945: The 8 Pillars of Functional Women’s Health With Dr. Meg Mill

Child: Welcome to my mommy’s podcast!

Katie: Hello and welcome to the Wellness Mama Podcast. I’m Katie from wellness mama.com, and I am back today with Dr. Meg Mill to dive into the eight pillars of functional women’s health. And I really like her triage approach to this and how there are certain factors that you really wanna optimize first to make the other ones more effective and to avoid creating downstream problems.

She doesn’t just have these as separate pillars, but also explains the connections between them. How to support things like detox pathways, cellular health, what to know about parasites and parasite cleanses, including a controversial opinion on that, hormone support, and so much more. We also talk nervous system regulation, and she has a lot of great points here as well.

And Dr. Meg is a leading voice in women’s health as a PharmD, a certified functional medicine practitioner, and a health expert with a wide and varied expertise. Her focus through her work and through her podcast, A Little Bit Healthier, is to help women demystify some of their unexplained health symptoms and feel more comfortable and confident and healthy in our bodies.

She definitely has a lot of great points in this episode, so let’s learn from Dr. Meg. All right, Dr. Meg, welcome back. Thanks for being here again.

Meg: Thank you so much for having me.

Katie: If you guys missed it, we got to record an amazing episode all about histamine and I will link to that in the show notes. If you haven’t heard it, it was a fascinating conversation. And in this episode, I’m actually excited to go a little bit broader and touch the, as you call them, the eight pillars of functional women’s health in particular, and what we can all learn in supporting our own health within each of those categories.

So it seems a great diving in point would be, can you tell us what the eight pillars are?

Meg: Yes. So after working with hundreds of women, I have found that there are pillars of health that we need to address. And when we’re looking at a woman as a whole person, I think that’s one of the things that I would love to start with is just, we break things up in conventional medicine into buckets. And so while we’re looking at the pillars, we’re looking at the connection of all of these things. Where a lot of times people come to me frustrated because here you’re sent to a gastroenterologist and then you’re sent to an endocrinologist and then you’re sent to a neurologist and we’re really looking at, how is your body talking to each other and what are all the things that are happening that are really working on communicating and how do we bring your body back into a balance?

So when I’m working with people, I’m always saying, okay, we need to look at you as a whole person and we need to bring your body back into this balance. So when we’re looking at that, we need to look at your nervous system. So we do a lot of nervous system work alongside of the functional medicine work. We look at your gastrointestinal system. So are you digesting and absorbing nutrients? No matter what you’re eating, if you’re not digesting and absorbing well, then we’re not actually getting the full benefits of the food. So we need to make sure that you’re digesting and absorbing. We look at hormones, are your hormones in balance?

We look at your adrenals. So we need to look and see, okay, what is your, adrenal system? We need to look at your thyroid and are you having good cellular metabolism? We need to make sure that your body is detoxing. So if you’re not able to detox, then we’re not able to get rid of the toxins that we have in our body. We need to make sure that you have the basics. So we need to make sure that your circadian rhythm is in check because if we have low energy, then we’re not able to really evaluate how we’re doing. Sometimes people are saying, I’m so tired, but are you actually sleeping? Do you have a good circadian rhythm?

Do we have good balance and all of those things? And then we need to make sure that you have good cellular health and that you have good mitochondrial function, that your cells are functioning on an optimal level.

Katie: I love that you highlight the interconnectedness of those and avoiding the kind of siloed approach of different aspects of health being disconnected, And I feel like some of those, especially like cellular health, are not that widely talked about and seemingly super vital toward how we feel and how our body functions.

I’m curious if in your clinical work and with people you’ve worked with, are there patterns you see emerge relatively often or like overlooked pieces when someone comes to you that maybe they hadn’t thought to address or had a practitioner kind of connect for them before?

Meg: Yeah. And I think one of the things we definitely see patterns and we also see another thing that when I’m looking at people is, the order in which you do things is also important. So, for example, a lot of people are out there talking about detoxification and that’s wonderful. So we do need to make sure that we have… there are toxins that we’re exposed to.

I’m sure you’re hearing a lot about that. We do need to make sure that we can detox. But if you start with detox and your body’s not ready to detox, I see a lot of people come to me that have done things that are not serving them. Maybe they feel worse because they’re doing these things in the wrong order.

