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Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.
Hello, and welcome to the Wellness Mama podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com. And this episode is all about conscious parenting as busy parents, especially of teenagers in the age of technology and distraction. And I’m back with Paola Telfer, who is a tech entrepreneur and founder of the company Sens.ai, which is S-E-N-S dot A-I. And it’s a neurotechnology company that helps people take control of their brain’s neuroplasticity and extend their cognitive health span. But she’s also a mom of a teenager. And in this conversation, that’s what we go deep on of how to parent teenagers in an increasingly technological world where we know the downsides and potential harms of some types of technology, especially in certain amounts. But this is also a variable that our children will likely always have to navigate in adult life. And so how do we give them the proper foundation and resources for managing technology in their lives while also maintaining a strong relationship with them. We also touch on things like sleep schedule and chores and strengthening relationships with our teenagers in general, as well as the importance of modeling. I really enjoyed this conversation. She and I are very aligned in a lot of aspects of our parenting, including in wanting to pass on some entrepreneurial foundation to our kids. It’s a very fun conversation. I hope you enjoy it as well. Let’s jump in. Paola, welcome back. Thanks for being here again.
Paola: Hi, Katie.
Katie: I am so excited to chat with you again. We got to have an awesome first conversation about the exciting new world of brain training at home and all of the different things that can help with in daily life. And when you and I first connected on the phone offline, we also chatted a decent amount about parenting. And I realized we were really aligned in a lot of areas of parenting and you have a teenage son as well. I have three, soon to be four teenagers. So I’m right there with you on that. And I thought a conversation about conscious parenting in the modern world would be a really fun follow-up conversation because certainly our generation of parents are facing all kinds of things that previous generations haven’t had to navigate. So we’re kind of the test subjects, the first ones navigating this world with our kids. And I know many parents and me as well feel like the stakes are pretty high and we’re kind of learning as we go on a rapid trail run kind of. So I would love to kind of delve into that parenting conversation that you and I got to have offline and talk about conscious parenting, especially of teenagers, and how to navigate that in such a technologically driven world. And I know you have a whole lot of insight here. So I’ll start with that as a broad question, and then we can narrow down a bunch after your basic answer.
Paola: Yeah, no, for sure. I agree. I think the stakes are high. Yeah, so I have a 14-year-old son. And, you know, you know, he went to Waldorf for his early years. And so there was, there were no screens. I love the Waldorf schooling. It’s, you know, very, very heart centered. And then when COVID hit, there was suddenly this influx of technology, right, required, right? And so, you know, we maybe, you know, sort of naively were like, yeah, sure, you can have a phone, but maybe no data plan, right? So we kind of went into that world. But then, of course, you needed a laptop, too. And then, you know, the Pandora’s box sort of opened, right? And slowly, but surely, more technology was being requested.
And I think there was, there was a moment for me where I realized that, you know, it was like, we were having like a standoff, right, you know, like on, on gaming and phones. And I thought, wait, how did we, how did we get here? How did this happen when we were just in Waldorf? And now, and I thought that, you know, I thought that he used to look at me differently. He used to just do what I said, right? And so there was a sort of deep reflection moment where we’re like, okay, we’re really busy. And my husband and I work together, we’re really busy with the company. And I think we’ve left a vacuum, right? I think that we have inadvertently diverted our attention when he really needed our attention. And what’s filled the vacuum has been this online world this online, right? So, and I think that, we had to, we had to figure out what are we going to do about it? How are we going to step up as parents and double down here?
Katie: Yeah, I’m curious what that progression looked like in your family, because I have had experiences like that as well. And I realized as a mom, technology is seemingly not going away. If anything, it’s only going to become more ubiquitous in our lives and in their lives as they get older. And so this is a variable they’re going to have to probably live their whole lives managing and self-managing at some point, because once they’re adults, we’re not going to be there to help them manage it. But that said, it seems like with the addictive potential of screens, they do need some guidance in the early phase of learning how to integrate that with their lives in a kind of responsible and conscious way.
