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Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.
Katie: Hello and welcome to the Wellness Mama Podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com. And I am back today with Emma Willis and Helen Christoni to tackle the topic of beating brain fog and mom brain and why this is actually potentially much more important than we think. And Emma and Helen are the co-founders of a company called Make Time Wellness that has some practical products that can be especially helpful for women, but also an educational component that really speaks to why it is so important for all of us and especially women to address and be aware of brain health and how something as simple as brain fog might be a really helpful symptom to understand in relation to our brain health and something that speaks to taking a preventative approach to other problems down the road. And they explain the physiology of what’s going on when we have brain fog or mom brain, how hormones can come into play, and what they call the five pillars of brain health, many of which are completely free or very inexpensive, and that we can all shift slightly at home to make dramatic changes in our brain health. So let’s join Emma and Helen. Helen and Emma, welcome back. Thanks for being here again.
Helen: Hi, Katie.
Emma: Hi, Katie. Thanks for having us.
Katie: If you guys listening missed our first episode, we got to really dissect why brain health is so important for women and why it’s not talked about nearly enough. And in this episode, I’m excited to go even deeper and get really practical, especially on the topic of brain fog and mom brain, because certainly I’ve experienced this with kids. I hear from many listeners and readers who have brain fog, and I feel like many of us are just told that’s a normal part of being a mom.
And it sounds like you guys have really done a deep dive to understand brain health on such a level and to give practical solutions so that perhaps that doesn’t have to be the story that we just have brain fog and mom brain if we’re moms. I know we established, like I said, a lot of the foundation for this conversation in our first episode, which I will link to in the show notes. But can you, to start broad, sort of walk us through what’s actually physiologically happening when we feel like we have brain fog or mom brain and what kind of symptoms show up when we’re in that state?
Emma: Yeah, I mean, I know for me it was, you know, just, again, walking into a room, not knowing why I was there, not being sharp. You know, having to write everything down on my to do list, and just really not understanding what was happening. But, you know, as I started to learn more about it, you know, realizing that, you know, my hormones were playing a part. You know, you do hear about mommy brain. And that really sometimes does happen with your hormones changing after you’ve had a baby. And that for me, that sort of really when it all sort of sunk into this fog that I was in was after, you know, our second daughter, Evelyn.
And it was, really scary because I’ve always been quite high functioning and can remember things. And I didn’t have to always write everything down and just to see like such a total shift. And, you know, speaking to a doctor that worked in brain, like that was his specialty, and just learning about what to do, how to improve the fog that I was in and sort of helped lift it was, you know, game changing. And again, it’s like, it’s really about, for us as a brand, how can we speak to people without overwhelming them, right? For me, when it gets too science-y or, you know, some of this stuff just goes right over my head. So I really need things to be explained to me like I’m five.
Helen: Yeah, and I think also, you know, nowadays, like, we don’t necessarily have the village to come in and help when we have babies. You know, and so many women are doing this alone or their spouses at work or their parents live in other places and, and they just don’t have the support that they need. And so I think like, when you compare it to times past, like, you know, like when I was born. And, you know, my mom had all the family in Greece and the aunts and the uncles and the cousins and everybody was there helping with a new baby.
And culturally, that’s really shifted. And so women take on so much of the burden of, you know, they have, they have the baby, they don’t get their bodies or they don’t have the time to allow themselves to recover. I mean, they get like, what I think like, four weeks off work and they’re expected to just go back into work and have the baby and function like a normal person at work with a new baby. And nobody is giving themselves the time to actually recover. It has a tremendous impact on our brain health. Because there’s no moment, you know. So I mean, and I know like in my own culture, you don’t do anything for nine months. I mean, you take as long as it takes to make the baby to recover. And that’s just missing from our society today. It hence all the problems with mom, brain, brain fog, and not being able to rebound after pregnancy.
Emma: I mean, I think we’re all so over, you know, we have incredibly insane to-do lists. We are managing so much, and we have to keep so many things in our brain where I think at some point, we, well, what I learned is that we’ve become overloaded. So it’s, you have to kind of clear a space for things to enter, which is why you’re forgetting, you know, something that you were supposed to do yesterday or whatnot.
