767: Lunar Rhythms and Women’s Health (Menopause and Postmenopause) With Masami Covey

Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.

Hello and welcome to the Wellness Mama podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and I’m back for round two with Masami Covey, who is a health-intuitive and functional nutritional therapist who leads women in rediscovering the wisdom of the lunar cycles, which we talk about in this episode and especially beyond menopause through a blend of Japanese medicine, science, and clinical modalities. And she works in both private sessions and group classes to reveal the root causes of imbalance by using her intuitive insights, clinical experience, and scientific analysis. She also was born and raised in Japan in a bicultural family and has a really unique East meets West perspective in the work that she does. And you’ll see that in this fascinating episode that really talks about lunar rhythms and women’s health. It’s especially menopause and post-menopause, but also how this relates to children, men, and menstruating women as well. So let’s jump in and learn. Welcome back. Thanks for being here again. I’m so excited to learn more from you.

Masami: Thank you. I’m excited to keep going with this wonderful topic.

Katie: And for anybody who hasn’t listened, I highly recommend our first episode as well, where we establish a lot of the background for some of the topics we’re talking about today. And in this episode, I’m excited to dive a little deeper into sort of practical ways we can really learn to get more in tune with the lunar cycles. Because as you said in the first episode, a lot of us are maybe more aware of the solar impact of light. And thankfully, a lot of people are now aware of how important morning sunlight is, for instance, or how much we need the sun in general. But I love that you bring so much information and awareness to the lunar cycles as well, which I feel like are just not as well understood, at least in the US, like you mentioned in the first episode. So to build on what we talked about in our first episode together, I would love to just touch on a little bit more of the hormone aspect. And especially for the women listening, if there’s any differences or similarities to be aware of, or maybe children who haven’t gone through puberty yet versus women who are menstruating versus women in the perimenopause and postmenopause ages.

Masami: Yeah, so, you know, I think the rule of thumb is that we do have these cycles. And as we are adding more light to the moon, so the waxing moon, there is this like a buildup of more energy. More of like wanting to be exploring the outside world and things like that. And there’s a connection to estrogen buildup in that because estrogen is like, let’s get creative and let’s be outwardly expressive. Estrogen is what builds up the confidence and estrogen is built is, you know, really connected to building up who you are as an expression outwardly. So there is that connection, no matter what age you are, whether you are not menstruating or whether you are in postmenopause or, you know, you’re in the menstrual cycles, be aware that as we are adding more light to the moon, you’re going to have this tendencies to want to explore the outside world.

And this is when the oxytocin is fluctuating too, but the oxytocin will lead like build up leading up to the full moon. So we do produce more oxytocin from the first quarter moon to the full moon. So that’s really interesting, right? That when that happens, you might become with the oxytocin building up and estrogen and the moon starting to light up, we might want to become a little more social and you want to engage more with the one another in the groups. And it’s a good time to maybe engage with your kids, especially teenagers that say, mom, don’t talk to me, you know, or they have other things that they want to do much rather. Might be, this is a good time, especially from the first quarter moon to the full moon. This could be the time that the, maybe your daughter’s like interested in talking to you, or maybe your teenage son’s going to come to the kitchen and say, hey, what are you making? You know? And then you might find yourself a little bit perplexed because like last week, this kid was not interested in speaking to you whatsoever.

But you know, as the oxytocin goes up, the estrogen is going up in boys and girls. I mean, we are producing, we are producing estrogen all throughout our lives anyway. So there’s that maybe encourage ourselves and kids in the community to be kind to others. Maybe outwardly doing things, sharing compliments with one another. Maybe this is the time that you can cook together. And, you know, obviously having little more connections, physical connections, because you’re going to want to hug people. This is when you want to be with your pets and things like that.

