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Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.
This episode is sponsored by Manukora Honey, and I don’t use a lot or pretty much any sweeteners in my house or in my life with the exception of honey. And so I have become quite the honey aficionado over the years, and I absolutely love this one in particular. This honey, this Manukora Honey is rich and creamy. It’s got a complexity of flavor that not a lot of other honeys have, and it has some extra health benefits. So aside from the honey I harvest from my parents’ backyard right by my house, this is the other only honey that I love to eat because of its taste and also the benefits that it has. Now, I love honey actually in the morning first thing for a burst of energy after I get some protein or right before bed with a sprinkle of salt. This is a quick tip. It really helps my sleep. Of course, it’s also delicious to add to any beverage or food. And I find that the clean energy of honey is my favorite sweetener by far. But here’s what makes Manukora Honey different. It’s ethically produced by Master Beekeepers in the remote forest of New Zealand. And it’s a particular type of honey that contains powerful nutrients that specifically support immunity and gut health. The bees here collect their nectar from the Manuka tree in New Zealand. So the nectar is packed with bioactives and the honey that is produced has three times more antioxidants and prebiotics than the average honey. It also has a special antibacterial compound called MGO and it comes from the nectar of this tea tree as well. Manukora third-party tests every single harvest to make sure it contains MGO and makes these results available through their QR system so that you can see them as well. So I love this, honey. It’s a game changer. And all you really need is a heaping teaspoon each morning to get the most out of the benefits. I especially love this just as an all-around support and immune support in the winter. So basically it’s honey with superpowers and incredible flavor, and you can try it easily, easier than ever. Head to manukora.com/wellnessmama to save 25% off their starter kit, which comes with an MGO 850 plus Manuka honey jar, five honey travel sticks, a wooden spoon, and a guidebook. That’s manukora.com/wellnessmama to save $25 on your starter kit.
This episode is brought to you by Alitura Skincare. And I have known Andy, who’s the founder of Alitura, for many years now. And I had him on my podcast to share his story of his recovery from a car accident that left him with internal injuries, a broken jaw, and all kinds of skin lacerations. Truly out of desperation to repair his own facial scarring, he began making his own natural skincare products at home, and Alitura was born. Andy knows how important it is not only to use clean ingredients, but to proactively use ingredients that will benefit and support the skin. So every component is pure and made with organic ingredients sourced from the far reaches of the globe with Tyne-honored history. I truly have never seen anyone be as absolutely careful and well-researched and meticulous in their sourcing as Andy is with Alitura. Their handcrafted skincare products are made from ingredients sourced in Hawaii, and bees native into the area accelerate the pollination of flowers, which form the base of many of their unique blends. And their secret really is in the formulation, which Andy has absolutely dialed in. This is fueled by his personal passion to meticulously source the time-tested best ancient skincare remedies, and he discovered a fascinating assortment of plant botanicals that are truly medicine for the skin. They package everything in Miron glass, which is a high-quality material sourced from the Netherlands that blocks artificial light to preserve the quality of all of their products. And the special glass is used in place of synthetic ingredient preservatives for top-grade quality. Their products contain zero filler or toxic ingredients that harm your skin, and every ingredient serves a purpose. So what started as a natural healing journey for Andy after facing a life-threatening accident has become a premium quality natural skincare collection that is celebrated by over 100,000 people worldwide, including me. I absolutely love their gold serum if you’re going to try anything. And the mask is absolutely amazing. Check out all the products at wellnessmama.com/go/alitura and use the code wellnessmama for a discount. So again, that’s wellnessmama.com/go/alitura. Make sure to use the code wellnessmama for a discount.
Katie: Hello, and welcome to the Wellness Mama podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com, and I am thrilled to be back today with Dr. Cathleen King, who is a physical therapist and a neuroscience-based mind-body practitioner whose focus is helping people with chronic illness and in trauma healing. She is the founder and CEO of Primal Trust, and in this episode and our first episode together, she pulls together concepts of healing that I feel like are not even understood, certainly not discussed enough, and even when they are, not in a tangible way that helps people understand the path of walking and resolving these things that we talk about.
