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Hello, and welcome to the Wellness Mama Podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com, and this episode is with Dr. Molly Maloof, and it’s about something called the Adamo Method and the science of love and connection and sexuality. And I love her perspective on a lot of these things. She provides health optimization and personalized medicine to high-achieving investors, entrepreneurs, and executives. But for three years, she taught a pioneering course on healthspan in the wellness department of the medical school at Stanford before launching this company, Adamo Bioscience. And her vision is to demonstrate that human connection is measurable, modifiable, and a key factor in healing. And she’s pioneering a new program, the Adamo Method, which is a pathway to resolve sexual dysfunction, strengthen relationships, and improve sexual health. She’s also worked as an advisor or consultant to more than 50 companies in the health world. And she’s on the frontier of personalized medicine and health and wellness. And we go in a lot of directions in this conversation. I certainly learned a lot. I love her voice in this topic. So let’s join Dr. Molly Maloof. Dr. Molly, welcome back.
Molly: Katie, it’s so good to see you.
Katie: So good to see you too. We had such a fun conversation the first time, and I’m so excited to learn from you further. And especially about a new project I keep seeing pop up that you are involved with that I am excited to personally learn more about and to share more about, which is Adamo. So for people who haven’t come across this yet, can you explain what it is and what was the sort of impetus for starting it?
Molly: Yeah. So Adamo means to fall in love in Latin. And I really fell in love with the problem of human connection, human disconnection in the middle of teaching at Stanford. So I was really trying to understand what is human connection? Why does love matter to longevity? You know, why are our relationships so important to our health? And why is this not part of medicine? You know, like, why is this sort of relegated as a psychological domain? Like, clearly, there’s a relationship between our relationships and our health. Because loneliness is worse for your health than smoking, drinking, sedentary behavior, and obesity. Social disconnection has clearly created a huge mental health epidemic.
And so I was studying the science of love, and I was really trying to understand how this fit within the concept of healthspan extension. So how do you live a longer, healthier life? So I was studying this framework, and I was like coming across this woman, Helen Fisher’s work. And so she basically discovered that like, love is a motivational drive and we have developed the sex drive, the romantic love drive, and the drive to attach as these three separate and yet integrated interconnected drives to extend the survival and longevity of the species and to enhance, basically to ensure reproduction. So I was like really studying this like scientific bedrock of like, okay, what is human existence? Why do we love, why do we have sex? Why do we, why do we have children? Like, why do we attach? Like, what does all this mean? And it became clear that like, there’s no way to build a company on something as big of an idea as this. It’s just too big of a, it’s just huge, right? It’s like, this is a massive part of human existence.
And so I was like, okay, well, then maybe I want to focus on sexuality because sex therapy had not been reinvented since Masters and Johnson in the sixties and Masters and Johnson were this luminary scientific research couple that was studying sexuality. And basically developed all sorts of research around it. And in the process developed what’s called sensate therapy, which is a type of mindfulness-based sensual touch that ensures that a couple that’s struggling with their sexual function slows down, gets more in tune with their bodies, takes sex off the table for like a month, and learns to connect in a sensual manner. And it’s very effective for sexual anxiety disorders. And it’s, you know, it’s, it really is a gold standard still today. But what I found was really interesting about that method was that kind of ended at the act of sex. And so the act of penetration, it was like, that’s pretty much where you end. And like, you go back into your normal sex life. And I thought to myself, well, somebody who’s dealt with sexual dysfunction and healed herself, it seemed to me that there was a lot of problems that came up during sex. So I hired an incredible couple, Aaron Michael and Saida Desilets. And they’re both what I would consider our generation’s Masters and Johnson. And I said, guys, you are the two best sex therapists I’ve found. And I want to reinvent this. Because I really think that there’s a lot of people that are really struggling with having painless, pleasurable sexual experiences.