But the opposite is true. Also, the significant decrease on the production of oxytocin happens from little after full moon and leading up to the new moon, maybe a little before new moon. That last period of the new moon is also called the dark moon period. So it’s a little bit different at that time. But let’s say right after the full moon into third quarter moon area that time, when the progesterone tends to be up, you want to remember, and then progesterone production does decrease as we get older. But I also encourage the postmenopausal women to know that you’re still producing these hormones. So don’t abandon them and still continue to support that as if you are having these productions, it might be a little less for certain ages, a little bit more for others.

But progesterone is in general, I call them the Zen garden hormones. So it makes you kind of calm. You know, I’m from Japan. So I always think of a Zen garden and that sipping on a little bit of tea, that’s kind of thing. And that’s not the time that I want to be doing a bunch of outwardly things. But you know, school systems, the government, the businesses, we don’t really live with this ebb and flow. So you might struggle a little bit during this time that you’re asked to do presentations, you’re asked to be on the committee where you are with other people, but make sure that this is the time that you create some self-acknowledgements. And then during the waning phase of the moon, do a little bit more of a self-love practice. That might be different from person to person, but this is a great time to incorporate a little bit more of like taking baths, you know, in really clean water and adding a little bit of magnesium flakes or Epsom salts, or even maybe some essential oils to kind of create that self-love.

And during this time, I see it pretty much all across the board, maybe not with a very, very young kids because they are still, they do produce a lot of progesterone. So that’s why they sleep a lot, right? But this is the time in when you’re waning the moon. This is when our bodies get a little bit drier. So you might experience like drier eyes, drier hair, drier skin. So this is when you might want to add a little bit of oils as part of your routine and putting oils like sesame oils, wonderful. It’s a neutral oil in Ayurvedic studies. So in some of you may not know Ayurveda very well, but we have these things called doshas, which are body constitution. So we have different expressions of our bodies, but sesame oil can be a very neutral oil for everybody to use. So you can massage the bottom of your feet with it, maybe your belly area with it. And, you know, I encourage all of us when the moon is waning and the progesterone production is actually going up to do some Zen-like things, maybe a little more sitting down meditations. Maybe this is not the time to be doing walking meditations and, you know, maybe group meditations, but it’s something that gives you relaxations. It could be listening to music that soothes you. Maybe spend some time cooking nourishing foods for yourself.

And this is the time that all of us kind of want comfort foods, just so you’re aware. So be okay with that. You know, if you or your kids or your family members like, mom, please make me some gluten free, you know, macaroni and cheese. You know what? Maybe that’s okay during this time. And because you’re going to need that fuel to sleep through the night a little bit longer because you’re going to be sleeping a little bit longer during this waning moon period.

So, and know that oxytocin has a very short life and oxytocin really is important for balancing your cortisol. And your insulin level as well. And I said it earlier, but that’s going to also help with your hormone balances. I mean, sex hormones that we’re talking about. So make sure that you know how to replenish your short life oxytocin at a different moon phases. And to, you know, summarize, go out and explore and be more social as the light is increasing on the moon. And maybe as the light is decreasing, you still need oxytocin for balancing of your hormones. Then maybe encourage yourself to do things that are more inwardly reflective. And that goes into, you know, heading into the dark moon. We really need to change our behaviors. I do think that if you’re homeschooling moms during the dark moon phase, which is about the last week before you head to the new moon really emphasize like reviewing what the kids learned and maybe remembering certain things, talk about memories and have some reflective time. So I can say more there, but I will pause for a moment.

Katie: So many cool tips that you brought up in that. And I love the recommendation of sesame oil for the skin. I’ll say that I keep it actually in my shower as well to use for oil pulling when I’m in the shower because it’s a neutral oil. And I believe there’s benefits to that in other traditions as well. I also love that the way you tied this in and the hormones changing that, you know, there’s a lot of talk of women’s monthly cycles and them being on a more monthly sort of cyclical basis and the hormones that go up and down throughout the course of a month. And I feel like guys are often kind of overlooked in this or they’re talked about just the 24-hour hormone cycle for men with cortisol. But when you’re explaining this about the moon, I realized maybe the guys are done a disservice here because if they’re living in the world with the moon as well, so they’re also having these monthly rhythms, even if it’s not tied into a menstrual cycle, they’re still experiencing shifts related to the moon. And so I feel like that’s a great thing that we probably often overlook, especially for men.