I absolutely love her explanations in today’s episode. We talk about healing, perception, developing our deep primal trust in our bodies, taking personal responsibility of our healing, and so much more. We talk about how it’s the internal versus external factors and how and why we often look externally for the answers rather than internally. She talks about how perception is key for retraining the body, the inner shifts that lead to outer healing, including some incredible stories of how this has happened in many cases of people that she’s worked with, and so much more. We talk about chronic conditions, about the correlation between certain conditions and certain inner conflicts, acknowledging that illness is actually serving us and learning to cultivate those benefits without the experience of illness, asking and understanding for what purpose is this happening, and developing a deep trust and communication with our bodies that creates the conditions for us to resolve whatever conflicts we’re having with our health. I very much admire Dr. King’s work. I think you will learn a lot from this episode. I certainly did. So let’s join her now. Dr. Cat, welcome back. Thanks for being here again.
Cathleen: Thanks for having me.
Katie: Well, if you guys missed it, our first conversation, Dr. Cat was absolutely amazing. I will link to that in the show notes as well. We dove deep on the topic of cell danger response, which is something I feel like might even be a new concept for a lot of people. And you explained in an incredible way how that relates to our experience and capacity to heal and how often this may be as a massive missing step for a lot of people. I didn’t even know it was called that, but in hindsight, I know that was a big step for me. So I love that you make that journey so tangible for people and have so many resources around it.
And I’m excited to learn from you again in today’s episode on the topic of healing, like our perception when it comes to this and the internal versus external factors. I feel like this builds perfectly on our first conversation because you kind of walked us through first principles in our first episode about how our mindset and our perception and our nervous system and all these factors come into play in such a big way. And it seems like many people are looking for the answers to healing outside of themselves rather than sort of internal. I know this is a big topic as well, but maybe you start with explaining the connection between our perception of the environment, emotions, and our physical well-being and kind of and we’ll go from there.
Cathleen: Yeah. So in the last episode, I briefly mentioned how our immune system is often representing the way that we view and approach our world, our own bodies, our relationships. There really is not a lot of difference in the way we live our life and the way our body is functioning.
And so if our perception, let’s just say the environment, is that it is dangerous, whether that means that you are afraid of things like mold and toxins, or you’re afraid of the people in your environment, or both, your immune system, that’s a vigilant perception, right? That is like, I’m not safe, there’s danger here, and something bad might happen to me.
Your immune system will respond in much the same way. It will become very overreactive to your environment and to things from your environment that come into your body. And what can happen is there is this cross wiring that can occur in the limbic system, where the limbic system starts to perceive threats everywhere. And also, whatever you’re bringing in, oh, that’s also bad. And you’ll develop hypersensitivities or food sensitivities, toxin sensitivities. And you might not even be able to tolerate the most minute amount of a mold, spore, or dust, or dairy, or whatever, because your set operating mode is that this is really unsafe.
And so, whereas another person, they might be like, eh, this doesn’t sit well, but they have way more tolerance for being in that moldy, dusty, smelly environment than you do, because their immune system is not, you know, it doesn’t have all of its guns aimed at these things. So, perception is key for retraining the body to calm down in its overreactive response if that’s something that you’re dealing with.
Katie: Yeah, I love this. And I am excited to break down this topic just like we did with the cell danger response in the first one, because I feel like this one, maybe people perhaps have heard of, or at least understand a little bit of, but it also maybe feels intangible or we don’t really understand how one would even begin to go through the process of sort of undoing that and sort of healing our perception.
And I know there’s a lot too that comes into play here, but maybe walk us through, are there specific practices that you have people start with? I know you have quite the journey yourself with this as well.
Cathleen: Yeah. This is a journey. Being able to shift your perception of something that feels dangerous is, you know, it’s quite a task for all of us. We’re having to fight against ancient survival mechanisms of our brain and body to do this. So I just, first of all, want to say that this isn’t always easy, the things that I’m saying. And I know for me, like there are things I’m still working on shifting. I am not free of perceiving danger by any means.
First of all, it is super important that you recognize that when you’re having body reactions to things or to people, you’re often stuck in story. I often call it a mind theory where you have an idea of what something means and you’re not able to distinguish between your story and your actual experience. And the problem with that is that when your mind is engaged with story, that keeps your limbic system overreactive. And when your limbic system is staying active, your body’s ability to process that thing goes way down.
We know this from the world of emotional processing. You cannot process an emotion that you have resistance to. If you are playing the story that they are being mean to me, that they don’t like me, and I’m feeling all this anger, that anger is not going to process through your body until the story is let go of because the story keeps you resistant to the emotion in your body.
