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Katie: Hello, and welcome to the Wellness Mama Podcast. I’m Katie, from wellnessmama.com. And this episode will be a deviation from ones that are strictly on the physical side of health, and I think in a really, really good way. I’m here with Dr. Cassie Huckaby, and we talk all about how your life is your medicine, and the power of belief. And she is fascinating. She was in medical school, going into the allopathic model of healing, and then had her own health struggles and was left without answers, which led her into her own path of research, and so much more. She is now a naturopathic physician, and the Founder of Grit. In her own journey, she essentially heal what she was told was impossible, and discovered what she calls unshakable truths that she now uses through her medicine to help other people realize their true potential for optimal health. And ultimately shows them how to obtain freedom from the medical system, including the natural medical system. And her mission is to really demystify healing, and introduce people to the truths of ancient wisdom within themselves.
And I know that sounds a little bit hard to understand from just that explanation, but I think you’ll really enjoy this episode because we talk through her personal story of healing. And we talk about things like why curiosity is one of the most potent medicines there is, and how to approach everything with childlike curiosity. We talk about a different way to think about labs, symptoms, and disease. Why not to let a diagnosis become part of your identity. And we have really, a fascinating conversation around the placebo effect, and what it really shows us as the power of the mind. Essentially, that the fact that every medical study acknowledges the power of the mind through having to control for the placebo effect, shows us just how powerful the mind is. And what if we flip the script and ask better questions about how to use that power of the mind for good instead of trying to control it as if it were a negative variable. She talks about why right and true are not always the same thing. And how truth is something that is undeniable, and that there’s no exception to it. And we talk a lot about something I’ve talked about on here before, which is how to learn to ask better questions and get better answers, as she says, to ask more beautiful questions. And then she talks about the medical miracles she’s seen within her own work and witnessed with people, and the commonalities that she sees among them.
So this one is very mindset and inner work focused, even though a lot of the work she does really helps people with physical problems as well. And I think this is an absolutely fascinating conversation. I hope that you will enjoy it as much as I did. And let’s join up Dr. Cassie. Dr. Cassie, welcome. Thanks so much for being here.
Dr. Huckaby: Thanks so much for having me.
Katie: I’m excited to chat with you and learn from you. And I think a perfect starting point for that actually, if you don’t mind sharing, is your story. Because I think your story illustrates a lot of what you help now so many other people with. And it really is kind of an amazing story. So can you walk us through how you came to do the work that you do now and your own personal story?
Dr. Huckaby: Absolutely. So I’ll try to keep it short and sweet. And I think I love that you start with story because there are going to be commonalities, because we’re all humans, right? Everything is so amazingly unique, but there will be commonalities. And so to listen to that and start applying it, as we have this conversation, I think, so that by the end of this conversation, maybe you can transform. Because my purpose too is, there are no wasted moments. So even with this, try to find things that will feed into you and transform, so that, you know, by the end of the conversation, even your world, your outlook, your mind, can be transformed.
So, my story started with just a typical West Texas kid, grew up not really knowing anything about natural medicine, everything was very traditional, very allopathic. And I just wanted, you know, to be a doctor, so I pursued that route. Went through college, did undergrad, did the whole pre-med, everything, and had my whole little perfect life plan planned out in my hometown, where my whole family lived. And then got vaccinated, and didn’t think anything of it until my health just started spiraling out of nowhere, or what it seemed out of nowhere.
So I grew up on a farm. You know, we raised our animals, we had gardens, we did everything. So I didn’t see it in my family, you know, so when they said it was genetic, that really didn’t make any sense. And so, I basically went to allopathic medicine, because it was the only medicine that I knew. And it was what I was studying and about to give my whole life to. And I went to go seek help. And they basically told me there was nothing they could do for me. They gave me multiple, incurable diagnoses, and basically said they had experimental drugs they could try, but nothing was for sure. And when I asked about the drugs, it just had a slew of other things that was going to happen to my body. And so I was face to face with this pivotal moment in life, where I didn’t know where to go, but I knew that that wasn’t good enough for me. And so, it really cracked my mind, my heart, my awareness, my whole life, wide open to be available for a different level of information. And because of that availability, life came and swooped in, and provided opportunity for me to hear things.
And so at a coffee shop one day, I overheard a conversation about a voodoo doctor in town. And that was the start of everything changing. So I didn’t need any more shadowing hours, but I told them that I did, at this natural clinic. I’d never shadowed at a natural clinic. And after the first day, I knew my whole life had to change. Because…I usually explain it like, it felt like breathing, even though I had been breathing the whole time, but actually finally receiving the oxygen from the breaths that I was taking. I didn’t know why it was familiar. I didn’t know what about it was hitting every part of me, because I had shadowed so many doctors before then and never felt what I felt there.
And then instantaneously knew that not only was my whole life going to change, but I was going to have to change my whole life. So, that catapulted me in the world of natural medicine. I shadowed at that clinic as much as they allowed me there. I was basically a fly on that wall that whole summer. And then I learned about naturopathic medicine.
And I gave up the other, jumped ship, and moved to California to go to medical school. And then the curveball was, even within that program, they still weren’t able to provide what I knew was possible, what I had seen glimpses of at this other clinic. So I had a little bit of heart ache because I had just given up this whole life, everything I had worked my entire life on, this whole dream of being a doctor, and this fantastic thing, because I needed to choose my life. And so, to me, if it was going to save my life, then that’s the medicine I would do. And if it couldn’t save my life, I’d probably go back to the other.
So then when I was in this other world, it was beautiful, and it had beautiful parts to it and things that hit, but it still didn’t have everything. And it still left me stranded, but with more beautiful options. And so then that put me in the most magnificent opportunity, which is now what has created the medicine that I try to convey with words and through education. And that is my life, and altering my life to create the medicine that I was seeking. And so it threw me into… You know, everyone says I’m the wild west of even the natural world. But it threw me into truth. Absolute, ridiculous, unapologetic, just brutal raw truth, because that’s what I needed to undo everything that was going on in my body.