And you mentioned cortisol and insulin. And I know that these are two that get talked about quite a bit in the modern world because they can often be out of balance for a lot of people. So I’m curious if you have any other suggestions for helping to have the right rhythm and balance of cortisol, keeping insulin in good ranges, and things that we can all do that are supportive.

Masami: Yes. And if you don’t mind, I’ll back up a little bit about the male hormones as well with the moon cycles. And yes, we do talk about male hormones being 24-hour cycles, but actually if you step back and look at the circa lunar cycles, you can actually see the changes in oxytocin levels in men in the same way that I described and also testosterone, production actually goes up quite a bit leading up to the full moon. And this can actually lead to mood swings for men, as well as a little bit more kind of aggression can kick in, and as well as sexual activities can go up for men. So these studies are out there. It’s just you have to kind of dig deeper to find out if the men work in these cycles as well. And then, you know, the answer is yes. And so it’s like more to be explored. I’m excited to kind of see where the studies are going now that there are a lot more interest. I’m sure you noticed in the global level, people are interested in moon more, but different countries are interested in the moon. They’re sending out these spaceships and rockets to the moon to explore moon far more than they’ve been doing for a long time. So, you know, just as a side note, I’m excited about that.

And then coming back to cortisol and insulin, which I mentioned a little bit earlier in the first episode, but the sleep cycles really impact these two hormones greatly. So coming back to addressing some of the issues like sleep cycles that changes around the full moon and be aware of that. Don’t ignore that. Know that that put it on your calendar, that that is going to impact all of us across the globe, then this is when we’re going to all be experiencing sugar cravings after the full moon period. And we’re not sleeping as long, and our sleep is disturbed by maybe more vivid dreams and parasites activities. This is when you do need to pay attention and say, okay, I need to be careful about how much carbohydrates I’m taking in. And it is important in the Japanese lunar medicine.

We say that the, you want to build up your muscles and build up your protein intake leading up to the full moon. And so this is when uses of hydrochloric acid can be very important because that’s first thing that you need to be addressing in order for you to digest your protein, but because you’re not sleeping as well, then that’s going to lower your abilities to actually digest. So this is when adding that digestive support can be very important and leading up to the full moon, since the melatonin goes down, the, insulin resistance can kick in, and then that’s going to lead to, you know, your stress hormones going up. This is when they found that the, your neutrophil counts, basically your white blood cells can actually go down as well. So you are a little bit more susceptible to disease and maybe infections and things like that too. So just be aware of all that that’s influencing all of us.

And what you can do, like I said, is maybe support your digestion, little bit more with supplement intake and digestive support during the leading up to the full moon. And after the full moon, maybe three to five days after, that’s when you may want to support your digestion, but also diet with maybe complex carbohydrates, like good vegetables, having, you know, bone broth with the vegetable soups, maybe adding a little bit of fat because that actually helps with the insulin resistance issues. You know, the roller coaster, the sugar roller coasters as well. And you actually do digest fats a little bit better. And the fat intake can go up when the fat intakes go up, progesterone production can go up also, those have been tied together too.

So you can kind of cycle through your diet. And when I work with people, I say to them, don’t stress so much because I work with moms and grandmas and, you know, even just people that are going through perimenopause and say like, I have to get variety of foods. And I say to them, get a variety of foods within that one-month cycle and don’t stress so much. You know, you might be doing a little more protein heavy at the beginning, and then you might do more, a little bit more complex carbohydrates, heavy foods towards the last two weeks, or maybe last 10 days of the cycle.

Katie: And I wonder if kids are naturally more in line with that because I haven’t paid attention to it in relation to the moon cycles. But I do notice with my kids, they almost go through phases of like craving a lot more protein at certain times. And then other times they’ll want fruit, or they’ll want like they’ll ask for salads or things like that. And so I wonder if kids are just naturally more in line with that. Like you said, they have more progesterone. They have a lot of more probably optimally functioning things in their body in general. But I’m going to start paying attention to that for my kids now.