The same thing with physical symptoms, the same thing with our health. When we have stories that I am a victim of Lyme disease or mold toxicity or this autoimmune condition, and this thing has happened to me and oh no, this means I’ll never get better, or this means X, Y, and Z. Your body’s ability, to process what’s happening, maybe it is having an immune reaction, maybe it is having some struggles with detoxifying. It’s ability to do what it needs to do to resolve that is going to be hindered by your brain’s perception of constantly focusing on what’s wrong because you’re not going to send a signal of safety. The danger is over. It’s time to repair through the body when your perception or your story or your mind theory is active.
So the first thing, is to start to cultivate a conscious awareness of when your mind is stuck in story, when it’s stuck in meaning, when it’s stuck in resistance, when it’s saying, oh, this symptoms means my Bartonella is acting up again. You have no idea what’s acting up again. You really don’t. Don’t make the stories up because it doesn’t help you heal. And I’m only saying all these things that I did. So I’m not trying to shame anybody. This is just saying what my brain did and it made it difficult.
So I had to learn how to just be with the feelings, the symptoms, the sensations, the emotions, and start to put a boundary around what my mind was doing, the meaning it was making. That is the beginning of brain retraining and neuroplasticity. It’s creating boundary around the thoughts and perceptions that are not going to allow you to send a signal of safety through the body so that you can process what’s there. So that would be the first thing.
Katie: Oh, I love the way you explain things so well. And it seems like there is that story, that meaning making piece. I’ve heard other people call it kind of like the mythology we create to create meaning around what our experience is and how like our body actually might not know the difference at all between the meaning we’re creating and the reality of what we’re experiencing. And certainly as you were explaining that, I was seeing parts of my story in the past and how that played out for me. And I’ve seen examples of this even in loved ones that I know very well who it’s like seemingly there’s a health problem and they maybe take all the supplements and do all the things and resolve that thing. And then the next thing immediately crops up. And it seems like when there’s this story underlying and they’re not addressing that, it can be easy to see how that pattern would just sort of keep happening.
And as you were talking about this as well, it seems like there’s a level of personal responsibility that has to come online with taking responsibility for that story or at least becoming aware of it. So I guess I would love to hear how that ties in and also like what is then the next step? And I can imagine that even just learning to take or to have awareness of the story can be a massive step for so many people.
Cathleen: Yes, you’ve definitely hit the nail on the head. This is a journey of discovering the hero inside of you and moving out of the victim triangle that we are programmed into a lot of times with our medical system. I often say that we often end up sick, feeling victimized by our body or by the environment or got bit by a tick, waiting for some external force, a savior, a rescuer to come in and give us the pill, the program, the protocol to fix us.
And I wish that it was that easy, but it’s not. It is an absolute quantum leap inside of you to take responsibility for the body sending you the signaling it is. The illness is a messenger trying to get you to come back into alignment on your path. Trying to get you to see things that have been suppressed that need to be met and healed, trying to get you to stop fighting yourself, stop fighting others and come back into connection.
I see illness as a big representation of disconnection, often in a family system, often generationally, often with yourself. And the body is basically like, making you accept that which you don’t want to, which is like the thing you’re trying to fix. You’ve got to learn how to accept this reality and that responsibility of meeting the body in a very intimate way when it’s doing things that you don’t like.
And how does that represent like how you live in general of rejecting things about you or others that you don’t like? This is a massive opportunity for awakening for building a level of self-esteem and self-love that would not be possible otherwise.
So I see these symptoms of like, okay, my body is representing this, this state where I have not been attending to myself properly, where I have not been caring for my body and sending signals of safety and love and acceptance over time. And that the immune system, you know, it’s trying to keep up with all of these things. And eventually there’s just this tipping point. It can’t keep up anymore with the level of either suppression or upset or blame or anger or whatever that might be there consciously or unconsciously.
And it’s just a really deep process of I choose to be responsible for the meaning that I’m making, and I choose to think greater than I feel and not even think. I choose to be present with what is and accept reality as it is and stop fighting it. In that acceptance of this is what it is, you might be having some horrific brain fog and neurological stuff and all this scary stuff that might be going on.
This is the reality as it is. And it’s the responsibility of I’m going to be here with me and feel the feels without the meaning and attend to this body and start to listen to it and stop rejecting it. Maybe for the first time in my life, to have things that are wrong and not try to fix it, what signal does that send deep, deep inside of us to the part of us that has always felt like something’s wrong with us?