And, what happens when you have painful, unpleasant sexual experiences over time is you start not wanting to, you know, you stop desiring sex. And I think this happens to a lot of relationships and actually is a huge problem in marital relationships, especially when people have had kids, is their sex lives will go on the decline. And, we don’t have great solutions for these problems. And it’s really time to really acknowledge that sexual health is just as important as fitness, as nutrition, as sleep, as taking the right supplements, as getting time in nature. This is a core facet of being human. And we look at it as this taboo area of life. Most people are getting their sex education through porn. And that is a very damaging model of sexual relationship.
And I think that we have an opportunity as a society to shift culture in a direction of helping people really look at sexual fulfillment and sexual health in a way that is about human flourishing. That’s what we’re here to offer. And so we developed this thing called the Adamo Method. And it’s really largely based on this concept that we think love and sexual relationships, like, for example, the way that you relate to your partner is something that you can learn to optimize. And so we have an intake system we’re offering people when they go into the program to just get a baseline assessment of sexual dysfunction, sexual satisfaction, sexual communication, what’s called emotional closeness, which is like a surrogate way of describing love, and then also attachment. So we’re measuring all these different facets of love. And then we developed a method that’s designed to literally create feelings of connection, sexual pleasure, reduce any pain in sexual experience, and then enhance human connection and attachment.
And we’re running our first study on this first cohort because I wanted to really bring a level of scientific rigor to this company from the very beginning. And even though the methods have already been tested and already, already been put into practice through the career of Aaron Michael and Saida Desilets, what we did was create a derivative product that was really both of their careers kind of like combined into a single method. And what it’s teaching people is instead of it being about just like the, don’t get me wrong. Like we actually are teaching people about sexual contact, but we’re also teaching people about psychosexual development. So how do you relate to your own self as a sexually sovereign being? As a, you know, as a person who has her own unique relationship to what her turn-ons are.
And then how do we teach people about boundaries? How do we teach people about essentially embodied consent? Like how do you actually learn to embody consent on a physiological level, not just a verbal level? And then Aaron Michael really pioneered this concept of suction sex, which is basically how do you have sex in a different way that’s just not about friction and penetration, but about real emotional closeness and physiological closeness through the act of penetration? And then how do you integrate all of this into the body so that your physiology learns to be more regulated through an experience of physical contact with your partner. So it’s really an exciting program. And we’re so, so excited that we’re almost filled. So I don’t know when this podcast is getting released, but we are going to be having a second cohort large, like soon after the first cohort. So if someone doesn’t get into the first cohort, we’re going to be doing it again. And eventually this will become an evergreen program that anybody can go through with the help of a therapist who you can text your questions to. So like the first couple cohorts are going to be led by Aaron and Saida, and we’ll have Zoom integration groups weekly. But eventually our vision for the program is that you go to a sex therapist or you go to your psychologist, they prescribe the program, and then they help you troubleshoot it through text messaging, kind of similar to what Noom has done for weight loss.
Katie: I feel like you touched on so many important things, and I love that you’re addressing all the aspects of that because you’re right. I feel like this is an area even within health and wellness that is not talked about very much and is taboo. But I hear from personal friends in private conversations about dissatisfaction with that aspect of their life or how much it’s changed after having kids and feeling kind of like helpless and like maybe they can’t even talk about it. And I know at least for me personally, I did experience kind of like in some ways a deeper connection with my body after having babies, but in some ways a disconnection from parts of my body, especially sexuality for a long time. You also touched on love and connection being so important for longevity. And we hear on the news that we’re in this sort of loneliness epidemic. And so I feel like this is especially important with those people who are most important in our lives. And so I love that you’re wrapping that all into one. Is there any kind of like, can you touch on the science behind why loneliness is so problematic? And I know you touched on smoking and sedentary lifestyle, but I want to highlight how important this is.
Molly: Yes. I mean, it was like an absolute revelation in my career when I discovered how incredibly important it is that we are connected to other people. Because I was teaching at Stanford in the middle of a pandemic, in the middle of wildfire season in San Francisco. My students were struggling. They were isolated. They were alone. They were in their dorms, or they were in their family’s homes. They were not leaving the house. And their nervous systems were highly dysregulated. And my nervous system was dysregulated. I mean, I was isolated teaching online in one of my family’s houses in Florida because it was empty. And I was like, oh, this will be convenient. I can go and teach.
