574: Gabby Bernstein on Happy Days: From Trauma to Freedom and Inner Peace

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Katie: Hello, and welcome to the “Wellness Mama Podcast.” I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and wellnesse.com, that’s wellness with an E on the end. That’s my personal care line. And I’m here today with Gabby Bernstein. And we’re talking about her new book, “Happy Days,” and specifically moving from trauma to freedom and inner peace. And I think this is a very timely conversation. We’ll talk about big T trauma versus little t trauma, why everyone has things that they can work through, and also why it’s so especially important for us as moms to work through our own struggles so that we can then pass on better tools to our children.

And you might be familiar with Gabby, for over 16 years, she’s been transforming lives, including her own. She’s the number one New York Times bestselling author of nine books, including “The Universe Has Your Back,” “Super Attractor, and now “Happy Days.” She also has a weekly podcast called “Dear Gabby,” where she talks about many of the topics we’ll talk about today. And she’s been featured in everything from Oprah’s “Super Soul Sunday” as a next-generation thought leader to news networks around the world, and “The New York Times” calls her a new role model.

She co-hosted the Guinness World Record largest guided meditation along with Deepak Chopra. And she appears regularly for her work specifically in this area. And in this episode, we get pretty deep and vulnerable. We’ll talk about what inspired this current book and her work? Why we have a tendency to minimize trauma or compare our trauma to other people’s trauma? How to use things like somatic therapies and something called IFS to process and release trauma? How trauma is the inability to be present, and how to move past that? What somatic experiencing therapy is and why it’s so helpful?

She gives practices to help regulate your nervous system if you’ve experienced some kind of traumatic event. She talks about her mental health first aid kit and how to use these tools. And then we really go deep on the topic of maternal mental health. And she gets very vulnerable on a couple of topics including medication for mental health, and pregnancy loss, and we go kind of deep on some of the topics around this. So, a vulnerable episode and one that I was excited to share after sharing my own experience with trauma and hearing from so many of you who had been through similar things. And I know that this is an area that’s very much topic of conversation right now, and I think she provides some really valuable and tangible tools. So, without any further wait, let’s join, Gabby Bernstein. Gabby, welcome. I’m so excited to chat with you. Thanks for being here.

Gabby: I am so happy to connect with you finally this way. And I also have to acknowledge that we have another guest in the room, which is my kitten, Jimmy Blue. She’s hanging out.

Katie: She’s adorable.

Gabby: You might hear her purring.

Katie: Perfect. Always love those kinds of guests. And we’re gonna get to go deep on your new book today, but briefly, before we do, I found out in researching you that you can ride a unicycle, and you might be the only guest I know of that can ride a unicycle. How did you get into that?

Gabby: When I was in elementary school, I signed myself up for a circus arts program, and I learned how to ride a unicycle. I learned how to juggle, I learned a lot of things, but the unicycle is the one that stuck. I literally have a unicycle in my garage. My son thinks that I’m the coolest person ever because I can ride a one-wheel bike, and, yeah, I’m a unicyclist.

Katie: That’s so cool, and juggling, which most of those are great for your brain. That’s awesome.

Gabby: The juggling, I’m not that great at, to be very honest.

Katie: Well, what you are great at, you have inspired hundreds of thousands of people with your work. And you have a new book that I got to read early, which is awesome. I would love to hear kind of the backstory, what inspired this book because you’ve written so much before, you’ve helped so many people. What inspired this one?

Gabby: I knew I needed to write this book in 2016. And at that stage in my life, I was already had written maybe half a dozen books and had built up, you know, a big career as a motivational speaker. And I was having a lot of success on the outside, but I was really falling apart on the inside. That inner meltdown was really a nervous breakdown. And I kept using the language of, “I’m cracking, I’m cracking,” and feeling like I was cracking into something. And I was just like saying, “I can’t go on like this. I can’t go on like this.” Finally, after several…almost a year of that breaking down, I had a dream. And in the dream, I remembered being sexually abused as a child. And then I saw myself as an adult confronting the abuse. And that was a memory that resurfaced through a dream.

