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Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.
Hello, and welcome to the Wellness Mama podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com. And I’m back today with my friend Dane, who I will link to our first conversation in the show notes. But Dane was and is a serial entrepreneur who has both started many successful businesses and helped many other people do the same. But that’s not actually what we talk most about in this episode. Our whole focus is on how to create more ease in which the way you do everything and to create more sanity and calm in your life. And he has quite the story on his personal journey with this, as well as some very actionable ways that you can build this into your own life. And toward the end of the conversation, we also talk about why he believes, and I love this perspective, that women are naturally wired to be really successful entrepreneurs and the method for actually doing that. So you guys said you wanted to hear more on the business and financial side, and we get into that a little bit in this topic as well. But without further ado, let’s talk to Dane. Dane, welcome back.
Dane: Let’s do it. Let’s go.
Katie: Well, we had a great first conversation about how we can actually use our own life experiences to create a children’s book for our children that helps them to have a healthier childhood. And all of those links, and as well as our first episode, will be in the show notes. But you have such far-ranging expertise. I’m excited to go deeper in a couple of areas with you in this episode. Before we started recording, we talked about the concept of finding and creating more sanity, more space in your life. I know for me this year, my phrase for the year is grace, ease, and joy, which can be elusive with all the demands of motherhood, certainly. And I know that you have both in your own life navigated and learned how to build in more sanity, more grace, ease, and joy. And then also, you have such a cool perspective on how you help others do the same. So I know that’s a broad jumping in point, but I would love for you to just give some context around that so that we can dive deeper in this conversation.
Dane: Well, so obviously, since I’m a mother, I thought I’d speak on this. I’m just kidding. What I want to talk about is how I’ve achieved sanity, and I think it will be helpful for women. I actually find, I honestly find that the male and female emotional systems are quite similar. Like, you know, we both feel sad. We both feel angry. We both feel scared. We both feel anxious. We both feel insignificant. We both feel worthless. We both feel inadequate. We both feel empty. We both feel bad. And we both feel lost. Like, those things are all pretty similar, man or woman.
Sanity is available in an instant. It’s available right now. As soon as you can find out what your mind is doing, and say yes to it. Sanity is available right now. And by sanity, what I mean is a sense of deep well-being. Unconditional well-being. Well-being where you’re just like, ah. Regardless of circumstance. And it exists by you figuring out what, figuring out how to be the right, but sure, figuring out what your mind is doing and saying yes to it.
Now, the problem is that women are highly complex creatures. And the mind itself, male or female, is a highly complex thing. You’re, what I see happening with moms and women is you are being told things that aren’t actually grounded in the complexity of how you actually are. So when I say, when I say, figure out what your mind is doing and say yes to it, it’s probably doing like five things. You know, it’s like how you want to make sure your kids are getting good in school. Yes. Did you leave the coffee pot on? You’re worried about burning down the house. Yes. I hope my kid doesn’t get hit on the way to school. Yes.
You know, like, and how I use it in my mind and we’re not, see, most of our, well, I have a particular theory on this. It may be threatening for some people, but I’ll tell you. What I found for myself and most people I talk to is that we never are suffering what we’re thinking. We’re suffering what we unconsciously think about what we’re thinking. Okay, so I’m going to break it down. We don’t, like, if you’re a mother and you’re feeling any sense of less than well-being, any sense of anxiety, any sense of suffering, it’s not coming from what you’re thinking. It’s coming from what your unconscious thinks about what you’re thinking. So if you’re a mother and you’re really overwhelmed and you feel like you’re not doing enough and your kids are a little crazier than you’d like and those are like the thoughts. But then your unconscious says, I must be doing something wrong. I must be failing as a mother. I must not be enough as a mother. How the hell am I supposed to do all this? Excuse my language. Like this goes on in the unconscious of, well, I know for my daughter’s mother, she’ll share these things.
Now, you have these things going on as a mother and you’re suffering them. And then you go and you talk to another mom and you talk to the other mom and you’re like, oh, my kids are going crazy. They’re going everywhere. And the other mom’s like, oh, yeah, mine is too. And all of a sudden you feel better. You feel better. Not because the thought changed. You feel better because what you think about the thought changed. So the first thought is like, my kids are, my kids are like doing all this stuff and they’re kind of crazy. Unconscious whispers, you’re failing as a mom. Okay, this unconscious, invisible thought is what creates the suffering. You go to the other mother, you know, my kids are kind of crazy or whatever. And then I was like, oh, yeah, mine are, too. Oh, the unconscious thought that says your failure is now gone because another mom is struggling with it. You feel better. We never suffer ever. Have I ever found I actually suffer the I’m thinking if the suffering is happening.