I had no idea how social isolation was so damaging to my health. And so I started studying it. And when I was researching animal studies, I was like, oh my God, we literally, if you want to isolate, if you literally want to induce mental illness in an animal, you just isolate it and give it like stress, and it will literally develop animal models of depression and anxiety and PTSD. And I was like, holy crap, we’re doing this at scale on humans without even recognizing that like we already, we kind of knew this was going to happen because if you just take animal studies, you can understand what it takes to induce a mental illness in a human.
So, I was researching some of this MIT scientists work, and they actually discovered the part of the brain that senses loneliness. And they discovred that it was just like a primitive pain signal. It was kind of like hunger or thirst. It like hurts to be lonely on a purpose because it’s designed to get you to move and to get closer to people in your tribe. Problem is a lot of people don’t have tribes anymore. And so we’ve, we’ve developed a very culture of independent, you know, human existence in America, even for feminine, for feminism, like women have been taught that like, you need to be independent. You need to be, you know, self-sufficient. That’s really not the way humans evolved. Humans evolved to be social creatures. And if you were on the outskirts of a community in a forest, let’s say you were in like a primitive tribe that lived outdoors and lived in the savannah. If you were on the outskirts of that tribe, you could be attacked by a neighboring tribe, you could be attacked by a wild animal, you could get lost. That you needed to develop a pain signal of isolation so that you would get closer.
So when you look at people that are in loving relationships and photos of loving families and loving children and loving relationships, you see proximity. And you see closeness of literal physical contact, right? And so proximity and touch and closeness are like actually important because they regulate nervous system. So when you are close to another person and you touch another person, or let’s say you’re intimate with your partner, you are getting oxytocin released. Oxytocin is basically the neuropeptide that one of my advisors, Sue Carter, who is a professor emeritus at Kinsey, she spent 50 years studying human mammal connection and discovered that oxytocin was responsible for pair bonding in prairie voles. So oxytocin neurobiology is really important for the cohesiveness of a unit or a tribe. Or family or community, right?
And so oxytocin is this bonding medicine. It’s like actually what creates these attachment bonds. It’s also released during orgasm. So you can imagine that if you orgasm with a partner consistently, you’re going to create a bond with that person. And that bond is designed to help you ensure the survival of that family so that you keep those children alive. And, you know, children are pretty helpless for the first few years of their life, right? Like they really do need parental supervision. Otherwise they will die. Like they may, they may starve. They may hurt themselves. Like kids are pretty dependent on humans to survive. So we need this hormone oxytocin to create these social bonds. And so women in particular are highly oxytocin dominant. Men, on the other hand, are vasopressin dominant. Vasopressin and oxytocin are very similar amino acid peptides. The difference of vasopressin being it’s designed for protection, defense, and aggression. So it’s what makes men really good at protecting the safety of a tribe.
So, what’s really fascinating is like, we have culturally developed a sexual culture that is fairly aggressive. And if you look at what most pornography is demonstrating, it’s a very masculine, aggressive model of sexual communication and contact. And we are trying to induce a paradigm shift in culture because we believe that if you change the way people behave somatically, it can change the way they behave culturally. And so one of the things that we want to introduce to people is that if you are engaging in sexual connection with your partner, you can be an active receiver in your experience. And you don’t have to sit back and just be penetrated by a partner. You can be actively bringing in your partner with your body. So suction is not just about the relationship between you and your partner during penetration, but it’s actually about bringing your partner into you through pelvic floor breathing and through learning how to move your hips, so that you are actually in conscious control of the act of bringing a partner into you, which gives you a lot of empowerment as a, as a receiver.
Whether you’re gay or straight, whether you’re trans or cis, whether you are male or female, gendered or bodied, we designed this method to help everybody. We didn’t design it to be for heteronormative couples. We designed it to be with anybody who engages in this act. And obviously a lot of people are asking like, well, what about foreplay? And like, we’re not saying foreplay is not important. That is fundamentally important to having a great sex life. But what we discovered is that there’s a lot of problems that come up for women in particular and men, especially even gay men, in the act of receiving a partner into their body. And there’s a lot of women that after pregnancy have pain, have actual vaginismus or dyspareunia, which are medical terms for spasms of the pelvic floor, pain with pelvic penetration. Vulvodynia can be hypersensitivity to any touch.