And it was a dissociated memory that I had shut down for decades because the brain has a profound capacity to shut you down when it’s too overwhelming to our nervous system. And remembering that, explained a lot to me, explained to me why I had been a cocaine addict in my 20s. It explained to me why I was a workaholic, it explained to me why I had been pushing, and trying, and controlling, and just really living in such an extreme way. And in that period of time when I started to accept and recall this memory, I knew I needed to write about it, but I also knew that there was no way in hell I was gonna write about it until I was on the other side, until I had really, really guided myself fearlessly on the brave journey of undoing that trauma so I could be free in this present moment.

So that’s what I’ve been doing since 2016, has been on a very, very deep journey of undoing an extraordinary traumatic wound so that I can…I’m still working on it. Of course, I still have therapy. I just had therapy last night. But in this book, I share the journey of how to transcend trauma and return to inner peace and freedom. And truthfully, I didn’t know if I could get there. I really didn’t know. It was so, so scary. And it is… You know, now, I’m not in that fight/flight response anymore. I’m very at peace in my system. And I’m so proud that I could live to tell because everyone has trauma. Some of us have big T trauma like myself, you know, abuse, or alcoholic parent. Some of us have small T trauma, like being bullied, or told we’re not good enough by a teacher, or whatever. So we’ve all got it. It’s just the question of what are we gonna do with it.

Katie: This is why I was so excited to have you on for this conversation because I’ve shared on this podcast before, I had a similar trauma in high school, and I also kind of ignored it for a long time. I thought I was fine, and I realized I had actually just emotionally shut down, and I was existing entirely in that fight or flight state for well over a decade. And unpacking that was quite the journey. It is, as you said, quite the journey. And you mentioned the idea of like breaking, and I kind of held onto the Latin phrase “Solve et Coagula,” like, dissolve and reform because it almost does take a complete break, and then of reforming after something like that. And I’m glad that you also parsed out big T trauma and little T trauma because I think often when people hear of the big T trauma, they’ll discount, sometimes, things that aren’t that severe or think like, “Oh, well, something that bad didn’t happen to me.” And then they feel guilty for feeling like they are still working through trauma.

And what I realized in my own therapy journey is there were so many things from childhood that seemed, on paper, very insignificant, like they didn’t seem like they should be big trauma, but they had a very profound impact on my psyche, and I had to unpack some of those things just as much as I did the big T trauma. So I think that’s an important conversation, to not discount or compare levels of trauma because even something that seems small can have a very big impact, especially on a child. And since sharing that story myself, I’ve heard from, and I’m sure you as well, thousands and thousands of readers who have been through similar experiences or things that seem even unfathomable to me. And I’ve been on this journey of trying to connect my readers and listeners with as many tools as possible to help them work through their own journeys because it’s also individualized. So I’d love to hear kind of when writing this book, what are the key takeaways that you want readers to be able to have? I know you have a lot of really tangible, helpful tools in it as well, but what are some of those key takeaways that kind of are commonalities for everyone?

Gabby: Well, first, I wanna speak to what you just said, which is that we all have trauma and so many of us minimize it. And the minimizing of the trauma is a form of dissociation. It’s, “Oh, they had it worse than me.” Or, “I wasn’t this, so I’m not traumatized.” I can’t tell you how many people have interviewed me over the last two months for this book, and they’d be like, “Well, I didn’t have any trauma.” And like within 10 minutes of talking to them, they’re like, “My dad was an alcoholic, my mom left, she cheated on him. She made me tell him that she was cheating.” Like, these are big T traumas. And so many people go through life, just sort of overriding those storylines because there’s so much shame that’s behind them. The shame of feeling inadequate, the shame of feeling unlovable, the shame of feeling like I had to take care of my parents, the shame of feeling like I wasn’t good enough, or I…you know, because as a child, when things are not cared for in our internal system by the people that are supposed to care for us, we take on the burden.

