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Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.
This podcast is sponsored by Hiya Health. It’s a company that I love for my younger kids because typical children’s vitamins are basically candy and disguised. They’re filled with up to two teaspoons of sugar, unhealthy chemicals, or other gummy junk that I personally don’t want my kids to ever eat. And that’s why Hiya was created. It’s a pediatrician approved superpower chewable vitamin. Now, while most children’s vitamins contain sugar and they contribute to a variety of health issues, Hiya is made with zero sugar, zero gummy junk, doesn’t have the artificial colors, flavors, additives that we don’t know where they came from, but it tastes great and it’s perfect even for picky eaters.
Hiya is designed to fill the most common gaps in modern children’s diet to provide the full body nourishment that our kids need with a taste that they actually like. It’s formulated with the help of nutritional experts and it’s pressed with a blend of 12 organic fruits and vegetables, then supercharged with 15 essential vitamins and minerals, including Vitamin D, B12, C, zinc, and folate, as well as others to support our kids’ immune systems, their energy, their brain function, their mood, concentration, teeth, bones, and more. It’s also non-GMO, vegan, dairy-free, allergy-free, gelatin-free, nut-free, and free of everything else you can imagine. It’s designed for kids two and up and it’s sent straight to your door so parents have one less thing to worry about, which I appreciate. We’ve worked out a special deal with Hiya for their best-selling children’s vitamin. Receive 50% off your first order. To claim this deal, you must go to hiyahealth.com/wellnessmama. This deal is not available on their regular website, so make sure to go to hiyahealth.com/wellnessmama and get your kids the full body nourishment they know they need to grow into healthy adults.
This episode is brought to you by Dreamland Baby, which is found at dreamlandbabyco.com. Just a note, the code MAMA20 will save you 20% site-wide and get you free shipping. But if you’re not familiar with this company, I love their story. It started when the founder’s son, Luke, was six months old and still waking up every one and a half hours all night. And understandably, the parents were exhausted and desperate for sleep. And they discovered, by putting a heavy throw blanket on him, and it calmed him down, that the same thing that makes weighted blankets amazing for adults also makes them amazing for babies. But to be safe for babies, they realized he needed a wearable weighted sleep solution. And they made it their mission to develop that and make it available for other babies. They’ve now made a deal on Shark Tank, been featured in Forbes, and are sold at retailers all over the country. And they’re most proud to have helped over 500,000 families get more sleep. I love this because this is something that I’ve talked about from an adult perspective, how weighted blankets can help calm the nervous system and improve sleep. And this is now a safe baby option. So like I said, definitely check it out, especially if you have any little ones by going to dreamlandbabyco.com and use the code MAMA20 to save 20% site-wide and get free shipping.
Hello and welcome to the 10-year anniversary of the Wellness Mama podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and it has been such an honor to get to have these conversations and to share this space with you for the last 10 years. I cannot believe this is the 10-year birthday of this podcast and I’m so grateful for all of the incredible people I’ve gotten to have conversations with thanks to this podcast and for all of the amazing feedback I’ve gotten from you guys. It has been such a wild ride these last 10 years, and I wanted to do just a very brief short recap episode with some highlights, a little bit of then versus now, what’s changed over the last 10 years, both personally, professionally, in the health world, where I think we might be going in the next 10 years in the health and wellness world and so much more.
One question I have for you before I jump in would be, do you like this new shorter format with more episodes per week? Does that make it easier for your schedule for you to listen, or would you prefer to go back to fewer longer form episodes? I’d love your feedback. Feel free to leave a comment on the blog post for this podcast or reach out to me on Instagram and DM me, or I always love and so honored by your ratings and reviews. I do read every single one of those. So if you want to share feedback there, I would love to read it.
So a little bit of brief recap. Then versus now. So on a personal level, 10 years ago, I had one less child than I have now. I was looking through my photo memories and realized that 10 years ago, I got my nose pierced for the first time and got my first tattoo after thinking about it for a decade. And I now certainly have more than one tattoo. Ten years ago, my oldest child was seven. I can’t believe he turns 18 this year. And my youngest child is now eight years old, which is hard to fathom. And 10 years ago, my life was t-ball and martial arts with the kids. And now it is track and lifeguarding and tennis and gymnastics with the kids.