You said like the friend who like fixes the one thing and then something else comes up. And it’s because the underlying set point is that there’s something wrong with me that needs to be fixed. That has not been attended to. So the body’s going to keep mimicking that reality in a million ways. You’re going to fix something. But if the underlying set point is there’s something wrong with me that needs to be fixed, it will come out in another way over and over again.
Katie: Oh, I feel like, yeah, you just touched on something so important and so often overlooked. And especially it seems like in a lot of aspects of conventional medicine, almost the opposite is reinforced. Like we’re given so much evidence that something is wrong with us and that we can’t heal on our own and that we need these external factors to swoop in and save us. And I love that you, you know, question the beliefs below that and kind of really, you know, strike at the first principles of that.
I think anything that comes after the words I am is incredibly powerful. And I learned this the hard way as well. And even learning little things like shifting from saying I am sick to I am healing felt so different in my body. Or not saying my body is attacking itself, but saying my body is always on my side. And even just shifting that mindset into like, oh, it’s doing this because it’s on my side was an entirely different experience, even though nothing physically that I was doing changed, my experience of everything started to change.
And I feel like you are walking people on this path on an even deeper layer. And it seems like, this might be the missing piece for so many people, because I’ve seen and experienced myself, you know, we can eat what quote unquote, the perfect diet. But if we’re doing it in a state of fear, or thinking that everything is bad for us, we’re going to have a totally different bodily experience of that. Whereas we could be eating something that we could define as quote toxic. But if we’re doing that from a state of resilience and gratitude, we might be completely fine. And so I feel like you are like really touching on something that’s so vital, and really applicable to all of us in some form.
Cathleen: Yeah. And again, I’m still learning this. There are layers, sneaky little layers of wanting something to be different than it is that I’m learning from. And I think that statement right there, wanting something to be different than it is, is the fight against reality. And that creates a signal of danger in the body and in your life.
And so for me, this is a journey of reconnecting, accepting, and being with what is over and over and over again, every single day. And that will help to reframe your entire narrative around your illness. Like you said, if you’re like, oh, I’m never going to get better. These things always happen. Why does this always happen to me? That was my, gosh, I feel like my body is cursed. There’s always something.
And finding a way to reframe. I am still learning how to be with what is my body is trying so hard to defend itself. And I want to teach it safety deeper and deeper every day. My body’s still learning how to trust life itself.
You know, my whole, obviously motto, the name of my company is Primal Trust. Why is that? Because when I was in my healing process, I had a sound therapist do this sound healing ceremony on my body. And she had these bowls on my body. And she was striking this bowl. And I felt this vibration on my body that was like bliss. It was like, oh, that’s the feeling that I know would heal my body because it felt so safe. And I was like, what is that? She said, oh, the name of this bowl is called Primal Trust. It’s also known as the Schumann’s resonance or the Earth’s heartbeat.
And I wanted to learn like, what is that resonance? Like, what is that frequency that I could maybe produce? And it is connection with life itself. Like that was the frequency. It was this Schumann’s resonance. It’s the Earth’s, it’s our connection with life.
And so I went on a path to try to create trust in life itself, even when this is happening, this new symptom is happening, this thing’s happening with my child, whatever is happening, saying, okay, yes, this is happening. How can I be with it? What needs to be processed in the moment? It doesn’t mean that you always like it. This is important. It means that you’re with what comes up in that experience. It might be grief. It might be fear. It might be anger. I’m not saying, oh, be happy in every moment. Absolutely not. That’s spiritual bypass. It is being with life as it is, being with the symptom as it is and not giving it the meaning and finding a way to say to that symptom, you are part of me, and I am part of you and I am right here now in this as an aspect of yourself and watch, watch what happens to your biochemistry. When you string those moments together, I am here with this as it is in all of its messiness. And that’s where I see radical changes happen in the body.
Katie: Well, I love the name and where it came from. And I would love to hear, because I know we’ve talked about sort of the concept of this, but you’ve worked with so many people and there’s some incredible stories that have come out of this. I think if you’re willing to share for people listening, some examples of the incredible transformations that take place, even in people who have the experience of chronic illness, when they’re able to start shifting in this way.
Cathleen: Yeah. Well, I’ll speak to some of the themes that I see with people who heal. And we do, we have just amazing testimonials, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of testimonials of people healing from all sorts of things. But there’s some themes that I see about what causes that shift.
