it turns out that this business of letting kids move has profound implications, not just for their posture and their strength and their overall health, but also for their psychiatric wellbeing. I mean, we’re discovering just so much about how bad sedentary postures are for people and especially for kids.

Katie: Yeah, absolutely. And I think we’re a little bit different because we homeschool, but I’ve seen this even in my kids and I try to do everything I can to preserve them wanting to move and actually have them sit as little as possible. That’s one of the things we optimize for in homeschooling, but I know that this isn’t necessarily an option in every school scenario, which is why I love what you’re doing. I wanna talk a little bit more about this too because you’ve basically open-sourced this and made this available to all children. But unfortunately, in a lot of school situations, for now, kids still are required to be in the same place in one desk or in one area so they can do their work. And so I feel like you’ve created a really innovative solution that allows them to still move and not to get these all these downsides of sitting or standing. So can you talk more about what this is and how it works?

Dr. Osler: Yeah, no. So we had the idea that, you know, kids know what they need and what they need to do is to move, but the furniture that we forced on them doesn’t allow that. It encourages them to slump and just become motionless. So, you know, we designed a couple of chairs that let people move while they’re sitting. But the idea of getting chairs into 25 million school kids in the United States seemed like it would be a very expensive proposition for schools that are always strapped for cash. I mean, they can’t afford glitter for their preschoolers’ art projects.

So we had the idea that we would design a chair that we could give away. You know, we give away the design as a CNC router file, a router. It’s a machine that takes a piece of plywood and just like stamps out pieces like a cookie cutter. Only the pieces are big enough that they fit together and turn into a chair. And this chair has got like the joints designed into the pattern, so they just click together without screws or glues or anything. And promotionally, they started out using a tennis ball as the thing between the seat and the chair structure, but we found kids that were so active they would wear holes in tennis balls. So we switched now to using lacrosse balls. Let’s see them wear those out. Because these kids are so active, when you give them a chance, they just wear stuff out. So merely by putting a chair under kid that lets them move, you know, they instinctively move, but yet they can stay at their desk and stay, you know, scholastically engaged.

And the spinoff is that anecdotally, teachers report to us that kids are more focused because they can kind of get the wiggle out while they’re just sitting there listening or reading or writing or whatever the task is. And it kind of makes sense because we know that if you let people doodle while they listen to a lecture, they have better recall of what they heard in the lecture. By letting the body be active, the brain can kind of stay more engaged. Descartes got it wrong when he said the brain was just a computer sitting inside a bony box. You know, the brain is really part of the body. And if the body is functioning normally and naturally and moving, the brain can be naturally more engaged.

Katie: Yeah, exactly. And I think this is obviously true for adults as well. So I know you have the stool for children, but is it possible to modify for adults to use also?

Dr. Osler: Right. No, so we created the files for this thing in two sizes because we had the idea that grownups are ultimately gonna wanna try them anyway. So we just…you know, one of the versions is 24 inches tall. So it’s plenty big enough for most grownups to try out. And then we found that grownups really like it. So in fact, I’m sitting on one right now, you know. We make other chairs that, you know, look more like office chairs and have the normal adjustments and upholstery and this and that and the other thing. But these plywood versions, you know, use something as simple as a lacrosse ball, really touch all the bases. And I like it a lot. And you know, so many of my friends, you know, have these things and we really like the idea because, you know, anybody can make one for themselves because, you know, we give them the pattern.

Katie: Yeah. I love that. I love that you guys are not, you know, trying to turn this into a product and charge hundreds and hundreds of dollars for it. You’re just trying to get people to improve their posture and sit more actively. So for kids, obviously, I could see…I’m sure there’s immediate noticeable changes like you mentioned in their ability to concentrate and just their overall comfort and happiness. What kind of changes do you see with adults when they start implementing this active sitting?

Dr. Osler: Well, you know, that’s really been kind of shocking. You know, I had the idea that this would be good for people’s biochemistry, and it would be a hard thing to get people to buy into because, you know, this weirdo chair that we’re proposing, you know, will keep you from having a heart attack 20 or 30 years from now. Just, it’s not a powerful sell. But we noticed that when you put people on an active chair, their posture gets better really within minutes. Within about 90 or 120 seconds, you know, their sternum comes up, it comes back, the lumbar lordosis and their spine reasserts itself and shoulders relax. And really, people get into excellent posture very quickly if you just let them sit on something that requires that they continuously rebalance their posture.

And so that was the first thing was that when we were trying this out on, you know, innocent people who were just walking down the street, we have a few of our chairs out on Church Street in Burlington and just invite people to try them out. Well, the thing we noticed was immediately their posture got better. And people like it because it was kind of fun. And so, you know, we started, you know, trying these things out in other places and we dropped off a bunch of them at Burton Snowboard, which is a local business that makes all the snowboards in the world, I think. And so they took a dozen of them and then they called us up and said they wanted a dozen more. And when we went by to drop off a dozen more, somebody at the desk said, “You know, you should meet Seth. He’s a real fanboy.” So ultimately, we met Seth and Seth was the head of IT at Burton Snowboards and Seth got one of our chairs and within days his back pain problem was solved and, you know, he was just widely enthusiastic and said, you know, we’d given him back his career. Well, we just hadn’t…we had anticipated that our chairs would help people with their posture. I really hadn’t anticipated just what a big help it would be for people with garden variety back pain. Garden variety back pain doesn’t get much respect in the medical industry because nobody dies of it. But it is an immense problem. You know, it affects 80% of Americans and costs $100 billion a year. That’s right up there with the cost of cancer and heart disease. So back pain is an immense problem and it turns out that active sitting, you know, can be a big help.

Katie: Yeah, absolutely. And I think probably adults…even though kids naturally just are great teachers in this and they wanna move anyway, I feel like adults might actually see a bigger benefit because I know so many people, even in my own life, who just have this like mild lower back pain and it’s not horrible or debilitating, but it’s really frustrating for them. And so to be able to have a solution that’s simple that also is gonna hopefully reduce their risk of a heart attack down the road or also lead to these other changes, I think that’s really amazing to be able to have.

Dr. Osler: Right now, it’s hard for us to know, you know, where to begin telling the story because I think sitting actively actually provides all of these benefits and, you know, just exactly how important each of these things is kind of depends on who you are and what your problem is. But people with really bad back pain, you know, they write us emails that are pages long about just how this has changed everything for them. It’s really pretty gratifying and it makes all the time we spent inventing this thing seem worthwhile.

Katie: Absolutely. So I’d love to talk about kind of the differences around the world as well because I’ve mentioned in a couple of questions that I think a lot of these things are at least worse in the U.S. that our culture definitely we just ended up sitting a lot more. And I haven’t been to Japan, but I’ve read it a decent amount of how, like in places like Japan, for instance, they are better about this or their culture has naturally built-in better forms of sitting. Is that actually the case and what can we learn from them?

Dr. Osler: No, it’s very interesting. I was giving a series of lectures at a Feldenkrais Conference in Washington D.C. And there was a woman from Vietnam there who, you know, told a story that, you know, when her family came to the United States as immigrants, you know, they were taken in by a church in Milwaukee and provided with an apartment. So and these people right out of Vietnam where they had been fishermen suddenly are in Milwaukee. And so their sponsors were gonna come by and take them to dinner. And here they were in their apartment and there was all of this weird furniture that they had never seen before because they were Vietnamese and they’d never seen Western furniture.

So when their sponsors came to pick them up to take them out to dinner, they found them squatting on top of chairs and squatting on top of stools because the idea of sitting in a chair never occurred to them because the culture was built around the posture of squatting or sitting seiza on the floor or sitting cross-legged. But sitting in a chair was just something that wasn’t part of their culture at all. And incidentally, back pain is basically unknown in Vietnam. So the more the Western chair permeates a culture, the worse that culture’s problems with back pain and sitting disease become. So it’s the Western office chair is becoming the default chair and with it, it’s bringing a public health catastrophe.

Katie: Wow, that makes so much sense. So let’s talk about the biomechanics from both your experience as a surgeon and also a research epidemiologist. How does, for instance, sitting cross-leg or squatting differ? Is that considered an active form of being still? Like, how does that change our posture and are all of those other things we’ve talked about compared to just sitting?

Dr. Osler: Right. So when you’re sitting cross-legged, you’re responsible for the posture of your spine and you require your internal and external obliques and your multifidus all kind of position your spine so that you can sit upright. When you put someone in an office chair and they just slump backwards against the back of the chair, all their muscles go dark and their posture really turns to the worst possible form. A very famous Tai-Chi teacher once said “The back of your chair is for hanging your coat. If you feel like you need to lean against the back of your chair, you should go home and take a nap.” And I think that’s true. You know, you put a back on a chair and you just invite people to assume the worst possible posture.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. And that’s such a good thing to think about. And just like, I’m right now mixing between standing and sitting on a stool and then squatting, which is typically what I do when I podcast. But I’m curious, like, obviously these chairs I think are a great place to start and such an easy switch to make. But are there any other ideas or recommendations you would have on how we could upgrade and optimize our offices, our homes, for me, like, and for a lot of homeschool moms listening, our kids’ classrooms?

So I’d love your take on all of this. For instance, I feel like the more I move in general, the better I feel. So I have a balance board that I’ll stand on. Sometimes when I work, I have an inversion bench and I’ll try to do handstands every few hours just to get the blood flowing. And then things like a yoga swing and a yoga mat just to be able to get into different positions and move whenever I take a break from working. But based on your research, are there ways that we can upgrade our environment like that? Or what other suggestions would you have?

Dr. Osler: It sounds like you have like the world’s perfect playground for working. I mean all of your solutions are terrific. But, you know, many people in a standard cubicle wouldn’t have room for half of your stuff. And so, you know, if we’re trying to get people down to, you know, a manageable portfolio of things to sit on, you know, an active chair that lets them move while they’re sitting is a good place to start.

The business of squatting is such a terrific posture for humans in general. But unfortunately, almost no Western adults are able to squat. All children can, of course, but they lose that ability because we simply don’t use it. The hamstrings tighten and people just kind of lose the ability to squat. It’s a heavy lift to get it back. And I’ve almost got it back to myself, but it’s asking a lot of people to be trying to get that posture back. So the business of merely changing posture as often as you can, get up, walk while you’re talking on the phone, you know, walk to the water cooler as often as you can, sit on a chair that lets you move. And if your work environment lets you lie down and stretch or do handstands against the wall, well, that’s so much for the better.

Katie: I love that. Yeah. I think that’s another thing. Obviously, like people used to joke that like…and actually, there was a study that’s for a while that there were some metrics in which smokers were healthier than non-smokers, and they confused all these doctors and it was because they were at least walking every couple of hours to go outside. So they were getting outside, they were walking, they were moving, whereas non-smokers weren’t. But the lesson we should take from that is obviously not to smoke, but that we should have some habit that every hour or two, we have a reason to get up and maybe we’re hydrated enough that we need to go to the restroom every two hours or we’re just gonna go outside in the sun for five minutes. But just building that in as a habit rather than just sitting all day long. And there’s so many other benefits to that as well.

Dr. Osler: Well, you could take up smoking or you could get yourself a dog and I think a dog is a much better choice.

Kate: I like that. Yeah, we should all just get a puppy. That’s a great idea.

This podcast is brought to you by Wellnesse, a new company I co-founded to tackle the toughest personal care products and create natural and safe products that work as well as conventional alternatives. I realized that even the most natural of my friends still used conventional toothpaste and shampoo because they weren’t willing to sacrifice quality. There are natural options and ones that work but find products that do both was almost impossible. We tackled the toughest first, creating the first and only natural toothpaste that is fluoride and glycerin free, and that has calcium and hydroxyapatite to uniquely support the mineral balance in the mouth. It also contains neem oil and green tea to support a healthy bacterial balance in the mouth and fight bad breath. Be the first to try it and our innovative natural hair care at wellnesse.com

This podcast is sponsored by The Ready State. If you’re at all like me, you might have perpetual stiffness and pain in your neck and shoulders from years of working, carrying kids and all of the demands of parenting. Or sore hips from too much sitting or multiple pregnancies. I found a great way to relieve my aches and pains and improve my fitness and flexibility. It’s from someone I highly respect… Dr. Kelly Starrett at The Ready State. If you don’t know Kelly, he’s a Mobility and movement coach for Olympic gold medalists, world champions, and pro athletes. He’s the Author of two New York Times bestselling books, including “Becoming a Supple Leopard”, which has sold over half a million copies. He has over 150,000 hours of hands-on experience training athletes at the highest levels. A Doctor of Physical Therapy who helps top companies, military organizations, and universities improve the wellness and resilience of their team members. He created a program called Virtual Mobility Coach. This program is easy to do from home each day, making it ideal for me, and for most moms. And I can do with my kids. Every day, Virtual Mobility Coach gives you fresh, guided video exercises. They show you proven techniques to take care of your body, relieve pain, and improve flexibility. And you can customize your videos in three ways. If you’re in pain, you can pull up a picture of the human body and click on what hurts. And from there, Virtual Mobility Coach will give you a customized pain prescription to help you find relief. Second, you can find a library of soothing recovery routines in the daily maintenance section. They’re a great way to wind-down and practice self-care from the comfort of your home. And third, for athletes, Virtual Mobility Coach also has an entire section of pre- and post-exercise routines for more than four dozen sports and activities. They help you warm-up before your workout so you can perform your best with a lower risk of injury. Right now, you can try Virtual Mobility Coach totally risk-free for two weeks without paying a penny. And after that, you can get 50% off your first three months. Just go to thereadystate.com/wellnessmama and use code WELLNESSMAMA50 at checkout. That’s half-off your first three months when you sign up for a monthly plan. And you’ll get personalized techniques to relieve nagging pain and improve your fitness and flexibility.

Katie: So I wanna talk a little bit more about how we can actually get these chairs in schools and offices because I know that you guys have made these plans available and I would love to actually help, like this podcast be an impetus for creating change. And there’s a lot of moms listening who have, of course, best interest in our kids sitting in a better posture and getting the benefits that we’ve talked about. So let’s talk a little bit more about the practical ways. I know that these have been used now in offices in schools. What’s the best way for us as parents and as even just members of society to get these to schools?

Dr. Osler: Yeah, so we’ve set up a website, buttonchairs.org, so buttonchairs.org. And it’s a website that has some information about our ButtOn Chair Project as well as the computer numeric control file. So you can set up a CNC router to make as many of these things as you want out of a sheet of plywood. We also have plans that were worked out by one of the shop teachers here in Essex, Vermont so that if you don’t have access to a CNC router, you can make these chairs one at a time. There’s a pattern that you just glue on the plywood, cut it out, put it together, and there’s your ButtOn Chair.

And we’re also partnering with a company in the northeast corner of Vermont who just make these things, we’ll put them in a box and sell them to people basically at cost. The idea of, you know, people who don’t have tools but want one of these chairs to try out, you know, we’ll put it in a box and send it to you. But we really think that the best way is for people to, you know, make them by the hundreds for their school system. So people can try them out, we also have plans for making them one at a time with standard hand tools.

Katie: Any idea how people would go about finding one of these large scale router machines in their area? Is it something that like any kind of school would have or university or home improvement store? Where can people find those?

Dr. Osler: So for a while, I was using the CNC router at our makerspace here in Burlington, Vermont, which is called the Generator. But many high schools have them now. You know, they’re just part of shop class these days. It’s, you know, the modern way to cut wood. So almost any, you know, small to moderate-size city will have access to a CNC router someplace. Just last week I was in New Hampshire in Lebanon, New Hampshire visiting a school system that had found a mill shop that had a CNC router, and the guy got so excited about the school’s project that he donated the plywood and donated the CNC router to make a bunch of chairs for the school. So these partnerships can arise, you know, quite organically, when people have the machinery and are just eager to give back to the school system.

Katie: Yeah, I think that’s great. And I could see even if the high schools, for instance, had these, a lot of high school students have to do service hours. At a certain point, like this could be a great thing they could make for younger grades or for special needs students or for, you know, Montessori schools. Or universities I think sometimes have these or if there are Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts who are looking for a project that they could do, I think this would be amazing. And it sounds like a not super difficult thing that they could tackle that would make a big difference in their communities. Or even just parents, like that example you gave who are willing to donate the materials for it. I’d love to see this used more widely in school and I think, like you mentioned, we’d see some big behavioral changes if we could implement these more widely.

Dr. Osler: Yeah, no, it’s been fun to watch, you know, the community kind of embrace the idea and embrace each other, you know, as a way to, you know, support the school system by, you know, helping them make stuff. And the idea of high school students, you know, who have to do shop projects will find that they could have a shop project that actually produced something of use rather than just another cutting board.

Katie: Yeah, absolutely. And I’m even thinking like this would be cool to, not just in our schoolroom, but even in like a kitchen to change out for the chairs at the table. Because our family actually thought about doing the Japanese-style table, which is low on the ground sitting Indian style, but we have a very energetic dog that would make that difficult right now.

Dr. Osler: We have these chairs all over the house, of course. And when guests come for dinner, they’re all a little astonished that they’re gonna be sitting on something so weird. But everybody adapts to it pretty quickly and it’s sort of fun, actually.

Katie: That was gonna be my next question is I’m sure kids can adapt immediately because my kids will get on all these crazy like surf trainers or they get on skis or a surfboard for the first time and they learn it in 12 seconds. But for adults, is there much of an adjustment period or is it more really, like you said, within even just a minute or two, you start to see the difference?

Dr. Osler: Well, people’s posture immediately responds. You can just see it really in front of your eyes. But many people will have very deconditioned core musculatures from, you know, in some cases, decades of just sitting slumped in front of a computer. And for those people we say, you know, give it 15 or 20 minutes the first day and kind of work up from there. And depending on how deconditioned people are, sometimes it takes even a few weeks before people are sitting comfortably all day. But really, you know, we’ve got people who are in their 80s who sit on our chairs all day long and are delighted because as one of these old guys said, “For the first time in my life, I’ve got a six-pack.” And it is just very cool to hear an 83-year-old say that.

Katie: Wow, that’s really drastic and probably appealing. I mean certainly, like, core strength is something I’ve struggled with since having children since my muscles have been moved around so much. And it makes me think, I wonder is this also really beneficial for pregnant women? Because when I was pregnant, I made an effort to sit on a big yoga ball because my midwife said, you know, it’s much better for you if you’re not just sitting and arching your lower back and that you want your pelvis open and you want your hips open and you want your posture good so that when it comes time to deliver the baby, everything’s in the right position. So I was much more cognizant of that when I was pregnant. But I’m wondering if this would also really help a lot of pregnant women with some of those common complaints like sciatica and lower back pain and restless leg and just all those things that can also be a result of too much sitting, especially when you have increased blood flow like that.

Dr. Osler: Yeah, no, we have just a handful of women who’ve been through pregnancy, you know, kind of sitting on our chairs. And the early reports are very positive. But to actually do a research project, you need a lot of pregnant women and a spreadsheet and a few other things. So we don’t have scientific results. But we do have some pretty enthusiastic women. Squatting, of course, is a terrific posture to be practicing if you’re getting ready to have children as well if squatting is something that you can easily still do.

Katie: For those of us who…because I’m with you, I’m almost back to being able to do a natural squat. But like you said, a lot of people, this is something we lose the ability to do, even though all of my children, as soon as they could start walking, that was the first thing I would notice is they can do a perfect squat and they can stay like that for a really long time. And it’s like everything, I tell my kids don’t lose the ability to do all these things you can do, the pull-ups, the handstands, the squatting. It’s so much harder to get it back. But for those of us who are adults who have lost the ability to do some of these things, do you have any tips for learning to get it back? I would guess just active sitting and better posture it definitely is a step toward that. But are there other ways we can nurture these good movement patterns?

Dr. Osler: Well, active sitting is a long way there because you just have to make one change. You just have to take your Herman Miller Aeron chair and put it out in the garage and put an active chair under your desk. And then you get immense benefit really every minute that you’re sitting every day. Other than that, you know, the activities that appeal to you are the ones that you’ll be able to continue. So if you love yoga, yoga is a terrific solution. But if you love martial arts, martial arts is a terrific way to, you know, stretch and condition and so on. And so, you know, I think you just have to follow your passion, but rather than turn body maintenance into another task that you have to do every day. The genius of active sitting is that you get to do it every day, but you only have to decide to do it once by swapping out your chair.

Katie: Yeah, exactly. I’m a big fan of these, kind of, like passive changes that make a big payoff. And I think this is an easy one. Like, it’s not like something you have to remember to go work out every day or you have to remember to take supplements every day. It’s something, like you said, you do it one time and then you’re good. And another example of that for me is I have something called a chilliPad that goes under my sheet in my bed and it can heat or cool your bed. For me, I use it to cool my bed and it can go down to as low as 55 degrees. There’s all this research showing that sleeping in a cooler environment is really beneficial, but it takes a lot of energy to cool the entire house to a lower temperature. So by putting this in my room and programming it, now I sleep at a cooler temperature. It burns fat. It does all these things, improves sleep. But I don’t have to think about it anymore.

So I’m with you. I’m a huge fan of these onetime changes that can like have lasting benefits for our health. So there’s just another reason I love this and wanted to make sure I shared this with everyone listening today because I think it’s a low-cost, easy change, like you said, that can make a huge difference, especially with we’re seeing such rampant back problems and all these issues in our kids. And it’s that onetime easy switch.

Dr. Osler: I like the idea of burning more fat in a colder environment. And it turns out that babies can’t shiver, they just don’t have the neurologic setup to do it. And yet they have a huge surface area and get cold easily. So in order to keep babies from dying of hypothermia, they come equipped with something called brown fat, which is a different texture and color of fat that’s just typically around the back of the child and maybe around the kidneys and some other places. And what it does is it just burns glucose and generates heat to keep the child warm. It’s like a built-in space heater. It’s a very cool workaround for keeping babies warm when they don’t have the normal mechanisms of shivering.

But it was discovered that adults actually retain some brown fat and it can even be induced to proliferate. So by exposing yourself to colder environments, like finish your shower with a cold blast, you can induce your brown fat to grow and prosper and burn calories for you. It’s another workaround to increase your overall body health just by subjecting yourself to a colder environment. Like a shower is a very easy thing to make cold if you’re willing to do that. But it’s a decision you have to make after every shower.

Katie: Yeah, exactly. And I know one thing, an objection I commonly hear on things like this, is people say, “Well, that’s not a natural thing. Like, we just shouldn’t have to go out of our way to do all of these things.” And my response always is that never before have we faced so many of these negative inputs, like the idea of sitting for most of the day, or like the idea of being temperature-controlled at all times. This was never available in human history until now. And because of all of these negative inputs from pollution, from our poor food supply, etc., we need to now be proactive at counteracting them. And so when it’s small changes you can make that are not an effort every single day, that’s the easy starting point to, to me, 80/20 it and then do the hard stuff.

Dr. Osler: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It’s astonishing that the vast intelligence of our species has been devoted to making our lives “better.” But really, you know, by having food constantly available and the temperature constantly controlled, it’s been a catastrophe for our biologic life. And so, you know, trying to get back to our hunter-gatherer roots by at least experiencing cold occasionally or experiencing motion constantly is an essential part of being healthy in the 21st century.

Katie: Exactly. And my take on it too is that I’m a big fan of kind of the Pareto principle, 80/20 rule, and I think that you start with the biggest and easiest changes. Like I said, so sleep is something we all do every single day. Optimize your sleep environment. That’s an easy change you can make that has big dividends. Then we’re all sitting so much. If you can optimize the way that you’re sitting and optimize your posture, that has a big payoff. Same thing with like food. Most of us eat every single day unless we’re fasting. So optimize your food situation but then also occasionally mix it up and fast or do something different and work on that metabolic flexibility.

But because we live in a time when all of these things are always available, we have to be a little bit more intentional, like you said, about mixing it up and keeping our body in its optimal state. So I love that you are making this possible with this act of sitting even from kids from a young age. I think that’s such a gift to them. And I love that you have just open-sourced it and made it available to all of us.

Dr. Osler: Well, you know, I’m not gonna have another idea this good. So it’s extremely exciting for me to have so many people embrace it and you too, it’s terrific to be on your show.

Katie: Well, thank you for joining me. I, of course, will link to all of the things that we’ve talked about today in the show notes at wellnessmama.fm. So if you guys are listening while hopefully doing an activity or moving or especially driving, don’t worry about writing them down when you’re driving. Just go check out the show notes, wellnessmama.fm and you’ll have a link to where you can download the plans for these chairs and learn more about how they work as well as to some of Dr. Osler’s research and writing and work that I’ve found. But just for people listening, Dr. Osler, where can they find you and continue learning?

Dr. Osler: So we have a website, qor360.com that has a blog and, you know, other stuff. And I did a TED Talk, I don’t know, about eight or nine months ago on the whole ButtOn Chair Project of making chairs for free for schools. If you were to google TEDx and Osler, you’ll find my TED Talk pretty quickly.

Katie: Awesome. Well, like I said, I’ll make sure all of those are linked in the show notes. And for all of you guys who are listening who are parents or educators, I think this is a really cool thing we can do for our kids and our schools. And so I hope that you will check it out and see if it’s something that you can implement. And I also hope that this episode has raised awareness for all of us just on little changes we can make to begin moving more day-to-day without having to run a marathon or do anything extreme. But just those little movements that can let us have, you know, 6-pack abs when we’re 80 years old. So again, Dr. Osler, thank you for your work and for making this available and for your time today. And I am really grateful that you were here.

Dr. Osler: Well, thanks so much, Katie. It was fun.

Katie: And thanks to all of you for listening, for sharing your valuable asset, your time, with us today. We’re both so grateful that you did and I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the “Wellness Mama” podcast.

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.

Thanks to Our Sponsors

This podcast is sponsored by The Ready State. If you’re at all like me, you might have perpetual stiffness and pain in your neck and shoulders from years of working, carrying kids, and all of the demands of parenting. Or you might have sore hips from too much sitting or multiple pregnancies. I found a great way to relieve my aches and pains and improve my fitness and flexibility. It’s from someone I highly respect… Dr. Kelly Starrett at The Ready State. If you don’t know Kelly, he’s a mobility and movement coach for Olympic gold medalists, world champions, and pro athletes. He’s the author of two New York Times bestselling books, including “Becoming a Supple Leopard,” which has sold over half a million copies. He has over 150,000 hours of hands-on experience training athletes at the highest levels and is a Doctor of Physical Therapy who helps top companies, military organizations, and universities improve the wellness and resilience of their team members. He created a program called Virtual Mobility Coach. This program is easy to do from home each day, making it ideal for me, and for most moms. I can do it with my kids. Every day, Virtual Mobility Coach gives you fresh, guided video exercises. They show you proven techniques to take care of your body, relieve pain, and improve flexibility. And you can customize your videos in three ways. If you’re in pain, you can pull up a picture of the human body and click on what hurts. And from there, Virtual Mobility Coach will give you a customized pain prescription to help you find relief. Second, you can find a library of soothing recovery routines in the daily maintenance section. They’re a great way to wind-down and practice self-care from the comfort of your home. And third, for athletes, Virtual Mobility Coach also has an entire section of pre- and post-exercise routines for more than four dozen sports and activities. They help you warm-up before your workout so you can perform your best with a lower risk of injury. Right now, you can try Virtual Mobility Coach totally risk-free for two weeks without paying a penny. And after that, you can get 50% off your first three months. Just go to thereadystate.com/wellnessmama and use code WELLNESSMAMA50 at checkout. That’s half-off your first three months when you sign up for a monthly plan. And you’ll get personalized techniques to relieve nagging pain and improve your fitness and flexibility.

This podcast is brought to you by Wellnesse, a new company I co-founded to tackle the toughest personal care products and create natural and safe products that work as well as conventional alternatives. I realized that even the most natural of my friends still used conventional toothpaste and shampoo because they weren’t willing to sacrifice quality. There are natural options and ones that work, but find products that do both was almost impossible. We tackled the toughest first, creating the first and only natural toothpaste that is fluoride and glycerin free, and that has calcium and hydroxyapatite to uniquely support the mineral balance in the mouth. It also contains neem oil and green tea to support a healthy bacterial balance in the mouth and fight bad breath. Be the first to try it and our innovative natural hair care at wellnesse.com

]]>
clean no 00:50:27 Katie Wells
325: Hashimoto’s Update: How I Got to Remission & What I Do to Maintainhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/hashimotos-update/ Thu, 26 Mar 2020 11:00:00 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=424776

Today I’m going to give you all an update on my decade-long journey with Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, one of the reasons I got into health and started a blog and a podcast. I’ll revisit from beginning to end all of the steps I tried, what worked and what didn’t work, and where I currently am with my health.

I get quite a few questions about this, especially when I mention it being in remission. Before we start, I have to say: if I’ve learned anything through this whole process, it is just how personalized and individualized health is, especially when it comes to autoimmune disease. What worked for me, ultimately, was trying a lot of different things and tracking the results along the way.

I hope some of you can benefit from some of the things I’ve tried!

Episode Highlights: My Hashimoto’s Update

  • A recipe for autoimmune disease (so you don’t follow it like I did)
  • Why I use a bathtub analogy for describing health
  • The excuses I kept telling myself (they all had to do with being a mom)
  • Why thyroid testing didn’t help… at first
  • How I ended up taking too much iodine trying to correct it
  • The reason broccoli sprouts are always on my counter
  • Doctors and testing I tried… and what finally worked
  • What I’m doing now that’s made all the difference
  • And more!

Resources We Mention

More From Wellness Mama

Did you enjoy this episode? Please drop a comment below or leave a review on iTunes to let us know. We value knowing what you think and this helps other moms find the podcast as well.

Read Transcript

Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.

This episode is sponsored by Four Sigmatic, the reason I’m on shrooms (the legal kind) every day. They make a wide variety of superfood mushroom infused products from coffees and teas to elixirs and even chocolate that is infused with ten mushrooms! I have a shelf in my pantry just for four sigmatic products and keep pretty much all of them on hand. Some current favorites… my kids love the reishi infused cocoa, and I love that it helps them sleep! I also really enjoy their 10 mushroom blend which contains all of my favorites like chaga, cordyceps, reishi and even meshima. I add this to coffee, tea, or smoothies to get a daily dose of shrooms. As a listener of this podcast, you can save 15% by going to foursigmatic.com/wellnessmama and using the code “wellnessmama”

This episode is brought to you by Beekeeper’s Naturals, superfood products from the hive that help support your family’s health. Right now, Propolis has been a lifesaver with all of the sniffles and coughs going around where we live. Propolis is a resinous mixture that bees make in the hive and contains over 300 compounds including polyphenols and compounds that are antibacterial and a compound called pinocembrin that acts as an antifungal. Some studies have shown that propolis can speed wound healing. It’s natural antibacterial and antifungal properties also make it great for fighting the sniffles. At first sign of any sniffles, sore throat or coughing, I spray propolis in the throat and it almost always helps us bounce back quickly. I also use propolis before flying to avoid picking up anything on the plane. You can save 15% on propolis and all Beekeeper’s Naturals products at beekeepersnaturals.com/wellnessmama with the code wellnessmama

Katie: Hello and welcome to the ”Wellness Mama” podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and wellnesse.com, my new personal care line that you can check out. And today I’m gonna give an update on my journey with Hashimoto’s and from beginning to end all of the steps I tried, what worked and what didn’t work, and where I currently am with that because I get quite a few questions about this, especially when I mentioned being in remission and it was very much a decade-long journey for me.

I’m hopeful that some of you can benefit from maybe some of the things I’ve tried. I will say before we jump in that if I’ve learned anything through this whole process, it is just how personalized and individualized health is and especially when you’re dealing with something as intricate as autoimmune disease. I do think a lot of these things, in general, can be helpful in some way to people with lots of different autoimmune disease, but I don’t mean them to be diagnostic or prescriptive. What worked for me, ultimately, was trying a lot of different things and finding the things that worked for me by tracking.

So as I go through all of these different things that worked, I will also say that I have kept a relatively detailed health journal that’s now in digital form actually through… It’s been at some points notes on my phone in Evernote and now lives in Google docs so that I always have it with me and I track things very carefully, including my labs using Heads Up Health, which is a health dashboard.

Anytime I’m trying something new, I’m definitely looking at the empirical data of what’s happening in my body. And I also keep notes on any changes in exercise, in general and dietary stuff, and also sleep and use my Oura Ring as well so that I can see what’s actually working and what’s not. I think that that’s a really important step for all of us, whatever we’re trying to work through in a health perspective, not that we need to be obsessive about it, but just to be able to see trends over time. It’s really helpful to have all of the data in one place.

So starting from the beginning or as much as in the beginning as possible without being too long-winded, years ago about, gosh, almost 14 years, more than 14 years ago now, I was pregnant with my first child. And I had recently finished college and had been in an extremely stressful academic environment. I loved it, but I was pushing myself incredibly hard. I wasn’t sleeping very much. I took 28 hours my final semester while I was pregnant and while I was working on a lot of other projects, so I was extremely stressed. I was not eating much food. And then when I did eat I was not eating very well and I was pregnant. So lots of potential factors all hitting at one time.

And I’ve joked before that if you want to create autoimmune disease, my recipe seems to be don’t sleep, eat really bad food, and be stressed all the time. And that’s enough too, if you’ve got a genetic predisposition, to kind of trigger something. And I think, based on my research at least, a lot of factors can go into it. It can be toxicity from certain things. It can be deficiencies of certain nutrients. It can be stress. Like, stress alone can trigger autoimmune disease from many of the stories I’ve heard from you guys and from my research.

So I think there’s a lot of factors that go in. I’ve explained this almost as like a bathtub concept that if you have a bathtub you can put a lot of different things in it. You could put rocks. You could put kids’ toys, which are usually what are in my bathtub. You could put sand. You could put golf balls. You could put water, Kool-Aid, whatever. You can put a lot of stuff in. But when it reaches the top, no matter what you put in, something is going to overflow. And that’s kind of how I think of health problems and autoimmune disease. And I think some of us maybe have genetically bigger bathtubs and more leeway than others based on genetics. But everybody has that point at which health problems will start.

And so I think there’s a lot of different factors that can go into this. And I think there’s also a lot of different factors that can help clean out the bathtub and reset things. So this was my journey of finding what those things were. At this time in my life, that was where I was health-wise. I was very young. I wasn’t thinking about health problems. I was certainly not thinking about what I ate or what impact it might have on my health. I wish I had thought more about what impact it would have on my child and I wish I had known now all of the things I know to take and to do when pregnant. But at that point, I was pregnant with my first, extremely busy, extremely stressed, and had a tough birth with him, and then was adjusting to life as a mom, which is a relatively large life adjustment to begin with, as well as adjusting to a move and to still being a newlywed. And a lot, and it was just a lot of things that happened at once.

And so, in the beginning, I didn’t fully realize that I was in a health crisis until it got pretty bad because I wrote off a lot of the things that were happening as, “Oh, that’s just because of the pregnancy,” or, “That’s just because of having a new baby,” or, “That’s just because I’m not sleeping,” or all of those different things. But when my oldest son was six weeks old, I was sitting in the doctor’s office waiting for the doctor for my followup appointment. And he was running late because he was delivering another baby. And I read through pretty much every magazine in that waiting room. And one of the last ones I picked up, I believe it was “Time” magazine. And it said that for the first time in two centuries, the current generation of American children would have a shorter life expectancy than their parents.

And that just…it was such a stark contrast. You might’ve heard that part of the story before because it was so, so pivotal for me that day. But to hear that and to think about and read through all these statistics in that article about how they were gonna face such high rates of cancer, diabetes, and autoimmune disease, and heart disease and how everything was drastically on the rise, and looking back mathematically, it didn’t even make sense that in such a short period of time, in such few generations, we could see such drastic changes. And reading that while holding this tiny baby who I was just overwhelmed with love for, it made me so mad that I wasn’t just not okay with that as a new mom with so many hormones. I was not okay with the idea that that was the future for my child or for all of our children.

So something, a ball started rolling that day. Something clicked in my head and I didn’t know if I’d ever be able to or how, but I was determined that I wanted to help change that statistic. I wanted to help change it, certainly for my own children, but hopefully also, for lots of other children because I wanted better than that for our kids. And around the same time, I started just, like I said, noticing some symptoms but largely writing them off as, “Oh, maybe that’s just post-pregnancy,” or, “Maybe it just is harder to lose weight after having a baby,” or, “Maybe it’s normal to be cold when you’re nursing,” or, “Of course, your hair’s supposed to fall out after pregnancy,” and, “Of course, I’m tired because I’m not sleeping.”

And so I just kind of kept writing those things off. But I did have like all of those symptoms. I had trouble losing the weight after my son and then got pregnant with my daughter less than a year later. And so the whole process kind of started again. And in hindsight, I can see almost kind of a snowball effect, having now had six kids within a nine-year period, just how difficult that was on my body, but also how I was able to ignore so many of the symptoms that would line up with Hashimoto’s because they also line up with things like pregnancy and breastfeeding and lack of sleep with being a new mom.

But over the course of having my next couple of children, there were these persistent symptoms and I wasn’t able to lose weight. And I kept thinking, “I wonder if something else is going on.” I would read things in my research about thyroid disease and I kept wondering if that’s what it was. And through my self-research, I think I probably actually made the problem worse in the beginning because at first, I would ask my doctor when I was pregnant to test me for any thyroid issues.

And they do some routine thyroid tests, typically, most doctors during pregnancy, but they were just testing a couple of the hormones. Usually, it was just T3 or sometimes TSH, but nothing else. They were just testing a couple of things. And then if those were normal, they wouldn’t go any deeper. So I was asking for tests and I was being told everything was fine. And increasingly, I kept thinking like, “I don’t think everything is fine,” but I couldn’t get a doctor to help me figure out why. And so then I started taking different supplements that were labeled for thyroid. In hindsight, this probably made things worse because a lot of those supplements are iodine-based. And if you have certain thyroid issues, iodine can be a little bit complicated, to say the least. And so I was taking iodine that probably actually, now understanding my version, made things worse.

And I’ll try to explain a little bit of why. I definitely, again, I’m not trying to give medical advice on this. I think if you even suspect that you have a thyroid issue or any kind of autoimmune disease, it is very, very important to work with a doctor who knows about that condition and who can know your full medical history. I’m just sharing what worked for me. If you do need to find a functional medicine doctor, I use a company called SteadyMD and I will link to them in the show notes at wellnessmama.fm. They have been phenomenal. I worked with Dr. Lauren Jefferis who is highly experienced in this, but I’m back to the iodine note.

So iodine is often recommended if you have thyroid problems because there’s this idea that an iodine deficiency can lead to hypothyroidism or there’s a correlation between low iodine and hypothyroidism. And so a lot of people end up taking iodine, but in some cases it can do more harm than good. And I didn’t learn this for a lot of years. I’ll explain how I learned it in a little while. But basically it depends whether or not… Like, iodine can be both good or bad for the thyroid. And there’s a lot of factors that come into play.

So when the term thyroid problems is a pretty broad category and there’s a lot of actual medical conditions that can fall into that and they all need to be handled differently. So like I said, I found this out the hard way. And after all my initial research and a chiropractor said I needed to start taking iodine. So I did. I took these supplements with iodine and I started feeling a lot worse. And I kind of wrote it off thinking, “Oh, maybe it’s an adjustment reaction.” And I continued taking it, but I eventually had to stop taking it because I didn’t feel any better.

And now I’m seeing research and my own experience that really verify that. So there’s data from a lot of countries that can really kind of speak to the whole iodine thing because a lot of countries started adding iodine to salt to combat hypothyroidism. But then on the flip side of that, they would see rising rates of autoimmune thyroid problems. And so Chris Kresser talks about this. He has a great post. You can Google Chris Kresser in pretty much anything and great articles will come up.

But there’s countries like Sri Lanka, Brazil, Greece, China, and I think others that saw an increase in autoimmune thyroid issues after increasing iodine. And this is because increased intake of iodine, especially in supplement form, they think can increase the potential of an autoimmune attack on the thyroid. And one reason from what I understand might be that iodine reduces the activity of an enzyme called thyroid peroxidase or TPO, which is something that is required for proper hormone production and something that they measure. I’ll talk more about that soon.

But there’s also a confounding factor. So my own treatment plan, I now avoid any supplemental iodine whatsoever. And there is evidence that shows that those with autoimmune thyroid disease can see a benefit from just from avoiding iodine. But on the other hand, those with the iodine deficiency-induced hypothyroidism can benefit from very careful supplementation. But again, it’s that very careful balance and why you’d wanna work with a doctor who knows what they’re doing.

Another researcher I really admire is Dr. Paul J M Annette [SP]. And he talks about another factor that might come into play with the iodine autoimmune relationship. And that’s selenium. So he says that excess intake like of iodine can cause autoimmune thyroid problems that bears all the characteristics of Hashimoto’s but might not actually clinically the Hashimoto’s. And he found that an animal studies this occurs only if the animal is deficient or has an excess of selenium, which is another one we need to get in very careful amounts.

And also in animal studies, very high intake can make a preexisting autoimmune condition worse. But again, only if selenium isn’t too high or too low. So he found that if you’re selenium levels are correct, then your thyroid follicles are healthy, people don’t have goiter in those scenarios, and autoimmune markers go into normal levels. So it seems that there is a really important and very carefully-balanced thing that comes into play with optimizing selenium. And I’ll talk more about that when I talk about supplements I now take. But the bottom line is I think actually made my own thyroid problems worse in the beginning by taking way too much iodine.

So for the next several years, I went through a variety of different doctors that I would try to find locally and asked them to test different thyroid markers or help me try to figure out what was wrong and largely with no beneficial results because they would test the same things. They would tell me everything was normal and that all of the symptoms, the fatigue, the hair loss, the cold, the tired, etc, those were all just normal with being a mom and they’re not. And so if you’re listening, no matter what you think you might be dealing with, I would say don’t settle for being told those things are normal. And unfortunately, sometimes we do have to be very strong advocates in our own health. That is a lesson I’ve learned over and over and all of this that when it comes to actually finding our own health answers, we can find incredible doctors and practitioners who can be amazing partners, but we can never outsource the responsibility because health is so personalized.

And at the end of the day, our best-case scenario is going to require us being patients and n equals, one, and experimenting on ourselves. I went through many, many doctors. I think it was eight by the time I finally started to get answers. And when my fourth child was young, I actually traveled to a health conference with her and had my mom there to help babysit. I was still tired. I still couldn’t lose weight. I was feeling all the emotions of feeling like a fraud at a health conference because I couldn’t figure out how to get the weight off and not being able to get a diagnosis. And I was talking to someone there who said she had had a diagnosis of thyroid problems and it had taken her a long time. And I was like, “Who did you finally see? How did you finally get answers?” And she recommended her doctor, who is now a doctor I’ve worked with and a very close friend, Dr. Alan Christianson. And I will link to his website also in the show notes at wellnessmama.fm. He has incredible resources that you can read and find for free. And he has books on this topic.

But she told me, “I worked with Dr. Alan Christianson. He was able to diagnose me immediately and my entire life changed. I felt so much better.” And for the first time and a really long time, I had this glimmer of hope and it was like, ”Can you please send me his info? I’m willing to work with him. I’ll go anywhere.” And she’s like, ”Oh no, he’s here at the conference.” And I ran into him later that day and I started barely just talking about my symptoms. And before I could even finish explaining all this stuff, he looked at me, he reached out, he actually felt my thyroid, and he said that he would…he wanted to run some labs. But he was pretty sure just based on that that I had Hashimoto’s and that like he could tell that my thyroid was a little bit enlarged. There were likely nodules and based on symptoms he said, “They probably aren’t testing the correct labs. They probably haven’t tested your antibodies,” which was true and, “They probably haven’t identified, but I would…” He said, “I would be willing to bet that you likely have Hashimoto’s.”

And while for some people hearing that might be a bad thing, I was so overwhelmingly excited to just have potentially a glimmer of hope of knowing what it might be and then having a way to try to research and figure out how to get over it that I actually hugged him. I didn’t just want to hug him. I did. And over the next year, he worked with me through lab testing, through all kinds of different methods that I’ll talk about. And I started to see improvement in my symptoms and also in my labs. And he’s now become a very close friend. I absolutely love him.

Like I said, I recommend his books very highly. I recommend his website and his work and he’s also just one of the most fascinating people I have ever met just as a person to hang out with. He’s incredibly smart. He read the encyclopedias before he was five and he now is…he competitively unicycles up mountains. So an incredibly interesting human being, and incredibly smart, and I am forever grateful to him for starting me on this journey to recovery.

So at that point through lab testing, it showed elevated TSH, elevated antibodies, and an ultrasound of my thyroid revealed nodules. So all of those things lined up and led to an official diagnosis of Hashimoto’s. At that point, I started to really wanna understand for the first time autoimmune disease in general, what was going on within my body. I’ll link to a lot of the resources I used to start understanding it in the show notes. I read all of Dr. Christianson’s work. I read a lot from Dr. Tom O’Bryan, some from Dr. Sarah Valentine, Dr. Isabella Wentz. There are so many incredible researchers who have written and shared incredible information about this. And there are differences based on the different types of autoimmune disease, but there’s a lot great resources as a starting point.

In the beginning of treatment, the things that Dr. Christianson and I did together were basically developed a plan based on diet, lifestyle, and careful supplementation and medication for a while. I think that’s an important part to talk about in this story to be able to let my body come back to baseline and recover. In general, I typically try to avoid medication when I can, but I also think that there is a time and a place for certain things. And I don’t ever want to like exclude traditional medical treatment, as I do think there’s a time and a place for that. And I talk about cases, just like for instance, the birth of my third child. I would be dead and so would he without a C-section and without medical care because I had placenta previa.

I think there’s absolutely time and place for conventional medicine. And for me, this meant that I took in the very beginning something called WP Thyroid, which is a natural thyroid supplement. Now, it’s very difficult to get. So I take Nature Throid. And the logic here was that taking that would help give my body a break because my TSH was high. And when your TSH is high, which is a stimulating hormone, those nodules were more likely to grow as well. So in order to hopefully shrink the nodules, I wanted to keep TSH low for awhile. And so I was taking WP Thyroid and now Nature Throid at the end to give my body a break to keep TSH low so that I’d be able to shrink the nodules. And I was using a lot of things like in conjunction with this with a focus on reducing inflammation and trying to figure out the root causes.

Dr. Isabella Wentz has multiple books on this and her website is full of great information on finding your own root causes. I think this part is extremely individualized. So I’m not even going to go deep on what ended up working for me other than the dietary side because I think there are some commonalities there. But things that can potentially be root causes or at least root triggers of these kinds of things are chemicals or toxicities in the body from any variety of different factors, things like an underlying undiagnosed virus. Epstein-Barr is apparently very common and in conjunction, people may not even know they have it and they might have a latent version of some virus in the body that is keeping the body from being able to come back to homeostasis and to recover from something like this.

And so I started really researching and experimenting and delving into all of the things I could do to lower inflammation, to give my body a break, and to let it recover. And I tried a lot of things over the last 10 years to finally get this to happen. And I think that it would be very difficult to say even a number of things that were the actual causes that let me fully recover. But I think there were some contributing factors that were really helpful. I think the common factor is inflammation. So for people who are struggling with this, again, I think it’s very important to find a doctor who you can work with to figure out what are your own root causes and then what do you need to do to address them.

So for me, there was a combination of diet and lifestyle factors. And I’ll talk about some that I mentioned a little bit in past podcast episodes. But it was also really important to note that for me, I had to address all of these factors and be very patient with my body and let all of these things come back into normal, get my hormones in normal range, support my body nutritionally, keep inflammation low, and I was not able to lose weight easily during that entire process. It was not until my body recovered and really came back to baseline that I was able to lose weight. And at that point it was incredibly easy. And I’ve also shared in a recent podcast episode the emotional side of that and how I think really dealing with our stress and emotions is a huge key.

So I’m not gonna go back through that, but listen to episode 309 of this podcast if you want to understand that whole side. In this one, I’m just gonna focus on the medical and nutritional and lifestyle things I did. So one thing Dr. Christianson recommended right away, he said that you know, hormones all work together almost like a symphony and you won’t just have one out of place. They all depend on each other.

So when you end up with something like a thyroid issue or hormones that are not where they should be, you want to make sure you’re supporting it across the board. And one thing he is a big fan of is getting sunlight in the morning. It doesn’t have to be on your skin. You don’t have to get a suntan or a sunburn. In fact, you won’t early in the morning typically anyway. But being outside in natural light as soon as possible after waking up, and I’ve mentioned this before, but I wanna reiterate because it really does make a difference. It’s easy to ignore because you think it won’t make a very big difference just getting outside. But there’s a cascade of hormones in our body that depends on light.

And light has a very important signaling purpose in things like melatonin production, cortisol production, and keeping those things in proper ranges. And if your cortisol is messed up or you’re not making melatonin or you’re not sleeping well because you’re not making melatonin, you are going to have a difficult time getting inflammation down in the body and letting your body recover from something like, for me, Hashimoto’s. So his advice was to spend 30 minutes in the sun. For me, it’s on my porch in the morning as soon as possible after waking up and I often do this sipping tea or having coffee some days.

And so sitting outside with my family in the sun every morning, that is an easy, super simple free thing that we can all do that has, I noticed, measurable changes in my hormone levels from doing. So my cortisol was…actually, when he first tested me, it was the exact opposite of what it was supposed to be. So cortisol is supposed to spike at certain times and fall at others and that signals that your stress levels are in the correct ranges. And mine was doing the exact opposite. And getting sunlight in the morning along with some of these other methods, helped correct that for me.

Another thing that he recommended for me was broccoli sprouts, eating broccoli sprouts every day. And some of these things, at first I doubted like, “Is this actually gonna be beneficial? Like the sunlight, is that actually gonna be helpful?” And I will say I still do these things to this day because I do feel like they make a difference. But he also recommended broccoli sprouts regularly. And the reason for this is broccoli sprouts are high in a substance called sulforaphane. If you have never heard of this, I have a couple of posts on it that I will link to in the show notes. Dr. Rhonda Patrick also has some great posts and podcasts about this. But it’s found in cruciferous vegetables, especially in broccoli sprouts.

There are studies that show that sulforaphane can be anticancer, antimicrobial, anti-inflammatory, which is why I was using it. And there are even studies looking at it to help fight aging and diabetes. And the great thing is this is something inexpensive that you can make at home. I have a tutorial on wellnessmama.com that’ll be linked in the show notes on wellnessmama.fm. But if you haven’t heard of this compound before, I’ll try not to keep this or I’ll try to keep this from being too boring. But so sulforaphane is the name for this cancer-fighting compound that’s found in cruciferous vegetables and especially sprouts.

If you care about the science, sulforaphane is created when the enzyme myrosinase transforms the glucoraphanin into sulforaphane. Hopefully, I pronounced all that correctly. Since myrosinase and glucoraphanin are found in different parts of the plants, this change actually happens when the plant is damaged. So when you chew it or blend it up, then these two compounds mixed together and react and young sprouts or broccoli or particularly good sources of glucoraphanin. And more specifically, sulforaphane is part of a group of plant-based compounds, phytochemicals called isothiocyanates, which in the body, this stimulates the production of important enzymes that fight free radicals. You’ve probably heard of those for their effect on aging in the body.

So inflammation and free radicals are also, they get the blame for a lot of types of cancer. So this is a big deal and there’s a lot of cool research right now happening about these particular phytochemicals and protection against cancer. And since I had nodules on my thyroid, I was very cautious to make sure that those weren’t gonna turn cancerous. And so like I said, sulforaphane is found in all cruciferous vegetables, but much higher in broccoli sprouts and other sprouts.

And these are things you can grow easily at home. There’re studies, like I said, showing that this can boost brain health. It can help with detoxification, which is another factor that’s often present with autoimmune disease. Taking sulforaphane can help increase gludethyon as an NRF-2 activator and also slowing aging. There’s a lot of studies about this, so, and again, it’s an easy thing that he recommended adding in. You can grow them in your own kitchen. I’ve got tutorials in the show notes.

But I also think before I move on, it’s important to talk about cruciferous vegetables because just like the iodine thing, there’s, you know, the conception that you should take iodine if you have thyroid problems. There is also some advice if you start reading into the research on thyroid issues, in general, that you should not eat cruciferous vegetables like broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, brussels sprouts, etc. if you have thyroid problems. And again, the answer to this is a little bit more complicated and nuanced than just whether you should or shouldn’t.

As I started really digging into this, I found that some sources claim that all cruciferous vegetables should be avoided if you have thyroid issues while others say it’s fine to eat them if they’re cooked. You just don’t want to eat them raw. And then I also read, some sources that said, if you’re gonna eat cruciferous vegetables, you need to take iodine. Again, that didn’t work for me, but there was a lot of conflicting information about this. So I asked Dr. Christianson when I first started this and he explained that it’s perfectly safe to consume cruciferous vegetables regularly if you have Hashimoto’s. And here’s why.

He said cruciferous vegetables are, they basically belong to the mustard family and cruciferous vegetables is a broad term for this whole group of things that everything could include bok choy, arugula, Brussel sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, collard greens, horseradish, mustard greens, radishes, turnips, watercress, etc. And, in general, there’s a lot of benefits to these kinds of vegetables. They contain a lot of phytochemicals and important things. But a lot of people with thyroid issues are hesitant to consume them, especially in large amounts because of some conflicting opinions online.

So in my opinion, like I said, they can be extremely healthy. They contain folate, Vitamin C, E, K, and a lot of phytochemicals that can reduce inflammation. So there’s potential reasons to consume them. The reason people say you might not wanna eat them if you have thyroid issues is that they also contain goitrogens, which are substances that affect the thyroid in certain ways. And goitrogens can interfere with the thyroid’s ability to take in iodine. So that’s also why people say you might wanna take iodine if you’re consuming a lot of those because your body needs that to produce thyroid hormone.

So people are worried about the goitrogenic activity of these. So they say if you have thyroid issues, you should not consume cruciferous vegetables. Before we move on, it’s also important to note that the cruciferous vegetables are not the only foods that contain goitrogens. So if you’re considering avoiding cruciferous vegetables, you also wanna avoid things like peaches, peanuts, red wine, soy, strawberries, sweet potatoes, teas, etc. But for people with Hashimoto’s, goitrogens aren’t exactly necessarily where we should be looking at for problems.

I think that personally, and based on what Dr. Christianson said, I find that the benefits of eating cruciferous vegetables, especially things like broccoli sprouts, outweigh the negatives, even for those with Hashimoto’s. Again, work with a doctor. But from what Dr, Christianson explained to me, you would have to eat an enormous amount of cruciferous vegetables to affect the thyroid negatively. And not too many of us have the problem of overeating vegetables. That’s statistically not what is happening in the U.S.

In fact, there’s only been one case study where someone actually harmed their thyroid by eating too many cruciferous vegetables. And that was an 88-year-old woman from what I remember who developed hypothyroidism, but she was eating several pounds of raw bok choy every day for several months. She probably would have avoided the problem had she just cooked that. Unless you were eating pounds and pounds of raw cruciferous vegetables every day, probably not an issue if you have Hashimoto’s.

