857: Cycle Syncing with the Seasons and the Magnificent Menstrual Cycle With Susan Fox

Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.

Katie: Hello, and welcome to the Wellness Mama podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com, and I’m back today with Dr. Susan Fox to talk about cycle syncing with the seasons and the magnificent menstrual cycle. And Dr. Susan Fox is an expert in reproductive health and fertility with decades of experience combining modern medicine and traditional medicine to create amazing outcomes for her clients. And we talk about the five element Chinese model of this as well as seasons within our planetary seasons and how these can integrate in this episode. She also works a lot with couples on improving fertility and optimizing prep for IVF or for natural conception and all of the factors that go into that. So let’s jump in with Dr. Susan Fox. Susan, welcome back. Thanks for being here again.

Susan: Thanks so much for having me. I’m loving this conversation.

Katie: Me too. And if you listeners haven’t heard our first conversation, we got to go into some fascinating things around the five-element model in Chinese medicine and specifically how this can relate to our cycle as women and to fertility and along with some statistics about fertility and what we’re seeing across the board there. So I will link to that conversation in the show notes.

In this one, I would love to shift gears a little bit and give some air time to the magnificent menstrual cycle to begin with, which I feel like in the West, especially we potentially don’t have enough understanding and respect for how incredible it is to begin with, but also from researching for this episode and learning your work about cycle syncing with the seasons, which I haven’t personally heard anybody else talk about. So I know this is a broad topic, but can you introduce us to the concept of what it even means to cycle sync with the seasons?

Susan: Yes, I can. So, you know, it’s interesting, right? We have four weeks typically of our menstrual cycle and we have four seasons typically. And because, again, we are one with nature, our bodies, our whole health, and I often say our whole health is our reproductive health and our reproductive health requires our whole health. So the cycle syncing is just a prism, a way of looking at the seasons and what might be happening in our whole body and how that might affect our cycles, our menstrual cycles.

If I may, I’d like to just begin by describing the menstrual cycle, because ironically, I’ve had some of the most intelligent, educated people come across my desk saying, I don’t even know what’s happening in my menstrual cycle. And I think it’s an important, just, you know, brief overview. So, and I say this because often if a person is trying to conceive, that first drop of menstrual blood can be devastating because she wanted to conceive this month. But what I really want to impress is that with our magnificent menstrual cycles, by cycle day two of that bleed, two, we’re already beginning the next generation of follicles for the next possibility. And that’s where I think our privilege as people who can get pregnant and bring new people into the world is so remarkable because our bodies are so brilliant.

So, but so we’re, we’re having our menstrual bleed. We’re letting go. We’re shedding the uterine lining, our menstruation because conception didn’t occur. And yet again, those signals, the very fact that we did not conceive this month is already telling our body by cycle day two or three, let’s try again. Let’s get ready again. And while we have a, you know, a certain amount of eggs in reserve, and there is this concept called diminished ovarian reserve over time, the conversation that I like to have with people is about improving our whole health so that we can improve our reproductive health so that the quality, and we can’t guarantee quality, this is a science, you know, double blind placebo controlled science conversation. We can’t say we can improve egg quality, but it bears to reason that if we are healthier, our whole body will be healthier all the way down to the nutrients that are going into the mitochondria of our follicles.

And so from that cycle day two through typically, if we use a standard cycle, cycle day 13 or 14, those follicles are growing based upon our pituitaries signaling to our ovaries saying stimulate, stimulate, stimulate follicles and one will grow to ovulation. And just before ovulation, our pituitary says, okay, you’re big enough. Let’s ovulate and it will release some luteinizing hormone that says, okay, luteinize, let’s let that follicle release its egg and let that follicle transform into what’s called the corpus luteum, thus luteinizing. That corpus luteum again in this brilliant symphony says, okay, if a sperm is going to meet this egg, then we need to hold that uterine lining intact and secrete nutrients in the endometrium, in the uterus so that that we can draw in that that that embryo so it has a chance to begin burrowing in. And that is the progesterone that is secreted by our luteinizing hormone. If conception didn’t occur, there’s no sign of the human growth hormone, chorionic growth hormone, hCG, then the body says, gets that feedback and says, not this time. Let’s release this lining, menstruation, and start again.

