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Hello, and welcome to the Wellness Mama podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com, and this episode is all about the moon’s influence on your biology and the dark moon phase and how to benefit from it. And we hear a lot about the sun and how important it is for health, and today’s guest brings an amazing complementary perspective to this and shares the science and the data about how the moon really impacts our health as well. And I think for women, that sometimes we start to feel it a little bit intuitively because our monthly cycles can line up with the moon phases at times, but she explains how this actually is relevant to children, to postmenopausal women, and to men as well in this really fascinating conversation.
And Masami is a health-intuitive and a functional nutritional therapist who leads women in rediscovering the wisdom of their lunar cycles, especially beyond menopause, through a blend of Japanese medicine, science, and proven clinical modalities. And she works in both private and group classes and reveals the root causes of imbalance by using intuitive insights, clinical experience, and scientific analysis to provide her laser-pointed guidance. And she really focuses on a whole-person approach in translating the subtle language of our bodies into practical daily advice and tips that help people in any aspect of their health journey. She’s also just a very fascinating person. She was born in Japan to a bicultural family. And so, she draws from a blend of East Meets West culture, language, and energy medicine, as well as years of professional training and experience in functional nutritional therapy, yoga, positive neuroplasticity, and much more. She’s a fascinating guest. I cannot wait to share her with you now. So let’s join Masami Covey. Masami, welcome. Thank you so much for being here.
Masami: Thank you so much. I’ve been so excited to speak to you.
Katie: Oh, I’m excited too. And researching for this episode, I realized how much I’m going to get to learn from you today and hopefully all of our listeners as well because this is not something I’ve covered directly on this podcast, nor is it something I know a tremendous amount about. So I’m extremely excited to step into the childhood curiosity and learn from you about this today. I read a quote recently to sell your knowledge and purchase bewilderment. And I think this is going to be one of those amazing instances when I get to do that and to just learn from you.
And the first topic I’m really excited to talk to you about is essentially the moon’s influence on our biology. And I feel like this is something we’ve maybe become so disconnected from in the modern world that we’ve never even considered. And from researching you and all the work that you do, I know that it’s actually really far-reaching impact on our biology, but I don’t know the depths of that. So to start off for some basic understanding, can you walk us through the connection of the moon to our biology?
Masami: Yes, I will. And maybe before we dive into the science of it, and a lot of the studies are finally coming out, luckily, finally, I wanted to mention that, you know, when I was starting to get into this moon cycles and lunar cycles, but also it’s called circa lunar cycles. There’s so many more studies around circadian rhythm, as you know, and I’m sure you’ve interviewed many, many people about the importance of the sunlight and living with that kind of 24-hour cycles and things like that. But it is actually a lot harder to research the moon influences on our bodies. And a lot of the research, researchers are coming from more like countries that honor the lunar cycles as a calendar. So if you are just in the Gregorian calendar, which is really honoring the solar and the sun. And if you’re not used to the lunar solar calendars like I am, so I grew up in Japan. I was born and raised in Japan, right? And I lived part of my life in Korea as well. So I have a lot of influence from the lunar cycles. For me, it was an easy step forward to learn about the lunar cycles because I didn’t have this kind of a feeling of I don’t want to learn about this, it has nothing to do with me kind of idea. So that’s, I just wanted to set the stage that there is a such thing as cultural bias, I think, between studying only about the solar rhythms and not enough on the lunar, the moon influences. So, but that’s a challenge that I wanted to take on. And I have been studying a lot about how the moonlight, but also the moon’s gravitational forces that will impact our bodies.
And number one, I think it’s important and interesting. It’s like a, for me, it’s like, I wonder, you know, I do a lot of wonder, I wonder, and I get very curious. And that, that’s really good for the brain also, because when you’re curious, your amygdalas will start to calm down as well. So I’ve been wondering a lot. And one of the things that I wondered about is that lunar day cycles is about 24.8 hours and circadian rhythm is actually longer than 24 hours. So it’s about 24.5 hours is the kind of average circadian rhythm is. So I thought that was interesting that it’s not actually intrinsic circadian rhythm is not actually 24 hours, but it’s actually a little longer. So could this have some influence from the moon cycles? I’m just wondering at this point with this one.