You know, again, like right now, Helen and I, we’re in Idaho and we are decompressing from our, you know, life of being extremely busy in, you know, Los Angeles and taking a week to connect with nature. I don’t know if you can hear the birds in the background, my open window. But, you know, it’s really important for us to disconnect, you know, to, you know, even for us coming on this podcast, I was like, whoa, I gotta like get my my work brain back on and, you know, really be able to communicate. But you know, it’s important to just kind of shut it all down, you know, put the device away, get out into nature, just connect, a hobby, just to be able to sort of clear some space in your mind so that then you can come back into work with like a clearer head, more focus, more clarity. I think that we, it’s so easy just to keep rolling through everything. But it’s important when we can to give our brains and ourselves a break. A brain break.
Katie: Absolutely. And like we talked about in the first episode, that is often very difficult and elusive, especially for moms, because of the sheer amount of demands on our time and the number of people who depend on us. And we talked about how that, while it can feel selfish, I know I’ve struggled with that, taking any time for myself and feeling like I was selfish for not being with my kids. It really is important, not just for our own health, but also I feel like for the example we’re setting for our kids to give them permission to do that as they get older, to hopefully not repeat the cycle of everybody being exhausted and having brain fog.
And you talked about in the first episode, the five pillars, which I love. I love that you made a simple system around this. And I feel like especially for women, these are so helpful and important and also not huge like massive changes we have to make, which is very, I feel like inspiring and helpful because a lot of practitioners, for instance, who have come on this podcast, they use similar analogies with like autoimmune disease or chronic disease that sort of, if we view our health as a container, any number of things can go into that container. But when it overflows, we have problems no matter what went in. Once it overflows, we have problems.
But what I love about that analogy, and to me, what it speaks to is that doesn’t mean we have to completely empty everything in the container to feel better. That means we just have to create margin. We have to create a little bit of room to stop that overflow. And so little positive changes can actually make a massive difference when they help us not overflow the container. And it seems like there’s a similar idea here with brain health. It’s like, we don’t actually have to do everything perfectly to have good brain health as we get older. We actually just need to increase that margin, give our body a little bit more space and margin to feel better. And the body of course is naturally geared toward healing.
I’m curious for both of you, like what are your sort of non-negotiables, your daily habits that you feel like are the most impactful for brain health and that you feel the biggest difference from? Because of course, moms have to prioritize our time so carefully.
Emma: Yeah, you wanna go?
Helen: Yeah, I mean, me is moving. Like, I mean, and being outside. Like, so I’m an avid runner. And so making sure that, and even if I can’t, like, I think this is really important. Even if I can’t make time for an entire run, just to get out and take a walk and go down the street and move. So I think moving is key for me. I have to move every day because I can easily, and I think when we were all in that horrible time, when we were stuck in our homes. You know, everyone was so locked behind the desk and in the Zoom room and we forgot to like go outside and move. And so moving, number one.
And then also making sure that, I think that society’s gotten really wrapped up in self-care. And one of the reasons we called it Make Time is because it looks different for everybody. You know, making time, looks different for Emma than it does for me. And so I think that making time to put time in my calendar. Like I need brain breaks. And when my brain gets tired and it feels all, you know, like when I have too much going on, like I give myself a brain break, I take a minute. I’ll read something. I’ll journal. I make time to connect with my friends and family, really important to me. And but yeah, so movement, giving myself brain breaks, and making time for connection.
Emma: Yeah, I mean, for me, my big, I mean, all of those for me as well. But really what I try and prioritize is sleep. I know that if I don’t sleep well, I’m going to wake up the next morning and just not be at 100%. So sleep has always been important to, you know, give me the energy and the motivation and to be able to think. So I really prioritize my sleep, you know, really practicing good hygiene. And what that means is, you know, to make sure that I’m turning my devices off 30 minutes before I go to sleep. I’m, you know, listening to calming music, which is just so I’ve got an Alexa next to our bed. So I just put, you know, put on that. It’s like setting a mood, right? Like we do that for our children and their nighttime routine. I started to just do it for myself, setting the mood with like this lavender pillows spray that I have and getting the aromatherapy going. And, you know, just really trying to set myself up for success, you know, just like a wind down.
