649: Dr. Izabella Wentz on the Adrenal Transformation Protocol to Reset the Body’s Stress Response

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Katie: Hello, and welcome to the Wellness Mama Podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com, and this episode is all about adrenal health and especially the adrenal transformation protocol that can help reset your body’s stress response. And I’m here with Dr. Izabella Wentz, who is a dear friend of mine and someone whose work has really helped me on my own personal healing journey of thyroid health. And she is a compassionate, innovative, and solution focused integrative pharmacist who is dedicated to finding the root causes of chronic health conditions.

And this stems from her own diagnosis with Hashimoto’s in 2009, followed by a decade of debilitating symptoms. And she has written several bestselling books, including the New York Times bestseller Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis Lifestyle Interventions for Finding and Treating the Root Cause, and also the New York Times number one bestseller, Hashimoto’s Protocol: A 90 Day Plan for Reversing Thyroid Symptoms and Getting Your Life Back. And she’s written other books as well. Like I said, her work was very personally helpful for me. Her new book is called Adrenal Transformation Protocol, and this focuses on resetting the body’s stress response through targeted safety signals. And it’s a four week program that’s helped over 3500 people already. And we talk a lot about that today.

We talk about the adrenal thyroid connection and why it’s important to understand. We talk about what exactly adrenal dysfunction is and how to know if we have it, and how adrenal issues can lead to other hormone imbalances in the body and the stress connection there. We talk about some symptoms that may point to adrenal dysfunction and a lot of solutions that may help. We go through her personal experience with adrenal fatigue that led to this work.

We address the myth of does adrenal fatigue actually exist and why some doctors claim it doesn’t. We talk about how as a new mom, she couldn’t do many of the things that were in her traditional toolkit for adrenal fatigue and what she discovered instead that was actually more helpful and has now been impactful for thousands of people. And we really go deep on the safety signals piece and repatterning the chronic stress response. So, Dr. Wentz’s, always an absolute wealth of knowledge, and I am so excited to share this episode with you. So let’s join Dr. Izabella Wentz. Dr. Izabella Wenz. Welcome back.

Dr. Izabella: Hi, Katie. It’s so great to see you again.

Katie: Oh, likewise. And I always learned so much from you first in the realm of thyroid health. And we’re going to get to go in another direction today. But before we do, I have a note from my show notes that you learned how to ride a bike in high heels in Amsterdam, and I would love to hear that story.

Dr. Izabella: My husband and I lived in the Netherlands for for exactly a year, right around the time I published my first book. And we didn’t have a car during that time. And so oftentimes I was going to different places and it just wasn’t really practical to have a backpack with tons of stuff. So if ever I was going out to meet somebody and I wanted to be dressed kind of nicely, you get there by bike, right? And so I had to figure out how to ride the bike gracefully, like having hair and makeup and high heels and like a nice dress on. Because, I mean, like, in the US. I’ve always like just gone bike riding where you just it’s like an athletic endeavor, right? But in the Netherlands, that’s just the way of life is just riding your bike around town, whether you’re going to the grocery store or a date or they have these amazing bikes called Mama Feats where you can load up like three kids in the bike and just pedal along. So quite the adventure.

Katie: So cool and so many probably lessons there about cultures that are better about incorporating movement as part of everyday life instead of us thinking of them as exercise and going to a gym for them. I’m sure that was a really fun time. And also, of course, European countries are typically a little better set up for walking and biking than a lot of places in the US. At least where I live. But such a cool story. I know you’ve been well traveled your whole life, and that’s really cool to hear that part of the story. Also, people may be familiar because I’ve talked about you quite a bit before, I first met you and got to know you through your work on thyroid health, which was a big part of my own journey for a lot of years. And now you have a book that I’m really excited about and got to preview about adrenal health. And I would love to start here because I think a lot of people might view this as a departure from your work in thyroid health, but you make a really strong case explaining how the two are so intricately connected. So to start off, will you kind of walk us through the connection between adrenal health and thyroid health?

Dr. Izabella: Yeah, of course. So definitely everybody that I’ve worked with I won’t say every single person has some degree of adrenal dysfunction, but I will say about 90% of people do. So if they have a thyroid condition like Hashimoto’s autoimmune hypothyroidism, their adrenals are going to be affected. There’s a few different ways where this can happen. And the body doesn’t have these little hormones that are just isolated from one another. They talk to each other, right?

And with our adrenal hormones, when we have too much or too little cortisol this perceived by the thyroid gland as a stress signal. And then that causes the thyroid gland to say, hey, we need to slow down the metabolism. And then more of reverse T3 is formed. Reverse T3 is a thyroid hormone that blocks thyroid receptors rather than activating them. And so whenever we have too much cortisol happening, this can actually impact our thyroid function. Whether we have a thyroid condition, quote, unquote, that’s diagnosed or not. This can happen in just about every person that’s under stress.