And so let’s do dive in. What does the moon cycles and these lunar movements of the 29.5 days are doing to us. Number one, this is a study that’s been coming out more and more in the last, I would say, five years. So it’s been fun, but it’s the melatonin production. So melatonin production and the function of our pineal gland are in sync with the lunar rhythm. And melatonin content in the eyes were higher during the new moon compared to the full moon in various species. And it’s not just other like mammals or maybe other, you know, they’ve done a lot of studies on fish and ocean-based animals and species, but now the studies are coming out that this is also true for humans and all living creatures, plants, animals, even algae, they share the daily ebb and flow of melatonin. So dark and light. And, you know, it’s just kind of interesting to see that all of us are sharing this rhythm together, waxing and waning.
So let’s go into the melatonin level decrease during the full moon phase and how that’s going to impact all of us from young children to elderly, right? So indigenous, so I’m sorry, the word is basically the melatonin that you produce within yourself. The levels do lower near the full moon compared to the new moon. So like leading up to it three to five days prior to the full moon, the melatonin levels do go down. And that means that it is impacting all of us. But there’s this brand new study that came out last year that I was so excited about is that. It’s this circa lunar rhythm is impacting young children’s evening melatonin levels during and leading up to the full moon phase. And, you know, melatonin levels vary significantly across the lunar phases. But I think what’s important for all of us listeners to know is that lowest level of the melatonin is around leading to the full moon, right? And if it’s impacting even the young, young age group of kids, they’ve studied actually up to six-year-olds kids. And it was very much straightforward. Basically, the melatonin levels go down, and therefore kids sleeping less around that time. So I’m curious, you know, with you having six kids, like if you’ve ever experienced that, and I would love to hear that. I’ll just finish up on the melatonin a little bit.
But melatonin, as you know, it’s a natural hormone, but it’s also like a neurotransmitter like compounds that, you know, really, it’s made in your pineal gland, but also it’s converted from serotonin in the gut to melatonin also. And melatonin is so important for your gut healing for IBS or SIBO. It impacts your temperature, like a core temperature as well. And the cortisol level, it balances your cortisol level, blood pressure, moods, and brain health, and immune functions, and sexual function as well as we go into not just menopause, perimenopause, and postmenopause, but for kids that are going through their puberty too. So when the melatonin level is down, we can actually suffer and struggle with a lot of immune issues, gut pain, and cancer cells can actually grow during this time too. So, you know, I think it’s a nature’s perfect way of saying, okay, during the new moon, catch up to your sleep, even though catching up to sleep is a little bit tough. I think we do have this monthly cycles that the nature has been given us. Mother Nature said, okay, sleep a little bit more during the new moon, you know?
And so then I start thinking about if that is the true, rhythm of who we are, then maybe the school systems, maybe government, you know, maybe just the businesses, they all need to be looking at this as well, because it is impacting our melatonin, it’s impacting our sleep and our monthly sleep cycle is synchronized with the lunar phases regardless of your social, cultural or location background and where you live. So there are these really great studies are coming out that urban Seattle students, they study this with full on, you know, phone right by their faces and looking at the computers all night too. They studied the minimally electrified indigenous communities in the Northern Argentina. One had almost no artificial lighting. Maybe they used candles and the other one had just a one single source of light. And what they found is that leading up to the full moon, the drop of melatonin, but also the sleep qualities went down. And on average, people slept lot less like deep sleep decreased by 30% leading up to and during the full moon phase. So, you know, I think these are so interesting if you could really pay attention to it. And I’ll pause here, and I want to hear what your thoughts are. And then we can go from there too.