So I say this because, here again, surprising and not surprising. I don’t know about you, but back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was learning about my body, it was more about contraception. And menstruation was an embarrassment. If heaven forbid, if there was any sign that you might be menstruating, it was a cause for humiliation. And I really want listeners to say, let’s change that dialogue because it has been happening since the beginning of time. It is a natural phenomenon. And while if you’re trying to conceive, it might not be what you want, it is also a very healthful, healthy part of our physiology.

Now I’ll go into the seasons if you wish. Okay, so let’s begin with winter, right? So winter is cold. It is dark. Our bodies tend to kind of condense a little bit, kind of tighten up and go inward. And our blood can get a little bit more congealed. Mind you, I’m speaking Chinese medicine speak. So I don’t want anybody to Google this and say, well, that doesn’t make sense because it’s Chinese medicine observation and perception that would say when we are cold, our blood can be more congealed.

So we want to take the time to nourish that blood, deeply nourish that blood and provide enough sleep. There’s a reason why in the wintertime we have shorter days. We need more sleep. We don’t have the light, the fuel from the sun that lets us get sort of more energetic throughout the day. So use the light hours, wake at light, sleep at dusk, at dark rather so that you can really help your circadian flow, which is also part of your hormonal cascade, be in better alignment.

Then we, by about, I’m going to say even as early as late February, early March, depending upon where you are in the world, we’re beginning our spring expression. Those little shoots that are coming up from the ground, they’re also coming up within us. And our blood tends to quicken is the term we use. So this is that liver time I had mentioned before in the prior episode where we really want to help nurture that movement. We want to sort of get up, get out, begin moving again. And really allow for this qi circulation. That’s what we call movement. So that we’re not bogged down by PMS kind of symptoms. Breast tenderness, mood lability, cramping. Circulation movement will help reduce that, will help minimize that and in some cases will help mitigate that completely.

Then we roll into summer and summer is where we can run the risk of becoming too out, too external you know we’ve got longer days of sunlight, we’ve got more warmth, and we can overheat our bodies so this is a time when we really want to be mindful of hydration. I mean, these things, of course, are translated into people going, well, of course, but in the Chinese medicine perspective, we’re explaining the why, because we are more likely to become dehydrated. And we think that because we’re taking in fluids, we’re hydrating, but not necessarily the case. And we want to cool down. So we use more of the cooling foods, not cold in temperature, but cooling foods like peppermints, like berries, the things that come out in the season. So, or lighter kind of spring, what am I trying to say? Sprouted, sprouted vegetables. So broccoli sprouts and that kind of thing as part of your diet, where you’re going to get lots of good protein, but easier to digest because you’re not weighted down the way you are in the winter, where you’re probably going to have more soups and stews and things like that.

Then we roll into, in Chinese medicine, we have this little bit of time that we call long summer, kind of the August, September timeframe, where it may not be the height of summer, the height of fire, but the time between the height of summer and fall, we’re in this sort of time of kind of re, we’re harvesting, right? So we really want to make, in the earth we’re harvesting, and we kind of want to do that for ourselves. We want to begin resourcing ourselves in anticipation for fall so that we are not kind of rushing to catch up with our nutrients by the time we need to kind of repurpose, resettle our energies as we get prepared for fall and winter.

In the fall, this is the time where the air is a little drier, it’s getting a little cooler. So this is where we want to begin with things, lighter, lighter foods, like maybe bone broth soups and things like that, where we can begin that sort of deeper nourishing of our bodies. And we still want to be doing our movement, but we’re not necessarily going to be pushing ourselves because we’re starting to really regroup. So we take gentler walks in nature. We maybe tone down our outside activities.