I already talked about the iodine side. I also wouldn’t consider taking supplemental iodine without very specific testing and working with a doctor who understands that. But I personally do consume cruciferous vegetables including broccoli sprouts relatively regularly. If you are worried, some ways you can reduce the goitrogen activity while still consuming these, ferment your veggies, cook them, those both deactivate a lot of them ahead of time.

If you’re putting things like kale or spinach into a smoothie, you can blanch them ahead of time and freeze them. The heat will kill most of the goitrogens and then they’re ready to go when you wanna blend them. Again, selenium comes into play. So for me, finding the right amount of selenium and taking it made a big difference and I minimize the iodine as well. So a little bit of a tangent there into cruciferous vegetables and broccoli sprouts. But that did make a big difference for me and I still consume broccoli sprouts regularly. There’s also now a sulforaphane supplement you can take. Historically, it’s extremely hard to isolate sulforaphane into a supplement form. And I have finally found a supplement that does that, so I’ll link to that in the show notes as well.

This episode is sponsored by Four Sigmatic, the reason I’m on shrooms (the legal kind) every day. They make a wide variety of superfood mushroom infused products from coffees and teas to elixirs and even chocolate that is infused with ten mushrooms! I have a shelf in my pantry just for four sigmatic products and keep pretty much off of them on hand. Some current favorites… my kids love the reishi infused cocoa, and I love that it helps them sleep! I also really enjoy their 10 mushroom blend which contains all of my favorites like chaga, cordyceps, reishi and even meshima. I add this to coffee, tea, or smoothies to get a daily dose of shrooms. As a listener of this podcast, you can save 15% by going to foursigmatic.com/wellnessmama and using the code “wellnessmama”

This episode is brought to you by Beekeepers Naturals… superfood products from the hive that help support your family’s health. Right now, Propolis has been a lifesaver with all of the sniffles and coughs going around where we live. Propolis is a resinous mixture that bees make in the hive and contains over 300 compounds including polyphenols and compounds that are antibacterial and a compound called pinocembrin that acts as an antifungal. Some studies have shown that propolis can speed wound healing. It’s natural antibacterial and antifungal properties also make it great for fighting the sniffles. At first sign of any sniffles, sore throat or coughing, I spray propolis in the throat and it almost always helps us bounce back quickly. I also use propolis before flying to avoid picking up anything on the plane. You can save 15% on propolis and all beekeepers naturals products at beekeepersnaturals.com/wellnessmama with the code wellnessmama

I also found that I needed to do very specific exercise. So for me, that meant I only stick to now high-intensity exercise and things like lifting weights. I don’t do any long-form cardio, so I’m not just running miles or on the elliptical. My body and hormones personally respond best to high-intensity training. I use the CAR.O.L bike, which I will link in the show notes, and I’ve done a podcast with the founder of CAR.O.L. And then I do very heavy weight lifting and I’m lifting above my body weight now in most categories. And I feel the best on that.

Sleep was also a huge component of this for me. So I know in early motherhood this was something that probably made it worse, but it was unavoidable, which was not getting enough sleep. If it’s possible to get enough sleep for anyone with autoimmune disease or any kind of health condition, I think that’s a definite place to start. And I’ve written a lot about this before, so I’m not gonna go deep on the sleep issue today, but I will make sure some of the posts are linked in the show notes if you feel like that’s an issue for you.

And then also the dietary side. So without going too, too deep on this, I’ll link in the show notes to a more detailed description of what I did. But for a while after my diagnosis, I went on a very strict autoimmune protocol diet that removed… Basically, the theory is removing a lot of the foods that can be inflammatory and giving the body time to rest and then introducing carefully so you can kind of gauge if you’re responding to different kinds of foods.

It is important to note, like I said in the beginning, based on lab results and lack of nodules on my thyroid, I am considered fully in remission for Hashimoto’s and I do not follow this diet anymore. In fact, I will say this past year, now having worked through the emotional stuff and really found homeostasis, I eat more food than I’ve ever eaten as an adult. I am less restrictive. I still eat very clean at home, but I’m able to eat occasionally things like gluten, sugar. I do eat dairy and none of those both me. I do still have to avoid eggs based on some IgG testing and based on how I feel. But that’s really the only food that I’m not eating at all right now. I think there’s…this is very personalized as well. I’ll link to the test I used to figure out and to constantly monitor that. But in the two years after my diagnosis, I did eat an extremely regimented, very clean diet to give my body time to rest and recover. And I focused on really nourishing it, supporting it with certain supplements based on testing, and just making sure I was flooding my body with nutrients. And it took years for my body to fully recover from that. And like I said, I was not able to lose weight during that time.

Once my body reached balance and once I dealt with everything else and then I dealt with the emotions, the weight loss part became extremely easy. And so I think it’s important to address all of these factors and not expect change to happen overnight. That said, from a broad level, kind of what the diet I did that I think let my body rest, was considered the autoimmune protocol and I’ll link to my post on that topic and also to some books that are really helpful. But basically from my understanding, if the body has an autoimmune reaction, it can sometimes be necessary to removal certain inflammatory foods and inputs for a while so that you can then reintroduce and test the response.

This idea is similar to the theory behind the gaps protocol, which we also did with my son to help with his dairy allergy, but it’s geared towards autoimmunity instead. And basically, from what I understand of this with autoimmune disease, the body’s in a state of increased immune response. So removing these foods can help it not have to fight for a little while and can kind of reduce the autoimmune reaction. I should also say that technically, clinically, an autoimmune disease cannot be cured, which is why I use the word remission instead.

At this point, after my diagnosis, I switched to an autoimmune protocol. And I was pretty amazed at how quickly it helped. So within the first week, I saw my bloating go away, my thyroid felt less swollen, and I had more energy even after the first couple of days. And then I saw skin improvements and energy improvements, and then eventually my hair improved. And this helped me realize which foods were problematic. And like I said, I’ve now been able to reintroduce almost all of these foods, everything but eggs.

So I think it’s…I wanna say that before I tell you just how restricted this protocol is. It’s not usually forever or at least not all parts of it are forever. The general idea is that you’re, like I said, you’re removing any inflammatory foods. If this is new for you, some things that I find helpful, I’ll link in the show notes. The Paleo Mom has a website and also a book, ”The Paleo Approach.” There’s an autoimmune cookbook by Mickey Trescott and her website is Autoimmune Paleo. Those are both really good. I’ll link to those in the show notes at wellnessmama.fm. Basically, a very broad description. On an AIP protocol, you’re avoiding grains, legumes, eggs, dairy, seeds, even seed-based spices and oils, nightshades, so things like tomatoes, peppers, eggplants, etc., nuts, alcohol, and then any other reactive foods.

So for me that included coconut even though that’s not typically on the list. Instead, you’re eating very clean sources of proteins like meats, organ meats, broth, vegetables, except for nightshades, fresh or dried herbs that are not nuts or seeds, certain fruits, nonseed-based spices, lots of healthy fats. I focused on olive oil and then dairy-free fermented foods like sauerkraut. So I have a food list in my post. You can find that in the show notes. It does seem very overwhelming. It is extremely restrictive, but I knew that it was aimed at healing and so I was able to stick to it.

For me, a typical day would be, breakfast would be a scramble of vegetables, some kind of protein, and a cup of bone broth and then supplements. Lunch was almost always a salad with some kind of protein, a little bit of fruit and then bone broth. And dinner, the same thing, some kind of stir fry with protein and a lot of vegetables and then some kind of healthy starch like winter squash, pumpkin, etc.

Another tip from Dr. Christianson is if you’re going to consume carbs to consume them at night because that also…food is another big signaling mechanism in circadian rhythm. So consuming the carbs at night helps signal the body when all the right hormones are supposed to kick in. It also seems to help my sleep. When I first started this I felt like I couldn’t eat anything and I felt constantly deprived. And so it took me about 30 days to really get in the swing of this. I also focused on what I could eat versus what I couldn’t and I consumed a ton of vegetables, especially in that first six months.

And this was also based on the research of Dr. Terry Wahls, who I also really respect. She has a book called ”The Wahls Protocol.” Her focus was on MS, which was what she recovered from. But she talks about the importance of consuming at least nine cups of vegetables a day, which is a ton, three of brightly-colored vegetables, three of leafy greens and three of onions and garlic. And I did that. I actually followed that for about probably four months and I had noticed a difference in my nutrient levels and, and my energy levels as I did that. Like I said, I also think sleep and stress really come into play here and I was taking a very specific group of supplements. This is extremely individualized so I will you what I took over. It is not prescriptive. Please don’t just go take this. Work with someone like SteadyMD to find out what you specifically need.

But for me at this point I was taking, like I said, WP Thyroid medication. I ended up needing to take HCL, betaine HCL with any meals that contain protein because I found I had low stomach acid during that time. So I took HCL anytime and I still take it in smaller amounts. I have weaned down as my stomach acid has naturally improved. I took probiotics. The one I take is Just Thrive. I’ll link to that in the show notes along with the discount. That’s the one I now take. It’s spore-based. So it’s dairy-free, it’s vegan, it’s autoimmune safe, and it reaches the small intestine. It has a higher survivability and you can also open the capsules and even bake with them, put them in a smoothie, etc. to give them to kids because they can survive at temperature.

I make sure to get enough Omega-3s through things like salmon. And then Vitamin D is a big one here as well. There’s a lot of research and Dr. Christianson tested me for this almost immediately, my Vitamin D levels because there’s a strong correlation with low Vitamin D and a lot of health problems including autoimmune disease. So it’s something I test and I also tested my family and my kids and make sure that our Vitamin D levels are not just in safe ranges but optimized. So I actually keep mine about 80. When I first tested it was 17, so it was well below even the conventional low-level Vitamin D. And I think that probably also made a huge difference because while we call it a vitamin, Vitamin D is actually a pre-hormone. So if you don’t have enough Vitamin D, all of your hormones can be off.

Magnesium was also big for me and I used both transdermal magnesium oil and took magnesium supplements and I still do. MagSRT is the supplement I take and I use magnesium oil. I have a recipe for that. On the blog, I’ll make sure those are linked as well. I also took…I made sure to get enough protein and amino acids from things like bone broth and I took a lot of Vitamin C. Zinc and selenium were also important. And like I said, those are ones you want to consume only the right amount, so you don’t wanna just take a ton. More is not better. But I will link to the ones that I take. Again, I would recommend working with someone like SteadyMD or a functional medicine doctor from SteadyMD to really know what you’re doing before you just start taking those and certainly before taking Vitamin D because you can get too much Vitamin D.

I also took a supplement called L tyrosine. Again, not one you want to just start taking just because, but those were all things that were helpful to me. Again, I will link to more detail about all of those things, but these were all factors that for me seemed to make a difference over time. I also avoid very carefully fluoride and chlorine. I have found that both of those are triggers for me and that it’s very hard to get my levels better if I’m exposed to those. I don’t think that’s necessarily the same for everyone, but we have a whole house filter on our house that makes sure that I’m not exposed to those and there’s not fluoride in our water where I live anyway, but I have to be careful about avoiding both of those.

So long roundabout way of saying I used a whole lot of different factors and had to consistently stick with them for a period of years to start seeing changes. I felt an immediate difference in my energy levels and my sleep when I started implementing these things. And that was really encouraging. And also it felt so good just to not feel so bad, but really seeing the full recovery and now being in remission and having my labs reflect that took a very long time.

So I will say like, based on my experience, this is a marathon, not a sprint, and I don’t recommend long-term cardio, but it’s a marathon. So stick with it. Build the habits that let you stick with it and track so that you can see if what you’re doing is having a positive effect. I don’t know that it would be the same for everyone, but for me, I had to get all of these things right before I was able to see the weight loss, before my hair came back normally, before I had all the unlimited energy. And it was a slow process and it also required shifting my mindset, like I talked about in episode 309, from fighting my body to supporting my body because I had reached a point… I was so mad at my body. I felt like it had betrayed me and I realized it had protected me and it was keeping me safe and it was keeping my baby safe while I was pregnant with them. But I needed to be more supportive of my body.

So those are the things that I did. I am now clinically in remission. All of my thyroid levels test normal. I don’t need to take medication. I do still take supplements and I do still follow a lot of these things that I talked about. And at home, I eat probably still very close to that autoimmune diet when we’re home. But if we’re out somewhere or we’re at an event, I’m much, much less strict than I ever, than I used to be. And I’m able to get away with eating a wide variety of foods and not being as restrictive as long as I support my body, make sure I have my sleep and my stress and all of those factors in order.

There’s probably questions I’m not thinking to answer. If you have any, please leave them in the comments at wellnessmama.fm under this podcast and I will try to respond to you directly. And all of the things I’ve mentioned. I have blog posts about all of these, so head over to wellnessmama.fm. If you want to read more about any of these or check out the episodes with Dr. Christianson, Dr. Isabella Wentz, Dr. Terry Wahls, or with my SteadyMD doctor, those all have really helpful resources for autoimmune disease, but I wanted to just share you with you guys an update since I can now officially say that I am in remission and share with how I got there.

I do think it’s a very personalized thing. I hope that some of these will be helpful if you’re in the same place to you and finding the things that are gonna work for you, but I don’t think it’s prescriptive, so I hope that you’re able to pull some beneficial things from that.

And, of course, as always, I am so grateful to you for being here today, for listening to this podcast, and for being part of that change that I talked about at the beginning of hopefully shifting those statistics so that our kids are not living a shorter life expectancy than their parents. Thank you for your time today. Thank you for listening. And I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the ”Wellness Mama” podcast.

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.

Thanks to Our Sponsors

This episode is sponsored by Four Sigmatic, the reason I’m on shrooms (the legal kind) every day. They make a wide variety of superfood mushroom infused products from coffees and teas to elixirs and even chocolate that is infused with ten mushrooms! I have a shelf in my pantry just for Four Sigmatic products and keep pretty much all of them on hand. Some current favorites… my kids love the reishi infused cocoa, and I love that it helps them sleep! I also really enjoy their 10 mushroom blend which contains all of my favorites like chaga, cordyceps, reishi and even meshima. I add this to coffee, tea, or smoothies to get a daily dose of shrooms. As a listener of this podcast, you can save 15% by going to foursigmatic.com/wellnessmama and using the code “wellnessmama”.

This episode is brought to you by Beekeeper’s Naturals, superfood products from the hive that help support your family’s health. Right now, Propolis has been a lifesaver with all of the sniffles and coughs going around where we live. Propolis is a resinous mixture that bees make in the hive and contains over 300 compounds including polyphenols and compounds that are antibacterial and a compound called pinocembrin that acts as an antifungal. Some studies have shown that propolis can speed wound healing. It’s natural antibacterial and antifungal properties also make it great for fighting the sniffles. At first sign of any sniffles, sore throat or coughing, I spray propolis in the throat and it almost always helps us bounce back quickly. I also use propolis before flying to avoid picking up anything on the plane. You can save 15% on propolis and all Beekeeper’s Naturals products at beekeepersnaturals.com/wellnessmama with the code wellnessmama.

]]>
clean no 00:48:32 Katie Wells
324: Increasing Immunity Naturally & Skincare From the Inside Out With Four Sigmatichttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/four-sigmatic/ Mon, 23 Mar 2020 11:00:31 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=424567

My favorite superfood mushroom coffee company, Four Sigmatic, launched a skincare line that is so clean you can actually eat them! I’ve asked Four Sigmatic founder Tero Isokauppila to come back and tell us everything he knows about natural skin care today, from products to diet to superfoods that nourish skin from the inside out.

This should be a great conversation since I’ve also been researching natural personal care pretty intensely to develop my own toothpaste and shampoo formulas.

Bonus for everyone listening (or reading): this episode will go beyond skin deep and really get into how the things that are good for skin health support immunity also. Something we all want to know right now!

Episode Highlights With Tero from Four Sigmatic

  • How Tero created a line of skin products so clean you can eat it!
  • 10 functions of the skin, our largest organ, and how they give us a clue to how to care for it
  • Why ingestible skincare is the next big thing for the beauty industry
  • How to respect and nourish the skin microbiome (and why you should)
  • The connection between gut health and skin conditions like acne, psoriasis, and premature aging
  • Medicinal mushrooms that help immunity
  • Prebiotics, beta-D-glucans, and other natural substances that strengthen our natural protection against viruses and disease
  • Which mushroom to consume with vitamin C for a strong immune system boost
  • Why Tero puts Four Sigmatic body butter in his coffee!
  • And more!

Resources We Mention

What do you use for skin care? Have you noticed an improvement in your skin with diet or supplements? Please drop a comment below or leave a review on iTunes to let us know. We value knowing what you think and this helps other moms find the podcast as well.

Read Transcript

Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.

I am so excited to finally be able to share a top secret project I’ve been working on for years…this episode is sponsored by Wellnesse… a new company I co-founded to create safe, natural and obsessively tested products for families. You’ve heard that much of what you put on your body gets absorbed and goes into your body. We turned this idea on its head, creating products that aren’t just safe to put on your hair, skin and in your mouth, but that are beneficial. We started with the toughest first, creating the first of its kind natural toothpaste that is free of fluoride and glycerin and that contains ingredients like green tea, neem and hydroxyapatite to support the mouth. Our haircare is free of harmful ingredients and contains ingredients like lavender and nettle to support healthy hair! Be the first to try it at Wellnesse.com

This podcast is sponsored by XPT. You might have seen me mention this on Instagram as it’s something I’ve been implementing lately…here’s why. If you’re like most people you set a New Year’s resolution to be healthier, go on a diet or to start working out. We do things like lift weights, run, bike, hike, and watch what we eat. But, MOST of us will overlook the most basic activity of all, BREATHING. Validated by top fitness experts, performance breathing is the most overlooked activity that can do more to help you get active, perform and recover. And I’ve got the easy solution for you in just 5 to 10 minutes per day! It’s the XPT Life app and it will blow your mind.

Inspired by the training techniques and lifestyle habits of big wave surfer, Laird Hamilton and former Pro-Athlete, Gabrielle Reece. The XPT Life App is rooted in the most basic, yet powerful human trait: your need to breathe. It’s that simple. The average human takes 23,040 breaths per day, so wouldn’t it make sense that we should learn to breathe the best way we can to perform the best you can? It brings together best techniques from around the world to improve recovery, resilience and performance in both mind and body. XPT is offering you access to this revolutionary program for FREE. With the new XPT Life App, you will quickly feel less stress, more focus and improved performance. Just go to XPTLife.com/wellnessmama to download the app. Many health and wellness experts are predicting XPT Life and performance breathing to become one of the hottest new trends in 2020.

Katie: Hello, and welcome to the Wellness Mama podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and wellnesse.com, that’s W-E-L-L-N-E-S-S-E.com. It’s my new personal care line that is EWG safe and totally natural. And this episode, I am here with a good friend of mine, Tero Isokauppila, who is a true fun guy, pun intended. So, Tero’s roots, or mycelium in his words, if you will, are in Finland where he grew up foraging for mushrooms and other wild foods on his family farm that they’ve owned since 1619. He later earned a degree in chemistry, business and a certificate in plant-based nutrition from Cornell University. In 2012, he founded Four Sigmatic, which is one of my favorite companies. It’s a company devoted to elevating our daily routines by making every day magical through using revolutionary mushroom-based products, like mushroom coffee, edible skincare, etc.

He’s an expert in all things related to mushrooms, adaptogens, health, startups and punny dad jokes. He’s also the author of two bestselling books, “Healing Mushrooms” and “Santa Sold Shrooms,” which is a children’s book. In this episode, in light of everything going on currently, we go deep not just about natural skincare and how what you put on your body goes into your body, but also about the immune system and how we can support our bodies from the inside out and the outside in, in stressful times and make sure that we are optimally set up to handle whatever life throws at us. So, without further ado, let’s jump right in with Tero.

Tero, welcome, thank you for being here again.

Tero: Thanks for having me on. It’s always a pleasure, especially now in these wild, wild times that we’re living in.

Katie: It has gotten a little wild. I definitely know we both want to talk about that a little bit today and there’s certainly a lot that you can share on a lot of different aspects of this. But to start off, what I was originally bringing you on to talk about today before things got a little wild throughout the country is you have recently launched a skincare line through Four Sigmatic and I’ve also been in development in the personal care world for my toothpaste and shampoo and have done a lot of research in this world over the last year, and so that’s a really important topic to cover. And I know that we will actually tie this into immunity and to some other topics that are very top of mind today. But to start, I’d love to hear about what went into the development of your skincare products, and to the point that, from my understanding, they are actually even not just okay to eat but actually fully edible. So talk about that and how that came about.

Tero: Yeah, we launched our skincare line earlier this year and it’s been a wild ride. It came about a lot through consumer feedback, so a lot of our customers and community was asking for skincare products. They read in my book and other sources how mushrooms and adaptogens can help with skin and they’d seen it in other skincare products more that use mushrooms or adaptogens that otherwise might have not been quite as clean. And so a lot of consumer feedback and just learning from, particularly, the Korean and Japanese cultures, beauty worlds, and how some of these mushrooms can help improve skin quality.

And the problem with me was that I don’t really use skincare and I use like ultra-pure personal care products as well that were hard to find and there’s not a product on the market that fit my personal quality standards. And I wanted more transparency, I wanted more of real food ingredients and that kind of inspired us to launch our first skincare products that are also fully edible. So a face mask that is also hot chocolate using really simple ingredients like cacao, spices, mushrooms, adaptogens but you can also put it in your skin.

Katie: I love that. I am very much on the same page with you about that and I think most people have a passing understanding that what we put on our bodies gets into our bodies to some degree but I think people don’t necessarily always realize the extent to which when we put harmful things on our skin, a lot of that does actually enter the bloodstream, it does enter our body, and also changes our skin microbiome and can impact even through that our gut microbiome and all kinds of things down the road. So let’s talk about some of the common things people need to know and avoid when it comes to traditional skincare products.

Tero: Yeah, just to build off of that, I think a lot of people, like, vaguely know that what gets put in your skin gets into your bloodstream, but like you said, they don’t realize the extent, which to me is a little surprising because when we buy a nicotine patch or something, the nicotine does go into our bloodstream. So we don’t think that these plastics and other harsh chemicals will enter our bloodstream as well, that’s kind of, to me, a little surprising. So one is just getting real good understanding is that a huge part of things that we put in our skin will enter our bloodstream to the extent that if you swim in beer, you get drunk. If you take a bath with magnesium or Epsom salt, you will get that into your bloodstream and relax. And we just don’t take that into account. And a lot of people say that, well, it’s just a small amount, but that small amount every day multiple times builds up so when you use a toothpaste or a skincare serum on a daily basis, if not twice a day, then that’s going to have a big, kind of, compounding effect. So that’s obviously a great starting point.

The other thing is I think understanding the industry is really valuable. We buy really expensive skincare products and also personal care products, realizing how much does it actually cost to make them? And this is all public information but if you go to L’Oreal and Estee Lauder’s website, you realize that they spend 3% to 4% of their sales on the actual product. So it’s very common that you buy a $100 skincare product where it only costs $1 what’s inside the bottle and then $2 to $4 on packaging and the rest is just margin. All those fancy ads that they do and models they pay and luxurious lifestyle, that’s paid by selling you $1 of value for $100 of cost, and I think that’s also pretty sad and frustrating. So those might be two good things to think about when you generally approach skincare and other, kind of, beauty and luxury products.

Katie: I agree, and what I found really interesting as I started researching this world as well is that you’re right, people don’t really acknowledge just how much can enter our body from the outside, but at the same time often will look at any kind of skin problem as a purely external problem. So if it’s acne, they think they need to treat it just with something topical on the skin and they don’t think through the fact that…and we now know from the research so much of that is actually internal. Any skin problem is originating in the body somewhere and we’re just seeing it on the skin as an outward expression of that. So let’s also talk about the nutrition and internal side of how we can improve our skin from the inside out as well.

Tero: Yes. So yes, it would start with what skin is and what does it do? So skin is our largest organ and it’s built from cells like anything else. So if you live healthy or unhealthy and what’s the quality of your mitochondria and your cells will impact including your skin. It’s just a difference between topical skincare and ingestible skincare, ingestible beauty is the time frame. Skin doesn’t rejuvenate itself every day. Depending on how old you are, it could take anywhere from 20 to 40 days, or even longer if you’re older. So when you eat for beauty and have a healthy diet, that really helps you long-term versus topical skincare can solve a problem today, and like many other forms of health, we’re often drawn to the immediate quick fix, right, and that’s kind of a bummer.

But topical skincare can help with, I would say, the symptoms, but if you want to work on the cause, you want to have a healthy body, healthy cells. That also means that when you have a healthy body, healthy cells, healthy skin, you need less product and the product works better. So eating for skin is so so important, and there are specific nutrients that are particularly good for the skin if you think of what the skin does. I think you already partially touched upon it, but the aesthetic element of the skin is just one of pretty much, I would say, 7, 8 functions of the skin, you can even extend it to 10 different functions the skin does, and the aesthetic part is just one.

Our skin will touch, it will protect us from temperature changes, it will protect our absorption of nutrients, even oxygen. People don’t know but the skin absorbs oxygen. But the big thing, I think, to me, is protection. So there’s immunity on our skin. Besides being the first barrier against pathogens, it’s also where a lot of our immunity lives. We’ll always have bacteria, so if you are scared of bacteria, it’s just good to know that no matter how much you scrub your skin with this coronavirus, with soap or others, there will always be bacteria on your skin. you can never out-scrub your bacteria. And wherever there’s bacteria, there’s also going to be mushrooms.

You know, you have your microbiome, also which is your mushroom biome, and not just your gut biome. So both your gut and your skin will always have bacteria and always have mushrooms. It’s just the question becomes what kind of bacteria and what kind of mushrooms does your skin have and are they supporting your immunity and your aesthetic function or are they hurting your immunity and aesthetic function? So it’s just very important to know that topical skincare can help short-term but in order to have long-term good skin, you need this ingestible beauty and you needed to know that no matter how much you scrub your skin, there will always be bacteria and mushrooms in it and that with certain types of nutrients, you can help your skin also internally as well as externally.

Katie: Yeah, absolutely. I think, at the end of the day, that’s the key, it’s not either/or, it’s both and always. And I think that I noticed that when I was a teenager and I struggled with acne, I tried to treat it topically for a long time and it wasn’t until I addressed things like gut health and all the internal factors related to health did that fully resolve itself. So I’m curious, both on a personal level and I know that you do a lot of research in this area for your products, what should we be consuming for good, skin what should we be avoiding for the sake of our skin and our overall health, and how does that work, like what does your actual routine look like for that?

Tero: Yeah, I mean the bad news is that you have to take a lot of things into consideration. The good news is that the same things that you take into consideration to having beautiful skin are also the things you take into consideration to have general longevity, have immunity, have strong cognitive function. So all of these are very much connected. I mentioned one of the things that you have to take into consideration is your gut biome and your microbiome. So your gut health, that’s incredibly important. And this can go both ways. This can be removing things from your diet that might be harmful for your gut as well as adding things like probiotics, prebiotics, good bacteria, good mushrooms into your diet. So gut health is definitely one major factor in skin health.

The other one is inflammation, and I would even say inflammation/stress. Your skin can be all kinds of…have inflammation/stress infections, rashes, and calming down the body overall is really valuable. At the end of the day, probably the best thing you can do for your skin is sleep. The best thing for anything in your health is probably sleep. So just maintaining healthy stress levels and kind of fighting off inflammation, and the gut health is obviously very connected to that inflammation, as you well know. The second one would be stress. It’s very valuable.

And then finally, any types of antioxidants, particularly certain types of polyphenols that you can…and certain color pigments are particularly good for the skin. So we can deep dive on what would be those foods that would be really good for your skin. But to summarize, gut health, stress management/inflammation, and antioxidants, those would be just three, kind of, key things I would keep in mind when eating for your skin.

Katie: Got it. I love that. And yeah, we can definitely go into more specifics within each of those categories. And I think this dovetails perfectly with an area that I want to talk about and I’m so glad I get to talk about with you, which goes along hand-in-hand with this, and that’s immunity. And anybody listening to this, I know there’s a lot of talk about that right now and there’s a lot of, I think, probably overwhelmed and some fear going on. And you’re one of my favorite people to talk to about this because I know that you come from a very level-headed place and a well-researched place and that you’re not going to buy-in to all of the fear, but you’re also probably taking a very practical and research-backed approach. So I’d love to kind of dovetail this now into the area of immunity and how we can all use certain functional foods and products to support our immune systems during this time.

Tero: Yeah, again, taking the 10,000 food perspective first is that immunity, unfortunately, is not top of mind for a lot of people, even really healthy people. They say that nobody buys an umbrella unless it’s raining and that same goes for immunity as well. So very few people focus on immunity unless it’s the “immune season,” which means the flu season. So a lot of people are focused on the flu season. And let’s be honest, a lot of people die of the flu every single year. But the immunity doesn’t take breaks. The immunity doesn’t know that there’s an immune season. It’s just something you should take into consideration all the time and not just because of staying healthy but also because the immune function is so much connected with other areas of our life, including the skin and cognitive function.

But back to the immune function, you will have this internal protection system that starts with your skin. But you will have these internal security officers in your body, natural killer cells, cytokines, white blood cells, and they’re there to protect you. And make no doubt about it, every day there will be intruders in your body. There is no way to, like, protect yourself even if you’re in quarantine of all pathogens. Like, there will always be pathogens trying to enter your body and every day your body is fighting off, that never ends. Sure, at times, those intruders might be stronger and might require more of resistance from your body, and if your internal protection is low, you might get the flu or a cough or prolonged in people with poor immune systems and they might be a little more sensitive to things like cancer.

There’s also another element of this is that if your immune system is hyperactive versus passive, it means that your body is so actively trying to fight off that it can’t even fight off healthy cells and things that are not intruders. This is when allergies and autoimmune disorders can really build up. So our immune system is quite complicated and intelligent but at times it’s either passive or hyperactive and that’s when the daily fight against these pathogens can get really difficult. So, therefore, you should be feeding your immune system on an ongoing basis with good stuff. I mentioned gut health being quite vital for it and for that reason, like not being afraid of bacteria on mushrooms but understanding that those will always be part of yourself and just having good bacteria mushrooms, which kind of takes us to the solutions.

Like, what can you do to improve immunity? Well, again, it’s what you don’t do and what you do. What you don’t do is probably feed off your body with processed foods, sugars, and common allergens. Those might not be the best thing for your body versus what is amazing is things that feed the immune system. And obviously, my big passion is mushrooms and these mushrooms have these particular types of polysaccharides, particularly these beta-D-glucans that are among the most studied things for immunity and they have these immunomodulatory benefits that are able to modulate the immune system either more active or more passive depending on your body is at need. You can also find these beta-D-glucans in small amounts in things like oats and certain berries like goji berries but they are the most prevalent in these mushrooms.

And then the other thing is prebiotics, so good fibers into your body will feed off in your gut, the good types of bacteria and fungi. So adding fibers and prebiotics and adding these mushroom extracts into your diet is one of the best ways. On top of that, there’s more seasonal solutions that you might want to consider if you know that you’re likely to get, in the flu season, hit a little harder such as high dose of vitamin C, certain minerals such as zinc. But you got to be careful with certain nutrients that are promoted for immune function such as echinacea, even garlic. If you consume them on an ongoing basis, they are immunostimulants, they stimulate the immune system, but if you use them on a prolonged basis, your immune system might get overstimulated. So you want to look for both seasonal solutions that might work great for a few months of the year. You also want to be mindful, which one of those you want to use year-round, and mushrooms are great just because these reishi mushrooms, and shiitakes, and chagas, you can consume year-round.

Katie: That’s a great point. Yeah, I’m a big fan of cycling most supplements for that reason of not letting the body ever adapt to it and because then they can have opposite consequences, like you said, at some point and I love that mushrooms are one of the ones that we can safely consume every day, and I certainly do. I know that you do as well as. Are there any specific recommendations when it comes to mushrooms that you’re especially focused on right now just in the interest of supporting your body and your immune system?

Tero: Yeah, I would look at these mushroom polysaccharides and beta-D-glucans like chlorophyll. You probably want to consume chlorophyll on a daily basis into your body, but it doesn’t mean you eat spinach every day. You probably want to have arugula, you probably want to have nettle or dandelion. You want to, kind of, rotate the types of chlorophylls that you’re consuming the same way you want to probably rotate a little bit of these mushrooms. But for the sake of immunity purposes alone, all the top mushrooms have these beta-D-glucans for immunomodulatory purposes, but if there is one superstar for immunity particularly, it’s the chaga mushroom, C-H-A-G-A, and it’s getting a lot of attention now considering where the world is on just the unique functions that that chaga mushroom has and then its ability to support the immune system.

So if people are looking for solutions for immunity, I either recommend a blend of multiple mushrooms, you know, anywhere from like 5 to 10 of the top mushrooms in extract form, so try to find products that have a fruiting body, that are extracted, and they’re organic, those would be the three quality factors, and taking a blend of 5 to 10 mushrooms daily. Or if you really want to have a bazooka effect for immune system, then I would really look for chaga mushroom particularly, like a high dose, over 1000 mg of wildcrafted chaga extract would probably be a solution I would consider, and combining that with a high dose of vitamin C, both for absorption of the actives in the mushroom but also general immune support. So that would be my recommended protocol.

Katie: I love it. And I know also that you live a very holistic life and focus on a lot of other factors as well. So separate of just foods and supplements and things that we should definitely all be focused on, I’m curious if there’s any other things you are changing or optimizing right now? For instance, I’m making sure that we’re spending time outdoors and getting movement every day, which we do anyway, but making sure that’s a focus, same with sunlight, proper hydration, sauna use, which of course, I know that you’re also a big fan of. Are there other things that you’re ramping up or implementing right now?

Tero: Yeah, I think this is a great point. I think when we travel, for example, we often don’t adjust our behavior even though our external world is changing. So we have this thing where a lot of us don’t have a seasonal routine. We always kind of try to live year-round in a similar way, and I don’t think that’s really the ideal. Obviously, you visited Finland, you see how the differences in the winter and summer. So we have to live seasonally and I look at this is a beautiful thing even if I don’t have to today. So I try to look at the external world and also my internal schedule is like, how is my internal schedule and how do I need to adjust my behavior? And right now, obviously, the external world has gone upside down and things like immunity are at a higher value. So I’m trying to adjust my behavior to more be in line with where the world is right now and how is my daily routine?

So there’s certain things I do all the time such as resting to making sure that I’m not overly stressing my body anyway, so maybe extra sleep or a nap is something very valuable right now not to…If you push your body too hard, you are also putting your immunity in jeopardy more. So extra rest is something I’m mindful of. You mentioned the other one, which is sweating in the form of movement and in the form of sauna is also quite, quite valuable right now. So that’s another way how you can remove toxins but also support the body with this beautiful kind of soft hormetic stressors. So that’s something I would be more mindful of now. People love to stay indoors in this current situation, which makes sense, but just so you know that even the cleanest indoor air will not be better than outside air. So having maybe your windows open, doors open, going for a walk, whatever you can do to get fresh air is particularly valuable. So even well-purified indoor air will probably always lose to outside air. So those are things that I definitely keep in mind.

The other thing that I’ve been really ramping up is spices. I think spices are some of the most underrated things in health and wellness, plus they often taste great. They’re something that everybody can afford, whatever your budget is, take high amounts of spices. They’re good for your gut health. They also contain these like quite immune-supporting benefits. So ramping up ginger, turmeric, cinnamon, cardamon, clove, they’re quite protective of the body, and finding ways how you can start adding spices to daily life is one of the easiest ways. And right now, in the winter, I anyway add more spices but given the situation, I’m just like doubling down on more and more spices and various peppers might be something fun to experiment with. If you want to kind of get crazy, various kind of spicy, hot peppers might be something worth exploring.

And then yeah, I’m just doubling down on my adaptogen mushroom usage right now on top of that. But having that seasonal outlook in life, in general, is probably going to serve you well, not trying to live all the time the same way and having courage to go over normal dosages. So whatever is your dosage in vitamin D or vitamin C, this might be a time when you go over those normal recommendations and having the courage…especially with those water-soluble vitamins, having the courage to take higher dosages.

Katie: Yeah, I absolutely agree. Even things like vitamin D, I know normally, I would recommend getting that tested, which might be difficult to do with all of the current things going on, or there might be a delay in getting tested but we know from the research, for instance, that if you have low vitamin D levels in your body, you’re actually more at risk for respiratory complications and all kinds of problems. And so that’s one that I’ve been giving my family just to make sure all of our vitamin D levels are in good ranges because right now, we’re not getting as much sun as we would be in the summer months. Like you said, same with vitamin C, there’s some really strong data on that for the immune system and that’s something that’s water-soluble that we can all increase at times like this.

I also love that you’ve touched on the mindset side because I think that is an area that hopefully we are all working to optimize our diets and our sleep is a huge one, like you said, things like that. But if we’re also living in a state of sympathetic nervous system because we’re overwhelmed and fearful and panicking, that’s also really not good for the immune system and I think that’s one thing that’s on my mind so much right now is just the idea, that encouragement of taking a deep breath, still having gratitude, still finding calm, still focusing on those that we love and community and mindset even if the next few weeks continue to get a little bit crazy but keeping those things, supporting each other within whatever way we’re able to at this point, and just still focusing on the gratitude and the good. And I know that’s often your mindset as well and that you continue to remain in a positive mindset through this as well. Any mindset tips as we face all this uncertainty right now?

Tero: Yeah, actually, a friend of mine was asking like, “How are you so calm in this whole situation?” Like, I’m going to get to the massages at some Asian massage place, and he was like, “How are you so calm about it?” And I was saying, well, A, I take care of my immunity all the time so I feel pretty confident about that part. The other part is I know that like the importance of your mind and how that also impacts your physiology, for example, your endocrine system if you’re constantly in a mode of fear, in fight or flight, how that actually decreases sleep quality, hurts your immunity. So there’s a compounding effect of the mind that impacts our stress, sleep, and immunity, so that’s why I think it’s so, so valuable.

And just to make it ultra-specific is, for example, people are right now obsessed with washing their hands and particularly hand sanitizers. And I think this can potentially backfire if you overdo this. Not to say that good hygiene is not important, it is, but if you’re constantly sanitizing your hands with harsh alcohol or hand sanitizers, it can have a pretty big impact on your skin and your biome on your skin, and that’s why I think, like, soap is so amazing because of those, kind of, like, friendlier fats to our skin and using fats, in general, is a good tip in these difficult times. Just the constant worry about washing your hands will double down on cortisol that will further then hurt your sleep quality, and poor sleep quality will lower your immunity. It’s a vicious circle.

So I think this moment is a great opportunity to practice your Zen behavior and practice things like gratitude becomes even more important. So when things are crazy and seems like it’s been a rough 2020 so far, what can you do to be grateful, what can you be grateful of? And finding those moments of beauty in your life right now, and then if you’re really stressed, adding practice like meditation, or what I love is cold exposure and breathwork. So maybe a breathwork session can actually help mitigate some of that stress that you have. But just so you know is that taking precautions is smart but stressing about it is going to hurt you more than helps you.

So this is a great time to find gratitude and joy and beauty around you and not to dwell on fear that much. And it’s obviously easier said than done and there’s a lot of concerns about us, our health, and our loved ones, but knowing that control what you can control and you don’t always control what happens around you but you control the reaction it has on you. That’s just something both will help, and also happiness, it’s good to be mindful and meditate a little bit on.

Katie: I absolutely agree. I am a big fan of a lot of the stoic philosophers and a phrase that comes up a lot with them is “amor fati,” which means basically love your fate or love what is, and I think that’s easy to do when things are easy or good or prosperous or times are easy, and I think that’s even more important to do at times like this when things are uncertain or seem crazy or out of control. And so that’s been something I’ve tried to focus on. I love your tips about breathing and meditation and cold exposure. Certainly, I know not everyone has access to saunas or cold plunges but you can do a lot of that at home in your shower and your bathtub, and breathing we can all do everywhere.

And just like you said, focus on keeping stress levels down and keeping focus on the positive. I think that goes such a long way toward staying healthy and not panicking and realizing that for many people who even if we get the virus, hopefully, it may be very uncomfortable but our immune system will be able to handle it, especially if we can optimize all these factors. Like you said, rest, get sunlight, get ways to support our immune system. Until then, I know that even as a company, you guys are making sure that you’re keeping up with products and getting things out to people, all of these immune-supporting products that you guys carry. So for anyone who’s new to you guys or to your products, where would you recommend them starting, especially right now with all of this going on, with trying mushroom products?

Tero: Yeah. So for me, the big thing has always been compliance. Health and wellness, both you and I probably do 17 things every hour for our health, right? I know when you travel, you’re a little pharmacy yourself with all these supplements. And if somebody who’s new to it looks at that, that can feel very overwhelming, you’re like, “Wow, that’s a lot of things you do,” and it doesn’t have to be complicated. So there is an 80-20 rule to health and wellness as well and we do the rest because we live the lifestyle, we enjoy it. But if there’s some things where you start…I always recommend first upgrading an existing ritual versus trying to invent a new ritual, and it’s just a more sustainable way of improving and upgrading your health and wellness.

So for us, a big part of where most people start is our coffee products that also include, by the way, the chaga mushroom that I mentioned for immunity. So taking a mushroom coffee, either an instant coffee or ground coffee format is probably where most people start. The mushroom coffee gives you a normal coffee experience that tastes similar to your cup of coffee but it doesn’t give you the jitters or the heartburn. It’s kind of more comfortable for your gut. And then on top of it, without even thinking about it, you get this immune support on top of the deal. If you don’t drink coffee, we also make things like hot chocolate, that might be a good starting point.

And we just try and take things like skincare, protein powders, other things that you might already be doing for your health and try to find ways how to make it cleaner and better for you, you know, not that different from what you are building on the personal care side. It’s like, okay, you’re going to brush your teeth anyway, let’s make sure that you’re doing that in a conscious way, and the same what we’re doing with coffee, tea, cocoa, protein, skincare is just trying to upgrade your existing products and rituals by containing the world’s most nutrient-dense, you know, ingredients and none of the harmful, bad things that often get included in these products that are not necessary. So that’s, kind of, it. So coffee is, for most people, the starting point or something like a morning smoothie with our protein powder.

Katie: I love it. And I should have mentioned it earlier in the episode, but I do have a special landing page with you guys at foursigmatic.com/wellnessmama and I know you’ve also graciously given us a discount code, wellnessmama, to save 15%. And like I mentioned, these are products that are very much part of my daily routine and part of my life and my family’s life regularly so I’m a big fan of the lion’s mane coffee in the morning and I do that many mornings, or your matcha, and then throughout the day, especially right now, I’m loading up on the chaga and cordyceps and lion’s mane, and then almost every evening before bed, my husband I drink reishi together.

So I feel like not just are we friends but you are, through your company, so, so much a part of my daily life and I’m grateful to have access to these products, right now especially, with the added focus on immune support.

I am so excited to finally be able to share a top secret project I’ve been working on for years…this episode is sponsored by Wellnesse… a new company I co-founded to create safe, natural and obsessively tested products for families. You’ve heard that much of what you put on your body gets absorbed and goes into your body. We turned this idea on its head, creating products that aren’t just safe to put on your hair, skin and in your mouth, but that are beneficial. We started with the toughest first, creating the first of its kind natural toothpaste that is free of fluoride and glycerin and that contains ingredients like green tea, neem and hydroxyapatite to support the mouth. Our haircare is free of harmful ingredients and contains ingredients like lavender and nettle to support healthy hair! Be the first to try it at Wellnesse.com

This podcast is sponsored by XPT. You might have seen me mention this on Instagram as it’s something I’ve been implementing lately…here’s why. If you’re like most people you set a New Year’s resolution to be healthier, go on a diet or to start working out. We do things like lift weights, run, bike, hike, and watch what we eat. But, MOST of us will overlook the most basic activity of all, BREATHING. Validated by top fitness experts, performance breathing is the most overlooked activity that can do more to help you get active, perform and recover. And I’ve got the easy solution for you in just 5 to 10 minutes per day! It’s the XPT Life app and it will blow your mind.
Inspired by the training techniques and lifestyle habits of big wave surfer, Laird Hamilton and former Pro-Athlete, Gabrielle Reece. The XPT Life App is rooted in the most basic, yet powerful human trait: your need to breathe. It’s that simple. The average human takes 23,040 breaths per day, so wouldn’t it make sense that we should learn to breathe the best way we can to perform the best you can? It brings together best techniques from around the world to improve recovery, resilience and performance in both mind and body. XPT is offering you access to this revolutionary program for FREE. With the new XPT Life App, you will quickly feel less stress, more focus and improved performance. Just go to XPTLife.com/wellnessmama to download the app. Many health and wellness experts are predicting XPT Life and performance breathing to become one of the hottest new trends in 2020.

Let’s loop back to the skincare just a little bit before we wrap up because I know a lot of people that these are new products for you guys, a lot of people may not have tried them yet. So just walk us through the products that you have and how they work.

Tero: Yeah, so we launched our first three products. We have a superfood serum that gives you additional glow. We use real fruits that are anyway good for skin internally and externally such as olive oil and avocado oil. So again, fats are your friend both internally and topically. So if you want to get that, you know, island skin, avocado is a great source, that Mediterranean skin, olive has been used for a long time, and then we add good oils such a grapefruit, frankincense, and there’s no preservatives so we use natural things like honeysuckle and the frankincense to provide stability to the product. So a serum, which is a pretty affordable organic serum, $55 for a bottle, and it comes in Miron glass, all our products come in Miron glass. If you’re not familiar with Miron glass, it’s like the best possible glass to prevent sunlight from entering it. So when you use these good oils, it’s important to make sure that sunlight doesn’t penetrate or oxidize those. But the serum is probably where most people start on the skincare side.

We also have a face mask that I mentioned, but it also doubles as a hot chocolate. It’s a powdered face mask that purifies the skin. It contains these mushrooms like chaga and reishi, adaptogens like ashwagandha and gotu kola, and it comes in these convenient individual packets, you can just easily travel with them or on the go, just add a little bit of water, put it on your face. And you can also eat it and it tastes like brownie batter. But it’s full of amazing cleansing things like ashwagandha, reishi, but also bentonite clay that is kind of cooling yet cleansing for the skin.

And then we have a body butter, which is the Swiss army knife of our skincare products at this point. So you can use that on your nails and your hair. Again, it comes in Miron glass and it uses things like cacao, like kind of organic plant butters and oils, so just cacao butter. It has organic mango seed butter, which is amazing. Again, olive oil, walnut oil, so these healthy fatty acids is something your skin can use and what’s cool about the body butter is that you can also…I use it when I travel to make a butter coffee. So I just take a little bit of my body butter and put in a cup and profit. So these are really so clean that you can eat them. They’re meant topically but if you want to put them in your body, they’re made out of food.

Katie: I love it. I love that. I’ve tried them all and they’re awesome and I definitely would recommend them. I’m, like you, a big fan of not putting anything on your body that you wouldn’t be willing to eat or put in your body, and that was my focus with the toothpaste and hair care as well. So I will make sure there are links to everything we’ve talked about in the show notes at wellnesmama.fm. And of course, if you’re listening, the link will be there but also make sure to check out foursigmatic.com/wellnessmama to get the discount on any of these products. I just stocked majorly up on several months’ worth of all of them in case we need extra, and it’s hard to get them so I’m well stocked and I would encourage you guys too as well. But Tero, thank you for the time today and for all the work you put into these products and into education and into just spreading positivity in the world.

Tero: Thanks, Katie, and thanks for having me on, and thanks for also doing the education work you do. I come across people all the time who follow you and said you’ve made an impact on their life and obviously, it’s a very difficult and stressful time so taking a common sense approach to health, wellness, and immunity is so valuable. So thanks for the work you do as well.

Katie: Well, thank you. And thanks to all of you for listening and for joining us today. We’re so grateful that you did and we’re grateful for you sharing your most valuable asset, which is your time, and I hope that you all stay healthy and safe and calm during this crazy time and I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the “Wellness Mama” podcast.

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.

Thanks to Our Sponsors

This episode is sponsored by Wellnesse, a new company I co-founded to create safe, natural and obsessively tested products for families. You’ve heard that much of what you put on your body gets absorbed and goes into your body. We turned this idea on its head, creating products that aren’t just safe to put on your hair, skin and in your mouth, but that are beneficial. We started with the toughest first, creating the first of its kind natural toothpaste that is free of fluoride and glycerin and that contains ingredients like green tea, neem and hydroxyapatite to support the mouth. Our haircare is free of harmful ingredients and contains ingredients like lavender and nettle to support healthy hair! Be the first to try it at Wellnesse.com

This podcast is sponsored by XPT. You might have seen me mention this on Instagram as it’s something I’ve been implementing lately…here’s why. If you’re like most people you set a New Year’s resolution to be healthier, go on a diet or to start working out. We do things like lift weights, run, bike, hike, and watch what we eat. But, MOST of us will overlook the most basic activity of all, BREATHING. Validated by top fitness experts, performance breathing is the most overlooked activity that can do more to help you get active, perform and recover. And I’ve got the easy solution for you in just 5 to 10 minutes per day! It’s the XPT Life app and it will blow your mind.

Inspired by the training techniques and lifestyle habits of big wave surfer, Laird Hamilton and former Pro-Athlete, Gabrielle Reece. The XPT Life App is rooted in the most basic, yet powerful human trait: your need to breathe. It’s that simple. The average human takes 23,040 breaths per day, so wouldn’t it make sense that we should learn to breathe the best way we can to perform the best you can? It brings together best techniques from around the world to improve recovery, resilience and performance in both mind and body. XPT is offering you access to this revolutionary program for FREE. With the new XPT Life App, you will quickly feel less stress, more focus and improved performance. Just go to XPTLife.com/wellnessmama” to download the app. Many health and wellness experts are predicting XPT Life and performance breathing to become one of the hottest new trends in 2020.

]]>
clean no 00:45:58 Katie Wells
323: How to Have a Genius Life Using Four Key Pillars of Health With Max Lugaverehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/max-lugavere/ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 11:00:13 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=424346

I just love today’s interview, since it’s not often you get to talk to someone who is a filmmaker, best selling author, and renowned health and science journalist all in one! Max Lugavere is the host of the iTunes podcast “The Genius Life” and author of the New York Times bestselling book, Genius Foods: Become Smarter, Happier, and More Productive While Protecting Your Brain for Life. He’s also the author of a new book, just coming out, called The Genius Life: Heal Your Mind, Strengthen Your Body, and Become Extraordinary.

In this episode, we talk about his own journey of losing his mom and what how that set off a lifetime of research which he has turned into very simple, practical tips in four key areas that can improve your life. Max really hones in on finding the most effective and efficient changes that you can make that have a big payoff, which has been a huge focus for me also.

This is definitely an episode not to be missed!

Episode Highlights With Max Lugavere

  • What fine particulate matter pollution is and how it affects health
  • The link between air pollution and cognitive decline
  • Why indoor air can be 10x more contaminated than outdoor air
  • About the suprachiasmatic nucleus and how it affects your circadian biology
  • Why light might be just as important as food for health
  • How you might be unknowingly messing up your endocrine system
  • The hidden ingredient in your dental floss that can affect your hormones
  • The 3 “Ps”- pee, poop, and perspiration, and what they mean for your health
  • How to used planned indulgences to minimize damage from eating processed foods
  • The important reasons to prioritize protein
  • How to use non-exercise activity or thermogenesis to your advantage for weight loss
  • And more!

Resources We Mention

More From Wellness Mama

Will you make changes based on Max’s advice? What other questions can I pass on? Please drop a comment below or leave a review on iTunes to let us know. We value knowing what you think and this helps other moms find the podcast as well.

Read Transcript

Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.

This podcast is sponsored by The Ready State. If you’re at all like me, you might have perpetual stiffness and pain in your neck and shoulders from years of working, carrying kids and all of the demands of parenting. Or sore hips from too much sitting or multiple pregnancies. I found a great way to relieve my aches and pains and improve my fitness and flexibility. It’s from someone I highly respect… Dr. Kelly Starrett at The Ready State. If you don’t know Kelly, he’s a Mobility and movement coach for Olympic gold medalists, world champions, and pro athletes. He’s the Author of two New York Times bestselling books, including “Becoming a Supple Leopard”, which has sold over half a million copies. He has over 150,000 hours of hands-on experience training athletes at the highest levels. A Doctor of Physical Therapy who helps top companies, military organizations, and universities improve the wellness and resilience of their team members. He created a program called Virtual Mobility Coach. This program is easy to do from home each day, making it ideal for me, and for most moms. And I can do with my kids. Every day, Virtual Mobility Coach gives you fresh, guided video exercises. They show you proven techniques to take care of your body, relieve pain, and improve flexibility. And you can customize your videos in three ways. If you’re in pain, you can pull up a picture of the human body and click on what hurts. And from there, Virtual Mobility Coach will give you a customized pain prescription to help you find relief. Second, you can find a library of soothing recovery routines in the daily maintenance section. They’re a great way to wind-down and practice self-care from the comfort of your home. And third, for athletes, Virtual Mobility Coach also has an entire section of pre- and post-exercise routines for more than four dozen sports and activities. They help you warm-up before your workout so you can perform your best with a lower risk of injury. Right now, you can try Virtual Mobility Coach totally risk-free for two weeks without paying a penny. And after that, you can get 50% off your first three months. Just go to thereadystate.com/wellnessmama and use code WELLNESSMAMA50 at checkout. That’s half-off your first three months when you sign up for a monthly plan. And you’ll get personalized techniques to relieve nagging pain and improve your fitness and flexibility.

This podcast is sponsored by Beekeepers Naturals. They make all kinds of delicious and functional bee products from propolis to honey to brain boosting elixirs. But today, I want to talk about one in particular… B.chill. This is a hemp infused honey made with USA-grown hemp and formulated with a special MCT emulsion to naturally maximize bio availability and absorption. ½ a teaspoon works wonders when you’re feeling stressed or overrun during a busy day. For sleep- a full teaspoon makes a big difference. Add it to a nighttime tea or take on its own for noticeably better sleep. I also give this to my kids as an all-purpose remedy that helps them sleep more quickly and easily, and also comforts them when they have growing pains, muscle soreness or other minor issues. You can save 15% on B.chill and all Beekeepers Naturals products at beekeepersnaturals.com.wellnessmama with the code wellnessmama

Katie: Hello, and welcome to “The Wellness Mama Podcast.” I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com, and today’s guest is Max Lugavere, who you’ve probably heard of. He is a filmmaker, a health and science journalist with a background in journalism, like mine, and the author of The New York Times bestselling book, “Genius Foods: Become Smarter, Happier, and More Productive While Protecting Your Brain for Life.” He’s also the author of a new book, just coming out, called “The Genius Life: Heal Your Mind, Strengthen Your Body, and Become Extraordinary.” His book has been published in eight languages. He’s the host of the iTunes podcast, “The Genius Life,” and he’s appeared on everything from “Dr. Oz” to “Rachael Ray”, “The Doctors,” and many more.