Katie: That’s interesting that you said that because I have noticed a difference in sleep with my kids, especially when they were babies and also with pets leading up to the full moon. And I’ve also noticed anecdotally in my own life is for a long time I know that I talk a lot about avoiding artificial light, especially at night. And so for a lot of years, that meant having blackout curtains and not having any light coming into my room. And now I’m grateful to live in an area where there’s very little artificial light outside because we live near the Gulf and to protect the turtle population. So we have amazing night skies, but it also means I don’t have to use blackout curtains as much to block artificial light from outdoors. And so I’ll often leave the curtains open and can feel that light from the moon. And so I love that you brought that up because I think it’s an important distinction of the difference of light exposure at night when it comes from the moon versus from artificial sources, just like blue light exposure from the sun during the day is different than blue light exposure from our phones at night. There’s a difference based on where it’s coming from.
And I don’t know if there’s data to back this up, but I’ve also noticed a different or noticed that my menstrual cycle has synced up to the moon since doing that. And that I tend to menstruate right around the full moon and to ovulate right around the new moon. And I don’t know if that’s a common thing, but I do know from being a doula and a student midwife that more babies tend to be born around the full moon as well. So I have a feeling there’s a deep hormone connection here, potentially that maybe we’re missing out on in the modern world.
Masami: Yeah, and if you do live in an urban setting and you want to start to synchronize your body a little bit better in your kid’s life, give it at least 90 days, you know, so three months. Just really work with it. Maybe expose yourself to the moonlight, moon gazing. You know, there are a lot of great practices out there, right? The moon bathing is a wonderful Ayurvedic practice that you go outside during the full moon period, and it actually expose your skin to that infrared light that is being reflected back to your body. So the moonlight is a lot less, obviously. It’s only about 15% of that strength during the full moon time of the sunlight, but it still can impact your easy water, you know, your structure water. So I think it’s really good that these ancient 5,000-year-old practices are actually proving to be true and being exposed to that moonlight that maybe you didn’t get enough sunlight during that week or something, you can actually go out there and enjoy. And I mean, just be naked if you can and, you know, enjoy the full exposure to the full moonlight. And that has been known in Ayurvedic community to lower your infections.
It can help you to smooth out your mood swings and things like that, too, because the full moon has been known to really kind of agitate people and make people a little bit more aggressive. And anxiety in children and adults can actually increase during the full moon cycle. And this is, yeah, this is a really interesting study because more people will, like psychiatric administration will go up, admission, I’m sorry, not administrations, but admissions will go up during the full moon and it’ll go down during the new moon, too. So what are we experiencing, right? This isn’t just about people with mental, maybe needing some mental help, but maybe to a smaller degree, it’s all happening to all of us. And the moods do get worse and anxiety really do increase during the full moon. This is a studied things. Then maybe as mothers and fathers and children and adults, we all need to be a little bit aware of it. And my clientele are mostly perimenopause, postmenopause, and menopausal women. But many of them are working with their grandkids. So maybe attending to the grandkids, they can learn that, wow, okay, this is the time that the kids are going to have a harder time going to bed early because the full moon, it just makes it a little less easy for them to go to bed. They don’t stay in bed as much. And the moods and aggression and maybe anxiety will go up. So you want to be a little bit more aware of that.
And during the full moon period, this is not just like folklore or something that your great-grandparents have taught you kind of thing. But the parasites and biological organisms have been known to get more active during the full moon period. So I would say three to four days prior to and then going into the full moon. And that’s around the time that the hormonal cycles really change as well. And this is when the testosterone for women and men will go up. Estrogen levels do go up. And those combinations can really impact not just your parasites, but things like viral expressions like herpes and things like that could come up and resurface again. So you want to maybe pay attention to some of these cycles, like get the calendar that says, okay, when’s the full moon? When’s the new moon?
And we do produce less melatonin, like I said, during the full moon period. But what’s interesting is the parasites really love serotonin and it can get stimulated. The parasites get really stimulated in their muscles and they can move around the bodies so easily or yeah, it’s an exciting time for the parasites and other organisms. So maybe this is when you want to work on up-leveling some of the immune supports, maybe work on not feeding your kids with too much sugar and address things like gut permeability issues and food cravings and things like that. And really know that you are part of this cycles.