And there’s a lot of trauma that is not talked about. Whether it’s trauma from pregnancy, whether it’s trauma from sexual trauma, whether it’s childhood sexual trauma, whether it’s military sexual trauma, like this is a big problem in society. And we believe that our method is really designed to address the pain that comes from you know, being human and having some negative experiences, but we don’t focus on victimhood in our culture of our company. We focus on transforming pain into bliss. We try, we focus on transformation. It’s one of our core values of our company. And we want to help people develop the best possible experiences of their lives through learning how to have new ways of connecting with their partners.
And it’s changed my life completely. Like, that’s why I’m so passionate about talking about it. Because it’s given me… I thought I had a great sex life. I thought I really knew what I was doing sexually. And I didn’t realize I was still experiencing sexual pain pretty consistently in my experiences with my partners. I’m now in a committed relationship with a partner. And it’s really amazing to be able to not have that problem continuously come up. And I think a lot of women don’t realize how important it is for their bodies to be fully aroused. And they don’t realize that that’s actually something that they can do with themselves. And it’s not necessarily your partner’s job to arouse you. You can actually develop your ability to arouse yourself, which is a pretty unique concept. And Aaron and Saida teach methods of directing your energy and blood flow to your genitals through breathwork methods, through mind-genital connection meditations, in order to teach you that you have way more agency and autonomy over your body than you’ve been taught.
Katie: And I can imagine even that shift is so healing for so many people like me who have had an instance in our past where that was taken away in a very brutal way. And I know I found so much help in somatic healing, like actually using the body to help heal those emotional experiences. I also know many women, especially in long-term relationships, seem to hit a point of sort of sexual dissatisfaction and they don’t really talk about it. I’m assuming there’s probably a lot of misconceptions around this area of understanding, but it also seems like for many women, especially not as much for men, maybe, but for women that that can get put on a back burner pretty easily. Or when life is busy, when things are hard, whatever the sexual connection aspect can easily get put on a back burner or not made a priority. And so it sounds like through this, you guys are helping create a space to like re-nurture that because I’ve also heard you talk about before, like, connecting to our own sexual energy has ripple effects into our whole life. And sexual energy is creative energy. So it doesn’t, that doesn’t mean it only expressed in sexual connection that also expresses in every connection and how we interact with the world.
Molly: I mean, I really look at women in society and we’ve been kind of taught that we’re supposed to be like men now. And we’ve kind of forgotten the magic of being feminine. Like we have forgotten the magic of our capacity sexually. I mean, like, most people that I speak to that are sex educators, we’ll greatly admit that like women have enormous sexual capacity. It’s like, we’ve just, we’re designed for reproduction, right? Like this is not our only job. But it is one very powerful facet of being human as a woman. I don’t look at sexuality as this like taboo problem that’s like, oh, I have to hide and be like, this is a dirty part of being a woman. It’s like, oh my God, this is a beautiful part of being a woman. And we need to embrace it. You know, we need to like celebrate it, and we need to let it infuse our existence because it’s literally life force. You know, it’s a beautiful source of like, it’s a wellspring of incredible life force energy.
And like Saida Desilets is, I think, I mean, I probably shouldn’t reveal her age, but let’s just say she’s like a decade, about a decade older than me, but she’s got such incredible vitality coursing through her body. And I think it’s one of the best anti-aging tools in the world is like tapping into your own erotic energy and genius. And I think the more we can do that, the more fulfilled we’re going to feel, the more empowered we’re going to feel. And like, I know that when I’m in my masculine, I feel less empowered than when I’m actually operating from a feminine place. So, there’s part of this program is about your relationship to your sexuality as an individual person. That’s the first two weeks of the actual method. The first week is just introductions and orientation. The second two weeks is really about your psychosexual development with you. And then we get into the psychosomatic piece of you and your partner.