And I loved to read, you know, I’ve been, not that I loved to read, I do love to read, but I haven’t been reading that often. But this year was like that was one of my New Year’s resolution was like, you know what? I’m going to read more. At the end of the night, I’m going to pick up a book and I’m going to read. And I’ve really been enjoying that. And it just kind of like floats me off into like a nice state. And again, not like I’m knocking it out of the park with seven, eight hours of sleep every night. But listen, I’m trying.
And that is the most important with brain health and these pillars is that you’re trying. You know, it’s okay to like, you know, like five pillars, okay, well, how did I take care of my brain today? What did I do? My God, if you got one of the pillars, good for you. You know, I don’t think it’s about perfection here. I just, again, it’s like a lifestyle and implementing these things in that is realistic and simple so that, you know, we can, we can do it.
Yeah, I just get overwhelmed with this idea of like these boxes that we need to fit in to do. I just love, this really works for me. And it’s really just finding out what works for someone else. Like, you know, again, like making time, it’s versus self-care. Sure, self-care. I get that. But for me, that’s just not actionable. Making time is something that feels more like, what do I want to make time for. Well, I want to make time for sleep. I want to make time for my garden. I want to make time to connect with friends. It’s just thinking about it in a different way that gets me up and out.
Helen: So, and I think that in bringing the family into it is really important. So that, you know, mommy’s taking, is making time right now. You know, and like teaching our children to also make time for themselves, I think is key. Like this conversation is really important. And, you know, as parents, I mean, dementia and Alzheimer’s in women are on the rise. And what does that look like? You know, when we have some forethought, of what that might look like. I mean, it’s a really hard thing for families and for children, you know? So I think being proactive is really important. And I love the, you know, mommy’s making time right now, you know, like making it part of the conversation. I think we’re all allowed. And it’s a really great conversation to start having with our kids.
Katie: That’s such a great point. Yeah. And that gives them time actually to have creative free time or boredom, which they, you know, psychiatrists are now saying is actually important for kids and the modern world has sort of removed that variable from their experience, which they think could have long-term consequences for them as well. But I think that’s such an important point to reframe. It’s not selfish for us to tell, and I think great for communication, if we actually use those words and tell them I’m making time right now, I would love to spend time with you at whatever time that’s going to end and setting that expectation. Probably that alone would go such a long way toward helping with the brain fog and the fatigue and the overwhelm that can come with being a mom.
And Emma, to your point, I think I agree. Sleep is to me, one of the biggest levers we can pull for our health. And it is of course, elusive for moms, but it seems that especially in the sleep realm, the brain is sort of like a habit-forming organism. And so the more that we can support the habits around sleep, like you talked about your rituals around it. I know there’s a lot of data pointing out that a consistent sleep time and wake time helps the brain to anchor good sleep patterns. You explained in the first episode that sleep is the time when the glymphatic system is most active, when we can flush beta amyloid plaques from the brain, which seems like that would be an awesome thing to do if we’re trying to be aware of avoiding Alzheimer’s and dementia.
And then also just small things. Like I think because sleep, once we’re doing it as a passive experience, anything we can do to sort of maximize the experience of sleep sort of pays dividends and has very high ROI when it comes to health. So whether that’s being very intentional with our sleep environment and our light environment in our house and with our sleep and wake times, with morning sunlight, which I’m grateful there are so many people talking about now. I think those little habits make a massive difference over time.
And if for the moms listening, the more we do that in our house, the more it also benefits our kids. So I know for me, like if your kids are having trouble sleeping, if you make those switches of like lower lighting in the house after sunset, of not eating dinner after sunset, of sort of screens going away after sunset, you may be shocked how much your kids get sleepy more easily, how much calmer your house feels at night. And in general, how much just like the energy of your home can shift when you make that a habit and a priority. And I think, for our kids, that’s actually one of the best gifts we can give them is a strong foundation in, in health, of course, but especially in sleep, because I will say that over 800 episodes of this podcast, I’ve had experts that disagree on many topics, but not a single one ever, ever say sleep is not super important. So I love that you guys bring this up as well.