One thing that has been a constant is, of course, motherhood. But I feel like how I have, how I think about motherhood, how I act as a mother has shifted so much and that my kids are my greatest teachers in this lifetime by far. And I will speak more about this in the future, but, and the way I think about motherhood is shifting quite a lot. And while it’s always been my priority, I’m feeling the need to really have that reflect in how much time, I spend a lot of time with my kids, but I so much enjoy their ages right now and realize how little time I have left with some of them. And so they are becoming my absolute time priority in many ways, which may shift some things in Wellness Mama a decent amount. And I will keep you guys posted on that, but especially now being a single mom and being sort of the only parent with them most of the time. I really want to prioritize them and really save for these moments before they are grown. That statistic that we spend over 90% of the time we will ever spend with them before they turn 18 is really sobering. And I just want to make sure that I prioritize that while they’re still at home with me.
Also for me, 10 years ago, I was still trying to get a correct diagnosis for what I would later be told I had Hashimoto’s and now I no longer have. But I remember so much being in the thick of that and feeling that frustration and that helplessness of not being able to get answers, not knowing what was wrong and deeply knowing something was wrong. And quite the journey has been since then.
And also 10 years ago, I had just been to my first business and health conferences and found other people in the world who were on similar paths as I was. Also around that time, I sort of picked people that I knew on the Internet and decided that they were my people and my friends. And we formed what we call the Blogging Family Mastermind. Because many business events, they didn’t want you to bring your kids. And I even remember being at one and having a nursing baby and that not being okay, even though she was being very quiet. And that was sort of the inspiration for creating a mastermind where not just kids were okay, but they were actually required and welcomed. And so we met in various places, rented a huge house, and all of our families descended upon this one house for up to a week. All of the kids got to play. I think collectively at one point there were over 20 kids. And they built villages in the woods. They formed lifelong friendships. Now my oldest flies out of state multiple times per year to see his best friend who he met through this mastermind.
But for me, that was really the first understanding of how we know community is important. We know how vital it is, not just for physical health, but for mental and emotional health as well. And community doesn’t come as easily or naturally as perhaps it has throughout history. So I think we have to be very intentional about creating it. And so this was literally my first real try at doing that was picking people in the world who seemed aligned, who seemed like great people and just claiming them and saying, let’s create something together. And I think we can all do this in small ways, even with just people in our immediate proximity where we live, creating a community, whether it’s just potluck dinner parties or meeting up at the park or some in-person proximal community can make such a big difference. And I’m so grateful in hindsight that that formed. What’s even more amazing is that now most of us live in the same area, so we get to see each other much more often. We’ve built a literal kind of community here.
Also, 10 years ago, I was between 80 and 100 pounds heavier than I am now, depending on what time of the month it is for me. And at the time, that was in my mind, what probably took up the majority of my mental energy was, and now knowing it was somewhat related to the thyroid things that were going on at the time, but also really related to my inner mental and emotional state and how that was my body very much keeping me safe or what felt like safe at the time. And that became one of the most profound journeys of my life was unpacking that and making peace with myself from the inside out. It was a long journey and one that I’m very much still on, but it has very much expressed and shown in my physical body as I’ve resolved some of the things that were going on internally.
So many of you, if you followed for a while, have probably shared that journey with me. And through that process, I got to unravel not just mental and emotional trauma, but also stories I had about how if only I were a certain size, or if only I looked a certain way, then I would be happy. And realizing that the inverse was actually the case and that I could learn to cultivate not just happiness, which is sometimes more surface level, but peace and joy and bliss, no matter the physical state, no matter my external circumstances, and then see actually how that changed my physical body in ways that I could never have expected.
And ironically, that also means I, back then when I was almost a hundred pounds heavier, I was eating so little, I was depriving myself constantly. And I now eat more than double what I used to eat to continue to get leaner. I was probably less than half as strong as I am now back then. And that has been another beautiful journey is learning to cultivate physical strength. And I’ve had so many podcast guests that talk about the physical side of that and how muscle mass correlates to longevity very strongly. So this is very much a process I hope to continue and to get stronger in every decade of life.
And a very surface level small win for me is that I can now, as of very recently, do completely unassisted chin-ups, multiple of them. I had a story in my head for a long time that I couldn’t do those. And statistically, the average woman cannot even do one pull-up or chin-up. So that has been a big win. Seems like a very small thing, but it’s a very big win for me and something I’m enjoying.