And I also know with teenagers, my goal is that I want them to be as autonomous as possible and to limit them as little as possible. But also the flip side of that is them demonstrating their responsibility and the good decision-making to be able to handle that autonomy. So I’m curious what that transition looked like for you guys and how you managed it, because I would guess many parents listening can resonate with having had that experience at various times.
Paola: Yeah, for sure. Well, and I think we had pulled him out of Waldorf at this point. And he was now moved to an outdoor school, right, which is which had its own benefits. But now, yeah, he had the technology available to him. And so we did go very much to, okay, what are the, what are the processes we need to put in place? What are the fair sort of rules that we need to impose on the technology? And how do we optimize the benefit and limit the addiction potential here? And so I think there were a couple of key, you know, there were probably, there were some stumbles, for sure. And then I think we came to the realization that it was a relationship focus that was required, actually. It was a relationship focus. I, we needed him to want to please us, we needed him to actually want to, you know, admire us again, to value the relationship again, and he needed to have our attention. So that was that was first and foremost.
And then when, you know, and, you know, initially, we did definitely, you know, try and buckle down on the rules, but that doesn’t really work. And then when we had reestablished the relationship through, you know, one-on-one time and, really just more, more attention and more valuing him as an individual and as an individual that’s coming into his maturity, then we actually brought him into the discussion. We brought him in and said you know, this is what we understand about the addictive potential of the technology. He knows a lot about Sens.ai and that we work in brain health and he’s relatively mature. And we said, you know, what should we do? Right. How, what makes sense to you? And and so when we established the rules that we abide by, they were applied to Jeff and I as well.
So, you know, so as an example, one of the things that we’ve talked about before is how important it is to be present with another person, but of course with your child. And they know that, they know that when your eyes are looking at them, when you’re listening to them, when you’re curious about what their world is versus, you imposing on them, your world. And so he, you know, he voiced to us, you know, you guys are on your phone sometimes when you’re talking to me, right? And that’s, you know, that’s, it’s just good self-reflection, right? So, as a parent and, you know, as someone who’s like interested in personal growth, I had to, you know, sort of, take that criticism in and realize I want to be better, right? So, I’m going to welcome you to give me that feedback. And I’m going to leave that door open for you to, and I’m going to reflect. And sometimes when you, you know, you give us that feedback, you know, we might disagree, but it’s okay.
And then we, for example, you know, we have the Wi-Fi turn off at a certain time of evening and then it doesn’t come back on until the morning, right? But that’s something that we’ve all agreed to. So it’s not us sort of top-down imposing that on him, right? And we’ve even, we’ve had struggles where he’s told us, you know what? I’m actually not sleeping well. Like he’ll get up early and he’ll confess this, right? Because the relationship is there. He’s like, I’m getting up early and I’m going on my phone, right? And he’s actually said that to us. And I said, do you want us to take that into our room in the evening and charge it in our room, right? And he said, yeah, I think that’s probably best, right? So that’s, you know, that’s part of the keeping the communication lines open and also letting him be a part of that decision-making because he’s a teenager now. He’s not a baby.
Katie: I think there are so many powerful things in what you just explained. By having that relationship open and not just reacting with, okay, well, now you’re grounded from your phone for two weeks or whatever, because you went on it at these times. Instead, that communication is now open. And for him to have that awareness and maturity and even agreement that, yeah, that was going to be a better path at his age is, I think, a testament to the relationship you have with him. I remember reading the statistic and having a parenting expert on here a while back who said, you know, we often as moms, especially feel guilty if we’re not spending all of our time with our kids, but they actually only need a small amount, arguably between 10 and 30 minutes a day of our actually truly focused attention on them to feel connected and present. They don’t need 24/seven. They wouldn’t want 24/seven, nor would that arguably be the best thing for them, but they do need those short touchpoints of feeling like that they are connected, that we are actually listening, that they’re being heard. And so it seems like that’s what you guys started with, which I think is such an important foundation.