And so, that’s what I jumped into headfirst. And I was ravenous for information. And everything that I did, I implemented in my life. So when I learned something, I implemented it. And that was me in medical school. I went to every certification. I did everything from functional neurology, to every type of IFM, everything. I just thought I needed to learn everything. So I was, like, the number one consumer of any information out there, because I came from not knowing anything, to feeling like I needed to know everything in order to conquer and overcome what was going on in my physical body. And then I also had this part of me that was, like, I never want to have a person come to me and me be like, “I can’t help you.” Because that broke my heart, and I promised myself that I would never, ever, ever give that to somebody else. Absolute futility, loss of hope. And so that was my mission. And because of the beauty of it, by the time I graduated medical school, I reversed all of the incurables that they had handed me. And then had just this massive transformation in what I know to be true about the human body, about symptoms, about disease, about healing, about the power of every individual that is lucky enough to be alive and breathing. And so that is now my medicine. That’s where I’m at. And that’s what led me to this conversation today.
Katie: I love that. And I hear echoes of my own story as well, not obviously being a doctor, but also being told I had Hashimoto’s and that it was not reversible, and that I was going to live with it my whole life. And having a similar idea that that wasn’t a good enough answer. And also reading, when my oldest was only six weeks old, that his generation was going to be the first in two centuries to have a shorter life expectancy than their parents. And it’s no secret that this next generation faces statistically some pretty awful things.
But as a mom, I decided that wasn’t good enough for me, and it wasn’t good enough for anybody else’s child either. And I wanted to help change that. And I love what I hear that thread in your story about, like, approaching it with curiosity. And I think this is such an important theme. And it also seems like you really take into account the individualization and the personalization aspect of each person. Which is definitely a deviation from, as you mentioned, the standard medical model, which is very cookie cutter. But I think very relevant in the natural health world too, and often gets overlooked.
Because I think, at least in my own story, I had times where I was so desperate to figure out what was wrong and to fix myself, I would hear of someone else who had done it, and I would try to latch on to exactly their system and do it exactly like they had, and it wouldn’t work exactly the same for me. And this led to my journey of now saying, people are probably tired of hearing it, but every podcast, I say, we are each our own primary health care provider. At the end of the day, the responsibility lies within each of us.
And while there’s definitely lessons and beauty in every other system, and program, and everything everybody else has learned, at the end of the day, our answers lie within us. And we can learn from things, we can approach everything with curiosity, and we should. But at the end of the day, we are responsible ourselves for those answers. And it sounds like you are one of the beautiful examples of practitioners who become someone’s partner in that process versus their dictator in their treatment. And I’ve heard you say in other interviews that our life is our medicine. And I would love for you to sort of delve into your philosophy on this, because I think it’s a breath of fresh air compared to a lot of other models people might have encountered.
Dr. Huckaby: Mm-hmm, I love that. And I love how you speak there on curiosity, because I would say that curiosity was the one thing that provided the opportunity for me to change my mind. And the mind dictates so many things physiologically, emotionally, psychologically. And curiosity is one of the most potent medicines there is. Because when you go… Even if you’re listening to this conversation here, if you’re listening and comparing it to what you think you already know, you don’t have the opportunity to hear something that you don’t know or you don’t know, in the way that it is actually being conveyed.
Language and words are often a distraction from the truth that’s trying to be conveyed, right? And so that curiosity that you’re speaking of is so powerful. When you go into it and say, what do I not know? Not, how does this compare to what I think I know? And I love that you brought that up because it’s so, so powerful. And that is the medicine that I do, because if I go in, that’s why I don’t believe in a diagnosis at all. And if you go into that model and you lead with that word, you miss the individual that’s sitting in front of you.
And I found that that was on both sides, all sides of medicine. That they took the individual out and they focused on these words. And there’s no curiosity in that. And so if you do not know how the human being in front of you is living, thinking, breathing, how their relationships are, what makes their heartbeat, how many souls they get to love, what they do day to day, and you go in and you treat a condition, you miss the human. And that is where we have to rely on that curiosity, because we have educated ourselves into a concrete way of thinking that is so anti-human, so anti-everything that is true and everything that is available for us here. And so, that curiosity, I wanted to make sure we gave pause to what you just touched on there, is the opportunity to go and be available for something different, to hear it in a different way. And then to, again, just like you were saying too, to apply it to your own life, to your own experience. Because there’s no amount of research that we’ve done on humans that matters to you unless it’s been done on you. It can give you hints, and ideas, and suggestions, and information. But if it wasn’t done on you, it doesn’t necessarily apply to you. And that’s beautiful. And that’s the opportunity that we have here.
So, yes, exactly what you said, your life is your medicine. And I learned this on my own, you know, because I went from being the person that knew everything to know about supplements, and herbs, and light therapy, and IVs, and everything you could think of, peptides, all the latest and greatest. And I was just saturated in all of this stuff. And I could manipulate physiology and biochemistry better than the best. And I was sitting there trapped by the things that I was using. And that’s when I had to pull back and be like, “Why do I need these things?” Not they’re bad or they’re good. Throw it away. Quit looking for bad or good. I want true. What is true? And when implementing a truth, you get a result that’s undeniable, and that is sustainable, and maintains itself.
And so when I started doing this, I started looking how much I needed all of these, I call them inputs. So the perfect diet, the perfect supplements, the perfect herbs, the perfect routine, the perfect everything, to manipulate, and falsely hold my physiology and biochemistry to be the antidote to how I was living.
And when I saw that, I was overwhelmed, frustrated, and then I was very pissed off that I spent so much money getting all the education that I got, and then paid for all of the things that I was just basking in day to day and imprisoned by. And realized that the true work was my life. That just like music, music is the notes and it’s the silence in between the notes. And that’s life too. So your medicine is all of the stuff that you’re intentionally meaning to do to be medicinal, and it’s the stuff that you’re not thinking about. It’s everything.
It’s every breath that you take, every thought that you have, every relationship, every moment, seen, unseen, felt, unfelt, all of it is what is medicating you. And we have proof and evidence of this and how the body interacts with all of these elements in life. But we never put it all together in this wholesome, beautiful package that says it all matters. We think supplements matter and diets matter. And, you know, going into our traumas, and all of the structural work, and all the physical stuff that you can measure with labs and imaging. And we don’t think about all of the other things that also interface, and commune, and conversate with every cell in our body.