And then the other piece of that is when we are hypothyroid, this will actually impact how we clear out stress hormones. We tend to keep them around longer in the body, and it’s a bit of a compensation, a bit of a mechanism that the body does to protect ourselves. And oftentimes people will start on thyroid hormones and they start feeling better initially because their thyroid hormone imbalance is corrected. But this can actually unmask an adrenal hormone imbalance.

Oftentimes people’s thyroid issues start with a significant amount of stress where the body gets stuck in this chronic stress response, which we’ll talk about today, and then our cortisol output is affected. So we typically may not have enough cortisol production happening if we’re in this stress response for too long. And thyroid hormone can actually increase the clearance of that cortisol, which we already may not have enough of. So people may end up actually feeling worse after starting on thyroid meds if they’re not supporting their adrenal hormones correctly.

Katie: That’s fascinating. Okay. And it sounds like someone who has adrenal issues might also have thyroid issues without knowing it or that they’re obviously very intricately connected. Before we get deeper into the nuance of it, can you also just explain what adrenal dysfunction is and maybe what’s going on in the body and how someone might know if they have that and haven’t known of it before?

Dr. Izabella: Absolutely. So adrenal issues and adrenal dysfunction is kind of the more correct term, but people might say something like having burnout or having adrenal fatigue or the scientific term for it is Hpa axis dysfunction or hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis dysfunction. And what essentially is happening is we feel like crap. So we’re tired in the morning, we can’t get out of bed. We are sluggish, we have brain fog. We might feel irritable, we might feel anxious. We have that 3pm crash. Where oh, my gosh, it’s 3pm, I feel like I need to take a nap. And then we get to the evening time, and rather than being ready to go to bed, we might feel wired but tired.

And a lot of other things like craving salts, craving sugar, craving wine, being addicted to coffee, being overweight and even not being able to carry enough weight on, not being able to build muscle mass. These are all some of the manifestations of being in that chronic stress state, that adrenal dysfunction, where our body just doesn’t produce the right amounts of stress hormones at the right time.

Katie: And you mentioned Cortisol and stress hormones. Is this stemming from too much Cortisol, or is something else going on in the body? Is there a Cortisol connection there?

Dr. Izabella: Yeah, cortisol is like one of these things we hear and if we’ve tuned into media or just kind of the common conventional thinking is like, cortisol is bad, right? Kind of like you hear cholesterol is bad and all these things are bad. But when we look at what it actually is and what it does in our body, we do need some Cortisol, especially we need higher levels of Cortisol in the morning to help wake up and have energy and help us manage the inflammation that naturally occurs from just living life. And then we want to have a lower amount of Cortisol in the evenings to help us fall asleep.

So the problems with adrenal dysfunctions can occur when make too much Cortisol, when we are on a Cortisol roller coaster where maybe we have not enough Cortisol in the morning and too much in the evening. And then some people, and definitely people with like chronic fatigue syndrome, oftentimes with autoimmune thyroid disease and other kinds of autoimmune conditions, they might not have enough Cortisol. They might have flatlined adrenals where these people are going to be like, super fatigued and tired all day and have unrefreshing sleep. So really, any kind of deviation from that healthy Cortisol curve of producing enough Cortisol to wake us up and give us bright eyed, bushy tailed energy in the morning and going like a gradual slide throughout the day, any deviation from that can present with symptoms and dysfunction.

Katie: That was definitely me when I was first diagnosed. I know when they tested me, I think I had sort of the reverse pattern of what you were supposed to have with not enough in the morning and too much at night. And I definitely saw that reflected in my energy levels. And I also want to make sure we explain. So could someone also still have adrenal dysfunction without having thyroid issues?

Dr. Izabella: Absolutely. And I’m really passionate about getting the word out about this because so many people have reached out to me and they’re like, I have some of these symptoms that you talk about. I’m struggling with weight gain, I’m struggling with fatigue, brain fog, sleep issues. I’m anxious, I’m irritable, I have like, no libido and the whole list of things. And they’re like, but my thyroid is normal, and there’s nothing going on with my thyroid. And can you help me? And a lot of times it’s actually like, we need adrenal support. I’ve had some people that were put on thyroid meds when they didn’t need to be on them because they thought that was going to help them lose weight and overcome their fatigue. And that just made things worse for them. So I would say if you have this right now, this is going on in your life, this is the time to act, even if you don’t have a quote unquote diagnosis. Because if you let it go on long enough, that leads to basically your body not being able to fix itself and not to build itself up over time.

Katie: And I know your first book about thyroid health was so helpful for me personally when I was going through that, and life changing for many others as well, and reflected in the fact that it became a bestseller through it helping so many people. And so I’m curious, do you also have a personal story with adrenal dysfunction? Because your thyroid story ended up impacting thousands and thousands of people. Did you have a personal journey with adrenal health as well?