And then with teenagers, especially what you talked about, as far as letting them have input, I think goes a tremendous distance in our relationship with our teenagers, because I find with my older ones, if they have a solid foundation, often if you let them have input, they will choose even more strict potential boundaries for themselves than I would have chosen for them. And it just reminds me when I have those interactions with my kids, how much of it, like they have a good foundation, but they also have really good heads on their shoulders and their ability to make great decisions will often far surpass what I would have expected if I were making the decision. So I think there’s so much wisdom in letting them have that input.
Do you have guidelines like time-based guidelines as well around amount of screen time? Or is that sort of like, does he get to have a lot of input there as well? And is that based on making sure he gets other things done? Or how do you manage the time variable with screens?
Paola: Well, definitely, it’s been something that we’ve collaborated on. And we, you know, we opened that with a question, how should we manage this? You know, your schoolwork’s not getting done, for example, because there’s ups and downs, right? It’s never been like just completely rosy. But when we have had those periods, you know, we wait until it’s a little bit calmer, right? And then we ask him and we say, okay, so now, you know, you’ve gotten your grades back up, how should we manage this going forward? And so what we’ve arrived at the moment is, you know, half an hour during the week. And for him, it’s gaming, it’s not social media. And then on the weekends, you know, roughly an hour per day. And so he keeps to those, we actually monitor them on at the Wi-Fi router level, so that he has to ask special permission, let’s say if you know, the grandparents are over and they’re gaming together or something like that, then, you know, he has to ask special permission to increase his time. So we do monitor it that way. But he’s pretty good at self-monitoring as well, because he was involved in imposing those timelines. And it is definitely after the schoolwork is done.
Katie: Yeah, and I love the tips about taking the Wi-Fi down at night. I’ve done a post on that before because it’s something as simple as getting a digital timer and connecting it to wherever you plug that in. And ours does that as well. The Wi-Fi just naturally goes down. And we try as much as possible to not do screens very much, especially after sunset, just because we’ve had those same conversations. It’s not me mandating it. It’s that they understand your body wouldn’t be exposed to bright lights at night if you were in nature. So let’s try to bring some nature into our home, go to dimmer lighting, read books, spend time together, play games, but not be on screens.
And I think also what you said about modeling is tremendous because I had a similar realization is how can I tell them not to be on screens when half the time when they’re asking me questions, I’m also distracted by my phone. And I think that crosses all areas of parenting. What we model is so much more powerful than what we say even. And so I think if we model it first, whether that be fitness, whether that be brain health, whether that be getting morning sunlight. I know I told my kids for years, you know, morning sunlight’s important. And they only really started doing it when they, when I did it. I, so I used to do it really early in the morning before they got up. And when I started also going back outside and getting morning sunlight, when they were awake, they started paying a lot more attention because they saw me do it. And then it became a time we could hang out and it was social. And now that’s a habit for them. But I think modeling is so tremendously important.
And also to your point, I think if we start from that relationship-first perspective, it also kind of counteracts a lot of the potential pitfalls we could run into as a parent. It removes some of those power struggles. It removes the potential barriers they could run into if it’s relationship-first and we’re modeling it because we’re not, we’re showing them behavior, not just mandating it from the outside. And I’m curious, what do you consider the most important part of managing or having a relationship with a teenager especially?
Paola: Yeah, I mean, it’s interesting because it used to be different. It used to be easier, right, before the teenage years. And when we had to take another look, I realized it’s not that different from a romantic relationship, right? You need to nurture it, right? And you need to find joy in each other’s company. And it’s so simple, really. It’s like we make dates, right? So we go skiing together, right? We go mountain biking together. We’ll go kayaking together and things like that. But we’ll also cook together, right? And then we’ve made meals, very sacrosanct, right?