And for most of us in the modern world, this is the time where we really need to begin paying attention to, it is getting darker sooner. We don’t want to necessarily be trying to stay up and do the things at eight or nine o’clock at night that we got away with in the height of summer. We need to start dimming our light switches as we see, oh yes, it’s maybe five o’clock or six o’clock. It’s getting to be a little darker because we really want to help retrain our pineal gland that helps us with sleep, that is more importantly, or as importantly, a super antioxidant that helps us with our detoxification during our sleep time. So that we can then roll into winter and once again, begin this sort of deeper, more internal, more nourishing, more settling down kind of lifestyle. Does that make sense?

Katie: It does. And it lines up with what we talked about in the first episode of so much of this actually is just getting back to alignment with nature and the nuance of how to do that in the specific seasons and based on the specific nuance of our bodies and especially for women of our cycles. So it makes sense as you were saying all that, especially the light cues.

I feel like that is so often overlooked in today’s world because we are so exposed to artificial light all the time. But I’ve personally seen how profoundly impactful it can be, even just small changes in trying to get more in alignment with the natural light rhythms, whether it’s getting morning sunlight and watching the sunset, getting that little bit of bright midday exposure without sunglasses and without covering up all the way. I feel like our bodies are so responsive to light. And of course, food is an input as well and sleep is an input. But I feel like light seems to trigger a lot of those master responses that make sleep easier, that make hunger feel more aligned. It just seems like it’s connected to everything and perhaps more recognized in a Chinese model than we acknowledge in the Western world.

Susan: Well, again, I think that we’ve become enamored in our modern, you know, Western science to be reductionist and say, you know, what can we do for this issue or that issue whereas the Chinese medicine model, being ancient, really relied on observation. And, you know, all you needed to do is observe what happens to someone who is not in alignment with nature, with the sleep-wake cycles of light-dark. That person, you would read, would go mad sometimes. They’d be very sort of dramatic about their portrayal. But it really is a bit of a madness.

We can actually see it in our small children, for that matter. You know, if our children, these little ones, are our masters, they’re master teachers. If we just observe them, they’ll tell us exactly what happens when, you know, we stay up too late or waking up too late. We’re missing those cues of light source being a fuel for our body just as much as food and drink is a fuel for our body.

So, yes, I couldn’t agree more that, you know, getting back to these signals, it seems simple. And it is simple. Sometimes it’s not easy to break the modern lifestyle pattern, but it is simple. And I would say whatever one thing you can do, if you can, make sure that you’re, you know, waking up with the light, getting outdoors, looking at the light, you know, blinking a bit. Really taking in that light source in the morning, that will dictate your sleep patterns. And if you get to bed at night, that will dictate your ability to get up. It’s at the, you know, kind of first signs of light. And we feel better. We just intuitively and naturally feel better.

Katie: Yes, it seems like when it comes to time in nature, sort of the more the better without upper limit because we as humans were meant to exist in nature. But to the degree that we also live in the modern world and live in houses, anytime we can get the natural light whenever possible. But also I feel like if we can take that same idea and make our home environment as friendly to that, to those light cues as possible.

So a tip I’ve said before is I have normal daylight bright bulbs in the ceiling lights in my house. And then in every room I have lamps that are low down. And it’s actually an important thing with the angle of eye level or below. And I have amber or red bulbs in those. And so at sunset, the timer switches and everything goes to that red light, lower light at eye level or below, which would mimic the sunset or a campfire or what we would have been exposed to in nature.

Susan: Campfire, yes, because that’s what we would see, yeah.

Katie: And so for moms, especially, I say like, if you haven’t tried this, it’s kind of profoundly shocking how much of a difference that can make even in kids getting tired at the right time. And in you wanting to go to sleep at the right time. And that’s when, once you set that up, it’s an easy, seamless integration into your life. And it can make a big difference in sleep. So I love to share that tip whenever it’s aligned.