So, living our lives from that state of burden creates a lot of nasty, negative habits, addiction, food addiction, love addiction, drug addiction, workaholism, controlling, raging. We build up all these different forms of running from fighting against that impermissible feeling that’s underneath it all. So, inside this book, “Happy Days: The Guided Path from Trauma to Profound Freedom and Inner Peace,” I share the journey that we have to go through of, first and foremost, recognizing, accepting, and compassionately, and with a lot of curiosity and compassion, acknowledging that things might be there that we didn’t ever wanna face. Then throughout the book, I take the reader on this beautiful path, guided path, of really recognizing my story and recognizing that my story is their story too, even if it’s not the exact same throughline… Excuse me, the throughline’s the same, even if it’s not the exact same story.

And inside my story, I share not only what I went through so that the person can raise their hand and say, “Oh my God, that sounds so familiar,” whether it’s like, you know, stress-related gastro issues, or having panic attacks, or depression, or living with addiction, whatever it might be, and then sharing how I got out. The methods that I share throughout this book are from some of the most spiritual and profound therapeutic processes. I really tap into somatic experiencing, which is all about body-based therapy, and I can share some of that with you today. I talk about Internal Family Systems therapy, otherwise known as IFS, which is about really establishing a relationship with our own internal parent so that we can soothe and care for our parts of ourselves, all the parts of ourselves. And I talk about EMDR, which is a gorgeous practice for really reprocessing the old memories that are so destructive in our internal system, the memories that keep us stuck in that fight/flight response.

And then I also share spiritual practices, prayers, meditations, and very practical methods that you can do right here, right now, to start to regulate your energy and your nervous system. So this is the best, most profound, most impactful book I’ve ever written. It’s my ninth book, and it is my prayer that every human who is suffering finds a copy of this book. Whether they find it on a subway, whether they’ll hear it here, whatever it is, I just want the book to be spread far and wide because it has the power to heal.

Katie: And I’m glad you mentioned that idea of people kind of getting stuck in those patterns. And I think even if you recognize that you’re stuck, it still is quite the process to get unstuck. And I’ve seen in myself and also in others that I’ve talked to kind of this idea that in the beginning, we kind of can latch our identity onto the trauma, and that’s a thing we can get stuck in. But then I also see people kind of get stuck in the recovery part, and then their identity becomes the recovery part. And it seems like it’s hard to move sometimes to the actually being free of that and the freedom side and the inner peace, and that seems like it can be such a big step. And I love that you also mentioned somatic-based therapies because these were really impactful for me. And I read years ago, “The Body Keeps the Score,” and it was the first time I really considered like, “Oh, trauma can have a physical expression in my body.” And until then, it was all kind of in my psyche and in my mind to deal with. And I think this is a really, really helpful and often not used enough modality. So can you kind of explain maybe some of the types of somatic therapies that are available and how they work so people who aren’t familiar can understand those?

Gabby: Well, I write specifically about SE, which is somatic experiencing therapy, which was founded by Peter Levine, very much featured in Bessel van der Kolk’s book that you mentioned, “Body Keeps the Score.” And the work of Peter Levine is when Peter defines trauma, he says trauma is the inability to be present. What happens when we become traumatized is not only are we having a brain response, but we’re having a somatic experience. We have a nervous system response. The fight/flight mechanism that we need to run from danger is the same fight/flight mechanism that occurs when we feel shame, when we feel bullied, when we feel unsafe in any way with a parent. You know, a parent doesn’t show up, that same fight/flight response will occur. And when we’re traumatized, we live stuck in that response. It gets activated, we go into that loop, we don’t get out. Activated trigger loop that we can’t get out.

So how could we be present if we’re constantly stuck in this loop of activation without any release? Through somatic experiencing, very slow body-based therapy that doesn’t actually have to focus on the storyline or the memories at all, but just focus on the physical experience and the physical sensations that you’re having in the present moment. You don’t have to even send yourself backward decades. It’s all still right here, it’s been carried with you forever by working through those physical experiences, by touching into the body, noticing the sensations, slow movement. And some of the practices, I can share with you even now. Even slowly regulating your nervous system is a somatic experiencing therapeutic practice. A heart hold, placing your hand on your heart and your hand on your belly, this is all in the book, and just breathing deeply with a big, deep belly breath while you hold your heart, that is a practice that can really ground you, settle your system, send a message to your brain that it’s safe to relax. Let the nervous system come to a place of ease, settle your body through breath and that hold, hand on the heart, hand on the belly.