And when you look at it through a true lens, yes, your diet matters a little bit. Yes, all of these other things matter a little bit. But so do your conversations with yourself. So do your intentions, your motivations. So do, you know, what you think about before you put your head on your pillow at night. So does every time you touch your child, your spouse, every time you talk to a loved one, every time you pass by somebody in the grocery store. These are all moments that medicate you. And they are going through the filter that is you. And so when you are the filter, you alter what comes in. And if we don’t take you into consideration, you could create the most perfect life, and you would alter the receiving of those inputs. And we know that that is true as well through research and everything that we’ve studied, but we don’t use it in a way that liberates and frees people.
So with my medicine, I started being like, oh, my gosh, it’s not just the diets, it’s Not just how good can I fix a person, because that kept them trapped. When I took away their pain, they didn’t change why they were in pain. And then it turned into something worse. And when I saw that, I had to pull back completely and say, “We’ve got to change the formula, because the formula is not working, it’s not working at all, or we would be free.” So then I realized that sometimes there’s more value and more medicine in being with a person in pain, and showing them why they’re in pain, and giving them the freedom and the opportunity to make decisions on whether or not they’re going to continue to do the thing that’s keeping them in pain, or just anesthetize why they’re feeling it.
And then when you give them that option, it is, just like you said, completely, and entirely, and absolutely up to them. And that’s true health freedom. It is true, you know, informed consent, right, on everything. You have the opportunity to choose whatever it is you want. But the truth of the informed consent is, it’s not just this, it’s what all of your inputs are interfacing with, which is you, your mind, your heart, your soul, your experiences, your body, your relationships, the life that you live, every breath of your life.
And when you look at the human body in this way, you fall in love with the body that you’re sitting in, because it is responding appropriately to every input. And we are medicating how it’s responding. And it’s a trap, and it’s dangerous. And it’s why none of us or most of us haven’t gotten out of this loop. We’ve just went from allopathic to greenwashing it with natural. And we’re all just in this same spiral of confusion, touching truths, but never really settling in on them.
And, you know, that’s why it’s not just something that is just a thing that I came up with, it is the truth. Your life is your medicine, every breath of it, every moment of it. You are your physician, you are the pharmacist, and you are the patient, deciding whether or not you’re going to take what was prescribed. And it is the most amazing dance when you realize it. And it frees you. And it brings this light hearted nature and this feeling of true grace to come back in and saturate your life when you really feel it. And that was the medicine that I was committed to. Because when you see the other, it’s not that it’s wrong or overtly cruel, it’s just that it’s not true.
And so, the pursuit of truth will always free. And that’s what your life is your medicine is. And it’s just this beautiful prescription that just like you even said, every single day, you are sitting there with your prescription pad, and you get to choose what’s on there. And it’s magnificent once you see it and once you feel it.
Katie: You put that so eloquently. And the quote comes to mind, I think it’s something along the lines of, “What I’m certain I know is more dangerous than that which I do not know.” And I feel like I’ve seen examples of this in certainly myself at a time where if the problem is out there, and it’s a lack of a supplement, or it’s this one particular disease, or whatever it is, when the problem is external, we may use, like you said, whatever the means are, drugs, pharmaceutical supplements, to fix that one thing. But if the problem is actually internal, it’s going to pop up somewhere else as something else.
And I’ve seen this happen over and over again with people where it’s like whack a mole, they’ll fix one thing, and then it manifests somewhere else. And I’ve also seen people, to your point, where their diagnosis becomes their identity. And you hear them say things like, I have this or I am this. I love that you brought up the inner voice, because I think the words we say to ourselves are so profoundly powerful. And if the words we’re saying to ourselves are reinforcing, I am sick, or I am broken, or I am this, our physiology will match that.
And I know you can probably frame this much better. But, you know, when we delve into the even the science of it, placebo is one of the most effective things we have. And placebo is based on belief. So understanding that, I feel like there’s so much we can learn from that. And in my own story, I was doing all the spreadsheets, and the supplements, and the labs, and I was dialed in based on every doctor I’d ever talked to, doing everything by the book “perfect.” And it wasn’t until I dealt with the emotional inner side that any of my symptoms resolved. And then it was like those things weren’t even necessary anymore. And I’ve used that quote before that, when I learned to love and accept myself, and the quote was, “I said to my body I want to be your friend. And it took a deep breath and said, I’ve been waiting my whole life for this.” And I feel like that was the moment for me that everything shifted.
And since then, I’ve mentioned that on this podcast several times, and I get of course the follow up questions, like, what specifically did you do? What practitioners did you work with? What therapy did you do? And I’m like, if only it were that easy. The shift was in me. There’s dozens of modalities that might be helpful for you in that shift. But at the end of the day, it comes down to that inner side. So I’d love for you to explain and more on that side, because you’ve talked so beautifully about this. And I know I’ve read some of your work around it.
Dr. Huckaby: Absolutely. And I love that. I do want to touch on one thing with those labs too. Because your labs, if we can think of it in a truthful lens, this was one thing that really started shifting everything that I did. Your labs are a manmade measurable way of summarizing how your body is adapting to keep you alive. And really think on that next time you look at labs. Labs are not showing you what’s going wrong. They’re showing you how your body is adapting to everything that’s coming in, and responding in the most perfect, appropriate way to keep you alive. And that is such a pivotal thing to understand, with regards to really truthfully seeing the truth about the body, and even what we have looked at in medicine, and how we measure things, and how we name things, and how we, you know, attribute meaning to these things that we have the capacity to measure. And so, those labs, I love that you kind of mentioned that too. The labs are not something you fight, just like your body is not something you fight.
Just like what you said, it is, you know, that friendship, but the friendship is understanding the truth of the friend too. Which is, that friend is unconditionally loving you in every moment, no matter if you give it poison, no matter if you harm it, no matter if you criticize it. Whatever you do to it, every ounce of everything that it is, is fighting to keep you alive, and keeping you energized, and keeping you doing the things that you have dictated and spoken to it, to be the most important things to you. And when you realize that that’s the friend that you have, it becomes a romance, it becomes a love story unlike anything you’ve ever experienced. Unconditional love is the language of the body. The body only speaks unconditional healing.