And in this episode, we talk about his story of losing his mom and what he learned from the research around that, as well as the very simple, actionable, research-backed, practical tips in four key areas that can improve your life. So, like me, he’s focused on finding the most effective and efficient changes that you can make that have a big payoff, and we go into the weeds on a lot of these today. The resulting conversation is an extremely practical and actionable one. Make sure to check out the show notes at wellnessmama.fm for all the links to the things that we talk about. I know that you will enjoy this episode as much as I enjoyed recording it.

Max, welcome. Thanks for being here.

Max: Thanks so much for having me. What an honor it is to be joining you on your show.

Katie: I am so excited to have you here. I’m a big fan of your work and especially your new book, which I just got to read. I know we’re gonna have so much to chat about today. But to start, I would be really grateful if you could kind of introduce yourself to the audience by telling a little bit about your story and how you came into this world to begin with.

Max: Yeah, absolutely. So, my background is as a journalist. I started college on a pre-medical track, but I ended up halfway through realizing a love of storytelling and creativity. And so that kind of derailed my plans to go through medical school. And thankfully, my parents were okay with that. But I actually ended up getting a job as a journalist, which allowed me to be a storyteller while also covering stories that were of relevance to younger people. And, you know, the stories that I got to cover as a journalist ranged from the more, you know, topical to some pretty serious topics ranging from geopolitics to the environment to health. And I did that for six years out of college. And for those, you know, who might remember the network that I worked for, it was called “Current TV.” And it was actually co-founded by Al Gore. So I worked for him, but it was not his political platform. In fact, I, you know, only saw him at the company parties. And it was really…I had free reign to cover topics that I was passionate about. And I did that for six years, sort of, you know, getting to hone my skills, cut my teeth with some of the best of the best in the field.

And when I left that job to try to figure out where I was gonna go with my career, it was at that point in my personal life, I started spending more and more time in New York City, which is where I’m from, around my mother. And it was then around the year 2010, 2011, that me and my brothers, we started to notice the earliest symptoms of what would ultimately be diagnosed as a form of dementia in my mom. Just to paint the picture for you, my mom was not old. She was 58. You know, she was in the prime of her life. She had all the pigment in her hair. She was a vibrant, spirited New Yorker. And suddenly, it had seemed as though her brain, she had had a brain transplant with somebody 30 years her senior. And it was confusing, to say the least, for me and my brothers to witness. And in tandem with the changes to her cognition, she also had an alteration in her gait, which is how she walked. So, there were symptoms that were indicative of a neurocognitive disorder, but then also a movement disorder, like a more Parkinsonian sort of complex. And I didn’t have this vernacular back then. Back then, I was just a son who was concerned for his mother.

So, what I ended up doing was accompanying her to doctor’s appointments. And because, you know, as I mentioned, we were in New York, we started at NYU, then we ended up at Columbia. But ultimately, when we couldn’t find a diagnosis for her because her symptoms were so strange, they didn’t fit neatly into the Alzheimer’s disease diagnosis, they didn’t fit neatly into the Parkinson’s disease diagnosis, it was really hard to figure out what she actually had. And so we ended up going to Johns Hopkins in Baltimore. And then ultimately, it was at the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio where she was diagnosed for the first time with a neurodegenerative disease. And that was the first time in my life that I’d ever had a panic attack. I was so scared and I felt so desperate and hopeless. Because what I experienced in those doctor’s offices with my mom, I’ve come to actually call diagnose and adios.

And that’s because usually what a doctor will do is he’ll run a battery of esoteric tests. You really don’t know what they’re doing most of the time. They don’t take the time to explain. They never once bring up environmental factors that might have led to the condition. They never talk about diet. They never talk about lifestyle. And that’s not to say that these doctors weren’t great in their fields, but I was left, to put it lightly, disenchanted by the whole process. And what I did was I ended up looking on my own into what’s called the primary literature, which is our peer-reviewed, most respected medical journals where, you know, trials and, you know, observational evidence, and all kinds of, you know, studies, the research that we all draw on when we talk about health and nutrition and write books about it, this is accessible to anybody. And back then, I was just looking for help from my mom.

So what I did was I used those skills that I had honed as an investigative journalist to try to figure out why this was happening to my mom, what could be done to help her, and what I could potentially do to prevent it from ever happening to myself. And there was this huge gap in between what I was reading about in the research and what I had experienced in those doctors’ offices. So I basically thought to myself, “This isn’t right.” I mean, people need to know that we don’t need to sit idly on our hands as we await whatever is in our genetic hand of cards. I mean, we can take steps today that are going to boost our cognitive health and minimize our risk for conditions like Alzheimer’s disease and other forms of dementia, which one of the most shocking findings I uncovered is that oftentimes, these conditions begin in the brain decades before the first symptom.

So from that point on, it was a…you know, there’s this term that they use in astrophysics, singularity. It was like a singularity in my life where, you know, from one day to the next, I couldn’t think about anything else other than researching this topic and reaching out to researchers around the globe who could provide further insight. And that really began my journey and that, you know, continues obviously to this day, you know, nine years later. And my new book, “The Genius Life,” is really a reflection of all of the latest insights that I’ve been able to glean from the literature and from my interviews with experts and my personal experience going through this with my mother that people can really use to make the small changes in their day-to-day life that are gonna have big wins both in terms of their health and how they feel day-to-day.

Katie: Wow, that’s awesome. And like you, I got into it for my own health with Hashimoto’s. And my background is ironically also in journalism, that’s what I went to school for. And when I couldn’t find answers in the conventional medical system, I started researching for my own answers as well and was amazed at just how much there was that is not talked about in the mainstream. And I think something really important that you said, I wanna expound on a little bit before we move on, is the idea of not being controlled just by our genes, that our genes not being our destiny. I think that’s something that a lot of people maybe don’t fully understand is that just because we may have a genetic predisposition to something, that doesn’t at all mean that we’re going to necessarily have to have that condition or whatever it is expressed in our lives. So let’s talk a little bit more about what you’ve learned in your research, specifically related to that and how we have probably a much more control than many of us realize over our genetic expression in what happens.

Max: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, what I like to say is that genes are not your destiny, but they do help determine what the standard American diet and lifestyle will do to you. You know, for some people, eating the standard American obesogenic diet, they’ll develop obesity. Some might develop type 2 diabetes, some might develop certain forms of cancer, which, you know, research suggests certain cancers are sensitive to diet. And our risk for cancer, in general, increases the more overweight we are. Alzheimer’s disease is related to being a type 2 diabetic. So everything is interrelated in very intricate ways. And I don’t pretend to have all the answers but, you know. And of course, there are genes…there are certain conditions where, you know, genes are destiny. So, I don’t like to make blanket statements.

But when it comes to dementia, which today if you make it to the age of 85, you have a 50% chance of being diagnosed with dementia so that is a coin toss. The vast majority of Alzheimer’s cases, which is the most common form of dementia, are not genetic. They’re influenced by our genes. We have risk genes, but they’re not due to deterministic genes, except for a small percentage of cases, which we call early-onset or familial Alzheimer’s disease. But sporadic Alzheimer’s disease, which again, is the most common form of dementia, but it’s not the only form of dementia, make up 95% of Alzheimer’s cases. And we do have some control when it comes to our brain health. Now, again, you could do everything “right” and still, you know, and I use air quotes when I say right because this is a constantly evolving science and 90% of what we know about the condition has been discovered only in the past 15 years.

But we know that the health of the body influences the health of the brain. And today, unfortunately, we live in a time where our bodies are unwell. If you look, statistically, two-thirds of adults are either overweight or obese. And we live in a nation where, by the year 2030, one in two adults are actually gonna be obese. So this is a startling statistic. Fifty percent of adults are either type 2 diabetic or prediabetic and the vast majority of people with prediabetes, which means that their blood sugar is starting to inch up to a point where it becomes chronically elevated, most people with prediabetes don’t even actually know that they have prediabetes. And by being a type 2 diabetic, your risk for developing Alzheimer’s disease increases anywhere between two and fourfold.

And we know, by and large, that type 2 diabetes is a lifestyle condition. It’s driven by primarily an overly sedentary lifestyle, chronic stress, and eating foods that are associated with the standard American diet. So, ultra-processed foods that are just loaded with refined flours and fats. So, essentially, what I try to offer people is a way of improving their metabolic health, which we know influences the metabolic health…the metabolic health of the body influences the metabolic health of the brain. And the guiding sort of thesis that I advance in my books is that Alzheimer’s disease really stems from a kind of metabolic dysfunction in the brain. And what that essentially means in English is that the brain in Alzheimer’s disease, one of the earliest measurable features that we can see in the brains of people at risk for Alzheimer’s disease is an inability to properly generate energy. So that’s essentially metabolic dysfunction.

And this is, as I mentioned, an evolving science but there’s even evidence that suggests that transient hyperglycemia actually blocks the ability of glucose to enter the brain, which is the brain’s primary energy source, sugar. So, I mean, it’s kind of ironic that high blood sugar, you know, we would think, “Wouldn’t high blood sugar be good because it’s more sugar for the brain to use?” Having chronically high blood sugar…having transiently high blood sugar might actually affect sugar’s ability to cross into the brain. So imagine what happens if you have chronically high blood sugar. So now, researchers have started to actually refer to Alzheimer’s disease as a form of diabetes of the brain. Type 3 diabetes is what they have started to refer to it.

And this is a hypothesis that’s gaining a lot of traction, especially in light of the fact that the prevailing hypothesis as to why Alzheimer’s disease develops over the past few decades, the so-called amyloid hypothesis really has been met with abject failure in the way of interventional studies that try to use pharmacological interventions to reduce amyloid in the brain. So it’s led researchers to sort of question, what is the earliest feature that we might be able to intervene and change in patients at risk for Alzheimer’s disease that might improve their risk, or lower their risk and improve their chances against developing the condition? And it seems that this sort of impaired ability for the brain to generate energy is one of the earliest features that we might be able to have agency and, you know, change our course.

So these are all the sorts of things that I explore in the book and make it really actionable and achievable for people to tend to. And, you know, we live in a time, as I mentioned, where people are just, unwell. We don’t feel great. Most people are walking around, you know, and they’ve just sort of accepted their reality as par for the course. You know, feeling tired and bloated and mentally fatigued with brain fog. And I think that that has a lot to do with the fact that only 12% of adults today have what researchers would call good metabolic health.

Yeah, so in the book, I go into all these different facets. And the four tent poles of the recommendations, they fall under four different categories. One is nutrition. One is exercise, which can be subdivided into two categories. So we have thermal exercise and we have physical exercise. And we can go into those two arenas. But then we have light, the body’s relationship with light and how important getting good quality light is in the earlier half of the day, and then how important it is also to have a break from light in the latter half of the day. And then our exposure to environmental toxicity. You know, we live in a world where on a constant basis, we’re exposed to industrial chemicals that if it were one or two here and there, it might not be such a big deal, but the overall burden of toxicity is just overwhelming our defense forces. And so, I go into the more common of these chemicals that people should watch out for that could be affecting their health in invisible ways.

Katie: I love it. And so much we can delve into from there. I actually wanna start with light. I know that’s not the first pillar you mentioned, but I think it’s one that is not as well understood and one that can be almost universally beneficial. And something I’ve realized in the last couple of years, especially, is that so much of health and wellness is very much personalized. And at the end of the day, each of us is responsible for figuring out the things that are gonna work the best for us. But there are some universally applicable principles. And I think that the idea of circadian biology in light and how it influences the body is not as well understood as perhaps some of the others. So I’d love to start there. And I know that you have written about this extensively and talked it before, but for people who aren’t familiar with this concept, we know that food affects our body. We know that exercise affects our body. I am a big believer that light might actually be more important, but let’s start with this one. Explain how light affects the body.

Max: Yeah. So, our bodies are rhythmically influenced and the chief clock that our brains use to know what time of day it is and then to accordingly adjust how our hormones work and how our neurotransmitters work to cater to the activities that are associated with that, with whatever time of day it is, is light. So light being the primary time center that the brain uses to gauge what time of day it is, obviously, enters through our eyes. And it basically acts like a switch to either flip on or to not flip on proteins in the eyes called melanopsin proteins. And these proteins are actually not involved in sight and they’re not super sensitive. They’re only sensitive to about 1,000 lux of light. So lux is a measure of light intensity. And people can actually download an app on their phones called Lux, which can give them a sense of the relative light intensity in their surroundings.

And what happens when our eyes perceive a brightness of about 1,000 lux, it then flips a switch in a small region of the brain, it’s about half the size of a chocolate chip, called the suprachiasmatic nucleus. And you don’t really need to remember these terms. But when melanopsin interfaces with the suprachiasmatic nucleus, which is housed in another region of the brain called the hypothalamus, that basically tells your brain that it’s daytime. Like, you know, up and at ’em, let’s orient hormones and neurotransmitters in a way that is gonna give you the most focus, the most energy, the most coordination, the greatest sort of metabolic machinery that you can have over the course of the day that’s gonna support your ability to forage, and to find new hunting opportunities, and to find new ground to settle on if you were, say, a hunter-gatherer or to find a potential mate.

So you’re gonna be most energetic and most active, obviously, during the day. Now, the hypothalamus, which is where this structure, the suprachiasmatic nucleus is housed, is one of those primordial regions of the brain. It controls very basic survival-oriented functions like metabolic rate, our drives for food, our drives to procreate. So needless to say, this is crucially important to our survival. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be in that part of the brain. It would be maybe in a higher, you know, order area involved with, you know, human consciousness or something like that, you know. But it’s really in the reptile part of the brain that is just so crucial to our being as organisms. And when that occurs, when we experience light at that intensity, it sets off this 24-hour timer that influences, as I mentioned, daylight-associated activity as well as when we begin to get tired in the evening.

So people who expose their eyes to bright light in the morning have an earlier expression of a hormone called melatonin, which is involved in winding us down and getting us ready for bed in the latter half of the day. So, getting that bright light for about half an hour every morning is crucially important. And to be clear, I mean, the light that you’ll get from an overcast day is sufficient. It doesn’t have to be direct sunlight, necessarily, but just being outside, or being near an open window, or even commuting to work for half an hour without sunglasses on would be sufficient to essentially anchor your body’s circadian rhythm. So that’s where light, really, I think plays a role in helping us feel good. It boosts levels of serotonin in the brain. It can help reduce levels of cortisol.

And this is something that’s super important. You’ll see a lot of people today not getting adequate light exposure in the morning. And this is partially owed to the fact that we spend 93% of our time indoors, according to the Environmental Protection Agency. So, very important stuff and, you know, this circadian clock, it influences antioxidant status. It influences, as I mentioned, metabolism in the body. It influences levels of inflammation. And so light really kind of interfaces with all of these different systems in the body. You know, it’s not just a visual phenomenon. It really influences our biology in a profound way. And at the later end of the day, experiencing a reprieve from bright light is equally as important.

Today, we live in a time where we’re exposed to ever-growing, you know, TV screens that emit powerful light into our eyes. We’re faced with unprecedented artificial light in our homes from our devices. And unfortunately, the light intensity that some of these devices give off, and even overhead lighting in our homes and other establishments that we may visit in the latter end of the day, can easily reach that light intensity of 1,000 lux. So if you were to walk into a supermarket or a drug store at 8 p.m., which is when your brain is supposed to be winding down and getting you ready for sleep and catering to all of those restorative and rejuvenating processes that we associate with, you know, getting good sleep, you’re actually shutting off those processes if you walk into, say, a drug store and the overhead light reaches 1,000 lux. So, making sure that we’re honoring our bodies’ circadian inclinations in the latter half of the day has become one of the central challenges of modern life. And so that’s where I think being mindful of the light intensity that you allow to enter your eyes is crucially important.

Now melatonin, which I mentioned earlier, it’s a sleep hormone. It’s not just involved in sleep, it’s an antioxidant. It is involved in DNA repair. It is a gatekeeper to a process called autophagy, which I like to refer to autophagy as the KonMari method for biology. So, people who might be familiar with Marie Kondo and her love of tidying up, that’s essentially what biology does. And the term for that is autophagy. It’s when cells clean house. They break apart worn-out proteins and organelles that maybe have become old and dysfunctional. And melatonin is a sort of gatekeeper on that process.

Now, when we experience bright light in the latter half of the day, you’re basically suppressing the release of melatonin to a profound degree. And so that’s not only gonna affect your sleep, but it’s gonna affect your body’s ability to repair DNA damage. And DNA damage is at the root cause of cancer and even aging itself. So, in the sense that light can actually affect the way that your body repairs DNA that has become damaged, light at the latter end of the day can actually serve as a potential carcinogen, which is a very powerful concept and one that needs further testing. But it’s perhaps no surprise when you look at all of the data coming from animal labs, you know, and you see the observation that people who work night shifts are at increased risk for certain types of cancer. So, it’s definitely something I think that is worthy of having our attention, being really cautious of the level of light intensity that we allow to enter our eyes in the latter half of the day. And then also, of course, getting good quality light in the first half of the day.

Katie: Got it. Yeah. I love that. And I’m also a big believer in that 30 minutes of light early in the morning, I’ll often sit on the front porch with my husband and sip a cup of tea or coffee, and just be outside, and that’s such an underestimated, easy thing we can do. It’s free and it’s amazing. I’ve seen results in my labs. I’ve seen results in my energy level, all the things that you’ve mentioned. And I think really, like, light seems to be a key because, as you mentioned, we’re seeing a rise in obesity and all of these diseases at a rate that mathematically and statistically does not make sense. We haven’t seen this ever before in history at this rate. And I think if you look at the data, like, what you’ve done, light is the one really logical potential answer because that has changed so much over the last 50 to 70 years.

And so, looking at that in the same way that you would diet or exercise, I think is really important going forward because this is obviously not a problem that’s going away. We’re not moving away from technology and artificial light. So it’s important to learn, based on all these tips that you’ve talked about, how to navigate that and to use it to our advantage versus our disadvantage. And I think based on your pillars, the other one that people…my listeners are probably above the curve on, but a lot of people don’t fully understand is the environmental toxin component here as well. And this is another area that’s changed so drastically over just the course of one generation and that can have really dramatic results in our life. But I feel like people often find it easier to ignore because it’s not as immediately noticeable as nutrition or exercise. So let’s go deep on the environmental side now and what you found when you started looking into the research on this.

Max: Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, as I mentioned, the overall burden of toxicity today that your average human is exposed to is unprecedented. And many of the kinds of harmful chemicals that I think we need to be concerned with, we’ve been exposed to for the entirety of our lives. There was a study that found that, you know, in utero, fetuses are exposed to about 287 industrial chemicals. And I’m not, like, trying to be chemophobic. I’m certainly not trying to fearmonger. But, you know, we live in a world that has just, you know, become mutated in so many ways. And many of these chemicals we’re exposed to on a daily basis and are foisted into the marketplace so that humans are exposed to them prior to really, I would say, you know, the kinds of robust research, that we really need to feel safe about these chemicals has been done. Oftentimes, certain compounds are just assumed to be safe because we don’t eat them the way we do food. We don’t take them the way we do supplements and medicines. And so, they’re not subject to the same regulatory scrutiny.

But in the book, I go into two different kinds of pollution, I guess you could categorize it. So first is, you know, the external environment, the environment outside of your house and pollution like, air pollution, which, you know, a growing body of research is now suggesting is very harmful to the health of our brains and even just our overall cognitive function. There is a type of air pollution that many people are exposed to in the United States called fine particulate matter. And fine particulate matter is basically, airborne particles measuring 2.5 micrometers or smaller. And, you know, 166 million people in the U.S., 52% of all Americans are exposed to unhealthy levels of outdoor air pollution. I grew up in New York City, I live in Los Angeles now, you know, there’s certainly things to be gleaned by living in the world’s great cities, but air pollution is definitely a growing concern.

And what we see is that people that are exposed to high levels of air pollution seem to have dramatically increased risk for cognitive decline. There’s a study that occurred across 48 states and found that high exposure to air pollutants increases the risk of cognitive decline in women by 81% and Alzheimer’s disease by 92%. Now, there are probably confounding variables in this, people who are exposed to higher levels of air pollution are probably in more industrial areas. Maybe it’s harder to find healthy food in those areas. We don’t yet know. But what we do know is that fine particulate matter is after we inhale air that has these particles in it like magnetite, which is made of iron, it’s actually able to enter our circulation and pierce the blood-brain barrier and accumulate in the brain where it creates pathologies that look a lot like what you’ll see in a brain with Alzheimer’s disease way earlier than Alzheimer’s disease would typically present its ugly head.

So, what you’ll see, and a lot of these studies have been done in very polluted parts of the world, like Mexico City or in China, they’ll find that once these particles accumulate in the brains of people, even younger people, they will start to show increased levels of amyloid-beta, which is the protein that serves as the backbone of the plaques that we associate with Alzheimer’s disease. And people who are at risk genetically for Alzheimer’s disease, carriers of the ApoE4 allele, might actually have a higher vulnerability to outside air pollution. In fact, one-fifth of Alzheimer’s cases might be owed to air pollution alone.

So you definitely wanna be cognizant of the air that you’re breathing in on a regular basis. And if you do happen to live in a polluted part of the world, there are things that you can do. So overall nutritional status is gonna go a long way towards helping protect you. So making sure that you’re eating a diet that is rich in antioxidants, fruits, and vegetables, and also properly raised meat products, which most people don’t think about grass-fed beef when it comes to detoxing. But animal proteins provide sulfur-containing amino acids, which are really important in the synthesis of glutathione, which is your body’s master antioxidant or detoxifier. So making sure that you’re eating a diet that is providing you ample nutrition, that’s super important.

Taking a fish oil supplement can be useful. They found in both humans and animal trials that fish oil, which we know can be anti-inflammatory, especially for people who are not regular consumers of fish, can actually reduce the harm that comes from being exposed chronically to air pollution. A B vitamin, a B complex can help support your body’s detox pathways as well. And just, generally speaking, knowing your ApoE4 status. So knowing your genetic risk for conditions like Alzheimer’s disease, you know, might actually affect how frequently or how regularly you allow yourself to spend in time in, you know, areas of higher pollution.

The other type of pollution that I talk about in the book “The Genius Life” is indoor air pollution. It’s a major problem and it’s not just in the indoor air environment. It’s compounds that we’re exposed to in our food, the BPA, which is able to leach out of the plastics we use to store our food or phthalates, which are plasticizing chemicals as well. We’re inundated with compounds that serve as endocrine disruptors. They disrupt the way our delicate and finely tuned system of hormones functions. And this can be associated with certain cancers. It can be associated with alterations in the way that our bodies handle glucose. It can be associated with weight gain.

And there’s really no limit to the negative effects that we can experience when regularly exposed to endocrine disruptors. I’ve become kind of friendly with an organization that I think people should support or at least know about, called the Endocrine Disruption Exchange, which is dedicated to raising awareness for and tracking ultimately about 1,400 potential endocrine disruptors that people are potentially exposed to every single day. And so while it’s impossible to talk about all of them, you know, the most common of them would be these plastic-related compounds. Most people are unaware of the fact that, you know, compounds that are used to make plastic can easily leach into food and beverages when stored in them.

So if you take a plastic water bottle, for example, and you pick that water bottle up from, you know, say, the airport, which, you know, I’m not perfect. If I’m thirsty and I’m traveling, I’ll buy a water bottle. I’ll try to buy my water in glass, but I’m not always so lucky. You have no idea where that water bottle was stored before being in the store. You know, it could have sat in the hot cargo bed of a truck for days, weeks, months, and heat catalyzes the leaching of compounds like BPA or phthalates into the liquid. It’s one of the reasons why in my home, I’ve gotten rid of all of the plastic Tupperware containers and I will generally only store, you know, foods and beverages in glass.

A lot of people will keep water bottles, plastic water bottles in their cars, you know, which can be a very warm environment, especially in the summer. That’s a big no, no. You definitely wanna get rid of any of these plastic water bottles, you don’t wanna reuse them. And even when we’re avoiding compounds like BPA, unfortunately, manufacturers have now started to replace BPA with BPS. And there’s no reason to suspect that any of these alternative plasticizing compounds are any safer than BPA. In fact, they could be even more treacherous because there’s just less research on them. And it’s been known for almost a century, at this point, that BPA has profound estrogenic properties in the body. Meaning it can act like a hormone estrogen once we consume it.

Other sources of BPA, most people are unaware, store receipts. So if you are touching a store receipt that happens to be printed on thermal paper and you can always tell that these receipts are coated with BPA because you’re able to sort of write on them with your fingernails, that provides a powerful source of exposure for BPA. Oftentimes, we’ll touch these receipts and then we’ll hold the hands of our little ones and hormonal disruption earlier in life when we’re children can have potentially lifelong implications. So we really wanna be cautious of our exposure to these compounds. And one shocking thing that I discovered the other day that I wasn’t even privy to, you know, I had known about BPA on these receipts, when we use hand sanitizer on our hands before touching these receipts, it dramatically increases the absorption into our bodies of these chemicals. So, you know, that’s kind of counterintuitive. Most people might touch a store receipt and then use a hand sanitizer or use a hand sanitizer before touching the store receipt. Certainly, you see this all the time with people who work at the registers, you know, which is unfortunate. You definitely don’t wanna use a hand sanitizer prior to touching these receipts.

And another surprising source of these compounds, not BPA or phthalates, but actually compounds more similar to Teflon, which we know, you know, can serve as a potent endocrine disruptor is glide dental tape. So, I’m a big advocate for oral health, dental health, and flossing is certainly very important. But if you’re using one of these dental tapes, like the kinds that are marketed for being able to slide more easily between teeth, those tapes are actually made with Teflon. And what we see is that people who use those kinds of tapes have higher levels of these endocrine-disrupting compounds in their bodies. So you wanna use dental floss but you wanna make sure that it’s more of like a string as opposed to this dental tape. Usually, they’re called glide. You wanna make sure that you’re avoiding those.

So there’s a lot of different potential tips that people can use to better detox. As I mentioned, the three Ps, pee, poop, and perspire. You wanna make sure that you’re going to the bathroom regularly. You wanna make sure that you’re drinking ample fluids throughout the day, making sure that your urine is either clear or light yellow because, of course, a solution to pollution is dilution. So making sure that you’re staying hydrated. And then also perspiring on a regular basis. Now, exercise is one great way of making sure that you’re sweating on a regular basis but, you know, some people just don’t sweat that much when they work out. I’m one of those people. I don’t, you know, sweat all that profusely when I’m working out. But that has made me become a huge fan of saunas and doing things that are gonna increase, you know, how much I sweat.

So sometimes I’ll work it out and I’ll work out with, like, a sweater on or, like, a hoodie just to make sure that my body temperature is increasing and I’m able to purge some of these compounds. But I’m a big fan of sitting in a sauna and really sweating it out. People who more regularly engage in sauna bathing, we’re seeing out of the University of Eastern Finland, have reduced risk for early mortality, which is essentially dying early. We see that they have reduced risk for Alzheimer’s disease, cardiovascular disease, and stroke. So saunas really are a powerful healing modality. I’m a huge fan of saunas. And, you know, just one of the many mechanisms by which the saunas boost our health is that they help us excrete certain of these environmental toxins.

Katie: I love it. I’m also a huge fan of saunas. We actually have a couple of different types at our house. And based on what I’ve seen in the research, it seems to be the gold standard of getting four to seven sauna sessions per week. And most data is at least 20 minutes. I usually am for 30 to 45 minutes. And temperature ranges vary, but I try to aim for about 170 degrees. And you’re right, the statistics are really incredible for reduction of all-cause mortality and cardiovascular events and all kinds of things. I think that’s an easy one. It can be difficult to sit there if you don’t enjoy the heat, but so many benefits. And I love everything you said about endocrine disruptors as well. This was actually the impetus for our new company called Wellnesse, which is personal care products, but most people don’t realize even your personal care products and beauty products can have plastic chemicals actually added to them and in them because it improves the texture or the performance, but then you’re absorbing those things into your body.

And like you said, babies are now born with hundreds of those already in their body because we’re just so bombarded from so many angles. And I agree with you. I don’t wanna be alarmist, but I think when we have this many negative inputs, we do just at least have to be aware and a little bit proactive about avoiding what we can and doing things to give our body a fighting chance in other areas. I wanna make sure we get to all the pillars. So let’s talk about nutrition a little bit. Like, again, I feel like there is a definite personalized aspect when it comes to nutrition, but there’s also some universal things that are beneficial to all of us. So what did you find in your research when it came to nutrition?

Max: Yeah. So, you know, when I first began my journey into health, you know, I encountered a lot of people who feel very dogmatically about certain macronutrients. So you’ll see a lot of people who are anti-carbs. You’ll find a lot of people who are, you know, anti-fat. I feel like the anti-fat sentiment that still remains comes predominantly from the plant-based community. But then you’ll see a lot of people that are zealots on both sides. You’ll see, you know, low-carb people. Ultimately, what I tried to do in the book is to…I tried to look at what the research really says and to paint a picture for people and to make it really actionable and achievable so that people can reach their best health with food and nutrition in a way that is not dogmatic, but it’s gonna give them the most bang for their buck.

And so the two big takeaways that I offer in “The Genius Life” really, number one, is to avoid ultra-processed foods. I mean, we could argue about the benefits of low-carb versus low-fat, you know, until the cows come home. And, you know, what you see online is that argument is something that is, ever-occurring. But ultimately, if you do, you know, just one thing in your life, it’s to avoid these packaged, processed convenience foods. I mean, for one, oftentimes these foods are loaded with these endocrine-disrupting chemicals that we were talking about earlier. So actually parabens, which sometimes you’ll find in your cosmetics, are actually also used in packaged processed foods because what they do is they serve as an antimicrobial, so they prevent the growth of microorganisms that might make you sick. So I mean, it’s one of the reasons why food today is so safe. You’ll see a lot less foodborne illnesses than, you know, we’ve seen in prior centuries.

But these foods, you know, they’re loaded with industrial chemicals that, again, it’s not any one to be concerned with, the dose makes the poison oftentimes. But that’s just one aspect of it. People who consume processed foods, they have higher amounts of these, you know, compounds in their bodies, phthalates, parabens, and things like that. But the real reason why I think these foods are worth avoiding is that they drive their own overconsumption. And this was actually shown very eloquently in a study that was funded by the National Institutes of Health over the past year that found that people who consume predominantly ultra-processed foods, when eating to satiety, consume a caloric surplus of about 500 calories. Now, if you’re basing the entirety of your diets around these ultra-processed foods and you’re eating 500 additional calories every single day, that’s a pound of fat stored every single week.

The other problem with these ultra-processed foods is that they’re basically pre-digestible. And when I say ultra-processed foods, I think it’s good to offer a quick definition. These are foods that, you know, they’re convenience foods. They’ve got long ingredients lists. They range from, you know, the chips and commercial breads and rolls to pizzas, and burritos, and ice creams, and granola bars, and things like that. These are the foods that you’ll generally find in the aisles of your supermarkets, not on the perimeter. They’re shelf-stable. And the thing about these foods is that they are 100% digestible and so you’re getting 100% of the calories that you consume when you eat ultra-processed foods.

This is actually in contrast to when we eat whole foods where a small but significant portion of the calories that you eat in the form of whole foods might not actually be fully digested. And so you get a bit of a caloric free ride with whole foods that you don’t get with ultra-processed foods. And this was actually shown in this study funded by the USDA, which came out just a few weeks ago actually, that found that when people ate whole nuts, they actually passed about 30% of the calories that they had consumed through their stool that they didn’t even fully absorb. And that actually warranted a reassessment of the amount of calories that we assume to be in whole nuts. Now, this wasn’t true for nut butters, which are processed, right? One hundred percent of the calories that we consume in the form of nut butters, in the form of wheat snacks, in the form of potato chips, in the form of ice creams, we mainline, essentially.

So, this is one of the contributing factors to the fact that, you know, the modern health milieu is defined in part by energy toxicity. We’re just consuming too many calories, and ultra-processed foods are at the sort of helm of driving that overconsumption. There is also a sort of metabolic advantage to consuming primarily whole foods. We actually burn about twice the calories just in the digestion of whole foods alone that we don’t burn when we’re consuming ultra-processed foods. It’s a far smaller thermic effect that we experience when we consume processed foods.

And so, that’s really one of the primary recommendations that I make is, you know, whether it’s carbs or fat, if you can, you know, maybe live by the 80/20 rule and 80% of the time eat primarily whole foods, the foods that you’re gonna find around the perimeter of your supermarket, dark, leafy greens, cruciferous vegetables, grass-fed beef, eggs, fish, meat, you know, poultry, you’re gonna get the most bang for your buck. And then, you know, maybe, you know, if it’s gonna help your adherence to those foods to have on a weekly basis the planned indulgence of, you know, the processed food of your choice just to make it a little bit easier for you, then that’s great. Then essentially, I mean, you’re winning if that’s your strategy. And when it comes to when to have a planned indulgence, I always recommend the post-workout setting because your body’s just primed to partition energy in a way that’s very efficient in the post-workout setting.

The other point that I make in “The Genius Life” is really to prioritize protein. So, this isn’t about demonizing any one macronutrient, but to prioritize the macronutrient, which is protein, that is gonna be the most satiating macronutrient available to us. I mean, I think in the fitness community, this has been known for some time, the value of protein. But I think for most people, the benefits of eating higher protein diets, it’s just gonna lead to much greater satiety, much greater bang for your buck in terms of the maintenance and promotion of the growth of the lean mass, which becomes increasingly important as we age. And people who eat less protein tend to eat more carbs and fat.

Carbs and fat tend to be energy, whereas protein is the substrate that we use to promote muscle protein synthesis, which is the growth and maintenance of lean mass in the body. So, prioritize protein at every meal. It can help reduce what I call snacksidents. If you’re feeling, you know, a hunger pang, reach for higher protein food. Again, it’s very satiating. You’ll rarely see people that overeat high protein foods like chicken or fish. You know, like, if you think about when the last time was that you binged on chicken or grass-fed beef, you know, it’s probably gonna be hard to think of the last time that occurred. But if you had to think of the last time you overindulged on foods that were composed primarily of carbs and fat, I mean, this occurs on a regular basis for most people.

So prioritizing protein to really satiate your hunger, that’s something that I think is a powerful tool that is underappreciated. And, you know, I go into the nuances of protein and, you know, why protein is so important and why some of the fears surrounding high-protein diets really have not been born out in the literature and why they’re unwarranted for most people. But those are the two nutritional sort of, you know, keystones that I offer in the book that I think are gonna give people the highest bang for their buck in terms of helping them easily shed weight without having to count calories, gain muscle, which I think is crucially important no matter what your age or gender is, and ultimately, achieve better metabolic health.

Katie: I agree. And I’m a big fan of using the 80/20 principle in a lot of aspects of life. And I think that this is an area where it definitely can simplify things. There’s so much dietary information out there that it can get overwhelming. And I think, like you do, sticking to a few simple rules that have a big payoff is an easy way for a lot of people to really see the benefits over time.

This podcast is sponsored by The Ready State. If you’re at all like me, you might have perpetual stiffness and pain in your neck and shoulders from years of working, carrying kids and all of the demands of parenting. Or sore hips from too much sitting or multiple pregnancies. I found a great way to relieve my aches and pains and improve my fitness and flexibility. It’s from someone I highly respect… Dr. Kelly Starrett at The Ready State. If you don’t know Kelly, he’s a Mobility and movement coach for Olympic gold medalists, world champions, and pro athletes. He’s the Author of two New York Times bestselling books, including “Becoming a Supple Leopard”, which has sold over half a million copies. He has over 150,000 hours of hands-on experience training athletes at the highest levels. A Doctor of Physical Therapy who helps top companies, military organizations, and universities improve the wellness and resilience of their team members. He created a program called Virtual Mobility Coach. This program is easy to do from home each day, making it ideal for me, and for most moms. And I can do with my kids. Every day, Virtual Mobility Coach gives you fresh, guided video exercises. They show you proven techniques to take care of your body, relieve pain, and improve flexibility. And you can customize your videos in three ways. If you’re in pain, you can pull up a picture of the human body and click on what hurts. And from there, Virtual Mobility Coach will give you a customized pain prescription to help you find relief. Second, you can find a library of soothing recovery routines in the daily maintenance section. They’re a great way to wind-down and practice self-care from the comfort of your home. And third, for athletes, Virtual Mobility Coach also has an entire section of pre- and post-exercise routines for more than four dozen sports and activities. They help you warm-up before your workout so you can perform your best with a lower risk of injury. Right now, you can try Virtual Mobility Coach totally risk-free for two weeks without paying a penny. And after that, you can get 50% off your first three months. Just go to thereadystate.com/wellnessmama and use code WELLNESSMAMA50 at checkout. That’s half-off your first three months when you sign up for a monthly plan. And you’ll get personalized techniques to relieve nagging pain and improve your fitness and flexibility.

This podcast is sponsored by Beekeepers Naturals. They make all kinds of delicious and functional bee products from propolis to honey to brain boosting elixirs. But today, I want to talk about one in particular… B.chill. This is a hemp infused honey made with USA-grown hemp and formulated with a special MCT emulsion to naturally maximize bio availability and absorption. ½ a teaspoon works wonders when you’re feeling stressed or overrun during a busy day. For sleep- a full teaspoon makes a big difference. Add it to a nighttime tea or take on its own for noticeably better sleep. I also give this to my kids as an all-purpose remedy that helps them sleep more quickly and easily, and also comforts them when they have growing pains, muscle soreness or other minor issues. You can save 15% on B.chill and all Beekeepers Naturals products at beekeepersnaturals.com.wellnessmama with the code wellnessmama

And I love that you use the term “planned indulgences” versus “cheating”. I’ve never liked thinking of food in terms of cheating because, to me, there is room for that within a nutritious overall lifestyle plan. I’d love that you reframe that for people as well. And I saved exercise for last because this is actually where I’m most personally interested right now. I feel like all the other areas I have very much dialed in and I’ve been experimenting more and more with exercise these last six months in different types of weight lifting and high-intensity training, and looking at the research, and then also trying it on my own. And I know that this is something you also systematize and make easy in the book. But walk us through what you learned when it came to exercise.

Max: Yeah. So I break it down into thermal exercise, which is exposing your body to variation in ambient temperature, which I think is really important for metabolic health, body composition, mental acuity, and even mood. And I think that’s a really important part of the equation. So just making sure to regularly step out of your comfort zone where it comes to, you know, climate control. A lot of us live, you know, thanks to the wonders of modern technology, in a state of chronic climate control. And, you know, this is certainly comfortable and I wouldn’t give up my air conditioning living in Southern California during the summer months. But I think, you know, whether it’s sauna, which we talked about, or even exposing yourself to mildly cooler temperatures, which research shows can actually boost metabolic health and improve insulin sensitivity, I think that’s a crucial part of the equation.

And I give very actionable and specific, you know, tips in the book, but physical exercise is something that I also talk about. I mean, there’s just no getting around the fact that physical exercise is a form of medicine for the brain. And I break it down into different categories in the book. So, we have resistance training, which I think is crucially important to anybody’s exercise regimen. You gotta be lifting weights or at least doing some form of resistance training, even if it’s bodyweight exercises. You know, growing stronger muscles, you know, having greater strength and larger muscles is just important. It’s directly related to better metabolic health, lower levels of inflammation.

And, you know, for people who are listening, like, you know, I see this a lot with women. You know, people will say like, “I don’t wanna get too big or too bulky.” I’ve been lifting weights for 20 years and, you know, like, it’s very hard to get jacked. You know, there’s so many pieces at play, you know, hormones and things like that, that you really shouldn’t worry about getting too big from lifting weights. I mean, you’re gonna get as big as your biology allows, but it’s not, like, you know, somebody goes to the gym and then overnight wakes up looking like, you know, G.I. Jane. Like, you know, when Demi Moore famously transformed her body to get ready for that role. I think a lot of women sort of began to fear weightlifting for that reason. But it’s super, super, super important and there’s been this bias in the literature, I think, towards aerobic exercise, but there is a bounty of evidence now coming out showing us that having stronger legs, a stronger upper body directly related to better brain health.

So I talk about resistance training and how important that is. I also talk about high-intensity interval training and how for people who don’t like steady-state cardio, and I would put myself in that category, I’ve never been a fan of long bouts of cardio, high-intensity interval training can be a much more efficient way of boosting what’s called cardio-respiratory fitness. And I give tips on that in the book and how to really maximize that. Essentially, what it comes down to is doing something at the peak of your ability, for 10 to 20 to 30 seconds and then recuperating, and then doing it again. So really pushing yourself so that your cells really have no choice but to keep up. And in so doing, they learn to adapt and become more efficient. So this is really crucial for overall metabolic health, for brain health as well.

And then I talk about aerobic exercise, which aerobic exercise is super important. What we see is that people who, you know, do aerobic exercise, they have greater endurance, which is important. It’s a way to boost endurance. You can also boost levels of BDNF in the brain with aerobic exercise. Although the research is now validating other forms of exercise and means of doing the same thing. But BDNF has been referred to as the brains miracle grow protein and it’s been shown for some time now that a regular aerobic exercise can lead to not only an increased expression of BDNF but actually growth in the brains of vulnerable memory center, which is important to note because the size of the hippocampus actually will typically decline with age.

And then there’s another form of physical activity that I talk about in the book called non-exercise physical activity. And this can be anything from dancing to walking the dog, to folding laundry, to carrying groceries. So this is not deliberate exercise, but it’s, you know, any form of movement other than just sitting on a couch and watching reruns of your favorite show. So just moving more throughout the day. You know, yard work, for example, cleaning or maintaining your house can expend 10 to 50 times more energy than sitting in front of your television. So just by doing these simple movements, you’re burning a tremendous amount of calories.

And one thing that I really kind of drive home in the book is that a lot of people will do long bouts of cardio, you know, for weight maintenance or even weight loss because, you know, we get on a treadmill and we look at the calorie counter. But actually, non-exercise physical activity can account for anywhere between 300 and 1,000 calories daily. It’s an attribute called non-exercise activity thermogenesis, which is a way larger calorie burn than, you know, anything that you can expect, any number of calories that you can expect to burn on a treadmill.

And there was actually a study that found…it was performed at the Mayo Clinic, where they found that they wanted to see whether or not NEAT, non-exercise activity thermogenesis, alone could prevent a person from becoming overweight. And what they found was that after giving normal weight subjects an additional 1,000 calories worth of food every day, the equivalent of a triple Whopper sandwich, they found that people with higher levels of NEAT were able to preserve their leanness and prevent weight gain to a remarkable degree. In fact, the increase in activity was able to explain a tenfold variation in fat gain between the subjects.

So, just staying active, anything that you can do to not be sitting on your butt throughout the day is crucially important. And for people who are desk jockeys that are stuck at, you know, working desk jobs throughout the day, you know, anything that you can do, whether it’s getting one of these desks that’s able to transform into standing desks and going from a seated to a standing position and just kind of stretching in place as you work or every 30 minutes, you know, doing a lap around the office, taking the stairs whenever you can, parking, you know, at a further parking spot than where you normally try to park, you know, when you’re getting your groceries. Just trying to build more of these simple, spontaneous movements into your day are really gonna go a long way towards boosting your metabolic health, lowering things like triglycerides, blood sugar, and also boosting blood to the brain.

So these simple, spontaneous, daily movements, you know, actually create micro-alterations in your blood pressure that pushes fresh blood and nutrients up to the brain, which is crucially important when you consider the fact that being sedentary for an extended period of time actually drains blood from your brain. So, anything that we can do to just be more active. You know, this does not have to be something that you need to buy a gym membership for. Just, you know, spending more time walking or, I don’t know, doing chores around the house, or trips that are gonna just get you off of your butt. I can’t underscore enough how important just staying active is and not being sedentary for an extended period of time.

Katie: Wow. I love it. That was so much clear and precise and actionable information in such a short amount of time. I’ve been making tons of notes that I’ll make sure they get into the show notes at wellnessmama.fm. And of course, I will also link to your book so people can find them, but they’re also anywhere books are sold I know available as well. You’ve mentioned so many great resources. For those of you who are listening, while hopefully getting some of that non-exercise activity thermogenesis by walking or cleaning or whatever it may be, check out the show notes at wellnessmama.fm to find all of those links. Another question I love to ask toward the end of the episode is, other than your own, is there a book or a number of books that have had a really dramatic impact on your life? And if so, what, what book and why?

Max: Yeah, absolutely. So two books actually. One is, “We Are Our Brains” by a neuroscientist named D. F. Swaab. I just love the way that he talks about neuroplasticity and the hope and optimism that’s coming out of neuroscience these days, which was a stark contrast when I read it to what I was experiencing in the clinicians’ offices with my mother. So it was just very enlivening to me to be able to read something like that written by a neuroscientist. And then another book in a similar vein, “The Brain that Changes Itself” by a neuroscientist, Norman Doidge. both of those books were very inspiring to me and really kind of got me to investigate the topic further and to really learn as much as I possibly could about how to encourage brain health. You know, our brains really are who we are, as is the title of that book, “We Are Our Brains.”

And, you know, the brain is the only…you know, we have so much agency when it comes to bolstering its health. And yet when we look in a mirror, you can’t really see your brain. It’s not something that you can flex like your biceps, you know. But by strengthening our brains, it’s gonna improve our quality of life. It’s gonna improve our health and our lifespan. And it’s gonna avert these kinds of diseases like Alzheimer’s disease, for which there really is no meaningful treatment available to sufferers of the condition. And I truly wish that there was. But taking the steps, you know, do whatever it is that you can today to bolster your brain health and to just make, you know, whether it’s incremental changes or, you know, sort of a one-and-done approach, they’re really gonna pay off in a big way.

And it’s not just our long-term brain health that’s on the table here. It’s our mental health. I mean, one of the most shocking findings, and really the revelation that caused me to write my book, is that the same steps that you can take to sort of buy stock in a better, healthier future, are actually they pay dividends in the here and now. They bolster your mental health in a time where so many people are struggling with things, anxiety, fatigue, depression. This is just something that I think is crucially important, you know, at least to try before reaching for medications, which, you know, so many people are on. And I place no stigma on medicine.

If I had a blockbuster drug available to me when my mom was sick and I could give it to her, I would in a heartbeat, you know, run to the local pharmacy to get that prescription filled. But unfortunately, there were no, you know, viable medical interventions for my mom. And, you know, lo and behold, when you look at statistics, 99.6% of Alzheimer’s drug trials fail. And it’s really not looking good for the future of suffers, you know, with the condition. Although, you know, I continue to support measures for research and to promote awareness. But I think, you know, you owe it to yourself to do what you can, starting today.

To quote John F. Kennedy, “The time to fix the roof is when the sun is shining.” And how that applies to your health is, you know, if you’re younger, if you’re healthy, that’s when the sun is shining. And that’s really when you wanna work on that roof. And even for people who are in older age and, you know, might be suffering from brain fog, it’s not too late either. I mean, you know, I cite research in the book that shows that even when you’re in advanced age and with at least one risk factor for developing dementia, people can have a marked effect on the way that their brains work, on their cognitive function, on their performance, on their processing speed, on their executive function. So, yeah, you’re never too young or too old. And those two books, you know, definitely ignited my journey. And it’s a path that I’ll be on for the rest of my life.

You know, over the course of writing “The Genius Life,” I lost my mother and obviously that was incredibly traumatic and, you know, she was the person who I loved most in the world. And so, understanding why she, you know, just had such bad fortune from the standpoint of health is a question that I’ll be asking for the rest of my life. And so, I hope my work resonates with people. And yeah, again, just, you know, spread the message, spread the word, and take care of yourself and your loved ones.

Katie: Well, I’m really sorry for your loss, but I think that your work is helping so many people and I think that’s a perfect place of encouragement to end. I know that you are incredibly busy and doing amazing work. I’m so grateful that you took the time to be here today. Thank you for sharing with us. And again, you guys check him out. His books are linked in the show notes. I highly recommend them. Thank you so much, Max.

Max: Thank you so much. It’s been a real pleasure and I can’t wait to welcome you on my podcast sometime soon.

Katie: I look forward to it. And thanks, as always, to all of you for listening and sharing one of your most valuable assets, your time, with both of us today. We’re so grateful that you did and I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of “The Wellness Mama Podcast.”

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.

Thanks to Our Sponsors

This podcast is sponsored by The Ready State. If you’re at all like me, you might have perpetual stiffness and pain in your neck and shoulders from years of working, carrying kids and all of the demands of parenting. Or sore hips from too much sitting or multiple pregnancies. I found a great way to relieve my aches and pains and improve my fitness and flexibility. It’s from someone I highly respect… Dr. Kelly Starrett at The Ready State. If you don’t know Kelly, he’s a Mobility and movement coach for Olympic gold medalists, world champions, and pro athletes. He’s the Author of two New York Times bestselling books, including “Becoming a Supple Leopard”, which has sold over half a million copies. He has over 150,000 hours of hands-on experience training athletes at the highest levels. A Doctor of Physical Therapy who helps top companies, military organizations, and universities improve the wellness and resilience of their team members. He created a program called Virtual Mobility Coach. This program is easy to do from home each day, making it ideal for me, and for most moms. And I can do with my kids. Every day, Virtual Mobility Coach gives you fresh, guided video exercises. They show you proven techniques to take care of your body, relieve pain, and improve flexibility. And you can customize your videos in three ways. If you’re in pain, you can pull up a picture of the human body and click on what hurts. And from there, Virtual Mobility Coach will give you a customized pain prescription to help you find relief. Second, you can find a library of soothing recovery routines in the daily maintenance section. They’re a great way to wind-down and practice self-care from the comfort of your home. And third, for athletes, Virtual Mobility Coach also has an entire section of pre- and post-exercise routines for more than four dozen sports and activities. They help you warm-up before your workout so you can perform your best with a lower risk of injury. Right now, you can try Virtual Mobility Coach totally risk-free for two weeks without paying a penny. And after that, you can get 50% off your first three months. Just go to thereadystate.com/wellnessmama and use code WELLNESSMAMA50 at checkout. That’s half-off your first three months when you sign up for a monthly plan. And you’ll get personalized techniques to relieve nagging pain and improve your fitness and flexibility.

This podcast is sponsored by Beekeepers Naturals. They make all kinds of delicious and functional bee products from propolis to honey to brain boosting elixirs. But today, I want to talk about one in particular… B.chill. This is a hemp infused honey made with USA-grown hemp and formulated with a special MCT emulsion to naturally maximize bio availability and absorption. Half a teaspoon works wonders when you’re feeling stressed or overrun during a busy day. For sleep, a full teaspoon makes a big difference. Add it to a nighttime tea or take on its own for noticeably better sleep. I also give this to my kids as an all-purpose remedy that helps them sleep more quickly and easily, and also comforts them when they have growing pains, muscle soreness or other minor issues. You can save 15% on B.chill and all Beekeepers Naturals products at beekeepersnaturals.com/wellnessmama with the code wellnessmama

]]>
clean no 01:07:22 Katie Wells
322: Coronavirus & COVID-19: A Common-Sense Approach With Pediatrician Dr. Elisa Songhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/coronavirus/ Mon, 16 Mar 2020 11:00:38 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=424275

As we are all well aware, a world-wide pandemic called the coronavirus or COVID-19 has turned the lives of millions upside down. We are literally flooded with information but still have detailed questions about our day-to-day decisions that seem to go unanswered. Dr. Elisa Song, MD, is a pediatrician and functional medicine expert who is also a mom, so she knows exactly the questions that are on our minds.

Questions like:

  • Is this virus serious, or media hype?
  • Is it safe to go to the park or have playdates?
  • If we get sick, how will I know when to call the doctor?
  • Should I stock up on food or medicines?
  • Is elderberry syrup good or bad for coronavirus?

Dr. Elisa tackles all this and more in this episode, and I share too what I’m doing at home to try to help slow the spread and negative effects of COVID-19.

Episode Highlights: Coronavirus

  • What coronavirus is, and is it really new?
  • COVID-19 facts vs. myths
  • What’s happening in other countries vs. the US
  • Symptoms associated with coronavirus
  • How social distancing and self-quarantine works to control a pandemic
  • A simple formula to monitor breathing if your child gets sick
  • When to call the doctor and what to do if you suspect COVID-19
  • Cytokine storms: what are they and could elderberry make it worse?
  • Ways to talk to kids about what’s happening (without provoking anxiety)
  • What supplies to have on hand
  • What our family is doing at home to prepare
  • And more!

Resources We Mention

What I’m Using

More From Wellness Mama

Are you worried about the coronavirus? Do you have other questions I can pass on to Dr. Elisa? Please drop a comment below or leave a review on iTunes to let us know. We value knowing what you think and this helps other moms find the podcast as well.

Read Transcript

Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.

This podcast is brought to you by Wellnesse, a new company I co-founded to tackle the toughest personal care products and create natural and safe products that work as well as conventional alternatives. I realized that even the most natural of my friends still used conventional toothpaste and shampoo because they weren’t willing to sacrifice quality. There are natural options and ones that work, but find products that do both was almost impossible. We tackled the toughest first, creating the first and only natural toothpaste that is fluoride and glycerin free, and that has calcium and hydroxyapatite to uniquely support the mineral balance in the mouth. It also contains neem oil and green tea to support a healthy bacterial balance in the mouth and fight bad breath. Be the first to try it and our innovative natural hair care at wellnesse.com

This podcast is brought to you by Radiant Life Catalog. Radiant Life is a woman-owned, family-run online health and wellness company specializing in food-based supplements, nutrient dense foods, eco-friendly housewares and water filtration and purification. After spending over 20 years in the health industry, Radiant Life realized that one of the overlooked components of wellbeing is access to clean, healthy and hydrating water. Now, they have a range of filters that fix this for every type of house and budget from counter top to under counter and even whole house like the one we have. Their systems are crafted with a health and wellness focus. They improve the taste and smell of water but, more importantly, they remove a wide range of potentially harmful contaminants. They also have and in-house water expert is available all the time to guide you through the system selection process and answer all of your questions via phone or email. Their systems are also designed and built in the USA and really high quality. Go to radiantlife.com/wellnessmama and get $200 off a Whole House or 14-Stage Water System with the code WMPODCAST.

Hello, and welcome to this special edition of the Wellness Mama Podcast, where I will be focusing quite a bit on coronavirus, COVID-19, and all of the things we need to know about this. I’m here with someone I really highly respect and I’m excited to share with you on today’s podcast on this topic. Dr. Elisa Song is an MD. She’s a pediatrician and a pediatric functional medicine expert. She’s also a mom. She runs an integrative pediatric practice and has been quoted across the media when it comes to coronavirus and COVID-19. She has a really well-researched post that goes into detail on this, and that will be linked in the show notes at wellnessmama.fm, for all of you who want to find it, along with all of the resources we talk about in this episode. And I think her perspective is really valuable, both from the medical side and as a mom. She’s in the data daily. She is seeing patients daily. She’s keeping a very close pulse on the trends as we’ve now upgraded to a pandemic. And in this episode, she’s going to really go through, basically, what we need to know medically, what we need to know as parents, and how to handle both the societal and economic issues that come along with this and if anyone in our families were to catch it. And so, we’re going to go deep on all of those topics today, and she’s going to really break down the myths related to this, what we do need to know and why, while we do need to take this seriously, we don’t need to panic and be afraid. So, without further ado, we are now going to join Dr. Elisa Song about all things coronavirus.