Number one, this is the hardest one. You let everybody off the hook. And you start attending to yourself. Stop blaming what’s happened, what they’ve done, what they’ve said on your current situation that might have happened in the past. And I know firsthand, I was raised in a lot of trauma. I know what it’s like to be hurt. But right now, what’s happening, if you can’t let people off the hook and attend to your feelings, you’re allowing that abuse trauma to continue. You are allowing it. You are not putting a boundary in it. The boundary comes from your own mind of, I accept that that thing happened, and I choose to learn how to respond to life, to retrain my brain and body to respond differently, even though it did happen.
So people take that radical responsibility and they start attending to their own feelings and stop blaming people. That right there, I see massive shifts in digestive health. If I was going to say the digestive health, that part of the system, when you resolve this territorial conflict inside of you, that’s a big change. So I would say digestive symptoms and letting go of what has happened and attending to the feelings and processing the anger is big.
I see, when people choose to live their values or what they love, even though they’re sick, I see massive shifts in mitochondrial function improvement because the mitochondria, think of it this way, that’s your energy production of the body. And I see things where when somebody’s life path gets off their true path, the mitochondria is basically like, what are you doing, spending your energy doing that when you hate that?
Over time, a protection mechanism deep in the psyche will come in and kind of clamp down that energy production. Now this is theory, but it’s sort of what I see. Meaning maybe chronic fatigue syndrome sets in because you said yes too many times when you met no, you went into that career that you actually hate because your dad wanted you to. So that is using your fuel in a way that’s out of alignment.
Now, when I see people get in touch with what they love, their true north, their true choice, and they start doing those things, even little bit by little bit, I think that there’s a signaling sent all the way down into that mitochondrial level saying, yeah, this is what I want to use my life for. This is what I love. Hey, everybody, let’s get our factories up and going and making more energy because we’re now doing what I love again. And I see a shift in life force and people crawl out of chronic fatigue syndrome.
I see when people repair connection with often, especially like mother line stuff I see the immune system of self versus other start to heal. And I think that there’s a huge correlation with chronic Lyme disease and chronic infection when we’ve had family disconnect. And when we reconnect and we establish our rightful place in that family line and have a sense of belonging, even though we’re different from them, that there’s an immune intelligence that comes back online.
Again, these are theories based on interviewing lots and lots of people, but I see shifts there. So choosing to heal, and this is a path I’ve had to do with my mom, we’re very different, very, very different. But I find how I belong in that line while I get to be my own self and respect the life that gave me life, if only for that, and restore a type of energetic connection and signaling in my body.
So those are a few things that I would say that are a little on the, you know, quantum end, but I want to bring it in because I see a truth to it over and over again.
Katie: Yeah, as you were saying that, I could feel like resonance even within myself with certain of those things. And I would guess parts of our journey probably are similar with especially the mother line stuff potentially as well. But I loved what you touched on, especially with releasing blame. I think that’s huge and maybe a big one. I know that was a big one for me and also getting in touch with what we love. Because something I’ve thought a lot about is and had to acknowledge and take responsibility for is even when I was, quote unquote, sick and had the experience of Hashimoto’s, my body was on my side and there was a part of that that was actually serving me in that I was able to take breaks. I was able to set boundaries that I didn’t have the ability to set, but my illness set them for me and things like that. And I think often it’s hard to look at that. It’s an uncomfortable thing to look at. But even like we are still sort of benefiting. There is a benefit to us in that illness. And that like for me, at least acknowledging that and releasing it or being able to source that from somewhere else other than those, that’s the experience of illness became important in releasing the illness itself as well.
Cathleen: I think you just spoke deep wisdom, truly. What you just said is so spot on and we get so mad at our illness and it does exactly what you said. Our body will make our unconscious needs met in one way or another. If we do not have enough conscious autonomy, sovereignty to stand for what we need, the body will do it often in dysfunctional ways. And if we can look back and say, how is this for me right now that I get to say no, because I have something to justify it, that is a lab diagnosed reason, how does that serve me? And what would it be like if I didn’t have that diagnosis or that lab test to justify saying no and watch how hard it is for you to say no without that because I don’t feel well behind it. It was really hard for me.
And that is a key insight. When you can say to the body, I see your needs. I’m going to find a higher and better way of meeting these needs that’s independent of this justification, this diagnosis. I’m going to find a higher and better way of loving myself, of nourishing myself, of feeling worthy to rest simply because I’m alive and I deserve it as a being. And I’m going to cultivate that inner care for myself. Your body will respond.