Dr. Izabella: I’m so glad that the book was helpful on your journey. It’s just such an honor to be able to help people with going over what happened to me and all the awful things, right? And I’m like, if I could turn it around and just help one person, this is why I do what I do. And yes, I’ve had more than my fair share of adrenal fatigue, adrenal dysfunction, of course, the first time was when I was on my healing journey with my thyroid and I actually didn’t believe that adrenal fatigue existed because that’s what all of the medical websites will say. And I was a very skeptical pharmacist. But then I looked at the symptoms and I was like, holy cow, I do have these symptoms. And so I did what was recommended and my symptoms got better. So my fatigue got better. Irritability, unrefreshing sleep, anxiety, all these things just like, stabilized when I did the recommended protocols.

And then I also had another bout of adrenal fatigue after my book came out and my thyroid was already stabilized. Everything was going well, but I had created a documentary series about five years ago and then had a book launch and just had just way too much stress in my life at the time. And I was up like at 2 to 3a.m. Just trying to get things done and waking up at 7a.m. And so sleep deprivation is definitely one of the fastest ways to get in it. And so I was able to get myself out in like 30 days with just some really intense lifestyle.

And then the last time was, and I know I had asked you for advice, was when I was like eight months postpartum and my beautiful son was like, still waking up every 2 to 3 hours throughout the night. And of course, that got me into a big state of Adrenal dysfunction. And I had flatlined adrenals, but yet I was like, I can’t do any of the things I used to recommend because I can’t take, like, hormones. I was breastfeeding. I even tried progesterone, which is usually safe, but it suppressed my milk supply. And then I was like, okay. I used to recommend for people to sleep like 12 hours a night, but clearly with my eight month old, I can’t do that. I had just started drinking coffee on a regular basis, and I usually would recommend for people to quit caffeine to heal their adrenals. And I’m like, well, I can’t do that. Nothing from my old toolbox is available to me right now.

So I had to create a brand new set of tools and the things that I came up with, and they worked within three to four weeks, which is amazing because the previous things used to take were much more intense and they would take a much longer time, sometimes three, six, nine to twelve months, to really work. And I was like, okay, I’m going to just really enjoy this process and have my body supported when my son is older and he’s flipping through the night. I need to get the word out about this, right?

Katie: Yeah. And I definitely want to delve into the stress response. And especially, I think, for Moms, this is a huge issue. And we don’t have, like you said, the ability to just remove some of these factors that are causing stress. These are variables we have to work with within our lives. But before we get into solutions, I also want to touch on dispelling a myth, because I have heard it said by certainly conventional doctors and certainly even some other practitioners that adrenal fatigue is a myth and that that’s not a real thing. And I know you have an answer to this as well, but I want to make sure we call it out before we move on to solutions.

Dr. Izabella: That’s such a great thing. I kind of, like, scratch my head because some of the functional doctors will say adrenal fatigue doesn’t exist, and then they’ll call it Hpa, axis dysfunction. Right? Here’s the thing. Adrenal fatigue is not a disease, quote unquote, right? It’s a cluster of symptoms. This is what happens when the body is stuck in chronic stress mode. It gets stuck in fight or flight. It gets stuck in survival mode, and it’s like, fueling the stress response. Instead of focusing on resting, digesting and building our body back up, our body is being broken down at the time.

Now, I think the kind of history of the controversy where it comes from is the person that initially coined the term Adrenal fatigue was a naturopathic doctor named Dr. James Wilson. And I love his book. It was incredibly helpful, had some fabulous advice about adrenal fatigue. But his theory of what was causing it was essentially that the adrenals were weak or unable to produce hormones. And what we’ve learned since the time that his brilliant work came out is that’s not actually what’s happening unless you have a condition called Addison’s, which is a rare autoimmune condition that impacts the adrenal glands and they get damaged and they cannot produce hormones when they’re damaged. But what’s actually happening is a communication breakdown between our brain and between our adrenal glands. And so the adrenal glands are capable of producing hormones when there’s adrenal dysfunction. They just don’t.

And so a lot of times it has to do with certain receptors being overwhelmed or overstimulated for a prolonged period of time where we need to let the body know that we’re not under stress and we don’t need to make these adaptations. So essentially I feel like it’s like nomenclature and naming and the correct term would be adrenal dysfunction or Hpxis dysfunction. But adrenal fatigue is a great way just to describe what’s going on in.

Katie: The body that makes sense. And I feel like it’s a good foundational piece now to move into the conversation of solutions. And since most of the people listening are moms, I would love to start by talking about the things you mentioned that were unavailable in your own toolkit as a mom at a certain time. Because I know that is sort of the common advice, is certain hormones can help and go off caffeine, which also as a mom, I do cycle it, but I’m not willing to entirely give up caffeine. So walk us through your process and what some of those solutions that emerged looked like that maybe differed from a lot of the conventional advice that’s often given.