Katie: Dr. Song, thank you so much for being here at such short notice to answer all of our questions.

Dr. Song: Oh, yeah, no problem. I mean, this really is sort of a last-minute kind of a thing because it’s such a moving target with coronavirus and really we need to keep updated every day.

Katie: Exactly. And I knew that I wanted to make sure I spoke with you about this because not only are you a pediatrician, but you’re also a parent and you’re also a researcher and you are staying on top of all of this information. So, to start broad, I know a lot of people have a lot of questions about coronavirus, specifically COVID-19. To make sure we all are on the same page, can you just define what this virus actually is?

Dr. Song: Yeah. That’s a great question because you’ll see a lot of different names in the media. So, COVID-19 is actually the name of the respiratory illness that’s caused by the novel coronavirus that was just detected in Wuhan, China back in December. Fast-forward we’re actually not even three months from that time and just yesterday as of our recording March 11, the World Health Organization declared the novel coronavirus now a global pandemic. Well, you’ll see the virus is actually circulating and now there’s been a mutation so there’s two different strains that we’re aware of. You may see it in the news as 2019 novel coronavirus. You might see it as 2019-nCoV or you actually may see it as SARS-CoV-2. Now, why is that? Because years ago when another human coronavirus that caused SARS, Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome, that was SARS-CoV and so this one looks very similar. So, those are all the same names 2019 novel coronavirus, 2019-nCoV and SARS-CoV-2 and then COVID-19 is the disease caused by the new coronavirus.

Katie: Got it. Okay. That’s really helpful.

Dr. Song: Yeah. And so what we have to remember is coronaviruses have been circulating forever and so we have this huge range of coronaviruses. They’re named coronavirus because of the Latin word corona which means crown. So, if you look at these pictures, it’s actually… I mean, I have to say from the pictures, it’s a really pretty virus with these crown-like spikes that are sticking out from the virus that then attach to our cells. But coronavirus can cause very, very mild symptoms like the common cold to more severe illnesses like what we’re seeing now in COVID-19 and in SARS and in MERS, Middle East Respiratory Syndrome. So, we wanna really understand that, yes, this is a more virulent and pathogenic virus that is circulating, but I’m so glad you’re doing this podcast because we really need to break through a lot of the hysteria and the panic. And I’ve been telling my parents in my practice, let’s just be rationally prepared. Let’s try to, you know, kind of weed through all the panic and see what we as parents really need to do for our kids.

Katie: Absolutely. And that’s exactly why I wanted to have you on today. And I know as you said that just as of the time of this recording, I know it was very recently upgraded to a pandemic. And I know that now there are travel bans being put in place and a lot of major events in the U.S. have been canceled because of this. But based on the numbers, how many people actually have this version of the coronavirus that we’re actually seeing? Is it more people than the flu? Like, what are we looking at proportionally?

Dr. Song: You know, right now it’s not necessarily more than the flu. I think what the concern is, is the mortality rate, and of course, you can’t help but pick up the paper… I don’t know how many people actually pick up the paper nowadays, but, you know, open up your laptop, look at the news, turn on the radio, scroll through your whatever social feed you’re on and hear of another death here and there. And that’s what is frightening parents, grandparents. It’s frightening kids too. I mean, my son just literally last night came home and said… He asked me, “Are all grandparents going to die?” And I thought, “Wow. Where did you hear that?” Right? And he heard it from another boy in his class. And so, you know, it is the mortality rate that is very concerning. And the way that I’ve been tracking it, and there are lots of flaws in the different trackers, but Johns Hopkins University has a tracker that uses five different databases. So, I do think that they’re probably the most accurate and they update… It’s literally a live update. You can go on there and look at the timestamp. Here in the United States we’re seeing an increasing number. And there are some challenges with tracking and knowing the actual numbers because we in the United States have had a paucity, I would say a really unfortunate paucity of test kits. It’s only just this week as we’re speaking, so March 11 that clinicians like me, you know, out in the field, we are the ones who may be seeing coronavirus and diagnosing COVID-19, but it’s only now that I just have the capability to test patients. But even that’s very, very limited because we are limited by the supplies that the labs have.

So, right now, we know that on March 12 there’s little over 1,300 cases in the United States and there have been 38, you know, tragic deaths here in the States, many, many more in Italy and China. But looking at the mortality rate, we have to take into account given that there are very, very likely and this is not to sound scary at all, but there are very, very likely many, many people in our communities, children and adults who have coronavirus and have no idea. And we don’t know. The public health department doesn’t know because we haven’t tested them. So, when we look at that and then look at the number of deaths, we’re likely looking at a much lower mortality rate than what’s been reported. In the news, it’s been reported to be, you know, anywhere from maybe 2 to 3.5%. Some experts think that it is likely well under 1%. We just don’t know. I mean, that is one of the concerns is that because it’s novel, brand new, the world has never seen this before December 31 when Wuhan, China announced it. But there’s a lot of unknowns, but even in the short amount of time, you know, less than three months, researchers are really trying to identify what’s going on, the characteristics of the coronavirus, the clinical symptoms and how we can better identify and maybe even treat coronavirus and COVID-19.

One thing that I want parents to know, as far as symptoms go, children and infants seem to be really very spared of serious illness. So, we can breathe a sigh of relief in that sense except that, you know, what I’m concerned by is that many children are likely then, you know, asymptomatic transmitters. And what we do want to be mindful of is that, you know, many of our grandparents, you know, people over 70 years of age. Age seems to be the most significant factor in serious illness and also death. So, you know, we do wanna do our part to stay healthy ourselves and minimize the transmission of the novel coronavirus to those susceptible individuals. But to date, there have been no deaths reported in children under nine.

So, now the symptoms of COVID-19. They run the gamut. I mentioned that we can have asymptomatic carriers and we know that’s absolutely the case now. It wasn’t quite clear in the beginning could you be asymptomatic and carry it, but now we know, yes, people can be walking around with the novel coronavirus, be infected but with zero symptoms, which is what we see with influenza. About 50% of patients with influenza will have zero or mild symptoms. So, the same thing with this novel coronavirus. The initial symptoms are often reported as fever which might not be present if you’re really young or if you’re really old or immunocompromised, and then upper respiratory symptoms, cold, sore throat, you know, stuffy nose, headache, you know, all the same things that we might think about with colds or flus which is confusing right now because we are still in the middle of influenza season. I mean, last week, I saw two kids with influenza B that I tested. Just yesterday I saw a family, the entire family of 4 including the 10-month-old baby and the almost 5-year-old boy had influenza A, and I will say, you know, the baby actually had it the least, was the least symptomatic. I mean, he was walking around smiling and playing. But then we worry about COVID-19 becoming more serious, becoming a lower respiratory infection with difficulty breathing and mild pneumonia and then some will progress on to more severe pneumonia and something called acute respiratory distress syndrome. This is what we’re hearing about, you know, patients really in the ICU, the intensive care unit, with severe lung disease requiring ventilators, and then ultimately, their organs can start to fail and they may go into what’s called sepsis, which I know a lot of people are familiar with that word sepsis, may not necessarily know what that is. But sepsis is not good because many, many people will die of sepsis and that’s eventually what people die of. But I do want to emphasize, the vast, vast majority, 80% or more of people who are infected with a novel coronavirus have very mild symptoms and possibly no symptoms.

So, do we want to then test everybody? If I had it my way I would test everybody because I just want to know. Not to stigmatize or alienate and you have to be really careful of that too because there are a lot of misperceptions especially with children that I’m hearing in my kids or the kids at their school. When this first came out in China, there were questions like, “Well, so, should we not eat Chinese food? Should we stay away from all Chinese people?” We cannot, you know, really spread those misperceptions and we really wanna talk with children about what’s real and what’s not but in a non-scary way and we can go into, you know, how do we talk to kids about this because there are a lot of misperceptions. But bottom line, what I tell kids and what I tell parents, the vast majority of us, we’re gonna have really mild symptoms, it’s gonna feel like a cold, so we don’t want to walk around panicked, but we also want to be mindful of the fact that there are people who are susceptible to having more serious illness and we wanna be aware and mindful of reducing the risk of transmission.

Katie: Yeah, absolutely. I think from a parent’s perspective, it’s a wonderful time to talk to our kids and explain how their immune system works and why hand-washing is so important. It’s obviously something we’re all already doing, but something that we can really help get across to them why it can be helpful. Like, there’s so many lessons in this that we can, without being fear-based, impart to our kids. And I think you’re absolutely right. I don’t worry at all for anyone in my immediate family because I know that we’re all in low-risk categories. But I think all of us living in our communities locally have an obligation to at least consider the ramifications for others, like you mentioned, the elderly population that we would encounter or I have friends who are immunocompromised or who have been, you know, organ donors who for different reasons would be more at risk. And also the fact that I know that some of the projection models, one of the bigger concerns is if this virus takes off too quickly and too many people are infected at once, we will run into issues like hospitals being overcrowded. And so making sure that we take into that community, like, effect into account as well as we’re considering not just, is this going to hurt us, but how could this really drastically impact our communities and our economy going forward? So, to that note, what do we need to watch for as parents? I know you said kids can especially potentially be asymptomatic and be able to transmit without even knowing, but what symptoms do we need to be on the lookout for and then also how can we reduce the chances of transmitting it?

Dr. Song: Yeah. So, that’s a great question. So, the symptoms to look out for, initially, you know, as I said, it’s confusing right now because they’re really gonna be mild cold symptoms, and we’re not going to know whether or not you have the common cold, you know, a coronavirus cousin the common cold, the sort of COVID-19 or influenza unless we test. However, I really want to urge all of you listening, do not rush to your doctor’s office. Do not rush to the ER. Do not rush to an urgent care clinic to get tested because what we saw in China is the rapid spread was likely due to many, many people in the waiting room in the ERs lining in the hallways waiting to get tested and if they did not have coronavirus in the first place, they may be exposing themselves or if you did have coronavirus, exposing people who didn’t have it. So, I would call your doctor’s office first. Figure out, is this something that you need to be tested? Otherwise, do what we would normally do. I mean, Katie, you have such amazing resources on your blog on really how to support our children, you know, really naturally and, you know, boost their immune systems when they are sick. And we do the very, very same things. This is not different. I still recommend to my families, “We’re gonna up your vitamin D. We’re gonna up your vitamin C. I use Oscillococcinum. We use different immune boosters. I do use elderberry.

So, there are lots of different things that we can do that would be the same. So, we’re gonna treat initially your child’s cold or flu symptoms in the very same way regardless of what is going on, but if your child starts to have difficulty breathing. Now, what are the signs of difficulty breathing in your child? Well, if they start to breathe maybe a little bit more quickly, you can count how many breaths they’re taking in a 15 second period. One breath is an inhale and an exhale and then multiply it by four. That’ll give you how many times they’re breathing per minute. If they’re breathing more than about 40 times per minute, I would want you to call your doctor. Other signs that your child might be having difficulty breathing, of course, if you hear any wheezing, whistling sound, and sometimes that’s from the nose, we can’t tell, but if it’s also associated with flaring of the nostrils when they’re breathing or really their stomach muscles or the rib cage pumping in and out using extra muscles to help them breathe or if they’re grunting every time they exhale. Those are signs that they’re increasing their “work of breathing” that they’re using a little bit more energy to breathe. So, those are times when I would want you to call your doctor. And again, I would urge you to call your doctor first before you go to urgent care just to assess what you should be doing. Now, you know, that being said, you know, the best way to really prevent coronavirus transmission and also reduce the likelihood of our kids and ourselves getting infected, the number one is washing hands. And I know that you’re seeing that in the news. It’s so common sense, but really and truly, this is so important.

There was one study… There were statisticians that looked at airports and really looked at what could the impact be of properly washing our hands? And I’ll go into what properly means. But the first statistic to know is that, you know, when people have kind of watched, you know, other people in the bathroom after they’ve gone to the bathroom and, you know, leave the restroom, about a third, one in three people don’t wash their hands after going to the bathroom. And so that’s something that is really startling. And I would bet that many more kids don’t wash their hands after going to the bathroom. So, just, you know, talk with your kids about that. And then they looked at, you know, were they doing it the right way? And when they looked at that, they saw that only about 50% of those people who actually did wash their hands were doing it the right way. And I can tell you when I’ve watched my son, right, what does he do? Run his hands quickly under the water. Maybe just put a tiny little bit of soap on and wet his hands and that’s it. Right? That’s not proper hand-washing. So, how do we do it the right way? And I wrote a blog on how to teach your kids how to wash their hands the right way because this is really, really important. We wanna wash their hands I would say at least 30 seconds because some of the studies looking at influenza virus they found that 30 seconds is really what we need to do. Not singing your ABCs one time through, right? Most people can sing their ABCs in about 30 seconds. So, we wanna wet our hands, lather with soap, and then what’s really, really important, get not just your palms like most people do, backs of the hands, in between our fingers and under our nails. And you can get under your nails by opening up your palm and rubbing your nails on the inside of your palm and doing that for 30 seconds. And then we wanna rinse and dry and then, of course, we wanna… When we turn off the faucet if we’re in a public restroom, not so much in our own home, but in a public restroom, you wanna turn off that faucet either with a paper towel you use or with your elbow or something else because we don’t wanna recontaminate our clean hands. But why is this important? They found that if people could wash their hands the right way, if just 60% of air travelers wash their hands in the right way and maintain clean hands, it could slow down the spread of coronavirus infections by almost 70%. That’s huge.

And really, you know, one of the things that I looked at, it wasn’t clear in the beginning of what was then the epidemic now the pandemic was, could this novel coronavirus live on surfaces like, you know, handrails, you know, like your cell phone, laptops, countertops? It wasn’t sure. But now we know, yes, it can live on surfaces. And when we look at other similar coronaviruses like the SARS coronavirus, the MERS coronavirus studies have found that, you know, we know that the coronavirus can live on surfaces for at least three hours, but maybe even up to nine days. Now, that is not to panic you, but to let you know that if you’re out and about and you’re touching anything and, of course, we are touching things all the time, you want to make sure that you wash your hands effectively before you eat, before you touch your face at all. Now, when we… That’s another issue too. I was just actually… I spoke with a reporter who wanted to get my tips as a pediatrician on how do we keep our kids’ hands away from our faces? Right? I know, you know, Bodi… And not that Kenzi is perfect in all of this, but, you know, Bodi is younger and he just… I mean, he’s just a little grosser, right? I mean, he kind of touches things all the time, puts his hands in his mouth. I mean, he’s just, you know, everywhere. And so really, you know, how do we keep our kids’ hands away from their eyes, their nose, and their mouth? Because we know that, you know, adults, when they’ve looked at adults, we touch our faces at least on average 23 times an hour. That’s more than once every three seconds. And for kids, it’s likely more than that. And, you know, when we do touch our face, it’s usually around our mucous membranes, eyes, nose, and mouth exactly where we can have coronavirus enter. So, we don’t want our kids to panic, or we don’t want them… We don’t want to constantly be nagging them, “Stop touching your face. Don’t do that.” What we wanna really do first is helping kids be aware of when they’re touching their face because if we’re not aware and paying attention, we can’t stop that habit. So first have them just notice, while you’re sitting at the dinner table while you’re sitting reading a book, notice how often they’re touching their face. And then when we ask… When we want them to stop doing that, instead of saying, “Stop touching your face,” you wanna frame it in a little more positive way. We wanna frame it in the way that we’re telling them what to do, what positive action to take instead of what not to do. “Keep your hands down. Keep your hands in front of you. Put your hands on the table.” Whatever it is that we want them to do, but, you know, bottom line, we want them to stop touching their face, but if we constantly nag and yell at them, they’re gonna tune that out eventually. So, we wanna frame it in that more positive way, right?

And then, you know, with washing hands… I mean, washing hands with soap and water is the number one way to keep our hands effectively clean if we’re doing it the right way, but we’re out a lot and many of us are hunkering down. Some schools have closed, so your kids are gonna be at home more and maybe not out in public places and so you have your bathroom to wash your hands with soap and water, but many times we don’t have that. And so, you know, hand sanitizers are the next best thing, but when the studies have looked at what actually can kill or inactivate coronaviruses, human coronaviruses on surfaces, what they found to be the most effective, a few things, but one of the things that was found to be most effective is an alcohol solution with at least 60% alcohol. They’ve also found that like 0.5% hydrogen peroxide or a point 0.1% bleach solution can be effective, but we’re not gonna… Hydrogen peroxide and bleach may be fine on surfaces, but that’s not what we’re gonna sanitize our hands with. So, that’s where you’ll see the recommendations online, at least a 60% alcohol-based hand sanitizer. Now, if you’ve gone to the store or if you’ve gone on Amazon, I mean, there’s no Purell to be found unless… well, that’s not true. There may be, but it might be $100 for a tiny little bottle, right? And so, you know, there are lots of ways that we can make our own hand sanitizers and I know that you’ve written about that as well, but we wanna make sure it’s at least a 60% alcohol base. With that, you know, I just literally yesterday put up a blog post of how do we do that, because it does take some math, some calculations, and you might have different percentages of isopropyl rubbing alcohol. So, if you have a 99% rubbing alcohol, you’re basically gonna do two parts alcohol to one part aloe vera gel. If you’re allergic to aloe vera gel and I just had a mom, you know, comment that she just can’t find any aloe vera gel, you can use glycerin. That’s a fine substitute. More commonly you’ll see 70% rubbing alcohol or isopropyl alcohol. So, with that, you need to use more alcohol to aloe vera gel to make it a 60% solution. So, nine parts alcohol to one part aloe vera gel. And so I have three different options with the rubbing alcohol depending on what percentage you have whether you have 99%, 91% or 70% in an article that I literally just put up yesterday and, you know, parents are really appreciating that practical breakdown, right? Because if we’re gonna go through the effort of making our own hand sanitizer, we want it to be effective.

Katie: That makes so much sense. And I love that you… You’re right. I do have a post. I know you do as well. I’ll link to both about the hand sanitizers and a lot of the things you just mentioned. And I love that you also mentioned vitamin D because this is something I always am cognizant of this time of year anyway because I know I’ve read data that having optimal vitamin D levels can reduce the risk of a lot of respiratory issues and the severity of lots of types of illnesses. So, even if we’re not worried about coronavirus, this is still cold and flu season, there’s still a lot going around. And I know you can speak to this better than I can, but since it is a fat-soluble vitamin, it’s one you don’t want to just overdose on. So, I know I test our whole family this time of year and make sure our levels are within range, but I feel like that is one evidence-backed thing that I think is important to be aware of and to take this time of year. Do you have any additional advice on the vitamin D front?

Dr. Song: Absolutely. So, one thing that I just wanna make sure people know is that as of now, we have no idea what an effective treatment against COVID-19 will be, whether it’s pharmaceutical or natural. We just don’t know. I mean, this is a brand new virus. And so I do want people to, you know, exercise caution and use their common sense when reading, you know, any number of posts online that may claim that certain natural supplements may treat and cure COVID-19. Now, that being said, we know that there are a lot of things that can theoretically help reduce our likelihood of getting the new coronavirus in the first place and significantly reducing our symptoms. And we have evidence for that, which is, you know, for me, as a pediatrician, I really wanna make sure that I’m recommending things that have solid evidence of potential good and also are not gonna harm. So, vitamin D, as you said, I mean, that is one of the supplements that I am the most religious about in terms of giving my family and myself to keep us healthy throughout the wintertime because there are so many other germs circulating besides just this. And you’re in Florida, but even in Florida where the sun is shining and kids are outdoors a lot more, many, many kids, in fact, the vast majority are still deficient or insufficient in vitamin D. So, I do recommend testing if you have that option because, you know, as Katie mentioned, vitamin D is fat-soluble, it does get stored up in your fat cells. It potentially can get to “toxic levels,” although, you know, I have never ever seen that even in kids who are taking quite high doses.

But why vitamin D? Well, when we look at COVID-19, and I had mentioned that one of the complications that we worry about, although not common, but, you know, can be fatal is sepsis. And we know that vitamin D actually can help reduce your likelihood of developing sepsis if you get any infection. It’s been called a “pro-survival molecule” and it actually helps our body produce a protein called cathelicidin that has amazing antiviral and antibacterial properties. So, maintaining our vitamin D levels at really optimal healthy levels is really key to keeping our immune system strong. Keeping our immune system strong with the right foods and with the right supplements is I do believe going to be the key to keeping us healthy and keeping our own coronavirus illnesses as mild as possible. So, you know, in general, once our levels are “optimal,” the maintenance dose recommended by the vitamin D council of vitamin D3 supplementation is 1,000 IUs per 25 pounds of body weight up to, you know, 100 pounds and then they really, you know, have you… recommend limiting it to 5,000 IUs daily unless you can monitor it with your physician. So, I mean, my kids are getting, you know, 3,000 and 4,000 IUs of vitamin D3 per day. They are 8 and 10 years of age and that’s the appropriate dose according to their weight. And I know they have good levels because I’ve checked them. I take 5,000 a day, but if I’m starting to feel a little under the weather, I’ll take a little bit more.

So, there’s vitamin D and then I’d also mentioned vitamin C. Now, vitamin C. What they found in studies is that IV vitamin C when given in the intensive care unit to patients with sepsis, you know, full organ failure, multi-system organ failure, can significantly absolutely reduce the death rate compared to those patients who didn’t receive vitamin C. So, you know, I’m not gonna say that vitamin C will cure you of coronavirus if you do contract it, but certainly as a powerful antioxidant, it is a very important part I think of prevention and if we start to feel sick, you know, really, you know, helping support our immune systems to fight and ward off any infections. Really when we’re sick with any infection, our body creates inflammation, of course, and produces a lot of free radicals. It’s these free radicals that make us feel sick. When we have more free radicals we feel more sick. So, that’s why, you know, when we see people with a range of symptoms, it is, I do believe, those people who have a higher level of antioxidant reserve that don’t feel as sick and don’t get as sick and, you know, don’t get as many complications because those free radicals once they’ve done their job, you know, we want them around to fight the infection, but once they’ve done their job, we want to bring those free radicals down, get rid of them and mop them up with antioxidants. And antioxidants are gonna be, you know, vitamin C, vitamin A, vitamin E, think all the colorful fruits and vegetables, which is why we have to go back to the foundations of how do we keep our immune system healthy and really looking at food as medicine, getting rid of the sugar because sugar absolutely suppresses our immune system’s ability to fight off infections. So, this is not the time to be… If your children are, you know, anxious or fearful, we don’t want to give them sweets or, you know, treats that then help them maybe feel better temporarily because a lot of us may think about doing that. Oh, I know, you know, reach for the ice cream when we’re nervous. But we don’t wanna do that right now. We wanna really, you know, help our kids with their anxieties in another way, not using food and really using the power of food to keep our immune system strong.

Katie: A 100% in agreement with you on that. And to echo what you said, I think it’s important to realize this is a virus, so it’s not something that we have, like you said, even conventional treatments or cures for, but with any illness, we always have the option to support our immune system, to support our overall health, to get good sleep, to spend time outside, to take vitamin C. The things we do know have a benefit just for overall health and for supporting the immune system, and that’s something positive we can focus on versus falling into the fear side which is also bad for your immune system to begin with.

This podcast is brought to you by Wellnesse… a new company I co-founded to tackle the toughest personal care products and create natural and safe products that work as well as conventional alternatives. I realized that even the most natural of my friends still used conventional toothpaste and shampoo because they weren’t willing to sacrifice quality. There are natural options and ones that work, but find products that do both was almost impossible. We tackled the toughest first, creating the first and only natural toothpaste that is fluoride and glycerin free, and that has calcium and hydroxyapatite to uniquely support the mineral balance in the mouth. It also contains neem oil and green tea to support a healthy bacterial balance in the mouth and fight bad breath. Be the first to try it and our innovative natural hair care at wellnesse.com

This podcast is brought to you by Radiant Life Catalog. Radiant Life is a woman-owned, family-run online health and wellness company specializing in food-based supplements, nutrient dense foods, eco-friendly housewares and water filtration and purification. After spending over 20 years in the health industry, Radiant Life realized that one of the overlooked components of wellbeing is access to clean, healthy and hydrating water. Now, they have a range of filters that fix this for every type of house and budget from counter top to under counter and even whole house like the one we have. Their systems are crafted with a health and wellness focus. They improve the taste and smell of water but, more importantly, they remove a wide range of potentially harmful contaminants. They also have and in-house water expert is available all the time to guide you through the system selection process and answer all of your questions via phone or email. Their systems are also designed and built in the USA and really high quality. Go to radiantlife.com/wellnessmama and get $200 off a Whole House or 14-Stage Water System with the code WMPODCAST.

I know one question that comes up around this and I’ve been getting online as well, is to do with explaining what a cytokine storm is and ways that we can help our body to, again, have a strong immune system and to be able to handle if that was an issue, because I know that’s something that apparently from what I understand, at least, a lot of these mortalities are related to sepsis, not to the actual virus itself. And the cytokine storm comes into play here, but I know… Can you explain this a little bit better?

Dr. Song: Absolutely. So, you’re right on in that, you know, typically let’s say with, you know, even with influenza, but also with the coronavirus with SARS or the current coronavirus, it’s our own body’s reaction, our own immune system’s reaction that, you know, makes us symptomatic. And oftentimes, the actual infection, right, the coronavirus may be completely eradicated. It’s not there anymore. But the inflammatory cytokines that your immune system have produced, then creates this cascade of effects that then can create what a lot of people are now talking about this “cytokine storm.” Now, this is not a new concept. In fact, even last year, every time influenza season comes around, there’s questions about the cytokine storm, then the next question is, “Well, should I use elderberry because can’t elderberry cause a cytokine storm?” And there’s so much information out there and I’ve seen both sides say absolutely, no elderberries. If you’re… During the flu season and if you’re sick, elderberry is completely fine. And I think it’s somewhere in the middle. Remember with sepsis, the cytokine storm, it really… If we can have enough antioxidants on board to mop up those free radicals and those inflammatory cytokines, that’s gonna be the most protective thing. So, when we look at elderberry, in particular… And this post that I actually did on elderberry, I called it “Elderberry and the Cytokine Storm. Do you need to worry?” I mean, it’s still, years later, one of my most popular posts and I’m being asked about it.

So, I do want to write a post with more evidence, but what I want people to understand and parents to understand is that elderberry does have immunostimulatory effects, but in beneficial ways, right? So, yes, it can actually create increased levels of inflammatory cytokines. And we wanna really understand that inflammation is not a bad thing, right? Just like when you get a cut and maybe there’s a little pus and a little redness and then it heals, that’s inflammation, right? When you get an illness and your body mounts a fever, that’s inflammation. But those are beneficial because they’re helping us fight whatever is going on. So, that’s inflammatory cytokines. And then we have anti-inflammatory cytokines that are also produced by elderberry. So, when we have inflammation that’s normal and healthy, we also need, you know, anti-inflammatory cytokines to come and say, “Well, you’ve done your job. Let’s regulate the immune system and go back down to baseline.” Go back down to our usual state of good health and hopefully we are in a usual state of good health. Now, that’s where I think it can be sort of a double-edged sword. I think that elderberry can be beneficial. But I also think you can have too much of a good thing. So, I am not recommending that people take elderberry on a daily basis right now, but I am, you know, still using elderberry for my own patients when they come in with flu-like symptoms because I know how beneficial it can be to help fight that infection initially and then reduce the inflammatory response as they’re healing. So, you know, that is where, you know, we wanna just understand that, you know, inflammatory cytokines is not a bad thing. Cytokine storm, yes, a bad thing, but elderberry is not necessarily the evil that some are making it out to be.

Katie: Good to know. Yeah. Thank you for clearing that up. And I know people still have a lot of concerns, especially in the last 24 hours even there have been travel bans that are announced. What’s your take both as a doctor and as a parent on if we should be avoiding travel at this point? And if people are going to travel, do things like, for instance, wearing a face mask, will that actually help because I’ve seen conflicting reports on if that’s even effective?

Dr. Song: Yeah. That’s such a good question. I mean, that is the million-dollar question, right, because as we head to… I mean, some kids have spring break next week. In my school, you know, our kids have spring break in the middle of April. So, we’re now in this next month of, you know, a lot of travel plans. And a lot of these travel plans will include flying. Now, the U.S. just announced that there is a travel ban to and from Europe. So, you know, for folks who have had…. you know, made travel plans to go to Europe over spring break, that decision has been made for them. But domestic travel, families who have planned to go to Disneyland next week or families… My sister in Colorado, had plans to fly with her, her husband and her two, you know, almost-three-year-old twin girls to Florida to see my mom and my stepdad, you know, both of whom are in their ’70s. And my mother, you know, just in November was diagnosed with esophageal cancer and went through her chemo and had surgery and she’s recovering. So, what do we do there? Right? And so we wanna think, who are we gonna visit? What are our risks for contracting coronavirus? How do we minimize those risks? And so, you know, I will say if you are traveling to see potentially vulnerable people like maybe your elderly parents, your grandparents in this case, I would reconsider right now because we are sort of on the cusp. We’re sort of in this… I don’t want to call it a honeymoon period because we are seeing people getting sick and, of course, people dying in the States. But we’re in this window where the projections are that in the next couple of weeks we are going to see many, many more numbers, you know, rapid doubling. So, we’re not there yet. So, on the one hand, perhaps this is a good time to travel. On the other hand, we don’t want to be one of those vectors for increasing the spread. So, if you do decide to travel, there are things that you can do to minimize your exposures.

Now, with masks, you know, the surgical masks that you see that have all the gaps on the side, those are not gonna do anything to prevent you from getting coronavirus infections. Those, however, will prevent others from getting infections from you if you are sneezing or coughing. So, you know, if you do or your child does have any upper respiratory symptoms, I would not fly because you are then exposing all the other people on the plane. But if you are healthy and you do choose to fly which I do know many families who are, wearing what’s called an N95 mask that filters out, you know, at least 95% of the particulate matter may be effective. My husband, actually, he’s going to Las Vegas for a hockey tournament. He’s leaving today. We had a discussion, decided, you know, he would go but, you know, he will likely be wearing a mask on the plane just to prevent himself from getting any unwanted exposures. The mask does have to be really well fitted. There cannot be gaps. And unfortunately, there are no N95 masks that are gonna fit a child’s face well enough to protect against coronavirus or even influenza virus infection. So, if you’re traveling with kids, that’s really probably not going to be an effective option. The other concern too just from a public health standpoint is we really do need to… I mean, there’s been a run on masks. You’re not gonna be able to find N95 masks if you don’t have them already. I happen to have them because of the fires here, the tragic fires in California. So, we’ve had them, you know, for the past couple of years, actually, the past three years when we’ve had these, you know, horrible forest fires in Northern California and the air quality has been so, you know, devastatingly horrible. But, you know, we do wanna be mindful of the fact that, you know, we are at risk for running out of protective gear and supplies for, you know, really the medical professionals, the doctors and the nurses who are in the ERs and the ICUs who will be caring for sick patients.

So, what would I do if I did choose to fly? Just make sure, remember the surfaces, right? All the surfaces that your kids could touch. I do wipe them down now. I used to think, “Oh, I’m not gonna wipe down. That’s okay. I’m not gonna be worried about that.” But you know the screen in front of you, the handle, your armrest, the seat button that reclines the chair, the window shade, the seat belt buckle. I wipe down all of that. And again, in this case, right now, I would use hand wipes that have at least 60% alcohol in them. When you’re wiping down surfaces like that you could use a bleach wipe as well. And then, of course, when you’re flying, just make sure that you’ve gotten enough sleep the night before, that you are not up packing at all hours of the night because sleep deprivation does suppress our immune system’s ability to fight off infections. Make sure that you’re not, you know, snacking at the airport on, you know, muffins or chocolate or, you know, candy or a lot of the things that we often… I know your audience doesn’t, but that many parents do “treat” their kids with because they’re being so good on a plane. Staying hydrated, all those good things to really keep our immune system strong. As of now, I’m not necessarily recommending that people don’t travel, but that will likely change in the coming week. So, I think we just have to pay attention to what’s going on and be as safe as possible. My sister was on the fence about flying. She was supposed to fly in two days as we speak and did decide last night not to go not because of her concern with her children getting sick, because, as I mentioned, children are relatively spared, they seem to have mild to no symptoms, but really out of concern for possibly bringing anything to my parents who are elderly and my mom especially who has an increased risk because of her recent chemotherapy and surgery.

Katie: It makes sense. And I love that you are bringing such a calm and level-headed perspective to this and giving people practical tips that they can do to keep their families safe but also to reduce the fear and calm the panic which I think is even potentially more of a pandemic at this time than the actual virus itself. I know you’ve also written some great articles on remedies if you or your child do get sick and just things you can do, again, to support the body through that. And you also have a course. I will make sure that I link to both of those in the show notes at wellnessmama.fm. And of course, they are also on your blog at healthykidshappykids.com. And I also know that you are an active practicing doctor who needs to see patients in eight minutes. I wanna respect your time. But any just parting advice or words of wisdom to parents who are just worried about navigating this with their families?

Dr. Song: Absolutely. Like you said, stress may be more of a pandemic than anything else. And I just want to emphasize that stress, how we’re feeling, our own anxieties, which then can fuel our children’s anxieties, that may actually be one of the most inflammatory things, the most immunosuppressing factors that we are encountering. Now, I want to really help parents to be, you know, what I’ve told my patients, just let’s be rationally prepared, let’s be rationally cautious, but not panicked. We really want to try to focus every day on self-care for ourselves so that we can then be present and calm and help our kids navigate this time. I just yesterday recorded an interview with one of my favorite child psychologists. I would say favorite child psychologist except my sister is one, so I can’t say favorite. But Dawn Huebner, H-U-E-B-N-E-R. She is incredible. She is a child psychologist that teaches kids cognitive-behavioral techniques through her self-help books just for kids or the what to do series, “What To Do When You Worry Too Much,” “What To Do When Your Temper Flares,” “What To Do When Your Brain Gets Stuck.” She’s got a whole series, but her latest book, you know, “Something Bad Happened.” That’s the title of it, “Something Bad Happened.” That came out last fall. And she wasn’t writing it specifically for coronavirus, obviously, because we didn’t know about coronavirus then. But it’s really how to help our kids navigate really bad news, tragic events. And we are already seeing tragic events in the news. I’m hoping that people don’t have their radio on just all the time or the TV on or casually flipping through their news feeds while their children are watching over their shoulders because it’s too much for brains even, you know, middle school and high school brains to really, you know, comprehend fully without our help. So, we recorded an interview on how to talk with kids about coronavirus that I’ll be posting up, you know, very, very soon. And by the time you post the podcast, I will get that link to you because I want parents to know that they do have tools to help themselves keep calm and help their kids keep calm and I think that’s gonna be one of the most powerful ways that we as families and as communities can get through the coronavirus pandemic together.

Katie: I love it. And I will make sure that all of those links are in the show notes. You guys check it out. It will be the podcast at wellnessmama.fm is where you can find it. And I will also, Dr. Song, link to your social media, especially your Instagram, you’ve been posting some resources there and some update so people can follow along with you. And we’ll ride this thing out together like you said and I think parents are the frontline of defense. And I’m so grateful that you are sharing all this practical, common-sense information without the fear and I think that’s gonna really help a lot of families. So, thank you so much.

Dr. Song: Thanks for doing this, Katie. It’s so important to get the word out. And you can do that, you know, so well. And really I appreciate your time today.

So grateful to Dr. Song for sharing all of that information and for very balanced approach on this. I wanted to follow up with a few things into some practical measures that I’m personally taking based on a lot of questions I’ve gotten from you guys. And to start, I also just really want to reiterate what Dr. Song said in the interview, which is that while it makes absolute sense to take a rational preparedness approach to this. We also do need to stay calm and maintain some sort of balance as well.

I know that things like this can seem extremely scary, but especially as parents, we have the ability to help maintain the calm and to pass on a calm attitude to our children and also to take the proper preventative steps without overreacting or being overly afraid. And I’m not at all trying to diminish the potential of what this can be or to minimize the fact that people have died from this and people will continue to die from this. But I just want to reiterate like we talked about with Dr. Song that fear and stress do not help the immune system and nothing is to be gained from that. And so to whatever degree possible, I think, like she said, just once again, to reiterate, we need to be rationally prepared to be ready for what may and looks likely will happen at this point, but at the same time to maintain calm and composure and community and support each other in local areas in whatever ways that we can.

So that’s my first step to this. My own personal approach right now is stay calm, take a deep breath, don’t stress out. That said, to reiterate a lot of the stuff she said, I’m just going through my personal checklist of things that I am implementing in my home with my kids. Extra stuff I’m taking right now just to, as we talked about, boost the immune system, increase the body’s own defenses. Like she reiterated again and again, there is no right now known cure for this, not in conventional medicine, not in alternative medicine, but there are some things that may be helpful in just supporting the body in either hopefully avoiding getting sick or in shortening the duration if we do get sick.

All of the experts agree that hand-washing is extremely important and she talks about…she you talked about this when I spoke with her a few minutes ago and you will see this advice in any official document in CDC papers, everything coming out. Experts agree that hand-washing the right way is one of the best steps that we can take to stop the spread of this or at least to lengthen the curve, which will give our health care system the best shot at handling the potential up flux of people who are going to need to visit the hospital.

So I will put links in the show notes to everything I talk about in this part of the podcast. But I have stocked up on big staples like liquid Castile soap, which I use to make big batches of homemade foaming hand soap and which can also be used on its own as a hand soap. And I’ve been adding in a few drops of different types of antibacterial essential oils and antiviral essential oils into the hand soap. So current for me is germ destroyer or germ fighter from Plant Therapy. I’ll put those links in a discount code in the show notes if they are still even available and not sold out online.

And to echo her advice, this requires proper hand-washing. She quoted the statistics of how big of a difference this can make if we were all washing our hands the right way. But that is important to. It needs to be at least 30 seconds, ideally up to a minute with warm water and soap and that needs to happen, especially anytime we visited public places or touched surfaces where the virus can live. I’m also normally not a huge fan of hand sanitizer, but it’s something I am making and keeping on hand right now. If you have been to any stores, you know that it’s pretty much sold out online and in essentially all stores. So I have been making big batches of my homemade hand sanitizer recipe to use whenever we’re out of the house or if we’ve been in public areas where we can’t wash hands as easily or there’s more potential for the virus to spread.

There’s multiple recipes in that post. So a word of advice. She explained that for, to meet CDC standards, hand sanitizer needs to be at least 60% alcohol. And if you know what percentage your alcohol is, this is a simple math equation. Most rubbing alcohol is 70% or above and some of them are as high as 99%. So you need to make sure whatever alcohol that you use, not just the percentage of that alcohol mixture, but the percentage of actual alcohol is above 60% if you’re trying to meet the CDC standards. And then I dilute that with either aloe vera, which is also largely sold out online or glycerin. And then add essential oils just for an extra layer of defense there and also for scent.

Something else I always do this time of year and I’m just also making sure we do right now is nasal irrigation, especially if we are traveling or have been in public places. This is something, like I said, it’s not specific to coronavirus or Covid-19. This is something that I do during cold and flu season anyway because there are lots of things going around besides just these. But I use several different types. There’s one from Genexa, a Genex saline, both an adult version and then infant and children’s versions as well. And then I also had used other different methods of nasal irrigation at home, similar to a neti pot, but with premixed saline and all of those will be linked in the show as well.

In our home because even though there are viruses going around, my house is still the place where all the neighborhood kids hang out. And I always wanted it to be that. I’m not discouraged that even with all of these things going around, but I am taking a few extra precautionary steps. So I have pretty much been diffusing different essential oils on repeat 24/7. Right now I’m using Germ Destroyer KidSafe Essential Oil and Germ Fighter from Plant Therapy, also Immune Aid and Defender. And I have their oils like respirate and immune boom on hand in case any of us do get sick, but I am just a fusing those pretty much all the time in our home.

I’m also running air filters, which I normally have in the home as well. But I’ve ordered a few more. So I have AirDoctor Air Filters, which you guys might have heard of for me before and also Air Oasis and they have discounts for both of those, which will be in the show notes at wellnessmama.fm. There’s some evidence that certain types of air filters can filter particulate sizes small enough to get viruses in the air. So since there isn’t an airborne nature to this, it’s just a cautionary step that I am.

And then personally and with my kids, there’s a few additional supplements that I’ve added into our routine or increased our dosage on. I just stocked up on Genexa remedies. So again, there’s no treatment or cure for this that we know of, but there are things that might help shorten the duration or at least improved symptoms if anybody does get sick. So you can find links in the show notes to all the Genexa remedies, but they have saline ones that I already mentioned and they also have Cold Crush and Flu Fix, both designed to help with comfort and duration during those types of events.

So those were the show notes as well as Dr. Song mentioned. Two other big ones that seem to come into play with any type of respiratory illness are vitamin D and vitamin C. And I’ve linked to my post on both of these in the show notes. I do think it’s important to test for vitamin D levels, especially this time of year when we aren’t in the sun as much.

And so that’s something I do for our whole family and that we supplement with regularly. We use drops of vitamin D, high dose vitamin D in the mouth, in the doses based on body weight and testing to keep those in range as well. And I’ll put some of my other tips and suggestions in the show notes as well. But I just wanted to give a look at what I’m personally doing and what I’m not doing. We’re not wearing face massk. We’re not a right now quarantining or staying inside. We are limiting any unnecessary travel or big gatherings of a lot of people.

But just to reiterate what she said, I am not afraid at all from an illness perspective for our family because none of us are in high risk populations. But that said, anytime we are dealing with a relatively rapidly spreading now pandemic, I do think it’s important for us all to just be aware and rationally prepared again to use that word so that we aren’t passing this on without even being symptomatic and we aren’t putting people that we love at risk. But that needs to be balanced with keeping calm and not letting the fear and the overwhelm take over. And using this as an opportunity to spend more time together in community and small groups and family and to talk to our kids about important things we would want to teach them anyway. Like what happens in types of events like this, like preventative measures that we can take, like what our immune system is and how it works and how we can support our body and how the body works as an organism, as a whole and not just an individual parts.

And so I think there’s a lot of, many, like very many valuable lessons in this. I have no doubt that communities like this one, the amazing Wellness Mama community will only come together more and strengthen in times like this. And I’m just so grateful to all of you for being the leaders, this in your own families, communities and homes, and for caring, for listening, and for sharing. So thank you again for your time today. I hope that this was helpful to you and your family. I hope that you stay healthy and happy. And I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the ”Wellness Mama” podcast.

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.

Thanks to Our Sponsors

This podcast is brought to you by Radiant Life Catalog. Radiant Life is a woman-owned, family-run online health and wellness company specializing in food-based supplements, nutrient-dense foods, eco-friendly housewares, and water filtration and purification. After spending over 20 years in the health industry, Radiant Life realized that one of the overlooked components of wellbeing is access to clean, healthy and hydrating water. Now, they have a range of filters that fix this for every type of house and budget from countertop to under counter and even whole house like the one we have. Their systems are crafted with a health and wellness focus. They improve the taste and smell of water but, more importantly, they remove a wide range of potentially harmful contaminants. They also have an in-house water expert available all the time to guide you through the system selection process and answer all of your questions via phone or email. Their systems are also designed and built in the USA and really high quality. Go to radiantlife.com/wellnessmama and get $200 off a Whole House or 14-Stage Water System with the code WMPODCAST.

This podcast is brought to you by Wellnesse, a new company I co-founded to tackle the toughest personal care products and create natural and safe products that work as well as conventional alternatives. I realized that even the most natural of my friends still used conventional toothpaste and shampoo because they weren’t willing to sacrifice quality. There are natural options and ones that work, but find products that do both was almost impossible. We tackled the toughest first, creating the first and only natural toothpaste that is fluoride and glycerin free, and that has calcium and hydroxyapatite to uniquely support the mineral balance in the mouth. It also contains neem oil and green tea to support a healthy bacterial balance in the mouth and fight bad breath. Be the first to try it and our innovative natural hair care at wellnesse.com

]]>
clean no 01:04:22 Katie Wells
321: Detoxification, Mitochondrial Health, Biophysics, and Figuring Out Your Optimal With Caleb Jenningshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/caleb-jennings/ Thu, 12 Mar 2020 11:00:15 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=424055

Caleb Jennings is a former extreme sports athlete with an incredible background. After sustaining an injury that ended his career, he set out on the path of holistic biohacking, trying anything and everything to get better.

Today, he’s a world-renowned health coach and expert in health at the micro-cellular level. There’s so much we could talk about, but today Caleb and I are starting with topics like detoxification, hormone balance, mitochondrial function, and how the body needs the right light diet to be healthy.

Episode Highlights With Caleb Jennings

  • Caleb’s history as an extreme sports athlete
  • The harrowing injury that changed his life forever
  • Why he declined surgery and fought to get his life back another way
  • How to learn your body with biohacking experiments
  • Why natural health wasn’t always his favorite thing
  • Easy and safe ways to detoxify the body
  • The best way to test hormones (and know what the results mean)
  • Why your health rests on your level of mitochondrial function
  • Ins and outs of the Carnivore Diet
  • And more!

Resources We Mention

More From Wellness Mama

Did you enjoy this episode? Please drop a comment below or leave a review on iTunes to let us know. We value knowing what you think and this helps other moms find the podcast as well.

Read Transcript

Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.

This podcast is brought to you by Gaia herbs and their black elderberry syrup! I’ve been a big fan of Elderberry syrup for years and theirs is the best pre-made one I’ve found. You can experience for yourself why it is America’s Favorite Organic Black Elderberry Syrup! It is the #1 best-selling organic Black Elderberry syrup in the U.S. This time of year, it is a medicine cabinet staple and immune season essential. Elderberry will help your family stay feeling well with the delicious immune elixir loved by adults and children alike. It is Certified organic – this powerful syrup concentrates the juice from 14.5 grams of elderberries in a single teaspoon, so it’s highly potent. It is made with just four clean whole-food ingredients and is vegan, dairy-free, gluten-free and soy-free, making it safe for most people. Black Elderberry Syrup is safe for the whole family and is formulated for adults and children age 1 and older. You can save big on Gaia Herbs by going to gaiaherbs.com/wellnessmama and use code WELLNESSMAMA at checkout for 20% off your first purchase.

This episode is sponsored by Wellnesse, a new company I co-founded to create safe, natural and obsessively tested products for families. You’ve heard that much of what you put on your body gets absorbed and goes into your body. We turned this idea on its head, creating products that aren’t just safe to put on your hair, skin and in your mouth, but that are beneficial. We started with the toughest first, creating the first of its kind natural toothpaste that is free of fluoride and glycerin and that contains ingredients like green tea, neem and hydroxyapatite to support the mouth. Our haircare is free of harmful ingredients and contains ingredients like lavender and nettle to support healthy hair! Be the first to try it at wellnesse.com

Katie: Hello, and welcome to the Wellness Mama Podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and this bio-hacking episode is filled with practical tips that you can use to improve your mitochondrial health to slow aging and so much more. I’m here with Caleb Jennings who is considered a professional holistic bio-hacker, and he actually coaches people on a lot of the things we’re going to talk about today. He’s a former pro-athlete with over 10 years of training. He goes into his pretty elaborate and incredible story of recovery from an injury he sustained while being an athlete. And he now has all this training in nutrition, peak performance, evolutionary systems of biology, and he helps train athletes, CEOs, and entrepreneurs to reach their health and fitness goals. And he shares a lot about the ways he does that today. So using a combination of ancient practices and futuristic technology he guides people along this. And we go deep on a lot of things, including one of my favorite pet topics, which is mitochondrial health, because basically if your mitochondria are healthy, so much more in your body is healthy and happy as well. So stick with us, it gets pretty science-y but very, very fascinating. And let’s join Caleb.

Caleb, welcome. Thanks for being here.

Caleb: Hello Katie. Thank you so much for having me.

Katie: I am so excited to chat with you today, and there’s so much that I can’t wait to cover with you. But, knowing a little bit I do about your background and what my husband has told me about you, I think the best place to start is with your story, which is pretty incredible from the little bit I know of it. So let’s start off with how did you get into this world?

Caleb: Oh yeah. It was, you know, synchronicity and just beautiful timing I call that. I essentially got a 2 by 4 in the sky. It was a life-changing event, background in professional snowboarding, acrobatics, gymnastics, a lot of very high adrenaline, high intensity, also flow-based sports, very active in that sense athletically. So I didn’t pay attention to diet and health as much because my body was just knowing what to do. But that divine 2 by 4 knocked me out of the sky, drop me about five stories onto my neck, my back, straight onto ice basically. So I over-rotated a couple of times, you know, trying one flip to a few rotations turned into a few flips, and dropped me right on my neck and my back.

So I’ve broken various different aspects of my neck and cervical spine there towards the top and mid. And then actually broke many different bones from, you know, collarbone to ribs to collapsing both my lungs. It was a really intense life-transforming event for me at that time. It completely changed my life in a sense that it…you know, to me from a 180 of looking for the fame and the fortune and all the wonderful things, the MTV “Cribs” lifestyle back then of the snowboarding world essentially. And it really got me into healing modality of just recovery in that sense because I’m in a full-body cast and a neck brace, the whole nine yards, and I was on numerous pain killers and muscle relaxers. So my mind was in a very weird, fuzzy space, but also very open.

And my mom is so incredibly supportive that, you know, she helped support me in the sense of she would love to read, and she you would set stacks of books on my bed. And long story short, through that, I just got into some the gateway gurus, you know, Deepak Chopra and so many other wonderful people that just help me realize that it wasn’t all about me, it wasn’t all about just my experience in this life, that there’s other people out there. And it seems fairly obvious, but sometimes we lose sight of that, and that really turned me around. I realized there’s so much suffering in the world that is unnecessary to a degree. There are ways that we can help each other and help ourselves, and help our loved ones to achieve optimal health, to have the most joy in blissful experience as we possibly can.

And so at that moment in time in my healing journey, I completely shifted my entire experience to focus on service to others. At the time, I didn’t know how that was gonna be, but through that healing journey, realizing how intelligent the body is naturally, I chose not to go with the intense surgery that the doctors, you know, essentially scared me into and attempting just to see, okay you can’t run anymore, you can’t jump anymore, you’re not gonna snowboard anymore, basically your life is over. And you’re gonna have two years of rehabilitation and rods and pins in your back. I just at the deep core gut level, I knew it was wrong and I knew that my body had more intelligence in that sense.

And my mom was very supportive of that. She’s like, “You could do the surgery or you can heal naturally.” And I chose to go the natural route. I’m so glad I did because I came back stronger than ever from that in all forms, from the sports I played it, but also with this new profound fascination and obsession with optimal human health and how nature so intelligently designs from evolutionary process, how we keep iterating generation and generation, and we support that in the various different ways we have access to so much in this world from natural supplements to medical biotechnology and beyond, you know, the entire spectrum. Yeah, just led me down this path of diving in deep into cellular metabolism, mitochondrial function, biophysics, biophotonics, how light affects biology, DNA epigenetics, on and on. There’s just so much to it.

And so it led me to the creation of holistic biohacking, which is a framework that just brought all of these different world experiences and brilliant masters and scientists, and practitioners, and spiritual leaders just kind of bring it all together in a way that we can essentially upgrade and optimize our lives. No matter where we are at in time, no matter what kind of lifestyle we lead, where throughout the world, there’s always something we can do to improve and better ourselves whether it’s psychologically, emotionally, spiritually, or physically in the biological sense through health specifically.

And that journey has just been an incredible one to work with so many people over the years, learned so much in these spaces, and really start piecing things together. It’s a never-ending journey, but I’ve been able to help incredibly so many people through the entire process. It’s so fulfilling to see the results on the other end whether it’s a program that I produce or, you know, private coaching I do with high-level clients and working with Olympians, CEOs, celebrities, athletes, whoever it is, it doesn’t matter. It’s that they realize they can live life at entirely new levels they weren’t able to even imagine before that, and just to see that transformation, and also, you know, see the results from laboratory testing and diagnostics. I’m a data geek for those things too to drive performance. And so it’s just been such a wonderful adventure to help, and teach, and coach, and essentially just help people live their best lives they possibly can, no matter where they’re at in their lives or in the world, there’s always a way.

Katie: Wow. That is a really incredible story. And I’m guessing, you said, you didn’t even really have a background in the nutrition and health side as much, you are just much more of the athletic side. So I’m curious what that looked like when you started really delving into it, and how you were able to determine which things were having an effect and which weren’t. Because my own journey over the last couple of years, I’ve realized more and more just how individualized and personalized so many aspects of health are, and I think we’re each responsible for figuring out those things that work for all of us. And I think there are universal things that are beneficial in some way, but how did you start evaluating that and how did you know when something was having the desired effect?

Caleb: That was really, you know, I had the background with my mom being a crazy health nut, little more from the woo-woo world and very metaphysical spiritual in that sense. So I grew up in sweat lodges and with, you know, different ceremonies and, you know, Indian tribal leaders and incredible experiences all around. And my mom taking so many pills, she would take so many supplements, sometimes a couple hundred pills a day. She just had every supplement under the sun. And I just thought to myself, I was like, “You know, Mom, I love you so much and you load me up with zinc lozenges and echinacea and goldenseal anytime I have a sniff or potential cough and got, you know, honey and ginger tea for gargling and salt wash for, you know, neti pot. So she really brought me up in that natural health dynamic, which I absolutely love and appreciate. But that combination of so many things at once, I wasn’t too into.

And so moving away from that as I grew older and got into the studies deeper, I realized there’s more of a synergy that we can get into with understanding how these different bioactive molecules work. Whether it’s in the food we eat or even the cleanliness of the water that we drink, detoxification is a huge aspect of that. So figuring that out intuitively was the first step. And then I got deeper into the data side, and that’s where my brain really lit up, you know, studying neuroscience and human behavior and seeing the data points from laboratory tests whether it’s, you know, hormone testing, or blood level testing, or micronutrient testing.

And one of my favorites is we can see what we have too much of and not enough of, but we really noticed how we feel and also how we look. So this common sense of, you know, from the invisible you and the visible you, and then invisible you inside, you know, there’s all these inner workings of how the body connects and operates at such an intelligent level that we don’t think about. But then we do think about how we look and we also think about how we feel. And so if we’re tired and we’re groggy in the morning, and we don’t have enough energy to get through the day or, you know, if you’re a mom with kids and you have this busy lifestyle, and you’re making food and making smoothies and doing all these different things, getting them to school, you’re not seeing enough time for yourself in that.