So when we’re looking at something like detoxification, we want to make sure that it’s in the right place. That you have other things back in balance first before we push toxins. Because if I detox you and you aren’t having regular bowel movements, if you don’t have enough water, if your lymphatic system is not draining, well, you’re actually just going to reabsorb the toxins most likely, and you’re going to feel worse.

And so we see some of these things start to emerge too where people are saying, I see a lot of patterns like that. Like, okay, well, I tried to do this, and now I feel worse. I’ve seen five different people, and I’ve done all these supplements and all of these things, and now I feel worse. So it’s really also looking at, okay, what are patterns that we see?

A lot of people, when you ask a pattern, no one’s going to like to hear what I’m saying, but most women are in living in fight or flight. So we need to balance the nervous system. And I I feel like we want to talk about the hormone tests, which we can get into and I love it. And we need to make sure we metabolize hormones well, but we also need to make sure that we can be in a parasympathetic nervous system. Because when we’re looking at hormones, we have a, it’s called an HPATG axis.

So you have your hypothalamus, gland, your adrenals, your thyroid, your sex hormones. We like to talk about the sex hormones and they’re really important. But if our adrenals are not in a good place, if we’re living in fight or flight, if we’re not digesting and absorbing well, because our nervous system is telling us to run from a lion, then we’re not going to be able to do some of the other things that we need to do. So I think that that’s one of those simple yet really powerful places to work on. And I do try to work on that alongside of all the other work that I’m doing with people.

Katie: I’m so glad you said that. I was going to ask you kind of like, what’s the triage order anyway. And I feel like the nervous system component is not talked about enough in so much as it seems to be like a master switch for everything else to be able to work as well as it could. And this is one that I was a very slow learner on for a lot of years.

I was doing the spreadsheets of supplements. I was doing all the check marks of things that were supposed to be perfect. And I had all this unresolved inner stuff that was creating my nervous system, always being in fight or flight. Like I think I spent a solid decade only in fight or flight. And it wasn’t until I addressed those things and actually saw those shifts in my nervous system that suddenly without any extra effort, all the other things I was doing magically started working. So I love that you brought that part up.

I also know firsthand how elusive that part can be and how, like, it can be a very difficult thing to work with your nervous system. It seemingly, at least for me, it was. So do you have any tangible tips for women on understanding the nervous system aspect and ways to start addressing that since it seems so important?

Meg: Yeah, so I take a three pronged approach when I’m working with the nervous system. So first of all, going into the parasympathetic nervous system. So if you are someone who someone like you’re saying, some of the nervous system work, you can feel really sensitive to because you’re diving into maybe past traumas.

Maybe, you’ve been living in this for so long. So the first thing that you can do that it’s free to everyone, is work on regulating your breathing. So we work on just taking two minutes. If you could take two minutes for me every day and twice a day, I say two minutes twice a day. And sit there in a calm place, maybe before meals, because this also helps us digest and just breathe in through your belly.

So just breathe in, take a deep breath in through your belly, pull it up through your chest, hold it, really pause for a second and then exhale slowly and imagine it going back down to the belly. And just sit there for two minutes and start to regulate your breath. What we’re trying to do there is actually create this muscle memory basically for your body to be able to bring your body back into the parasympathetic nervous system. Once you start practicing this, you start to actually get better at it and you actually can feel your body relax. And I’m going to use an example. I was presenting about three years ago.

I was on a meeting and I was like in a conference presenting. And my husband is texting me during my presentation saying you’re that my daughter, we have, we track our kids. So my daughter is on life 360. She’s in high school and she’s running and her life 360 says she’s out in the middle of the woods somewhere.

Like she’s supposed to be at track. And he’s texting me saying her things out there, she’s in the woods. And like my body just like, my nervous system just shot up. Like you could feel that fire kind of go through like, Oh my gosh. You know, that terror go through. And in the past, without learning this process or practicing, I would have just had to say like, okay, I’m done. Like I literally can’t speak anymore because now I’m so anxious. Like what’s going on. It was fortunately just a glitch in the system, but I thought, okay, I’m in this presentation. I had to like message him back.

Like you need to take care of this and figure this out right now. And I just did the breathwork. I thought, okay, you know what to do and you can do the breathwork. And I literally was able to just calm myself down and be able to speak and continue and present. And I know that, but it’s just one of those things like that was very stressful.