For a lot of women, it’s hard to communicate to your partner that you’re not satisfied. And this is a big issue because if you consistently engage in unsatisfying experiences, you’re not going to desire it. And so when you don’t desire it, you’re going to have an aversion to it. And when you develop enough aversion, your brain will literally change its relationship to sex. So we don’t want women to suffer, and we don’t want men to suffer. This is this like lack of satisfaction. So that’s why we believe that it’s important to not just bring up the topic and learn how to communicate about it, which is one thing the program does, but also create space for playtime, right?
So we have got a physician couple in our program that’s joining in. I’m so excited because this is one of the first programs designed for couples. So you’re going to be going through daily practices with your partner that’s designed to bring you closer to them. And I guarantee there’s almost like one of the things we have to tell people is like the disclaimer of this program is you really we don’t want people in the program who are about to break up or contemplate divorce because this is designed to actually deepen bond and connection. So if you’re on your way out, and this program is designed to increase feelings of love and connection, like, this is a side effect. Like we know that this is going to create a deeper bond. So if you don’t want to be with someone, don’t sign up for our program. Like this is for people who are committed and want to stay committed. We do know there’s a bunch of people who are going to take it because they want to save their marriages and save their relationships. And I’m not opposed to that. But make sure you want to save it. Make sure that it’s definitely something you want to be in. Because we want people to know that this program was designed to enhance feelings of love and connection and sexual satisfaction. It’s not just a program around sexuality. It’s a program around emotional attunement to your partner. And sexual communication with your partner. So it really is a very comprehensive program. And we want people who are very much committed to doing the practices because it’s about a two-hour commitment a week, which is not insignificant. And we’d prefer people did more practices than that.
Katie: Well, and as a follow-up, I feel like two areas, do you touch on the low libido side, which it sounds like may be tied into if your brain’s rewired that relationship with sexual connection to begin with, it seems like that can be a problem in long-term relationships. And also you mentioned the difference between being in the masculine and being in the feminine. And I know I also struggle with that for a long time, especially until I heal, especially as an entrepreneur. And I think many women do, or just in the busyness of running a household and working and everything that we carry. So any tips on those two points for people with a lower libido and or how do we get into our feminine?
Molly: So when I was studying desire and arousal, I was like really getting into fMRI research. And it’s pretty clear in the research that, a person can be physiologically aroused and not desire sex like in their brain. Like when your brain has decided that it doesn’t want something, it can override your physiology. And that’s really interesting, right? So what, one of the things that we’re trying to teach people is how to create a mind-genital connection. This is a really important thing that if you don’t develop this relationship, your brain can turn off your libido. Like you can literally shut it down by just deciding that this is not what you want. But you can retrain it. Like you can actually retrain your brain. Have you ever done bodybuilding?
Katie: I actually did for about a year.
Molly: Okay, so you know what it’s like to create a neuromuscular connection. So when you’re trying to lift weights and you’re trying to build a muscle, it’s not about just taking the weight and like lifting it back and forth. You actually have to think about, I need to, I need to actually create hypertrophy in this muscle. So I’m literally trying to create that neuromuscular connection. The beauty of weight training is that if you develop that relationship between your neuromuscular connection, you realize that it’s not just lifting the weight, but it’s also bringing the weight down that builds that muscle connection. We’ve been taught as a culture that you need to create a very tight, kegeled vagina. And it’s all about tightening, tightening, tightening, right? But what Aaron and Saida have taught me is that it’s also about the push of the pelvic floor. It’s not just about pulling it up. It’s also about pushing it out. So you’re really developing this neuromuscular connection with your pelvic floor to explore what it means to actually have conscious connection to the movement of your pelvic floor, right? We don’t even learn about pelvic floor anatomy. So we’re actually teaching people an anatomical lesson so that they understand like, this is how you can create a brain and genital arousal system. I mean, this is like, to me, it was like pretty, pretty surprising because like, I didn’t realize that the anatomy of a female genitalia was not actually properly mapped and put into textbooks until 2005. And even now there’s still a lot of misinformation about what our sexual anatomy looks like and how it functions.