And then it’s also, you know, it’s again the screen struggle where if I am checking my phone, he’ll call me out on it too, right? So it’s like even for me, it’s like work stuff. So he’s like, I totally understand. This actually happened this last week. I totally understand that you need to take that call from Corey. He said, but it’d be nice if you said to me, I’m going to go take that call. And then you left the area where Daddy and I are, right? And I’m like, oh, you’re totally right. That would be much more respectful. So it’s really a matter of showing them some respect, but also treating them like, I don’t know, I guess you’d say like a friend or a partner, right? And nurturing that joy and the fun of being together. I think when that’s in place, the rest kind of flows. Then it’s easier for us to have a conversation about why some rules may have been, you know, crossed.
Katie: Yeah, that makes sense. And I think I’ve always had this theory that with kids, toddlers, and when they’re really young, they need sort of boundaries to understand their world and to know like sort of where are the edges of safety and stability. And if they understand clearly their boundaries and they don’t change all the time based on our whims, they can coexist with them very peacefully. And I find teenagers are wired for autonomy, which is great. That’s actually what nature intended, but they’re sort of wired to push boundaries if they feel like they’re not fair or if they’re unnecessary. I feel like teenagers have a very strong sense of justice. And so by having that good relationship with them and not having boundaries that aren’t necessary or letting them set their internal boundaries whenever possible, I feel like it just diffuses a lot of that potential parenting stress. Because I know there’s all the jokes on the internet about how difficult teenagers are. And I find I’m really enjoying my teenagers and the ages that they are. But I think it’s because we have some of those foundational elements in place. And so we’re not butting heads on things for the most part. Do you have any form of like litmus test with teenagers to know kind of how that relationship is or check in or kind of get a feel for how it’s going?
Paola: Yeah, I mean, you know, the answer that comes to mind is how much they share with you, right? Like, you know, how many secrets are you privy to, right? So it’s a matter of trust, right? Like, like a lot of, you know, very intimate relationships, right? Like, what, yeah, when he’s having trouble with something, who does he go to, right? And does he value the direction that I would give, the opinion that I would have? I think that’s the litmus test for me. And so far, so good, you know, but that’s what I look to.
Katie: I love that. I’ve seen something floating around that said, you know, if something stressful or tough happens for my kids, I hope their first thought is, I want to call my mom because she’ll know what to do and not like, oh, shoot, my mom can’t find out. I got to not tell my mom because I feel like, largely part to my own rebellion, but as a teenager, I was that difficult kid who often just didn’t tell my parents things conveniently rather than have to like have those conversations with them. And so far, it seems like my kids have a pretty open relationship and they actually come to me with stuff. So that’s, that’s sort of my litmus test as well. And I feel like it’s really encouraging to see that as they get older.
I also know you are a busy entrepreneur as well, and that managing mom life plus business life can get overwhelming sometimes. And I know we did our whole first episode about Sens.ai, which I think is a valuable tool for managing the overwhelm that can come from that. But I’m curious if you have any strategies for how you maintain work-life balance and make sure that you keep that solid relationship with your son and also with your husband and how you keep all of those, all those plates in the air gracefully.
Paola: Oh, wow. That’s a tough one. Yeah. I feel like, first and foremost, you know, to have a relationship with other, you have to have a good relationship with yourself, right? And so it really is about, okay, how am I going to maintain, you know, an exercise routine? How am I going to make sure I’m eating well and not just in a rush eating while I’m running through things? And so having some, you know, I guess anchor points in my day where I’m like, okay, this is the time I do this. This is the time I do that. And having communicated that to my husband, my son, and then everybody understands. And that’s sort of that respected time, right? Or I periodically, you know, I need to refuel with a girlfriend and go, you know, go do like a spa day or whatever it is where I go for a walk or a hike. So those kinds of things are understood and communicated in advance, right? So I think that’s a big part of the mental health and the physical health. And then I can show up more fully. So, yeah, I mean, I have a meditative practice as well. And for me, that’s meshed with Sens.ai. And I do that every morning. I do that every evening. And, you know, my husband, my son have a similar routine. And so that’s really helpful, I think, because I think when we’re all doing that inner work, it makes our home that much more harmonious. And everybody is that much more receptive to feedback and able to kind of bounce back when, you know, things are tough. Yeah.