So what happens is an alarm bell. If the suffering is happening, you ask, hey, what’s the invisible thought going on right now that’s creating the pain. That’s where the suffering happens. So once you learn it’s not what you’re thinking, it’s the relationship you have with what you’re thinking, then you just instantly pop into sanity. You instantly pop into well-being. Because, you know, if the mother, like go back to the mother, my kids are crazy, unconscious whispers, I must be failing as a mother, talks to the other mother, the mother’s like, I have the same thing. Second thoughts now gone. You now feel sane. You now feel well-being.
So this happens, what the problem with this is it’s monstrously difficult, is it’s unconscious, and we have a thousand plus a million opinions about what our initial thoughts are. But now you actually know. And what freedom, what great freedom is this to know that it’s not the first thought that causes the suffering, it’s the invisible one that causes the suffering.
So right now as I’m talking, I have anxiety. The anxiety in me as I’m talking is maybe I’m talking too passionately. Maybe I’m talking too forcefully. It’s not gentle enough for the feminine heart. Maybe, actually really don’t know what I’m talking about. And you know what? I don’t belong to be on this podcast. There that’s all going on in my brain and it the first three thoughts I thought maybe they’re causing me suffering but then I saw the final thought oh, I don’t belong to be on this podcast. I’m not a mother talking about how to have sanity as a mother, how would I belong to be on this podcast but I, I saw the thought and I feel sane again I just did it I just did it live for you now. And if you can do this if you can ask like let your mind be like this playground where you’re like, oh my god, four moms, I have never seen a group of women, particularly moms, beat themselves up more than moms do. Moms just beat themselves up like crazy. I’m not good looking enough. My body does nothing after I’ve been pregnant. I can’t focus enough. I can’t make good enough meals for my kids. My kids are addicted to their fault. Like, and like, oh God, stop, please, please stop. Mom is hard. Mom is hard. And when you find that invisible thought, oh my gosh, your heart can sing a song and sing a song. It can sing a song because it’s free because it’s free because you’ve found the invisible thought that’s actually doing the harm. That’s how you unlock sanity right now.
Katie: Is learning that a little bit of a journey as well?
Dane: Oh, yes.
Katie: Okay.
Dane: Oh, yes.
Katie: Are there any steps or practices that you found that were helpful in not getting caught in the invisible scripts and actually learning to identify them?
Dane: Jump off a cliff and, I’m just kidding. That’s what it feels like every time. Every time I explore my mind, it’s like, well, I’m just going to jump off a cliff again. I’m going to, like, because who wants, if you’re a mom and you’re beating yourself up, last thing you want to do is explore your own mind because you’re actually probably thinking the worst things about yourself. Like, who wants to explore their mind when they already at the lowest, most secret level think that they’re a terrible mother? Who’s going to want to explore that? Well, I’ve got amazing news for every woman on this, every mom on this. The worst thing that you think about yourself is still only a thought. And that thought may be real to you, but it is not true. Ever. Ever. The worst thought that you think about yourself is still only a thought. And it’s not true. It may feel real, but it’s not true. Real, but not true.
So what you do is you say, listen, I’m going to explore my mind. And so I said, learn how to say yes to your mind, whatever your mind is doing. If you’re a mother and you can say yes to whatever your mind is doing, you will raise kids that know how to say yes to their mind, no matter what their mind is doing. That is a huge gift to the world. It’s a huge gift for everybody that they’re around. Because if you can say yes to everything your mind is doing, you will have compassion with everybody in your life because you are having compassion for yourself because you are saying yes to whatever your mind is doing.
So if you’re going to say, I want to explore my mind and your mind is like, F that. No, thank you. No way. Possible. I’m not going in my mind. Not safe. I’m way too anxious. I’m way too scared. I’m way too paranoid. Like if that’s what your mind does, when you want to explore it, you do what I tell you and you say yes to it. Yes. Okay, cool. Won’t explore the mind. I’ll honor that. And you just stay right there. And your exploration of the mind is to say yes to whatever your mind is doing.