I was jumped into fight or flight, but I’m practiced enough at this that I can bring myself, I can actually self regulate. Which is something that we all can do if we just practice and it’s free and easy. And it just takes a few minutes a day.

Katie: That’s a great example, and I would encourage anybody listening because I know when I was in that phase, I wanted someone to tell me like this magic pill that could somehow fix my nervous system. And I doubted the ability of things like breathwork and morning sunlight and going to bed early to actually really shift things.

And I was humbled and amazed by how impactful those things were. So if anybody was in that place, I was of like, okay, but how does breathwork really make that big of a difference? I can say firsthand, it makes a absolutely massive difference, especially when we’re consistent with it. I know I’ve heard people say that our breath is the master switch of the nervous system.

And it wasn’t until I shifted that I realized I had been breathing just like so shallowly in my upper chest for so long that I actually had to relearn how to breathe into my whole like,  to fully expand my lungs and breathe into my diaphragm. But it’s incredible the changes you can see when you learn to be just more aware of your breath and a little bit more intentional.

And the side benefit of course is it’s free to breathe. So we can all have access to this.  I love that we got to establish this is the important part to start is to make friends with your nervous system. Beyond that, what are then when someone’s in a little bit more of a parasympathetic state and receptive to healing, what are then some of the most impactful next steps that someone can take?

Meg: Yeah. So then another place that we want to focus on is your gut health. So, when we’re talking about the gut and your digestive system, that’s how we digest and absorb all of the things that we eat. So I think a lot of people again are focusing on diet, that’s wonderful. We need to eat nutrients.

We need to eat protein. We need to do all of those things. But you can have the perfect… and I see this when you’re talking about some of the patterns. I see a lot of people have the perfect diet. You know, I’m doing everything right. I, you know, I’m trying to get my nutrients. I’m eating a rainbow. I eat protein.

I have healthy fats, but I still feel terrible. Well, are you actually getting the benefits from the food you’re eating? So we need to make sure that you actually can digest and absorb the nutrients that you’re eating. So we’re looking at the digestive functions. We’re looking at your gallbladder. Women are more likely to have gallbladder issues.

Being a woman over 40 just actually makes you more at risk for having gallbladder issues, especially if you’ve had children. So those are… you don’t think just those things alone can put you… so we really have to make sure that we’re looking at your digestive function, your gallbladder health, your pancreas, your liver, all of those things, and then balancing the microbiome.

So what actually is going on in your microbiome? Do you have healthy bacteria? Do you have enough support for your immune system? Do you have an overgrowth of different bacteria? So we need to look at what is your microbial balance and bring that back into balance? Because sometimes if we have a parasite, let’s say, and we have this creating havoc, you know, we talked about immune system.

So if we have that creating havoc on our immune system all the time, you’re saying, like again, I’m just going to kind of bring these back in circles. So again, something like that is also a biological stressor. So we’re talking about nervous system, about stress, but we can actually have biological stress. So we can say, okay, that parasite or that morganella or citrobacter or things that are in your gut causing havoc can be putting stressors on your body that actually impaired digestion.

So we’re kind of looking at all of these connections, but that’s the next place I often will go to because I want to make sure foundationally, that that’s a big immune system trigger when we have some of these underlying things in the gut and that we can also, like we said, digest and absorb so that we can make sure that what we’re taking into our body is optimized.

Another factor with that is a lot of people also feel like it’s normal not to have a daily bowel movement. So what’s normal for you isn’t always what’s normal, what we want to have happen. So we can get into our own norms without even realizing it.

Katie: That makes sense. And I love that these build on each other. And like I said, we talked about create that positive feedback loop that can lead to big shifts. And like I said, I saw firsthand how, especially when we start with those big picture pieces like nervous system and stress, how everything else we do gets so much more effective.

And I took some heat on Instagram recently for saying like, basically if you don’t have those things dialed in, like it’s a waste of money in some ways to take supplements because you’re trying to fuel a fire that’s not even working. And so I love that you were able to so eloquently explain why that is true and why we have to support those fundamental things and not overlook them.

Um, and I also know from living in the modern world that once we get those pieces dialed in, there often still are other big pieces to address and that they’re going to work more effectively once we have those foundational pieces. And you touched on hormone seems to be a very big topic right now.