And I’d love to hear a little bit more about you mentioned how the moon corresponds with different organ systems in the body. And in researching for this, how this is sort of like Japanese energy medicine. And I feel like there’s a whole new world here that I haven’t ever gotten to learn about. So can you explain which organs correlate with which moon phases? I know you mentioned things like milk thistle for supporting the liver in certain phases. But are there other things we can do to support the body understanding that, that the organs kind of maybe work differently at different moon phases?

Masami: Yeah. So I’ll give you a couple, and I’m working on the book. So, you know, I want to hold off on giving too much because this is something that I’m still really deeply diving into. So the first phase of the moon really is helpful to support your liver. And the reasons why are not just the Japanese lunar medicine and a Chinese medicine, but because of them, we are preparing ourselves to produce a little bit more estrogen, right? So you want to clear out that xenoestrogen. And also during the new moon phase, not just the liver, but the brain actually shrinks in size. So the volume of the brain shrinks. That means you are actually clearing out some of the debris in the brain through the glymphatic system better. So supporting the brain as an organ for the new moon phase. And I mean, new moon phase starts around two days before the new moon and maybe about two to three days. So within that, about four to five days of the new moon phase can be a really good time to do brain tapping or, you know, like the mohawk line massage that I showed you or working on lymphatic systems to really support that drainage of the body. So those are the systems that really kick in around the new moon phase.

And then it’s actually this corresponds with the science of the maybe Western science too. But the second phase, it’s really important that you begin to address your heart a little bit. And cardiovascular issues have been tied to the waxing moon issues. So I’ve been studying a lot about postmenopausal women and their cardiovascular issues and cardiovascular diseases that increase as we get older as women, much more than men, actually, once we go into the postmenopause. One reason is that because we produce a lot less estrogen, that can cause us to have issues in the heart. But so perfectly aligned with this Japanese medicine of the lunar medicine is that the we’re addressing the heart around that time to make sure that you get supplements like I like using things like phosphatidylcholine for not just the, you know, all your cells and brain cells and your liver cells and bioflow and all that too. But really phosphatidylcholine is great for your brain. Phosphatidylserine can be really good too for lowering inflammation in the brain and making sure that you’re not eating inflammatory foods during that time that can impact your brain either, right.

And then the third phase of it generally goes into more addressing things like movements that are not muscularly oriented. So like maybe HIIT exercises, high intensity exercises, working on heavy, heavier weights that can be done up to the full moon and then doing a little less of that emphasis and maybe doing cardiovascular, but more of a movements that steady, like going for a walk, going for a little jog. Maybe doing longer walks and moving your system during the heading to the new moon. That can be really good.

And working on breathing techniques. So doing things that are like emphasizing your exhales a little bit more because darkening of the moon is all about the exhale and adding the light is all about the inhale. So think of it like that, the inhale, exhale. We’re taking these like a deep, single, beautiful breath throughout the 29.5 days, right? We’re taking this deep inhale. We’re accumulating light. We’re accumulating more hormones. We’re accumulating more oxytocin. We’re accumulating more ways to absorb nutrients. Then as you go into the waning moon, you’re releasing, releasing. So think about exhaling a little bit more.

And then as we go into the last phase of the moon, this is when it’s really good to emphasize the issues around calcifications of the body. So organs that do tend to struggle with the calcified issues from maybe even like eating things are too high in oxalates, oxalic acids and things. So this is when I request that the, you know, and then maybe recommend people to lower the intakes of highly oxalic foods like dark chocolates or maybe almonds, or even if you do eat a lot of raw spinach, you know, I do not recommend that in Japanese medicine. We do not recommend you ever eat actually spinach raw because it’s really, really high in oxalates. So I never ate spinach raw till I came to this country, to the United States. So things like that, you know, lowering that to support organs that are highly susceptible to oxalates or like kidneys and bladder as well. So, you know, those are the things that you can begin to address. And so I’m, you know, I obviously I will go a lot more in detail in my book, but these are some of the ideas that you can use in your day to day throughout the month.