But if you can tap into your own intuition of feeling, how each little change does make a difference for you, whether it’s your energy, whether it’s your sleep, whether it’s, you know, if you’re running or working out in the gym, CrossFit, wherever it might be, there’s always a way that you can tell for that. And some people have a deep intuitive sense of that naturally, and others have to be trained and conditioned for that in a sense, which everyone has a capacity for. And so my initial, you know, I just looked at it internally of, you know, if I had acne and hormonal issues, and I was tired, and I wasn’t sleeping well, had insomnia, and I had a lot of digestive upset issues as well. I was gaining some weight when I moved away from the sports world into more, you know, business world of sorts of sitting down behind a computer and doing technical things. I wasn’t as active and so that caught up with me really quickly.

And I realized that, you know, the issues I was having when I would eat certain foods, I would stop eating those foods for a couple of weeks, I realized I felt better and I would have less mucus or I wouldn’t be sneezing or my digestion was more calm, or I wouldn’t have as much gas or bloating, and all those are indications. So the body is always speaking to us constantly, every single day, every single moment. And if you learn to listen to the signs, listen to understanding what your body’s trying to tell you, you can reverse engineer and kind of track back a little bit further, okay, maybe I had something on Monday that is not making me feel good on Tuesday and Wednesday.

And if you can see what those things are, you can play around with it. You know, maybe dairy, you’re a little sensitive to dairy, you can’t process that. Then you want to try to take that out a little bit and see how that makes you feel. And so I got into crazy guinea pig-like experiments all the way from, you know, super raw vegan for years as an experiment, all the way to nose-to-tail now farm-to-table carnivore style as well and everything in between. Ketosis being one of the most incredible ones that I noticed overall that I’ve actually done a lot of different courses and trainings on, you know, a biohacked ketosis training for understanding how these things all connect, and also how you can feel and sense it yourself.

And if you pair that with, for example, laboratory diagnostic testing, which isn’t as available to everyone as I’d like it to be, I really am hoping for incredible technologies to allow us to have those answers right in the palm of our hand, right in the phone. You know, we have this incredibly intelligent technology that can read our saliva or urine or whatever might be eventually to blood droplets. And in that sense, you can know if your vitamin D levels are low. And you know that’s connected to so many different aspects of health. Your magnesium is low, that’s a huge one we are chronically deficient in, and working towards getting more sufficient and overall. Those micronutrients are key to that.

So if you notice, okay, I’m low in vitamin D, maybe I can go outside and get some sunlight on my eyes, on my skin, get my feet, you know, clear, grounded to the earth, get that rejuvenated recharging connection that helps your body stimulate the rejuvenating stem cell type elements to rejuvenate the cells at a deeper level to help cleanse and detox these elements out of you, you can see that in the mirror. You can see your eyes brighter, you can see your face slimmer. You can see a little bit more radiant glow, you literally put off more photons of light, you are radiant in that sense. And you’ll hear that feedback from others, you know, around your loved ones, your community. They’ll say, “Wow, look, you know, Katie, you’re glowing today, what have you done, you know?” And you could say, “Oh, I just did this, this, and that, and it actually helped really, really well. I’m sleeping better, and I have more energy as a result.” And then when you have the data back into that too, we do before and after type testing in terms of client work, we see you’re very deficient in these elements and we can supplement those in various ways.

But there’s other aspects you can touch on that will help your body naturally regulate those functions because, again, our DNA is the greatest data storage device in the known universe, so far as we’ve discovered. And it has all of the answers and information from all previous generations, all the way back, spanning all the way through time, that know what will help us survive and reproduce in that sense from an evolutionary perspective. As everybody knows us, we have resistance to various different challenges from bacterial to viral or otherwise. But when you could tie that together with your internal intuitive feeling of “I’ve changed X in my life and I’m getting Y result”, that’s a very good experimental framework for you to start thinking and feeling and operating within because that will lead you to clear answers, each new thing you try and each new experiment you run, and it shifts it to be more fun perspective.

So instead of thinking, “Oh, no, I have to do this diet, and it’s not gonna be that fun and not that tasty,” you can really have fun with, “Wow, that really transformed my energy. I really liked that I’m gonna stick with that.” Or, “You know, that actually didn’t help me. Maybe it helped my friend, but it’s not for me, so I’m just going to, you know, retire that aspect and move on to something new,” because there’s always something more. When you pair that data-backing element to it if you can to laboratory testing with the practitioner you’re working with, you can see the changes in your hormones, your blood levels, your micronutrients, and even your mitochondrial function.

And understanding that at a core level helps you understand that you literally have the answers within you, and now it’s just up to us to work within this modern society to detoxify and get nutrient efficiency levels in there to a degree that you see those performance changes. And you’ll see it in the mirror, you’ll see it in reflecting from others around you and you’ll feel it internally. And you can also have the data to back it.

Katie: I love it. I am a big data nerd as well, and I run labs often and track them in spreadsheets just to see trends over time. So I’m curious, what are some of the labs that you personally like to track and what do you look for?

Caleb: So detoxification is the number one place I start with everyone that I work with across the board. You know, we live in a very toxic modern society where, you know, you have rubber burning off from tires, and exhaust fumes from cars, and dense urban environments. So there’s heavy metals like lead and cadmium and mercury. You have mold toxicity, which is just one of the biggest challenges so many people face, especially in Pacific Northwest and other areas. You don’t even know you have water damage sometimes that mold can stick around and really harm you in those ways. There’s VOCs and different, you know, fluorocarbons. There’s different things floating in the air that you can’t see with the naked eye, but you’re breathing in or they’re getting on your skin, or the cleaning supplies you might use to clean your kitchen. That’s why, you know, green eco-friendly cleaning supplies are fantastic. To the bedding that you’re sleeping on, you know, the type of materials that could off-gas.

So there’s all these different elements that are sort of attacking us almost every day. And our bodies have internal detoxification systems naturally, but we need more support than ever in that sense. And so going through there, I usually start with mold lab panels, I start with hormone panels. I go through, depending on people have heavy metal toxicity. Oftentimes, an inverse relationship between heavy metal and mold toxicity, so if you have one, and you see a test result showing that you most likely often have the other. And it’s good if you can test everything, but if you just get a few key ones, figuring out the toxins that are getting your body’s way of naturally knowing what to do, and your DNA is really trying to work every single moment to optimize your health on a constant basis. And these toxins just get in the way.

You know, they just do so many terrible things within ourselves that we don’t really know what’s going on until it almost gets too late until you start really feeling bad. And we just want to feel better in that sense. So if we get that stuff out of the way, we detoxify, you know, whether it’s infrared sauna, you know, the niacin sauna protocols when I highly recommend to do, you know, ideally with a practitioner, understand the protocol very specifically.

But if you see that before and after of you have high mercury, high lead, high cadmium, any of those, and you do that before test, you go through, let’s say a gentle, you know, heavy metal chelation process, you know, recommend you, for example, Dr. Chris Shade in Quicksilver Scientific, they’re phenomenal on that front with both Lyme mold detox, people with Lyme tend to get more mold and heavy metal susceptibility. And so all of those things connected together when you start removing those from the system, safely, naturally, gently you go through that process, you’ll notice so many other aspects of your health, your energy, your sleep improve across the board.

And mitochondria are the key to that. We really need to help fuel the mitochondria and help them repair and rejuvenate in the best way we possibly can. And there’s very simple ways you can do that, but having these tests and understanding where your hormones are at. You know, for example, as women, you go through this beautiful hormonal cycle is fluctuation throughout each moon cycle in that sense, each menstrual cycle, and it’s so beautiful. And us men, we tend to be…we have our fluctuations, but we tend to just, you know, kind of go along at our own pace, and we might have peaks and drops at various stages or ages.

But with a beautiful feminine cycle, you have to really look at, for example, there’s one called diagnostics panel. And now it actually tracks salivary hormone analysis from all the way through your entire period, not just a snapshot. That’s one thing I see a lot of clients gonna be like, “Oh, my estrogen is fine, my testosterone is fine, estradiol is fine, it all looks good,” and yet they’re experiencing all these hormonal disruptive changes. So I usually have them go through and do this test. And they see the fluctuation throughout the entire moon cycle, and they understand, oh, so it looks fine at the snapshot, but a couple of weeks later, a different part of the cycle, it’s different, and there’s a kink in the hose of the hormone channels.

And if you’re not producing hormones properly, you’re not utilizing them properly, you’re also not metabolizing or excreting them properly, those are three different key areas to look for those kinks in the hose and unravel that. So everything flows very beautifully to give it the fuel to produce the hormones, to have the ability to utilize that in proper ways, and have the ability to excrete it properly in that sense. And, you know, my wife is a fascinating example, both in the hormones and also heavy metal toxicity. You know, she’d actually gone blind for a couple of years from deep mercury and lead toxicity. And she healed herself naturally through that entire process with an array of wonderful things from colonics to coffee enemas to glutathione and beyond. It really transformed her entire life and regained her sight, and regained her health in that sense. And the hormonal connection was a key to that.

And she didn’t know about this test before we had met so I’d had her run that test, and we helped her with that. And we checked out mold and we checked out heavy metal panels. We’ve been monitoring that ever since. And also the base nutrients, you know, the micronutrient sufficiency panel is one of my absolute favorites, I recommend SpectraCell as a lab from that. And they go through and they look at so many different elements, vitamins, minerals, and nutrients to omega fatty acids. You can really see what you have too much of, what you don’t have enough of, and what you’re just right in. And that’s really the spectrum you want to look at.

And then support through the most natural ways possible, through diet, through lifestyle, exercise, supplementation if it makes sense for you, and it will help support that aspect and, you know, deeply, deeply healing on the mitochondrial level. Because the mitochondrial level really spirals all the way back up through every emerging system of organ health in the body as a collective unit, that integrated holistic approach. So detox panels, hormone panels, micronutrient sufficiency panels are some of my absolute favorites. And there’s some like the organic acids test, for example, or the DUTCH test, those give you really incredible aspects of details for adrenal fatigue to, you know, different aspects of hormonal burnout.

And when you start just tweaking those things just a little bit, even just, you know, one or two tests will give you a really good insight into how you can start optimizing your health naturally in this fashion. And you can do another test, you know, whether it’s two or three months later and compare and, you know, are you doing better, are you not? Have you stepped forward with growth or is your body stepping back into safety? And really understanding how you can get out of that fight-or-flight response in the nervous system and calming the brain in that sense.

You get those adrenals recharged and rejuvenated, you get that jing flowing, you know, from traditional Chinese medicine, you know, philosophy. You see that across the board, and you’ll really notice that the smallest adjustments to your diet and lifestyle and your environment will totally transform your health in that sense because the environment shapes us. If the environment’s toxic, we need to support and bolster ourselves in that and help support our body’s natural detoxification systems. And that’ll help all the way up the spiral of every emerging system and your mitochondria are gonna be very happy and your body overall is gonna be stellarly fantastic and loving life to the fullest.

Katie: I love that. And I know my audience is typically much more educated than average, and they probably understand these concepts already. But for anyone who it’s a new concept to, I wanna just go a little bit deeper on the idea of mitochondrial health. So can you explain at a broad level for anyone who’s not quite familiar like what the mitochondria do, what they are, what they do, and then any other ways that we might be able to support them? And, especially, I’m thinking for the parents listening for our kids who are typically hopefully not recovering from a health crisis, but how can we support their mitochondria from an early age?

Caleb: Oh, it’s a beautiful question, Katie. And it’s, you know, so fascinating. You know, it’s a fun thing, I call it mother is mitochondria and the liquids of life. It really ties into this connected chain of mitochondrial function. And so I’ll get a little bit more geeky complex aspects of mitochondria, but first and foremost, we inherit our mitochondrial DNA from our mothers. So if you’re a mother listening, you have your mitochondrial DNA you inherited from your mother and so on so forth, but you also pass that along to your children.

And it’s very fascinating how evolution chose like, you know, let’s stick with mom, let’s pass that down through there, and dad contributes great, you know, genetic material. And it takes two to tango in that sense to produce this magic of life that we have as human beings on this planet. And it’s so incredible to see that following through the chain all the way back to the beginning of time. Again, that information, those answers are there. And that is really training and programming the next generation for having more resilience and more success in reproduction and survival. In that sense, you can live life to the fullest, and go on and continue that cycle. It’s just a never ending hero’s journey cycle of humanity and all of biological life really.

Then mitochondrial cells at the core, they are, you might remember is the powerhouse of the cell. You know, they produce ATP, adenosine triphosphate, which is, you know, essentially the natural cellular energy of our bodies of our biology. It’s not like caffeine or coffee where you get that central nervous system stimulation, which you get a bit of a peak and you get that buzz and it’s great and fantastic, tastes wonderful. But you might, over time, experience adrenal fatigue or you might experience sleep disruptions because overstimulating the central nervous system really can just confer some challenging issues in that sense.

So if we can go through and focus on the core cellular energy of the body, which is what the mitochondria produce, you know, they’re shuttlers of electrons, right? Everything we eat, we take in, enzymes break it down, there all these beautiful complex processes. But the goal of it, really the end takeaway for understanding how mitochondria work is that all these little pieces break down into little energy units of electrons. And these electrons are passed through a few different phases in, you know, the mitochondrial complex. And there’s, you know, one through four, one through five, depending which research you look at, but at the end of that whole process, you’ve taken the electrons you extract from food and then you process it through, which then produces, you know, easy water, what’s called exclusion zone water. You know, Dr. Gerald Pollack’s research in “Fourth Phase Water,” and it’s different than the water we drink, which I can touch on a bit too.

But then you spit out ATP, the adenosine triphosphate, which is that energy that fuels every other aspect of our being and really animates us to be alive in that sense. And it also spins off oxidative elements too that can be damaging, you know, it’s kinda like a car burning gas, you know, there is exhaust that comes out of that. Mitochondrial functions in the same way. And when you have really awesome mitochondrial function going on, that is literally giving energy to every different cell and every different part of our bodies. And when you optimize mitochondrial function because we discovered…you know, Dr. Douglas Wallace, for example, has incredible research on this and he’s really tied together just about every known chronic disease disorder or challenge that we humans face in health and life and he’s really tied it back to the foundation of mitochondrial function, there always a connection of the mitochondrial function level in there.

So when you focus on that, it’s what I call like a high-leverage strategy because you’ve been focused on supporting your mitochondrial function, and that shuttles electrons more efficiently, which means, also too, when you’re processing electrons through mitochondrial function more efficiently, you’re not storing that excess energy in the form of, guess what, fat. And if you’re having excess weight challenges, there’s water weight and there’s fat weight, but that is all backed-up stored energy is a survival mechanism.

And if your body is in a stress state, your mitochondria are just, you know, dysregulated, not too happy, and they’ve been bombarded by toxins and a lot of different aspects that will break them down, that means you’re producing less energy in the form of ATP, you’re storing more of that energy in fat cells and, you know, all around your body, and you’re also producing more oxidants in that sense, we know about antioxidants, how awesome they are for health in various ways. But if you’re producing more oxidants and less energy, that’s not really a good combo, you know, that’s a car that’s having trouble. You need to take it in and get it checked and tuned up and see what’s going on.

And when you optimize the mitochondrial efficiency, you can get much, much more energy out of much less input. So you might actually eat less food and feel more satiated and you’ll be losing weight and burning fat as fuel for your brain and the rest of your organs in that sense. And that’s where, you know, ketosis can come into play as well if you practice that. But overall, regardless of how you eat or how you live, mitochondria are at the core of what is driving every aspect of a biological function from an energetic perspective, like a physical biophysics energetic perspective. And the cool thing behind that as well is that light, light itself is actually what makes all the switches flip on or off from a genetic level, from an epigenetic level, and for the genome of mitochondria as well.

And so we get proper light that is supporting all the way through. So it’s driven by light, mitochondrial optimization will produce more energy from less input. So you can basically have a way better return on your investment from a biological perspective. And then every other cell can get what it needs. And that cellular hydration, cellular water, we call it exclusion zone water, which very simply means that it keeps the bad stuff out and lets the good stuff in. And when that is really optimal, then you are truly hydrated on the inside of your body, every cell. And metabolic processes can continue and hormones can be produced and utilized, which are all powering your experience.

You know, we are chemists, we have a pharmacy in our brain and in our body and we produce neurochemistry that makes us happy or sad. And different experiences on the spectrum of life, they’re all, you know, adjusted here and there by different aspects. And so the more energy you have, the more repair your body can do, and the more repair your body can do, the more it can upgrade and optimize, and you can build strength, and you can build optimal health in various ways based on your desired outcomes and your goals. And mitochondria are the key to that.

Katie: I love it. So I’m curious with all of your experimentation and research in this area, what diet you’ve personally settled on at this point and what you follow, or maybe it varies, but what do you typically do?

Caleb: So that’s fine, you know, I’ve been through again that the spectrum from super hardcore raw vegan with all the superfoods under the sun and giant Vitamix blender-fulls of, you know, kale, green smoothies, and everything else. And all the way to, you know, the carnivore nose-to-tail type approach. And it’s very fascinating, you know, the original raw approach for me was really fantastic the first year-and-a-half I was doing it, and I lost over 60 pounds, and I just cleared up brain fog, and my skin cleared up. I had great energy, it was fantastic. You know, isn’t sort of the heyday of when raw was starting to take off.

I felt amazing with that, but over time, like the last year-and-a-half of that experiment, I ran for about three years, you know, I actually had quite the crash in health. And I, you know, kinda noticed it when I was in the parking lot of a grocery store in California, and I was munching on some cactus jerky. And one of my back molars just cracked and crumbled in my mouth. And I’m in the backseat of the car, and my friends driving, all of a sudden, my blood’s just pouring out of my mouth, like what just happened here? So I raced to, you know, get to an emergency surgery to take care of that. And that really was an indication that this diet was no longer serving me.

And long story short, I did a lot of research figured it out, and realized that, you know, the high oxalic content of the greens I was having and the lectins and different anti-nutrients to a degree that disrupt some processes within health from a dietary perspective. You know, my methylation pathways, my genetics, they just were not suited to that. And so I had a decrease in bone density, and my testosterone plummeted, you know, I did not feel like a man at all at that time. It was a challenge. I was very happy and very spiritual in that sense, but my body was not happy because it wasn’t able to get the nutrition from what I thought were the most nutrient-dense foods possible into my system, into my cells, and to support my mitochondrial function as best as it could.

And so that led me to diving into biophysics much, much deeper and realizing that the micronutrient sufficiency aspect is a real critical key. And there’s also biological competition, you know, vitamins and minerals sometimes compete within the body. And iron is a good example of that. So if you’re having iron in a multivitamin, it doesn’t really make the most sense, because it actually can compete with at least 18 other vitamins and minerals and nutrients. And that happening in the body is not so fun, you’re essentially, you know, just not utilizing what you think you’re putting in to help in your health in that sense.

And so from there, I switched gears. You know, I’ve had a lot of head injuries over the years, I’ve had over 28 concussions ranging from mild to severe, and done a lot of work on my brain in various ways, brain scanning and all these other really cool aspects to see what’s going on and how I can optimize that function. And I realized that the ketogenic aspect of dietary lifestyle was really powerful in a number of ways. And so I dove into, you know, from the raw days, I jumped into ketosis, and I got into fasting, intermittent fasting. And I started realizing that it was actually quite simple to shift a few things. You know, if I stopped eating food a few hours before I went to bed that my energy levels were much better and my digestive function was much more enjoyable. I didn’t have gas, I didn’t have bloating, I didn’t have these issues.

My brain was much clearer and my sleep quality was just off the charts, and something I tracked on a daily basis and have for many years, I could see that that translation there. And my brain was just on fire in the best of ways. It was clear, it’s focused, you know, struggled with ADD most of my life, but thankfully don’t need medications for it because I’m utilizing dietary aspects and supplements accordingly from nootropics and beyond to essentially optimize each different aspect of that in my brain function. And so from the ketogenic lifestyle, you know, that really turned things around for me and getting into fat as fuel, and just really understanding how the body can utilize these different nutrient elements, and put them to work in the cells and keep the mitochondria happy.

And I went through and after I did that for some years and I put together a large course on that topic, helped a lot of people in that sense of, you know, doing ketosis properly, there’s sort of a good way to do it and there’s some ways that are less than optimal that you’ll see differences in over time and you’ll know how you feel because you might feel great in the beginning but make sure that that’s sustainable for you.

And then I shifted into seasonal cycling of foods. And the concept of it was a really great book, I believe it’s called “The Jungle Diet.” And basically a very simple concept, the author was a genius scientist where she basically just took people she was working with and ran their genetics and found out where they were from, and just switched them to a natural diet that matched where their DNA had the most time spent. You know, if you were from Spanish countries, it would be more to that degree. If you’re Mediterranean, it would be more Mediterranean style. And there’s nothing really fancy about this. It was really just getting on the original foods that the DNA had the most experience with over time, encoding that knowledge of how to use those nutrients in those foods for health. And that radically transformed people’s health across the board.

And so when I looked at where I lived and, you know, the type of light I received, and the type of seasonal cycles, I would switch my food to keep with the seasons. I go to the farmers’ market and get everything fresh and put it together. I love to cook, I’m a crazy foodie geek chef, so I love cooking with new fresh ingredients all the time. And I realized the more in tune with nature I got, the more energy I was able to produce, and the better I was able to sleep, and the more focus that I had.

And from there, I switched over to doing another experiment in the carnivore space. And the carnivore diets are really fascinating when you do it very, very particularly and ideally, a nutrient-dense carnivore aspect. You know, Dr. Paul Saladino is a great speaker on this topic. And I believe he has a book coming out very soon if it’s not out already that’s all about this and the various ways to do it. And the nose-to-tail approach of having the bone marrow and the bone broth and the collagen, and having the organ meats and, you know, heart, kidney, liver, spleen, thyroid, and you can get so many different ones that are from grass-fed animals that are very sustainably produced that are very clean and don’t have any other contaminants in them.

And you mix that in with a carnivore diet, it was really fascinating because I was teaching people ketosis all these years, and some did incredibly well and some had challenges. And after my experiment, you know, it just transformed my health, I got lean and ripped and shredded and it was fantastic, energy was off the charts. I just felt incredible from that. And my lab testing that I do on a regular basis was showing that, you know, lower CRP, lower inflammation markers, higher energy, more nutrient density, you know, a more even harmony across the board of ratios of fatty acids, for example, like omega 3, 6, and 9.

And all these other aspects of, “Okay, there’s something to this here,” and getting to the aspect of biophysics, not to get too deep and geeky with this, but there’s deuterium and deuterium is heavy hydrogen and tying back to mitochondria. When you have, you know, something that’s twice as big and twice as heavy and you try to fit it through one hole that’s not that big and need something of different weight, then it breaks things. And it breaks the nanomotors in mitochondrial function, at the end, it spits out, like, we talked about that ATP and that cellular water and the oxidants that come out as an exhaust aspect of that.

So you’re literally breaking these nanomotors and the mitochondria cells are dying. And deuterium concentrates highly in plant foods and in carbohydrates, for example. And that was what I found fascinating of switching it up a little bit with clients I was working with and training. I was like, “Hey, you know, let’s go and do a carnivore type approach for a short duration of time, sort of like as a prep,” and it was fascinating because carnivore and ketosis are very similar in various ways, but the key to them is that they actually help you deplete the deuterium in your tissues. You need a little deuterium, it’s not the most bad stuff ever. You need it to drive growth in a lot of different ways to maintain health, but we have way too much of it these days.

And when you deplete that out naturally, that’s actually the fundamental underpinning of the biophysics of why and how ketosis works and carnivore as well. So when you get these rich, nutrient dense, you know, high-fat, great quality grass-fed meats across the board and nutrient-dense organ meats, your body really knows what to do with those because that’s what we have always historically, you know, for the most part and anthropology noted that we’ve eaten, and helped us form the brains we have, and the bodies we have. When you give your body those nutrients, they’re the more bioavailable and more bioidentical. And since your body knows what to do with them, your DNA is a code, a program that says, “I see the nutrients in liver and I can use those nutrients for what I need to do and build inside of biology.”

And that was really fascinating because there’s a much easier approach to help people get into a ketogenic lifestyle, and then more of a cyclical fashion, you know, especially women, you need to cycle things more. Men can get away with just being kind of hardcore carnivore and hardcore keto for a while, but women have, again, that beautiful hormonal cycle you must support. And carbs are necessary for some people in various forms, especially if you’re an athlete in training, you do need to cycle those out too. And so that carnivore connection there was really fascinating and very counterintuitive, you know, coming from this extreme raw vegan type approaches and experiment all the way to, you know, the most opposite you could possibly get of the carnivore approach. But the results were fantastically clear across the board from laboratory testing from how I felt.

And also everyone I worked with, I was just seeing them transform in ways that I didn’t even know we could achieve in that period of time. And it’s just a consistency through and through that the body again knows what to do. And when we get those nutrients in, it connect those up, it’s really fascinating what can happen. And so now, I really cycle these things out. So I’m primarily ketogenic, I do a lot of carnivore, and I still occasionally love to have my cake and eat it too. You know, I’m gluten-sensitive, dairy-sensitive in various ways, but I’ve optimized my digestion to a degree that I can enjoy certain things.

You know, fun little treat, for example, I love Mexican food and tacos, and they have these churros, which are sort of a deep-fried, glutinous, sugar-covered thing with a dulce de leche caramel sauce, and they’re fantastically delicious. I’m not able to have them all the time because they would kind of KO me for a few days, very sensitive to those things. But really, again, just how we go back to realizing what’s working, what’s not in anything we do, and anything we change in our lifestyle and health, we realized that, “Okay, if we improve digestion, we can actually handle a little bit more of the things that we may be sensitive to outside of that.” And so that was kind of a test for me after the carnivore experiment was how good is my gut health, you know, strength and resilience in my gut, how’s that doing and how am I digesting things?

And so I had those churros at the taco place, and it was so delicious. It was wonderful. But the craziest thing it is that it did not affect me negatively at all. You know, the first time, I was like, “Wow, actually, I can have this and enjoy it every now and then,” but it’s not a consistent thing. And so when I stick to the real foods and certain ones cooked, certain ones not cooked, you want to have a mix of those things. The enzymes are a really critical, important part of that too. But again, that nutrient density giving the body the healthy fats to burn as fuel, that upregulates mitochondrial function. You have more energy, you have better digestion, you can absorb more nutrients in the gut and beyond. You can produce all those chemicals that all lead to joy and bliss in daily life.

Katie: I love that. And a couple of key takeaways that really resonated with me is, like, you’re explaining this in a framework of people being able to figure out an experiment and figure out the things that work for them. Because I’m sure, like you’re in the health world as well, I often get the question, you know, what do you do in this instance, or what specifically do you take, or what does your typical day look like, or what do you eat? And I always say, that’s the wrong question because I’ve only figured that out for me. And each of us has to begin that process and figure out, and it’s always changing.

That’s the beauty of it is even if you figure it out, it changes seasonally, it changes, like you said, hormonally for women. So we’re in a constant journey and evolution of this. I’m also a big fan of cycling things and not doing anything all the time. I’m personally a big believer that the body can adapt very quickly to things, and I don’t want mine to get used to getting any supplement every single day, or getting any food every single day, or even getting food, in general, every single day. So I mix up a lot with diet and supplements and fasting and that’s something that you do as well.

This podcast is brought to you by Gaia herbs and their black elderberry syrup! I’ve been a big fan of Elderberry syrup for years and theirs is the best premade one I’ve found. You can experience for yourself why it is America’s Favorite Organic Black Elderberry Syrup! It is the #1 best-selling organic Black Elderberry syrup in the U.S. This time of year, it is a medicine cabinet staple and immune season essential. Elderberry will help your family stay feeling well with the delicious immune elixir loved by adults and children alike. It is Certified organic – this powerful syrup concentrates the juice from 14.5 grams of elderberries in a single teaspoon, so it’s highly potent. It is made with just four clean whole-food ingredients and is vegan, dairy-free, gluten-free and soy-free, making it safe for most people. Black Elderberry Syrup is safe for the whole family and is formulated for adults and children age 1 and older. You can save big on Gaia Herbs by going to gaiaherbs.com/wellnessmama and use code WELLNESSMAMA at checkout for 20% off your first purchase.

This episode is sponsored by Wellnesse, a new company I co-founded to create safe, natural and obsessively tested products for families. You’ve heard that much of what you put on your body gets absorbed and goes into your body. We turned this idea on its head, creating products that aren’t just safe to put on your hair, skin and in your mouth, but that are beneficial. We started with the toughest first, creating the first of its kind natural toothpaste that is free of fluoride and glycerin and that contains ingredients like green tea, neem and hydroxyapatite to support the mouth. Our haircare is free of harmful ingredients and contains ingredients like lavender and nettle to support healthy hair! Be the first to try it at wellnesse.com

And you also mentioned, I wanna go back to the idea of fight-or-flight and sympathetic versus parasympathetic because I think that’s an important key that a lot of us miss. You could have everything else dialed in, and this was me for years, you can have your diet dialed in and perfect. You can be exercising, you can have sleep dialed in. If you don’t address whatever the stress whether it’s cellular, whether it’s emotional, whatever it is, if you are in fight-or-flight, you’re not gonna see the biggest benefit from any of those things. So I’m curious if you have anything that you have found or any series of things that have been helpful with that or any tips for people adopting the mental framework for being able to make these changes and to remain in parasympathetic?

Caleb: Absolutely. Yeah. And part of that is exactly what you just said, tying in the nervous system, is taking those breaks and cycling things on a regular basis. I do the same, you know, I take a break from all supplements. I can take a break from all food, you know, the fasting periods, and you cycle that through. And that is something that is really key and critical for giving your nervous system when it needs to relax. And there are so many simple things you can go from very simple to, you know, just laying down and getting horizontal. You know, with my wife that was actually one challenge that she had of these chronic sneezing fits because her body was sort of locked into this stressed state in the nervous system. It was always thinking it was under attack and under, you know, some sort of threat at all times.

And I just noticed that she had the sneezing attacks, and I said, you know, “Honey, if you just lay down, just lay down.” She’s like, “What do you mean?” She’s sneezing, you know, intensely, and it’s really challenging. She can barely talk, her eyes are watering. And I just told her lay down, and she laid down. And when you lay down, your vagus nerve sends a signal that’s essentially like, okay, we’re laying down, that means it’s safer than standing up, very simply. And that laying down her sneezing texture disappeared, they just stopped entirely. And I had her stand back up and they came back.

And so, again, that clued me into realizing, okay, there’s a pattern here. And that pattern is that your nervous system thinks and believes it’s in fight-or-flight right now. That’s a very stressful state to be in, very high cortisol state, which is very oxidative and very stressful on the cells and the rest of your body, and your mitochondria working overtime to try to support that. And you can all the way go to, for example, the biomedical technology world. There’s one incredible one which is called microcurrent therapy, and it uses electricity, again, one of the natural forces, electricity, magnetism, gravity, pressure, all these natural forces of physics of what govern our environment that shapes us and how our bodies operate, and also how the nervous system ties in.

And with that, they actually go through and they can help your nervous system essentially calm down and relax and using electrical stimulation to tell the vagus nerve in other parts of your body, whether it’s your gut, or whether it’s your brain. Various different people have different challenges there, they’ll put you into the same state. And a technology like that, which is a bit more advanced, but they can go through and do a few sessions on you and your body actually is like okay, yes, I can relax and I can, you know, let go of that stress. And a lot of it’s very mental and psychological too.

So, you know, if you don’t feel appreciated, if you don’t feel loved, if you don’t feel supported in various ways, whether it’s your partner, whether it’s your family dynamic, whether it’s your friends or community, the work you do, there’s many different angles of life that affect us in these ways. And any of these aspects that stress us out, it changes everything from our breathing to our heart rate variability to our nervous system response to what it’s thinking, threats or not. And so really creating however you can in your environment safety in a safe place. And a great place to start is the bedroom. You know, make it pitch black dark as you can, lock the door, if you have to. You know, if you have wonderful, furry pets to sleep with, that’ll actually help you sleep better as well because they act as a guard, they’re able to hear things and sense things before you can. So you can actually sleep deeper and they’ve done some fascinating studies on this.

And you can see how these different connections all together create a comfortable environment for you to sleep and relax and recover. And that’s one of the highest leverage areas you can focus on is optimizing your sleep cycle and your sleep protocol in that sense. And getting that nervous system out of fight-or-flight is really key. But, again, going out and getting light in your eyes, light on your skin, your feet grounded to the earth, breathing so many deep breaths, you know, you can breathe in for four seconds and breathe out for six seconds. That’s a very simple one that anyone can do to calm your heart rate down and increase your coherence.

And the coherence level of your heart rate variability is what is gonna allow your body to realize that it is safe to operate, it is safe to rejuvenate repair. And you don’t have to be in this chronic stressed state of fight-or-flight or what’s going on here. There are so many angles to it. If you need to go walk in nature, go walk in nature. You know, if you wanna relax and watch a movie, you can watch a movie. Really, it depends on where you are, where you live, you know, how you live your lifestyle. But there’s always a way to figure out even if it’s as simple as laying down flat for 15, 20 minutes, you know.

And another great one is to lay down flat on your back and put your knees up onto a chair. And you’re kind of sitting in a chair but laying backwards. And when you’re doing that, you’re allowing the blood flow to circulate in a way that lets your body calm down and relax and get that response back into that rejuvenating stimulatory in a positive way. And not overstimulated in a stressful response of the nervous system being like, “Oh, no, what’s happening?” We wanna get out of that and we want to get into the rest and relax, and the rest and digest, you know, some people refer to it as, and that that calm, stable, resilient sense of you can handle anything at any time, no matter what life throws you.

Katie: Such good advice. And I’m curious if there’s any tips you would give for those listening who are hopefully not dealing with a major health crisis but want to, for instance, put off aging as long as possible. Are there any practical takeaways or tips that you would give for that?

Caleb: Oh, for sure. So, you know, really, again, you know, going from the bottom of the hierarchy up on the spectrum of, you know, really getting your diet adjusted to your lifestyle, what you need. Having that real, whole food, having, you know, whether it’s carnivore ketogenic, how you choose to play around, just really nutrient-dense foods, organic when possible, having the grass-fed, grass-finished meats. You know, going through, get that nutrient density from the bone marrow, the organ meats, you know, all that stuff supports methylation as well and detoxification pathways in addition to that.

And you’ve got supplementation, you know, there’s supplements out there. For example, like marine phytoplankton is almost like pure ATP, it’s like sunshine in a bottle. You can actually take a supplement like this, which is what helps whales grow to the size and strength that they are in the oceans, and you can really see how your body can utilize that as pure energy put in, doesn’t cost much ATP in your body to use the ATP that is produced in a supplement like that. It’s from a whole food source. And there’s many other versions of that and good high-quality oils and good high-quality fats across the board dietarily, and shaping your environment, and really just getting that safety, like we talked about, however you can. Start in the bedroom if you can and move out from there.

You know, technology is another big stressor across the board. So if you can block that blue light and you can calm your brain down, calm down your eyes and your mitochondrial cells so they can focus on that optimization is really critical and key. Again, you know, the breathing habits and dialing all the way through to even advanced technologies you can get into from CVAC pods to the NanoVi device is a fantastic one that, again, is based on biophysics and health and light in that sense.

And all the way through just figuring out how to stop eating as much, intermittent fasting-wise, like we don’t need as much food as we think we do. So fasting is one of those critical keys that we have is a built-in program. And even if you stop eating a few hours before bed at night, you’re gonna notice dramatic changes to your weight, to your energy levels, to how radiant you show up, and how much light you shine. Getting in nature, all the way across there, there’s so many different aspects.

You get into the anti-aging longevity aspect of how psyllium metabolism works. There’s a few that are very popular now, so like NMN and NR, for example, nicotinamide mononucleotide is NMN, and nicotinamide riboside is, you know, subtype of B3 vitamin that supports NAD+, NAD function in your cells. And that’s a really critical one. You can go straight to the NAD+ patches, you know, they have these electrophoresis patches with a battery you slap on, it’ll actually help you absorb it transdermally. You can do IV-based therapy with that too, but it is a very intensive therapy that not everyone has access to just yet.

But really getting those key nutrients, getting connected with nature, getting in tune and in touch with your own intuition and connecting with the natural cycles of light, of time, of geomagnetic location of where you are in the earth, and ideally aligning that to your genetics and also to what’s available in your local foodshed and having that clean water as well. You know, it’s spring water, you know, ideally, just good, clean, fresh water across the board help heal you in that sense all the way through.

And you can go through from, you know, hot and cold therapy, you know, if you get the sauna, you got that great detox and the heat stress and heat-shock proteins and great detox effects from that. And you can go through Wim Hof style, you can get in the cold. You know, if it’s wintertime where you are, you can do a cold plunge. You can go to a spa that might have a cold water pool you can get into, and that training, even a cold shower for five minutes in the morning will have so many great benefits for you and help build willpower and build resilience and build strength. You know, if you can do that and get up in the morning, and breathe and meditate if you like, have some good food, or not at all if you’re intermittent fasting, have a cold shower for even a few minutes at a time, all those little steps add up to much, much bigger compounded wins and synergies all throughout life.

And all of that confers to longevity and the sort of anti-aging type approach because we have the intelligence to do that, we need to get out the toxins, and we need to get in the nutrients, and we need to get in the light, and we need to keep that stimulation of stem cell proliferation and psyllium metabolism optimized. And, again, mitochondrial health is super key to that and light is what’s driving all of that from genetics all the way up the chain.

Katie: I love it. This has been so much information and so practical and actionable. I’ll make sure that I will link to…I know you have information on a lot of these topics, and I also do, those who will be linked in the show notes at wellnessmama.fm. So if you guys are listening, make sure to find all of them linked there. Another question I love to ask at the end of episodes, if there’s a book or a number of books that have really dramatically impacted your life, if so, what are they and why?

Caleb: Oh, so, you know, one of them is gonna be the notebooks of Leonardo da Vinci, funny enough, it’s about 16,000 pages long. So, maybe not everyone’s personal read or very accessible, but one that is, that is a really huge game-changer for understanding how light affects health is a book called “Health and Light” by John Ott, J-O-H-N O-T-T is his last name. And he actually was a time-lapse photographer and cinematographer. And he actually worked on “The Secrets of Life” documentary with Disney and did segments for that back in 1956, the year my mom was born.

And I got into that book and I’m studying mitochondrial function, how light affects health, and he just noticed it from observation. You know, even all those years back he sees that, wow, if I have this type of lighting, this tomato grows bigger or smaller. And he worked with full-spectrum lighting and he’s like, “When I just put it in the sun, it grew larger and stronger. So what about me as a living being, like if I get more light, will that help my health?” And so he really goes through and breaks down very simply how light affects health in those various ways. And we’ve learned so much more scientifically beyond that. So I highly recommend “Health and Light” by Dr…he’s not a doctor, but cinematographer John Ott. It’s a huge, huge one.

And then, you know, another one “Iconoclast” by Gregory Berns is a fantastic one from a neuroscience perspective of just how you can live a great life and really have these iconic thinking moments, no matter where you are. But it’s such a powerful influence to think bigger and go bigger, in a sense, that you can do so much more with your life if you want. And wherever you are, you can be happy and be still and be at peace within yourself. You know, the work of Byron Katie, for example, on the psychological aspect of, you know, the stories our minds create, you know, are they true, are they not? Her work is very profound from a psychological wellness perspective. And again, that nervous system, calming the nervous system down from the mind is a key.

And there’s so many more, I could go on and on, but again, understanding evolutionary psychology and biology is really fun. If you’re a geek and you want to get into it, all these things tie together, and you’ll see the patterns coalesce. And you’ll start seeing, you know, essentially the code of the matrix of really how you can make different choices big or small, along the spectrum and identifying how you can live the best healthiest, happiest, most joyous and blissful life possible, and still be productive, and rock and roll and have so much fun, and also support and take care of those you love and those you serve.

Katie: I love it. Caleb, we’ll have links in the show notes, but where can people find you to keep learning?

Caleb: Yeah. So I have some information at calebjennings.com, I’ll be updating that soon with some more details. As well as, you know, you can go find some more intel, I’m going to be producing a lot more content through Activation Products. You can go to activationproducts.com/wellnessmama for more intel and details on that. And we have some really great content coming out to help educate about these base elements. And, again, all these aspects of biohacking, the holistic integration of how you can optimize health in various different ways, like we’ve been speaking about here, to supplementation, nootropics, all the way to advanced medical technologies and beyond.

But it’s all interconnected, and we’re all connected in that sense. So if you approach life with that, with, you know, just joyous mentality and having fun experimenting, trying new things here and there, getting outside your comfort zone, that’s where growth occurs. And that’s what I encourage you to do on a daily basis and just have so much fun with it.

Katie: I love it. Caleb, thanks so much for the time today.

Caleb: Absolutely, Katie. Thank you, it was a blast.

Katie: And thanks as always to all of you for sharing your time with us today. We’re so grateful that you did, and I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the “Wellness Mama Podcast.”

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.

Thanks to Our Sponsors

This podcast is brought to you by Gaia herbs and their black elderberry syrup! I’ve been a big fan of Elderberry syrup for years and theirs is the best pre-made one I’ve found unless you want to make your own. You can experience for yourself why it is America’s Favorite Organic Black Elderberry Syrup! It is the #1 best-selling organic Black Elderberry syrup in the U.S. This time of year, it is a medicine cabinet staple and immune season essential. Elderberry will help your family stay feeling well with the delicious immune elixir loved by adults and children alike. It is Certified organic – this powerful syrup concentrates the juice from 14.5 grams of elderberries in a single teaspoon, so it’s highly potent. It is made with just four clean whole-food ingredients and is vegan, dairy-free, gluten-free and soy-free, making it safe for most people. Black Elderberry Syrup is safe for the whole family and is formulated for adults and children age 1 and older. You can save big on Gaia Herbs by going to Gaiaherbs.com/WellnessMama and use code WELLNESSMAMA at checkout for 20% off your first purchase.

This episode is sponsored by Wellnesse, a new company I co-founded to create safe, natural and obsessively tested products for families. You’ve heard that much of what you put on your body gets absorbed and goes into your body. We turned this idea on its head, creating products that aren’t just safe to put on your hair, skin and in your mouth, but that are beneficial. We started with the toughest first, creating the first of its kind natural toothpaste that is free of fluoride and glycerin and that contains ingredients like green tea, neem and hydroxyapatite to support the mouth. Our haircare is free of harmful ingredients and contains ingredients like lavender and nettle to support healthy hair! Be the first to try it at Wellnesse.com

]]>
clean no 00:57:50 Katie Wells
320: Coffee: Everything You Need to Know – With Andrew Salisbury of Purity Coffeehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/purity-coffee/ Mon, 09 Mar 2020 11:00:04 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=423908

This episode is all about one of my favorite drinks (no, not wine)… coffee! Today we are going answer the perennial question of whether coffee is good for you or not. For help I’ve asked Andrew Salisbury, founder of over 14 companies in the last 25 years, to tell us about his latest (and my favorite) company, Purity Coffee.

I drink Purity Coffee every day because it’s amazing coffee, but also because like my other favorite companies, they test everything for quality and are very transparent about the results.

Switching out the quality of our food and drink is one of the easiest things we can do to improve health and wellness, especially when it’s something we consume anyway. Since coffee is one of the most largely consumed beverages in the world (especially by moms!), I knew this was the place to start.

Episode Highlights With Purity Coffee

  • How every cup per day you drink of coffee correlates to a reduced risk of Type 2 diabetes
  • The connection between coffee consumption and liver health
  • Why coffee consumption correlates to a 4% decrease in all cause mortality risk
  • How all coffee is not created equal, and how to find a good one
  • What it means to be a fast metabolizer vs. a slow metabolizer of caffeine
  • The amount of coffee you should drink (hint: it’s not the same for all of us)
  • What mycotoxins are, if they are dangerous, and how to know if your coffee has them
  • The best way to prepare coffee for maximum health benefits
  • And more!

Resources We Mention

More From Wellness Mama

Do you love coffee… or hate it? Did you learn something new from the podcast? Please drop a comment below or leave a review on iTunes to let us know. We value knowing what you think and this helps other moms find the podcast as well.

Read Transcript

Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.

This podcast is sponsored by The Ready State. If you’re at all like me, you might have perpetual stiffness and pain in your neck and shoulders from years of working, carrying kids and all of the demands of parenting. Or sore hips from too much sitting or multiple pregnancies. I found a great way to relieve my aches and pains and improve my fitness and flexibility. It’s from someone I highly respect… Dr. Kelly Starrett at The Ready State. If you don’t know Kelly, he’s a Mobility and movement coach for Olympic gold medalists, world champions, and pro athletes. He’s the Author of two New York Times bestselling books, including “Becoming a Supple Leopard”, which has sold over half a million copies. He has over 150,000 hours of hands-on experience training athletes at the highest levels. He’s a Doctor of Physical Therapy who helps top companies, military organizations, and universities improve the wellness and resilience of their team members. He created a program called Virtual Mobility Coach. This program is easy to do from home each day, making it ideal for me, and for most moms. And I can do with my kids. Every day, Virtual Mobility Coach gives you fresh, guided video exercises. They show you proven techniques to take care of your body, relieve pain, and improve flexibility. And you can customize your videos in three ways. If you’re in pain, you can pull up a picture of the human body and click on what hurts. And from there, Virtual Mobility Coach will give you a customized pain prescription to help you find relief, based on movement. Second, you can find a library of soothing recovery routines in the daily maintenance section. They’re a great way to wind-down and practice self-care from the comfort of your home. And third, for athletes, Virtual Mobility Coach also has an entire section of pre- and post-exercise routines for more than four dozen sports and activities. They help you warm-up before your workout so you can perform your best with a lower risk of injury. Right now, you can try Virtual Mobility Coach totally risk-free for two weeks without paying a penny. And after that, you can get 50% off your first three months. Just go to thereadystate.com/wellnessmama and use code WELLNESSMAMA50 at checkout. That’s half-off your first three months when you sign up for a monthly plan. And you’ll get personalized techniques to relieve nagging pain and improve your fitness and flexibility.

This podcast is brought to you by Radiant Life Catalog. Radiant Life is a woman-owned, family-run online health and wellness company specializing in food-based supplements, nutrient dense foods, eco-friendly housewares and water filtration and purification. After spending over 20 years in the health industry, Radiant Life realized that one of the overlooked components of wellbeing is access to clean, healthy and hydrating water. Now, they have a range of filters that fix this for every type of house and budget from counter top to under counter and even whole house like the one we have. Their systems are crafted with a health and wellness focus. They improve the taste and smell of water but, more importantly, they remove a wide range of potentially harmful contaminants. They also have and in-house water expert is available all the time to guide you through the system selection process and answer all of your questions via phone or email. Their systems are also designed and built in the USA and really high quality. Go to radiantlife.com/wellnessmama and get $200 off a Whole House or 14-Stage Water System with the code WMPODCAST.

Katie: Hello, and welcome to “The Wellness Mama Podcast.” I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com. And this episode is all about one of my favorite drinks, coffee, and we are going to cut through some of the confusion about whether it is good for you or not, and how much, if there’s a dose-dependent response, and the best way to get the most from your coffee.

I am here with Andrew Salisbury, who is the founder of over 14 companies in the last 25 years in 6 countries, including Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Columbia, Ireland, and the USA. His latest company, Purity Coffee, is a project of passion and a favorite company of mine. And at Purity, they are very health-focused, and like some of my other favorite companies, they test everything for quality and they’re very transparent about the results.

I personally believe that switching out the quality of different foods and drinks is one of the easiest things we can do to improve health and wellness, especially when it’s something we consume anyway. And since coffee is one of the most largely consumed beverages in the world, I thought this was an important place to start. I know that you’re really going to enjoy this episode if you are a coffee-drinker like I am.

So, without further ado, let’s join Andrew. Andrew, welcome. Thank you for being here.

Andrew: Thanks a lot for having me on.

Katie: Well, we get to talk about one of my favorite topics today, which is coffee and I’m drinking coffee right now. It’s the most morning beverage for me and I know that it’s something that gets talked about quite a bit in the wellness world and there’s a little bit of debate about it, but in general, we know that there are some benefits attached to coffee. Of course, it’s one of the most loved drinks in the world and many of the people listening are quite big fans. But to start, I would love to just kind of start broad and talk about coffee in general and what we know about, I don’t want to say the benefits of coffee, but the constituents of coffee and how they affect the body.

Andrew: Yes. It’s sort of interesting. Most people are not aware that coffee is the number one source of antioxidants in the American diet, which I think is when I first discovered this, I thought…I was a little bit blown away. There’s so much talk about things like blueberries and kale and eating the rainbow and all these things are very, very valid. But if you’re a coffee drinker, you get most of your antioxidants from coffee because coffee is actually very high in polyphenols and very high in antioxidants. And it’s something that most of us, you know, 164 million Americans will get up this morning and drink a cup of coffee. So that’s perhaps one of the most interesting facts I find about coffee

Katie: That is fascinating. And from what I’ve read it is by far one of the most consumed beverages in the world after water. But the majority of the world consumes coffee relatively regularly, right?

Andrew: That’s right. I like to get my water from coffee, so my wife’s telling me all the time to drink more water, but I prefer to get it from my coffee. But yeah, absolutely. It’s one of the most popular beverages. In fact, one of the reasons why we’re so interested in this focus on coffee and health. Because if you think about something that people do every single day, 164 million Americans drink coffee, if you can make a change to something that people do repeatedly, then you’re going to have a real impact on overall health and longevity. And that’s one of the reasons why we’re so focused on this. We don’t need to have behavior change. We don’t need to persuade people to drink something that they’re unfamiliar with. Just get a better quality coffee.

Katie: Yeah, I absolutely agree. I’m a big fan when it comes to health of changes that can either be made one time and then have lasting effects where that you can change something about your routine like you said, that you’re already doing, so you’re not having to add anything. There’s no effort. On an unrelated note, I love this thing. I sleep with every night called the chiliPAD and it goes underneath my sheet and it keeps my bed cooler. And we know that from the data that sleeping at a certain temperature is beneficial for sleep quality. But rather than cooling the whole house, I can just cool my bed is energy efficient and now that it’s set up, I don’t have to think about it.

So it’s a very easy health addition because it’s not something that requires any effort. And I feel like that’s what we’re talking about. With coffee or with any food or anything that you upgrade, when you improve the quality of something that you’re consuming anyway, it doesn’t take any extra effort, but you get extra benefits. And I’ve read before, I don’t know if this is correct, but that coffee is the largest source of antioxidants in most of the American diets. For most people, it’s probably the biggest source of antioxidants. Is that true from what you’ve read?

Andrew: It is. If you look at the ORAC table, which is the measurement of antioxidants in the diet, you’re going to find the first 30 or 40 things that are very high in antioxidants, spices and those are things like peppermints and oregano and just various spices because we don’t consume those in enough quantity that it’s going to make a huge impact even though they’re very high. But then further down from there and very high up on that table is coffee, the different ways you would brew coffee, cacao that sort of thing. Chocolate and coffee are the two highest in antioxidants that people consume on a regular basis.

Katie: Got it. And then what else is present in coffee? Because I think most people just think of coffee for the taste and for the caffeine, but there’s a lot of other stuff going on when it comes to coffee, right?

Andrew: That’s right. When we started, purely our focus was we wanted to make every decision based on health. And so that meant the absence of bad stuff. So, the pesticides and molds and things like that that we want to avoid, but the presence of more of the good qualities in coffee and the good qualities that the products that we want more of, compounds we want more of are the antioxidants, the CGAS, the polyphenols. But inside of that, there’s various other compounds that are beneficial in coffee that are created either in the farm with green bean, also through roasting, but we also want to dial-up. So chlorogenic acids is the number one compound that we look for. Then there’s other things like trigonelline, chlorogenic lactones are important and there’s just various… It’s a bit of a juggling act. If you know what to look for, you know what to roast for, then you can maximize those compounds. But you need to be very conscious, how you roast the coffee to make sure you get more of those compounds.

Katie: Gotcha. And those people aren’t roasting their own coffee and probably not even aware of the process of roasting the coffee. Does this vary based on the types of coffee that people would be familiar with? For instance, I know I’ve heard of like dark roast and light roast and all these different terms. Do those have actual like defined meanings and does that affect what the finished coffee will have in it?

Andrew: Absolutely. Almost every decision you make with coffee all the way from the coffee cherry and where it’s grown, to the way it’s processed, to the way it’s roasted, to the way it’s shipped, and the way you actually serve it in the end, will have an impact on the health benefits of coffee. So, it’s actually quite complex. And the starting point is that the chlorogenic acids that you want in coffee, they’re highest in the green bean when you haven’t roasted the coffee, but they can vary wildly from plantation to plantation, region to region, farm to farm. And there’s no sort of great predictor of what coffee is going to be highest in chlorogenic acids on the farm. So, really, the first step is you have to lab test coffee from around the world and pick the ones that are highest in chlorogenic acids. And then the roasting protocol, the way you manage the roast, that’s a balancing act between heat and time. And the darker you roast a coffee, the more you take away the antioxidants in the coffee. So very dark roasted coffee has 5%, 10% of the antioxidants that you could have in a coffee that’s roasted correctly.

Katie: Oh, wow. That’s a huge difference for sure. And I know just from being in the studies myself and reading PubMed pretty regularly that there are a lot of studies related to coffee consumption, to caffeine consumption, to the antioxidants in coffee. And I know that this is something you monitor closely as well. So what are we actually seeing in the research in the literature right now when it comes to these components of coffee and how they might be beneficial?

Andrew: Yeah. And there’s been some amazing studies that have come out recently, but the thing that we’re seeing is a reversal from around 15 years ago when there were cancer-warning labels or the idea that the coffee could potentially be cancer-causing. And those are all based on studies that were done in the ’50s and ’60s, where they didn’t sort for the fact of the people who’re drinking coffee were also smokers and drinking a lot of alcohol and not exercising. And when they sorted for those cofounders, what they found out is the results actually reversed.

And so the World Health Organization came out about four years ago, five years ago to say that it has a positive benefit on the lowering the risk of six forms of cancer. So basically, the studies are coming out stronger and stronger in terms of all of the health benefits of coffee as they link to things like the prevention of type 2 diabetes, liver health, heart disease. And again, a lot of that seems to be linked to the high antioxidant quality of the coffee.

Katie: Gotcha. And I know those are obviously big topics right now in the health world because we’re seeing a rise and pretty much all of these. Before we go any further, I want to also talk about are there any massive downsides to be aware of when it comes to coffee consumption? Like I think of a lot of things in life sort of on a bell curve of there’s a sweet spot of consumption. Is that true with coffee as well?

Andrew: I think that the thing you have to think about here is the…is a lot of people conflate coffee with caffeine. It’s just a delivery system for caffeine. And it really isn’t. The antioxidants are the things that are the most important part about coffee when it comes to health benefits. But the problem is you are drinking the caffeine and there’s a sort of diminishing marginal returns on the amount of caffeine that you should drink.