So I’m really worried about my kids. Yeah, just say yes to that. You know, I’m worried about my kids and I shouldn’t be worried about my kids. Yeah. Say yes to that. Oh, man, I wish, I wish I looked, if you think this mom’s things, I wish I looked better for my husband. Just say yes to that. And just yes. With compassion, you know. And so the whole purpose of this is to explore the mind for the whole sake of just saying yes to your own life. You become your own best friend to your mind. What do you, what happens when you go into a support group full of like 10 other women and you’re sharing your stuff? What do the women do? They usually just say yes. They’re like, oh, sweetheart, that sounds so, they’re saying yes to your mind.
So here’s what makes it so brutally difficult. Your unconscious is going to have an opinion about what you’re thinking before you ever can find out. And so this is absolutely a journey. You take baby steps, and you know you’re doing a really good job when your mind feels at ease. And your mind’s going to feel at ease when you meet it exactly where it’s at and say yes to it. I was working with one woman and just as a friend, and she was separating from her boyfriend. And she was in a lot of pain. And do you know what a lot of people do? They’re like, oh, don’t worry, you’ll meet a new guy. Don’t worry, you’re a good catch. They’re not saying yes. They’re trying to fix her pain. This is the complaint of every woman for all of existence and all of eternity. Dear husband, please stop trying to fix me. Just say yes to my pain and be with me in it. Right. And I’m talking on a podcast, but when I’m live in the scene, trust me, I’m doing my own thick stuff, too, until I see. Oh, what I do is I see. So my daughter and my ex, we co-parent. We co-parent beautifully. We co-parent peacefully. We’re separated, but we put our daughter first. It’s amazing. If my ex is saying something and I’m like, oh, I really don’t like what she’s saying. I just say yes to that. And as soon as I say, I don’t like what you’re saying, yes, I’m still at peace.
So, okay, I want to just, like, bring this home. The purpose of exploring your mind is to say yes to whatever comes up. So if you go to explore your mind and your mind says, no, I don’t want to explore. Please don’t explore. I don’t want to find out how bad of a person I really am. Yes. Okay. That’s where your mind is. You can meet your mind exactly. So I talked to this lady. She has a separation with the guy and she’s in a lot of pain. And I tell her, I was like, yeah, of course. Of course you’re in pain. Would you like to go into the pain and process a little bit of it? And she says, no, no, I think that would overwhelm me. Me in the past, I was like, it’s alright, let’s just process it anyway. But she goes, so she says, I broke up with my boyfriend, a lot of pain. Yes. Would you like to process the pain? No, I find it a little overwhelming. Okay, yeah, let’s honor that. Your brain says you’re going to be overwhelmed. Let’s not go any further.
How amazing would it be if that was you to yourself with your own best friend? How many times when you say you’re overwhelmed, someone doesn’t honor that? How many times when you say you’re overwhelmed, people don’t give a crap about it. They’re just still trying to do their thing. You get to be that for yourself. You get to be your own best friend. You say, I’m overwhelmed. You can finally say, yes, yes, I am. I don’t want to feel that. Yes. Don’t feel it. Okay. I’m starting to feel ready to feel it. Yes. Okay. I’m starting to feel it. Yes. Whoa, whoa. Overwhelmed. Overwhelmed. Slow down. Yes. If you can, yes, everything in your mind as it happens, oh, freedom is yours in a moment’s notice. I had a mentor teach me this for two and a half years. And it took me two and a half years. And I sat in hours of sessions with this guy to figure this out. And the whole theory is to become best friends with your own mind. Just say yes to it and explore. Be brave enough to explore your brain. And let me tell you, the worst thing you think about yourself is only a thought. Hallelujah. Praise God. The worst thing you think about yourself is only a thought.
Katie: Yeah, so many quotes come to mind from so many books that I’ve read or people that I’ve heard from all along the idea that we suffer more in imagination than reality or that what we resist persists because we’re giving it space to continue to exist when we fight it. And so I love how you’re giving a practical method for befriending our minds, which I’ve talked a lot in other episodes about same with befriending our bodies. I had to learn that process. I had to make friends with myself again. And I read the quote and it pointed my journey and it really struck me. It said, I said to my body, I want to be your friend. And my body took a deep breath and said, I’ve been waiting our whole life for this. And I feel like this is the same process you’re talking about with the mind and the freedom found and not having to be right or have to figure it all out, but just to have that moment of peace and acceptance. And to acknowledge what our mind is saying to us, I think is so profound.