And when you feel that, to call how it’s healing you a disease, to call how it’s healing you, through symptoms, as something wrong, when it’s exactly what’s keeping you alive. We have got to change the story. The story is dictating how we approach our questions, how we approach research, and how we approach the “management” of health in this nation and in the world, really.
And that’s where we have to change because exactly what you’ve pointed out so beautifully here, what is the one thing that all of even allopathic medicine, gold standard, that they all not only identify as being massively significant, but it is so powerful that they have to go jump through hoops to control against it. Every research study done with humans has to control for the power of the human mind and the belief of the human, not just the patient, but the practitioners, because both can alter results.
In that same model that uses that as our gold standard for research, to dictate how we choose to intervene and treat the human body. We are also operating under the naming system that is a diagnosing system, saying you have this, and then with that, we give you a prognosis, an outlook, a forecast on what it looks like for somebody to have what you have, which we made up. It doesn’t make any sense. The whole model goes against itself. And this is where we’ve got to start, again, not looking at is it right? Right? Right and true are not always the same thing. And truth is what sets you free. Truth is what actually creates change, right?
I love how you were using the word fix. A fix is very different than a change. When you are seeking fixes, the person providing the fixing agents, the fixing inputs, the fixing in general becomes more important than you. When you are looking for a change, you are the most important thing in that equation. And that’s what we’re talking about here. When you realize the truth about your body, you do not need fixes. Fixes will keep you stagnant, will keep you stuck on what you’re actually needing to change. And when you change, everything changes. And that’s exactly what we’re talking about here. And you cannot isolate any part of the human body from other parts of the human body. And you cannot isolate any part of the human body from the mind. And you cannot isolate any part of the human mind or body from the heart, from the soul, from the spirit, no matter what you believe.
And so if you’re going to “treat” a human being, and you leave out any of that, I personally think that it’s malpractice. Because we’ve actually acknowledged it within our medical research, that we say is our gold standard, that dictates everything that we teach. And we say that it matters. It matters the most, so much so that we control against it with everything that we do. And then we use it against the people that we’re “helping.”
So this is exactly where we’re at. That’s why everything is spinning. Because when your starting point is flawed, everything downstream from that is operating a little bit off of a truth, which means it’s not true. So even if you have a right answer, it’s not going to get you the results that a true answer would have. And so, this is such an important thing that you’ve brought up. And I love that you even talked about the placebo. We have minimized the most magnificent thing about being a human being. We know that the one thing that can change everything is the power of the mind and the belief. And if you look at the world we’re in, we have fragmented belief more than ever before. Why? Everybody’s an expert, and everybody’s against everybody. You’re carnivore, or you’re keto, or you’re vegan, or you’re fruitarian. And nobody knows what they believe in anymore. And they’re waiting on somebody to believe in something and to put on a show great enough to captivate their attention, to captivate instantaneously their belief system.
So we’re operating on borrowed beliefs. So even our capacity to use one of our greatest medicines is being punctured by the same system that says it’s out there to empower, educate, inform, and “heal” us. And so this, again, is everything that you’re saying here, even from the beginning, the individual is where we change this.
And that’s why, you know, I love what you’re doing with mothers, because I work mostly with women and mothers. I work with men too. But the women that change their lives in front of their children, I know without a shadow of a doubt, that this is where we will change the family unit to such a degree that there will be a generation of kids that someday when you say, “Who is your doctor?” We will someday have a generation of kids saying, “What’s a doctor?” And if we counter those children and say, “Oh, it’s who heals your body.” Again, I believe we will have a generation of kids someday that say, “My body heals. I don’t know what you’re talking about. I don’t need any human to come and heal my body. My body just knows how to heal.” And, you know, that’s why the individual is so pivotal, because I can’t heal anybody. There is no doctor on the planet that can heal anybody.
And if you’re here and you can hear these words, your body is healing, it has been. It doesn’t start when you teach it, it doesn’t start when you tell it to, it doesn’t start when you see the right practitioner, or find the right compound, or find the right diet. It’s always doing it, or you wouldn’t be here. So, we’ve got to zoom out and look at the truth of what is actually going on, the truth of what actually matters. And when you can see the truth, then you can identify, oh, my goodness, this needs to change, this needs to change, and this needs to change. And then that instantaneously takes care of everything that comes off of those major things.
And it’s such a powerful thing to identify where the mind, and the emotions, and the heart, and the soul of a human come in. And I think that it’s number one. If we’re going to control against this part of being a human being in every research study for human beings, what if we used it? Would it demolish the medical system that’s controlling against it? I think so. Right? Will accidents still happen? Probably, because we’re humans and all of these other things. But the health that we’re saying we’re seeking through this model, you would realize you have it.
And if you want to change something in your body, you change something about how you’re living, how you’re thinking, how you’re interacting, how you’re relating. And you know that that will change your body. And I want to simplify this because it probably makes your brain kind of spin a little bit, which is good. That’s new information. But think about this. A truth is something that is undeniable. There are no exceptions to it. And so when you’re operating with truth, I always like to bring in sunshine. I love talking about light and all of these things. But a truth is the same thing as saying, no matter what your skin tone is, no matter what your race is, what your religion is, what your beliefs are, a truth is a truth, is a truth, is a truth.
Meaning, if you are out in light, light interfaces with your skin, regardless of your skin color, and it alters your physiology, regardless of your belief in it. And that’s a truth. And there are so many of these with regards to being a human being on this planet at this time.
And you, however, can alter the receiving of the truth, right? And so that’s what my medicine is. It’s not just wishful thinking, it’s massive truth, massive, you know, simplicity, and understanding, and getting to just the bare bones of what is actually really going on as best we can see it. So, if you weren’t getting tan, and you come to me, I’m not going to go check your mitochondria, your genetic snips, all of these different things. My first question will be, “Do you ever get out in the sun?” And if yes, then I’ve got a slew of other questions. If no, then just like all of these other truths, right, that we don’t have enough time to speak about, then step number one would be, we’ve got to probably go get out in the sun, if the tan is what you’re wanting, or the vitamin D statuses, and all the hormonal changes is actually what you’re desiring. And that’s exactly what I’m talking about when we talk about this, is just like the placebo effect, it’s a truth. It’s happening, it’s working. Every breath of your life, it is working. Are you using it? I don’t know. Are you using it to your advantage?