Another example would be just relaxing your tongue. Try that right now. Just relax your tongue. Every listener listening, wherever you are, just relax your tongue and just breathe in and breathe out slowly. Breathe in and breathe out, relaxing your tongue, just noticing your jaw relax, and just notice everything settle. That practice has the power to just completely reorganize everything, relaxing your tongue. There’s so many more in the book.

Katie: And in the book, you mentioned what you call your mental health first aid kit, which I love because I think anything that’s affecting our nervous system this deeply is something that we should think about as severely as we would think about a broken bone or something that was really causing pain for us. And I think, often, like, it’s hard to realize those things can be very much equally problematic, if not… The emotional side could be even more so. So, talk about your mental health first aid kit and some of the tools that are in there.

Gabby: I think that the mental health part is more so problematic than a broken bone. A broken bone, we just are programmed to know how to heal it. We’re programmed to go to the doctor, put a cast on, stay off of it, tend to it, care for it. Our emotional well-being, we have not been taught to care for. We have not been given the tool book, the methods, even the permission to show up for it. And that’s what “Happy Days” does. It gives readers permission to show up for their mental health. And their mental health first aid kid is inside every single chapter of that book. It’s simple practices like tapping on your Gamut Point, which is this point on your hand right between your ring finger and your pinky finger, and just tapping there and just saying, “I am safe. I am safe. I am safe,” learning how to speak more compassionately towards yourself, just noticing what’s up for you, noticing what you’re feeling, and speaking back to that part of yourself with some compassion. There’s so many methods inside this book that are designed to help the reader begin to cultivate their own toolkit, that they can say, “Oh, that one really resonates with me,” or, “I loved that practice that Gabby did on the podcast,” or… And just start to develop these methods so that in the in-between time in life, you can honor your system.

Now, the next level is therapy. And I highly… Throughout the book, I’m just like, “Get a therapist, get a therapist.” Like, everybody deserves a therapist. And we need it. We really need it. We need the support. I’ve been with my therapist for over a decade. These days, there’s great, inexpensive online therapy, so many different resources out there. If you can’t afford a therapist, you know, I have a program that’s like, I’m your spiritual coach. I’m not one-on-one with anybody, but they get coaching from me every single week. Right? And so there’s a lot of ways in the world that you can get support, listening to this podcast, but the handholding and the guidance is very necessary for undoing the historical trauma.

Katie: Yeah. And the idea of learning to speak compassionately to yourself, I think is so key, and one that…you’re right, we’re not given the tools for this, and it’s often overlooked. And I think it’s probably one of the most impactful things that we can become aware of and that we can change. I know I was shocked when I started paying attention to the things I was saying to myself, but that I would never say to anyone else, and so, yeah, to my child or to a friend or someone I cared about. And even once I recognized it, it was quite the process to learn to repattern those things and to have love and compassion for myself. And I realized as a mom, that’s something I needed to do for myself so that I could model it for my kids. But then I also realized so much of the voice we have can become part of our children and their inner voice.

And so it became really important for me to make sure I very consciously did that because I wanted my kids to hopefully not have to go through quite the same process and uphill journey that I did as adults. And I know this is something that you also share very much a heart for. And the important… You mentioned IFS, and that kind of delves into some of those family dynamics and even like past dynamics. But I feel like moms, especially, we have such a unique and beautiful ability to kind of impact the tone of our whole household and our children, and to help form their voice going forward. So let’s talk a little bit about maternal mental health, and, as moms, what are some of the tools we can have that also we can give to our kids at a young age so that maybe they’re not the adults who are having to unpack quite so much?

Gabby: I appreciate you bringing up maternal mental health because that’s actually a whole chapter in the book. There’s a chapter in “Happy Days” called “Don’t Call Me Crazy.” And in that chapter, I share a very… probably one of the most difficult times of my life. Probably the most difficult time of my life, if you could believe it, which was postpartum depression, living through and surviving postpartum depression and postpartum insomnia and anxiety. I shared the journey I went on to get… First of all, the journey of just denying it for so long. You and I work in a space that’s wellness-oriented, Wellness Mama, right? It’s like we are committed to spiritual practices, wellness techniques, and tools, and supplements, and whatnot. And I exhausted all those options while I was having insomnia, panic attacks, agoraphobia, and suicidal ideation for months.