So depending on whether your… People are broken into fast metabolizers of caffeine or slow metabolizers of caffeine, and if you’re a slow metabolizer of caffeine, it means it stays in your body for longer and you’re going to be the sort of person that has a coffee at let’s say mid-day and has problems sleeping. I’m the sort of person that can have double espresso and go to sleep at night because I’m a fast metabolizer of caffeine. So caffeine is the thing that you really want to watch out for.

So when it comes to any detrimental effects of coffee, you really just have to watch your body and how it reacts to the caffeine in the coffee. The recommended intake of coffee is between four and six cups, but then there’s no reason why you wouldn’t switch to decaf to get more of the polyphenols, more of the antioxidants in the coffee and not have any of the downsides. I hope that answers your question.

Katie: It does. When it comes to being a fast metabolizer of caffeine versus a slow metabolizer, is that it all related to someone’s caffeine tolerance or is that a genetic thing that’s separate of how much coffee your body is used to consuming?

Andrew: It’s actually a genetic thing. You can do, say, a 23andMe and find out if you’re a faster or a slow metabolizer of coffee. But probably you already know which one you are because if you’re sensitive to a cup of coffee, if you’re someone listening to this and you realize you have to be very conscious of the amount of coffee you consume before you get either nervousness or jitters, then you’re a slow metabolizer of caffeine. And if you can drink a lot of coffee and it doesn’t seem to bother you and just gives you steady energy, then you’re a fast metabolizer.

Katie: Got it. Okay. Well, I know it’s good news for a lot of people listening and for me as well because I love coffee, that, in general, the data points to it being healthy, especially if we know what to look for and we’re consuming it in the right amounts and correctly. And I’m also a big fan. I would guess I’m a slow metabolizer of caffeine, so I try to limit my caffeine, but then I’ll switch to decaf just because I love the taste of black coffee.

Andrew: Absolutely.

Katie: Yeah. And I think that’s a great way to balance it. I also, just personally I’m a big fan of not doing anything every single day. So I don’t take supplements on the weekend, I don’t drink coffee every day. Or if I do, I’ll drink decaf just to mix it up because I don’t want my body to fully adapt to anything. And so that’s another trick that I’ll sometimes use to make sure I can still consume coffee and that it’s effective and efficient when I do consume it versus developing that tolerance.

Andrew: Yeah. Okay. Great. What’s the sort of decaf that you drink as well though? There’s a couple of methods of the caffeinated you’d want to avoid, which is the chemical methods and I’m not sure which method your coffee uses when you drink a coffee. But Swiss Water, or critical CO2 is the best two ways to remove caffeine from the coffee and then you still keep the antioxidants.

Katie: Okay. That’s good to know. So I drink your decaf coffee, but I would love to explain that for everyone listening. Because I know this was something I didn’t understand for a really long time. So explain that there’s various methods we can use to get the caffeine out of coffee or reduce it truly. Because it’s not completely gone, but explain how those different methods work and which ones we want to look out for.

Andrew: Okay. So our focus was, in some of the decisions that we make are relatively easy to make and some are more complex. And this was a relatively easy decision to make. There’s two methods. The main two methods that uses chemicals to leach the caffeine or take the caffeine out of the coffee. We decided to move away from those very quickly. And the reason is that we just didn’t want to introduce chemicals into a product that was already so good for you. And we found that there was leaching of the chlorogenic acids in that process. So they were ruled out almost immediately.

The best method we found is Swiss Water method, which works through an activated charcoal filter by heating the water that the coffee sits in. And then an activated charcoal filter traps the caffeine particles which is a little bit larger than the other particles. And then the water is reintroduced into the coffee and you’re getting natural water process to decaffeinate the coffee. Critical CO2 is another process, but it’s only done in Germany right now. And when we tested the two, we didn’t see a noticeable difference in chlorogenic acids. So we think both would work well. The most convenient method is the Swiss Water for us.

Katie: Got it. Okay. So that’s what people need to know if they’re looking for decaf. And I know there are people who for various health reasons have to avoid or severely limit caffeine. So, of course, that’s an easy way to still get the benefits and the antioxidants without getting too much caffeine. Also, I’d love to talk about mold and coffee because this is a topic that has become increasingly… Just talked about increasingly in the health world especially. And it seems like there’s a lot of debate and controversy when it comes to the potential of mold and mycotoxins in coffee. So what’s your take on that and how do we know if something that’s present in coffee?

Andrew: Well, I think the first thing is that, unfortunately, there is a lot of mold in coffees. But we’ve never seen the numbers that have been quoted in some of the studies. Some of the studies that we’re looking at show 50% and above. That’s not what we found when we tested the top 49 coffees in the U.S. But we still found 20%, 22% had mold, yeast or ochratoxin A. So it’s a big enough problem where you need to be aware of it. And it’s a big enough problem that, you know, with relatively easy solve that you should make sure that you don’t have mold in your coffee.

I hope it’s a standard that all coffee producers will pick up pretty quickly because it really is a major health issue and it’s very easy to solve for. The problem is that the mold arise in your coffee in lots of different ways and so you really got to make sure that all the way through the production process of coffee, there’s no way that mold can develop. So it’s not one easy fix. It doesn’t just occur on the farm and it can occur in the roaster and it can occur when it’s being shipped.

And there’s lots of reasons, unfortunately, why mold occurs in these different stages. If I want to drill down a little bit, one of the areas that mold happens in the very first place is the fact that with industrial farming, what happens is you’ve got rows of coffee trees and those coffees on the tree, those coffee cherries will ripen at different times. So you could pick a tree that has perfectly ripe cherries at the same time as underripe green cherries, and there’s overripe black cherries on that coffee tree.

With industrial farming, what they’ll do is they’ll take a tractor and they’ll take it all the way through the rows of coffee trees, scraping up all of the cherries, whether they’re ripe or underripe or overripe, leaves and twigs. And then their job is to sort it afterwards and to remove the impurities from the coffee. Well, the problem with that is its sort of like taking a moldy strawberry and putting it in a vat of fresh strawberries. You’ll come back to the next day and all your strawberries will be moldy.

So once you’ve introduced mold, even at these early stages, it’s very difficult to get rid of. Which is why we insist you have to have handpicked, hand-selected coffee cherries, which means you’re only picking the cherries that are ripe at the time. And then there’s various other methods. Unfortunately, some of the methods can be avoided. Some of the methods…

I was in a farm in Brazil and I saw a farmer spraying a mountain of coffee with water. And I was trying to understand, exactly why he would do that. And I thought that the coffee had already been processed correctly to this point. Why spray it with water? And he admitted to me that since the coffee was sold based on weight, if they spray it with water, it picks up the water because the coffee bean is very dry, picks up the water and they get paid more because obviously they get paid based on weight. And you’ve now got a product that’s going to be shipped for a month or two months, you know, that’s very moist. And that’s obviously going to create mold. So that’s just one of two ways that you can introduce mold into the coffee.

Katie: Oh, wow. And that makes total sense. And it seems like there would need to be a lot of control over that process and harvesting it. But is there any standard or way of knowing, if you’re just buying coffee, if that’s going to be an issue or not? I’m guessing not something that is really reported on any kind of label, is it?

Andrew: Not really. We’re trying to create a standard for this and there’s just a lot to them. But I mean, I can tell you the sort of things that your listeners should look for in coffee to avoid most of these problems and that’s just based on all of our lab testing, what we’ve seen. So would that be useful to just give you an overview of what to look for?

Katie: Yeah, absolutely. That was one of my next questions was like what is lab tested for in coffee and then what are the optimal ranges we’re looking for?

Andrew: Yeah. Well, so the starting point, so if you’re going to your local coffee roaster or if you’re going to buy coffee, the starting point is you need to ask for organic coffee. Coffee is the most heavily treated crop on the planet next to tobacco and cotton. And so you have a choice in both of those. But in terms of coffee, if it’s not organic then you’ll really ingesting a lot of chemicals. And also, the big problem is that the coffee is treated in countries that don’t have the same level of oversight. Meaning that pesticides that have been banned in the U.S are accepted in Brazil and there’s no sort of check and balance when it comes to pesticide residues when those coffees arrive into the U.S.

So starting point, there’s a minimum, your coffee needs to be organic. Then what you need to ask for is you need to ask for specialty grade coffee. Specialty grade as the highest grade of coffee. And the reason you would ask for that is that every time you move down the level in the grade of coffee is as a result of the thing called a primary defect. And a primary defect, every single one of those primary defects, although they affect taste to be tracked back to health, there are things like over-fermentation, cracked or broken beans. There’s a list of different things in primary defects that you want to avoid. And the only way to be sure you can avoid those primary defects is to say, “I want specialty grade coffee.”

So that’s the second thing that you should ask for. So specialty grade coffee and the way the coffee is roasted, ideally you want to find coffee that has been tested to be free of molds. But if you’re looking at an organic specialty grade coffee, it’s likely to be treated a lot better than the average commodity coffee. So you’ve got to sort of a safety net in there. Then the second thing is the way that the coffee is roasted. The problem is you can have just as great quality coffee and then if it’s over-roasted, you’re roasting away a lot of the antioxidants.

So those very dark roasts. There’s a bit of cheating going on with these dark roasts in the sense that the large coffee companies, their problem is that they want a coffee to taste exactly the same, whether it’s in Seattle or Singapore. And so the very best way to do that is to over roast the coffee so that the consumer is used to a burnt taste and they recognize that as coffee, but then you’re getting a fraction of the health benefits from that. So you’re looking for a medium roast, city to full city, nothing darker than that is the thing that you would ask for.

And then finally your coffee’s got to be fresh. That’s something that you can control from a consumer standpoint is to make sure your coffee was roasted no more than a few days ago when you get it and you want to consume it in the first sort of 15 to 20 days on the outside because antioxidants drop off on the coffee as well as it stales. Does that answer your…

Katie: Got it. Yeah, that definitely answers it. That makes total sense. And I know this, like I said in it or any industry, we see this in food as well. And in supplements and everything, there aren’t like really… It’s like industry-established standards that are required to be posted about this. And so it really is up to doing our own research essentially and then relying on the company being transparent and actually sharing this information to kind of know some of these things, right?

Andrew: Absolutely. You need to find a company that is concerned about the health benefits of coffee or at least concerned about the quality of the coffee. There’s certain power or certain things you can look for. People aren’t buying coffee based on health yet. They’re just starting. They’re starting to recognize how good coffee is for their health. They’re doing it every day, that it’s a small adjustment that they should make. Because they’re not buying coffee based on health, coffee producers are not looking to those sorts of decisions that will be relatively easy to make to improve the health benefits of coffee.

So that’s the sort of stage that we’re at right now, unfortunately. But there are some indicators. What we’ve learned is that the closer the coffee is grown to nature, the more likely it’s going to be beneficial for you in terms of being high in antioxidants. It’s not always true, but it’s true enough of the time where it’s a good sort of yardstick for you to look for coffee. So that means that the coffee is grown in a natural habitat, it’s shade-grown, is one of the labels to look for. Bird-friendly is another label to look for. Both of these are indicators that the coffee is grown instead of the industrial farming that we talked about earlier, it’s grown in its natural habitat. There’s a lot of ground cover. There’s leaves that are rotting, which is improving the quality of the soil. It’s bird-friendly, meaning that it hasn’t driven away the birds.

So one, it’s good for the environment and we care about that. Our primary driver is health and having coffee that’s bird-friendly means that Smithsonian-certified bird-friendly means that it’s likely to be grown in its natural habitat. Look for coffee that’s handpicked and hand-selected because again, that’s another indicator that they couldn’t put tractors to pick the coffee. They have to handpick, hand-select it, which means it’s much more likely to be in a rougher environment, you know, where there’s mango trees, there’s papaya trees, there’s coffee trees and the coffee needs to be handpicked.

Katie: Got it. Okay. So I know we talked about antioxidants in general in relation to coffee and we know coffee is a good source. I love to go deeper on just the health aspects of antioxidants in general and what we know from the literature about how antioxidants benefit the body. Because I know this is a topic, everybody is familiar with that word antioxidant, but to really understand, because there’s so much research on this and understanding all the ways in the body that antioxidants are beneficial, especially for a lot of these problems that we’re seeing really drastically on the rise right now. And I know one of the areas of research I’m really fascinated with right now is liver health because the liver is so connected to so many parts of the body. So from your research, what are you seeing when it comes to antioxidants and the liver?

Andrew: Yeah. So I’m not a doctor, so I can’t talk specifically about the mechanistic explanations of how it works on the body. But what I can say is that we’ve worked with some of the best coffee scientists in the world and doctors who have given us some really good directions on the compounds that we should care about. So the antioxidants, one of our big guys, and this has been Dr. Sanjiv Chopra. And Dr. Sanjiv Chopra was the last dean of Admissions at Harvard Med School. And he’s also a liver surgeon and he says that in 35 years as a liver surgeon, he’s never seen anybody with end-stage liver disease, that drinks three to five cups of coffee a day. Which, when I heard that, I was staggering.

So he’s a big proponent of coffee and health and he’s been lecturing in front of thousands of doctors really for longer than anybody talking about the health benefits of coffee. And the reason that he’s passionate about what we’re doing as a group is the fact that he feels like coffee is one of the best things that you can do to prevent liver damage. So, the example he uses is, look, if you’re going to be drinking alcohol, you need to be drinking coffee. That doesn’t mean there’s going to be a lot of problems with alcohol consumption, but it’s not going to affect the liver in the same way. And that, I found staggering and that’s one actionable piece of information I think that the people should be aware of.

The other one is the prevention of type 2 diabetes. And very large studies, one which is the nurses’ study, 1,109,000 people tracked over 25 years, shows that if you drink 3 to 5 cups of coffee from the baseline that you drink, you have an 8% lower chance of ever developing type 2 diabetes with… And so if you think of this as a sort of global problem that we’re dealing with this 25 million Americans who are diabetic, I’ve lost count right now, but there’s 81 million Americans that are pre-diabetic. And if they’re not aware that coffee consumption is one thing that they should be doing to reduce their risks, that’s a huge opportunity I think to help people in overall health.

Katie: No kidding. And of all the things we know we should be doing for health, like exercise and like eating healthy, clean diet, drinking good coffee is one of those not difficult and relatively enjoyable things, especially for those of us who like coffee and to have that potential for really supporting the body in that way I think is really astounding. And also takes off some of that guilt. Because there have been articles I’ve seen over the years, even there are some big online publications saying, “Coffee might not be as good as we thought.”

And I think the research is definitely supporting its benefits now, but for anyone who still has some reservation about should I be drinking this much coffee, it’s pretty incredible to hear that there are studies like that that really do support regular consumption of coffee. Again, of course, in line with everything we’ve talked about, making sure it’s a high-quality coffee, which is just like you’d want to do in food. There’s a huge difference between refined sugar and fruit or between a refined grain or refined anything and a really high-quality farm-grown version. So I think that same applies to coffee and I love that you are making that so transparent and easy for consumers to understand.

Andrew: Yeah, it’s so true of any food it’s difficult to say a definitive answer. Is fish good for you? Is meat good for you is, you know, it really depends. Was the salmon farm-raised or was it wild-caught or? Now, we have to learn to get into a little bit more detail with our food. And I don’t think we can make as you know, blanket statements about it. And I think the same is true of coffee and you made a very good points. I mean, this is something that most Americans do every single day. So if you can just make a small adjustment and get better quality coffee, then you’re going to do yourself a real service and it’s relatively easy thing to do. It’s not inaccessible. We’re not telling people to eat more kale and has to be of a certain variety. It’s just something you’re likely to be doing every day. And you can affect the health quality of that coffee just by selecting a little bit better.

Katie: Exactly. Yeah. Going back to that easy change that doesn’t take a lot of effort or time or really anything other than just changing out the beans that you’re making coffee with.

This podcast is sponsored by The Ready State. If you’re at all like me, you might have perpetual stiffness and pain in your neck and shoulders from years of working, carrying kids and all of the demands of parenting. Or sore hips from too much sitting or multiple pregnancies. I found a great way to relieve my aches and pains and improve my fitness and flexibility. It’s from someone I highly respect… Dr. Kelly Starrett at The Ready State. If you don’t know Kelly, he’s a Mobility and movement coach for Olympic gold medalists, world champions, and pro athletes. He’s the Author of two New York Times bestselling books, including “Becoming a Supple Leopard”, which has sold over half a million copies. He has over 150,000 hours of hands-on experience training athletes at the highest levels. He’s a Doctor of Physical Therapy who helps top companies, military organizations, and universities improve the wellness and resilience of their team members. He created a program called Virtual Mobility Coach. This program is easy to do from home each day, making it ideal for me, and for most moms. And I can do with my kids. Every day, Virtual Mobility Coach gives you fresh, guided video exercises. They show you proven techniques to take care of your body, relieve pain, and improve flexibility. And you can customize your videos in three ways. If you’re in pain, you can pull up a picture of the human body and click on what hurts. And from there, Virtual Mobility Coach will give you a customized pain prescription to help you find relief, based on movement. Second, you can find a library of soothing recovery routines in the daily maintenance section. They’re a great way to wind-down and practice self-care from the comfort of your home. And third, for athletes, Virtual Mobility Coach also has an entire section of pre- and post-exercise routines for more than four dozen sports and activities. They help you warm-up before your workout so you can perform your best with a lower risk of injury. Right now, you can try Virtual Mobility Coach totally risk-free for two weeks without paying a penny. And after that, you can get 50% off your first three months. Just go to thereadystate.com/wellnessmama and use code WELLNESSMAMA50 at checkout. That’s half-off your first three months when you sign up for a monthly plan. And you’ll get personalized techniques to relieve nagging pain and improve your fitness and flexibility.

This podcast is brought to you by Radiant Life Catalog. Radiant Life is a woman-owned, family-run online health and wellness company specializing in food-based supplements, nutrient dense foods, eco-friendly housewares and water filtration and purification. After spending over 20 years in the health industry, Radiant Life realized that one of the overlooked components of wellbeing is access to clean, healthy and hydrating water. Now, they have a range of filters that fix this for every type of house and budget from counter top to under counter and even whole house like the one we have. Their systems are crafted with a health and wellness focus. They improve the taste and smell of water but, more importantly, they remove a wide range of potentially harmful contaminants. They also have and in-house water expert is available all the time to guide you through the system selection process and answer all of your questions via phone or email. Their systems are also designed and built in the USA and really high quality. Go to radiantlife.com/wellnessmama and get $200 off a Whole House or 14-Stage Water System with the code WMPODCAST

Katie: As someone who is so involved in this world and I would guess has also tried many types of coffee and has developed ways for making it exceptional. I’d love to hear what your routine is for making coffee each morning because there are so many different methods and there’s so much debate on the best way both for taste and for getting all of those beneficial properties into the finished coffee. So what does your routine look like for making coffee?

Andrew: Yeah. And it really depends on time of day. So I’ll do a pour-over in the morning and my wife and I will have what we call our purity huddle, which is 20 minutes, 30 minutes just talking about the day. And the pour-over is relatively simple, easy way to make the coffee and then extracts most of the positive compounds. Then later on the day, I tend to move to espresso, which is again, another good way of making the coffee. And I just prefer black coffee. If you have really good quality coffee, you don’t need to add milk and sugar, which, you know, there really no benefits to doing that anyway. So if you’re drinking really good quality coffee, there’s no reason to add any of those things.

Katie: I agree. Well, I will say I wouldn’t want to have to become a coffee snob. I already was, but I have developed really strong systems for how I make coffee and I’m a big fan of the pour-over as well. And we use a glass Chemex and I grind my coffee fresh. I know that’s something else you talk about quite a bit is, waiting to grind the coffee until right before you make it. Is there a benefit there besides just the taste?

Andrew: There is. It’s all about oxidation. So the problem is that as coffee oxidizes, so if it’s in its full bean, it’ll take about 15 to 20 days to stale and then you’ll lose a lot of the antioxidants in the coffee as it stales. And the oils that you see on some coffee that you think, “Oh, this coffee looks beautiful.” The reality is that that’s the oils that are coming from the coffees as they turn rancid. So, most people, a lot of people are drinking coffee that stale.

The trick is, and the problem is that when you grind coffee, then you created much more of a surface area. And coffee is more like an avocado or an apple where if you cut it in half, you can actually visually see that it’s staling very quickly. But you can’t see that in coffee, but it is. It’s staling very quickly. So when you grind your coffee, then if you use it in the next half an hour or so, you’re fine. But if you leave it to sit in a container till the next day or grind the whole bag of coffee, then your first cup of coffee is going to be great. Your first pot of coffee is going to be great. And everything after that is going to be stale. And so the reason why that’s important is we make every decision based on health.

So we just go to these tremendous lengths to find the very best quality coffee, the highest in antioxidants, we roast it to maintain the antioxidants, we give it to you, nitrogen flush, so it’s fresh until you open the bag. All of these things to make sure you’re getting the highest quality coffee. But if you then take that bag and then grind it and then use it over the period of a week or whatever, you’re drinking stale coffee and a lot of the benefits that we worked hard to give you are lost for that reason.

Katie: Okay. Gotcha. That makes sense. And you said that we don’t need to add sugar or cream or anything to coffee, which I am full in agreement with. Especially there is such a difference I feel like with your coffee that’s so… It doesn’t have that acidic or bitter taste at all. So to me, it feels like there’s almost a natural sweetness to it. But there’s also this trend right now of adding literally everything imaginable to coffee in different ways. And I see people adding crazy amounts of fat or blending up a banana and coffee or like all these different things. Are there any things that are synergistic that work well with coffee or with the antioxidants that can make it more beneficial? Or is that really just based on taste?

Andrew: So we’ve been approached by a number of different companies talking to us about different things to add into our coffee. And we decided early on that we wanted to focus just on making the very best quality coffee we could for health and let people add those things in that they feel are likely to have an impact. So we’ve intentionally stayed removed from that conversation. These things that I do personally. Personally, I have MCT and butter in a coffee in the morning. I actually like the way my body reacts to that. But it’s just not something that we’re sort of promoting because what we’re trying to do is get people to focus on the fact that coffee by itself is incredibly good for you. You don’t need to add supplements to it. You don’t need to add anything to the coffee to make it an incredibly good food for your body. And so that’s where we want to focus on.

Katie: Got it. Okay. That makes sense. So it’s more of like, listen to your own body,see what works best for you, experiment. And I think really at the end of the day, that seems to be so much of health goes back to. And that’s been one of my lessons over this past year is, the end of the day, there’s million and one things we can all do in the name of health and a million and one things we can do that are not healthy. It’s finding those things that are the most beneficial for each of us and finding our own routines. And on that note, I always love to ask, are there any things that are also just really part of your health routine, maybe not related to coffee, but just that you find to be big needle movers in your own life?

Andrew: A huge one for me is meditation. Honestly, I think that’s probably one of the number one things I introduce later on in life that makes a huge difference. So I really can’t… And I do TM meditation, honestly, I think that’s probably one of the highest leverage points in my sort of lifestyle habits that had the biggest impact. There are lots of other things, but I think meditation and pausing a little bit and not getting off the hamster wheel to sort of take stock of your life in the direction you want to go in. It’s just a very impactful thing.

Katie: I absolutely agree. I know that you are a busy business owner as well, or do you have any tips for traveling with coffee? Because that’s always one of my pain points is at home I have this perfect coffee routine and the coffee’s amazing. And then if I drink coffee anywhere else anymore, I’m like, “Oh, it’s not as good.” So how do you travel with high-quality coffee?

Andrew: This is a problem I’ve just fixed. It’s a problem that I had myself personally. I had exactly the same frustration that you’ve had, which is that it’s very difficult to find really good quality coffee when you’re out and about even fantastic hotels. Typically, they underperform when it comes to the coffee you’re drinking. So what we’ve done is we put Purity Coffee in a single-serve sachet, like a teabag. It’s in a small bag, it’s nitrogen flushed and you treat it like a pour-over, like a teabag. You just literally put it in the bottom of the cup and then pour hot water over it and let it sit for four minutes and you’ve got a great pour-over. So that’s our solution to the problem. I’ll send you some.

Katie: Yeah, I would love to try and I’ll of course put links. I know we’ve mentioned several of your products and some other ways to brew coffee. I’ll make sure all those links are in the show notes at wellnessmama.fm. So I know many of you guys listen while exercising or driving. Don’t worry about writing this down while you’re doing those things. Just check out the show notes at wellnessmama.fm. Andrew, a couple of unrelated questions. I love to ask toward the end of episodes, are there any books that have been really influential in your life and if so, what are they and why?

Andrew: Wow, there’s so many. I love to read. I’m trying to think about the ones, how to narrow it down. I mean, I love Tony Robbins. I think he’s an incredible speaker. He’s doing something that very few people know how to do and are just a very high level. So “Unleash the Power Within” is one of his first books. That was formative for me because that set me on the road to personal development. And I think that’s an incredible book to read. I think there’s… Let me think. In terms of business books, I think probably the cultural book that I think was most impactful for me is “Bury My Heart at Conference Room B” which talks about just the importance of culture and how we get it wrong. And I think that’s a starting point. I think for most companies, I think if you get your culture wrong, you know, it’s very difficult to dig out of that hole. So that to me was very impactful. Yeah, there’s just so many. I mean really if you pick a subject, I drill them more, but I would say they’re the first two thought that come to mind.

Katie: Got it. And then any advice, can be related to coffee or not coffee, that you want to leave with the listeners today?

Andrew: Yeah, as far as… I mean, I’ll stick to my subject of coffee. The biggest advice I can give in that subject is that this is a high leverage point, which is easy for you to make an adjustment in. I think it’s worthwhile. I think it’s worthwhile at various levels. I think that as people start buying coffee based on health. As they start making health a criteria for why they buy coffee, it’s going to have a knock-on effect for the coffee producers. What’s happening right now in farms is that coffee is treated like a commodity and it’s treated like a commodity. I mean, it’s handled roughly. Money isn’t given to people who are doing an exceptional job.

Artists and farmers have been marginalized for big industrial farming. And then the people who are doing a really fantastic job and the small farms, this bird-friendly, handpicked, hand-selected, regenerative agriculture, people who are making coffee close to nature. As consumers start buying coffee based on health, they’re going to gravitate to those sort of high-quality products and that’s going to impact the farmers much more than writing a check or doing something on a local level, which is all great and should be done. Or paying a surcharge on the coffee that you buy, that really doesn’t move the needle as much as what will happen when consumer stop voting with their wallet and buying coffee of a higher quality. And that’s going to translate to high-quality coffee for their health, but we’ll also translate to making sure that we’re growing this important crop in a sustainable way with regenerative agriculture. That’ll be good for the local farmers that produce it. So I’d say, I think it’s an important initiative. I think people should take a look at the coffee they drink and pay attention to it.

Katie: Great advice. And I will make sure, I know we’ve talked specifically about Purity Coffee. I will make sure that there is a link to that in the show notes at wellnessmama.fm and I believe we have a special offer just for you guys who are listening and you can find that in the show notes as well, but other than website, and I’ll make sure that the link is there. Is there anywhere else they can find you online to stay in touch and keep learning?

Andrew: Website’s number one source. We’re on all sorts of social media and LinkedIn and Facebook and that sort of thing. But I would just say get direct to the website. And as we talked about early on, we try to be very, very transparent about this. So there’s no secret sauce that we’re hiding from people. We hope more coffee companies will take out this message of coffee and health. And so if you go to our site, you can read about our standards, our lab testing, what we test for, what we look for in coffee, how do we find it, and we want to be as transparent as possible. So and if there’s something that you’re looking for and you don’t find it there, reach out to me. I’m easy to find on our site.

Katie: Perfect. I will make sure all of that’s in the show notes. And Andrew, thank you so much for your time and being here today and for all the transparency that you guys have in lab testing and just being so above and beyond when it comes to coffee and for spreading the word.

Andrew: Absolutely. Thanks a lot for having me on the show. I really appreciate it

Katie: And thanks as always to all of you for listening and sharing one of your most valuable assets, your time with us today. We’re so grateful that you did and I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the “Wellness Mama Podcast.”

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.

Thanks to Our Sponsors

This podcast is brought to you by Radiant Life Catalog. Radiant Life is a woman-owned, family-run online health and wellness company specializing in food-based supplements, nutrient dense foods, eco-friendly housewares and water filtration and purification. After spending over 20 years in the health industry, Radiant Life realized that one of the overlooked components of wellbeing is access to clean, healthy and hydrating water. Now , they have a range of filters that fix this for every type of house and budget from counter top to under counter and even whole house like the one we have. Their systems are crafted with a health and wellness focus. They improve the taste and smell of water but, more importantly, they remove a wide range of potentially harmful contaminants. They also have and in-house water expert is available all the time to guide you through the system selection process and answer all of your questions via phone or email. Their systems are also designed and built in the USA and really high quality. Go to radiantlife.com/wellnessmama and get $200 off a Whole House or 14-Stage Water System with the code WMPODCAST.

This podcast is sponsored by The Ready State. If you’re at all like me, you might have perpetual stiffness and pain in your neck and shoulders from years of working, carrying kids and all of the demands of parenting. Or sore hips from too much sitting or multiple pregnancies. I found a great way to relieve my aches and pains and improve my fitness and flexibility. It’s from someone I highly respect… Dr. Kelly Starrett at The Ready State. If you don’t know Kelly, he’s a Mobility and movement coach for Olympic gold medalists, world champions, and pro athletes. He’s the Author of two New York Times bestselling books, including “Becoming a Supple Leopard”, which has sold over half a million copies. He has over 150,000 hours of hands-on experience training athletes at the highest levels. A Doctor of Physical Therapy who helps top companies, military organizations, and universities improve the wellness and resilience of their team members. He created a program called Virtual Mobility Coach. This program is easy to do from home each day, making it ideal for me, and for most moms. And I can do with my kids. Every day, Virtual Mobility Coach gives you fresh, guided video exercises. They show you proven techniques to take care of your body, relieve pain, and improve flexibility. And you can customize your videos in three ways. If you’re in pain, you can pull up a picture of the human body and click on what hurts. And from there, Virtual Mobility Coach will give you a customized pain prescription to help you find relief. Second, you can find a library of soothing recovery routines in the daily maintenance section. They’re a great way to wind-down and practice self-care from the comfort of your home. And third, for athletes, Virtual Mobility Coach also has an entire section of pre- and post-exercise routines for more than four dozen sports and activities. They help you warm-up before your workout so you can perform your best with a lower risk of injury. Right now, you can try Virtual Mobility Coach totally risk-free for two weeks without paying a penny. And after that, you can get 50% off your first three months. Just go to thereadystate.com/wellnessmama and use code WELLNESSMAMA50 at checkout. That’s half-off your first three months when you sign up for a monthly plan. And you’ll get personalized techniques to relieve nagging pain and improve your fitness and flexibility.

]]>
clean no 00:51:31 Katie Wells
319: Everything You Need to Know About the Keto Diet With Dr. Dominic D’Agostinohttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/dominic-dagostino/ Thu, 05 Mar 2020 11:00:05 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=423772

The keto diet has been sweeping the health world for quite a while now, but I still get so many questions about whether this high fat, low carb diet approach is really healthy for women. Lucky for us, I’m here now with one of the top experts in the world on the topic, whose research I have followed for a very long time.

Dr. Dominic D’Agostino is a professor in the Department of Molecular Pharmacology and Physiology at the University of South Florida and a research scientist at the Institute for Human and Machine Cognition, the IHMC. He conducts research on the human metabolism and applies this science to helping neurological disorders, cancer, and military applications.

He also walks the walk when it comes to health! He broke the world record for the most weight squatted in a 24-hour period and has also deadlifted 500 pounds on day seven of a fast. So he is both academically and physically an incredible human being!

Episode Highlights With Dr. D’Agostino

  • What a real keto diet is
  • Things to avoid on a keto diet and how to know if you’re doing it the wrong way
  • The technical definition of ketosis and why your diet might not actually be keto
  • What exogenous ketones are and how to use them correctly
  • Important things to know about keto diet with APOE4 genes
  • The range you want to stay in to be in ketosis
  • Supplements to know about in ketosis (and what to avoid)
  • How to train your body to be more fat adapted
  • What women need to know about a keto diet (and when to avoid it)
  • And more!

Resources We Mention

More From Wellness Mama

Have you tried the keto diet? How did you feel? Please drop a comment below or leave a review on iTunes to let us know. We value knowing what you think and this helps other moms find the podcast as well.

Read Transcript

Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.

This episode is brought to you by Beekeepers Naturals – superfood products from the hive that help support your family’s health. Right now, their Propolis has been a lifesaver with all of the sniffles and coughs going around where we live. Propolis is a resinous mixture that bees make in the hive and contains over 300 compounds including polyphenols and compounds that are antibacterial and a compound called pinocembrin that acts as an antifungal. Some studies have shown that propolis can speed wound healing. It’s natural antibacterial and antifungal properties also make it great for fighting the sniffles. At first sign of any sniffles, sore throat or coughing, I spray propolis in the throat and it almost always helps us bounce back quickly. I also use propolis before flying to avoid picking up anything on the plane. You can save 15% on propolis and all beekeepers naturals products at beekeepersnaturals.com/wellnessmama with the code wellnessmama

This podcast is brought to you by Four Sigmatic – my source for superfood mushrooms. Four Sigmatic makes delicious mushroom infused coffees, teas and elixirs that I use daily. From their lower caffeine coffee and coffee packets infused with lions mane that I drink in the morning, to chaga and cordyceps for focus while I work and Reishi to wind down at night… these products are a regular part of my routine. Here’s a tip… I’ve found that for deep sleep, a packet of reishi with a splash of macadamia milk and a tiny sprinkle of salt and a drop of stevia helps me get more deep sleep and I’ve seen this consistently and measurably in my sleep tracking. As a listener of this podcast, you can save 15% by going to foursigmatic.com/wellnessmama and using the code “wellnessmama”

Hello, and welcome to “The Wellness Mama Podcast.” I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com, and this episode is everything you need to know about the ketogenic diet and everything that goes with it, including if it is safe for women or not, its practical applications, how to know if you’re doing it correctly, and what the emerging research says about it. I am here with one of the top experts in the world, whose research I have followed for a very long time, and it was an honor to talk to him.

Dr. Dominic D’Agostino is a professor in the Department of Molecular Pharmacology and Physiology at the University of South Florida, and a research scientist at the Institute for Human and Machine Cognition, the IHMC. His laboratory develops and tests metabolic-based strategies for neurological disorders, cancer, and for enhancing safety and resilience of military personnel in extreme environments. He was both a researcher and a participant in NASA’s NEEMO project, and his research is supported by the Office of Naval Research, the Department of Defense, private organizations and foundations, and many of us in the health community who value what he does.

And I’m gonna talk about it in a little bit in the episode, but he also very much walks the walk when it comes to health. In fact, he broke the world record for the most weight squatted in a 24-hour period, and he has also deadlifted 500 pounds on day seven of a fast. So he is both academically and physically an incredible human being, and it is an honor to join him today. So, without further ado, let’s jump in with Dr. D’Agostino.

Katie: Dom, I’m so excited to chat with you. If what I read is true, you broke the world record for the most weight squatted in a 24-hour period and who have lifted 500 pounds after fasting for a week. Which is astounding to me. And I have fasted for that many days but I have not ever tried to work out on the last day. And you obviously walk the walk when it comes to health. You are well known for your research in the ketogenic diet and I want to go deep on the practical and scientific applications of that today. So to start broad and then narrow down, what are some of the emerging applications of the ketogenic diet that you’re finding in your research?

Dr. Dominic: Yeah, so the ketogenic diet started as a medical therapy for epilepsy 100 years ago, and not a lot of people know that. But over the last decade, the use of dietary ketosis has been applied to a wide range of disorders and that includes a number of neurological disorders, metabolic disorders, and even psychological disorders too. In our lab, we study a broad range of things. I would say half of what we do is cancer research, and we do that at the Moffitt Cancer Institute. It’s a very large cancer treatment center near the University of South Florida. It’s its own separate entity. But I would say that in our lab, that’s probably one of the biggest emerging applications and probably more controversial applications of nutritional ketosis is this idea of using food as medicine to treat something as serious and as complex as cancer.

And when I got into this field, there was maybe two clinical trials on clinicaltrials.gov, registered clinical trials, and now there is about 38 or 39 clinical trials I think the last I checked using the ketogenic diet as a therapy for cancer treatment in most cases as an adjuvant to further enhance or augment different forms of therapy. And in some cases when the standard of care has failed, the ketogenic diet is used. So we’ve studied in the past Alzheimer’s disease and different animal models of Alzheimer’s disease and the biggest project we actually have going on in the lab is developing a ketogenic strategy for dietary ketosis or supplemental ketosis to delay oxygen toxicity seizures which limits the Navy SEAL operations because they use a closed-circuit re-breathing device in their covert operations.

So what we do is with the various technologies we have in the lab, we can simulate what a Navy SEAL will experience under certain conditions. And then we test everything from the perspective of a cell to tissues, we’ve used various animal models, and we have human clinical trials at Duke University right now where we dive subjects inside of conditions and push them to the edge of the seizure in and out of ketosis. So that’s kinda like the main projects we have going. We have like a lot of little pet projects on the side, like targeting glucose control, which has implications for Type 2 diabetes, which I think is a very big emerging application of dietary ketosis.

Katie: That’s so fascinating. And before we go further, I’d love to have you define what is the ketogenic diet as there’s thousands of different definitions floating around, and recipes. So what definition are we using for this podcast?

Dr. Dominic: Yeah. I think that’s part of the problem too is that nutritional ketosis is a term used by people marketing different books to food supplements to bars, which are essentially candy bars. The ketogenic diet is the only diet to my knowledge that’s defined specifically by an elevation of a biomarker that we can actually measure with commercially available technology. And you can buy a blood ketone meter at a CVS or Walgreens or you can go on Amazon and buy one. You can get it at Walmart. These devices will typically measure blood glucose and also measure the ketone body beta-hydroxybutyrate. So if you decide to do a ketogenic diet or medical management of, you know, whether it be epilepsy, which was the original application, or weight loss, which is a really popular application in the ketogenic diet for Type 2 diabetes, which has actually over the last five years been very well documented.

You can go to a drug store or online and buy a blood ketone meter and implement, start the ketogenic diet. There are many different…there’s tons of resources online that did not exist at all when I first started studying this over a decade ago. And they tell you there’s recipes on how to, you know, develop, you know, put together meals for a ketogenic diet. So you can start the ketogenic diet and monitor your blood ketone levels and that can guide you on how to best plan your meals and construct your meals with the different types of foods and ratios of fat to protein to carbohydrates, and it’s really that macronutrient ratio that defines the ketogenic diet.

We know if we eat a certain ratio or fat to protein to carbohydrates, which the fat level has to be between 90% to 65% fat and protein levels typically range from between 10% to 25% or 30% with carbohydrates being restricted 10% or below of non-starch, non-sugar, fibrous carbohydrates that essentially have a very low glycemic index. When a diet is constructed in this way, it will produce some degree of ketosis depending on the individual and depending on how those ratios are calculated.

Katie: That makes sense. So some versions of the ketogenic diet can be considered unhealthy. Are there things you can watch out for or guard against when trying a keto diet?

Dr. Dominic: Yeah, for sure. There’s a lot of, you know, ready-made ketogenic meals on the market. There’s a lot of recipes out there that claim to be ketogenic and they may be low in carbohydrates but they deviate from what I would call a clinical ketogenic diet. And to get the full benefits of dietary ketosis, an individual typically has to elevate their blood ketone levels within a range that’s characteristic of being in dietary ketosis. And there’s a little bit of confusion and I think people are using the term ketogenic diet and they’re really just marketing a low carbohydrate diet, which actually has a lot of benefits in regards to controlling your blood glucose, perhaps weight loss, it has an appetite suppressing effect.

Many people believe that a high protein diet is a ketogenic diet and that’s really not the case because if you eat too much protein, the protein can convert to glucose and it can also stimulate the hormone insulin. And this can push you out of the state of ketosis or basically prevent you from making ketone bodies, which we know are beneficial for our brain and our heart and a number of other organs. And it’s that level of ketones, which is indicative of the suppressing of the hormone insulin. And once you stabilize and lower the hormone insulin, that puts your body into a fat-burning mode and it’s the excess burning of fat that actually contributes to elevated ketones.

So your ketones are actually like, sort of, a surrogate marker that can predict how much body fat you’re burning. And I think, from a general perspective, a lot of people are interested in the ketogenic diet for weight loss. And so I think dietary ketosis monitoring that is a very effective tool to basically inform the person how efficiently they are burning fat for energy and their own body fat. As they restrict overall calories, they’ll be liberating, you know, their own body fat but also it’s a combination of the dietary fat because you’re eating more fat too. So that is making ketones, but when you restrict total calories, which it’s easier to do on a ketogenic diet and that’s a big advantage of it because of the appetite suppressing effect, then you’re really tapping into your own fat stores too.

Katie: That makes sense. Is there an ideal range for ketones in something like weightl oss and is that different from, for instance, in the ketone levels in something like fighting cancer?

Dr. Dominic: Yeah, that’s a good question. And we don’t know really all the answers but, generally speaking, if your blood ketones are between…from feedback that I get, anywhere between 0.8…if you’re above 0.5 millimolar, and that’s little m big M, it’s also represented as mMol over liter, millimole per liter, and that’s the units that you’re measuring typically in these devices. If you’re above 0.5, you’re clinically in a state of ketosis and it would be difficult, very difficult to achieve that eating a standard diet, if not impossible, you typically have to fast, you know, about 18 to 24 hours to get your ketones into that level. So if you can formulate a diet where you’re in a state of ketosis 0.5 to typically 3 or 4 millimolar max, my belief is that that’s kinda like the optimal level.

For me, if I stay between 1 and 2 millimolar ketones, I feel like I have the most energy, the most mental clarity, my inflammation is lowest and if my ketones get a little bit higher, I typically have to do things that I have to have follow a diet that’s more restricted in carbohydrates. And I feel better having a little bit of carbohydrates in my diet from things like a little bit of berries, vegetables and, you know, have a little bit of dark chocolate every day. So you can have these things on the ketogenic diet. The more carbohydrates you put in, it can knock you out but the more you experiment with the diet, the more you begin to realize like how much you can add in. And I think there are a lot of benefits to some of these, you know, plant-derived foods and I like to incorporate some of them into the diet.

And some ketogenetic diets eliminate that completely. And I know the carnivore diet has been a big thing and a lot of people are advocates of that and I’m not fully convinced that that diet really is superior to a well-formulated ketogenic diet which would have vegetables. A lot of people with autoimmune disorders, you know, whether it be skin disorders or things like Hashimoto’s disease or other things have emailed me and basically said that a ketogenic diet that’s devoid of plants, that’s more of a keto carnivore diet has been the only thing that has worked to cure their autoimmune disorders. So I think people need to look into this and it’s just not studied enough.

There’s a group in Hungary called Paleomedicina and they have treated like thousands of patients with autoimmune disorders and everything from epilepsy to cancer with a paleolithic ketogenic diet and we’ve recently visited Hungary and saw some of the patient records. And I have to admit that, you know, a paleolithic ketogenic diet, which is basically just all animal products and no vegetables at all, seems to be very effective for certain autoimmune disorders. But from my perspective, I’m still not completely sold on it for like the person who just wants to implement a ketogenic diet as a lifestyle. I think incorporating a more well-formulated balanced ketogenic diet that has vegetables and fruits into it would be ideal. At least I feel it is for me.

Katie: What does that look like? Based on your experience your research, what would you consider the best version of keto diet and can it be done with low saturated fat? I ask because I have the APOE4 gene, and so I’m cautious with consuming saturated fat. And I tend to lean towards mono-unsaturated fat. So can you do ketosis without the saturated fat?

Dr. Dominic: Yeah, that’s a really good question and one I get quite often. Yeah, you can definitely do a ketogenic diet that’s low in saturated fat. So what you want to do in that case is really get more monounsaturated fat. And one way to do that is to probably limit dairy because the biggest contributor to saturated fat in a ketogenic diet is dairy. The early ketogenic diets developed by the Mayo Clinic and Johns Hopkins were almost a dairy-based ketogenic diet because it made it palatable for kids. They were able to get in the calories required for growth. But a ketogenic diet that’s lower in saturated fat would include things like eggs. The fat in eggs is mostly oleic acid so that’s more of monounsaturated fat. So you have, you know, eggs and fish and nuts and nut butters, olive oil, of course.

And then you want to have…you know, if you have APOE4, then you’re right, saturated fat is something you may be concerned about. It does contribute to factors that could negatively influence, you know, your outcomes. But the science is kind of unclear. So shifting from more of a dairy-based ketogenic diet to fish, eggs, and I’m kind of of the opinion that steak is also okay although it does have saturated fat, but you know, steak that’s from grass-fed animals. Pork and poultry would probably be okay too. But from my perspective, and I did follow a dairy-based ketogenic diet when I started this like 12 years ago and some of my markers got really high different fractions of LDL and I got a little bit concerned and I did kind of minimize the dairy to a certain level. I still have it in and I do have dairy every day, but I significantly decreased it and fill the gap, the core gap from fat mostly derived from monounsaturated fats and that made a big difference.

So typically like today, for example, I don’t always do this but I skipped breakfast and had my first meal around noon, which was salmon, and I tested various products people send me were cookies that were made from almond flour and they were lightly sweetened, and that was like my first meal. And that’s kind of all I had eaten today. And then tonight we’re having grass-fed beef by a company called ButcherBox that only sells like grass-fed beef. It’s a service that we subscribe to. They have an excellent selection of meats. And typically a salad and, you know, cauliflower mash or broccoli or something like that. We usually have some kind of beef, fish, and vegetable for dinner and pretty much always have a salad with little amounts of fat.

Katie: Got it. Thre is a lot of opinion on this as well, but what about the need for an occasional carb refeed or if people should eat carbs once in a while to keep the body from adapting to not having carbs, is that something you’d do and what does the research say?

Dr. Dominic: Yeah, I think people really need to experiment with what diet works best. And you know, I’m an advocate of the ketogenic diet or nutritional ketosis, that could also mean supplemental ketosis, for a wide range of things. And if, you know, for cultural reasons and people have different metabolisms in different body types, where like everybody’s like an individual metabolic entity and various food choices associated with the ketogenic diet, they might not be able to tolerate. And I’ve met people who just cannot tolerate the fat content associated with the ketogenic diet. But for me personally, I tend to feel best and I do my best work, whether that be writing or just, you know, cognitive tasks, and even physically, I tend to feel better in some degree of ketosis and not…I don’t follow the level of a medical ketogenic diet, which is like anywhere between like 80% to 90% fat, but I’m typically somewhere around 60% fat.

And just as an example, yesterday I probably had a little more carbohydrates than normal. We have fruit trees on our property so I had a grapefruit at night and I had some blueberries and a pretty big salad and some stir fry vegetables too and like one or two pieces of dark chocolate. So my carbohydrate for the day yesterday was probably about 100 grams of carbs and probably about a third of that was fiber and I was still in a state of mild ketosis because I was fairly active like throughout the day. And now, that may not be the case for everybody. I know some kids that follow the ketogenic diet for epilepsy or other things, the amount of carbohydrate they could have is maybe like one strawberry throughout the entire day. Strawberries are very high in fiber, like, you know, a minimal glycemic response.

But I’m in contact with many different parents, I’ve seen, you know, hundreds if not thousands of dietary plans and I’ve seen the blood levels of different people from kids to adults and I have to say that there’s a lot of variability. And I’ve also conversed with some elite-level Olympic athletes who follow nutritional ketosis and they can stay in a state of ketosis eating about 200 to 250 grams of carbohydrates a day, but they’re also exercising like four to six hours a day and they’re probably at a caloric deficit too. So you have a lot of extremes in this and it really comes down to food preferences.

So figure out what kind of food you like and incorporate more of those foods and that could be…you know, typically most people like fish and chicken and beef and pork things like that, and eggs. And if you are baking, you can use different types of flours that are on the market now. Some of them are nut flours and you can make muffins and cakes, and we make pancakes in our house occasionally. So you can have the comfort foods too. And there are a lot of entrepreneurs scrambling to really enter this space and they’re developing everything from low-carb ketogenic brownies to cookies, to hamburger buns, to barbecue sauce. I mean, there’s so many different products.

We hosted the Metabolic Health Summit just like a few weeks ago and the amount of stakeholders in this space is growing like exponentially, and that’s in academia to clinical medicine, to industry, to media, to just general public. So this space is growing quite rapidly and a lot of these companies are developing products that are really serving the community that I’m networked in. And that includes the epilepsy community, which is like the diet it has a very good track record for, and a number of these other emerging applications, Type 2 diabetes being one of them.

And there’s a lot of different…you know, not one ketogenic diet. It’s not a one size fits all so when you read a study about a ketogenic diet produced a positive effect or a negative effect or no effect, most importantly, the most important thing is to figure out what kind of ketogenic diet this study used. I mean, there’s an infinite amount of ketogenic diets. The early ketogenic diets were heavily based on hydrogenated fats, believe it or not, or even Crisco. And we’ve just, we know a lot more about nutrition now and I believe there’s ways to formulate a ketogenic diet that could be healthy for everybody but it may not be for everybody depending on your dietary preferences, I would say.

Katie: So what about exogenous zones? This is something I actually have not personally experimented with but I actually have some on their way to me now and I am really curious about and I know you’ve done some research on. So what is the role of exogenous zones in a keto diet and what do we need to know about using it?

Dr. Dominic: Yeah, that’s maybe what I’m known for because when I first started studying the ketogenic diet, my goal was to use the ketogenic diet for oxygen toxicity seizures, which are sort of a military problem. The program officer in the military at the time did not like the idea of putting someone on a high-fat ketogenic diet. It was too restrictive and they knew people just wouldn’t do it. So they asked me to develop kind of a ketogenic diet in a pill. So many years ago, you know, I started developing different strategies and one of the strategies would be a ketone ester and the development of ketone mineral salts, which is basically taking a ketone body that your body makes naturally, like a bioidentical molecule, and then combining that with an electrolyte like sodium, potassium, or magnesium.

And then you can actually make these things in a laboratory and develop a powder out of it and then you can consume this orally in a shake or a drink and it can elevate your ketone levels. Beta-hydroxybutyrate is what we measure with a meter. And then that is clinically the state of nutritional or what we call therapeutic ketosis. So it’s elevating an energy molecule in the blood that kind of has a superior energetic value. If your body can make more ATP, which is the energy currency that our cells use, it can make the ATP more efficiently with ketones. And we also know that these ketone bodies have hormone-like effects and their sigma [SP] molecules that can influence certain pathways, for example, inflammation. They can suppress the levels of inflammation, kind of, in the body.

So there are many different types of exogenous ketones on the market. We test them but, you know, we do not sell them. I think some people out there market things like my supplement. So just for the record, I do not have any ketone supplements myself. We do develop various patents and certain companies have gotten those patents. I do like to test the ketone products that are on the market if I know they’re safe and from a reputable company. And then some of those products I’ve put on the website, ketonutrition.org, just to direct people to reputable companies that are making ketone supplement products that at least have a very good certificate of analysis that are clean products that will actually elevate your ketone levels more or less.

So the benefits of these supplements are that when you consume them, they can give your body energy and I view them as just a ketogenic food. They’re calorie-containing food supplements that when you consume them with a ketogenic diet, they can further elevate your ketones and probably further augment the therapeutic efficacy of the ketogenic diet. Now, there are some situations where someone is unwilling or unable to follow a ketogenic diet. For example, some of the disorders that we study in the lab, you know, kids with different disorders like Angelman syndrome or autism or Kabuki syndrome. That’s another thing.

And I don’t have to get into explaining, you know, these disorders but the kids who have some of these disorders, it’s difficult for them to follow certain types of diets. So a ketone supplement that is formulated, and the flavoring agents can make it to taste good, can offer a lot of benefit to kids with these disorders. And you want to target disorders where the ketogenic diet has already shown to be efficacious, where there’s clinical trials and published studies to share, for example, that a ketogenic diet can treat glucose transporter deficiency syndrome, which is something that we study.

So, many kids, they find it hard to follow that diet. So a supplement which elevates ketones, which is therapeutic molecule that can help individuals who have glucose transporter deficiency, that supplement really maybe almost, I’m not going to say the magic bullet, but it can be the therapeutic thing that can help to manage that particular metabolic disorder. And that’s where we really try to direct a lot of our energy and time and effort into not only working on military applications of these ketone supplements but using that science to really develop things that can be used in the clinical field too. And we have a study, there’s an ongoing study at Vanderbilt University that uses ketone supplementation for Angelman syndrome, which is a rare genetic disorder that just happens to be responsive to the ketogenic diet. So there’s an ongoing study right now in kids with Angelman syndrome that’s using ketones supplements.

Katie: That’s fascinating. And speaking of electrolytes, is that something that we need to be aware of and supplement with on keto diet long term, I know there are some sources say you need more electrolytes if you eat low carb and are keto and are there other supplements that we should know about as well?

Dr. Dominic: Yeah, that’s a good point because when you’re in a state of nutritional ketosis just by adjusting the macronutrient ratios, we know that you’re suppressing the hormone insulin. And when you do that, you tend to excrete more water and more electrolytes with that, including sodium and maybe potassium and magnesium, so you tend to maybe get a little bit dehydrated in the beginning. And at the same time, a lot of people go through what they call the keto flu. And the keto flu is feeling a little bit of a headache, you might be a little bit lethargic, and you just don’t feel great. That could be dehydration and what we call hyponatremia, which is low sodium. So it’s actually really important to stay well hydrated and actually make sure you’re getting enough sodium, which there’s initial sodium loss, especially the first two or three weeks.

You don’t necessarily have to, you know, go buy electrolyte supplements. They may help some people but what I tell people is to have like a good quality bone broth or make your own bone broth. You might want to literally salt your food, whether that be a salad or beef that you’re cooking, and that should be more than enough. The diet tends to suppress your appetite and also your thirst so you want to make sure that even if you’re not thirsty that you’re consuming enough water, especially during the initial two to three weeks of the diet because you’re probably gonna be a little bit dehydrated and you might get some cramps and feel a little bit lethargic. So it’s extra important to get, you know, water and electrolytes during that first few weeks.

Katie: Gotcha.

This episode is brought to you by Beekeepers Naturals – superfood products from the hive that help support your family’s health. Right now, their Propolis has been a lifesaver with all of the sniffles and coughs going around where we live. Propolis is a resinous mixture that bees make in the hive and contains over 300 compounds including polyphenols and compounds that are antibacterial and a compound called pinocembrin that acts as an antifungal. Some studies have shown that propolis can speed wound healing. It’s natural antibacterial and antifungal properties also make it great for fighting the sniffles. At first sign of any sniffles, sore throat or coughing, I spray propolis in the throat and it almost always helps us bounce back quickly. I also use propolis before flying to avoid picking up anything on the plane. You can save 15% on propolis and all beekeepers naturals products at beekeepersnaturals.com/wellnessmama with the code wellnessmama

This podcast is brought to you by Four Sigmatic – my source for superfood mushrooms. Four Sigmatic makes delicious mushroom infused coffees, teas and elixirs that I use daily. From their lower caffeine coffee and coffee packets infused with lions mane that I drink in the morning, to chaga and cordyceps for focus while I work and Reishi to wind down at night… these products are a regular part of my routine. Here’s a tip… I’ve found that for deep sleep, a packet of reishi with a splash of macadamia milk and a tiny sprinkle of salt and a drop of stevia helps me get more deep sleep and I’ve seen this consistently and measurably in my sleep tracking. As a listener of this podcast, you can save 15% by going to foursigmatic.com/wellnessmama and using the code “wellnessmama”

Katie: And now for a somewhat controversial question, there are a lot of opinions about whether or not women should do a keto diet at all and if we can modify it in certain ways based on our hormones. I know personally I feel like I can do it fine especially if I cycle it and I test a lot of different markers and I handle it well, but I also handle fasting really well and some women don’t. There’s a very personalized aspect to this. So based on your research and experience, do you think that the keto diet is also effective and/or safe for women?