If you are operating on mainstream thinking, I can almost guarantee that it’s working against you. If you’re operating on intellectual accumulation through science, and research, and all, I can almost guarantee you’re using it against yourself. And so, it’s one of my most favorite topics, so I’m so glad you brought it up because it’s so important. Because when you see the truth about you, when you partner with your body, knowing that anything else is absolutely ridiculous. When you see the absurdity of going against your body, you will see the urgency of the changes that you now know you need to facilitate. And it will be beautiful. It will not be a willpower thing. It won’t be I’m going to manipulate you so you can look, and act, and smell, and be a certain way. It’s just as simple as, if I want to get a tan, I better go get out in the sun, because that’s how this thing works. And I’m not going to be mad at myself if I’m not tan, and I never go outside. And so you really go into relation with your body in a truthful way, which will automatically alleviate a lot of what you were already talking about.
My body is not against me. That doesn’t even make any sense. If anything wanted to kill you, your body could do it the quickest. It could mess up clotting in a split second, even less than that, and you would be done. So, like, think about it. It’s more than your best friend. It is the demonstration of unconditional love. And we just don’t see it. So what you spoke about, you know, with your story, this will be in all stories. This was in my story. And when I saw it, I couldn’t even get mad even when my skin was at its worst. And I was like, “Oh, please, can you heal that? Because I look atrocious.” When I saw that the skin was doing what the skin was doing to save my life. How can you be cruel to that? You can’t. It’d be like being cruel to your child when your child gets hurt and the child crying. How could you be… You couldn’t. You understand it. Of course you’re doing that. And when you see that, it changes everything. And so, you know, I went on a tangent there, but it really takes you to the core of everything that I believe is medicine, which is in the individual, it is truth, it is a promise. It’s an unconditional promise.
And when we embody this, when we live this, and you have your children watching you, that’s the education they need. They don’t need books and all of these other things that have polluted our minds, right? They need to see it in action. They need to see somebody sad. Healthy people are sad. Healthy people get frustrated. Healthy people get mad. Healthy people have symptoms. And if they could see that, and see what it looks like to demonstrate that, to not feel like your body is betraying you, but to know to not betray your body. What a different world?
And then that automatically, without revolt, without force, without manipulation of any kind, would just make you completely disinterested in anything that big business, big pharma, big medicine has to offer you. You’re just completely uninterested. And so everything that you’ve talked about here really is, you know, this beautiful dance that can happen within every individual. And it has to happen within every individual. You can’t do it for your community. You can demonstrate how you’re doing it for you in your community, but your life is your medicine. And this means in all ways. So, my life, and what I choose to do, and my motives, and my intentions medicate me, even in my desire to provide an opportunity for medication, right?
So it’s almost the golden rule of this quantum way of being. Right? And that’s the beauty of it. My work is my work. My life is my offering. And it’s also what’s medicating me. It doesn’t matter what it looks like, it matters what it actually is. My motives, my intentions. If the whole world had telepathy, and could pick apart why I say what I say, why I’m doing what I’m doing, that’s my responsibility. And that’s what medicates my cells. That’s why you can’t be at fault for anything that impacts me. You can give me an opportunity, right? I don’t have to take it. And that’s exactly what you’re saying. We are the only thing that can change us. We are our own healers. We are our gurus. We are everything. And we are the only research study that you need to pour yourself into trying to understand. And when you do that, then your children can look at you and just be in awe of the body. Right? One thing that I love doing with my patients, for me and them first, but even for their children, is change the way we talk about it. Instead of saying, you know, symptoms and disease, it’s a healing expression. It’s not a lie, it’s a truth.
We have captured the word symptom and made it a pathology. A symptom is a demonstration of healing. The flu is a composition of symptoms which are demonstrating healing. Cancer is a composition of symptoms demonstrating healing. Why do we have a different feeling with the word flu versus the word cancer? We’ve gotten mega stories, mega forecasting, mega. So what is true? The word is made up by man, measured by things that man has created to measure certain things that go on in the human body. But across the board, a truth is a truth is a truth. So if the symptoms that you’re experiencing with the flu are healing, a fever, a cough, then we can’t in the same breath say that the symptoms you experience with all these other words that they’ll give you, that are “more severe,” we can’t say, but those are not. So if we can start changing our language with the smaller, it will start helping you identify and ask better questions, which will dictate the actions that you take, which will dictate the responses that you get, right? And so tackle the smaller, of course. When you have a, you know, stuffy nose, when you get a “cold,” the demonstration of healing that we call a flu or a cold, put language around it. This is a healing expression. This is your body doing all of these magnificent things to keep you alive.
How do we know? It doesn’t know anything but keep you alive. It knows nothing else. The word disease… If you had a truthful conversation to the body, the body would be like, “Oh, yeah, I did that.” “Yeah, you made this disease.” “Oh, no, that’s how I’m healing you.” “Oh?” “Yeah.” “But why are you doing it like this? Because I’m so uncomfortable and it looks so bad.” “Well, I have to do this because you’re doing A, B, C.” “Oh, well, then I guess I’ll change A, B, C.” And your body will be like, “Well, then I will change X, Y, Z.” It’s just a one to one.
And when you can start changing your language, so, if anything starts today, when you have a symptom, it’s a healing response. And just sit with that at first, the healing response that is a cough, the healing response that is a fever, the healing response that is a rash. Why might a perfect body choose to utilize a fever? Why might a perfect, brilliant, most magnificent thing on the planet choose to utilize a cough? Does it have a function? Absolutely. How much has to go right in order to facilitate coughing in the human body? You can’t even write it. I couldn’t even write down every step on paper. And I’ve studied it. And it’s even more than that.