And I often say to my clients that you wanna up your intake of hydrochloric acid, so betaine hydrochloric acid, so that to support the digestion. So you’re not eating really good, just wonderful foods and organic and then protein intake can go up during the full moon for postmenopausal and menopausal women. I like for them to eat more protein, but maybe the digestion gets a little bit slowed down around this time. So then upping that hydrochloric acid support can be really, really helpful and maybe digestive enzymes as well. And what’s great about what Mother Nature does for us is that as you’re heading towards waxing the light, this is when we tend to absorb the nutrients better. So maybe, you know, it’s just made perfectly. This is when we do need to support our nutritional intake and not doing the supplements every day the same, 29.5 days the same, taking the same thing all the time. But this might be a good time to say, hey, let’s up our some of the support in minerals. Maybe let’s up our zinc, maybe up our melatonin if you do take melatonin. But also like magnesium can be a really good thing to be taking around this time. Maybe much more than other phases of the moon.
Katie: That’s so fascinating, especially the idea of, I’ve actually had several podcast guests recommend HCL, especially in the modern world with our food supply in general, but it makes sense in light of everything you just explained, why you’d want to especially look at maybe HCL and magnesium at the time of the full moon, and/or for anyone who’s maybe having some of those issues consistently that you talked about, and that isn’t in sync with the moon in general, but maybe just has heightened estrogen or has things out of balance. I know those seem to be almost universally helpful supplements in general, and it is another reason I would put in the category. I have a rule with myself not to do anything every single day except for hopefully good sleep because I don’t want the body to ever totally adapt to something. And I think there’s a benefit. Nature is cyclical. Nature has rhythms. And so I think there’s wisdom in cycling the things that we do instead of becoming so regimented that we do the exact same thing every day. And as you just elaborated on, it’s also our bodies are not the exact same every day. They’re constantly shifting, and especially women’s bodies are shifting throughout the month. And in a similar timeline as the moon cycle. Is there anything scientific that you know of to back that link between women’s hormones, especially when they’re menstruating and the moon cycles?
Masami: Yes, I mean, they are. And, you know, we do want to go back to the melatonin as well, right? Because melatonin isn’t just a hormone, but it’s really a modulator for all your other hormones as well because it’s so tied to the gut, but also your pineal gland, right? So it’s like a control center really kicks in here too. And before I answer some of the hormonal things, it might be worth it and it is connected to the hormones as well as the glymphatic system, you know, the lymphatic system of the brain. So as we know that the poor sleep quality can lead to glymphatic system congestion, you know, because the glymphatic system is what helps us to remove metabolic waste and toxins and can lead to mood swings. If you’re not releasing the toxins, it can lead to congestions and compromised brain. So when you’re compromised in your brain, then it’s going to be impacting your hypothalamus, your pituitary. And like I said, pineal gland and all the other areas of the brain, then these toxic buildups within your central nervous system can really impact your hormonal balance as well.
So, you know, one of the things that I just want to give you a quick, maybe tool for the moms and, and grandmothers and, you know, fathers and grandfathers are listening to this, is that working on, I call it the mohawk line, which starts right, if you draw the line from your nose and go all the way up to your hairline, that’s where they imagine like your kid wants to have a mohawk, you know, when they’re younger, you know, I used to do that, but you’re going to massage the mohawk line all the way to the back of your neck. That can be, and then I imagine that I’m separating like an orange. So between the right hemisphere and the left hemisphere of my brain, I’m just going along this line of that ridge. That can be really important to do during the full moon but leading up to full moon. So the first quarter moon into the full moon, that kind of like a wonderful massage can be good.
And also if you are having sleep issues, you know, the sleep issue is going to impact your insulin. And insulin resistance is probably, I would say, one of the main reasons why we live in a society that we’re not hormonally very balanced anymore. You know, so I think it’s good to know that, okay, during the full moon period, that especially from the first quarter to the full moon, maybe my eating habits are going to change a little bit. And one night of sleep deprivation is going to increase your ghrelin. So it’s like a hunger hormones, right, that cannot regulate the leptin. So then that’s going to throw off your estrogen productions and progesterone productions and also even oxytocin.