Dr. Dominic: Yeah, I can’t make that recommendation. I’ll give you my opinion. But so you may have trained your metabolism to be…and I think what I’ve observed is that there are women who simply initially they cannot fast at all. They get lightheaded and I mean, we’ve had individuals like almost faint in the lab, if not, you know, faint and just like can’t stand up after fasting. Women, their physiology is very responsive to changes and they could have orthostatic hypotension. They could have, you know, changes in just their brain energy levels. The female physiology, in my opinion, is that it’s much more reactive to low levels of glucose and insulin. So if your glucose gets low, that may have sort of a greater exaggerated response in a female compared to a male.

Males maybe tolerate fasting a little bit better. I don’t know if it’s a male thing to just kind of power through it but I definitely feel that there are physiological differences between females and males that make it harder for females to become robustly fat adapted. And one way to train your metabolism to be more fat adapted or keto adapted is to do things like intermittent fasting and then transition more gradually to eating low carbs and over time I feel like you could train your metabolism. But many women just tend to feel better adding some form of carbohydrates to the diet and I would say I’m of the opinion that a lower-carb diet would just be much healthier long term than a high carb diet and women who just cannot do the ketogenic diet for any reason I would advocate for them to at least do a lower carb diet or lower glycemic index diet and then capping carbs at like, you know, a one gram per pound, you know, or less if they really want to get metabolic benefits.

But I think people…I’m a big believer in self-experimentation. So I think people need to try the diet and see if it’s for them, and to honestly try a ketogenic diet, you have to stick with it for really six to eight weeks. A lot of people don’t want to hear that but you really have to honestly stick with it for six to eight weeks and measure your ketones to validate that you’re actually in a state of nutritional ketosis because once that blood ketone level gets elevated, that’s giving your brain an alternative form of energy and that’s where you really start to…the lights kind of come off and you start to feel a lot of the benefits of the ketogenic diet.

And for me, I went through, sort of, a learning curve to this and it probably wasn’t until the third month where I was like really myself totally, because I started with the Johns Hopkins protocol of like more of a dairy-based ketogenic diet and then I started transitioning off of that and was just doing more like whole foods and less dairy and I just had to find not only the macronutrient ratios but the types of foods that were working best for me. And also, it was kinda hard to get the calories. My metabolism was pretty fast, so it was kinda hard for me to get all the calories that I needed and that initial calorie deficit caused me to lose weight over time, especially the first…I think I lost about 10 pounds the first…without trying. I was actually trying not to lose weight. It was almost impossible not to lose weight.

So that side effect may be a benefit to a lot of people. They like the idea that they can eat and feel fully satiated and still continue to lose weight. And I don’t know of any other diet that can really allow you to do that unless you’re doing like a raw vegan diet, and that’s really hard to do, but a ketogenic diet I think has greater weight loss benefits than a raw vegan diet and it’s actually more practical from my perspective.

Katie: That brings up another point that I’m just personally interested in right now. Well, obviously the keto diet assists in weight loss and I have lost a significant amount of weight in the last year, not from only low carb, I’ve used a variety of methods and eat more food that I previous had. From your own experience, do you have any research or tips on how to gain muscle while still either losing fat or maintain fat loss? This is a balance a lot of people have trouble finding the sweet spot for.

Dr. Dominic: Yeah. So you are hitting on all great questions. So that’s a topic of debate, especially on social media in the fitness forums. Like, can you gain muscle on a ketogenic diet? There’s absolutely…I mean, we published a paper with our Italian colleagues back in 2012, I believe, and it was elite-level gymnasts that used a ketogenic diet and they were able to maintain their strength and they had more remarkable body composition alterations over time. So basically, you know, at the end of the study, they preserved their muscle and they lost more body fat. They did not gain any more muscle than the gymnasts that were following their standard dietary protocol, but so they had a very intense training routine and the amount of muscle that they gained was the same, actually they just maintained. So being able to maintain your muscle while you’re losing body weight and losing fat, like that’s actually a gain because, you know, if you lose weight but still have the same amount of lean body mass, that’s actually pretty significant.

So we established that early on and what we’ve learned over the years is that protein is actually really important. So the standard ketogenic diet requires, you know, a level of protein that’s restricted and in athletes, that’s probably not the best thing to do. So the data, as I understand it right now, from all the data that’s available, suggests that, you know, from a clinical ketogenic diet perspective, they tell you to have one gram per kilogram of body weight and you don’t need more than that. But for an athlete, you definitely need more than that, not only to maintain weight but if your goal is to gain muscle and strength, I would say 1.5 grams per kilogram at least, especially if you have a fast metabolism.

So I’m kind of heavy. I’m 100 kilograms, so for me, that’s 150 grams protein per day. And if someone, a clinical practitioner of the ketogenic diet, was to look at my diet and see me getting 150 grams of protein a day, well they would say, no, you’re nowhere near a ketogenic diet. But I am doing a ketogenic diet because my ketones would be elevated. So I think if someone’s a bit heavier and has more muscle and body mass, they can get away with more protein and they’re actually gonna need more protein to be able to retain that muscle and their need to increase protein higher than what would be a normal ketogenic diet to gain muscle over time.

So proteins are very, very important, obviously, for gaining muscle and the amount of protein you need. If your goal is strength and performance, if you’re an athlete, the amount of protein you need would probably be into that 30% of your diet range as opposed to a clinical ketogenic diet, which is like 10% to 15%. Like you literally need about double the amount of protein. And this gets into, you know, what is a hot topic now even in clinical medicine is the modified ketogenic diet. And that was actually advanced by Dr. Eric Kossoff at Johns Hopkins and the modified ketogenic diet, also called the modified Atkins diet, but the modified ketogenic diet is actually used for adults with epilepsy. And that’s like double the amount of protein than the diet that’s used for kids. And like I said, it’s much higher in protein, about 20% to 30% protein, relative to the pediatric epilepsy diet, which is like 12% to 15% protein.

Katie: Okay. That’s good. And I think that raises another question is what about fasting? I mentioned this earlier in the episode, and again, of course, with the caveat that some women will not handle this well. I feel like I do. I’m actually on day three of a water fast right now and my ketones are about 3.5 and I also pole vaulted this morning. But I’m curious, I know that you intermittent fast and you’ve also done longer fasts from what I’ve read. So what is your take on fasting for overall health and also for things like cancer prevention and all the other applications?

Dr. Dominic: Yeah. I’m a fan of fasting for many years. When I was really into weightlifting and strength training, I was eating like six meals a day and I would get anxiety if I went more than like three or four hours without a meal. So thinking that my body needs energy for growth and repair and that I would be taking a step backwards if I didn’t have that meal. But over the years, I’ve learned that once your body is adapted to burning fat and ketones for fuel that the ketones are very protein sparing and that has resulted in the whole area of science that we’re really focused on now with cancer cachexia, so muscle-sparing effects of ketones.

So my Ph.D. student that just graduated did a whole Ph.D. dissertation studying the anti-catabolic effects of ketones. So what that means is that, you know, if you are following a low-carb diet or doing a ketogenic diet and you do periodically fast, whether you do intermittent fasting or short-term fast or even long-term fast like a week or more, your body is more metabolically tuned to spare that muscle protein. And I think there’s clinical evidence to support this. And also, well, we have some work to be published, once you fast and once you do it a few times, you can actually enter the state of ketosis faster. So if you do fasting or you did the ketogenic diet and get off of the ketogenic diet, do like a standard diet and go back to fasting or go back to a ketogenic diet again, your body will make ketones much faster.

It’s almost like you know when you work out, you have muscle memory and you work up to like a certain level of bench press, you take time off…it may take you two or three years to get up to 200-pound bench press, but if you take a couple of months off, you’re going to lose a lot of that strength but if you start back up again, instead of two years, you can get back up to that level in like two months. Your metabolism is the same way. If you train your metabolism to burn fat and make ketones and burn ketones and you do it over time, the more you do it, the easier it gets and the more benefits you derive from it but also the faster your body jumps back into that fat-burning mode when you start fasting again or when you do a ketogenic diet. So that has pretty important practical implications.

I’m a fan of fasting. In the beginning, I was not. I had to be sold on it. And it was actually the scientific literature, reading paper after paper of the benefits of periodic calorie restriction, intermittent fasting, and ketones, which got me thinking as an academic scientist, you know, I’m doing this in the lab and I’m seeing the benefits. We solve very real benefits in the lab, even survival from things like metastatic cancer that I had to do this myself and I had to experience it myself and I’m kind of a self-experimenter. So over the years, I’ve done up to a seven-day fast, you know, and periodically, I like to do it when I’m traveling, and my wife and I travel together most of the time, but if I’m traveling alone and I know she’s not with me and having to eat because she doesn’t really do a lot of the crazy things I do. If I’m traveling alone, I like to just fast occasionally and traveling, that can be kind of convenient.

So I personally do it, I’ve experienced benefits from it that I’ve documented, and I’ve been in touch with many other people who do this. And I think it really does have real benefits. I think some people take it a little too far, but if you were to do a short-term fast for a couple of days, you know, every few months, I think that’ll really translate to real-world benefits.

Katie: As we get close to the end, I’d actually love to do a round two with you one day, I know that you’re very much in the research and a lot of people listening are women, but I’d love if we could talk about some practical takeaways that we can all learn from your research. So moms, parents, those of us who may not be lifting heavy weights, what are some of the things you’re seeing in the data right now that we can all learn from and adopt and benefit from doing?

Dr. Dominic: Yeah. Well, for women specifically, I think it’s really important for women when they start a ketogenic diet or they do intermittent fasting, a lot of times this scenario presents that women will start a new exercise routine so they’ll bump up their exercise, they will calorie restrict, and they’ll start the ketogenic diet all at one time. And so you have a lot of variables contributing to things that could potentially slow down your metabolism and decrease YOUR thyroid level. So if you are experimenting with a ketogenic diet, I would say keep all variables sort of the same and do not restrict your calories. So just adjust the macronutrient ratios to ratios that would be ketogenic and keep your training the same and see how it affects your body and let your body adapt to that because there’s gonna be some initial stress, you know, associated with the adaptation. And once your body adapts to that, then start, you know, adjusting the calories or ramping up your training and things like that.

So I think that’s really an important practical takeaway because it seems like so many women who start a ketogenic diet or start intermittent fasting also start, you know, they do it for contest preparation or they do it for a sport or to just to lose weight for a particular event. They like shotgun a lot of things at once. So they do ketogenic intermittent fasting, calorie restriction, and overexercising, and simply just overexercising can, sort of, drop your metabolism if you’re over-trained. So I think it’s important to kind of ease into this, more important for women than for men. So kind of say that off the bat. And also the exogenous ketones that are on the market right now really can help people transition into that, help people get through that initial keto flu, as some people call it, or that transition from a carbohydrate-based metabolism to a ketone-based metabolism.

So for intermittent fasting, for example, they may want to break the fast not with a big protein meal, but maybe with a ketone supplement and they can extend the benefits of the fast I believe because your glucose level would still stay low and your ketones would be elevated. And then maybe, you know, two or three hours later, have a balanced meal or a ketogenic meal, you know, for example, they may want to do that. And that has made transitioning into these things a little bit easier for them. And there’s so many resources that are available too online whether it be recipe books, even snacks.

So I do have the opportunity to test a lot of foods that are emerging on the market. Some of them are not on the market yet, but I can tell you there are a lot of, you know, ketogenic chocolates that are coming out, ketogenic brownies, ketogenic cookies, and some of them are ketogenic and some of them are not. But the good thing is that there are legitimate forms of chocolate bars and brownies and cookies and things that are entering the market. I’m a big fan of just whole food nutrition, but some of these snacks are really…these comfort foods are important to have time to time because otherwise a lot of people may feel deprived. And I know it certainly helps for kids because some kids that follow the diet kind of feel ostracized if they’re not able to eat certain foods. So that has made the transition for kids who need to follow it for a medical reason, it has made it much easier for them.

So there’s a lot of practical things that we’ve sort of garnered over the years, knowledge that we’ve learned, and also companies are developing technologies that are making the diet easier to implement and also easier to monitor. For example, Readout Health has a device that’s a breath acetone meter that I used all day today to check my own ketone levels. So BioSense is the device and instead of having to prick your finger and draw blood, you just simply blow into this device and it tells you your breath ketone levels. And I could blow into it hundreds of times and not have go buy strips. You just buy the device and it’s super easy to use. You can download the app and it tells you, it tracks all your ketone levels, and breath acetone is a very good marker of fat oxidation. So the higher that breath ketone level, you know you’re really cranking out, you’re really burning lots of fat if that level gets higher.

So for people, you know, the everyday person, and I know many people are looking at, you know, this approach to burn fat, something like the breath acetone meter by BioSense, you know, without having to stick your finger and pay for all the strips would be a very useful practical device for people.

Katie: Got it. I’m curious, what are you excited for in the future of research? Are there trends that you’re seeing right now that you think are up and coming that we should be excited about in this area of research?

Dr. Dominc: Yeah, there’s a lot of activity in this area and it’s kind of surreal to see because when I started studying this, it was pediatric epilepsy was the only application and it was very marginalized even at the American Epilepsy Conference, but now there’s just so much buzz all over. And the things that I think are gonna be most important in the future are like big health issues. Obesity we know is kind of a big problem but Type 2 diabetes is like a huge problem, especially in the over-50 crowd and it’s a huge healthcare burden. So Virta Health is doing a lot of work and the Virta Health website really documents all the studies that they’ve published.

And you know, a lot of people when they hear that a ketogenic diet can treat Type 2 diabetes, of course, they become skeptical that you can get patients off insulin or their medication but they do and, you know, they’ve proven this. And that’s been really interesting to see that science evolve. And we’re in a completely opposite direction. We’re working with the military and our company, Ketone Technologies, we sponsor research, working with NASA on various projects. And at this point now, it’s really understanding extreme environments and ultimately, you know, trying to formulate metabolic-based strategies including nutritional strategies that can optimize performance and safety of the warfighter, but also the astronaut.

So my wife and I had the opportunity to participate in the NASA extreme environment mission operations where we’re on a crew with astronauts and we’re under the Atlantic and we actually do research for a week or more underneath the water. We were living in a hyperbaric environment and I had the opportunity to do the ketogenic diet for 10 days submerged underwater. And if it was…you know, we’re still analyzing the data from that a couple of years later and we’re preparing for more space analog missions, you know, with NASA this year.

So that’s a big part of what we’re doing now and a lot of time, effort, and money and resources are being kind of channeled into understanding these extreme environments and developing what we think could be a ketogenic strategy for optimizing performance in these environments.

Katie: Definitely. I follow your research really closely and I think it’s amazing just to see everything that is coming up right now, and I’ll definitely keep watching in the future. Like I said, I’d love to do a round two one day if you’re willing, but I’m really grateful for your time today and sharing your expertise.

Dr. Dominic: Absolutely, I will. Thanks for having me on, Katie. Appreciate it.

Katie: And as always, all of you for listening and sharing one of your most valuable assets, your time, with us today. We’re so grateful that you did and I hope that you will join me again for the next episode of the “Wellness Mama” podcast.

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.

Thanks to Our Sponsors

This podcast is brought to you by Four Sigmatic, my source for superfood mushrooms. They make delicious mushroom infused coffees, teas and elixirs that I use daily. From their lower caffeine coffee and coffee packets infused with lions mane that I drink in the morning, to chaga and cordyceps for focus while I work and Reishi to wind down at night… these products are a regular part of my routine. Here’s a tip… I’ve found that for deep sleep, a packet of reishi with a splash of macadamia milk and a tiny sprinkle of salt and a drop of stevia helps me get more deep sleep and I’ve seen this consistently and measurably in my sleep tracking. As a listener of this podcast, you can save 15% by going to foursigmatic.com/wellnessmama and using the code “wellnessmama”.

This episode is brought to you by Beekeepers Naturals – superfood products from the hive that help support your family’s health. Right now, Propolis has been a lifesaver with all of the sniffles and coughs going around where we live. Propolis is a resinous mixture that bees make in the hive and contains over 300 compounds including polyphenols and compounds that are antibacterial and a compound called pinocembrin that acts as an antifungal. Some studies have shown that propolis can speed wound healing. It’s natural antibacterial and antifungal properties also make it great for fighting the sniffles. At first sign of any sniffles, sore throat or coughing, I spray propolis in the throat and it almost always helps us bounce back quickly. I also use propolis before flying to avoid picking up anything on the plane. You can save 15% on propolis and all beekeepers naturals products at beekeepersnaturals.com/wellnessmama with the code “wellnessmama”.

]]>
clean no 01:01:44 Katie Wells
318: Fecal Microbiota Transfer (FMT) for Gut Health and Autismhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/fecal-microbiota-transfer/ Mon, 02 Mar 2020 11:00:44 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=423646

If you don’t know what FMT is, you’re not alone! This is a new and cutting-edge treatment, and one that might make you a little squeamish. Dr. Jason Klop, who has been working in the field of digestive health and microbiome restoration for many years, is here to talk about his extensive experience with FMT or Fecal Microbiota Transfer.

As the name suggests, fecal matter is actually transferred from one gut microbiome to another, offering the hope of introducing new and necessary good bacteria that couldn’t flourish there before.

This treatment has the potential to help with many gut-related conditions that aren’t easily helped any other way, including IBS, Crohns, and even autism.

Episode Highlights on FMT

  • The many conditions that stem from gut imbalance
  • How Fecal Microbiota Transfer works
  • The differences between FMT and taking a probiotic
  • My husband’s experience with C. difficile and SIBO
  • Side effects of antibiotics on gut microflora
  • Why a varied diet is so important to gut health
  • The benefits of fasting and why FMT procedures start with a fast
  • Why travel, time in nature, gardening, and exploration can all improve our gut microbiome
  • What studies show about the effect of Fecal Microbiota Transfer for autistic patients
  • Why doing FMT yourself at home is a bad idea (yes, it’s apparently a thing!)
  • And more!

Resources We Mention

More From Wellness Mama

Have you ever explored FMT? What else would you like Dr. Klop to answer? Please drop a comment below or leave a review on iTunes to let us know. We value knowing what you think and this helps other moms find the podcast as well.

Read Transcript

Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.

This podcast is sponsored by BLUblox. They create stylish and effective blue light blocking glasses to use for any time of day. Their BluLite lens is a clear lens designed for people who work under artificial light during the day, but they don’t want to look like they are wearing orange glasses. This one is designed to target the light that creates digital eyestrain, migraines, headaches and more. Their SummerGlo lens steps it up a notch for those who are exposed to intense artificial light all day and/or who suffer from migraines, anxiety, depression and SAD by blocking the light that contributes to those conditions. For better sleep, their Sleep lens is a complete blue and green light blocking full red lens that is ideal for use after dark. When the sun goes down, the red glasses go on. The studies show that by blocking blue light, you can increase your melatonin production and improve sleep. And lastly, if you can’t create a perfectly dark sleep environment, their REMedy blackout sleep mask is the next best thing, blocking 100% of light while staying comfortable and is easy to sleep in! Code wellnessmama gives 15% off at blublox.com/wellnessmama

This podcast is brought to you by Wellnesse, a new company I co-founded to tackle the toughest personal care products and create natural and safe products that work as well as conventional alternatives. I realized that even the most natural of my friends still used conventional toothpaste and shampoo because they weren’t willing to sacrifice quality. There are natural options and ones that work, but find products that do both was almost impossible. We tackled the toughest first, creating the first and only natural toothpaste that is fluoride and glycerin free, and that has calcium and hydroxyapatite to uniquely support the mineral balance in the mouth. It also contains neem oil and green tea to support a healthy bacterial balance in the mouth and fight bad breath. Be the first to try it and our innovative natural hair care at wellnesse.com

Katie: Hello, and welcome to the Wellness Mama Podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com. And this episode may go deep on a topic that you aren’t even familiar with or probably, most likely, have not tried. I am here with Dr. Jason Klop, who has been working in the field of digestive health and microbiome restoration for many years. During his time, he’s focused on conditions that were not responding to pharmaceutical interventions, such as irritable bowel syndrome, Crohn’s disease, ulcerative colitis, and small intestinal bacteria overgrowth, otherwise known as SIBO.

Dr. Klop has learned that the foundation for all health lies in the gut, and through his extensive experience has incorporated FMT with great results. And he has broadened his focus to offer this treatment to children with autism and autism related symptoms. Now, if you don’t know what FMT is, you are not alone. This is a new and somewhat cutting-edge treatment, and he’s going to explain what it is, how it works, and some of the amazing results that they are seeing. So, without further ado, let’s join Dr. Jason Klop.

Katie: Dr. Klop, welcome and thanks for being here.

Dr. Jason: Thank you so much. Thanks for having me on, and I’m excited to share.

Katie: I am excited to jump in with you because you are an expert on a topic that I don’t know a lot about, but I’m extremely fascinated by. And, I mentioned in the intro something called FMT, but I left it vague. And so, I think that’s exactly where we need to start. Can you explain what is FMT, and basically, what are some of the ways that you use it?

Dr. Jason: Perfect, yeah. Great question to get us started just so that all of the listeners are actually cued into what FMT really means. So, what it stands for is Fecal Microbiota Transplant. And, if you, kind of, break down the word, or the words, it sort of makes sense. But, in essence, what we have is, we’ve identified donors who are extremely healthy who meet very rigid criteria about what healthy actually looks like, both from a medical history standpoint as well as stool and blood screening. So, if they, you know, achieve all those things, we know that they have a very healthy gut microbiome, which is sort of the microbiota part. And then, we have somebody who is the patient or who is sick, and you asked me, “Well, who is that that we normally work with?”

Well, traditionally FMT is only used in those, you know, in the U.S. and Canada, for patients that have C. difficile, or at least that’s the only approved use. Outside of that, though, there’s a lot of really compelling evidence for other conditions like Crohn’s, ulcerative colitis, IBS, I do almost exclusively work with kids with autism, and the list goes on. Basically, any condition where you know there’s a lot of gut dysbiosis or disturbance in the gut microbiota. So, with this very healthy patient, we have a very sick patient, or not always very sick, but we know they have gut disturbance and they have symptoms as a result of that. We take the stools from this very healthy donor, it goes through a processing, a lab processing which has, you know, pretty standards associated with that. And that’s implanted into the patient who is sick, and there’s several routes of administration, there’s the oral route, there’s a…you know, and they call it bottom up, which is the enemas, or there’s colonoscopies. So, those are the main routes of administration. And so, that’s the basic premise, you know, you have someone who’s got a really great gut, someone who doesn’t, you take the person with a really great gut, you process their fecal material, and you end up with really highly concentrated bacteria, and then, that is then implanted via some mechanism into the patient.

Katie: That makes sense. And it’s so amazing to me, I know that we’ve done all this research, and we know just how important the gut is. In fact, I think the more research comes out, the more clear it is that gut health pretty much is connected to or dictates every other aspect of health. And so, I think it’s amazing that we’re able to now use technology and use science to do things like this, but I think there’s also still, when people first hear about it, there’s a little bit of like a, “What now?” Kind of factor with something like this. But, let’s go a little bit deeper on how we can see such a drastic effect in the gut from this type of procedure.

Dr. Jason: Sure. And you’re really right. I mean, when people hear what I do, they kind of break down into two camps. One camp is like, “I have no clue what you’re talking about and that sounds disgusting.” And the other camp is like, “Wow, that is so fascinating. How do I get one,” or, “how do I learn more about this?” So really, it is that way. And, I think, you know, there’s a lot of misconceptions about this, and a lot of people sort of have the idea that it’s a dirty, messy process, and then it’s smelly and all these other things, which it really isn’t. You know, once it goes to the lab processing, then it is something that comes out very pure, and is really quite palpable. I actually was just in Copenhagen meeting a researcher and somebody who manages the lab there, and we’re just collaborating on some things, and the capsules that they use, you can still see the color of the material, they are double encapsulated. And, he said in the beginning, he was worried about what people might think when they could actually see the color of what was inside of the capsule. And then, he said to me, “Well, you know, they wouldn’t be sick enough if they wouldn’t be willing to take these capsules, just seeing the color,” which is a really good point. So yeah, that is a common thing. Getting into your question now. I know I went a little off-topic here. What were you wanting to know specifically?

Katie: I’d love to go deep on, kind of, what kind of results are you seeing with this clinically? Because, like I said, I definitely understand, at least, through my research in the whole probiotic, prebiotic, all those things that just how important the gut is, but I feel like this is a completely different level, and you’re able to do things in a much more complicated and probably have a much bigger effect. So, what kind of results are you seeing with this?

Dr. Jason: Sure. And, to comment a little bit on the probiotics angle, there’s been no research to date that shows us that there’s actually engraftment. So, what engraftment means is that you’re giving some of these probiotic strains, you’re putting them into the body, but none of them actually stick around. So, they go through the system, they have a bit of a transient effect, which can be good, which can be important, at least for the time being. But then, if you do testing later on, you’ll never find that that strain has increased. So, for example, I’ve had patients who’ve spent two years taking every different kind of probiotic out there trying to build up, let’s say, lactobacillus or Bifido. And, after the two years, they’re just totally frustrated because the levels are not going up. And, that’s really the difference between probiotics and all those other types of supplements out there. They can be good, and they can really result in some changes in symptoms, but none of them stick around. And, that’s the main distinguisher between probiotics and FMT, which is, we’re taking these microbiota from a healthy human. We try to optimize the gut as much as possible before we do the transplant, and after that, when we do testing later on, we can see that these specific strains that we can at least test for, do go up, and with that the symptoms improve.

So, what do I see? I mean, I told you a little bit off the air that I work with a lot of autism, and so that’s a primary part of my work now. I used to work with a lot of different conditions, some of the ones that I’ve described to you a little earlier, like the IBS, IBD, and some neurological symptoms, and so on, and so forth. So, those are the main areas that I have experience in, although, before getting into those, I do want to mention C. diff because I think it’s really important, again, as we’re talking about this, that people understand that this really is only approved for C. diff in Canada and the U.S. Although, there are other ways of getting this, which is, you know, kind of what I do, is helping people who don’t fit into that category. But, with C. difficile, it absolutely has the most research. In the research, there’s a greater than 90% cure rate with the treatment of C. difficile after just one or two treatments with FMT. So, phenomenally effective, and in all of that research, very safe and very well tolerated, which are two areas that I think are very critical, you know, when making the decision to use this kind of a treatment. So, that’s the case for C. difficile.

The other conditions, it really varies. The best, you know, study, if you will, for kids with autism came out of Arizona State University. And, in that study, they actually treated these children for eight weeks using FMT. They did beforehand Vancomycin, as well as a bowel cleanse, which is also similar to what we do. And, after 8 weeks, they checked up 8 weeks of FMT daily treatment, they checked in at 18 weeks and they found an 80% improvement in digestive symptoms, and about a 25% improvement in the autism-related symptoms, which can look like anxiety, or hyperactivity, or sleep disturbance, or cognitive challenges, and language issues. So, they’ve seen about a 25% improvement in that. And then, again at 2 years later, they followed up at that point again, and they’ve seen that the 80% improvement in digestive symptoms maintained, which by the way was huge. These kids with autism have very debilitating and severe GI symptoms in many cases. And then, further to that, at that 2-year point, they’ve seen an additional improvement of 20% in the autism-related symptoms. So, 8 weeks of treatment, 80% improvement in GI symptoms and close to 50% improvement in the autism-related symptoms at the 2-year check-in.

So, what this tells us is that eight weeks of, you know, improving the gut function, that treatment doesn’t only last, so it’s not like a probiotic, let’s say, where when you stop it, it stops working, and the improvements that you see continued to build with time. Now, one of the things that we do that it’s a little different compared to that study is, we actually treat for even longer so we’ve doubled it, so we do 16 weeks of treatment. And, I would say that our results are on par, perhaps exceeding in some areas of that study, and, I think, primarily, because we’re extending the length of the treatment. So those are the main things. I mean, I could talk about some anecdotes of what we see with kids, some stories and things, but that’s a really great study, to help explain, from a research standpoint, what they’d seen.

Katie: That’s really fascinating, and especially understanding, I know there’s a lot of speculation and research about autism having a connection to the gut, so that absolutely makes sense. And, you’re able to do this with kids, which is incredible, and to see those kind of statistical changes is, kind of, unheard of in this field. I want to circle back to C. diff for a second, just on a personal note. So, my husband, his appendix ruptured years ago, and he got a C. diff infection, it was in his body internally after the surgery. And then, he struggled with gut issues for years and he eventually had SIBO as well. And, finally, now, I’ve gotten everything under control, but that’s incredible to know that this is actually approved for anybody who has C. diff. That’s an important one, I want to make sure we just highlight that for anybody who actually has that condition.

Dr. Jason: Yeah. The only, sort of, little caveat here, which I don’t honestly believe is a crime against humanity is, is that, you need to go through three rounds and fail three rounds of conventional fairly hardcore antibiotics, and at such point as you’ve failed those three rounds, then you can use FMT. So, in the treatment, using those three rounds, it can do a lot of damage to people. And, that may well have been why your husband ended up later on developing SIBO because he had to go through and use different antibiotics. Now, he had a ruptured appendix, so, I mean, yes, you absolutely need antibiotics. I’m not suggesting that people shouldn’t use them, but anytime you do use an antibiotic, you are damaging your gut microbiome and you’re increasing the likelihood that you’re going to develop some type of illness that is connected to poor gut diversity. Which, as we continue to do research, nearly every chronic disease is in some way connected to gut disturbance of some sort or another.

And so, yeah, it’s extremely effective, however, you first need to use antibiotics three times and have it not work any of those three times, then you can do an FMT. And, at that point, you know, one, these people can be in extreme pain, having diarrhea, and bleeding, and all sorts of stuff, and, within a day or two, they’re absolutely back on track. So, it’s really phenomenal. And, I personally wish that people didn’t have to try three times, maybe once, or maybe not even at all if they choose. But, nonetheless, those are the standards that we have to follow.

Katie: Wow, yeah, that’s definitely frustrating. So, I’m curious when someone comes to you and you’re working with them on any of these potential things, what does that process look like, how do you prepare their body for this, and then what does the after procedure look like, how do they maintain it?

Dr. Jason: Sure. Great question. So yes, I do really believe there’s something as trying to, as much as possible, optimize the gut to receive, if you will, this treatment. Now, a lot of times, why people are choosing to do FMT is because they don’t have a lot of the good bacteria that they want. And so, they’re saying, “Okay, I don’t have a lot of this stuff that I want, I want to put it in there.” But, the challenge is, is that there’s a lot of other things that we don’t want there because, you know, having a good healthy gut microbiome means that it can manage the environment, and keep out infectious things, and keep overgrowth of bacteria, and fungus, and other things in check.

However, if you don’t have a lot of gut diversity and a lot of really healthy strains of bacteria, that doesn’t happen, and so people have an overgrowth of different types of bacteria. Sometimes, they’re just commensal, they’re within the body, they’re healthy, there are just way too many of them. Same thing on the side of the fungus, it can be a very similar thing. It’s normal to have fungus in your body and Candida, it’s just, when you get too much of it is when you start to get symptomatic and problems are created. So, because of that, before we do FMT, we want to kind of clean the slate, if you will, and try to reduce the amount of burden or reduce the amount of overgrowth that there are.

And sometimes, we’ll do stool testing to get a better sense of what’s really there and what type of interventions we need to include or consider as a part of the pre-treatment process, but ultimately, typically includes a natural antimicrobial of some sort, it could be one or two. Oftentimes, we use Biocidin, otherwise, it oftentimes, especially with kids with autism, does include Vancomycin. Vancomycin is used as a pre-treatment as well in the Arizona study, but in many other studies, it’s something that this field of people that work with FMT have often included beforehand, and that really brings down overgrowth.

And so, you know, some people sometimes say to me, “Well, I’m really against doing any kind of, you know, antimicrobials or antibiotics,” which I totally understand. And the question is, should we do those types of treatment beforehand? And, usually, the way that I explain it is, is that, when we’re doing FMT, we’re trying to climb a mountain. And, the mountain is much easier to climb when there’s less pits, and boulders, and steep parts, and cliffs, which is usually the overgrowth. So, our likelihood of getting to the top of the mountain and seeing a relief in symptoms is going to be higher if we make the climb easier. And the climb will be easier when we clean the slate. So, usually, that’s what happens, we’re getting rid of an overgrowth of bacteria, in some cases parasites, and Candida, and whatever else.

And then, immediately after that, we start with FMT. Now, just before doing the FMT, in some cases depending if we’re working with kids or adults, with adults, we usually get them to do a slight fast, oftentimes a 24-hour to 48-hour fast. Again, fasting will help clear out bacteria. And then, after that they do a bowel cleanse, so we just kind of clean them out even more, usually using magnesium, and increasing doses to the point where they have loose stools. So that’s the pre-part, and then, you know, the treatment part is, again, there’s variables depending on the condition and everything else. But, just relating to the work with autism is, is that we start out with a big loading dose. So, it’s a large amount of bacteria in the beginning, either via capsules or via enema, and then, after those two days of the loading dose, we just go on and do a daily, fairly low, maintenance dose. Now, when I say low, it’s like 2.5 billion bacteria every day. Which is not super high but still high enough. And we do that for the next 16 weeks.

Now, you asked a really good question of, how do you maintain the treatment? There’s a couple of things. One, you want to make sure that you don’t do things that are going to kill off this transplanted bacteria, which we want people to avoid whether or not they’ve done an FMT. But antibiotics as much as possible, you know, eating foods that are going to be damaging it, whether you’re trying to choose organic where possible, and other types of things that we know can damage the gut microbiome. So, that’s one big one but probably as important as that is, trying to get as much diversity in the diet as possible. That’s how you maintain a healthy gut microbiome, is eating as many different foods as you can in about a week, is the way that we put it.

So, the kids or even the adults that we work with, our goal is to initially get up to 50 different kinds of foods in a week. And, from that, you know, once they can reach the 50 foods, then we have them try to shoot for 100 different foods in a given week. And, I’ll admit, that’s hard, that’s not easy. But the standard American’s eating like maybe 10 to 15 different foods in a week, which is not a lot, and that tells us then, that their gut microbiome is not going to be diverse, which is a problem. So, to have a diverse gut microbiome, you need to be eating a lot of different foods, which is why, you know, I take issue with a lot of diets out there which are generally limiting.

Now, I’m not suggesting that you should eat a lot of different junk food, because there’s a lot of that too, but it’s just as much different kinds of foods as you possibly can. And, people, you know, typically it’s like, “Oh, I just eat the same oats.” Well, why not trying different grains, or why not trying different kinds of seeds, and nuts, and so on and so forth. So, that’s a huge factor in helping to re-grow that. And, as you can get that gut to begin healing, that’s when you’ll start to see symptoms even outside of the gut, because, initially, typically, we see the improvements in the digestion first. You know, it depends on how quickly that can happen. In some cases, it’ll be a couple of days where a child would have had diarrhea, in some cases, for three years every single day, within two, three days of doing FMT, bang, normal regular bowel movement.

Same thing with chronic constipation, we have cases where they’re doing enemas every single day just to have a bowel movement. A couple days later, regular form bowel movements using no laxatives, no enemas, no nothing. But, as you can imagine, as that gut begins to heal, and, you know, there’s a lot of talk out there about gut-brain function, and, you know, the gut-brain connection, as well as leaky gut and everything else. Well, as we begin to heal the gut, we then begin to see improvements in many other areas. And so, that’s, you know, really, really promising and, of course, that encourages whoever is experiencing those types of symptoms, to, sort of, you know, pay reverence to these new gut microbiota because they are so transformative. But, they do engraft, so they do become a new part of your microbiome.

And, this is a question that I get a lot as well, “I do it once, do I have to keep coming?” And, the answer is generally, “No, you don’t.” So long as you respect the gut microbiome and continue to try to nurture and build it, you shouldn’t need to continue to redo treatment. Although, there may be some conditions where that’s necessary, just taking Crohn’s or ulcerative colitis as an example, where, you know, you may put somebody into remission, which absolutely can happen. But, as time passes, perhaps something comes up, or they go through a stressful period, or they need to go on an antibiotic, or something like that, in those cases, you may need to consider doing a short burst of a treatment just to reboost that gut microbiota, and, you know, prevent someone from going into a huge flare again. So, that’s the general overview.

Katie: That all makes sense. I would love to talk a little bit more about fasting because you mentioned that you sometimes encourage fasting before because of the gut changes that it leads to. And, I am a huge fan of fasting in my own life. I’ve never done FMT, but I’m curious, just from your perspective and your research, what type of fasting are you using, and what kind of changes can people expect to see from that?

Dr. Jason: Sure. So, I agree with you, I think fasting is awesome. I think even doing intermittent fasting for a lot of people is quite achievable, it’s not very hard to do. And, it really gives the whole body a break. And, there’s a lot of research in a lot of different areas on the benefits of fasting. However, as it relates to FMT, our main goal is, really, to starve off bacteria, and fungus, and things that we don’t want there. And so, that’s really the goal of it, is to reduce overgrowth even further. So, we have somebody do a couple weeks course of say antibiotics, or herbal antimicrobials, or other things, and then we have them stop all of that for 48 hours before starting FMT. And, our big goal with that is because we don’t want any of these bacteria to start killing off, you know, the newly transplanted bacteria, and then we have them do a straight two-day fast.

If they can do it, you know, if they have enough vitality and strength, because some people don’t, and then, of course, young kids, I mean, it’s really hard to keep food from a young child who doesn’t understand what it is you’re trying to do. So, in many cases, we don’t do it in that regard, but as it relates to FMT, our primary goal is to kill off overgrowth of bacteria, as well as, kind of, clean things out and have more space, if you will. You know, sort of, air quotes there “space” for this transplanted bacteria. And then, following, you know, that fast, you do a bowel cleanse, you just clean it out even more. And now, when you do that large loading dose, there’s more, sort of, real estate, if you will, for these transplanted bacteria to go in and have their effects.

Katie: That’s fascinating. And, another thing that you mentioned that I think is probably also just great advice for any of us listening was about eating much more variety in food, and a much more varied diet. This is something I know I’ve read about how in our current diets, like you mentioned, many of us eat the same foods over, and over, and over. And, there are so many benefits across the board from the micronutrients, to the gut diversity, etc., when we eat a whole, like wide variety of foods. Is that something that you recommend even with patients who you’re not doing FMT with?

Dr. Jason: Oh, absolutely, yeah. And, it can be really hard. I mean, you mentioned SIBO before. Well, there’s the typical diets for SIBO, right? Whether it’s SCD or low FODMAP, or, you know, antiSIBO, or whatever the diets are, there’s a lot of them, and they can definitely result in improvements. And I advocate for them, but what I advocate is for short term. You know, some people just get comfortable sticking with a very restrictive diet, and that oftentimes doesn’t work out in the long term. And, you know, there’s always, sort of, fads that are popping up, right, like carnivore diet. I mean, some people are seeing phenomenal improvements with that against autoimmunity and other conditions. But, my concern is, is that, by doing and following those diets, long term, you’re going to be restricting the gut microbiome even more. And depending on how long you’re doing them, you know, perhaps the numbers of those bacteria go down, and then, with time, once you do reintroduce food again, you know, perhaps they’ll come up again to a level that’s supportive of the body. Because, the body does have a, sort of, fingerprint, if you will, of what a healthy gut microbiome is, especially if you do have an appendix. However, the longer you do and follow a restrictive diet, that the bigger the problem that it will create down the line.

So, yeah, I’m definitely a huge proponent of trying to have as much diversity as possible in the diet, but even, you know, beyond that, I think we have to keep in mind, the number one source of all of the bacteria within our gut originated in nature. So, as well as eating as much different types of foods as we can in a week, let’s say, the big goal too should be able to get out in nature, you know, hug trees, walk barefoot, you know, do gardening, do all of those things that expose you to different types of environments. And, for those of you that like traveling, you know, you can just use it as an excuse to go traveling and, you know, put your feet in different sand or things like that. But, I really think it’s important that as much of eating different foods is important, it’s also getting out in nature, and, you know, forest walking, and all these other things that have shown real benefit. And, I think a part of that is just because of the microbiome.

And a lot of the issues that we’re dealing with now is…well, in part it’s overpopulation, and we don’t have the exposure to parks, and fields, and everything else, but as well with that, people are just wanting to be clean all the time. And, I think that, in part, has created some of the issues that we have now, and that’s this whole idea of germ theory and people, you know, concerned about not getting any types of bacteria. But, that doesn’t really help the body or help the immune system in the long run.

Katie: Got it. Yeah, I’m also a huge fan of spending time in nature gardening, my kids just being outside barefoot climbing trees, interacting with the whole microbiome of the environment. I’m curious if, because this is able to make such a huge change in the body, and, I mean, it really is staggering, the things you’re saying it’s able to do. How can you make sure that it’s not going to cause a negative change? In other words, is there any instance where the bacteria that’s being transplanted isn’t optimal, and then, it leads to problems?

Dr. Jason: Yeah. No, this is a really a great question. Now, I’ll explain my experience, but really, what I think is more valuable than my experience is the large depth of research that we have. And, when you do proper donor screening and you make sure there’s nothing infectious there, then the likelihood of having any kind of negative reaction is very limited. And, if you look at the wide range of research, and they’ve done this on all kinds of different conditions by now, they always, at the end of the studies say, you know, “Safe, well tolerated, effective in many cases.” And so, that’s key. I mean, that is really key. However, if you do this wrong and you don’t do donor screening properly, absolutely, this can be a huge problem. I mean, I’ve seen cases, usually, people doing it at home, and, you know, there’s like, “Oh, my sister’s boyfriend tells me he’s very healthy and I’m not very healthy at all, and so, I’m going to use his stool.” And, there’s no screening, and then, later on, they come to find out, “Oh, my God, I’ve got H. pylori, and I’ve got all these other issues.” And then, you go ahead and test this, you know, sister’s boyfriend, “Oh, he had H. pylori too, and he had these other infections.” We just didn’t know about it because he was extremely healthy, or at least appeared to be healthy, and his immune system was strong enough, and he wasn’t showing overt symptoms of that.

So for us, you know, we do a lot of blood screening looking for anything infectious, hepatitis, HIV, syphilis, all of that stuff, blood screening, all of those, plus stool screening, so looking for parasites, you know, viral infections, and Candida overgrowth, and so on, and so forth. There’s a long list of things that we test for. And that’s really important, of course, testing. But more important than that is even their medical history. So, all of our donors are breastfed, vaginally born, never used antibiotics in their life. In our case, they’re not vaccinated, although I don’t know that that’s an absolute criteria, but just so happens to be that those are the donors that we work with. And then, you know, they’re not overweight, you know, they’re athletic, they’re in sports, and the list goes on.

So, we need to make sure from a blood and stool testing standpoint that they’re very clean, as well as from a history standpoint, making sure that you know, no immediate family members have cancer when they’re 30, or brother who’s got, you know, a skin condition, or other things like that. So, it’s really…the donor screening is really, really critical in making sure that it’s safe and effective. Because, if you have a low quality donor, you may not see any change of symptoms because they are not giving you a lot of gut diversity. Same thing with, if you do take stool from a donor and they are not properly screened, and it turns out, you know, Yersinia or some type of infection, that could cause real problems in someone whose gut is compromised.

So, yes, there are risks, but they can be mitigated by proper donor screening, and so that’s absolute number one. And, this is why I’m not a huge advocate for home FMT or DIY FMT. I know some people resort to that, and I understand why people do, because it’s not easy to get it and it’s not exactly cheap either. But, I think it’s just really, really critical that you make sure that proper donor screening is done, because when it’s done, it’s extremely safe. We do see mild symptoms, you know, when we do the enemas, for example, there can be an increase in gas, a little bit of cramping, things of that nature. Kids with autism, sometimes we’ll see some increase in their existing symptoms. So, perhaps, they’re a little hyperactive, they may be a little more hyperactive for a short period of time.

And a big part of that is because we’re introducing a large amount of bacteria, and it’s kind of having a fight, if you will, with the existing gut microbiota to find some sort of equilibrium. And, in the process of finding that equilibrium, there’s a bit of a fight. Some of them die, and when they die, the body has to detox them out. And, if the body has trouble in detoxing, that’s when it can become an issue where they can experience some symptoms. Because, in effect, there’s an increase of inflammation in the body, and anything that’s already going on will be exacerbated somewhat. So, actually, a lot of what we do, or a part of what we do is, is we have most people do, supporting their liver to really make sure that their liver can properly detox whatever we’re killing off.

Katie: Got it. That makes sense. Okay, so for anyone who’s listening who maybe has SIBO or has some kind of diagnosis, or has a child struggling through autism symptoms, what is the process like to find you or someone like you, and how can they begin that process?

Dr. Jason: Sure. So, to find someone like me, there’s not a lot of people like me. I’m the only one that I know of right now in the world that’s duplicating the study for autism. In effect, we’re duplicating it in many ways, although we’ve improved it in others. So, there’s nobody else that’s doing it the way that I am. Although, there are other clinics that do FMT, so I’m not the only one to do that. But for us, I mean, most people are either referred by their physician or they hear about it through somebody who got really great results, you know, another parent. So, those are two big ways. And, they usually just send them to our website, which is fmtsolution.com, and they can learn a lot more about that.

And, for us, for autism, I would say most kids with autism are absolute candidates for FMT. I mean, I’ve just looked at so many stool tests now and heard from so many families by now where I don’t even think twice about whether or not I think someone who has autism and a lot of digestive symptoms, they should definitely consider it if they’re considering therapies and they want to go down the route of treating the gut, I think that’s definitely the case. However, in other cases, like IBS, and SIBO, and IBD, and things, I definitely think there are some people who are better candidates than others. And so, for us, we really make sure that we screen and we really get a sense of, hey, is this person likely to show benefit from FMT? And, if they are, great, we can have a discussion about what that treatment might look like. But, if not, then, you know, perhaps go do something else.

And really, what I think is important, of course, if you have C. difficile, you’re in a, you know, acute state, you’ve got a lot of problems, you need treatment. So, we don’t really treat C. difficile. But, for other conditions take IBS, for example, actually, the research is quite compelling based on the improvements that people can experience with FMT. But, it’s not the first place that I would start. You know, if somebody came to me and said, “Oh, I have IBS.” And, I’d say, “Well, what kinds of other treatments have you done today?” Well, nothing really. I took a supplement that I found on Amazon somewhere. Well, I think you need to do a lot more first, right? Like, let’s see, you clean up your diet, let’s see you get your lifestyle, improved, reducing stress, getting more physically active, and the list goes on. If all of those things fail, then yeah, I think you might consider doing FMT. But, otherwise, you know, it doesn’t make a lot of sense. For Crohn’s and ulcerative colitis, similar thing. I mean, those are conditions that are generally more severe, but it’s definitely something that, you know, I still think you need to really make sure the foundation on the groundwork stuff has already been done.

And then, SIBO, this is an interesting one because I used to treat a lot of SIBO. In my experience of treating a lot of SIBO, I’ve never come across a patient that didn’t first have some form of really bad gut dysbiosis. Meaning that, perhaps, I hear these stories all the time it’s like, “Oh, well, in my 20s, I was given antibiotics for acne for five years,” or, “I had one month where I was in IV for pneumonia infection,” or “I got ear infections all the time as a kid, and then I had antibiotics every couple of months, and then leading into that, I had constipation throughout my teenage years, and then in my 20s, you know, I got out of university went to work, it was extremely stressful and everything just fell apart then.” But oftentimes, when things fall apart, it’s just a matter of time, it’s just the straw that broke the camel’s back, but what’s really happening is, is that there were many signs before that, that showed that the gut was becoming more and more deplete of these healthy beneficial broad-spectrum bacteria. And so, that’s usually the case.

Now, you know, given that I’ve treated a lot of SIBO, I don’t personally see FMT as a treatment for SIBO. Although, there is a very, you know, small study that did show that, that it is actually something that can treat SIBO, and quite effectively, actually, I was surprised. But, what I think, if you do consider treatment with SIBO, you definitely need to make sure that you’re reducing the overgrowth to begin with, kind of, like we talked about before, right? It’s a mountain, we’re climbing it. We’ve got to try to reduce this overgrowth as much as possible to make it so that we can get to that ascent.

But, really, I would consider it if someone continues to relapse. I believe a lot of the relapse is not around, “Oh, well, you just started eating, you know, food again too quickly.” Or, you know, whatever it is, “You didn’t stick as close to the low FODMAP as you should have.” I think it’s just because there’s nothing to counteract it. It’s just like you have a garden, right, and you get rid of all of the weeds, but you never put in any corn. Well, the weeds are just going to come back, it’s not like when, it’s just how soon? And so, you need to rebuild the gut. And, for some people, they can do that through expanding the diet slowly, and then, slowly working on that. Remember, I said there’s a bit of a fingerprint. However, if that fingerprint is gone and there’s no memory of what a healthy gut looks like, it’s going to be nearly impossible, in some of those extreme chronic cases of SIBO, to totally, you know, be into long term remission, able to eat and have a normal healthy lifestyle again. So, in those cases, I might consider doing it, but it would follow a pretty intensive pre-treatment to, kind of, clean out that garden, if you will.

So that, when you have done that, you can immediately follow it up with FMT, lock in those benefits, and see that it doesn’t continue to relapse. And, I’ve definitely done that, and that works quite well. But again, you know, people, when they’re at the point of considering that, they’ve usually gone and done and tried a lot of things, because, you know, for a lot of people, it’s quite an extreme thing to travel for this and to, you know, pay the money that it takes to get it done, and be gone from work. And so, there’s a lot of variables that come into play. So, usually the people that reach that point are more severe, I would say.

But, yeah, so that’s the premise. I mean, people find out about me through a lot of different ways. We screen to make sure that, A, they would benefit from this, and B, that they’re very well informed. You know, we want people to really understand what they’re doing, why they’re doing it, and if they have any question that they’re very clear on it, so that there’s not a, “Oh, wait.” They know they show up, and, “Oh, wait. What, you’re actually using, like, fecal material?” It’s like, “Well, yeah, that’s what we do here.” So, really, making sure people are very well informed and that they can make a decision from that place. And then, if so, you know, we go into the logistics and planning of arranging their treatment, and taking care of things that way.

Katie: Got it. Are there any, like, contraindications or downsides? I know you said you guys screen really carefully, and I think it makes total sense that someone should try other things first and at least have a really solid foundation with diet and other lifestyle factors. But, are there contraindications or concerns people should know about this?

Dr. Jason: Yeah. For the most part, not really. However, close to a year ago, there was actually someone who died from FMT. And, the reason that they died is…well, there’s a couple of factors. One, they were in their 70s, which doesn’t really have any bearing, I’ve treated lots of patients that are elderly, but the other thing is, they had no immune system. So, they had, you know, a medical condition that meant that they had no immune system. I don’t just mean, like, a weak immune system, they get every cold, that kind of thing. Like, they had no immune system. The donor had a certain strain of E. Coli that was what we call an MDMR, so it was a multidrug-resistant organism, MDRO. And, that E. Coli strain was resistant to antibiotics.

So, the patient had no immune system to fight it off, the antibiotics couldn’t kill it. And so, what actually happened, tragically, is that this patient died. So, I would be cautious, now, to treat anybody that had no immune system. And, you know, someone that might be in that case would be really advanced cancer, or HIV, or other conditions like that. Most people have an immune system, but here’s a case where they didn’t. Now, on top of that, we screen for all these multidrug-resistant organisms to make sure that donors don’t have them, as well as that they don’t have any risks of having them, for example, you know, traveling to developing or, you know, Third World countries, you know, spending a lot of time in or around people that are in hospitals, or working in the healthcare field, and the list goes on. So, we make sure our donors don’t check any of those boxes as well as screen for it. But, I would say that’s, you know, quite likely a possible indication.

The other one is having a perforated bowel, right? But, we would know about that, and someone to be in a pretty acute state. So, if someone had a perforated bowel, you wouldn’t want to go putting in a whole bunch of bacteria because that would then leak into their system. As you, you know, sort of, talked about with your husband, you know, he had a perforated appendix, I mean, that’s a pretty severe thing, and, you know about it because you’re in severe pain, or you’ll find out pretty quickly if you haven’t found out immediately when it happened. So, those are some of the main ones, but otherwise, I wouldn’t say there’s any other strong contraindications. But, the main indication, I would say, is, is that there’s a history of damage to the gut microbiome, even through natural stuff. You know, I’ve had a lot of patients that have just spent years taking all different kinds of natural herbal antimicrobials. And, they’re less damaging, but they can still be damaging if you do them long enough, you know, combined with limited restrictive diets or bad diets, and the list goes on.

Katie: Got it. Okay. Yeah, that’s really helpful to understand.

This podcast is sponsored by BLUblox. They create stylish and effective blue light blocking glasses to use for any time of day. Their BluLite lens is a clear lens designed for people who work under artificial light during the day, but they don’t want to look like they are wearing orange glasses. This one is designed to target the light that creates digital eyestrain, migraines, headaches and more. Their SummerGlo lens steps it up a notch for those who are exposed to intense artificial light all day and/or who suffer from migraines, anxiety, depression and SAD by blocking the light that contributes to those conditions. For better sleep, their Sleep lens is a complete blue and green light blocking full red lens that is ideal for use after dark. When the sun goes down, the red glasses go on. The studies show that by blocking blue light, you can increase your melatonin production and improve sleep. And lastly, if you can’t create a perfectly dark sleep environment, their REMedy blackout sleep mask is the next best thing, blocking 100% of light while staying comfortable and is easy to sleep in! Code wellnessmama gives 15% off at blublox.com/wellnessmama

This podcast is brought to you by Wellnesse, a new company I co-founded to tackle the toughest personal care products and create natural and safe products that work as well as conventional alternatives. I realized that even the most natural of my friends still used conventional toothpaste and shampoo because they weren’t willing to sacrifice quality. There are natural options and ones that work, but find products that do both was almost impossible. We tackled the toughest first, creating the first and only natural toothpaste that is fluoride and glycerin free, and that has calcium and hydroxyapatite to uniquely support the mineral balance in the mouth. It also contains neem oil and green tea to support a healthy bacterial balance in the mouth and fight bad breath. Be the first to try it and our innovative natural hair care at wellnesse.com

Katie: And, I think you’re right, like, this seems like, probably, a foreign concept to a lot of people. But, like you’ve explained so well today, there are so many applications for this, you just want to make sure that your body is well prepared, and that you are doing the right things afterwards. What kind of future applications do you see for this that you think we’re not even aware of yet?