And so when you feel this, when you understand it, when you see it, you realize we’ve got to change not just our language, like you spoke to, but our understanding of why we’re using the language we’re using, and how we’re using it, and how we’re thinking, and how we are demonstrating our beliefs because we are demonstrating our belief. So if we speak to our children and say, “These are healing responses, let’s stop it.” And the purity and the brilliance of a child is gonna be like, “But why? I thought it’s what’s healing me.” And then you’re like, “Ah, you’re right. So maybe we have to take a different action.” Right? And so even the simplicity of childlike thinking could deconstruct the entire medical model if you let it.
If you let a child, just with, again, we’ll circle back to curiosity, go have a child, ask questions about the way we do medicine. And if you can say to your child, symptoms are healing, have them go head to head with some of these bigger things, and they will show you a truth. Because you can’t say maybe to a child, you say yes or no. And they’ll be like, why? And if you say, maybe, it’s, is it yes or is it no? For a truth, is it yes or is it no? And with this type of thinking, because, you know, I laugh all the time, my most complex thinking had me the most confused, the most overwhelmed, the most depressed.
And when I threw it all away, started again from ground zero, and looked at it through the simplicity of, you know, the most little cocky, hard headed version, child version of me, she demolished it in under 10 minutes. Easy. It can’t hold, just like what we just did with the placebo effect. If that’s true, then why do we do this? Have a kid ask, sit with your kids, think it through with them. You need their simplicity, they don’t need our complexity. And it’s a brilliant thing that you’ve brought up here with this.
So, placebo is a power that you have, and you’re using it or you’re not. Your language and your belief on why you’re choosing the language you’re using. Right? Your language is a representation of what you believe. And we can change our language and slowly start to alter belief. But you’ve got to know it is deep. Every textbook, every commercial, even seeing our parents, our grandparents, right? These things are being reinforced. The whole world will speak lack, limitation, and weakness, and sickness over you. And it is our responsibility to do the opposite, and to speak power back into our lives because it’s true. And that’s what’s going to change us. And when we change us, that changes our families. When we change our families, we change our communities. When we change our communities, I think we’re gonna change it all.
Katie: I love that. So many points, I feel like, could be their own whole podcast episode. But I love that you brought up that childlike curiosity and how they innately ask why. Because it’s a whole separate conversation, but this is actually why I created an education system for my kids from the ground up when my oldest started school, was because I realized kids come innately with all of these amazing qualities like that curiosity, and like an incessant why, until they actually get to the core of something.
And they’re natural first principle thinkers, they want to understand something at its basic pieces. And then we train that out of them. And instead, what if we enhanced those things? And what if we supported that? And I’ve even told my kids, you know, question everything over and over and over. And at two, my oldest looked at me and said, “Even you?” And I said, “Even and especially me, question everything.” Because I think they’re so brilliant at that.
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And I love that you also really went into the mind side, because we hear so much about the placebo, to your point, and trying to control against it, as if it’s a bad thing.
But my question has always been, if we hear these cases of people spontaneously healing, that medicine rule is an anomaly or an outlier, and we don’t understand it, and so we just discount those. And then we also hear stories of people who are given a prognosis, and they die on schedule. And then an autopsy reveals they never even had the thing they thought they had, but they died because they thought they were supposed to die. Why aren’t we asking the better questions of, how do we learn from that? How do we ask better questions knowing that, to make positive use of the placebo and positive use of the power of the mind?
And to me, I can intuitively pull out pieces, like, if something’s based in fear or force, intuitively, that’s not the answer. And so there’s some, like, kind of guideposts that seem intuitive. But I’d love to, like, go a little deeper on, you know, how do we become better at finding the truth? And how do we ask better questions? Because I 100% echo what you say. Like, I think we are the sum of the questions we ask ourselves and the voice we use when we talk to ourselves. So how do we get better at that inner voice and at the mindset side?
Dr. Huckaby: Mm-hmm, I love that. So that is the work. That is the work that I believe we’re here to do. And the thing that you spoke about too, with, you know, the simplicity of that childlike curiosity, that childlike wonder. One, I think we need to keep that wonder, because what I have seen, even when I was in medicine, what blew me away was we studied disease. Everything we looked at was becoming experts on why the body was wrong, not trying to understand why it was right. And then we would study the body to then go and tell the body how to heal. And I was like, this makes no freakin’ sense. We are studying the body to try to understand and identify how it heals things. And then based off of the language that we are gathering from it, as best we can with our intellect, we are coming up with something to then go and inform a body how to heal. What? Right? And so exactly what you were talking about there. I always tell my patients, make it make sense. My brain is the worst or the best at this. Because when I was in it, I was like, “This doesn’t make sense, guys.” And they’re like, “No, but it’s true.” I’m like, “But it doesn’t make any sense.” Right? And so that’s what I would say. Start incorporating in your, life make it make sense.
And just like a kid, until it makes sense, I wouldn’t make it a law that governs how I choose to think, and live, and experience the life that I’ve been given. I wouldn’t do that if I were just thinking rationally, right? Everyone always wants to come and be like, “Oh, you’re just sparkly and wishful thinking.” I’m like, “No, I am the simplest, most basic, most just make it make sense. And then I will ask further questions once the initiating point makes sense to me. Until that makes sense, everything downstream is just going to be utter confusion.” Right answers, but no truth. And that has no significance for the human being.
So exactly what you’re saying is what I identified when I was getting “educated” in medical school. I was being educated that the body was wrong, even in the world of natural medicine. It was polluted, it was perverted. Because I was like, how are we saying this, and then in the same breath, fixing symptoms, even in the natural world. That was what was so heartbreaking to me. I was like, it’s sitting on this beauty and this truth, and we’ve polluted it, to monetize it. And it’s disgusting. And I don’t think a lot of people that are doing it mean harm, but we are creating harm. And we have to know when you identify… If you’ve listened this far, now you’re going to have to be forced to make some changes in your life, if you’re a practitioner, if you are in the healthcare field, to any degree. And we’ve got to clean up where we’re at. That’s our obligation. That’s our opportunity.