And I’m sure this, of course, comes across through your modeling and your parenting a lot. But I’m curious if you, in your language and in your interactions with your daughter, have any particular ways that you help her to know that process from the very beginning. I know she’s still young, but, and I’m sure modeling is the most important aspect of that, like we’ve talked about, if you set the tone with yourself, that ripples into your kids. But in your communication with her, are there any ways that you help her to identify that invisible script or help her to say yes to her mind, even at such a young age?
Dane: Well, the only thing that’s coming up right now is all the times I’ve messed up. That’s it. I’ve said so many stupid things. And then I watched the impact on my daughter. And then actually repairing the mistake is one of my favorite things. So I’m like, hey, Everly, I got to tell you something. Dada, he’s learning how to be a Dada. And he made a Dada mistake. And I’m really sorry about that. That’s not what I meant. And that’s really cool. Just making the mistake and then watching the impact on her and being like, you know what? And my parents, God bless them, they weren’t trained to do that. So they didn’t know how to do that. They would have had they been trained because I know they love me. And that’s one of my favorite things is how to recover from mistakes is like, hey, I’m learning how this is pretty hard. But, you know, we all make mistakes. I just made a mistake and I’m learning from it.
My daughter on the car ride yesterday, I was taking her to Six Flags and out of nowhere she started calling me stupid. She said, you’re stupid. I hate people. And I used to get really concerned about it. But now I know she doesn’t know how to be with sadness. And so her coping mechanism for sadness is to start attacking. So I had something that didn’t happen the way I wanted to like a week ago. And I really wanted something to happen really bad, and it didn’t happen the way I wanted. And I started feeling like I wanted to attack a bunch of stuff. So here I am. My daughter and I are one. I can’t handle the sadness. And so I start attacking, So I said, no, I’m actually sad. I process the sadness for myself. So now my daughter starts saying this. You’re stupid. You’re stupid. And I say to her, Everly, are you feeling Dada right now? Are you feeling Dada’s unconscious? And because I’m thinking in my mind somewhere, I must still be calling myself stupid as she’s calling me stupid. So I’m yes-ing her and I’m yes-ing my own exploration. I say, Everly are you feeling Dada, right, your Dada, right? And it’s just, it was done. She was feeling me and acting it out. It was, but we were done. But before that, I hadn’t yesed my own sadness. So I was resistant to her sadness. So I had to yes myself first. Then I was able to yes her.
And then I told her, I said, hey, Everly, that really hurts Dada when you say that. Those words have no space in my mind and heart. Anything that you say to me that’s mean has no space in my mind and no space in my heart. And anything mean has no space in your mind and no space in your heart. That’s a boundary zone. And nothing unkind can live in my mind, and nothing unkind can live in my heart, and nothing unkind can live in your mind and nothing unkind can live in your heart. And that’s how I handled that. That was a good moment. But you know, like I had to fall on my face, you know, and break a few teeth first. And be like, God dang it. Why you got to why you gotta be like that, Everly? And then I’m like, wait. How am I like that? Find it, heal it. Next time it happens, show up, remap it. She didn’t say it the whole rest of the day.
Katie: Yeah, I think to your point, there’s something so powerful in the vulnerability of an apology, especially I think when we’re in an authority position with our kids, because that shows vulnerability. It shows that we don’t have it all figured out and it gives them permission to do the same. Like it’s one thing to tell a kid like, oh, if you hurt someone, you need to apologize. But it’s an entirely another thing to show up with the vulnerability to do that ourselves and to let them see that we’re human also. And we don’t always have all the right answers and we don’t always have our emotions in perfect alignment at all times. Because then they hopefully don’t internalize that if they don’t have those all figured out every time that they’re not worthy either. And so I think like this all ties in so much even to our first conversation.
And I know that this is a little bit of a deviation, but I think it’s related and that we are kind of in a perfect headspace for this next question, which is, I think I’ve talked to you now twice in passing about women actually being set up to be perfect entrepreneurs based on some of our strengths. And I think we often get a much different message from society. And so I would love for you to give voice to that as well, because I know that many of the women listening are entrepreneurial in some capacity. And I think that there is so much beauty in the way that you explain this.