Emma: Yeah, implementing sleep is something very important to be able to teach our children and how to wind down and what that looks like. I mean, I think that we need to sort of show them that.
Helen: Yeah, and I think like for me, I mean, I love going to sleep with the moon and waking up with the sun, right? Like, I mean, it’s very important. Like in my home, like we wake up with the sunlight and I think it’s really that circadian rhythm really kind of plays into our good health. And, just letting nature in is so important and not having it kind of blacked out of your atmosphere. Really important for sleep schedules.
Katie: I know we talked about it in the first episode, but let’s also briefly talk about supplements again, especially if there are any that you guys have noticed being really impactful for the sleep piece as well.
Helen: Oh, so, I think, I don’t really, I’m not really right now, taking anything for sleep, are you?
Emma: Oh, I take melatonin, you know, sometimes. Sometimes I take melatonin. I do not take any prescription medication. There was a time that I did when I was modeling and traveling, you know, internationally like crazy. You know, having to get a night’s sleep in a different time zone. You know, I feel like that was like when Ambien was being introduced and no one really understood like the repercussions of that. You know, right? Like no one understood that like you shouldn’t be relying on, it was just, we didn’t know, I didn’t know.
Helen: I really appreciate magnesium for sleep. So when I travel more importantly, I do take melatonin and magnesium. And I think magnesium supplements are amazing to help with sleep. And, you know, I, in my culture, you know, I’m Greek and we love like whole milk or Greek yogurt before bed. Like that’s something that I’ve just done all my life that really helps me personally. But as it relates for supplements and brain health, super important you have a nootropic like cognizin, like the one we have in our Make 10 formula. Also curcumin, something to reduce the inflammation from the body. It really makes your body and your brain like perform very optimally.
And it’s really important when you’re looking at these supplements that you get something that’s very bioavailable. And they are actually able to absorb it. One of the problems with pill form supplements is like you’re not getting, they’re not very absorbable. They go into the gut and your gut will just chew them all up and you’re not absorbing them into your body. And then MCT oil, fatty acids, really great, B vitamins, they are the building blocks for good brain health. They’re very important for the production of neurotransmitters in the brain. And then omegas are really essential also.
Katie: And I also love that because from a nutritional standpoint, those are actually the most common deficiencies in women in general. And you guys have them all in one formula. But especially addressing that inflammation. And now they coined the term inflammaging component of that. Like we know systemic inflammation is on the rise. And so anytime we can address that, I feel like, of course, it’s going to benefit our brain, but also sort of every other area of health.
And also like a lot of experts have said on here, chronic disease is sort of like, and even aging, is like a metabolic disease. And we know that over 90% of Americans now have at least one marker of metabolic dysfunction. So to me, that’s very staggering that less than 10% of the population is considered metabolically healthy. Of course, there’s a lot of factors that go into that, but it would make sense to me that our brains are also suffering because of that, because of the excess sugar consumption, like we talked about in the first episode. Because of insulin being high, because of aging and inflammation as sort of cellular waste built up in the body. And it sounds like you guys have put a lot of the things that help address that into one thing that also, to your point, you said is not a pill. Because I know a lot of people listening, I have been there too. I’ve had spreadsheets of supplements that I took every single day, and it was exhausting. And I feel like we’re having supplement fatigue for real in today’s world. So I love that it’s drinkable.
I’m also curious, you’re both as from a mom’s perspective, you’ve learned so much about brain health and obviously modeling it into your kids is the most important factor, but I’m curious if it’s shifted how you parent or habits within your families, understanding so much about brain health and how you’re helping your kids have a solid foundation there.
Emma: Yeah, I mean, again, like, you know, kids are such sponges. They really are. So, you know, again, they know that sleep is really important to me and that, you know, I really prioritize that. And we just talked about that, you know, how implementing this sort of, calm environment within our household has really helped them. My two girls, they’re 12 and 10. You know, again, with nutrition and, you know, just making sure that whatever, you know, I’m getting, they’re also being served. So, you know, fish and it’s not like they’re always, listen, they love some chicken nuggets and some French fries, you know, let’s be realistic here. But if I can’t get a really good solid base for them that day, you know what they get? They get a smoothie. And within that smoothie, you know, I’ll add some really, you know, wild blueberries, that’s so good for, you know, for your brain, and I can just supplement them in that way, where you’re just sneaking it in, right?