Dr. Izabella: Yes, and I was very guilty of that as a practitioner. Before I had kids, I was like, well, just sleep more, just hire a babysitter, right? And then I had my own son and I was like, oh yeah, that was terrible advice. You can’t tell that stuff to a new mom. But I really focused on, we get stuck in this fight or flight mode because our body is sensing that we’re under stress, right? And so if we get enough of these stress signals that’s what the body perceives is, hey, this is a stressful time, we’re in a famine, we’re in a war, we’re sleep deprived, we don’t have enough food, and we need to go into survival mode.

And so I figured about what are some safety signals we could send the body, right. To really shift the body’s perception of what current state that we’re in. Part of that is going to be reestablishing some of the minerals and some of the nutrients that are going to be lost when you are sleep deprived and when you are under a lot of stress. Right. And so definitely being a new mom is like a big testing ground for that. So if we’re sleep deprived, we’re probably going to be deficient in B vitamins, vitamin C, magnesium and electrolytes. That’s kind of a starting point for most people is making sure you get enough of those into your system. And if you have the time maybe doing an Epsom salt bath, right, sometimes that can be more restorative than trying to sleep. When the baby’s sleeping is making sure you have enough of these minerals on board so that when you actually do sleep, your sleep is more restorative.

I have an Oura ring and it can track the amount of restorative sleep you get per night. And that’s tied to our DHEA levels. And when we don’t have enough DHEA on board, typically that happens when we get older and also when we’re sleep deprived and magnesium deprived, then our restorative sleep is going to go down. So I’ve been able to see if I take an Epsom salt bath, I’ll get 3 hours of restorative sleep a night versus maybe 35 to 40 minutes if I don’t take an Epsom salt bath. And that’s just one of the things that can be hugely helpful for a mom. If you’re having even things like nursing aversion or just being overwhelmed and sleep deprived, getting in an Epsom salt bath can be life changing.

Katie: Yeah, I think that what you just touched on is such a pivotal mindset shift for a lot of people. And something I realized as well, that I needed to shift in my mindset after years of from having a thyroid condition, having weight gain, and then years of dieting trying to undo that weight gain, I realized I had been undernourishing my body accidentally and inadvertently for a long time. And so I had to shift my mindset into not thinking about calories or macros, but thinking about for the food I am going to eat in a given day. How do I make it the most nutrient dense possible? And make sure I’m getting the widest variety of micronutrients and electrolytes and fat soluble vitamins to give my body the feeling that it was safe.

And I also, side by side, did a lot of emotional and mental work as well to address some of those things that were sources of chronic stress that I had been willing to ignore for a lot of years. And you mentioned earlier the chronic stress response and I would love to maybe touch on some other ways we can unpattern this chronic stress response because I think this is a big issue for a lot of moms. And like we’ve already talked about, we can’t just remove sources of stress always in our life. So what are some ways that we can help our body in that state of chronic stress response?

Dr. Izabella: So definitely, like you said, super nourishing yourself, making sure that we’re not skipping meals in the morning, making sure that we’re utilizing nutrient dense foods. Oftentimes people don’t eat enough protein and fat they think they’re eating enough, but they’re generally not going to be eating enough of that throughout the day. And that’s going to be really life changing for a lot of people because they’re not going to have the blood sugar swings that’s going to give them more energy, that’s going to give them just really help to balance out their cortisol levels. You’re going to have much more refreshing sleep when you do get that sleep.

And so I focus a lot on nutrition safety signals like the nutrient dense foods, eating blood sugar balance, taking some nutrients to really support your stress response. But there’s also a whole nother component of the things that you do in your life that have nothing to do with nutrition that are going to be contributing to our stress response.

Part of that is shifting your mindset, right? And so really focusing on treating yourself the way that you would treat your sweet child. If you’re having a tough day, a lot of us can say some pretty mean things to ourselves, right, if we’re like, oh, I failed at this, I didn’t do a good job here, why can’t I do this better? But just really shifting the way that we talk to ourselves can be a really great starting point and giving ourselves a little bit of space, a little bit more empathy than we’re used to, that can be a really powerful and underappreciated safety signal for the body.

We can go down a little bit deeper. I have a little image in the book that’s like you can do all the positive affirmations in the world, but if there’s like a hole in your fish tank and you’re only putting a band aid on it, then you’re not really getting to the root cause and getting deeper. And so for a lot of people, it may also focus on dealing with trauma. Some of us have childhood trauma that we may not remember at all. Some of us might have very recent trauma that is very present in our day to day life and how we respond to things. And it’s kind of like this huge lump of potatoes sitting on our back and weighing us down and that can be a really real source of fatigue and a really big source of being stuck in that stress response. We’re breaking ourselves apart rather than putting ourselves back together.

Katie: Yeah, absolutely. I’ve talked about it some before, but that was a big factor for me that I was ignoring for a lot of years because I thought I had just compartmentalized and dealt with the emotional side. And it turns out I had just basically ignored it and shut it down and sort of isolated it, built like a mental cyst around it and decided not to deal with it. But it was sort of one of those open loops that was causing chronic stress that I didn’t realize and undoing that was a whole process of putting down the potatoes kind of as the analogy you used. And I didn’t realize until I did that how profoundly that was affecting my physical health.