Katie: Yeah, and I’m glad you brought up that women’s rate of cardiovascular disease drastically increases after menopause actually to similar rates as men. And there’s been a lot of talk about that, but I don’t feel like anybody’s really spoken to the lunar potential impact of that, which I think is also really fascinating because the idea of cycle syncing our workouts has gotten really popular online lately and how maybe at different phases of your cycle, you might be better at lifting heavier. You might want to do more gentle movements or Pilates or something. And I think this is kind of maybe the missing link that it’s like, yes/and, it’s menstrual cycle and moon cycle and that the moon cycle is going to be there even after menopause. So even if you’ve lost your menstrual cycle, you still can tune into these rhythms and get the same benefits for your body when you start to pay attention. And I feel like this is a whole world of wisdom that has been not talked about nearly enough in our world. So I love that you’re bringing a voice to this.

You mentioned your book, and I would love for you to talk a little bit about your book and when it’s going to be released. And also a question I sometimes ask on here, which is if there’s a book or a number of books that have profoundly impacted you personally, what they would be and why.

Masami: Right. So the book, it’s going to take me at least another year to really go through it, because I like to dive into the science and the spirituality of things. I like to balance. I’m an East meets West person. I grew up in Japan. I only spoke Japanese growing up, so I didn’t come, I didn’t speak English until I came here, but that helped me a lot to look at the right side and the left side of the brain, because that’s the balance that I think is helping me to look at the solar and the lunar together. It’s the West and the East, and it’s the front and it’s the back. It’s the right side, left side, feminine, masculine, all that. So, you know, stay tuned. But in the meantime, I’ll be posting a lot of information on my website and YouTube. So check that out.

And, and the book that really influenced me was when I was really, really young. So this is a story that all Japanese kids still to this day, they all have to read this at school. And the story book is called the, it’s called Swimmy. And it’s a French author that wrote this book, Swimmy. And it’s a children’s book actually, because I thought about, you know, books that profoundly impacted me. There’s so many, right? But this set the stage for who I am. So to give you just a quick idea is that the, there’s a school fish, they’re all colored red, you know, these little, like almost like a goldfish looking, okay. They were living in this community underwater. And there’s this one fish that was the same size as them, but kind of was a loner that appeared. And this one little fish was colored in black. So there’s this one little black fish and then the school of red fish. And I grew up exactly like that. So my father was the only white man in the city of 1 million people. And my sister, my younger sister, my older brother, and I were the only kids that had two different, you know, ethnicity. And we were used to called like mixed kids and things like that. But so I never could find anybody else that looked like me. And I always felt like I didn’t belong anywhere.

And so when I read that book in the textbook, Japanese textbook, and how story goes is that basically this one black fish gets incorporated into this community and actually helps them to save the community by, from getting eaten by other sharks and things like that, because that black fish became an eye for the school of the red fish and then starts to kind of swim in, in sync to protect themselves. So when I read that, I thought, I know what my calling is, you know, that I, I’m not going to blend in. I am not going to look like them, but I could be the eye that will take the school fish together in protecting and learning and exploring the world. So that’s what that story was. So that’s, that’s what impacted me the most.

And I think that’s still helping me to know that I do belong. And now that with my love for the lunar cycles, it’s helping me that I do belong to this greater cosmic level cycles of things, even I’m in post menopause. And that’s been such a beautiful lesson for me that I am that little swimmy fish that I’m swimming with the cycle of things now with closely connected to the lunar cycles. And I think that’s a very important message to give and hope to give to menopausal and postmenopausal women who get kind of lost because there are a lot of studies that are coming out about osteoporosis going up or, you know, cardiovascular diseases increasing for postmenopausal women. And there are a lot of really hard sciences coming out that’s making them really, really fearful. But if we can reconnect back to the lunar cycles, maybe that can bring a lot of hope back to all of us.