I also know in the modern world, many of us, like you said, you came from a generation when contraception was more the conversation. And I’m excited to see seemingly so many women now tracking their cycles and choosing to know their cycle more intimately and make choices based on that. Instead of just sort of, like systematizing their cycle with hormones. And I know a lot of women listening may be tracking their cycle. And I have been as well for 20 years now, almost.

Is there anything from having that knowledge of our cycle that we can see in the patterns of our cycle that might give us insight into areas that we could support ourselves more? So for instance, I know I’ve seen times of stress changed my cycle. And that was kind of a wake-up call for me of like, oh, this is now affecting even my hormones. Or of course, the postpartum years cycle went away. And changes in it when it came back. But are there things we can see from whether it’s short cycles, short bleeding, long cycles, heavy bleeding, from tracking our cycle that can give us insight into what can be helpful?

Susan: Yeah, absolutely. That’s a really great question. I would say that in terms of tracking our cycles, you know, ideally we want to have as close to that 28-day cycle with a 14-day ovulation pattern. If we have a later ovulation, by a couple of days is fine. You know, we’re not all, you know, cookie cutter, but if it really trends toward being later, then there is something to look at, in terms of what is causing that delay. And especially if there’s a later ovulation, but a shorter luteal phase, so you’re having a 28-day cycle, but you’re not ovulating until cycle day 18, that’s something to look at as well, because that would tell you that there’s the luteinizing hormone, pardon me, the progesterone from the corpus luteum is not secreting enough progesterone. So it kind of begs the question why, and we want to look back in the cycle as to say, well, why might that corpus luteum not be secreting enough progesterone and why might that ovulation be delayed.

Similarly for a shortened cycle, if you’re noting that you’re ovulating on cycle day nine, that’s relatively too soon to cycle. That egg is less likely to have had enough time to mature properly to ovulation. And once again, caveat being we are all unique. So there are people for whom ovulation on cycle day nine or 10 can still bring a healthy pregnancy, but it is not typical.

So if you’re ovulating early or if you’re ovulating less, if you’re ovulating late, pardon me, I said ovulating less, if you’re ovulating late, but your cycle is still the 28 days, if your cycles are many months between menstrual bleed, all of these are things that we can look at. And it would be, I think, not appropriate for me to try to explain all of these things in this conversation, because I could probably lead people to be more confused than helped.

But just in general, if your cycles are not tracking normally for you, then it’s worth taking a look and then asking for some help. Once again, I’m going to be biased and say, please don’t have it be Dr. Google help, because you could send yourself down a rabbit hole, start taking supplements you don’t need or supplements that aren’t appropriate. Because everybody’s got an opinion as to what to do when and if they’re not, if they’re not, you know, expert, then they could be leading you astray. Could have been right for them, but it may be absolutely wrong for you.

Katie: Oh, there’s wisdom in that for sure. I think I’ve learned that over the last 15 years of being in the health and wellness world in general. And I often say this now of like, I believe every expert out there, there’s, I think, approach everything with curiosity. There’s always something to learn from every single person we meet, but also including myself in this very strongly, everything we figure out is what works for us. And that’s awesome. And it can be helpful to someone else figuring out their framework. But I’m also very cautious of ever sharing, for instance, this is exactly the supplement list I take, or this is my exact routine, because that’s what worked for me through a lot of experimentation. And someone else could take that literal exact same blueprint and apply it and have different results.

And so I try to encourage the framework and the foundation and the figuring out the variables versus giving someone the variables. And it sounds like that’s your approach as well, is to help people with this nuance. And I feel like the Chinese model is new insight into that and into that nuance. I know in the first episode, we got deep into what the five different elements are. And I’m sure this could be a very long topic in and of itself. But are there any specifics that come to mind for those different types and how they might interact differently or special things to be aware of within the different seasons or special things to pay attention to as the seasons change?