And in many ways, I let my wellness world that I had built up around me, I was brought up homeopathic, I’d never really taken any medication ever, I let that world hold me back from getting that real help I needed. And eventually, I was in such a dark, dark, dark state that my therapist had to intervene and get me to a psychiatrist. Finally, the psychiatrist diagnosed me in five minutes. “You have postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, which is another form of postpartum depression, and it’s manifesting in insomnia.” And she handed me a prescription for an antidepressant. And she said, “I know that you are really resisting this because, you know, the world that you’re in and everything, but you’ve built up a lot of beautiful foundation with your spiritual practice and your therapy. And this medication will give you a safer baseline to do the deeper trauma work.”

And that was what I needed to hear at that moment. I needed to hear like, “Okay, this isn’t just a bandaid. This is actually a solution.” And I never would’ve been gifted that solution and that ability to get to a baseline of safety to go deeper in my trauma work if it hadn’t been for that horrific experience. And I speak very publicly about this because when we talk about mental health, you cannot fucking leave out the conversation about medication, because there are instances in life when you are having a biochemical condition and you have to make sure you care for it. If we had a heart issue, we wouldn’t blink before taking some kind of blood thinner or whatever heart medication we needed to take. And so it’s important for me to speak up about this because, in many ways, I think I was part of the stigma.

You know, people would be in my audience and say, “I’m really depressed or I’m anxious.” And I’d say, “Oh, just do this meditation.” That works for general anxiety. But if you’re having a biochemical condition, that’s not gonna work. And so the answer should always be, “Try this meditation, try this heart hold, and maybe speak to a therapist and see if you need to speak to a psychiatrist.” Because God is in the medication, God is in the meditation, God is in the medication, God is in the supplements, it’s in all of it. And if we say that the guidance is not in that certain form, we could lose our lives over that. And that would’ve been the case for me. I was suicidal. So that medication saved my life, and it also gave me a really important message to share with the world, which is that, of course, with the balance and the right psychiatric diagnosis, we need to get the support that we need.

And so when it comes to maternal mental health, I’ve witnessed way too many women, friends, students deny themselves life because they were so taken down by the chemical response to their postpartum experience, and not facing the truth behind the illness, the mental illness that that is because of shame, because of stigma, because of just all the shit that we put on ourselves as wellness warriors, right? And they lose their hair, and they fall apart, and they lose all this weight, or they gain all this weight, and they lose their marriage, and they are suicidal, and they aren’t sleeping. And it’s just… It’s unacceptable to me. And so I am gonna speak loudly about what that journey is. I’m gonna continue to be extraordinarily vocal about what it means to live with and survive from postpartum depression and help women recognize it for themselves and give themselves permission to come out the other side. And the other thing that’s really important for your listeners is that you could be experiencing postpartum depression 2 years, 3 years, 4 years postpartum. You know, if you don’t nip it in the bud, you know, it can get worse, it can just linger. We also have trauma from the experience.

So, I thank you for allowing me to be that bold and blunt on this very influential platform for this conversation. And maternal mental health, it doesn’t just end at postpartum, it’s during your pregnancy, there’s so much happening from a biochemical perspective. Becoming a parent is a traumatizing event. It’s the most exciting, most nourishing moment, but it also activates our trauma. And in fact, I do remember you and I talking about this at some point. It’s coming back to me now. It completely activates our trauma. Whatever is unresolved from our childhood will be resurfaced when we have our own children. Period.

Katie: Absolutely. They’re such wonderful mirrors, but that then puts the responsibility on us to look in the mirror and to resolve those things we see in the mirror. And I’m glad you brought this up because I do think it is a hard conversation and that there’s a lot of stigma around it, like you said, and, unfortunately, it feels like a false dichotomy, that it doesn’t, in any way, have to be an either/or, it can very much be a both/and. And it seems like often this is a short-term solution that then the person can work past that doesn’t necessarily mean a lifetime of taking medication. There are times when it is, there’re times when it’s not. But to your point, I can think of times like, for instance, my… I was very into natural childbirth. All my kids were gonna be natural home births. And my third, I had placenta previa and a C-section saved my life. And it would’ve been crazy not to choose that and not accept it because we both would’ve died, but we don’t think of, in the mental health category, things in the same way.