When I first started to heal, I knew these principles, but then I started a business. I want to share the story because I think it’s important. I started getting really busy again, because that’s what happens. I’m sure you relate, you get busy, the body’s like, did you learn anything from what we just went through? And I would get debilitating POTS early on, which is postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, where my blood, I just had to like lay down. It would literally force me to lay down, this was super early when I very first started coaching. I wasn’t fully well yet, but I was starting to coach, but I would make too many appointments.
And eventually I was like, okay, body, you’re want, you’re obviously the symptom is you’re making me lay down where it’s hard for me to even show up. And I started to ask for what purpose are you doing this? What purpose is getting met? And I felt this little voice that says, you’re doing it again. You’re making all these appointments and you’re not taking care of me like you were when I, when I was sick. I was like, oh, and it showed me like an image of my schedule. It’s like all these people.
And I said, what if body, I schedule a two hour break and I only take two appointments and then one after, what would that feel like? Okay. As soon as I put that in my schedule, the POTS went away. No joke. My body was like, she heard me. She heard the boundary. She’s honoring this. And so every time it starts to do that, and it’s usually the same thing, I get too busy. Okay, body, what do you need me to bring in so that you’re getting your need met? Yeah. Like I said, what you shared was deep wisdom and that would be my example of that.
Katie: Oh, I love that example. And I think especially maybe for women, but really for everyone, this is a hard thing to learn. It certainly was very difficult for me because no one argues with you when you say you can’t because you’re sick. But it’s much harder to have that boundary with kindness and firmness behind it to just simply say, no, that doesn’t work for me, or I’m not available for that. And to be resolute in that and like without the conflict internally. And I know that was like certainly a learning experience for me. And I would guess many women experience some version of that at some point in our lives, just with that boundary setting doesn’t necessarily get taught to us in an easy way at a young age. And it’s maybe something we get to learn as we walk this experience of life in different decades.
But I have resonated so much with all of these things that you talked about. And I know you have so many resources available. I hope that you’ll come back again on this podcast at some point, because I feel like there’s so much more to learn from you. But any kind of key takeaways you would love to leave people with today or baby steps to begin with, if they resonated with everything you explained today and, or I’ll put links in the show notes, but what resources can I put people toward if they want to continue learning from and with you?
Cathleen: Yeah, sure. So a final thought would be to think of this journey as developing the most beautiful mother-child relationship with your own body. Sit with your body and start journaling, asking it questions like, what needs are you getting met by this? Like you’re asking a child and what would be, and I ask this to my own kids often, like, what needs do you have that I’m not meeting for you right now?
And I’m always surprised that they have these things. And so I have to ask frequently because I don’t realize my blind spots in meeting their needs. And I don’t realize it in my own body. I just did it this morning again. I was like, what needs? And it’s like, I want more nature time. Oh, gosh, I’ve totally forgotten about that. Thank you for reminding me.
So speak to your body as a child and you as its mother, and you will develop, there’s an instinct in there and it will come online and you’ll develop a communication where the symptoms don’t need to be the messengers because you are listening as a habit to the body. So I’d say that as my final.
Resources, primaltrust.org is my website. I have a free resources section. I mentioned this in the last podcast, this book, I highly recommend downloading. It’s free. It’s called How Healing Happens. It’s 130 pages. It goes over everything that I teach primarily for free. And I have a great Instagram channel as well, primaltrust underscore official and a YouTube channel. Lots of ways of getting lots of free resources and getting my thoughts on these things. And of course, you know, I have a whole community where we work through these things intimately together.
But I just want to say that this is such an opportunity to step into the version of you that is so self-loving and can be an example for people around you to heal not only your body, but your family lineages. And I wish each of you that opening beautiful expansion that’s available through learning how to speak with the body.
Katie: Incredible. Well, I will put all of those resources in the show notes for any of you guys listening on the go. Dr. Cat, I am infinitely grateful that our paths have now crossed. And for everything you’ve shared today, like I said, I hope we get to have more conversations in the future. But for today, thank you so much for your time, for your wisdom, for your passion, for helping others, and for everything that you’ve shared.
Cathleen: Thank you. It’s really great to be here.
Katie: And thank you, as always, for listening and sharing your most valuable resources, your time, your energy, and your attention with us today. We’re both so grateful that you did. And I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the Wellness Mama Podcast.
If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.
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