Detox also seems to be a very big topic right now. And I would guess also there are some really common deficiencies in the modern world that we might not even be aware of that can be really impactful. Assuming we do already have those foundational things kind of dialed in. So a personal example for me would be taking choline was life changing because I had avoided eggs for so many years and I have a lot of genes that highly favor choline.

And so getting that individual piece dialed in was really helpful for me. And I know there’s a personalization aspect, of course, to all of these pieces, to hormones, to nutrient deficiencies, to supplements. But are there any things that show up often, especially in women that we can be aware of as we go through that healing cascade?

Meg: Yeah, so like, as far as nutrient deficiencies?

Katie: Yeah, either nutrient deficiencies or common hormone imbalances, especially at different ages that women need to be aware of. Cause I know I’m seeing all these trending videos about hormone replacement, about parasite cleanses, and detoxes. And I’m curious, like how to know the time and the place for those.

Are there ones that are likely to be going on for women in certain time periods, or is it extremely individualized and nuanced?

Meg: Oh yeah, I love this. Okay, so we’ll dive into hormones first. So yes, for hormones one of the things that I like women to know is, first of all, we’re going to naturally have a change in hormones. So your hormones are naturally going to shift over your lifetime. A lot of times we start to see the hormone shift in menopause, perimenopause, years and years before we actually start to see you have menopause.

So menopause actually is going a full year, the definition of menopause would be going a full year without having a period, but you’re going to have probably… a lot of women have almost a decade of hormone changes that occur before we get to that time. So we often start to see a decrease in progesterone before we see a decrease in estrogen.

So we start to see this in women that are seeing hormonal shifts. And even when we’re not talking about perimenopause, we often will see this estrogen dominance. Now, when we’re seeing… so estrogen dominance means that you have.. we should have a balance, especially in our luteal phase.

So you have a follicular phase, you have the ovulation phase, and then you have the luteal phase of your period. In the luteal phase, we see progesterone and estrogen are both supposed to go up. Often we’ll see that estrogen go up higher than the progesterone because of a lot of different reasons. One, we can see cortisol, which is our stress hormone and progesterone share a pathway. So sometimes when we have high levels of cortisol, we start to get lower levels of progesterone. So sometimes that can be from a cortisol response and a stress response.

We also see that happen, like we said, in the perimenopausal window and, you know, other things can make us have that lower progesterone to estrogen ratio. So we start to see that is a common one. Then with that, you’re going to often see the weight loss resistance, you’re going to see PMS symptoms, maybe heavy bleeding, breast tenderness, moodiness, you know, some of the women that have that picture –  migraines is another one.

Some of the women that have the picture also will say, you know, there’s only like one week I feel really good. So like I’ll feel really good right after my period and then as my cycle goes on, I feel worse and worse and worse. So we start to see kind of this like you live by your cycle too sometimes people can say.

So that’s that’s one common one. One of the things that we have to be really careful about when we’re looking at estrogen, another thing I’m seeing a lot, like you’re saying is like, okay, we’ll just start DIM. So, you know, DIM is going to help you really remove estrogen. So when you have estrogen, we want to have it, we want to use it and we want to lose it. So we want to have enough estrogen so that we feel good, have a clear mind, have good bone health, all the things that we need, but we also want to be able to metabolize it. You metabolize it in three phases. So you have two phases of metabolism in your liver, and then you have one phase in your gut.

So we have to be able to have it go down. We want it to go down to what we call a CYP1A1 pathway. We want to be able to methylate it and then it goes to our gut. We package it up with bile and we excrete it. So what can happen sometimes is that you may not actually have high levels of estradiol. So if you go to your doctor and you say, please check my estrogen levels, they’re going to check a blood level of estradiol most likely. And sometimes we see, this where the estradial itself does not look elevated or could even be low, but we’re getting stuck in some of these metabolites. So some of the metabolites of estrogen, where if we can’t remove it from the body and they’re staying high, then we’re getting these symptoms without actually having high levels of estrogen overall.

So that can be something that can be confusing to people if you’re just going to have that taken. Another thing is if you’re just starting DIM  and you are just like, I’m in this blanket, I have these symptoms, I’m estrogen dominant. If we do that without testing your estrogen levels, we actually can move it too low because you might not have an overall high.