So I will go into this right now. But one more maybe recommendation that I have for maybe young adults and all of us is that, and the little kids are probably going to have a hard time with this, but during the leading up to the full moon time, you may want to play around with sleeping on your sides a little bit more. So changing your pillows around that time and promote the side sleeping around that time, because then that’s going to help you to drain that glymphatic system and help you with it. And I also recommend that you do elevate the headboard side to about five inches, a little bit higher than the feet part. And that can play into supporting the glymphatic system, not just the full moon time, but, especially to support that all throughout the month.
And so when it comes to the hormones, yes, the estrogen appears to increase during the waxing moon cycle. So heading towards the full moon. And it’s also progesterone is interesting because as soon as you’re done with the full moon and give it about two to three days, then that’s when the progesterone appears to increase again during the waning moon cycles. So I use the cycles a lot to work with perimenopausal women who are starting to feel like their hormones are all getting a little bit wacky, but also menopausal period and postmenopausal women who have kind of lost up monthly, I mean, they have totally lost the menstruation cycles, but they’re really yearning to get back into the kind of the cycles again. And they’re all wanting to come back to how do I live with the moon? How do I live with knowing there’s these cycles in me? So what I teach them is that there’s this tendencies for estrogens to increase going up into waxing moon into the full moon. So this is when you might want to support your estrogen by giving yourself certain supplements. You know, maybe I do oil cycling. So using like evening primrose oil can be really helpful for supporting the natural production of your estrogen endogenous. That’s the word that the early on I was tripping over my own tongue, but endogenous production of your estrogen can be really helpful.
Also certain teas and maybe helping prior to that. The second week of the leading to the full moon support your liver a little bit. So your xenoestrogen can clear out a little bit. So from the new moon to the first quarter support your liver, maybe doing milk thistle tea. Maybe doing dandelion tea, maybe doing some other Ayurvedic herbs to help the liver detoxification can be really set the stage to help your endogenous production of estrogen leading to the full moon and also using things like flaxseed capsules. So I’m not a huge fan of flaxseed oils much anymore, unless you’re using it, maybe topically kind of a thing, but even that they do oxidize very quickly. So I do like the capsule forms, dark capsules. And what you want to do with evening primrose oil and flaxseed oil is the bite the capsules in your mouth because your saliva is the first line of starting to the digestion of fats because lipase is actually produced in your saliva, in your mouth. So maybe do something like that to support the estrogen.
In a progesterone period of time, I like using blackcurrant seed oil and also doing things like a sunflower oil. That can be really good, but I do recommend that you look for cold-pressed that come in capsules, so they’re not oxidized. And I like to support progesterone. Like I usually wait about three to five days after the full moon to begin to support the progesterone production. And this is when you can do like certain teas, like hibiscus tea can be really good. Passionflower tea can be good. And I’m gonna correct myself there, but the hibiscus tea is actually better for the estrogen production. So you might wanna use that kind of a tea. You could actually put it out in the sun and make a sun tea with hibiscus during that estrogen period to support your young women and also grandparents, grandmothers.
Katie: Oh, so many more directions I want to go with you on this because it’s so fascinating. And I feel like even just mentioning cycling, the oils and the teas and the herbs, I feel like another thing we’ve moved away from in the modern world is the power of certain natural substances like that and how much they can actually really support the body. And if we think about it, many pharmaceuticals are derived from plants, from flowers, from herbs, and we consider those very powerful, but we’ve missed the natural version of those that still exist and how profoundly they can really impact our hormones as well as you mentioned melatonin several times. I’m curious if you have any tips for supporting the body’s melatonin cycles naturally for people who don’t want to take exogenous melatonin but want to make sure that their rhythms are strong.