Or when I had Hashimoto’s, I did all the natural stuff, and also I took thyroid medication until I got better, and then I was able to wean off of it. But I don’t think we give ourselves that same grace, maybe sometimes, in the mental health space. And to your point, I think it’s one of those very much, to use the cliche, putting on our own mask first. We can’t help our children if we’re not coming from a place of that bandwidth to be able to do it. And I know it’s so cliche to say, but the best gift we can give our children is ourselves being in a healthy, grounded place to be able to be a good parent for them.

Gabby: It’s the greatest gift we can give our children. Our children are constantly regulating based on our own nervous system. The more steady we are, the more steady they will be, and the more resilient they will be because they know that mom and dad equals a safe place. And that’s not just safe in that they get fed and they get a roof over their head and they’re not falling down the stairs, that’s safe and energetically safe. No one taught our parents how to create an energetic, safe place for our children. So it’s beautiful that that’s such a big conversation now. There’s another thing I wanna mention about maternal mental health, is living and surviving and moving through miscarriage, loss, the trauma of IVF, and what goes into that. And I think this is the platform to really go there. And I wanna give voice to it for all the mamas out there who may have unresolved trauma around that.

In 2020, when I was writing “Happy Days,” I was also doing IVF. The only place I was going was a fertility clinic. They did nine rounds of treatment to get one healthy embryo. And then I got pregnant with that beautiful boy embryo, who was tested, and he was healthy, and it was perfect. And my pregnancy was going along. I was really nauseous in the beginning and tough. By five and a half months, I was having that 20-week scan, and my son was not growing. He was in really bad shape. There’s no way he would’ve made it. By the grace of God, I did that around 20 weeks, 21 weeks. And at 22 weeks, I had to let him go, I had to do a D&E. And that experience of carrying a baby to a pretty far length, that baby that I worked really hard to conceive, really presented me with the power of my faith. After the initial shock and after going through the procedure, I was able to really witness my faith hold me like a pillow.

I said to myself, it’s like, “Okay, Gabby, this is what you’ve been training for for 16 years, to know that there is a higher plan, to understand that there is God in all of this, and to see the gift of allowing this child to know what it’s meant to be loved by you for five and a half months. To get to the place where I am now, where through a few other attempts at whatever, I’m in full acceptance that I’m the child of one beautiful mother of one beautiful child.” And that’s my… And a kitten. And that’s my job, and to be in full acceptance of that, and to recognize and see that there’s no way I would’ve been able to get to that conclusion if I hadn’t had all of this journey behind it.

So I really wanna speak to the mamas who’ve experienced any kind of fertility issues, treatment that didn’t work, treatment that traumatized them, miscarriage, and just say, God is in all of it. It’s not your plan, it’s God’s plan. It’s the plan of the baby, it’s the plan of the soul. It’s the plan of a higher purpose for you. And while it’s difficult to hear, there are great lessons in all of it. My son, Owen, that did not make it, is sort of like my safe word for when I’m sweating the small stuff. And I’ll be like, “Owen,” because we don’t have time to sweat the small stuff.

That was the greatest gift that he gave me. And he also gave me the gift of acceptance, that I’m meant to have this one beautiful child, and I’m meant to care for him with all of my heart, and I’m meant to also continue to birth many, many, many new ideas into the world in the way that I’m here to do that. And so sometimes we can’t get there on our own, but when we open up to a spiritual faith to guide us through this type of journey, it can be far more graceful. We can grieve with grace, we can heal with that faith, we can trust in a higher purpose. And I promise all these mamas listening, I’ll write you a book on this one day.

Katie: Yeah. I love that you’re using your platform and your voice for some of these really hard conversations. I’ve also experienced loss of a baby. And it is another thing there seems to be so much stigma around, and so much shame, and so much… But also something that we could benefit so much from being more open about, and talking about, and having support around, rather than shame around. And I love that you are opening the door for that. And there are so many other brave women I’ve seen online as well who are sharing their journey and their vulnerability with that. And I think the more we are able to do that, the more we can support each other and build community, and learn, hopefully, these lessons that are so hard to learn, but more easily.