Other small kind of surface level things are used to sunburn very easily because of the inflammation I had in my body. And now I prioritize light exposure actually as one of the core foundational aspects of health, not just from morning sunlight, which I’ve talked extensively about. And I can link to previous episodes on that. Morning sunlight, midday sunlight, watching the sunset whenever possible. Being very aware of my light environment in my home. But I would say sunlight is one of my biggest health hacks. And I’ve said it before, but I’ll repeat here, just in case you haven’t heard these episodes, that when we see the sunrise or the sunset, we are getting natural exposure to the same spectrum of red light that we pay so much money to buy red light panels to get in our home. And it’s available for free every day at sunrise and sunset. And I think that one of the most profound things we can do for our health is to get our biology in alignment with circadian biology, with the light environment of our planet.
And so whenever possible, we can watch the sunrise, watch the sunset, especially with gratitude, and then get that bright midday sunlight, even for just a few minutes. For all of the important signaling, electrical, chemical, biological signaling that happens so far beyond just vitamin D. That’s only one tiny little part of it. I’ve noticed profound changes even in my lab results from really prioritizing that.
Also, 10 years ago, I had not begun to delve into something I’ve now talked extensively about, which is the mental and emotional side of health. And I completely ignored these pieces personally for a very long time. And I tried to systematize and literally spreadsheet all the physical aspects of health. And while I do think those things are profoundly important, none of that worked to the degree that it could have until I also addressed the inner side. And I know you guys might be tired of hearing me talk about this, but it was so impactful for me. I feel like it can’t be ignored and it’s obviously going to look so different for all of us, but we even know from the science side now how nervous system health relates to so many aspects of physical health in really, really profound ways. And so I think to the degree that we can create safety in our bodies, in our environment, in our emotions, we see the benefits of that in our physical health in a deep way.
And also looking back through my photos from 10 years ago, I also remembered how deeply uncomfortable I felt and how deeply I felt the struggle of this kind of contrast inside of me of as I was delving into this research, trying to figure out what was wrong with me and wanting to share it because I was finding things that were helpful, I felt such deep imposter syndrome and so uncomfortable because I hadn’t yet figured it all out. And because my body didn’t reflect yet all the things that I was learning and how much mentally, how hard that was to be in health environments and not feel like I had all the health dialed in.
And a little bit more on the professional and the Wellness Mama side. I feel like I had a lot more of a fear mindset 10 years ago. And part of that was a reflection of where I was at the time as I was learning things that I wasn’t taught growing up or that aren’t at the time common in the health world, I felt the need to write about them in sensational terms. And so I wrote posts like how grains are killing you slowly or how plastic is poisoning the environment. And while there are certainly, I believe, elements of truth to that, I hope that my writing style and my mindset has shifted into still accomplishing the same results, but through focusing and choosing the good versus being afraid of the environment. And I think this is something I would most like to be part of shifting in the next 10 years of this podcast or the platform or wherever it goes. I think we are seeing this in a very large way right now but shifting away from fear of into a choosing of the good and focusing on the positive. I saw this in myself when it came to health and even diet, instead of being afraid of foods and trying to restrict myself to lose weight, I learned to embrace and now ask myself the question often, what would my body love? And I often get much better answers from that than I ever did from a spreadsheet or all of the double-blind placebo-controlled studies I ever read.
Also 10 years ago, I was just beginning to learn about the world of genetics and really targeted supplementation. It’s now something I have spent hundreds, if not thousands of hours researching and experimenting with on myself. And I think this is another thing that we might hopefully see a lot more of in the next 10 years is an understanding of really truly personalized health. We’re now starting to get access in a much less expensive way to data that can give us insight here. And I think we’re going to hopefully see this continue to grow and have greater access to it throughout time.
But back, I think all of that for me, 10 years ago, it was very focused on even in my writing and even in blog posts on Wellness Mama was avoiding the bad rather than building strong habits focused on the positive. And I now realize that for long-term health and for sticking to those things, coming from a place of choosing, whether it be choosing the most nourishing foods for my body rather than being worried about calories, whether it be choosing the sunlight rather than being afraid of whatever it may be, I think that’s just a much more empowering place to come from.