Susan: Yes, I touched upon it briefly, but really being in alignment with the seasons, recognizing where we are in the season, in the winter, we’re not in the summer. And so we want to be living life accordingly. I would say it’s not, winter is not, you know, we’re not bears, it’s not a time for hibernation. So we do want to have all of our, you know, sort of physical, physiological, nutrition, social engagement, but it is not the same as when we’re in the spring or in the height of summer.

Actually, I think I could probably say this really succinctly, look outside. You know, what is happening in the trees in your neighborhood? You know, are they growing their flowers, their buds? Then that is a time that you can really presume that you can also begin to express new ideas, new creativity, new ways of, you know, learning, growing. Or are they dropping their leaves or those flowers, you know, kind of rolling in for the winter? That would be a time to settle down.

I know that seems so simple and almost embarrassing to use that description. But I think that’s the very key message that I want to convey is that we each have our own agency. We each have our own wisdom. We each have our own ability to say, you know, all of this information, all of this data is great. I’ll take it in what works for me. And then I’m just going to really assimilate within myself, in my body, in my mind, in my spirit, in my community, my trusted, you know, advisors or loved ones. And then take what works for me and get rid and just leave what doesn’t.

Because I think sometimes, we chase that, again, that our love for the frontal cortex, we chase that latest science, you know, research and data. And that’s all well and good. I’m so glad we have that data to demonstrate the efficacy of something. But it is not, it is not the be all end all proof positive that this is what you should do. So I think that’s probably the best way I can say it.

Katie: I love that. I think, you know, often the N of one study is dismissed in the scientific community. And I like to reframe that in that if the N of one, if you are the one, that is the most valuable experimentation and research you will ever do. And it doesn’t actually matter what the statistics are if you are doing the study on yourself. And that can go, of course, in both directions, positive and negative. And like I, for instance, had placenta previa with one of my babies, which is a one in 10,000 chance. But that statistic didn’t matter because I was that one. But also that same thing is true in figuring out the things that are supportive. And so I love that you brought that into play.

And I know from our first episode, you have a whole lot of other resources available for people to keep learning on all these things we talked about, as well as a quiz to help people figure out which element they are and how to support themselves optimally. But can you recap where people can find that and where they can keep learning from you?

Susan: Certainly, but may I first just cheerlead your N of one. I say this so many times in the treatment room: try this for yourself. If someone is autoimmune, try removing gluten. Try removing soy if they’re Hashimoto’s and see how you feel. Do symptoms go away? Because just by my telling you this may not let your whole body, your physical, physiological, and emotional self engage with the changes. But when you try it for yourself and you experience this for yourself, it is your proof positive that this is the right thing for you or not.

So anyway, back to where people can find me. I’ve got a fertility quiz that does present the five-element model in its result. It’s called yourfertilityquiz.com. My website is healthyouniversity.co, not .com. And university is spelled Y-O-U-niversity because it’s the university of you. And then for people who are in my zip code, my private practice is drsusanfox.com. I’ll provide all of those links.

Katie: Wonderful. And I will make sure they are all in the show notes for any of you guys listening on the go. That’s always at wellnessmama.com, along with a recap of a lot of the talking points we talked about and links to find more information on all of those. But Susan, this was such a fun conversation. I love that you bring a melding of perspectives and so much wisdom and knowledge to this topic. And I’m so grateful for your time.

Susan: Oh, thank you. It’s been my delight. I could talk about this topic all day long. I am personally indebted to and enamored with Chinese medicine as an integrative medicine. It is not one or the other. It’s this/and.

Katie: I love that. Yes, both/and is a win-win. And I’m grateful we got to delve into it today. Thank you so much for the time.

Susan: Thank you very much, Katie.

Katie: And thank you, as always, for listening and sharing your most valuable resources, your time, your energy, and your attention with us today. We’re both so grateful that you did. And I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the Wellness Mama podcast.

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.