Dr. Jason: Yeah, great question. So, I really truly believe that every chronic disease, take heart disease, take cancer, take neurological diseases, diabetes, and the list goes on, I believe they all have a connection to some type of dysfunction in the gut. And, the more that we’re doing the research, the more this is becoming clear. Take, you know, Parkinson’s for example, they’ve identified, now, certain bacteria that are missing or, you know, not present or not present in high enough numbers in people with Parkinson’s. So, what’s going on there, right? Like, something’s going on, and so, how are we going to treat that? So, yes, I believe that all chronic diseases will be treated with time with FMT or variants of it. You know, companies are working on identifying certain strains, I don’t think that’s going to work. I think having the full spectrum of the gut microbiota is really going to make a difference.

But, just to give you some context, they’re actually even studying right now, the study started up in China, using FMT for the treatment of coronavirus. You know, the study was just posted, they’re just starting to do this research. So, wow, you know, that’s crazy, this is a virus and they’re using FMT. But, it happens to have some gut symptoms and other things, and so, the immune system is very connected to it. But, I think that, and as well, they’ve done some research on using FMT in certain…while patients are using certain chemotherapeutics. And, more explicitly, they study this in mice, where mice taking certain chemo drugs, and then they give them FMT, seeing a better outcome. And so, I don’t know, you know, why exactly that is? Is it just that the FMT is so beneficial or is it that it’s helping to enhance the effectiveness of the chemotherapeutics, and it’s likely a combination of the two.

So, I think there’s going to be a lot more indications as we begin to understand, you know, the pathophysiology, if you will, of the development of that condition, and we’ll be able to see, “Oh, you know, this is what’s happening.” So, they’re even, you know, using it for hepatic encephalopathy, right, which is a condition of the liver, and they’re seeing great results with that. So, I truly believe that all chronic disease, with time, we’ll learn how to treat it effectively with FMT. And, it’s not to say that, you know, everybody with a chronic disease that would get FMT would necessarily see dramatic improvements, but, you know, taking cancer for an example, you know, a drug will get approved when only 10% of people show improvement of it, you know, not even a cure or anything else. So, I think there’s going to be very wide application.

And, as we move into this world where we’re using so many antibiotics, and our environment is so polluted, and, you know, our air is polluted, our water is polluted, our food system is polluted, I mean, all of those things just wreck havoc on the gut, and that is hugely concerning. And, as we, you know, have more of these external forces through the environment, plus our lifestyles, plus all the antibiotics, we’re going to be ending up with, well, more chronic disease, but also superbugs, and things that we cannot control, or our immune systems and our gut microbiome will not be able to control, and that we can’t, you know, quickly come up with, you know, a vaccine or something like that to handle. So, I think there’s going to be application in other cases where once we start to get these, you know, conditions where there’s superbugs and things that we can’t treat with their standard therapies, this will be something that will be used to try to treat those types of conditions. So, that problem is only getting worse and worse. If you see what’s happening in hospitals and beyond, I mean, they’re fighting crazy stuff, and the most intense treatments are not killing it off. And so, you know, what do we do?

Katie: Yeah, that’s a great point. And, with what you’ve explained of how people see such drastic changes, and that these changes actually last, which is in stark contrast to so many of the other treatments available, I think you’re right. I think it’s going to be a really fascinating next couple of years as we start to see this practically applied more, and just continued research on it. For people who want to, like, learn more from you, or maybe even learn more about starting this process, where can people find you?

Dr. Jason: Yeah. So, I keep a fairly low profile, partly A, because it’s my nature, and partly B, because there’s a lot of people that don’t think FMT is all that great, and they want to stop anybody doing it, which is, to me, kind of crazy, but nonetheless. But, the best way to learn more about me is on my website, it’s just www.fmt, (Fecal Microbiota Transplant), www.fmtsolution.com. And so, that’s the main and easiest way to get a hold of me. There’s a lot of information there, we’ve got a long list of FAQs, for people to really understand what they’re doing. And then, also on that site, if you are serious about this and you don’t just want to, you know, talk about the weather or talk about, you know, what you’ve done in your life and everything else, but you really are serious about FMT after reading through the website, then definitely there’s an opportunity where you can book a call and speak with a naturopathic doctor on my team to better understand the process and determine if you are a fit.

The website is really geared towards families with kids with autism, and so that’s most of the information. But, nonetheless, if you have a different condition, we do accept other patients who have different conditions and you can still feel free to reach out. We will alter the treatment program, somewhat, depending on the condition. So, not everybody does 16 weeks of treatment, you know, many times people can just do 10 enemas, and that’s it. Or, perhaps they need to do longer, you know, it really, kind of, depends. But, yes, that’s the best way to find me. If none of those ways seems to be getting a hold of me, you can also just hit me up personally on my email which is jason@drjasonklop.com, and I’m happy to answer questions, and/or forward you to speak with the other Doc in my team if I think the call is warranted.

Katie: Awesome. And, I will make sure that those are linked in the show notes, as well as, I think I’ve seen some of the studies that you’ve mentioned, I’ll link to those as well so people can read. Because, I think, like as I said, it’s a really fascinating area, and one that we’re just starting to explore, certainly, I’m just starting to explore. And, I’m grateful for you and your time today, and explaining both the process and the science of how this works. And, I think you’re right, as we see more chronic problems and more acute dangerous problems, I think we’re going to need solutions like this to be able to battle them. I’m grateful that you’re there on the front line doing this right now.

Dr. Jason: Cool. Well, thank you so much. And, I think just to add to that quickly. I think to help us improve even further, the outcomes, will be to better identify how we can match a donor and a patient. Right now, we really follow what I call, like, the shotgun approach. Sure, we make sure we have a really high-quality donor, but we’re not totally clear on what of that high-quality donor is making such a dramatic difference in a specific patient. And, I also have some cases where, you know, we’ll have two people that come get treatment for ulcerative colitis, one of them just has phenomenal outcomes goes into remission stays into remission for years, and then the other person will see little or no change. And so, why is that? And so, I think that with time, and this is a project that I’m tackling currently, is trying to better identify how we can match a donor and a patient. And, as we begin to learn or create that type of model, that will help us to become even more specific for the types of conditions that we can treat and how specifically to treat them. So, if we’ve got a, you know, sort of, a Rolodex, if you will, of healthy donors, and we understand their gut microbiome, how can we take a look at these patients and say, “Well, here’s somebody to match you up with?” And, that’s really the fine-tuning of this sort of process, is to try to figure that out.

Now, I might not ever figure it out, because I think this is much more complex than we might imagine. For example, you know, some people think it may not actually be about the bacteria, it could be about the phages, or it could be about something else that’s not just about the bacteria. So, I think it is really a complex problem that I’m here working on trying to solve. But, I do think that that will allow us to increase the benefits that we see, the improvements that we see, as well as helping to identify what types of illnesses or conditions could benefit from this, and/or how to maximize the improvements for people.

So, yes. But, otherwise, yeah, thank you so much, Katie, for having me here. And, I really appreciate you asking some great questions.

Katie: Thank you for your time, and thanks to all of you for listening and for your time sharing one of your most valuable assets with us. We’re so grateful that you did and I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of “The Wellness Mama Podcast.”

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.

Thanks to Our Sponsors

This podcast is sponsored by BLUblox. They create stylish and effective blue light blocking glasses for any time of day. Their BluLite lens is a clear lens designed for people who work under artificial light during the day, but they don’t want to look like they are wearing orange glasses. This one is designed to target the light that created digital eyestrain, migraines, headaches and more. Their SummerGlo lens steps it up a notch for those who are exposed to intense artificial light all day and who suffer from migraines, anxiety, depression and SAD by blocking the light that contributes to those conditions. For better sleep, their Sleep lens is a complete blue and green light blocking full red lens that is ideal for use after dark. When the sun goes down, the red glasses go on. The studies show that by blocking blue light, you can increase your melatonin production and improve sleep. And lastly, if you can’t create a perfectly dark sleep environment, their REMedy blackout sleep mask is the next best thing, blocking 100% of light while staying comfortable and is easy to sleep in! Code wellnessmama gives 15% off at blublox.com/wellnessmama

This podcast is brought to you by Wellnesse, a new company I co-founded to tackle the toughest personal care products and create natural and safe products that work as well as conventional alternatives. I realized that even the most natural of my friends still used conventional toothpaste and shampoo because they weren’t willing to sacrifice quality. There are natural options and ones that work, but find products that do both was almost impossible. We tackled the toughest first, creating the first and only natural toothpaste that is fluoride and glycerin free, and that has calcium and hydroxyapatite to uniquely support the mineral balance in the mouth. It also contains neem oil and green tea to support a healthy bacterial balance in the mouth and fight bad breath. Be the first to try it and our innovative natural hair care at wellnesse.com

]]>
clean no 00:55:48 Katie Wells
317: Tackling Insomnia, Anxiety, Weight, and Hormones Naturally With Esther Blumhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/esther-blum/ Thu, 27 Feb 2020 11:00:04 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=423383 clean no 01:01:06 Katie Wells 316: 17 Practical Time-Saving Systems for Parents (& How I “Get It All Done”)https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/time-saving-systems/ Mon, 24 Feb 2020 11:00:48 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=423381 clean no 01:14:41 Katie Wells 315: Mindfulness for Moms With Ziva Meditation’s Emily Fletcherhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ziva-meditation/ Thu, 20 Feb 2020 11:00:08 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=423377 clean no 00:52:05 Katie Wells 314: Why We Need Meat (& So Does the Planet) With Anya Fernaldhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/anya-fernald/ Mon, 17 Feb 2020 11:00:49 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=423327 clean no 00:55:37 Katie Wells 313: The Tapping Solution to Reduce Anxiety, Stress, and Pain With Nick Ortnerhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/tapping-solution/ Thu, 13 Feb 2020 11:00:54 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=423279 clean no 00:59:35 Katie Wells 312: What to Expect & How to Prepare for Menopause with Dr. Lyla Blake-Gumbshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/lyla-blake-gumbs/ Mon, 10 Feb 2020 11:00:20 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=423134 clean no 00:54:36 Katie Wells 311: Getting Unstuck From Self-Sabotage With Erin Pheil of MindFixhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/mindfix/ Thu, 06 Feb 2020 11:00:26 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=422998 clean no 00:58:41 Katie Wells 310: Can Our Soils Heal Us? How Regenerative Agriculture and Home Gardens Can Improve Our Healthhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/leah-webb/ Mon, 03 Feb 2020 11:00:47 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=422880 clean no 00:56:26 Katie Wells 309: How I Overcame Trauma (and Lost 50 Pounds)https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/wellness-mama-weight/ Thu, 30 Jan 2020 11:00:22 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=422783 clean no 01:02:43 Katie Wells 308: How to Use Your Hormones to Your Advantage With FloLivinghttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/floliving/ Mon, 27 Jan 2020 11:00:54 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=422727 clean no 01:01:08 Katie Wells 307: Anti-Aging Skin Science From the Inside Out With Dr. Emilia Javorskyhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/emilia-javorsky/ Thu, 23 Jan 2020 11:00:46 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=422671 clean no 00:45:31 Katie Wells 306: Dangers of Mold Exposure & How to Protect Yourself From Mold Toxicity With Ann Shippy MDhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ann-shippy/ Mon, 20 Jan 2020 11:00:26 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=422586 clean no 00:50:36 Katie Wells 305: A Day in the Life: Wellness Mama Health Routineshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/day-in-the-life/ Thu, 16 Jan 2020 11:00:17 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=422532 clean no 01:05:44 Katie Wells 304: Ninja Warrior Travis Brewer on Movement, Gratitude, and Playhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/travis-brewer/ Mon, 13 Jan 2020 11:00:05 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=422357 clean no 00:50:03 Katie Wells 303: Gabby Reece on Parenting, Creating Strong Relationships, and XPThttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/gabby-reece/ Thu, 09 Jan 2020 11:00:44 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=422182 clean no 00:54:16 Katie Wells 302: 5 Ways to Move for Improved Posture, Sleep, and Health With Align Methodhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/align-method/ Mon, 06 Jan 2020 11:00:33 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=422166 clean no 01:02:38 Katie Wells 301: How to Use Light to Drastically Improve Health With Matt Marucahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/matt-maruca/ Mon, 30 Dec 2019 11:00:41 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=421385 clean no 01:05:40 Katie Wells 300: A Big Announcement and Happy Holidays!https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/wellnesse-happy-holidays/ Mon, 23 Dec 2019 11:00:42 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=421364 clean no 00:41:55 Katie Wells 299: How Serenity Kids Is Revolutionizing the Baby Food Industryhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/serenity-kids/ Mon, 16 Dec 2019 11:00:39 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=421266 clean no 00:57:40 Katie Wells 298: Getting Back to Happy With Marc and Angel Chernoffhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/marc-angel-chernoff/ Mon, 09 Dec 2019 11:00:01 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=421140 clean no 00:55:40 Katie Wells 297: Why the Wahls Protocol Works for More Than MS: An Update With Dr. Terry Wahlshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/terry-wahls/ Mon, 02 Dec 2019 11:00:07 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=421040 clean no 00:51:35 Katie Wells 296: Why AI-Assisted High Intensity Training Is the Next Exercise Frontier With CAR.O.Lhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/carol/ Mon, 25 Nov 2019 11:00:44 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=420817 clean no 00:57:11 Katie Wells 295: Health Foods That Are Actually Making Us Sick With Dr. Gundry of the Plant Paradoxhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/dr-gundry/ Mon, 18 Nov 2019 11:00:51 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=420647 clean no 01:01:37 Katie Wells 294: Using Targeted Nutrition to Alleviate Hormone Related Issues With Dr. Chris Masterjohnhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/targeted-nutrition/ Mon, 11 Nov 2019 11:00:16 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=420528 clean no 01:04:37 Katie Wells 293: Functional Medicine for Families and Stress Reduction With Dr. Rick Henriksenhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/rick-henriksen/ Mon, 04 Nov 2019 11:00:16 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=420361 clean no 00:54:37 Katie Wells 292: Transformational Nutrition From the Inside Out With Cynthia Garciahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/transformational-nutrition/ Mon, 28 Oct 2019 11:00:09 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=420045 clean no 00:51:30 Katie Wells 291: How to Create Your Ideal Family, Career, and Life With Kion CEO Angelo Keelyhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/angelo-keely/ Mon, 21 Oct 2019 11:00:15 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=420042 clean no 00:57:17 Katie Wells 290: Braving Dark Night of the Soul and Learning to Own Yourself With Kelly Broganhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/own-yourself/ Mon, 14 Oct 2019 11:00:22 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=419896 clean no 01:11:16 Katie Wells 289: Stoic Wisdom for Modern Life and Parenting With Ryan Holidayhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ryan-holiday/ Mon, 07 Oct 2019 11:00:04 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=419147 clean no 01:01:12 Katie Wells 288: Breakthrough Solutions for Anxiety, Depression and PTSD With Apollo Founder Dr. David Rabinhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/david-rabin/ Mon, 30 Sep 2019 11:00:12 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=419069 clean no 01:05:07 Katie Wells 287: How to Create and Rekindle Passion & Libido in Relationships With Susan Brattonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/susan-bratton/ Mon, 23 Sep 2019 11:00:31 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=418773 clean no 00:58:46 Katie Wells 286: Create a Dashboard for Your Life With Dan Pardi From Human OShttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/human-os/ Mon, 16 Sep 2019 11:00:57 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=418617 clean no 01:02:49 Katie Wells 285: How to Have a Miracle Morning and Organize Your Day With Hal Elrodhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/hal-elrod/ Mon, 09 Sep 2019 11:00:35 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=418448 clean no 01:05:31 Katie Wells 284: Why Healthcare Sharing May Be the Future of Medicine With KNEW Healthhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/knew-health/ Mon, 02 Sep 2019 11:00:24 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=418250 clean no 00:56:11 Katie Wells 283: A Whole-Person Approach to Health With Razi Berryhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/razi-berry/ Mon, 26 Aug 2019 11:00:55 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=418069 clean no 00:49:17 Katie Wells 282: An Electric Approach to Fitness, Rehabilitation, and Brain Health With NeuFithttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/neufit/ Mon, 19 Aug 2019 11:00:55 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=417789 clean no 00:45:35 Katie Wells 281: Building Resiliency, Mindset and Doing the Impossible With Joel Runyonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/joel-runyon/ Mon, 12 Aug 2019 11:00:24 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=417560 clean no 00:47:29 Katie Wells 280: Using Adaptogens & Herbal Supplements to Manage Stress (Even for Kids) With Gaia Herbshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/gaia-herbs/ Mon, 05 Aug 2019 11:00:36 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=417360 clean no 00:49:24 Katie Wells 279: Making a Personalized Birth Plan With Dr. Elizabeth Pearcehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/elizabeth-pearce/ Mon, 29 Jul 2019 11:00:56 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=417156 clean no 00:56:43 Katie Wells 278: Pet Health and Natural Remedies With Full Bucket Healthhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/full-bucket-health/ Thu, 25 Jul 2019 11:00:01 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=414929 clean no 00:54:03 Katie Wells 277: Breast Implant Illness: What It Is & How to Heal With Diane Kazerhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/diane-kazer/ Mon, 22 Jul 2019 11:00:26 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=405066 clean no 01:04:15 Katie Wells 276: What You Need to Know About Olive Oil With Tony Kasandrinoshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/tony-kasandrinos/ Thu, 18 Jul 2019 11:00:29 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=405035 clean no 00:42:40 Katie Wells 275: Outer Order, Inner Calm and Happiness With Gretchen Rubinhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/gretchen-rubin/ Mon, 15 Jul 2019 11:00:31 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=405006 clean no 00:53:24 Katie Wells 274: Spirituality, Psychedelics & Circumcision: Taboo Topics With Luke Storeyhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/luke-storey/ Thu, 11 Jul 2019 11:00:20 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=405004 clean no 01:19:00 Katie Wells 273: The Power of Movement for Mind and Body With Aaron Alexander of The Align Podcasthttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/aaron-alexander/ Mon, 08 Jul 2019 11:00:06 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404977 clean no 01:13:31 Katie Wells 272: Castor Oil for Digestion, Health, and Beauty With Dr. Marisol Teijeiro NDhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/marisol-teijeiro/ Thu, 04 Jul 2019 11:00:52 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404975 clean no 00:56:55 Katie Wells 271: How to Calm Your Hormones and Stop Being Hangry With Sarah Fragosohttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/sarah-fragoso/ Mon, 01 Jul 2019 11:00:20 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404932 clean no 00:56:32 Katie Wells 270: You Don’t Need More Sleep, You Need Better Sleep With ChiliPadhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/chilipad/ Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:00:51 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404878 clean no 00:54:32 Katie Wells 269: Kombucha Questions Answered: Alcohol, Candida, Pregnancy, and More With Kombucha Kamphttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/hannah-crum/ Mon, 24 Jun 2019 11:00:02 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404762 clean no 00:47:14 Katie Wells 268: Tildet Varon on Positive Parenting & Effective Family Communicationhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/tildet-varon/ Thu, 20 Jun 2019 11:00:27 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404760 clean no 00:50:17 Katie Wells 267: Solving Joint Pain & Why Sports Aren’t Good for Kids With Hunter Fitnesshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/hunter-fitness/ Mon, 17 Jun 2019 11:00:41 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404674 clean no 01:15:54 Katie Wells 266: Decoding Skin Health, Eczema, Acne, and More With Jennifer Fugohttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/jennifer-fugo/ Thu, 13 Jun 2019 11:00:08 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404400 clean no 00:57:05 Katie Wells 265: With Hormones, Normal Isn’t Always Normal With Dr. Shawn Tassonehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/shawn-tassone/ Mon, 10 Jun 2019 11:00:12 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404394 clean no 00:49:50 Katie Wells 264: Creating Exceptional Children & Polymaths Using Games of Genius With Opher Brayerhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/opher-brayer/ Thu, 06 Jun 2019 11:00:37 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404381 clean no 01:09:26 Katie Wells 263: The Beautiful No & Other Life Lessons With Sheri Salatahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/sheri-salata/ Mon, 03 Jun 2019 11:00:39 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404134 clean no 00:50:47 Katie Wells 262: Dr. Andrew Weil on Integrative Medicine, Reducing Inflammation & Most Important Factors for Healthhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/dr-weil/ Thu, 30 May 2019 11:00:43 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404130 clean no 00:55:45 Katie Wells 261: Practical Tips and Mom Hacks From Physical Kitchness Chrissa Bensonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/chrissa-benson/ Mon, 27 May 2019 11:00:51 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=404024 clean no 00:49:18 Katie Wells 260: Why the 21st Century Is at War With Your Spine With Ty Carzolihttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ty-carzoli/ Thu, 23 May 2019 11:00:34 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=403859 clean no 01:02:07 Katie Wells 259: How to Learn Languages by Ear With Idahosa Nesshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/mimic-method/ Mon, 20 May 2019 12:00:48 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=403746 clean no 00:46:36 Katie Wells 258: Beating SIBO, IBS, and Histamine Intolerance With A Gutsy Girl Sarah Kay Hoffmanhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/sarah-kay-hoffman/ Thu, 16 May 2019 11:00:09 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=403727 clean no 00:56:06 Katie Wells 257: Secret Ingredients in Our Food: The Truth About GMOshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/secret-ingredients/ Mon, 13 May 2019 11:00:33 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=403575 clean no 01:19:24 Katie Wells 256: Decoding What Your Body Really Needs With Chris Masterjohn PhDhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/chris-masterjohn/ Thu, 09 May 2019 11:00:36 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=403539 clean no 01:26:39 Katie Wells 255: Dr. Valter Longo on a Fasting Mimicking Diet and Increasing Healthspanhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/valter-longo/ Mon, 06 May 2019 11:00:51 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=403437 clean no 00:54:16 Katie Wells 254: Business, Lifestyle, and Routines With The Skinny Confidentialhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/skinny-confidential/ Fri, 03 May 2019 11:00:13 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=403397 clean no 01:00:17 Katie Wells 253: A (Semi) Serious Ultra-Spiritual Conversation With JP Searshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/jp-sears/ Thu, 02 May 2019 11:00:09 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=403354 clean no 00:57:57 Katie Wells 252: How to Activate Peak Brain Performance With Neuroscientist Dr. Andrew Hillhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/peak-brain/ Mon, 29 Apr 2019 11:00:10 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402687 clean no 01:10:09 Katie Wells 251: Water Quality and How to Improve Drinking Water With Dr. Tom DiGiuseppehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/tom-digiuseppe/ Thu, 25 Apr 2019 11:00:47 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=403083 clean no 00:54:34 Katie Wells 250: Sustainable Fitness, Cork, and Benefits of Rolling With Addie Connerhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/addie-conner/ Mon, 22 Apr 2019 11:00:42 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402995 clean no 00:51:47 Katie Wells 249: How to Harness Energy & Create Success From the Inside Out With Suzy Batiz of Poo~Pourrihttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/poo-pourri/ Thu, 18 Apr 2019 11:00:38 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402831 clean no 00:54:55 Katie Wells 248: Alkaline and Ionized Water: Healthy or Hype? – With Thai Cabadoshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ionized-water/ Mon, 15 Apr 2019 11:00:58 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402806 clean no 00:43:59 Katie Wells 247: Vaccine Injuries, Autism, and Homeoprophylaxis With Dr. Jeff Knighthttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/jeff-knight/ Thu, 11 Apr 2019 11:00:54 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402742 clean no 00:48:57 Katie Wells 246: What Women Need to Know About Heart Health With Dr. Mark Menolascinohttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/menolascino/ Mon, 08 Apr 2019 11:00:16 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402705 clean no 00:52:44 Katie Wells 245: Ari Whitten on Fighting Fatigue and Anxiety With Sauna, Hormesis, NRF2 & Sun Exposurehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/fighting-fatigue/ Thu, 04 Apr 2019 11:00:54 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402627 clean no 01:08:59 Katie Wells 244: Debunking Probiotic Myths With Just Thrive Founder Tina Andersonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/just-thrive/ Mon, 01 Apr 2019 11:00:25 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402523 clean no 01:01:35 Katie Wells 243: Using an Adrenal ReCode to Calm the Nervous System With Christa Orecchiohttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/adrenal-recode/ Thu, 28 Mar 2019 11:00:59 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402404 clean no 00:56:54 Katie Wells 242: Fighting Thyroid Disease With Food & Recipes for Thyroid Health From Dr. Izabella Wentzhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/izabella-wentz/ Mon, 25 Mar 2019 11:00:48 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402293 clean no 00:55:13 Katie Wells 241: Biohacking for Moms, Anti-Aging & Raising Amazing Kids With Ben Greenfieldhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ben-greenfield/ Thu, 21 Mar 2019 11:00:20 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402190 clean no 00:54:43 Katie Wells 240: How Ethical Businesses Are Changing the World With Thrive Market Founder Nick Greenhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/nick-green/ Mon, 18 Mar 2019 11:00:25 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402087 clean no 00:59:15 Katie Wells 239: How Biological Medicine Is Changing Health (& How to Try It in Switzerland!)https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/robyn-openshaw/ Thu, 14 Mar 2019 11:00:12 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=402014 clean no 00:59:14 Katie Wells 238: Using Neuroplasticity to Rewire Nervous System or Brain Disorders With Carol Garner-Houstonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/carol-garner-houston/ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 11:00:19 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=401942 clean no 00:58:26 Katie Wells 237: World Travel With Kids, Worldschooling & Entrepreneurship With Wonderling Familyhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/wonderling-family/ Thu, 07 Mar 2019 11:00:36 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=401862 clean no 00:56:45 Katie Wells 236: Facts vs. Myths About Blue Zones & Ways to Increase Longevityhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/longevity/ Mon, 04 Mar 2019 11:00:37 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=401664 clean no 00:57:53 Katie Wells 235: Signs of Pelvic Floor Dysfunction & How to Stop Pelvic Pain Naturally With Isa Herrerahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/isa-herrera/ Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:00:16 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=401669 clean no 00:53:26 Katie Wells 234: The Keto-Green Way to Optimize Hormones & Libido With Dr. Anna Cabecahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/keto-green/ Mon, 25 Feb 2019 11:00:59 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=401612 clean no 00:55:54 Katie Wells 233: Decoding Childhood Allergies and Letting Kids Get Dirty With Dr. Amy Shahhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/amy-shah/ Thu, 21 Feb 2019 11:00:40 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=401470 clean no 00:55:09 Katie Wells 232: Lessons Learned From Finland: 8 Things We Can All Learnhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/finland/ Mon, 18 Feb 2019 11:00:05 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=401295 clean no 00:53:57 Katie Wells 231: Conquering & Avoiding Breast Cancer With the 7 Essentials System From Dr. Vhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/dr-v/ Thu, 14 Feb 2019 11:00:06 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=401241 clean no 00:54:13 Katie Wells 230: Chalene Johnson on How to Protect Your Mindset & Live a Balanced Lifehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/chalene-johnson/ Mon, 11 Feb 2019 11:00:31 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=401063 clean no 00:50:37 Katie Wells 229: How to Use Atomic Habits to Change Your Lifehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/atomic-habits/ Thu, 07 Feb 2019 11:00:57 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=401062 clean no 00:59:15 Katie Wells 228: Using Buddies in My Belly to Teach Kids About Healthhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/buddies-in-my-belly/ Mon, 04 Feb 2019 11:00:25 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=401016 clean no 00:49:16 Katie Wells 227: Using the Metabolism Reset Diet to Support Liver Healthhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/metabolism-reset-diet/ Thu, 31 Jan 2019 11:00:33 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=400874 clean no 00:58:58 Katie Wells 226: Science-Backed Reasons to Ditch the Pill (& What to Do Instead) With Dr. Jolene Brightenhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/jolene-brighten/ Mon, 28 Jan 2019 11:00:52 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=400730 clean no 01:02:33 Katie Wells 225: How a New SafetyPin Technology Can Keep Your Family Saferhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/safetypin/ Thu, 24 Jan 2019 11:00:47 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=400674 clean no 00:44:07 Katie Wells 224: How to Use Sound and Music to Optimize Focus and Sleep With Brain.fmhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/brain-fm/ Mon, 21 Jan 2019 11:00:33 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=400584 clean no 00:46:41 Katie Wells 223: Mindset for Moms – Tips to Get More Done & Stress Less This Yearhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/mindset-for-moms/ Thu, 17 Jan 2019 11:00:28 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=400426 clean no 00:54:19 Katie Wells 222: Why ButcherBox Is Bringing Back Grass-Fed Meat With Mike Salguerohttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/butcher-box/ Mon, 14 Jan 2019 11:00:33 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=400349 clean no 00:54:10 Katie Wells 221: Natural Movement, Sustainable Fitness, and Lifelong Health With Dr. Mark Cucuzzellahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/mark-cucuzzella/ Thu, 10 Jan 2019 11:00:39 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=398903 clean no 01:04:40 Katie Wells 220: The Most Effective Way to Use CBD (& Why So Many Don’t Work) With Ojai Energeticshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ojai-energetics/ Mon, 07 Jan 2019 11:00:37 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=398594 clean no 01:19:41 Katie Wells 219: Why Everything We Know About Probiotics Is Wrong & How to Stop Leaky Gut With Microbiologist Kiran Krishnanhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/kiran-krishnan/ Thu, 03 Jan 2019 11:00:37 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=398582 clean no 01:20:03 Katie Wells 218: Happy New Year: 21 Tiny Habits That Can Drastically Change Your Life This Yearhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/happy-new-year/ Mon, 31 Dec 2018 11:00:04 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=398260 clean no 00:32:50 Katie Wells 217: Do Saunas Work? Understanding the Benefits With Sunlighten Founder Connie Zackhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/sunlighten/ Thu, 27 Dec 2018 11:00:33 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=398259 clean no 01:00:31 Katie Wells 216: A Look Back: 9 Powerful Lessons I Learned the Hard Way This Yearhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/powerful-lessons/ Mon, 24 Dec 2018 11:00:50 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=398258 clean no 00:33:34 Katie Wells 215: Breaking Financial Stress to Create Wealth and Wellth for Life With Krisstina Wisehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/krisstina-wise/ Thu, 20 Dec 2018 13:52:29 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=398153 clean no 01:03:46 Katie Wells 214: Using Mindset and Personalization to Make Lifelong Health Changes With Dane Johnsonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/dane-johnson/ Mon, 17 Dec 2018 11:00:32 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=398086 clean no 01:00:14 Katie Wells 213: Making Food Allergy Prevention Easier With Ready, Set, Food!https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ready-set-food/ Thu, 13 Dec 2018 11:00:24 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=398029 clean no 01:01:24 Katie Wells 212: How to Release Cravings and Emotional Eating With EFThttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/emotional-eating/ Mon, 10 Dec 2018 11:00:47 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=397934 clean no 00:54:51 Katie Wells 211: How to Boost Your Adrenals and Cleanse Using Food With Dr. Alejandro Jungerhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/junger/ Thu, 06 Dec 2018 18:18:44 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=397813 clean no 00:51:00 Katie Wells 210: Why Most Detox Methods Are Dangerous & What to Do Instead With Dr. Shayne Morrishttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/shayne-morris/ Mon, 03 Dec 2018 11:00:38 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=397674 clean no 01:03:46 Katie Wells 209: Sun Protection and Anti-Aging From the Inside Out With Polypodium Leucotomoshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/polypodium-leucotomos/ Thu, 29 Nov 2018 14:26:45 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=397557 clean no 00:56:03 Katie Wells 208: Understanding Superbugs & Antibiotic Resistance With Marjory Wildcrafthttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/marjory-wildcraft/ Mon, 26 Nov 2018 11:00:54 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=397487 clean no 01:05:17 Katie Wells 207: Santa Sold Shrooms? The Untold Story of St. Nick (& How to Stay Healthy Over the Holidays) With Tero Isokauppilahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/santa-sold-shrooms/ Thu, 22 Nov 2018 11:00:47 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=396937 clean no 00:44:18 Katie Wells 206: Your Parenting Mojo on Why We Need to Let Our Kids Take More Riskshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/parenting-mojo/ Mon, 19 Nov 2018 11:00:33 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=396793 clean no 00:52:35 Katie Wells 205: Everything You Need to Know About GMOs, Glyphosate, and Gut Health With Dr. Zach Bushhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/zach-bush/ Thu, 15 Nov 2018 11:00:11 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=396788 clean no 01:05:06 Katie Wells 204: The Rise of Autoimmune Disease (& How to Thrive Even If You Have It) With Dr. Guillermo Ruizhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/guillermo-ruiz/ Mon, 12 Nov 2018 11:00:16 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=396734 clean no 01:03:39 Katie Wells 203: Hidden EMF Dangers and How to Mitigate Them With Geobiologist Brian Hoyerhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/brian-hoyer/ Thu, 08 Nov 2018 11:00:26 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=396559 clean no 00:51:51 Katie Wells 202: How Footwear Affects Posture, Alignment, & Movement With Gordon Hay From ALINEhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/aline/ Mon, 05 Nov 2018 11:00:57 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=396496 clean no 01:04:06 Katie Wells 201: Understanding Fasting & Keto for Women (Even During Pregnancy or Breastfeeding) + Instant Pot Tipshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/instant-pot-tips/ Thu, 01 Nov 2018 11:00:19 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=396264 clean no 00:54:03 Katie Wells 200: The Most Important Thing for Healthhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/200th-episode/ Mon, 29 Oct 2018 11:00:56 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=396165 clean no 01:02:39 Katie Wells 199: How Diet Directly Affects Mental Health With Autumn Smith of Paleovalleyhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/paleovalley/ Thu, 25 Oct 2018 11:00:41 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=395797 clean no 00:50:52 Katie Wells 198: How to Be Green Enough & Avoid the Worst Offenders in Your Home With Leah Segediehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/green-enough/ Mon, 22 Oct 2018 11:00:53 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=395795 clean no 00:58:31 Katie Wells 197: The Opposite of Being Spoiled: Raising Financially Responsible Kids With Ron Lieberhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ron-lieber/ Thu, 18 Oct 2018 11:00:09 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=395685 clean no 00:52:24 Katie Wells 196: How the Modern World Is Changing Our Hormones (& How to Create a Balance Plan)https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/balance-plan/ Mon, 15 Oct 2018 11:00:48 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=395620 clean no 00:59:22 Katie Wells 195: Saunacast: A Huge Announcement from Mommypotamus & Wellness Mamahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/mommypotamus/ Thu, 11 Oct 2018 12:38:54 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=395586 clean no 00:54:14 Katie Wells 194: Longevity, Autoimmunity, & Plant-Based Diets With Nora Gedgaudashttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/nora-gedgaudas/ Mon, 08 Oct 2018 11:00:20 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=395495 clean no 01:05:13 Katie Wells 193: How to Protect Your Family From the Rise of 5G & Other EMFshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/5g/ Thu, 04 Oct 2018 11:00:27 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=395354 clean no 00:57:12 Katie Wells 192: How to Avoid Rushing Woman Syndrome & Balance Hormones With Dr. Sonya Jensenhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/sonya-jensen/ Mon, 01 Oct 2018 11:00:40 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=395281 clean no 00:52:37 Katie Wells 191: Understanding How Gaming Disorder & Gaming Addiction Are Affecting Our Kidshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/gaming-disorder/ Thu, 27 Sep 2018 11:00:41 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=395222 clean no 01:17:02 Katie Wells 190: The Easiest Way to Track HRV, Sleep, and Movement With Oura Ringhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/oura-ring/ Mon, 24 Sep 2018 11:00:28 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=395164 clean no 00:58:18 Katie Wells 189: How Red Light Therapy or Photobiomodulation Works & How to Get the Benefits With Joovvhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/joovv/ Thu, 20 Sep 2018 04:52:52 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=387578 clean no 00:46:41 Katie Wells 188: Saunacast: How We Took Control of Our Healthcare and Insurance (& Saved Money)https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/saunacast-healthcare/ Mon, 17 Sep 2018 13:00:48 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=387539 clean no 00:35:31 Katie Wells 187: A Whole Life Challenge to Improve Your Life in Small Daily Stepshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/whole-life-challenge/ Thu, 13 Sep 2018 13:00:54 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=387441 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 186: Carnivore Diet, Ketosis, Macros, & Diet Variation With Dr. Anthony Gustinhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/carnivore-diet/ Mon, 10 Sep 2018 13:00:57 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=387397 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 185: How to Get Lab Tests at Home & Take Charge of Your Own Health With EverlyWellhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/everlywell/ Thu, 06 Sep 2018 13:00:38 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=387339 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 184: Meta Learning, Speed Reading, & How to Learn Faster With Jim Kwikhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/jim-kwik/ Mon, 03 Sep 2018 13:00:43 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=387322 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 183: Is Fluoride the Hidden Cause of Acne? (& What to Do About It)https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/acne-hidden-cause/ Thu, 30 Aug 2018 13:00:29 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=387229 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 182: Why You Need to Exercise Differently If You Have Autoimmune Disease (& How) With Autoimmune Stronghttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/autoimmune-strong/ Mon, 27 Aug 2018 13:00:12 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=387181 clean no 0:00 Katie Wells 181: How to Find Truly Natural & Non-Toxic Products With Marilee Nelsonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/natural-non-toxic-products/ Thu, 23 Aug 2018 13:00:14 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=386835 clean no 01:09:49 Katie Wells 180: How Hidden Elements in Your Home Affect Your Mood & Health With Branch Basics Founder Marilee Nelsonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/branch-basics/ Mon, 20 Aug 2018 13:00:09 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=386655 clean no 01:42:16 Katie Wells 179: Understanding DNA Damage & How to Reverse It With NanoVihttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/nanovi/ Thu, 16 Aug 2018 13:00:59 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=386026 clean no 00:48:28 Katie Wells 178: A Pediatrician Explains How EMF Kill Switches Can Protect Our Childrenhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/emf-kill-switch/ Mon, 13 Aug 2018 13:00:02 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=386291 clean no 00:58:38 Katie Wells 177: Why (Almost) Everything You Know About Dental Health Is Wrong With Periodontist Dr. Al Danenberghttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/dr-danenberg/ Thu, 09 Aug 2018 13:00:03 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=386021 clean no 01:04:01 Katie Wells 176: Heather Chauvin on Letting Go of Mom Guilt, Ending Tantrums, & Mindful Disciplinehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/heather-chauvin/ Mon, 06 Aug 2018 13:00:22 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=385810 clean no 00:53:23 Katie Wells 175: When Natural Doesn’t Mean Safe – Creating Non-Toxic Homes With Green Design Centerhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/green-design-center/ Mon, 30 Jul 2018 13:00:00 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=377911 clean no 00:56:46 Katie Wells 174: How to Save Money and Get Better Healthcare With SteadyMDhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/steadymd/ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 16:08:39 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=377816 clean no 00:57:25 Katie Wells 173: The Inflammation Model of Chronic Disease With Dr. Jaban Moorehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/jaban-moore/ Mon, 23 Jul 2018 13:00:44 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=377752 clean no 00:57:49 Katie Wells 172: How to Understand Your Genes to Personalize Your Diet With Nutrition Genomehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/nutrition-genome/ Mon, 16 Jul 2018 13:00:54 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=369313 clean no 00:52:13 Katie Wells 171: How to Keep Kids Water Safe With Tips From a Water Safety Instructorhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/keep-kids-water-safe/ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 13:00:52 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=369312 clean no 00:50:58 Katie Wells 170: Using Biological Medicine & Uncommon Therapies to Help With Chronic Conditionshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/biological-medicine/ Mon, 09 Jul 2018 13:00:45 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=369254 clean no 00:59:16 Katie Wells 169: From Advanced Stage Cancer to Remission in 7 Months on a Quest to Cure Cancerhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/quest-to-cure-cancer/ Mon, 02 Jul 2018 13:00:51 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=369185 clean no 01:12:09 Katie Wells 168: A Proactive Approach to Aging and Sexual Health and Wellness With HealthWellnessMDhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/healthwellnessmd/ Mon, 25 Jun 2018 13:00:17 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=369078 clean no 00:38:36 Katie Wells 167: Lessons We Can Learn from Europe and Natural Wineshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/europe/ Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:46:55 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=368999 clean no 00:45:52 Katie Wells 166: Understanding Autoimmunity & the Mind/Body Connection With Body Belief Author Aimee Raupphttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/body-belief/ Mon, 18 Jun 2018 13:00:32 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=368551 clean no 00:52:01 Katie Wells 165: How to Make Simple Green Smoothies a Daily Habit (Even on a Tight Budget!)https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/simple-green-smoothies/ Mon, 11 Jun 2018 13:00:35 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=368291 clean no 00:49:17 Katie Wells 164: Using Platelet-Rich Plasma Therapy & Sound Therapy to Improve Health With HealthGAINShttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/healthgains/ Mon, 04 Jun 2018 13:00:27 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=368233 clean no 00:42:45 Katie Wells 163: Fascinating Fungi & How to Use Medicinal Mushrooms With Tero Isokauppilahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/tero-isokauppila/ Mon, 28 May 2018 13:00:16 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=367953 clean no 00:57:20 Katie Wells 162: Meditation for Fidgety Skeptics – How to Be 10% Happierhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/meditation-for-fidgety-skeptics/ Mon, 21 May 2018 13:00:30 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=367615 clean no 00:38:21 Katie Wells 161: Helping Stop Sex Trafficking & Keeping Kids Safe With Operation Underground Railroadhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/operation-underground-railroad/ Mon, 14 May 2018 13:00:13 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=366946 clean no 00:48:18 Katie Wells 160: What the Heck Should I Actually Eat? With Dr. Mark Hymanhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/mark-hyman/ Mon, 07 May 2018 13:00:49 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=366434 clean no 00:50:44 Katie Wells 159: How Naveen Jain Plans to Fix Education, Make Disease Optional, & Land on the Moonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/naveen-jain/ Thu, 03 May 2018 13:00:18 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=358159 clean no 00:55:10 Katie Wells 158: How to Use Bee Products for Health & Save the Bees with Beekeeper’s Naturalshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/beekeepers-naturals/ Mon, 30 Apr 2018 13:00:16 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=357912 clean no 00:52:47 Katie Wells 157: How Music Like Wholetones Can Change the Brain and the Bodyhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/wholetones/ Thu, 26 Apr 2018 13:00:21 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=349307 clean no 00:58:04 Katie Wells 156: Natural Ways to Improve Skin With Andy Hnilo of Alitura Naturalshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/alitura-naturals/ Mon, 23 Apr 2018 13:00:56 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=349280 clean no 00:57:07 Katie Wells 155: Thriving With Food Allergies or Intolerance & Crushing Life With the Paleo Chefhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/paleo-chef/ Thu, 19 Apr 2018 13:00:19 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=348453 clean no 00:44:42 Katie Wells 154: Understanding and Mitigating EMFs in the Home With Peter Sierck From EMFRFhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/emfrf/ Mon, 16 Apr 2018 13:00:01 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=348450 clean no 00:58:25 Katie Wells 153: How Bioenergetics is Changing the Future of Health – With NES Health Founder Harry Masseyhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/nes-health/ Thu, 12 Apr 2018 13:00:36 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=348041 clean no 00:59:01 Katie Wells 152: Foods for Hormone Balance With Magdalena Wszelakihttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/magdalena-wszelaki/ Mon, 09 Apr 2018 13:00:33 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=347896 clean no 00:49:43 Katie Wells 151: How Brain Harmony is Improving Autism & Sensory Disordershttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/brain-harmony/ Thu, 05 Apr 2018 13:17:06 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=347651 clean no 00:57:53 Katie Wells 150: Debunking Myths About Gallbladder Disease With Deborah Graefer From Gallbladder Attackhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/gallbladder-attack/ Mon, 02 Apr 2018 13:00:43 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=347516 clean no 00:43:57 Katie Wells 149: Saunacast: Genetics, Personalized Medicine & Random Health Experimentshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/genetics-personalized-medicine/ Thu, 29 Mar 2018 13:00:59 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=347377 clean no 00:45:46 Katie Wells 148: Holistic Eye Care & Improving Eyesight Naturally with Dr. Bernehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/dr-berne/ Mon, 26 Mar 2018 13:00:30 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=347163 clean no 00:49:20 Katie Wells 147: Using Heart Rate Variability with HeartMath to Stop Stress & Improve Nervous System Healthhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/heartmath/ Thu, 22 Mar 2018 13:00:27 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=346547 clean no 00:45:01 Katie Wells 146: Is Chiropractic Safe and How to Detox Safely with Dr. Hardickhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/bj-hardick-chiropractic/ Mon, 19 Mar 2018 13:00:24 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=346529 clean no 01:09:15 Katie Wells 145: Algae: The Keto & Vegan Superfood with More Nutrients Than Veggies (& Where to Get It)https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/algae-energy/ Thu, 15 Mar 2018 13:00:11 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=346290 clean no 00:48:09 Katie Wells 144: What Breath Acetone Can Tell You About Fat Burning, Metabolism & Inflammationhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/levl-breath-acetone/ Mon, 12 Mar 2018 13:00:11 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=346184 clean no 00:43:44 Katie Wells 143: Thomas DeLauer on Reducing Inflammation, Curcumin, Keto for Women, & Easy Weight Losshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/thomas-delauer/ Thu, 08 Mar 2018 13:00:52 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=345969 clean no 00:57:53 Katie Wells 142: Is Adrenal Fatigue Real or Just Bad Science? With Ari Whittenhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ari-whitten/ Mon, 05 Mar 2018 13:00:48 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=345711 clean no 01:01:57 Katie Wells 141: How to Accept Yourself, Foster Community, & Be Unlimited with Dr. Mark Atkinsonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/be-unlimited/ Thu, 01 Mar 2018 13:00:04 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=345255 clean no 00:55:46 Katie Wells 140: How Stem Cells Are Helping People Recover from Injury and Avoid Surgeryhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/stem-cells/ Mon, 26 Feb 2018 13:00:09 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=345417 clean no 00:31:35 Katie Wells 139: Understanding Generational Toxins and Epigenetic Changes with Dr. Mindy Pelzhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/generational-toxins/ Thu, 22 Feb 2018 13:00:04 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=345234 clean no 00:53:23 Katie Wells 138: How to Use Specific & Targeted Essential Oil Blends to Support the Brain & Parasympathetic Nervous Systemhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/essential-oil-blends/ Mon, 19 Feb 2018 13:00:40 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=345045 clean no 00:42:23 Katie Wells 137: A Holistic Rx for Keeping Your Whole Family Healthy with Dr. Madiha Saeed, MDhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/holistic-rx/ Thu, 15 Feb 2018 13:00:57 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=344867 clean no 01:00:19 Katie Wells 136: How to Unzip Your Genes to Understand Your Health with Dr. Jennifer Stagghttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/unzip-genes/ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 13:00:37 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=344500 clean no 00:48:06 Katie Wells 135: Understanding Genetic Testing, Epigenetics & Genetic Polymorphisms with Dr. Ben Lynchhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ben-lynch/ Thu, 08 Feb 2018 13:00:18 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=344298 clean no 00:59:39 Katie Wells 134: Five Benefits of Fasting, Autophagy, Diet Variation & Cellular Healing with Dr. Daniel Pompahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/cellular-healing/ Mon, 05 Feb 2018 13:00:20 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=344259 clean no 00:58:37 Katie Wells 133: GMOs, Glyphosate, Organic Food & What’s Making Our Children Sickhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/glyphosate/ Thu, 01 Feb 2018 13:00:31 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=344029 clean no 01:01:11 Katie Wells 132: How to Use Cannabidiol or CBD for Sleep, Hormones, and Healthhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/cannabidiol/ Mon, 29 Jan 2018 13:00:56 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=343805 clean no 00:51:12 Katie Wells 131: Sourcing Sustainable Food & Healthy “Fast” Food with The Good Kitchenhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/good-kitchen/ Thu, 25 Jan 2018 13:00:58 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=343725 clean no 00:41:11 Katie Wells 130: Biohacking for Moms & Reversing Aging with Bulletproof’s Dave Aspreyhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/dave-asprey-biohacking/ Mon, 22 Jan 2018 13:00:21 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=343578 clean no 00:50:24 Katie Wells 129: Childhood Cancer: Avoidance, Treatment, & Understanding the Odds with My Kid Cures Cancerhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/childhood-cancer/ Thu, 18 Jan 2018 13:00:42 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=343456 clean no 00:51:00 Katie Wells 128: ADD, ADHD & Behavior Challenges with Psychologist and Nutritionist Dr. Nicole Beurkenshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/nicole-beurkens-adhd/ Mon, 15 Jan 2018 13:00:16 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=343352 clean no 00:56:15 Katie Wells 127: Using the Dental Diet to Reverse Dental Problems with Dr. Steven Linhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/dental-diet/ Thu, 11 Jan 2018 13:00:32 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=335368 clean no 00:54:27 Katie Wells 126: Dr. Marc Sklar on How to Beat Infertility and Get Pregnant Naturallyhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/marc-sklar/ Mon, 08 Jan 2018 13:00:41 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=335214 clean no 00:52:12 Katie Wells 125: Understanding Food Intolerance & Fighting for Your Family with JJ Virginhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/jj-virgin/ Thu, 04 Jan 2018 13:00:52 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=326964 clean no 00:57:43 Katie Wells 124: Happy New Year 2018! Setting Challenges + Experiments Instead of Resolutions (& Sneak Peek)https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/new-year/ Mon, 01 Jan 2018 13:00:51 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=326657 clean no 00:31:15 Katie Wells 123: Sharing Gratitude, Joy, and Christmas Family Traditionshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/christmas-family-traditions/ Mon, 25 Dec 2017 12:00:12 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=326531 clean no 00:19:17 Katie Wells 122: A Healthy Baby Is NOT the Only Thing That Matters (& Is Home Birth Safe?)https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/healthy-baby/ Mon, 18 Dec 2017 13:00:22 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=326429 clean no 01:03:38 Katie Wells 121: Cookware Problems: Understanding What’s Hiding in Most Cookwarehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/cookware-problems/ Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:00:26 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=326333 clean no 00:49:40 Katie Wells 120: A Real-Life Approach to Reducing EMFs with Dr. Libby Darnellhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/reducing-emfs/ Mon, 11 Dec 2017 13:00:18 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=326176 clean no 01:04:38 Katie Wells 119: Cyber Security Tips to Keep Your Family Safer Onlinehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/cyber-security-tips/ Thu, 07 Dec 2017 13:00:28 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=326057 clean no 00:43:05 Katie Wells 118: An At-Home Approach to Balancing Thyroid Hormones with McCall McPhersonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/balancing-thyroid-hormones/ Mon, 04 Dec 2017 13:00:36 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=325939 clean no 00:50:32 Katie Wells 117: Fitness at Any Age with Flipping 50s Debra Atkinsonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/debra-atkinson/ Mon, 27 Nov 2017 13:00:19 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=317807 clean no 00:55:43 Katie Wells 116: How to Reboot Your Metabolism Using the Keto Reset Diet With Mark Sissonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/keto-reset-diet/ Mon, 20 Nov 2017 13:00:10 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=317623 clean no 01:01:37 Katie Wells 115: Decoding Autoimmune Disease with Dr. Tom O’Bryanhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/autoimmune-disease-obryan/ Mon, 13 Nov 2017 13:00:58 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=302719 clean no 01:12:33 Katie Wells 114: Do We Need to Worry about Radiation and Mercury in Seafood?https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/mercury-in-seafood/ Mon, 06 Nov 2017 13:00:56 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=302520 clean no 00:44:17 Katie Wells 113: Toxic Metals That Cause Fatigue and How to Detox Themhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/detox-toxic-metals/ Mon, 30 Oct 2017 13:00:17 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=294700 clean no 00:49:01 Katie Wells 112: The Only 8 Ingredients Any Cook Needs with Food Scientist Ali Bouzarihttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/culinary-scientist-ali-bouzari/ Mon, 23 Oct 2017 13:00:41 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=286236 clean no 00:55:25 Katie Wells 111: Biohacking for Moms – Lessons From the Bulletproof Conferencehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/biohacking-for-moms/ Thu, 19 Oct 2017 13:00:49 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=286219 clean no 00:24:37 Katie Wells 110: How Vibrational Frequencies Affect Our Daily Liveshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/vibrational-frequencies/ Mon, 16 Oct 2017 13:00:45 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=286129 clean no 00:47:31 Katie Wells 109: Vaginal Health, Menopause, and Hormone Therapy With Dr. Anna Cabecahttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/vaginal-health-dr-anna-cabeca/ Mon, 09 Oct 2017 13:00:16 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=285815 clean no 00:51:02 Katie Wells 108: Why the Birth Control Pill Screws Up Hormones & What to Use Insteadhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/birth-control-pill-alternatives/ Mon, 02 Oct 2017 13:00:17 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=285679 clean no 00:41:29 Katie Wells 107: Improve Your Brain to Avoid Alzheimer’s, Dementia, & Memory Loss with Dr. Perlmutterhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/memory-loss-dr-perlmutter/ Mon, 25 Sep 2017 13:00:09 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=277896 clean no 00:56:19 Katie Wells 106: Why to Stop Doing Kegels & Squat Instead with Katy Bowmanhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/katy-bowman/ Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:00:41 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=277814 clean no 01:00:30 Katie Wells 105: How to Beat Anxiety and Resolve Panic Attacks with Targeted Amino Acidshttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/beat-anxiety/ Mon, 11 Sep 2017 13:00:26 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=270133 clean no 00:53:43 Katie Wells 104: Uncovering the Root Causes of PCOS, Endometriosis, and Morehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/pcos-root-cause/ Mon, 04 Sep 2017 13:00:35 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=269719 clean no 00:41:08 Katie Wells 103: A Professional Organizer Shares How to Beat Clutterhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/professional-organizer/ Thu, 31 Aug 2017 13:00:39 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=269664 clean no 00:53:49 Katie Wells 102: How to Stay Safe During Tick Season & Avoid Chronic Lyme Disease with Dr. Jay Davidsonhttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/chronic-lyme-disease/ Mon, 28 Aug 2017 13:00:39 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=269634 clean no 00:52:23 Katie Wells 101: Critical Thinking in a Social Media World (What You Didn’t Learn in History Class)https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/critical-thinking/ Thu, 24 Aug 2017 13:00:11 +0000 Katie Wells https://wellnessmama.com/?post_type=podcast&p=269557 clean no 00:54:28 Katie Wells 100: Your Questions Answered on Circumcision, Vaccines, CBD & Morehttps://wellnessmama.com/podcast/ama-vaccines-circumcision-cbd/ Mon, 21 Aug 2017 13:00:04 +0000