And so that, that you spoke on there, was exactly what pivoted me too, even while I was in the natural world. Because I was like, this still doesn’t make sense. You’re saying that a fever is healing, but then what we call cancer cells is not. You’re saying that, you know, a cough is healing and facilitating mucus exiting the lungs for the betterment of those tissues. And then in the same breath saying antibodies are wrong. Make it make sense. So then I was sitting one day and got a paper cut. And I was actually being kind of negative and, like, not one of my best days. And I, you know, wasn’t eating the best, and I didn’t bleed to death. I was like, I’m gonna sit here and I’m gonna think about this for a second. I wasn’t sparkly, and optimistic, and doing affirmations, and reading all this motivational stuff. And I ate, you know, a slice of pizza, and was just a blob. And I didn’t bleed out right now.
So if we take a child, and we put their wonder and their curiosity on just a paper cut, they would lead you to a ton of truth. Because then you would just ask simple questions. So is your food what’s going to heal you right now? You eating a pizza, you just won’t heal? Mm-hmm, can’t be true. That can’t be true, because I’m still here. If you have one negative thought, one, you’re gonna create a disease in your body, and then you won’t heal, or you’re not healing? No, because I didn’t bleed out with a paper cup.
So you just keep going and you keep going. And literally, this is what… I can’t remember how many months I spent doing this. It demolished everything. And I was laughing and crying at the same time, because I was like, this is so ridiculous. This is so ridiculous. It is absolutely absurd what we have done. And so use your curiosity, because when you come into a truth on your own, try taking that away from you. That’s why people, even when they come at me, they’ll say whatever they want to say, I will not change. I can’t. It would be like someone trying to convince me that these hormonal changes and skin pigmentation alterations don’t come with sun exposure. It does. I’ve seen it. I use it. I’ve measured it. It’s reproducible. Right?
And that’s what I’m talking about with truths, and exactly what your question is here. This is how you do it. Ask more beautiful questions. Our medical model is not based on wonder. It’s not based on the human power. It’s not based on anything other than minimizing everything that is powerful about a human being, so we have an opportunity to monetize what they already have.
It’s a brilliant model. You will constantly be seeking. You’ll never get a right answer, that’s true. You’ll have a million right answers. Everything’s right if you ask it in the right way, if you present it in the right way, it’s the right answer. And then you pair that with well-meaning people, massive confusion, for eternity, that’s profiting the same people, the same industries. And it makes your brain spin. And you’re like, “Ugh, it’s disgusting.” And so exactly what we’re saying here, ask more beautiful questions about yourself. Try to find the evidence of the magnificent. It’s there, but if you’re not looking for it, you won’t find it. So even when I was at my sickest, I had all of these neurological things going on. I had, you know, muscle atrophy, skin, all of this, just It was awful. And I had one shift one day, because I was in the shower, shaving my legs. And I was like, hold on, if enough is going right to make me need to shave my legs, which is not a necessity to my survival, as far as I know, then enough is going right to probably be healing things that are more essential to my survival, but I’m just not seeing it yet. So then I used shaving my legs as evidence that I was healing the impossible, that I was actually curing the incurable in myself, through everything that I was doing, because I locked up with truth. And I wasn’t jumping from here, to there, to there, to there.
I knew what was true. I was implementing truth with massive consistency, every single day. So then the rest was up to my mind. Then I had to look for evidence of healing. Okay, I’m shaving, my hair is growing, my skin is changing, slightly, not what I want it to be, but it is changing. I’m sleeping better. You have to look at the body with wonder and curiosity. And then that’s going to alter the story you have about it because you will find truthful answers, right? Even if you watch a cut, just study a cut. Every time I get a cut, I learn just massive amounts of new information. And, you know, the last time I had a pretty gnarly one, I was just watching it and was like, what? How amazing is it that if this didn’t happen, I wouldn’t even know what healing was because it’s just happening. But until you see it, you don’t even know to put language to it. We would all take it for granted if you never had to heal a cut. And the brilliance on the skin is the brilliance in your liver, your kidneys, your pancreas, your eyes, your nerve cells, your tissues, your bones. It doesn’t just stop at the skin. And so, again, go look at these things with wonder, with that beautiful curiosity of, I wonder why and how? And if that’s true, what else does that mean?
And then that’s going to take you… That’s where I’m still swimming. I’m now in the world of, we are so powerful that we can create an outcome in our bodies, through our mind and our belief, that we might not even need the sugar pill to create the output. What is that saying about the human being? That’s where I’m at now. But most people aren’t even ready to go there because we’ve got a lot of other prerequisites to understand before we can get there. So that’s the beautiful world we have a waiting, right? That is, you know, when I realized in medical school I was studying, not health, but what is a man-made concept, which is disease, which is just a pathological representation of the healing that the body does, if you look at it truthfully. And then I flipped it around and I did exactly what it sounds like you’ve done. I went and read about every medical miracle there was. I went and studied the outliers. If EMF touched 99 out of 100, what was that one doing? I want to talk to that one. I want to see what they were doing. I want to meet them. And then I looked at everything, every opportunity, which are pretty hard to find, right, of all…you can find them if you want to, of these medical miracles, these instantaneous healings.
And it will blow your mind, because some of them are extreme bouts of anger. Excuse me, what? A negative emotion? Yeah. Yeah. It happens, right? Instantaneously. Time doesn’t matter unless time matters to you. And that’s the world that we’re in. But we’re not even to the most magnificent part of us, because we are so busy convoluting and confusing ourselves with stuff that really doesn’t matter at all. And I think that that’s the saddest thing. We’re sitting there, acting like we’re go-karts. And we’re, like, time traveling machines. And we’re not even asking the beautiful questions. And so we don’t have any opportunity to consider these things. And if you’re not asking these questions, you’re not finding the answers to them, or getting anywhere closer to them. We have some pockets of research going to it, but not anything that’s going into how bad and wrong the body is. And if we did, it, like, lights me up, the questions I want to ask. Like, if I had control, if I could run a research lab and stuff, I’d be like, “Hey, I’ve got a question. And how quickly can we do this?” Because even with working with people, I’ve had women with no thyroids, have, you know, according to allopathic measurement tools, which are labs, normal labs, without drugs.