Katie: Yeah, I think that’s an important point, especially for moms is we talked about modeling and setting the example. I think in self-care can be one of the hardest areas to do that, at least speaking personally as a mom, because we’re seemingly wired to like put out the fires, make sure everybody’s okay, take care of everyone. But I started realizing with my kids, if I don’t also set the example of taking care of myself, I’m not giving them permission to do that when they’re older or now. And so I think that you touched on something so important, which is it’s not selfish to build in those times of self-care, even if it’s just times of like 15 minutes of quiet in your own room without kid questions or whatever it is that helps you find that calm. It actually is a really important example for them. And when we do it, we give them permission and example to start doing that as well. And also the flip side of that, I think, is respecting their times of self-care or if they need downtime or maybe they need more connection to feel calm and rested. Or maybe they need whatever it may be, like respecting that and also setting the example by doing it ourselves so that they can give themselves the inner permission to do it as well.
Paola: Yeah, like my son’s really into working out now. So I’m really encouraging him to do that and set a routine even during the school week, right? And so you’re right, you can’t promote that if you’re not modeling it, right? Or else it’s just so, to teenagers, it’s so transparent. They’re like, you know, they’re not going to buy that.
Katie: Exactly. What about any tips around teenagers and sleep? Because I know in our first episode, we talked about how Sens.ai helps so much with sleep, which is a struggle for many moms, especially who are listening. But it seems like teenagers can have some sleep struggles as well. And I’ve even had sleep experts on here who explain teenagers’ brains are wired a little differently than adult brains, and they do actually naturally want to go to bed later. Ideally, in a perfect world, they will be able to sleep a little later as well, which isn’t always possible with the way the school system is set up. But I’m curious if you guys have any boundaries or guidelines around sleep, or if he has self-managed his sleep schedule, or any tips that you have there.
Paola: Yeah, on that one, he has kind of self-managed. So I would think, yeah, so he goes to bed at 9:30 pretty much every night, like even on holidays, and he wakes up at 7 or like 6:30 during school, and then 7 on the weekends. And so that’s, yeah, that’s kind of been an easy part of it for us. Now, I have to say, he does do brain training. And so, there is a program on the SMR, one we call focus, it actually helps regulate that sensory motor rhythm. And then the deep alpha brain training, which we call a deep calm, really helps to, I guess, calm down the brainwaves as well. And so I feel like he has done some of that rewiring as well, that might be helping him to self-regulate his sleep. So that hasn’t been an issue for us. I think the only time it’s been an issue has been because he had the phone available. And he fessed up about that, that I shared already.
Katie: That’s awesome. And I feel like having something like the Sens.ai is super helpful because sleep can be such an issue, especially for teenagers. And the fact that it’s addressing the SMR side of it is really profound. Because I know it’s like they joke about sleep being tough when you have babies and then sleep being tough again when you have teenagers. And I’m learning with my older ones who can drive now, it’s this whole new world when they’re very responsible and respectful and they get permission to go out and do stuff late at night, but I’m still having trouble sleeping until they get home. So it’s a whole new world to navigate.
What about related to sort of like family responsibilities or chores or maintaining the house? Any guidelines for that? Because I feel like that’s the other big silo of parenting that can be stressful for some people.
Paola: Yeah, I mean, you know, it’s funny, we had we had a conversation about that this week, because and he was, so he’s actually really good about doing chores around the house. Now, we have promoted in him a little bit of an entrepreneur, you know. So he recently was sharing with us that he would like to make some money. So he’s like, you know what, I really, I don’t mind doing the chores around the house. And he’s okay about it. You know, sometimes we have to, you know, remind him. And then he’s like, but you know, what would be better is I would think I would feel more motivated if there was, you know, some money associated. So he did raise that recently when I was offering, I was open for feedback. So then, you know, that is something I think we would consider.