Katie: Oh, I just got chills hearing you talk about that story. And that’s so beautiful that it became part of your life’s purpose. And hopefully we can do another interview when your book is released so that we can learn more about what you discover in the book writing process. And I also, you mentioned growing up in Japan. And I said before we started recording, I wish we lived nearby so that I could learn how to cook some Japanese and Korean foods from you. But just briefly before we wrap up, are there any foods that especially come to mind that are more traditional foods that you think we could benefit from learning more about or incorporating in our diets in the US?

Masami: Yes, definitely. So number one, like I said, cooking some of these oxalic foods like vegetables and blanching them, that’s actually one of the wisdoms that I learned from living in Japan and from my mother who was a chef actually. So I learned a lot from her. So blanching some of these green vegetables, that can be a really good way to support your digestion. That’s number one.

Number two is that when you think of Japanese foods, you’re already thinking about sushi, right? But sushi is like, you know, somebody saying to the maybe people in the United States and say, do you eat filet mignon every day? Like nobody’s going to eat filet mignon every day, right? So nobody’s going to eat sushi every day. But one of the main dishes that I loved, absolutely loved growing up eating that I think really, really helped my brain heal because I had a tremendous brain injury, so TBIs when I was five years old, and I fell out of a moving van and landed on the concrete, basically rolled over railroad tracks. So that really threw off my gut brain axis, but also my colon went to spasms, and I couldn’t go to the bathroom anymore. So I was a very constipated child, but what really healed was making the fish head soups. And it might sound crazy but go to your local fish shops or places that sell really wild caught salmon or something like that. And ask them, could you please save the head part? Because usually we can only buy the filets, right? But it’s the head part that will heal your maybe traumatic brain injuries, can give you a lot of collagen. It can actually help with your eyesight. It can help you with the skin tones and your hair qualities. And what I do with the fish head soup is that you can roast it or just put it raw straight into the broth, like into a water.

But what I do is I break off about an inch and a half of the kombu. Kombu, I’m sure you know about kombu, but it’s a seaweed sheets. So you could buy kombu and it’s K-O-M-B-U, kombu. You could buy that just about anywhere. You buy them, you break that sheet into a little piece, stick it into the water and let it sit because that’s what’s going to bring back that umami taste. That’s what’s going to thicken the broth. That’s going to create a little bit of a sliminess, you know, like a thickening agent of the soup. And, but that thickening agent gives you the L-glutamine basically, and it heals the gut lining if you are dealing in, all of us are dealing with a gut inflammation, no matter what we do, you know, just a little bit of stress of cortisol and lack of sleep with the full moon. That’s going to increase your cortisol. And then that’s going to increase the inflammatory issues in your gut too. So making kombu with a fish head soup and you let it sit there for about half an hour before you turn on the water. And then let it come to boil and skim off from some of that bubbles that come up and discard that. And then continue to cook that on low heat for about an hour. And you have this gorgeous fish broth. And if you don’t want to eat the fish head, give it to maybe other animals or critters. But I eat the whole fish head basically, not the bone part. But you can use that broth and make yourself some other dishes. You could cook rice with it. You could cook your veggies with it. You could cook your meats with it.

Katie: Well, I have someone who owns a seafood market in my neighborhood, so I’m excited to give that a try. I’ve made bone broth, certainly, but I’m excited to make actually fish head soup. And like I said, I’m excited to learn more from you in the future. Hopefully we can do another episode when your book comes out. But for today, thank you so much for your time. Like I said, I love that you are bringing light to an area that is not very much talked about and that seemingly has a very profound impact on our biology. So I’m very grateful for everything you’ve shared today. Thank you.

Masami: Thank you so much.

Katie: And thanks as always to you for sharing your most valuable resources, your time, your energy, and your attention with us today. We’re both so grateful that you did. And I hope that you will join me again on the next episode

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