How? I don’t know. If somebody could go research those women, we’d learn a lot, we’d learn a whole lot. I’ve had people in a visit, change everything. Not because I touched them, not because I did anything, because they saw a massive truth and everything in them shifted. And the one thing that I will say that I think ties into this conversation beautifully is, the handful of people that I would say would fall into the category of medical miracles that I’ve got to be a witness to and a part of. The one thing I started writing down what happened on the other side of all of them. And the one thing that was the visual was they became so innocent. Like, doe wide, peaceful… Like, somebody just took away decades in an instant. Their whole face just settled. It was like peace just washed over them. And then on the other side, every single one of them said this, looking at me, “Now what?” And it would bring me to tears every single time because I would say, “Exactly. Now your supplements don’t hold the weight that they once held. Now your devices are irrelevant. Now everything that used to imprison you doesn’t exist anymore. With that life, now what? What are you going to do? What are you going to give your voice to? What are you going to think about? What are you going to research? What are you going to do with your loved ones? How are you going to spend the rest of this life that you have?”
It’s like taking a person off of Earth and putting them on Mars. And it’s brilliant. If one person can do it, every human can do it. It’s a truth. It’s not just a select few, it’s everybody. How do we access that? That’s a more beautiful question. How do you access that? That’s a more beautiful question. What’s in between you and the realization of a reality like that? That’s a better question. Let’s go answer those. And when you get an answer to that, then it’s completely up to you to implement what’s required to facilitate a change. And when you change, everything changes. And that’s the brilliance that we’re sitting in. And that’s your opportunity. My thing is, let’s not wait for research to tell us this, to live it. Right? Research should be coming and knocking down our doors. And it’s not. Medicine doesn’t care really about these things. Because when you realize you have everything that you need, and that life has given you all the medicine that you could ever possibly need, everything else becomes insignificant. So why give power to the most powerful part of being a human being if you are invested in monetizing an illusion? You’re not going to research it. So, go look at what is hinted towards. There are truths in research. That’s what I spent a lot of my time doing too, because I was obsessed with research.
So then I was like, what if I go and look at this stuff that they’re not saying? And you’ll be blown away. Exactly what you’ve said here with even the placebo effect. It was in every research study. Every research study since we discovered the placebo effect, has proven the magnificent power of the human being, without supplement, drug, device, surgery, procedure, protocol. But they won’t tell you that. And it’s right there in front of your face. Right? I say it all the time. The hardest keys to find are the ones in your hand when you’re frantically searching for the answer. And that’s where we’re at. That’s exactly where we’re at. And that’s our opportunity.
Can we imagine, you know, even just whoever gets to listen to this and be in this conversation that we have had today. And you started simplifying, making things make sense, asking more beautiful questions. And when you find those truthful, beautiful answers, living it, with your life. Not just talking about it, living it, and then you are in of one, a research study, never seen before, actualized. We don’t need medicine to tell us what’s possible for us. It’s possible. How do I know? Because I’m living it. I’m living it. And everyone’s sitting in that. So what’s getting in between you and that? Discomfort? You know, mostly just discomfort from what I’ve seen. Fear, right?
Those are exactly the questions I would go into, and exactly like you said. If you have to be coerced, and manipulated, and lured in, and dazzled for a solution, I would pause. What is true will quench your thirst, even if you’re not told that it quenches thirst, right? You’ll feel it. You’ll know it. That intuition, that inner compass that we all have, that we’re all separated from. That’s it. Right? And so, I love that you brought this up, I love every place that you’ve taken this because it is it. And that’s what I came across in my journey. Like, how do you put words to this? You try the best you can, but you live it, and when other people live it, right? It’s like, if you and I were trying to explain chocolate, it’s like, well, it makes you happy. Some people love it. Some people hate it. It’s not vanilla. It’s not coffee. And like, I don’t get this chocolate thing. Like, taste it. Right? And that’s exactly where we’re at with this. But these concepts, these questions that you’ve asked today, were exactly the questions that I asked. And so I would actually encourage, you know, everyone to go into them on their own, with their own mind, their own heart, their own stories, their own experience. And what could we come up with that’s more true than everything being sold to us? That’s, you know, the opportunity I think we have.
Katie: I love that. And I know there’s so much more we could cover than we could fit in one hour today. So maybe we can do a round two one day. But I think this was such an amazing conversation and a beautiful starting point. And hopefully maybe helps people shift from the idea that if the problem and the solution is always out there, it can always shift and we may never find it. But if the problem and the solution is internal, and the questions are part of the answer, then we get to start to have those conversations internally. And it gives us then the power to actually affect the change that you’re talking about. And I love that we got to go in so many of these different directions. I do hope we get to do a round two one day. I will make sure I link to your website in the show notes so people can find you and keep learning from you. But another question I love to ask at the end of interviews is if there is a book or a number of books that have profoundly influenced your life. And if so, what they are and why.
Dr. Huckaby: I love that. A previous version of me would have had a whole list. And then I threw them all out. And I have fallen in love with listening to words and hearing things that seem to come from no source. And that now is what I’m absolutely infatuated with. And where I think I’ve seen the most shift in myself was when I quit that seeking, right, and went in a different direction or just was available for information that was wanting to come through me, right? I think the question that I asked was, what words and what way of seeing our mind. And not…they have no trace of some other experience in them. And that was really what changed a lot for me. So I loved reading, and I loved learning, and I loved poetry. David Whyte is one of my favorite poets. So if you like poetry, check him out. But putting the books down was probably the greatest change within the seeking of information for myself.
Katie: I love that. That’s a beautiful answer and one I haven’t gotten before. And I’m very grateful to you for sharing your story and all that you’ve learned from your story today, and for sharing all the work that you’ve done with so many people. Like I said, I’ll put resources in the show notes so that people can find you and learn more from you. But thank you so much for your time today.
Dr. Huckaby: Thank you for everything that you do and everything that you promote.
Katie: And thanks as always, to all of you, for listening and sharing your most valuable resources, your time, your energy, and your attention with us today. We’re both so grateful that you did. And I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the Wellness Mama Podcast.
If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.
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