And so I think especially for a lot of women, this seems like a big factor and a tough one to approach, but also a very valuable one to approach, especially for us as moms, we want to be able to set that example and approach that for the sake of our kids. Are there any other tools when it comes to safety signals for the body? Because I think this is a huge, really important key that is often not talked about enough in the health world.

Dr. Izabella: Some of the things that I really like to focus on are just really having a good source of bright lights and spending time in nature. When we spend time in nature, that’s a huge safety signal for the body. Most people, unless you’re like in the desert sweating, right, and super uncomfortable, most people will say that they feel better just spending time in nature. Whether that’s going to a beach, going on a hike somewhere, going by a little bit of a lake or going into the woods even just stepping outside first thing in the morning and just getting some sunshine into your eyes. That can be game changing for how much energy we have throughout the day, how calm we feel and how well we even sleep in the nighttime just with stuff that happens before 11 a.m..

I know some moms love to go on those early morning stroller walks. I was like, I’m going to sit outside with my baby and drink my coffee. There’s ways to get that energy in. Or we would go to a little bit of a lake and just kind of enjoy your time outdoors. We spend so much time indoors and that can be kind of stressful for our system with all of the artificial lights that we’re exposed to. Then our body can get confused because it doesn’t know if it’s like, is it time to have energy? Is it time to sleep? And it’s interesting. I used to work with people with some really rare disorders and I had worked with some clients that who were blind from birth and the toughest thing for them was trying to tune into the circadian rhythm because their retinas were not able to pick up on the light sensations. And so a big part of that was making sure that they were on a melatonin supplement. But most of us, if we really tune into the day’s rhythm, we may not need a melatonin supplement. That’s kind of a really big changer. And then the other thing I like to talk about is just like adding pleasurable activities to your day to day life.

Katie: Yeah. I’m so glad you brought up the light and nature piece. I think this is one that I’m glad now even in the mainstream conversation so much and we have people like Andrew Huberman doing whole episodes on this, which I love because I know people like you and I have talked about this for years and I think the more people who integrate this, the better. Because in a sense, I kind of say we’re nature deficient in today’s world. We are able to, if we want to, spend our entire lives indoors and never see actual light or nature. And this was a big one for me as well, just making that actual habit of getting morning sunlight and with all the caveats that have been well talked about of making sure you’re actually outdoors, not through a window, because it’s not the same to get that light through a window. And the great thing is it doesn’t have to be an exorbitant amount of time. It can be ten minutes. And I did the same thing, just sipping some tea or coffee while outside with the kids. Ideally, it is amazing how big of a difference that will even make on a lot of people’s lab results.

I saw changes in my cortisol patterns and other hormones because of that cortisol connection, simply from getting more morning sunlight and then also added midday sunlight. And those are free tools that hopefully all of us can figure out a way to access and integrate into our days as a habit.

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It seems like these are issues, thyroid and adrenal issues are on the rise right now. And I hear from a lot of women who are going through this, why do you think we are seeing a rise in this right now? Because it seems like that’s across the board with a lot of chronic diseases, but especially for women with the thyroid and now adrenal side as well.

Dr. Izabella: I have a lot of different theories about this and primarily women tend to be more affected by stress in our environment. There are a lot of studies tying HPA dysfunction that women tend to be impacted more. I mean, just in the last few years, a lot of women have had to take on more responsibilities with childcare and taking care of all of their children’s needs, even like homeschooling and so on and so forth in the last few years. But I feel like we live in this society that creates a perfect storm for having all of these stress signals that are going to be constantly sent to us, whether that’s watching the news and hearing about all the horrific things that are happening somewhere, our bodies are just not used to that kind of level of threat. Right.

Women were so tuned into our environment because we’re always sort of like testing the waters. Is this the best time to become pregnant? Right? We utilize so many of our resources into creating new life that we want to kind of optimize that. And when we’re in a state where there’s a lot of fear in the news, that could be one source of stress. We’re also exposed to more environmental toxins these days. So there’s all these really cool things like botox, right, that make people look really young, but also it’s an actual toxin. And some women will actually have will have a new onset thyroid condition or an exacerbation of thyroid antibodies or some kind of a thyroiditis just from having botox, right? It does cross react with the thyroid gland.

And I feel like we’re just not super aware of what some of these really new and exciting things that we’re introducing to our bodies, whether those are processed foods, I don’t think those things are like, super exciting. I think they’re toxic, right. But we’re constantly exposed to toxins from our food supply, from the things that we’re putting on top of our bodies, and then as well as the kind of stress messaging that we’re also exposed to.

Katie: Yeah, and I’ve heard it talked about that women especially are exposed to a higher level of a lot of those environmental toxins just because of the increased number of personal care products that we use on a daily basis, typically. And so it kind of truly is in everything. But also the good news is there are alternatives that can help you avoid that. So it’s something to be aware of but not afraid of is kind of what I like to say.