Dane: You do not need to be extremely intelligent to succeed as an entrepreneur. You do not need to be highly credible to succeed as an entrepreneur. You don’t even need confidence and you don’t need experience. You don’t even need a lot of money. What you need to do is to be able to facilitate somebody getting a positive result to be an entrepreneur. That’s what you need to be an entrepreneur. Facilitate a positive result for a profit. Then you can actually do it for a long time because you’re making a profit.
Women are biologically wired. If you look at successful companies, some of the most successful businesses, they do two things really well. They build community. And they solve pain. Women, you do this, it’s your biological imperative to build community and solve pain. And I have taught thousands how to be entrepreneurs. I’ve taught thousands how to be entrepreneurs. And I’ve seen the patterns over and over and over again. And those that build community and those that solve pain they do fantastic.
Now, as a woman, you are likely thinking that in order to be an entrepreneur, you have to have an area of expertise. And that area of expertise, you need to figure out how to sell. Or you need to come up with your own idea, or you need to come up with your own product. Some of the most successful, well, I’ll tell you, I did 17 businesses. I’ve done more, but I did 17 businesses. I did pattern recognition. Eleven of them failed. Five or six of them succeeded. The 11 that failed I didn’t build community. And they were all my ideas and my expertise. The five or six that succeeded, none of them were my idea. And all of them, I had more of a sense of community, I think. But the key of that was I didn’t come up with the idea.
So as a mother, as a woman, you’re already naturally looking for pain and how to solve. What you don’t know is that you can bring an expert in. You can go out as a woman. You can discover these pains. You can bring an expert in to solve that pain while you own the business and continue to be a mother. So let’s say let’s say you talk to as a mother, you talk to people that like love gray African Grey Parrots. These are really expensive parrots. And you talk to you start talking to gray African Grey Parrots owners. And you find out, you say, hey guys, how’s it being a parrot owner? And they’re like, well. It’s kind of hard. My parrot bites me. It poops and pees everywhere. It kind of cusses and like it bites my friends. So you’ve found the pain. And you say, well, what would be your dream solution here? And oh, gosh, I would love it if it wouldn’t pee or poop everywhere. I wish it wouldn’t bite me. And I wish it would say nice things. You say, well, great. Okay, so if you had a parrot that didn’t poop and pee everywhere, didn’t bite you or your friends and said nice things, would that be something that would be valuable enough that you’d want to pay for it? Well, yes. What kind of a price would you pay for that? They’re like, well, I paid like $500 for my parrot. I’d pay at least $300 for this training. Okay, great. So now you’ve just found a pain.
Now you go and you look up parrot stores in your city. You call up parrot stores. You say, hey, do you have any parrot trainers that know how to work with African Grey Parrots? They say, yes, we have a trainer that knows how to do that. Great. Can I talk to them? You talk to the gray African parrot trainer, the expert, and you say, hey, I’ve got these gray African parrot owners and they want their parrots to stop pooping or peeing, stop biting and stop cussing. Do you know how to fix these issues? Like, oh yeah, I know how to fix these issues all day. You say, great. Well, why don’t, I have some people that want to do this. Why don’t you be the teacher of this business? I’ll build the community around it and I’ll just give you 20% of all the income. You can make the program once you get 20% income, passive income for life of this thing. I’ll get the customers, I’ll do the support, I’ll build the community. You, you be the expert. And now as a mother, oh my gosh, have the doors just been flown open.
I’ve taught this to thousands of people, and I have students that are all like leading their different industries because they actually, because how do you lead an industry? You solve the most painful problem. Well, how do you solve the most painful problem? By asking what the most painful problem is. Well, how do you solve the most painful problem once you’ve found what it is? Get an expert in place and give them 20%. They get to just solve the problem. They don’t have to do the support. They don’t have to do the websites. They don’t have to do the marketing. And by the way, you can get people to do all that stuff too.
But I just want to give you that gray African parrot example. You get your wheels turning that, hey, maybe you could just keep being biologically a woman and look for people’s pains. Ask them what they would want for a solution. Ask them if they think it would be valuable enough to pay for and then find an expert to put it in place. I’ve got I’ve had many women in my programs do this. And this is but one modicum of an example. I have a I do have a whole book on the process. I’ve got like a course on the process, Katie, but I’m not I didn’t want to promote that without your permission. But I do have a book on Amazon that teaches this in depth. I also since you’re since you’re ladies love podcasts. I actually have a podcast and I actually have a season, I have a podcast where I mentor people live and teach them how to start businesses from scratch who have no confidence, no experience. It’s. starting a business is very vulnerable. It feels like you’re in a jungle. You get eaten by a tiger any second. Most people don’t understand how vulnerable it is to start a business. I do because I’m sensitive. So I have a podcast, season two of my podcast, I mentor only women on how to start a business. And people can listen to that free too. I can tell them the URL if you want, or we can put it in the show notes.