We did do that for, like, we live in Whistler so there’s snow to be shoveled. And so for this, the snow season, ski season, that we just had, he negotiated with us that he would shovel, like all, all around the outside of the house. And he would do it on a retainer. And instead of like on a per hour basis, which I thought was actually brilliant. I complied because it was so brilliant because it was no longer dependent on the weather. So we did that with him, which worked out really well for him because it was not a lot of snow this season. So, I, again, you know, when I, to answer your question, I think it comes back to relationship, right? So if he’s at a point where he, he values the relationship, he feels seen. He doesn’t feel like I’m just coming at him and going, hey, do the dishes. Hey pick up your clothes. And it’s more like he doesn’t want to upset the relationship because we like each other and he’s respectful of our parenting, then he will naturally comply. So when he gets to a point where he’s not complying, if he starts getting a little bit defiant, I would first think, okay, wait, where is the relationship right now? Have I been very distracted of late? And do I need to spend some time nurturing that again?
Katie: Yeah, I love that approach. And I know we share this same kind of entrepreneurial passion and wanting our kids to get to have that experience as well if they want to. And I think offline, you and I talked about, and I’ve mentioned on here before, that I have a contract with my kids that they have to have a profitable business for a year before they can have a phone or a car. And it doesn’t have to be wildly profitable. It just has to have a business plan and show a profit. And what I didn’t expect in doing that, I expected that by 16, they would get motivated and want to do that so they could drive. I didn’t expect that they would do it at younger and younger ages. And so now my older four, of which the youngest one of those four is only 12, they all have phones because they’ve already done that. And the cool part to watch is that they do that in one silo and then they go, I don’t think that’s the business I want to do forever, but now I want to do a different one. And so to get to see that entrepreneurial mindset start to play out even well in advance of them being 18 is so fun. And it seems like you have that similar just approach with your son in that he gets to see you model it all the time. And he understands the entrepreneurial language. And he probably thinks like an entrepreneur even already. And so it’ll be fun as a parent, I’m sure for us both to get to see where that goes for all of these kids.
Paola: I love the way that you’re raising your kids, like both the homeschooling and then, you know, that arrangement that you described. I think it’s just so brilliant. And you’re right. So I think what’s nice about entrepreneurship from a learning perspective is that it crosses all the different, you know, like, is it about technology? No. Is it about business? No. Is it about chemistry, let’s say, or whatever? No, it’s actually across all of it. And it’s actually a concept of how do I create value for others, right? And so then there’s an impetus, a natural drive and curiosity required to kind of figure it all out that can be very self-directed.
And so, yeah, we absolutely encourage that with him whenever we see a spark of some kind. So he did set up a business last year that was like an online business around apparel, but he had to, you know, build it all himself. You know, right now he’s really interested in investments. And so we set up a simulator for him so he can, without money, you know, actually see the stock market investments that he makes and see what happens, right? And so then learning by doing and with an idea of, you know, how can I create value from this?
Katie: I love it. Well, you are such a joy. I feel like we could talk all day long and I love that we got to go into the realm of parenting as well in this conversation. I will link to our first episode that went deep on the brain training side, but for anybody who’s interested in learning more from you or learning more about Sens.ai and trying it, where can they find that online?
Paola: Yeah, I mean, our website is the same as our name, S-E-N-S dot A-I. We pronounce it Sens.ai. And then our LinkedIn, you know, you can find us on LinkedIn, you can find us on Instagram, and you can find us on Facebook as well. So just follow and feel free to pop a question in as well.
Katie: Amazing. Well, all of those links will be in the show notes for anybody listening on the go. That’s always at wellnessmama.com. But thank you so much for the time and for such a fun conversation about parenting and then our previous conversation all about brain health and brain training. This has really been fun. I’ve learned a lot and I just enjoy talking to you. So thank you for the time today.
Paola: Thank you so much, Katie. It was such a joy.
Katie: And thank you, as always, for listening and sharing your most valuable resources, your time, your energy, and your attention with us today. We’re both so grateful that you did. And I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the Wellness Mama podcast.
If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.
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