You’ve also mentioned a couple of times the sleep component, which we talked about a little bit, is the difficult one for moms. And certainly there’s no magic that I know of to make a newborn sleep through the night. But short of those seasons of life, I’m curious if you have any other tips for improving, especially that restorative deep sleep phase, which seems to be elusive for a lot of people, especially people who have thyroid and adrenal issues.

Dr. Izabella: Definitely. So I have a lot of ideas and a lot of sleep tips. I used to say, just try this. Just get more sleep, right? And then I started to really do some deep dive work onto sleep with certain clients that I wasn’t able to help. And then definitely when I had a newborn, I was like, why don’t they sleep, right? And there’s a lot of factors to consider that could be potential causes.

And I go through I have, like an appendix in the back of the book that talks about various scenarios of if you have X, then maybe consider Y for your sleep issue. But I would say at 80% of the time, for most people, it’s going to be tied to blood sugar imbalances. If you’re waking up around 3:00a.m., making sure that you’re getting enough protein and fat throughout your day can be a really big game changer. Potentially, looking at doing a little bit more carbs at nighttime, playing around with that to see how that affects your sleep can be incredibly helpful.

Looking at whether or not you have something like candida or mold exposure in your body that can actually cause you to wake up throughout the night, no matter how beautiful of a diet that you’re eating. So one of the things I recommend is Sarcomyasis bolardi. It’s a beneficial yeast that supports our stress response in our gut. And it also helps to clear out pathogenic yeasts and mold out of the body. And so for a lot of times this might be it.

Then there’s also some people might have ammonia toxicity that causes them to have frequent night waking. And for that, I also recommend boularity and something called carnitine, as well as magnesium to help clear that out of your body. Typically, if you’re a person that has constipation and you’re not pooping every day, then you’re going to be at risk for having that ammonia toxicity. And so magnesium, having a good bedtime routine, these are all things that can be incredibly helpful for falling asleep and staying asleep. And then if you’re in that new mom sleep deprived mode, like just making sure that you’re supported with the basics of magnesium electrolytes, but also considering things like extra fish oil and choline and thiamine, because these things can get really depleted when we are not sleeping well, and they can actually help with getting more restorative sleep.

Katie: And I would also love to get your opinion sort of maybe a little bit rapid fire on some of the things that are commonly recommended for Adrenal health and for helping the stress response and see what your take on them is. The first being vitamin C or a food based vitamin C, if there’s any facts to that or if it can be beneficial for people who are in that acute response.

Dr. Izabella: I love vitamin C. It can be incredibly helpful. It’s one of the nutrients that gets burned when we have a stress response. So making sure you get enough vitamin C on board, do it. It’s going to help you feel better and it’s also going to boost your immunity. So typically people with adrenal dysfunction, they’re going to be oftentimes catching all kinds of illnesses. So yes, that’s a huge yes.

Katie: And then another one you hear a lot about is salt and electrolytes. And this is when Chris Masterjohn recently on this podcast, made a pretty strong case for how many of us, even separate of thyroid and adrenal dysfunction, might not get enough of these. Even if we think we are, especially if we’re trying to eat a whole food diet, we might actually be getting not nearly enough sodium, for instance, or potassium. So I’m curious your take on salt and electrolytes and how much we need or what a good benchmark would be.

Dr. Izabella: This is a huge one. So this is super important for managing the stress response. The electrolytes have been studied in extreme athletes that are doing really big events like marathons and whatnot, and it helps them with the recovery process. And I’m like, okay, if a person with adrenal fatigue. Everything feels like a marathon to them. Everything seems like an extreme athletic event. And so I found that electrolytes are a huge game changer for many of the women that I work with because they help to balance that stress response.

And typically people with adrenal dysfunction do have these mild electrolyte abnormalities. They might have cravings for chips, like really salty things and just adding electrolytes or adding a little bit of sea salt into your morning routine. And sometimes I’ll recommend getting a glass of water, just putting some sea salt in there and just sipping that up throughout the day. That can be a really tiny thing. That can just be a huge game changer.

Katie: And for the new mom piece as well. I don’t know if there’s any science behind this, but anecdotally it seems like a lot of new moms report having an increase in milk supply when they get the electrolyte piece dialed in. So another reason that that could be beneficial.

You also mentioned protein once and I would love to get some guidance on this because this was at least for me, seemed like a key, is that I was undernourished for so long and I wasn’t eating enough actually. And when I started prioritizing getting enough of certain things, especially protein, and especially in the morning, it seemed like my body felt more safe and actually was able to release weight. And it seems like statistically, maybe women especially still aren’t quite getting enough protein in a lot of cases. But is there anything specific to the adrenals here or is this just maybe a good general health guideline?