Katie: Yeah, you could definitely say the URL and I’ll make sure everything you’ve mentioned are in the show notes. But I love this because I think often, like with my kids, entrepreneurship is a core value in our family. And so we actually have a contract that they have to have a successful business for a year before they can have a car or a phone, because I think many lessons can be learned through entrepreneurship. But and I think it touches on the things you just mentioned, especially which are especially solving that pain point, finding a problem for someone and solving them. How are you going to help people? How are you going to help the world? And how do you build community while you do it? Which I think we are all deficient in after the last few years of not having as much community as we have in the past and in the modern world in general. And so I love that you bring those pieces together.
And I think also the last few years have shown us, even if you’ve never thought of yourself as an entrepreneur, you likely have something that you can help solve a pain point for someone or figure out how to build, like you said, even if you don’t have all the expertise yourself, you can help solve that problem for them. And we saw women I feel like throughout the COVID trajectory who taught people how to can at home or to do sourdough bread or to take care of houseplants or to garden, or there’s a million directions you could go that someone might want to learn. So I love that you make that achievable. But yeah, where what are the links to find those things? And where can people find you if they want to learn on the business side?
Dane: It’s startfromzero.com, startfromzero.com. You’ll find a link to the book on Amazon. The course, if you want to take it. The podcast is up top. Season two is the one with the women. But let’s just do a quick example. Say as a woman, you’ve got a friend. She has a Gucci purse. And you’re like, hey, I see you have a Gucci purse. Can I ask you a random question? Sure. Do you have any, like, how do you feel about purses? How do you feel about buying purses, wearing purses, holding purses? Do you have any problems with the process? And they’re like, honestly, like, purses are so expensive. And, like, I feel guilty every time I buy them because they’re so expensive. And I have, like, six and I can’t ever pick what to wear. And then I’ve got to go buy new ones. And maybe if you’re talking to women, you like figure out like this idea called purse exchange. Where like women who are like tired of their purse can exchange it for a purse of like equal or greater value and that you just pay an exchange fee. And like you could, I don’t know, I just made that up in my head just pretending I was talking to a woman. But if you go out and if you talk to women and if you build, if you talk to your people and you build community around it and you stop trying to be the expert and just bring the expert in, then you, listen. It takes like eight years to become an expert. You can spend like eight years, become an expert to sell your expertise, or you could just actually just like go out with an open heart, pray to a loving creator, whichever one you believe it is, say, hey, bring me the person with the pain, whose pain I’m supposed to solve. And then talk to people and find out the pain and find the experts. Like you’re, you’re in a playground. You’re no longer locked into your expertise forever.
Katie: Well, I know that alone could be a whole series of conversations and podcasts, but I’ll make sure that we put all those links in the show notes as springboards for people to find and learn more, as well as, like I said, our first conversation, which I think is a super fun creative project for parents to do, as well as a link to your book if people want to just have a book and get to jump in and not have to build it from scratch. But Dane, this has been such a fun conversation. You are so fun to talk to and have such wide-ranging knowledge in so many areas. I really, really appreciate your time today.
Dane: Thank you. The wide-reaching knowledge is because of all the suffering and my desperation to end the suffering. And hopefully if I learn this, it’ll work. Nope. Hopefully if I learn this, it’ll work. That’s where all the knowledge comes from. I just want her to feel better. Thank you. Thank you for the compliment.
Katie: I feel like that is a repeatable theme as well. Many of us even get into the health world trying to figure out our own, solving our own problems, and then realize we can hopefully help others in the same way. And we touched on that through the entrepreneurship conversation. So thank you for your time. This has been such a great conversation.
Dane: Thank you for having me, Katie.
Katie: And thank you as always for listening and sharing your most valuable resources, your time, your energy, and your attention with us today. We’re both so grateful that you did. And I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the Wellness Mama podcast.
If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.
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