We just need to shift it from some of these specific metabolites. So it is, there’s a lot of nuances that come into hormones. I say with hormones, a lot of times tests don’t guess. I personally like the Dutch test. That’s the one that I use because I can see these metabolites on it. But there’s a lot of different testing out there, that’s just my preference. But a lot of times supplementing with, I don’t like to supplement with hormones until I actually have a picture because you really can change the… it’s all about balance. And if you change that balance in the wrong way, you can actually make things worse.

Katie: That makes sense. Yeah. You can actually be fueling the thing you’re trying to resolve. That that makes complete sense and how nuanced it is. And I would guess like, we’ve kind of spoken of these in order of like a nervous system being so important and things like sleep and stress and then building from there and kind of figuring out your own individual pieces that are going to be most effective for you.

And I would like to touch also on if there are common deficiencies, especially that show up in women or when supplements can be helpful. As well as I would love to get your take on, we talked about parasite cleanses and detoxes a teeny bit in the beginning, but I would love to kind of give any warning signs that need to be spoken about detoxes and parasite cleanses in particular. Especially because I see these so popularly being circulated online right now and from what you said earlier, it seems like not getting that in the right order or getting that piece wrong might create more problems than it solves.

Meg: Yeah, well, we’ll do that. We’ll do the parasite and then we’ll go into the nutrition because people might not be… this might not be a popular answer, but I don’t really treat parasites if I don’t see a parasite. I am leery of these blanket parasite cleanses. Everybody has, you know, there’s a lot of information out there.

Like everyone has a parasite. Everyone should do a parasite cleanse. And I don’t really see that. I see, okay, I want to treat what you’re feeling. I want to treat your symptoms and I want to look into why you’re feeling that way. Like I said, I’ve had just too many people come to me. That’s really never been my style to just like everyone do the same thing anyway. It’s very individualized and I’m looking at you as a whole person. So I’m saying, okay, who are you, what are your goals, what are your symptoms and what do we need to do to, like we said, bring everything back in balance. So when we’re just saying everyone has a parasite, go out and do a parasite cleanse, well, you know, these antimicrobials that you’re taking, they’re not specific to one thing. So yes, we think, we see things like black walnut, wormwood, they have more affinity towards parasites and we’re trying to treat the parasite. But there’s other things in a lot of these combinations that you’re really changing your overall microbial balance too. And we’re seeing like, okay, if you’re doing this again, let’s move from that. So we’re saying, okay we do this…. I’ve had people come to me that said, actually,  like I did this parasite cleanse and then that’s when I started feeling really terrible. So we have to just be careful again, where there’s a lot of trends, but what was going on with you individually.

Then the other thing is the detox. Detox is a big topic, and I think you can do gentle cleansing without doing detox. So we can do like anti inflammatory foods, you can eat things like cilantro, you can maybe add some chlorella in. Like there’s things that you can do to gently detox your body in a more just natural way with diet and things like that. But to do the actual detox protocols that are out there:they’re pushing toxins.

So we think of, when we think of detox, we think of a push catch. So you push the toxins, you catch them. So we really do want ideally to have a binder in there when you’re detoxing because we’re moving it out of the cells and we’re saying, okay, we’re mobilizing this. We need to pull it out of your system. There’s toxins in things that, for example, let’s say lead can live in your bones. So sometimes people can have lead exposure when they’re young, it can be stored in the bone. And then it can actually be released as you age and your bones are breaking down for women. So women will have, like the, whenever you’re starting to see some bone changes, we can see some release of toxins.

You can start to see symptoms, but we can see how your body’s protecting itself to store in the bones. Maybe it stores in the fat tissue, it’s storing these toxins and you’re living with them. And we do want to get rid of them, but we need to make sure that, like we mentioned earlier, that you’re having at least a daily bowel movement every day.

So are you actually able to excrete these toxins? Are you drinking enough water? Are you having good lymph flow? Are you having, is your body strong enough? Is your immune system calm enough to say, Okay, I’m not gonna react to this when you give me something like that.

So, we really have to look at, where you are in the strength of your system in order to actually detox in a way that’s going to be effective and do it in a way… I’m very, I’m more gentle. So I often will build people up to, not just go on these big protocols, but like, okay, what can we tolerate?

Let’s see what we can tolerate. Let’s move up from there. Let’s move up from there so that we can do this in a comfortable, natural way that helps reduce toxins. But because it can be… it’s really, you can be putting more stress on your body.