I also can admit 10 years ago, I worked way too much. And part of this was necessity. But part of this was also, as I found all this information, it felt so important to share it that I would often put my kids to bed at night, seven or eight o’clock at night, and then work for hours, well into the early hours of the morning, not get enough sleep, which is not good for health, of course. And I sacrifice sleep a whole lot. I don’t regret that because I do feel like that information was so important and it was such a valuable part of my journey. But I think now I would hopefully choose to have more balance in my approach to that. And sleep is one of the things I non-negotiably and extremely adamantly prioritize in today’s world.
I also feel like 10 years ago, Wellness Mama and my writing really reflected only the physical side of health and wellness. And I know you guys who have been with me for a while have sensed the shift and heard it in the podcast, writing more about the inner experience, the mental and emotional side as well. I know some people aren’t as much a fan of that shift and I have gotten some comments from people saying, you know, stick to the physical health side of the science. But I just feel like those pieces, those puzzle pieces are so intricately connected that I actually hope we see a more widespread understanding of the interconnectedness of all of the parts of the human experience outside of just physical health. I think we’ll see better results when that happens. And it doesn’t have to be from a spiritual or mystical viewpoint, but just an understanding that our nervous systems, our biology, everything is so intricately connected that I feel like this is the next realm of holistic and functional health and understanding is being able to integrate all of those parts. And I think there are some incredible voices that are really starting to do that. We’re having access in a way that we never have before, even in the language I hear from just moms nowadays and how differently we are parenting, how differently we are speaking to our children, and hopefully how differently we are speaking to ourselves.
In the future, in the next 10 years, I hope that we see an increase in these things I’ve talked about, the personalization in community. This is something I think we’ve lost to such a deep degree in the last few years with everything that happened in society. And I think it is so vital. You’ve heard me say before, I think this is the actual commonality of the blue zones is not what the exact amount of ounces of wine that they do or do not drink or the foods that they do or do not eat. It’s the fact that they do so much in community and they statistically have very strong relationships. I think this is something we have to be intentional about and actually create in today’s world often. And I think that is absolutely worth prioritizing.
I also recently was very influenced and deeply resonated with a podcast from Kelly Brogan on Reclamation Radio called Choosing Motherhood, which lines up very deeply with my experience right now of being a single mom and realizing that I have this very limited window with my children and prioritizing that as much as I can right now, not being interested in romantic partnerships or relationships at this point, but really focusing on community first and foremost with my kids and then with other people around us and supporting their communities as they go through the teenage years. And so that is, I would say my top priority right now. And that might shift how Wellness Mama works in the future for the next 10 years. We will see, cause I have exactly 10 years left of having children under 18.
But on the note of community, I haven’t talked about this very much publicly yet. So this will be the first time I really shared this, but I have been for the past six months, along with my kids and my local community working on opening an in-person place for community and wellness that will be called Cocoon, which is a little bit of a hat tip to the last few years as I went through some pretty intense emotional times. I said that I cocooned and I think there’s a beautiful metaphor there because a cocoon is actually the chrysalis phase of a moth, but it’s where a moth or butterfly transitions into the butterfly form from the larval form, which looks very much like a worm. And the cool part here is you maybe have seen these graphics going around that we think that they just go in there and become these beautiful butterflies or moths. But really, it’s a process of what probably feels like death, and they completely dissolve and then come back.
And so I wanted to create a space, especially after the loneliness of the last few years for so many people, an in-person place for community and connection and transformation. And so that is what Cocoon will be. And I’ll share more about it soon. But if you happen to be in North Florida at any point, please reach out to me on Instagram because I would love to have you drop by the community and say hi. Or if you live here, please absolutely reach out. And I’ll share more details as that becomes available. I will actually, after this podcast, be finishing up some final touches on a salt cave that’s being built over there. There’s a sauna, cold plunge, sound beds, biocharger, lymphatic, brain tap, so many things to really support and help. And then we’re going to do them all in community.
I also have a few more books that will be hopefully coming in the next few years, but those will come as they naturally come. I’m not going to effort those or take time away from my kids to write them, but I have a feeling that they will naturally emerge in the next few years.