Masami: Well, melatonin, as you probably know, is the darkness essence basically. So really enjoying the dark moon period to support that production of melatonin is going to be helpful. And I also, you know, I used to stress about the fact that I wasn’t sleeping as long or my dreams were a lot more vivid during the full moon period, but I have actually relaxed into that nature cycles. You know, this is just the natural things. And so, I do use the darkening curtains and maybe eye masks and things like that. But perhaps, you know, knowing that this is just a part of it, because no, the studies are basically showing that it really doesn’t matter whether you live in a part of the world that is completely dark, or you live in an urban setting, the lunar cycles are impacting our melatonin productions no matter what.
So as I started to kind of relax, I started to enjoy my vivid dreams. And, you know, what the dream are teaching me and the nighttime kind of experiences a little bit more, and I stopped worrying about it. And I started to promote a little bit more, maybe naps during the time that you’re leading up to the full moon. So this may not necessarily help you with the melatonin productions but instead of fighting, and to make sure you have enough melatonin, you know, 365 days a year kind of a thing, I like the living with ebb and flow a little bit more.
And some other, you know, recommendations for producing melatonin, obviously, is to make sure you’re exposing your forehead, especially right around, and we call it the third eye in the yogic world, but to the sunlight first thing in the morning, that’s very important, exposing your skin to the sunlight, very important, and really learning to enjoy the darkening.
So this is when my husband used to take his kids, when he was a little bit teaching at a school on these dark moon night walks. So he will take them up to the, to maybe camp out for three days. He worked for the independent school, so they can do these things kind of thing, and learn to feel safe in the dark. And does that really help with the melatonin productions? Maybe there isn’t like a quite the exact correlation between walking in the dark and enjoying the, the moon and what the dark skies are teaching us. But I think that when you feel safe in the dark, these hormones can balance themselves much, much better. So, you know, doing the night walk with your kids, or maybe you take your flashlight with you, but at some point, see if you could just stand there, give it giving your eyes a little bit of time to readjust to that darkness. And that also has a beautiful way of learning how to balance your boundaries as well. And because you begin to explore your own personal boundaries in that darkness. And I find that very, very helpful for kids and for adults as well, that they have forgotten what it is to enjoy the darkness. And I think we can build much more inner trust by exploring that. Those are some of the ways that you can learn to increase your melatonin during the dark moon period and really honor that time because you’re going to need it. You’re going to need some reserves of melatonin that you need to tap into as you head to the full moon.
Katie: I love the way you framed that and the reminder to embrace the rhythms of nature and not feel like we need to control everything to be exactly the same at all times. And hearing about the three days of camping reminded me of the camping study, which is talked about a lot now, but how even just a few days spent in nature with the natural light cycles had a really amazing impact on the circadian rhythm and the production of certain hormones and on deep sleep and how even people with chronic sleep issues seem to equalize quite a lot from just a few days in nature, which is, again, just a reminder how maybe we’ve become disconnected from nature in the modern world and how often getting back to nature or creating more of that environment of nature within our homes can really help our body to do what it needs to do naturally, which it sounds like you find a lot in your work as well. Our bodies want to live in nature, live in unison with nature and to live in unison with these rhythms. And it’s just there’s a lot of competing factors in the modern world that make it harder than it might have been for our ancestors long ago.
And I know we’re going to get to do another episode and go deeper on this topic. But before we end for today, can you let people know where they can find you to keep learning? Because I know you do this work one on one, but you also have a tremendous amount of resources available for people to keep learning.
Masami: Yes, so you can go to masamicovey.com. And also I post a lot of videos on YouTube under the same name, Masami Covey. So you can look that up. And I do a lot of workshops these days as well. So you can join a menopausal group or postmenopausal group and do these cycles together. And I think doing it for not just one month, but doing it for 90 days, three months, can make a huge difference for all of us.
Katie: I will make sure those links are included as well. And I love the photo behind you for anybody who’s not watching on video, a beautiful photo of the moon and a woman and that kind of balance and interaction between the two. That’s absolutely gorgeous. And I’m excited to learn from you again in our next episode. But for today, thank you so much for your time and for everything that you’ve shared. And thank you for listening and sharing your time with us today. And I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the Wellness Mama Podcast.
If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.
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