Katie: That makes sense, and doing it in a way that works with your natural detox pathways versus against it. I always like to remind people and to remember myself that the detox isn’t detoxing you, your body is detoxing you. Whatever you’re taking is simply hopefully helping your body’s detox pathways, but like you just explained, can overload them.

And so we don’t want to create more stress by trying to eliminate a stress on the body. And it seems like that gentle approach is wise, especially when it can be more effective to begin with. And I know we’re getting close to the end of our time, but I would love to just briefly also touch on any common deficiencies you see in women, because I would guess as we’re building the triage of these and building more resiliency and health that there are times when, for instance, getting enough nutrition and getting enough basic macros, but also micronutrients of certain kinds, can be really supportive, for instance, in how we make hormones.

Or in how some of these things resolve naturally without the need for exogenous ones. But I would love to just hear, are there common deficiencies you see in women or maybe unusual ones that women may not have even thought to be aware of?

Meg: Yeah, so magnesium is a huge one right now. So we don’t have as much magnesium in our foods. The soil is not as rich with magnesium as it used to be. So that’s, it’s a calming mineral. So that’s something that I regularly see and it can huge. It can be good for regulating bowel movements, it can be good for sleep. It can be good for calm, calming for muscle relaxation. There’s a lot of good effects of magnesium. So that’s one that’s very common.

Another one that is common, and I see a lot of people have low energy is, the B vitamins. So we need B12, we need B6, we need folate. Now a lot of people have, I mentioned that MTHFR genetic variant. So you also have to be careful when you’re supplementing these, are you getting, what form are you getting? And are you taking a methylated B vitamin? So if you’re going to start a B complex, I would say do a methylated form, just making sure that you’re looking at that and you can easily get that.

So it’s not something.. they’re easily available, but I’d say if you’re going to start that, start it in that way. Another one with immune function is vitamin D. So vitamin D can be helpful for immune function and be helpful for mood. It can be helpful for your gut lining, especially in the winter.

If you’re someone who lives in a cold climate, you’re not getting as much sunlight. We wear a lot of sunscreen. So that’s another one that I commonly will see. I do see, generally, if people are more having heavy periods, if they don’t absorb well, we’ll see iron. But you have to be careful with iron.

I wouldn’t recommend going out and taking an iron supplement. Actually you can get that within your food and eating iron rich foods. But I wouldn’t go out and recommend taking a supplement there because we can have too much iron. So when we’re looking at supplementing, you have to be making sure that your body’s not taking too much. So I am more of a targeted supplementer than just like, okay, I don’t love to like load up on 30, 40 supplements because we need to really look at what’s going on and in your unique body. But we do see a lot of people have these.

Another one can be zinc if you’re not eating enough meat. So if you are vegan or vegetarian and you’re really trying to get a lot of vegetables, that’s wonderful, but you can actually be copper dominant. So when we’re looking at some of these nutrients, we can also say, okay, they need to be in balance with each other. So we need to have a zinc copper balance. So what does your diet look like? And maybe if you don’t eat a lot of animal meat, you need to add some zinc in there too.

So yes, those are some of the most common, general ones. I would say if you’re someone who’s looking to improve hormones, the cruciferous vegetables are a great place to start. They’re wonderful for hormone metabolism. Choline, like you said with the eggs, choline is another really. Magnesium, the B vitamins, choline, like what’s in cruciferous vegetables, those are all really good things to start work for hormones.

Katie: Amazing. Well, in both of our episodes, I feel like I truly got a masterclass on the topics, and I’m sure there’s many more directions we can still go. So maybe we’ll get to have future episodes. But for this episode, where can people find you and keep learning from you?

Meg: Yes Well, thank you so much for having me. My website is megmill.com.  I have a podcast called A Little Bit Healthier. Come on over there if you’re a podcast lover and we talk about things. The whole point of that show are things you can do every day in your life that are easy so you can be healthier. And I’m also over on Instagram at drmegmill. It’s just D R M E G M I L L. But I have a lot of free resources over on my website. I’d love to connect with people.

Katie: Amazing. Well, those links will be in the show notes. Dr. Meg, thank you so much for your time. This has been so insightful, and I’ve definitely learned a lot, taken a lot of notes for the show notes, and I’m deeply grateful for your time. Thank you so much.

Meg: Thank you so much for having me.

Katie: And thank you as always for listening and sharing your most valuable resources, your time, your energy, and your attention with us today. We’re both so grateful that you did. And I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the wellness m