Dr. Izabella: It’s all of the above, right? And so I think women typically we’re not eating enough protein throughout our diet. The thing that happens when we’re in a chronic stress response or we have chronic illness, our protein requirements actually go up. What’s happening in that stress response is that our body is actually breaking itself down to use our amino acids to fuel the stress response. And so getting a little bit of extra protein can be helpful. Now, I know people will say like 1 gram/kg or 1 gram/lb. And I do have a reference in my book that talks about if you’re more active and if you’re a bodybuilder, you’re going to need a little bit more, right? Or you might need a little bit less if you’re not super active. But most people are not eating enough protein is what I found. They think they are. But really looking at counting how much you’re getting per day, you generally should be at least in that 1 gram/kg spot for most people, unless they have kidney disease or something that doesn’t allow them to have protein.

Katie: Yeah, I’m glad to get your feedback on that one. And it seems like most people, if you’re wondering if you’re getting enough protein, the answer is likely that you are not. Unless you are actually being intentional and tracking it. And I love that you brought up that when the body is in any kind of repair mode, it actually has an increased need. I think pregnancy also falls into that category. When you’re literally growing a human, you also have an increased need, not just for food, but for protein.

But I remember reading the statistic one time that if you have, for instance, a broken bone, your body in a short period of time after might need as much as three times your normal calories in that repair mode because it’s so intensive. So obviously, hopefully, with adrenal fatigue, people aren’t experiencing quite that level of repair in the body. But since the body is in trying to repair, it makes sense that giving it all the support possible is a good tool. You’ve also mentioned magnesium a couple of times, and I know your stance on this from your work with the thyroid, but maybe just walk us through a strong case for why magnesium can be so beneficial.

Dr. Izabella: Oh, my gosh. Magnesium is definitely one of the nutrients that gets depleted where we’re under stress, and unfortunately, it’s one of the things that’s tricky to get enough of it from food. With thyroid issues, I’ve seen that most people are going to be deficient and even studies showing that the thyroid gland can normalize after many years of using magnesium. It’s not going to be overnight, but just within two to three years of using magnesium, a damaged thyroid can normalize on an ultrasound.

Now, people that benefit from magnesium, it’s like, pretty much everybody, right? But if you have joint pains, if you have anxiety, if you have trouble sleeping, if you have menstrual cramps, if you’re just feeling, like, really worn down, if you have sensitivity to noise, just getting some magnesium into your daily routine can be a game changer. I personally love utilizing for women that are constipated something like magnesium citrate, it helps to promote bowel movements. Other women that maybe don’t need that might benefit from magnesium glycinate with a caveat that you do need to take, it usually with B-6 or P, five P. Otherwise it can cause more anxiety for some people because it gets over converted into glutamate, which is an activating neurotransmitter.

And then for many people, I just really love the Epsom salt bath because it tends to have that topical absorption, and then it can support healthy Dhea levels, which tend to get depleted as we age and as we get sleep deprived and stressed.

Katie: And I also know a little bit of a deviation, but that you as a mom now are probably also very invested in your son’s health and making sure he has a good foundation in all of these areas as well. And we’ve been speaking a lot to adults, especially adults who may already have an existing deficiency or issue going on in one of these areas. But I’m curious, as a mom, what are some of the things that you do for your son and to make sure that he has a great foundation here. So hopefully the goal always with our kids is that they don’t have to undo the damage. Maybe we can get them to adulthood without the damage.

Dr. Izabella: So definitely I would say he’s an angel unless he’s tired or hungry. So I try to make sure that he eats protein and fat, like with every meal. For snacks, I won’t just do things like fruit. I just always try to balance that out with some protein. And I do find if he’s eating on a regular basis and he’s a very busy boy, so he forgets to eat sometimes, right? So I’ll remind him, right? And I’ll be like, make sure, are you getting hangry? You know, how your body feels. And so I do make sure I do that.

I talk to him a lot about tuning into your body and understanding how does this food make me feel? How does this food make me feel? Does my tummy hurt when I eat this food? Does this food make me feel more calm? Does it give me more energy? So we do a lot of that awareness. He does take an Epsom salt bath every now and then. So that is something that we enjoy as part of his routine too. Of course, not as long as my Epsom salt baths and not as much as I put in, I’ll spend like an hour in there and feel great, whereas for him it might be more like 10-15 minutes.

And then a lot of it is I focus on just a lot of the positive affirmations and having him think of himself in a very positive way. Because I feel like a lot of that starts in childhood. So our parents say something to us and then we interpret it with our three year old minds that we are bad or that we should be ashamed of ourselves or something to that effect. So I really try to focus on speaking to him in a very kind way and letting him know that he’s loved and appreciated. So those are kind of the main things that I do with him.

I wish I could get him to take like a whole bunch of supplements and all of those things. So we do fish oils with him and we do a few targeted probiotics and things of that nature. But definitely the foundations of just being kind to himself, loving on himself, making sure that he’s well nourished, and that he actually does sleep really well now. So he does sleep in an all dark room. We make sure we take away sources of blue light so that he sleeps really well.