When I think back to those questions they love to ask people when they graduate from high school or college or ask people later in life, what would you go back and tell your younger self? I feel like I could write an encyclopedia of things I wish I could go back and tell my younger self. And hopefully these are some things that my kids will have a more solid foundation on and they won’t have to go back and tell themselves. But I think things like light exposure and how critical that is for health that would top the list. That was what I was not as aware of 10 years ago, certainly. Even though I did spend time outside, there were so many ways I could have optimized that.
Also things like eating enough. I did not realize until years later how much I was chronically undereating for such a long time and how stressful that was for my body. So I would remind myself to try to overnourish myself to eat as many nutrients as possible to get enough protein to send my body safety signals that I was not in fact living through a famine, even though that’s likely what my body assumed for a lot of years.
I would remind myself to ruthlessly prioritize sleep, which I am shamelessly very high maintenance about these days. I absolutely love that I go to bed very early most days, like 9:30. And that my sleep environment is something I prioritize from a time perspective, from a budget perspective, and from just an environment perspective. I have the ChiliPad Docpro that keeps my bed cool. I have blackout curtains to keep the light correct. I have a Jaspr air filter, which is my new thing that I absolutely love. It makes amazing white noise and keeps the air super clean. I even now have an EMF canopy on my bed. But I feel like anything we can do to improve our sleep quality, since there’s no effort required once we’re going to sleep, has such a tremendous ROI. And 10 years ago, I wasn’t even getting enough sleep, much less good quality sleep. I think figuring out those few things earlier would have made a profound difference. Yet, I’m so grateful for the exact timing that worked out.
I would also, of course tell myself back then that as all the metaphors say, the magic you are seeking is in the cave that you are avoiding. And give myself some of the tools I now use for the inner work, for the mental and emotional health side, and for learning to slowly integrate all of those parts, which I think, again, is a lifelong journey. But I feel like I’ve at least begun at this point versus 10 years ago.
I would also tell myself, sometimes it’s subtractive, not additive. Maybe you don’t need to add more supplements to the spreadsheet. Maybe you don’t need to add more biohacking practices to your daily life. Maybe it’s letting go of the things that you don’t need. Maybe it’s letting go of the busyness and the stress and all of the things that you’re doing to an extreme degree. And maybe it’s going back to the simplicity of nature and sleep and community and people. I would say now that I realize the real 80-20, the real minimum effective dose, for us as human animals is light and sleep, dealing with stress, building community. And then only after those parts are dialed in are the nutrition and the supplements and the more targeted therapies are those effective.
I would also tell myself, me of 10 years ago, loved to use the phrase, you were made to do hard things. I said that even to my kids very often. And I still believe that. But as my close friend says, I think it also requires an additional statement now. It’s not that you were made to do hard things, but also that not everything has to be hard. That sometimes the answer might be more simple than you think. And that certainly, simple but not easy, was the case for me.
And I would also tell myself of 10 years ago, something that a recent podcast guest, I don’t know if it’s aired yet by the time this one airs, but Dr. Courtney Hunt, who I recommend following on Instagram, if you don’t already, she says all the time, she says, see yourself well. And 10 years ago, I was not doing that. I was so focused on all of the problems and that’s where my mental space lived. And I think there is tremendous help in seeing ourselves while not in a aspirational vision board kind of way, but in the experiential way of seeing in our inner experience what it would feel like to be well, especially what it would feel like to be well, and learning to get comfortable with that feeling as our bodies catch up with it.
I also wanted to do a brief recap of some episodes that I’ve especially enjoyed over these past now over 800 episodes, over 10 years. And this was super hard to even narrow down a little bit because there have been so many incredible guests and I’ve gotten to meet so many amazing people through this podcast. I actually, I would recommend all of the guests that I’ve gotten to interview. They’ve all been incredible, but some that I think especially would resonate in the way health is right now and that I would recommend especially, like I said, I don’t know if it’s aired yet, but my episodes with Dr. Courtney Hunt. I really enjoyed her perspective on things. She has a wonderful way of uniting science with experience, with practicality. And I will link to those if they are live. And if not, they will be coming soon. I’ll link to her Instagram as well.