Exercise, you know, again, I’m out, hey, you guys want to come out for a walk with me, or we’ll get on our bikes, you know, where we are right now, we’re able to sort of do the loop, and we’re able to hike, and you know, it’s just about how to make it fun, as well, for kids. Kids want to be outside, for the most part, you know, I know my kids love to be, you know, outdoors. And you know, teaching them about stress reduction. And, you know, maybe in schools, you know, they’re teaching these kids how to meditate, which I just think is such a beautiful thing, not something that I grew up with. But they are learning about mindfulness. I think, you know, that is really something important for me that I’m implementing. When I’m out in the garden and they see that sort of my time of like, you know, I’m relaxing. I’m in it. I love it. And it’s just, they’re seeing what I’m doing and then they find their sort of way with what they like to do.
Helen: Yeah, and we’re here, you know, we’re here together. And so we were all out yesterday. And I think communication is key because like what I hear Emma’s girls is like, oh, are we making time? Like they’re in, you know, we made time for a hike. We’re like, we’re going to make time for, it’s really cute, you know, because when you start having a conversation, they’re like little parrots. They pick it up. You know, so I think communication is key. And like under the mom lens, like, of course, you’re trying to make sure, you know, your children have their nutrients and their health is, you know, the top of everyone’s mind, but, I think the communication is really important. And that emotional and mental health piece and communicating with them is super important because that’s kind of like what I get. Like they’re little sponges and parrots. They pick it up.
Katie: Such a good point. And I know you guys have also a lot of resources available online, both on the educational side and then of course in the supplement world as well. I will put links in the show notes to all of those for everybody listening, but can you also just speak to where you guys are online and the various ways people can find you and keep learning from you on this topic?
Helen: Sure. So we’re at Make Time Wellness. We’re at maketimewellness.com. We’re @maketimewellness on Instagram and all the social sites. We also have maketimepod, which is our Make Time Podcast where we bring in experts, where we give women very actionable ways that they could make time. Because like I said earlier, everybody makes time differently.
Emma: And, sometimes you need, you know, what I love about our podcast is that, you know, sometimes you need to be inspired by others, right? Sometimes, but you know, when I first started this idea of making time, I had no clue what I actually like to do. I had completely lost, you know, all connection to who I am. Like, what are the things that I love to do? And again, like I said, I can keep going on about gardening, but it’s, you know, that’s why I like, we learn from other women. And they learn from us.
Helen: And then also on our website, we have information about Hilarity for Charity. Hilarity for Charity is our social impact program. We donate proceeds of Make Time. They’re a great organization. They have a lot of resources for people dealing with people in their family that have brain health issues, kids, caregivers. And so they’re a really great resource.
Emma: Yeah, I love Hilarity for Charity. They, you know, they support families going through the Alzheimer’s journey. They advance brain health research and they’re also educating this new generation of brain healthy advocates that we need out there. Our brand is a very mission- and purpose-based brand.
Katie: I love that. And Hilarity for Charity, that’s a great name. I will make sure there are links to everything you guys have mentioned in the show notes, as well as where people can find you and follow you and keep learning from you. But I’m so grateful that you guys are bringing a voice to this conversation. Like we talked about in the first episode, brain health is not talked about for women nearly enough slash at all. Like you guys brought that up. I’ve never been asked by a healthcare provider about anything related to brain health. So I love that you guys are working to change that and that you have created resources around that and products to help people actively do that. And I’m very grateful for your time. I know that you’re both very busy. We’ve talked about how hard it is to make time. And I’m grateful that you did today for us and for our listeners. Thank you so much for being here.
Helen: Thanks, Katie.
Emma: Thanks, Katie. It was nice talking to you. Thank you so much.
Katie: And thank you as always for listening and sharing your most valuable resources, your time, your energy, and your attention with us today. We’re all so grateful that you did. And I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the Wellness Mama podcast.
If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.
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