Katie: I love it. And I know you’ve also already been able to run a lot of people through this protocol and help a lot of people with it. For people listening who maybe are resonating with some of these symptoms and thinking that they might have this issue going on as well. I would love to talk a little bit about the results you’ve already gotten from this program and how long it can take to see results, because I think this is an exciting piece that people might see hope a lot faster than they expect.

Dr. Izabella: Yeah, I was talking to somebody today, and they mentioned a client of theirs that they had adrenal fatigue for seven years. They were like, I’ve just had these issues for seven years. And I was like, wow. I mean, that is a really long time to feel stuck and to feel exhausted and to feel like you’re not really living in your best vitality, like you’re not living your purpose. Because really, when we’re in that adrenal fatigue dysfunction state, it’s like our energy is zapped and our vitality is zapped. But the really exciting thing with this program and why I’m excited to get it out is that we’ve had over 3500 people go through it. And I used to work in outcomes research time, always tracking things, right? And 93% of people will say that improved their brain fog. And then more than 80% of people will say fatigue is improved, their body aches and pains are improved, irritability, anxiety, sleep issues, libido. And all of these changes happen within three to four weeks.

The official plan is four weeks long, but we would have people start off during the first week, and we would do group Q and A’s and just check in with everybody in the groups, and everybody was starting off anxious and overwhelmed and how am I going to do this right? And a lot of questions about, like, I’ve been dealing with this for so long. Is this ever going to get better? And by week three, they’re like, hey, I’m running up and down my stairs. I want to clean my whole house. Like, I’m feeling great. And it just really can happen that quickly within three to four weeks.

And we talked a lot about just some of the fundamental life changes that we do, but a lot of them are just super pleasurable and really enjoyable to include in your daily routine. And we also focus on building up your resilience and supporting your body so that your mitochondria can work better and produce more energy for you and that you’re not so reactive to the everyday stressors. So you have a little bit of more of that resilience where you have an extra few seconds where something annoying happens, and you’re like, you know what? I just now have the strategy to not react to this. I actually have a little bit more. I have an ability to take a deep breath and be like, you know what? This is not about me. This is somebody else’s zoo, somebody else’s monkeys. And it just is amazing that what can happen within just three to four weeks.

Katie: We’ve gotten to cover so much and I’ll make sure we link to the book and the program in the Show Notes. That’s at wellnessmama.fm. For all of you guys listening on the go. I know many moms are. And you have so many resources on your website as well. And I will make sure people can find you and keep learning from you, because I certainly have over the years. And a couple of questions I love to ask toward the end of interviews. The first being if there is a book or a number of books that have profoundly impacted your life and if so, what they are and why.

Dr. Izabella: One of the books that I read on my healing journey was how to stop worrying and start living. It’s like a really old book. Have you read that one at all?

Katie: I haven’t, but I’m adding it to my list.

Dr. Izabella: It’s a great book that just talks about some of the scenarios that can occur where we’re worried about taxes and we’re worried about something happening when our kids are like in 7th grade and they’re in kindergarten right now and a lot of times those worries never materialize and just kind of giving you that perspective. So that would be one that I would highly recommend for anybody that is struggling with anxiety or worried about anything in general or tends to have that worry warp personality.

Katie: I love it, I will link to that in the Show notes as well. And lastly, any parting advice for the listeners. It could be related to adrenal and thyroid health or entirely unrelated life advice.

Dr. Izabella: Some really good life advice is I would highly recommend just taking some time to invest in yourself and investing in your health. Adding some pleasurable activities to your day to day life can be incredibly game changing. I know we have this hustle culture where they say take your hobbies and turn them into a profit or turn them into something that’s going to be a business, right? And I think that’s great in many ways but also we need to be able to have time and space to just do things for the simple pleasure and joy of doing them. So whether that’s like taking a yoga class or doing some art or catching up with girlfriends, just like doing these little things just for the sake of doing them can really shift your body out of that fight or flight mode when we’re constantly over scheduled and have tons of to do list to like, hey, I’m having a good time, I’m relaxing and I can heal. So just doing things like that. I know some people need a permission slip, so here it is.

Katie: I think that’s a perfect place to wrap up and like I said at the beginning, I’m tremendously grateful for your work in the world and for all the resources you provide to help so many people. You have been helpful to my personal journey in so many ways, and I value you as a friend. And thank you so much for your time and for sharing today. This has been awesome.

Dr. Izabella: Thank you so much. Katie, I love your work, and you’ve always been such a wonderful friend, and you’re brilliant, and you’ve taught me so much. So I really, really appreciate you and the work that you’re doing in this world, and it’s been such an honor and pleasure to be here with you.

Katie: Well, thank you. And thanks to all of you for listening and sharing your most valuable resources, your time, your energy and your attention with us today. We’re both so grateful that you did, and I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of The Wellness Mama Podcast.
If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.