So we’ve brought in these two experts in order to actually create a new paradigm of understanding around pleasure and to demystify it because it’s been kind of relegated to like the tantra world or the Taoist world or the very hardcore mainstream pathophysiology world. But what about that space in between that’s like, what is the anatomy of pleasure? How does our brain and body function together? How do we create nervous system attunement? I kind of got distracted from your questions, but basically, you know, that’s part of the piece.
And then, and then so part of this is also that getting out of practice with intimacy, right? So when you have a lot of responsibilities in the household, what can happen to women is they can become more masculinized through the act of like trying to protect and provide for children. So if you think about a mama bear, like she’s trying to keep these kids alive and feed them and make sure that they’re safe. That does have a certain, it’s obviously a feminine element, but there is a certain masculine element to like protection, right? So that can flip a woman into a state where she’s just not prioritizing her femininity, like her actual sexuality, because she’s so focused on her energy on how do I keep these kids alive? And so it’s really a question of prioritization and energy resource management, which is tough to explain to like exhausted moms and dads. Like, hey, you got to, if you want your relationship to last, you actually have to prioritize intimate connection. So, that’s part of the benefit of doing a concerted eight-week program with a company like Adamo is you’re deciding to commit time and your time resources to actually creating a connection with your partner.
So let’s get into the masculine and feminine. So we each have masculinity and femininity within us. We can flip between Shiva and Shakti, right, in a sexual experience, you can be a adaptive giver as a woman. Like you can be on top of your partner. You can be giving pleasure to your partner and in a more actively giving role. You can also be a active receiver. You can be in the receiving role, but you can be active in it. So like one of the things that you learn is what does it feel like to be an adaptive giver or an active receiver? What does that feel like? And so I didn’t fully understand that there was times in my sexual experiences with partners where I was being a not particularly adaptive giver. I wasn’t particularly conscious of the amount of discomfort I was creating for me and my partner by too much aggressive movement. And that was creating pain. That was creating soreness. So you learn to slow down and you learn to really attune to what your partner is experiencing. And you learn, they learn to attune to what you’re experiencing. And in that attunement, you create much more emotional resonance between you and your partner and also more pleasure because you’re learning to listen to them and say, “Oh, that doesn’t feel good or that does feel good.”
So Aaron and Saida have gone out of their way to really demonstrate this because they’re the ones we’ve taped to actually teach the method. So you will literally see all sorts of lessons about managing weight for movement, literally making sure that you are not overpowering your partner when you’re on top of them, or they’re not overpowering you. And it’s, I mean, we can learn more about the actual method on our website because we’ve outlined every week. But I don’t want to give it all away on the podcast. I want people to actually sign up for it. But it is essentially a program around psychosexual development and also learning suction versus friction sex. So friction-based sex is what you typically see in porn. And it’s very penetrative. It’s very forceful. And it can be painful. We are shifting that to a format of sexual contact that really ensures more, there’s more physical connection during the act of sex. There’s less of an in and out movement and more of a, connected movement between two bodies. And so it’s a lot more hip movement based, less thrusting of the legs. So there’s going to be a lot less energy required to create more pleasure, which is pretty cool.
Katie: Well, and I’ll, of course, make sure it’s linked in the show notes, but can you tell us where people can find Adamo? And I’ll also make sure to link to your Instagram because I really enjoy following you on there. You’re always posting all kinds of great advice in all areas of life.
Molly: Yeah. So you can go to my Instagram @drmolly.co, D-R-M-O-L-L-Y.co. And that’s also my website. And then livingadamo.com or @livingadamo on Instagram. And we are putting out tons of great, you know, evidence-based content around sexuality on that. And I repost everything.
Katie: Awesome. Well, it’s always such a joy to talk to you. This definitely has been, I’ve learned a lot in this conversation. I look forward to actually checking it out myself. Thank you so much for being here and for the time and for all the work that you do. You seem to have endless energy and desire to share with the world. So thank you for being here.
Molly: Thanks.
Katie: And thanks for listening. I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the Wellness Mama podcast.
If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.
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