I’ve also done a couple episodes with Mollie Eastman of Sleep is a Skill. And as I mentioned, sleep is such a high ROI thing. I think she has some incredible tips. She’s helped thousands of people improve their sleep dramatically. And even her own story of recovering from really severe insomnia. Her episodes were great. Matt Maruca, there was an episode hundreds of episodes ago about your light environment. I’ve talked about light quite a bit and I really recommend hs. I’ve also done several episodes with Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. I recommend those episodes and her book as well. She talks about something she calls muscle-centric medicines. So, she’s an MD, and she really recognizes the value of lean muscle mass for all aspects of health, especially as we get older. And this is why this is such a big focus for me. But the short version is the more lean muscle we have, the more protected we are from all-cause mortality, which means death from all causes. But even things like falls, which are more common as we get older, the more muscle you have, the more you are protected from those. Having muscle mass keeps our metabolism in a healthier place. It reduces the risk of a lot of the big killers and chronic diseases. And it’s something that statistically a lot of us as Americans are not doing phenomenal about. And so her episodes give some very practical tips that you can implement immediately from protein consumption to activity habits and so much more.
Episode 642 with The Holistic Psychologist. I love following her as well, and I’ll link to her. But she really delves into an evidence-backed approach to the mental and emotional side. And this is the work she does, and she has gotten very popular for good reason from all the work she does here, she also has a phenomenal book. And in that vein as well, episode 628 with Dr. Cassie Huckaby delves into the inner side as well. She has whole courses and a great mindset approach to that idea of see yourself well. And she really was influencing me in reframing the way I used my language and thought about and talked about even things like symptoms and diseases. And now I don’t even say I had Hashimoto’s. I like to say that was a word they gave me that I no longer have. Because that was certainly not me. And I was not Hashimoto’s. It was something my body was trying to tell me. And I finally very slowly learned to listen. And my body responded by resolving that thing that they called Hashimoto’s.
I’ve done multiple episodes with Jim Kwik, who is a dear personal friend, and I highly recommend his episodes. His is more on the mental side and learning, which I think is actually also a key to health, especially as we age. But his story is incredible, going from learning disabilities as a child to helping people and helping even actors and actresses, helping people around the world with memory and learning and speed reading. He is such an inspiring story, and I very much love his approach. My kids and I have done some of his courses actually as part of school on memory and speed reading, and I love his work.
Episode 590 with Dr. Andy Galpin was a fun one. He also talks about a lot of the physical health side and everything from hydration to building muscle and what the evidence says. And in our episode, we talk very specifically about for women. So some great takeaways in that one. I love to also talk about the education side. My apologies to anybody who’s waiting for me to release the curriculum on that. I am still working on that. It’s just been a wild couple of years for me. But episode 516 with Matt Beaudreau was incredible. He has some great tools that you can use before I release my curriculum or even after. His tools are phenomenal. He has great content he releases all the time related to that. And if you want a more personalized, in-depth look at that, there’s also an episode with Jesse Elder, who is another close friend of mine who has never stepped foot in a school in his entire life. He was not traditionally schooled. And he has had multiple successful businesses and has such a unique way of navigating life. So I recommend both of those as well.
And then additionally, the episode 360 with Byron Katie. Her work was instrumental for me in the beginning of learning to start to address the inner side, the emotional work, the mental side. And I love what she calls The Work, which she has handouts for that are available online. And she also, her books are phenomenal. So I recommend episode 360 with Byron Katie as well.
And like I said, I wanted to keep this short because I so much value your time, but I wanted to just do a brief recap of what a wild and amazing journey these last 10 years have been and tell you how grateful I am that you have gotten to share it with me. Whether you are new and this is our first time meeting, or you have been here since the beginning, which for this podcast is now 10 years ago, I am so deeply grateful for your time. I do not take it lightly that you’ve chosen to share your only non-renewable, most valuable resource with me. And I hope that you will continue to share time together. I would love to hear from you. I really do read every review and rating, and you can also message me directly. I love to hear from you and learn more about you. And I hope that you will continue this journey with me for the next 10 years, wherever that may take us.
But I would love to get to know more about you. So please leave a comment or rating or review or respond so that I can get to know you better. And as I always say, for this time and for all of these episodes over the last 10 years, thank you so, so much for sharing your most valuable assets with me. For your time, your energy, and your attention. I’m so deeply grateful and honored that you did. And I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the Wellness Mama podcast.
If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.
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