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And you mentioned the words, creating an energetic, safe space, and how our parents often didn’t know how to do that. And I love, like you, that this is a conversation that’s being had now. What are some ways that we can do that in our own lives with our children to create that safe space and also to kind of cultivate resilience in them from a young age?

Gabby: We have to create this safe space for ourselves. Go read “Happy Days.” I’m saying that with full conviction, totally separating myself and my ego from the fact that I wrote it. That book will give you the guided path to undoing all the stuff that you do not wanna pass on to your child. At the end of the book, I have a whole chapter on reparenting yourself. That chapter is really taking all of the Dan Siegel method that I applied in my parenting and applying them to myself. I was realizing, “Wow, these methods work so well with my son. No one ever gave this to me.” And then I had this major aha moment, which is, “Wait, I can give this to me. I can give this to me.” And so I took those parenting methods of creating a safe, soothing, secure environment where you’re seen, and I started to buy that in my own life and become my own internal parent.

Studying Internal Family Systems therapy, it’s not about your family, it’s about your inner family, and becoming the parent to all of the parts of yourself that are activated, and fearful, and exiled. That, again, was another path to reparenting myself. You could do all the parenting work in the world and all the great parenting advice. And that’s a great thing. That’s a wonderful step because there’s no way you won’t begin to reflect on yourself if you do that. But you won’t be able to do it with grace and ease if you don’t do it on yourself first. “Happy Days” is the best parenting book I could give anyone because you have to reparent yourself first.

Katie: Yeah, this is, I feel, like a new concept, or at least it’s being talked about in a new way in this generation. And the idea…I read the book, “It Didn’t Start with You,” which talks about even like generational trauma and patterns and how these things can be passed on through families for generations. And it seems like this current generation, especially of moms, is the one that’s willing to step in and try to break that cycle, which is really, really beautiful and exciting to see, and gives me a lot of hope for our children’s generation and for our generation. And I think that there are so many…like to your point, there’s so many tools in the book. I really, really enjoyed reading it. And I think you put so much in one place, so I’ll make sure the link, of course, is in the show notes at wellnessmama.fm, but it’s also available everywhere books are sold. And I know you have a website as well, so I’ll link to that so people can find it. I know you have many, many resources there as well. And I also know how busy it is when you’re in book launch mode, and so I’ll respect your time today. But a couple of questions I love to ask toward the end of interviews, the first being if there are any books besides your own that have had a profound impact on your life, and if so, what they are and why?

Gabby: The book, “Living in the Light,” by Shakti Gawain was a really profound, impactful book for me. When I was writing my first book, “Add More Ing to Your Life,” I really didn’t know how to write a book. I was 28, I had no literary experience. And I read that book, “Living in the Light,” and it was profound how simple, yet so deeply spiritual it was. And that book not only gave me a spiritual awakening, but it also gave me permission to simplify the spiritual principles that were having such a profound impact on me. And that, in turn, became the way that I communicate and the way that I teach as a spiritual teacher, and the way that I’ve written in my nine books, and the way that I can be a translator for metaphysical principles.

Katie: And lastly, what parting advice do you wanna leave with the listeners today? It could be related to something we’ve already talked about, or entirely unrelated.

Gabby: Oh God, that’s a big loaded question. I have so much advice for people. I’ll give the advice from my son, Owen. Don’t sweat the small stuff. Just don’t sweat the small stuff.

Katie: Awesome. Well, I know how busy you are as a mom and in all the work that you do, so thank you so much for being here today and sharing so vulnerably from what were very painful experiences, and letting your vulnerability be hopefully a light to others on the same journey. I’m very deeply grateful for your work and for your time today.

Gabby: Thank you, my friend. Thank you.

Katie: And thanks, as always, to all of you for listening and sharing your most valuable resources, your time, your energy, and your attention with us today. We’re both so grateful that you did. And I hope that you’ll join me again on the next episode of “The Wellness Mama Podcast.”

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.